some artwork needs to be replaced...?

[Thomas M Steenholdt]

Hi all...

before going any further, let me just say that I'm not out to start a 
flame war or put hard working people down. I want to bring this forward 
to ensure everybody's favorite distro is appealing as it deserves "out 
of the box".


Am I alone in thinking that some of the icons and the default mouse 
cursors appearing in rawhide could really use a redesign or should just 
be replaced with something else?

Perhaps these are only temporarily, which i really hope, but just in 
case they are not, i wanted to see if perhaps it's just me.

The two main things that have come to my attention (mainly because it 
pretty much hits you on login) are the new fedora logos and the new 
default mouse cursor theme.


This is my opinion on the mouse cursor theme:

** the default mouse cursor theme should be neutral (no colors, subtle 
animation), good looking and functional.

Although used by some other distributions, Jimmac's jimmac0 (if that's 
indeed the right name) mouse cursors makes for a very nice choice for 
the default mouse cursor theme.


This is my opinion regarding the icons

** all the icons appearing on the default desktop, should be 
informational, good looking and in a consistent design - Just like all 
of the icons in the bluecurve theme.

The new fedora-logo does not fit in with the rest and IMHO should be 
either reconsidered or redesigned.


I hope I'm not the only one feeling like this.
And I hope we will be able to have all this sorted out before FC5 is 
released.

Thanks

/Thomas

[Hans de Goede]

+1

Thomas M Steenholdt wrote:
>  Hi all...
>  
>  before going any further, let me just say that I'm not out to start a 
>  flame war or put hard working people down. I want to bring this forward 
>  to ensure everybody's favorite distro is appealing as it deserves "out 
>  of the box".
>  
>  
>  Am I alone in thinking that some of the icons and the default mouse 
>  cursors appearing in rawhide could really use a redesign or should just 
>  be replaced with something else?
>  
>  Perhaps these are only temporarily, which i really hope, but just in 
>  case they are not, i wanted to see if perhaps it's just me.
>  
>  The two main things that have come to my attention (mainly because it 
>  pretty much hits you on login) are the new fedora logos and the new 
>  default mouse cursor theme.
>  
>  
>  This is my opinion on the mouse cursor theme:
>  
>  ** the default mouse cursor theme should be neutral (no colors, subtle 
>  animation), good looking and functional.
>  
>  Although used by some other distributions, Jimmac's jimmac0 (if that's 
>  indeed the right name) mouse cursors makes for a very nice choice for 
>  the default mouse cursor theme.
>  
>  
>  This is my opinion regarding the icons
>  
>  ** all the icons appearing on the default desktop, should be 
>  informational, good looking and in a consistent design - Just like all 
>  of the icons in the bluecurve theme.
>  
>  The new fedora-logo does not fit in with the rest and IMHO should be 
>  either reconsidered or redesigned.
>  
>  
>  I hope I'm not the only one feeling like this.
>  And I hope we will be able to have all this sorted out before FC5 is 
>  released.
>  
>  Thanks
>  
>  /Thomas
>

[Jef Spaleta]

On 11/18/05, Hans de Goede <j.w.r.degoede(a)hhs.nl&gt; wrote:
>  +1 
-5

-jef"I have an opinion! And its different! News at 11!"spaleta

[Thomas M Steenholdt]

Jeff Spaleta wrote:
>  On 11/18/05, Hans de Goede <j.w.r.degoede(a)hhs.nl&gt; wrote:
> > +1
>  
>  -5
>  
>  -jef"I have an opinion! And its different! News at 11!"spaleta
>   
would you care to explain your opinion?

what makes the current rawhide versions of these things better that what 
we had in FC4 or something else?

/Thomas

[Rahul Sundaram]

Hi

>  would you care to explain your opinion?
>
>  what makes the current rawhide versions of these things better that 
>  what we had in FC4 or something else? 
Artwork is really subjective taste. I am not sure convincing everyone to 
use what you prefer as default would work. If you are into design, 
submit suggestions or mockups

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraArt

regards
Rahul

[Jef Spaleta]

On 11/18/05, Thomas M Steenholdt <tmus(a)tmus.dk&gt; wrote:
>  would you care to explain your opinion? 
I find them functional "enough" and good looking "enough" (except for
some minor defects that I have already filed bugs for but do not
require the cursors to be replaced with a different concept). I don't
see why colorless mouse icons are automatically better than colored
icons. We don't use the high constrast black&white menu/desktop icons
by default.  I didn't read anything in your opinion that was could not
be summarized as "personal taste". And with all matters of personal
taste...opinions differ and there will be no right answer.

And i certainly do not think that the red hat logo on the desktop that
we have enjoyed for so long, is any more appropriate or even more
informational than a separate fedora project logo. I think its very
important and very informational to be able to distinguish which
distribution you are using at a glance at the default desktop even
with windows open obscuring the wallpaper. The fedora logo on the
gnome panel finally makes a clearly visible distinction that someone
is on a fedora desktop and not on a rhel system.  As a matter of
function and informative content.. any fedora specific logo is a
change for the better.  And there is absolutely no point in arguing
about the style of the logo.. matters of style have no right answer
and the style of the logo isn't going to change.

-jef"suckered into yet another logo thread.... I should be forcible
removed from the mailinglists to prevent responding to another logo
thread"spaleta

[Brian Long (brilong)]

On Fri, 2005-11-18 at 10:10 -0500, Jeff Spaleta wrote:


How about a left-handed mouse theme?  Does one exist that I don't know
about?  Logitech includes a decent one in their Mouseware program for
Windoze.  I use left-handed mouse on various hosts and it sure would be
nice to have the arrow pointing from bottom-left to upper-right  :)

/Brian/
-- 
       Brian Long                      |         |           |
       IT Data Center Systems          |       .|||.       .|||.
       Cisco Linux Developer           |   ..:|||||||:...:|||||||:..
       Phone: [phone]           |   C i s c o   S y s t e m s

[Rahul Sundaram]

Brian Long wrote:

> On Fri, 2005-11-18 at 10:10 -0500, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
>
>
> How about a left-handed mouse theme?  Does one exist that I don't know
> about?  Logitech includes a decent one in their Mouseware program for
> Windoze.  I use left-handed mouse on various hosts and it sure would be
> nice to have the arrow pointing from bottom-left to upper-right  :)
>   
>  
Filed a enhancement request. 
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=173603

Thanks,

regards
Rahul

[Paul W. Frields]

On Fri, 2005-11-18 at 10:10 -0500, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
>  And i certainly do not think that the red hat logo on the desktop
> that
>  we have enjoyed for so long, is any more appropriate or even more
>  informational than a separate fedora project logo. I think its very
>  important and very informational to be able to distinguish which
>  distribution you are using at a glance at the default desktop even
>  with windows open obscuring the wallpaper. The fedora logo on the
>  gnome panel finally makes a clearly visible distinction that someone
>  is on a fedora desktop and not on a rhel system.  As a matter of
>  function and informative content.. any fedora specific logo is a
>  change for the better.  And there is absolutely no point in arguing
>  about the style of the logo.. matters of style have no right answer
>  and the style of the logo isn't going to change. 
Agreed, FWIW, and I for one would like to see the new logo appear in the
FC4 branch (i.e. an update) to get everyone used to it... or at least
get the inevitable deluge of complaints out of the way to make way for
more appropriate traffic subsequent to the FC5 test releases.

-- 
Paul W. Frields, RHCE                          http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/

[Thomas M Steenholdt]

Paul W. Frields wrote:
>  Agreed, FWIW, and I for one would like to see the new logo appear in
> the
>  FC4 branch (i.e. an update) to get everyone used to it... or at least
>  get the inevitable deluge of complaints out of the way to make way for
>  more appropriate traffic subsequent to the FC5 test releases. 
Let's make Fedora stand out with a new logo, but let us at least have a 
few to choose from and then a contest!

/Thomas

[Thomas M Steenholdt]

Jeff Spaleta wrote:
>  On 11/18/05, Thomas M Steenholdt <tmus(a)tmus.dk&gt; wrote:
>  
>  I find them functional "enough" and good looking "enough" (except
> for
>  some minor defects that I have already filed bugs for but do not
>  require the cursors to be replaced with a different concept). I don't
>  see why colorless mouse icons are automatically better than colored 
well, first of all, the chance that a b/w mouse cursor theme will blend 
well with your background of choice is better that with the blue cursors.
I realize that I can just change it, but that's slightly beside my point 
that we should make sure Fedora looks as appealing as possible by default.

>  opinions differ and there will be no right answer. 
Very true! But that should still mean that we should aim at having 
something that most people would like by default - How about a fedora 
logo competition! That would be a fair way to find the best logo 
suitable for fedora.

>  And i certainly do not think that the red hat logo on the desktop
> that
>  we have enjoyed for so long, is any more appropriate or even more
>  informational than a separate fedora project logo. I think its very
>  important and very informational to be able to distinguish which
>  distribution you are using at a glance at the default desktop even
>  with windows open obscuring the wallpaper. The fedora logo on the
>  gnome panel finally makes a clearly visible distinction that someone
>  is on a fedora desktop and not on a rhel system.  As a matter of
>  function and informative content.. any fedora specific logo is a
>  change for the better.  And there is absolutely no point in arguing
>  about the style of the logo.. matters of style have no right answer
>  and the style of the logo isn't going to change. 
I am all for Fedora having a distict logo. I'm also for Fedora looking 
as appealing as possible by default. I believe that the logo should have 
the same high-quality look that the rest of the default icons have.

And remember - I'm not interested in just having things my-way(tm) - 
Thats not the point of this thread.

/Thomas

[Rahul Sundaram]

Hi

>  Very true! But that should still mean that we should aim at having 
>  something that most people would like by default - How about a fedora 
>  logo competition! That would be a fair way to find the best logo 
>  suitable for fedora. 
see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/LogoIdeas.  Several logos 
were proposed. Discussion has been going on from June 2005 onwards in 
fedora-marketing list. Updates has been provided several times in Fedora 
News. Discussions have been going on in Fedora Forum. Posts in Fedora 
people blogs etc.

regards
Rahul

[Paul W. Frields]

On Fri, 2005-11-18 at 21:13 +0100, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote:
>  Jeff Spaleta wrote:
>  > opinions differ and there will be no right answer.
>  
>  Very true! But that should still mean that we should aim at having 
>  something that most people would like by default - How about a fedora 
>  logo competition! That would be a fair way to find the best logo 
>  suitable for fedora. 
Don't do it, Jeff!  Back away from the keyboard...  :-D

-- 
Paul W. Frields, RHCE                          http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/

[Thomas M Steenholdt]

Paul W. Frields wrote:
>  On Fri, 2005-11-18 at 21:13 +0100, Thomas M Steenholdt wrote:
> > Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> >> opinions differ and there will be no right answer.
> > Very true! But that should still mean that we should aim at having 
> > something that most people would like by default - How about a fedora 
> > logo competition! That would be a fair way to find the best logo 
> > suitable for fedora.
>  
>  Don't do it, Jeff!  Back away from the keyboard...  :-D
>  
>   
Yeah, I realized several ideas has been processed and I should keep up, 
sorry about that!

/Thomas

[Thomas M Steenholdt]

For anyone interested, here's the story of the logo!

http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/index.php

...and let's make a few things clear.

- I love the idea of fedora having it's own logo.
- I think the logo in question has all the right parts, all the elements 
are just right.

still, IMHO it's the actual logo/wordmark does not look good enough in 
my opinion.

But hey, if it's just me, I can replace it!

/Thomas

[Jef Spaleta]

On 11/18/05, Thomas M Steenholdt <tmus(a)tmus.dk&gt; wrote:
>  still, IMHO it's the actual logo/wordmark does not look good
> enough in
>  my opinion. 
opinion noted... time to move on.

-jef

[Thomas M Steenholdt]

Jeff Spaleta wrote:
>  On 11/18/05, Thomas M Steenholdt <tmus(a)tmus.dk&gt; wrote:
> > still, IMHO it's the actual logo/wordmark does not look good enough in
> > my opinion.
>  
>  opinion noted... time to move on.
>  
>  -jef
>   
right!

/Thomas

[Thomas M Steenholdt]

Somehow a lot of my previous posts never mad it to the list, but let me 
just recap...

For anyone interested, here's the story of the logo!

http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/index.php

...and let's make a few things clear.

- I love the idea of fedora having it's own logo.
- I think the logo in question has all the right parts, all the elements 
are just right.

Also, I think the logo actually has something going for it - it still 
needs a refresh in a few ways, but it's probably not as far off as i 
thought initially. It could be be made very decent if given a little 
more work.

perhaps something like tinting the whole logo for extras etc. instead of 
only replacing some of the arches in the logo with other colors.

And again, if it's just me, I can replace it!

/Thomas

[Joachim Frieben]

Unlike the previous Red Hat logo, this one does not at all fit
the typical Bluecurve style with distinct outlining and the
simple cartoon-like appearance. It looks rather fuzzy, and the
color hues are barely distinguishable at 24x24 pixels.
The Fedora site "F" icon appearing left to the web site address
in your browser is better suited in this respect. Ask Diana
to fedoradize your draft. The idea of having a distinct logo
is a good one though.

>  - I love the idea of fedora having it's own logo.
>  - I think the logo in question has all the right parts, all the
>  elements  are just right.
>