Planet -> WeMakeFedora.org RMS: what are people saying?

[Daniel Pocock]

It is a strange coincidence that Planet Fedora has stopped syndicating
the blogs of volunteers in the same week that Red Hat stopped[1] funding
the FSF.

I promised I would consider the Fedora Code of Conduct[2] and with that
in mind, I will not speculate that this is any more than a coincidence.

Nonetheless, I was curious what Fedora contributors are writing about
the RMS situation.  In the spirit of free software development, I
created a Fork of Planet Fedora so we can all see if any insights appear
about RMS:

    https://WeMakeFedora.org

Please have a look, share and subscribe.  Please post.

    https://WeMakeFedora.org/rss20.xml

    https://WeMakeFedora.org/atom.xml

Fedora is a trademark of Red Hat.  We can be grateful to Red Hat for
their immense contributions to Fedora, the FSF and free software in
general.  Using Fedora in a domain name creates challenges.  It is not
my intention for WeMakeFedora.org to hijack or impersonate in any way.
I plan to add suitable disclaimers to the site to make that clear.
Trademark law and previous legal judgments make it clear that we can use
the name Fedora to take credit for our contributions to the product.
This site has been created for that purpose in good faith.

In some ways it may help Red Hat.  Trademark owners rarely give formal
endorsement to third-party sites but if the site does not attempt to
impersonate or deceive, they can choose to ignore it.  As a bonus, they
can not be held responsible for what you choose to post there, this may
make their lives easier.

Remember the four Foundations[3];

*Freedom*:
"We are dedicated to free software and *content*."
*content* is important.

*First*:
Some of you have made far bigger contributions to Fedora, but somebody
had to be first to fork Planet in this week.

I though about creating an Uncensored Fedora site.  fedorauncensored.org
is available.  But I didn't want it to look like
https://uncensored.debian.community because in many ways, Fedora does
not behave like Debian.  So I had to choose some other name.
WeMakeFedora.org felt like a good choice.

Regards,

Daniel

1.
https://www.theregister.com/2021/03/26/redhat_fsf_funding_richard_stallman/
2. https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
3. https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 01:07:28AM +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>  
>  It is a strange coincidence that Planet Fedora has stopped syndicating
>  the blogs of volunteers in the same week that Red Hat stopped[1] funding
>  the FSF. 
...snip...

The cron job that updates the planet was stuck. 

I have unstuck it. 

Assuming malice without even asking infrastructure to check things makes
me very sad. 

kevin

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 04:25:17PM -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>  On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 01:07:28AM +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>  > 
>  > It is a strange coincidence that Planet Fedora has stopped syndicating
>  > the blogs of volunteers in the same week that Red Hat stopped[1] funding
>  > the FSF.
>  ...snip...
>  
>  The cron job that updates the planet was stuck. 
>  
>  I have unstuck it. 
>  
>  Assuming malice without even asking infrastructure to check things makes
>  me very sad.  
And actually it's broken by the account system change somehow. 

I've filed:
https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/9799
to track fixing it. 

kevin

[Daniel Pocock]

On 30/03/2021 01:31, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>  On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 04:25:17PM -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 01:07:28AM +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> >>
> >> It is a strange coincidence that Planet Fedora has stopped syndicating
> >> the blogs of volunteers in the same week that Red Hat stopped[1] funding
> >> the FSF.
> > ...snip...
> >
> > The cron job that updates the planet was stuck. 
> >
> > I have unstuck it. 
> >
> > Assuming malice without even asking infrastructure to check things makes
> > me very sad. 
>  
>  And actually it's broken by the account system change somehow. 
>  
>  I've filed:
>  https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/9799
>  to track fixing it. 
>   
As I noted in the original email, "I will not speculate that this is any
more than a coincidence".  I don't want to make either assumptions or
accusations, you do a huge amount of work and everybody here understands
that.

That said, a parallel site could be useful in various ways, technical
and legal.

Regards,

Daniel

[Daniel Pocock]

On 30/03/2021 01:37, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>  
>  
>  On 30/03/2021 01:31, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 04:25:17PM -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> >> On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 01:07:28AM +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> >>>
> >>> It is a strange coincidence that Planet Fedora has stopped syndicating
> >>> the blogs of volunteers in the same week that Red Hat stopped[1] funding
> >>> the FSF.
> >> ...snip...
> >>
> >> The cron job that updates the planet was stuck. 
> >>
> >> I have unstuck it. 
> >>
> >> Assuming malice without even asking infrastructure to check things makes
> >> me very sad. 
> >
> > And actually it's broken by the account system change somehow. 
> >
> > I've filed:
> > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/issue/9799
> > to track fixing it. 
> >
>  
>  As I noted in the original email, "I will not speculate that this is any
>  more than a coincidence".  I don't want to make either assumptions or
>  accusations, you do a huge amount of work and everybody here understands
>  that.
>  
>  That said, a parallel site could be useful in various ways, technical
>  and legal. 
Moreover, curiosity and impatience about what people have to say about
the latest RMS and FSF developments was the more significant factor here.

Looking at what people post, I think I can summarize it concisely:
people either love him or they hate him.

But we already knew that.

Regards,

Daniel

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 02:36:05AM +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>  Looking at what people post, I think I can summarize it concisely:
>  people either love him or they hate him. 
That is certainly not the case; I neither love nor hate him, although I do
try to make an effort to love all human beings, flaws and all. But, this
isn't a topic for devel list. We have several conversations about this in
progress, including in the Fedora Council on an official response and in the
Fedora Council Discussion category:

https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/free-software-advocates-seek-remov...

https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/rms-is-the-past-fedora-is-building...

Let's keep the devel list to devel.

-- 
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
Fedora Project Leader

[Daniel Pocock]

On 30/03/2021 16:17, Matthew Miller wrote:
>  On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 02:36:05AM +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> > Looking at what people post, I think I can summarize it concisely:
> > people either love him or they hate him.
>  
>  That is certainly not the case; I neither love nor hate him, although I do
>  try to make an effort to love all human beings, flaws and all. But, this
>  isn't a topic for devel list. We have several conversations about this in
>  progress, including in the Fedora Council on an official response and in the
>  Fedora Council Discussion category:
>  
>
> https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/free-software-advocates-seek-remov...
>  
>
> https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/rms-is-the-past-fedora-is-building...
>  
>  Let's keep the devel list to devel. 
Yes, I wasn't planning to elaborate here on devel.  I've added an extra
thread over there just in case two RMS threads are not enough.

https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/applying-the-same-criteria-to-fsf-...

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 01:37:48AM +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
>  As I noted in the original email, "I will not speculate that
> this is any
>  more than a coincidence".  I don't want to make either assumptions or
>  accusations, you do a huge amount of work and everybody here understands
>  that. 
Oh come on; this is a well-known rhetorical device, and I'm sure you know
that as well. You say that you will not "speculate", but then go ahead and
state the thing that you _would_ speculate, were you to do so, but claim to
not be doing. Of course, that's not actually any different. If you actually
do not want to raise an accusation, the way to do it is to not raise that
accusation.

This may sound like I am a bit irked, and I'll explain why: you already sent
me a private mail with a _different_ accusation, and I responded to you then
that it was not any intentional action at all and likely a side-effect of
the account system update -- which, as Kevin verifies, is the case. So you
_really_ have no reason for this speculation.

In any case, please make sure this site follows these trademark guidelines:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal:Trademark_guidelines#Community_sites...


-- 
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
Fedora Project Leader

[Daniel Pocock]

On 30/03/2021 16:11, Matthew Miller wrote:
>  On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 01:37:48AM +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote:
> > As I noted in the original email, "I will not speculate that this is any
> > more than a coincidence".  I don't want to make either assumptions or
> > accusations, you do a huge amount of work and everybody here understands
> > that.
>  
>  Oh come on; this is a well-known rhetorical device, and I'm sure you know
>  that as well. You say that you will not "speculate", but then go ahead and
>  state the thing that you _would_ speculate, were you to do so, but claim to
>  not be doing. Of course, that's not actually any different. If you actually
>  do not want to raise an accusation, the way to do it is to not raise that
>  accusation. 
Given we all know that there was a lot of work going on I feel most
people here appreciate that it is an unlucky coincidence.  I could have
been more careful to keep it at that level.

>  This may sound like I am a bit irked, and I'll explain why: you
> already sent
>  me a private mail with a _different_ accusation, and I responded to you then
>  that it was not any intentional action at all and likely a side-effect of
>  the account system update -- which, as Kevin verifies, is the case. So you
>  _really_ have no reason for this speculation. 
I'm genuinely sorry that all this negativity is going around and it has
been reflected in the email about this site.

I don't think the negativity starts with any one person on either side.
 The solution often involves investing in the organization and that is a
lot harder when everybody is losing contact with each other due to the
pandemic.

>  In any case, please make sure this site follows these trademark
> guidelines:
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal:Trademark_guidelines#Community_sites...
Thanks for pointing that out, I'll do a basic template some time in the
next few days.

Regards,

Daniel