X11 support removed from GDM 1:47.0-1

[Joe Doss]

I just updated tonight to the latest updates-testing packages on my 
Fedora 41 Beta Workstation install and I could no longer log into my X11 
session after logging out.

Checking https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=2548720 
it seems that in the latest GDM version bump that X11 support was 
dropped. Downgrading GDM brings back the "GNOME on X11" option in GDM 
and I can log back in just fine with X11.

This is going to cause a lot of problems for users that use Fedora for 
things such as gaming on Linux. Some games do not work well with Wayland 
just yet and have many issues. Screen sharing on things like Zoom have 
had major issues too in the past which will impact people who use Fedora 
as their daily driver at work.

I don't recall seeing that X11 support was going to be dropped from GDM 
at all in 
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/WaylandOnlyGNOMEWorkstationMedia 
or any of the other Change requests. The 
WaylandOnlyGNOMEWorkstationMedia change stated that users could install 
the packages if they wanted to still run X11 over Wayland.

Dropping X11 support entirely from GDM change prevents anyone from using 
X11 on Fedora 41. Can support for X11 be added back into GDM 47.0 and 
can we have a better communication and rollout plan to be put in place 
for a future Fedora release before dropping support for X11 entirely?

I really feel we should not be preventing users from having the choice 
to run X11 over Wayland when upgrading to Fedora 41 and this change is 
going to cause a lot headaches for people when they upgrade.

Thanks,
Joe

[Sandro]

On 20-10-2024 07:52, Joe Doss wrote:
> Checking https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=2548720 
> it seems that in the latest GDM version bump that X11 support was 
> dropped. Downgrading GDM brings back the "GNOME on X11" option in GDM 
> and I can log back in just fine with X11.
>
> This is going to cause a lot of problems for users that use Fedora for 
> things such as gaming on Linux. Some games do not work well with Wayland 
> just yet and have many issues. Screen sharing on things like Zoom have 
> had major issues too in the past which will impact people who use Fedora 
> as their daily driver at work.
>
> I don't recall seeing that X11 support was going to be dropped from GDM 
> at all in 
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/WaylandOnlyGNOMEWorkstationMedia 
> or any of the other Change requests. The 
> WaylandOnlyGNOMEWorkstationMedia change stated that users could install 
> the packages if they wanted to still run X11 over Wayland.

To start with, leave a comment and negative karma on the pending update 
in Bodhi [1], preventing it from progressing to stable eventually.

You should also go ahead and file a bug against gdm. It's too late in 
the release cycle for such a change to land in F41 by any means. Even if 
that would have been part of a change proposal it should have been ready 
and testable before beta freeze.

Once you have that bug, nominate it as a blocker issue [2]. Though, 
technically it won't be part of the release since we are in freeze, it 
will land as a zero day. And then, as you noted, all hell will break 
loose with people no longer being able to log in to their systems.

[1] https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2024-8c82e02afe
[2] https://qa.fedoraproject.org/blockerbugs/

-- Sandro

[Peter Robinson]

On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 at 06:52, Joe Doss  wrote:
> I just updated tonight to the latest updates-testing packages on my
> Fedora 41 Beta Workstation install and I could no longer log into my X11
> session after logging out.
>
> Checking https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=2548720
> it seems that in the latest GDM version bump that X11 support was
> dropped. Downgrading GDM brings back the "GNOME on X11" option in GDM
> and I can log back in just fine with X11.
>
> This is going to cause a lot of problems for users that use Fedora for
> things such as gaming on Linux. Some games do not work well with Wayland
> just yet and have many issues. Screen sharing on things like Zoom have
> had major issues too in the past which will impact people who use Fedora
> as their daily driver at work.

Zoom and most commercial video conf platforms have been fine on
Wayland for some time. I've used Zoom/Google Meet/MS Teams for a least
a year or two without wayland issues.
> I don't recall seeing that X11 support was going to be dropped from GDM
> at all in
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/WaylandOnlyGNOMEWorkstationMedia
> or any of the other Change requests. The
> WaylandOnlyGNOMEWorkstationMedia change stated that users could install
> the packages if they wanted to still run X11 over Wayland.
>
> Dropping X11 support entirely from GDM change prevents anyone from using
> X11 on Fedora 41. Can support for X11 be added back into GDM 47.0 and
> can we have a better communication and rollout plan to be put in place
> for a future Fedora release before dropping support for X11 entirely?
>
> I really feel we should not be preventing users from having the choice
> to run X11 over Wayland when upgrading to Fedora 41 and this change is
> going to cause a lot headaches for people when they upgrade.
>
> Thanks,
> Joe
>
> --
> Joe Doss
> [e-mail]
>
> --
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[Joe Doss]

On 10/20/24 4:19 AM, Peter Robinson wrote:
> Zoom and most commercial video conf platforms have been fine on
> Wayland for some time. I've used Zoom/Google Meet/MS Teams for a least
> a year or two without wayland issues.

Unfortunately sharing part of my screen doesn't work in Wayland which is 
kind of a game breaker for me at work. I have an ultrawide monitor and 
doing demos at work sometimes requires me to share part of my desktop 
and not the whole thing.

Joe

[Vít Ondruch]

Dne 20. 10. 24 v 17:59 Joe Doss napsal(a):
> On 10/20/24 4:19 AM, Peter Robinson wrote:
> > Zoom and most commercial video conf platforms have been fine on
> > Wayland for some time. I've used Zoom/Google Meet/MS Teams for a least
> > a year or two without wayland issues.
>
> Unfortunately sharing part of my screen doesn't work

You can share window if that helps.

Vít
> in Wayland which is kind of a game breaker for me at work. I have an 
> ultrawide monitor and doing demos at work sometimes requires me to 
> share part of my desktop and not the whole thing.
>
> Joe

[Ray Strode]

Hi,

On Sun, Oct 20, 2024, 1:52 AM Joe Doss  wrote:
> This is going to cause a lot of problems for users that use Fedora for
> things such as gaming on Linux. Some games do not work well with Wayland
> just yet and have many issues. Screen sharing on things like Zoom have
> had major issues too in the past which will impact people who use Fedora
> as their daily driver at work.

I'll change the update to reenable X11 support.

Ray

[Ray Strode]

Hi again,

On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 8:07 AM Ray Strode  wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 20, 2024, 1:52 AM Joe Doss  wrote:
> > This is going to cause a lot of problems for users that use Fedora for
> > things such as gaming on Linux. Some games do not work well with Wayland
> > just yet and have many issues. Screen sharing on things like Zoom have
> > had major issues too in the past which will impact people who use Fedora
> > as their daily driver at work.
>
> I'll change the update to reenable X11 support.

This should be re-enabled now:

https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2024-7638f575f3

Sorry about that, I confused myself on Friday.

--Ray

[old sixpack13]

Ray Strode wrote:
> Hi again,

...
> > as their daily driver at work.
> > I'll change the update to reenable X11 support.
> > This should be re-enabled now:

some notes after the update:
- gdm update needs a reboot 
- after that the option to choose Xorg is there again, but trying to login with Xorg just throws me back to the login screen; wayland is fine.

anyone too ?

[Mateus Rodrigues Costa]

Weird, I thought the GNOME session login option was in
gnome-session-xsession an not in gdm?

Wouldn't
> Builds GDM without Xorg support instead of just relying on the udev rule to drop Xorg support.

Only matter about whether GDM itself runs on Wayland or Xorg? (I
remember there were talks about it being Wayland-only at some point,
but I don't know if it breaks running a user session with Xorg)

In any case, since Fedora devs already made their mind on migrating to
Wayland-only a while back, wouldn't it make the most sense to wait a
bit more on Fedora 40 until Wayland becomes better?

Em dom., 20 de out. de 2024 às 11:03, old sixpack13
 escreveu:
> Ray Strode wrote:
> > Hi again,
>
> ...
> > > as their daily driver at work.
> > > I'll change the update to reenable X11 support.
> > > This should be re-enabled now:
>
> some notes after the update:
> gdm update needs a reboot
> after that the option to choose Xorg is there again, but trying to login with Xorg just throws me back to the login screen; wayland is fine.
> anyone too ?
>
> devel mailing list -- [e-mail]
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[Neal Gompa]

On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 10:16 AM Mateus Rodrigues Costa
 wrote:
> Weird, I thought the GNOME session login option was in
> gnome-session-xsession an not in gdm?
>
> Wouldn't
> > Builds GDM without Xorg support instead of just relying on the udev rule to drop Xorg support.
>
> Only matter about whether GDM itself runs on Wayland or Xorg? (I
> remember there were talks about it being Wayland-only at some point,
> but I don't know if it breaks running a user session with Xorg)

That's what I would expect, yes.
> In any case, since Fedora devs already made their mind on migrating to
> Wayland-only a while back, wouldn't it make the most sense to wait a
> bit more on Fedora 40 until Wayland becomes better?

We're talking about Fedora 41, not Fedora 40.

[Mateus Rodrigues Costa]

Em dom., 20 de out. de 2024 às 11:18, Neal Gompa  escreveu:
> On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 10:16 AM Mateus Rodrigues Costa
>  wrote:
> > Weird, I thought the GNOME session login option was in
> > gnome-session-xsession an not in gdm?
> >
> > Wouldn't
> > > Builds GDM without Xorg support instead of just relying on the udev rule to drop Xorg support.
> >
> > Only matter about whether GDM itself runs on Wayland or Xorg? (I
> > remember there were talks about it being Wayland-only at some point,
> > but I don't know if it breaks running a user session with Xorg)
>
> That's what I would expect, yes.
> > In any case, since Fedora devs already made their mind on migrating to
> > Wayland-only a while back, wouldn't it make the most sense to wait a
> > bit more on Fedora 40 until Wayland becomes better?
>
> We're talking about Fedora 41, not Fedora 40.

Yeah, I know, I am on Fedora 41 Beta and have been following the
Changeset and stuff.
What I meant was more in the sense "Fedora 41 is going all in into
Wayland, if that doesn't work for you maybe it would be better to stay
in Fedora 40 until it gets EoL or the Wayland experience improves so
you can migrate to a newer Fedora release?"
I also think moving to a more conservative distro is also a
possibility depending on the user needs.
> --
> 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!
> --
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[Ray Strode]

Hi,

On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 10:03 AM old sixpack13  wrote:
> after that the option to choose Xorg is there again, but trying to login
>
> with Xorg just throws me back to the login screen; wayland is fine.
>
> anyone too ?

I'll do a fresh install of F41 now and try to reproduce.

--Ray

[Ray Strode]

Hi,

On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 11:04 AM Ray Strode  wrote:
> I'll do a fresh install of F41 now and try to reproduce.

So I did the fresh install and reproduced. It was a missing symlink. I'm
doing a fresh build now and will update the update shortly.

--Ray

[Ray Strode]

Hi again,

On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 11:34 AM Ray Strode  wrote:
> > On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 11:04 AM Ray Strode  wrote:
> > > On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 10:03 AM old sixpack13  wrote:
> > > after that the option to choose Xorg is there again, but trying to login with Xorg just throws me back to the login screen; wayland is fine.
> >
> > I'll do a fresh install of F41 now and try to reproduce.
>
> So I did the fresh install and reproduced. It was a missing symlink. I'm doing a fresh build now and will update the update shortly.

give https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2024-e6bddb899d a
whirl if you don't mind.

--Ray

[old sixpack13]

Ray Strode wrote:
...
> > give https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2024-e6bddb899d a
>
> whirl if you don't mind.
> --Ray

Thanks Ray it's now working again !

[Joe Doss]

On 10/20/24 8:16 AM, Ray Strode wrote:
> This should be re-enabled now:
>
> https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2024-7638f575f3 <https:// 
> bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2024-7638f575f3>

Thanks for jumping on this issue so quickly Ray!
> Sorry about that, I confused myself on Friday.

No worries. I get confused on Fridays most of the weeks as well. 
Sometimes it happens on Thursdays too! :)

Joe

[Sérgio Basto]

On Sun, 2024-10-20 at 08:07 -0400, Ray Strode wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Sun, Oct 20, 2024, 1:52 AM Joe Doss  wrote:
> > This is going to cause a lot of problems for users that use Fedora
> > for 
> > things such as gaming on Linux. Some games do not work well with
> > Wayland 
> > just yet and have many issues. Screen sharing on things like Zoom
> > have 
> > had major issues too in the past which will impact people who use
> > Fedora 
> > as their daily driver at work.
>
> I'll change the update to reenable X11 support.

removing X11 support just to force people to test Wayland is a decision
that will have my strong opposition
> Ray