Dealing with DMCA issues in Tracker

[Brad Smith]

It has been pointed out to me that one problem Tracker may run into is
legal issues with linking directly to the RPMs at livna.org. I've been
thinking about ways to nip potential legal issues in the bud and am
looking at two possible solutions.   

Option 1: It would be relatively easy to have the "download" links for
packages from Extras-NonUs repositories point to a page explaining that
because Tracker is hosted in the US, it cannot provide links to the
software in question. It can then include instructions on adding the
relevant repo to the user's apt/yum sources and installing the package
that way. 

Option 2: Some have suggested hosting Tracker outside of the US. One
problem I see with this is the fact that Tracker relies heavily on
optimizations in mysql 4.x which, because of licensing issues, is still
not easily available on Fedora. In order for Tracker to run well, the
hosting system would have to install Mysql 4.x. Not a big deal, but it
does entail extra work for the system's admin. I don't know if it's
appropriate to ask for such things on this list, but let's just say that
in order for option 2 to to be viable I would first need some
international volunteers =;). 

I'm leaning toward option 1 for now, if only to save myself the trouble
of migrating everything. Opinions and legal details (my knowledge of the
issue basically boils down to "DMCA BAD! ROAR!") are, as always,
appreciated.  

--Brad

[Michael Schwendt]

On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:28:25 -0500, Brad Smith wrote:

>  It has been pointed out to me that one problem Tracker may run into
> is
>  legal issues with linking directly to the RPMs at livna.org. 
Yes, and 'freshrpms' and 'atrpms' and several others. livna.org is not
the
only one that carries software with patenting or licensing concerns.

[Nicolas Mailhot]

Le dim, 28/03/2004 à 22:04 +0200, Michael Schwendt a écrit :

>  On Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:28:25 -0500, Brad Smith wrote:
>  
>  > It has been pointed out to me that one problem Tracker may run into is
>  > legal issues with linking directly to the RPMs at livna.org.
>  
>  Yes, and 'freshrpms' and 'atrpms' and several others. livna.org is not
> the
>  only one that carries software with patenting or licensing concerns. 
jpackage et least should be clean.
Whenever we have a doubt -> non-free + nosrc.rpm only

Regards,

-- 
Nicolas Mailhot

[Derek P. Moore]

> > It has been pointed out to me that one problem Tracker may run
> into is
> > legal issues with linking directly to the RPMs at livna.org.
>
>  Yes, and 'freshrpms' and 'atrpms' and several others. livna.org is not
> the
>  only one that carries software with patenting or licensing concerns. 
Did people learn nothing from Ghandi about mass nonviolent civil disobedience?
If we stop linking, we'll lose by default.  "We have nothing to fear but fear
itself."

Let's not get too scared of a little <a>.

Love,

Derek

[Konstantin Ryabitsev]

Derek P. Moore wrote:

>  Did people learn nothing from Ghandi about mass nonviolent civil 
>  disobedience?
>  If we stop linking, we'll lose by default.  "We have nothing to fear but 
>  fear
>  itself."
>  
>  Let's not get too scared of a little <a>. 
Yes, but Ghandi wasn't a publicly traded corporation with headquarters 
in Raleigh, NC.

Regards,
-- 
Konstantin ("Icon") Ryabitsev
Duke Physics Systems Admin, RHCE
I am looking for a job in Canada!
http://linux.duke.edu/~icon/cajob.ptml

[Brad Smith]

>  Yes, but Ghandi wasn't a publicly traded corporation with
> headquarters 
>  in Raleigh, NC. 
Agreed. However, two things occur to me:


1) There is currently an explicit non-relationship between Tracker and
Red Hat. It's my personal project that I'm doing in my spare time.

2) I believe that under the DMCA any complaint would have to begin with
a formal request for offensive links to be taken down and an opportunity
given to comply. Someone please correct me if that's in error. If this
is so, then at least there's no chance of someone coming along and
saying "You linked to mplayer. Now give us money or get taken to court".
Nonetheless, it follows from 2 that as long as Tracker is hosted in the
US we will at least need a contingency plan in case such a
request-for-removal arrives. Removing download links from livna is one
thing. It's annoying, but then so is the DMCA. Removing download links
from all packages in all third-party repositories is another and would
defeat the point of Tracker's being there to some extent. 

So I'm beginning to lean toward hosting Tracker outside of the US as the
better solution. I've received email from someone in the UK who has
access to a machine, but there are some technical issues he and I will
have to sort out before it's viable. 

In any case I think that's what I'm going to pursue, at least as a
contingency plan, unless someone can come up with a better idea.

--Brad

[Stephen Smoogen]

On Sun, 2004-03-28 at 19:13, Brad Smith wrote:
>  > Yes, but Ghandi wasn't a publicly traded corporation with
> headquarters 
>  > in Raleigh, NC.
>  
>  Agreed. However, two things occur to me:
>  
>  
>  1) There is currently an explicit non-relationship between Tracker and
>  Red Hat. It's my personal project that I'm doing in my spare time.
>  
>  2) I believe that under the DMCA any complaint would have to begin with
>  a formal request for offensive links to be taken down and an opportunity
>  given to comply. Someone please correct me if that's in error. If this
>  is so, then at least there's no chance of someone coming along and
>  saying "You linked to mplayer. Now give us money or get taken to court".
Depends on the court that issues the compliance order. 

>  
>  So I'm beginning to lean toward hosting Tracker outside of the US as the
>  better solution. I've received email from someone in the UK who has
>  access to a machine, but there are some technical issues he and I will
>  have to sort out before it's viable.  
The problem would then come down not to where it is hosted, but by who
is running it/wrote it and 'who' paid for your time/effort {and
depending on the court it doesnt matter if you do it on your own time
and can prove it. I have heard that in some jurisdictions you are
chattel of your company if you are not paid by the hour (but get legal
advice on this).}

1) Get a real lawyer to review your rights, duties, etc.
2) Get an agreement with Red Hat that this is being done as your own,
and you are completely responsible for it.
3) Using your legal advice, maybe move it to another place and turn over
ownership/membership to such  a place.



-- 
Stephen John Smoogen		smoogen(a)lanl.gov
Los Alamos National Lab  CCN-5 Sched 5/40  PH: 4-0645
Ta-03 SM-1498 MailStop B255 DP 10S  Los Alamos, NM 87545
-- You should consider any operational computer to be a security problem --

[Derek P. Moore]

>  Yes, but Ghandi wasn't a publicly traded corporation with
> headquarters
>  in Raleigh, NC. 
Neither is Brad Smith or his useful web-base application.