first and only X needs to be on tty7

[Felix Miata]

How can I get it to go there and stay there? When starting F21 in multi-user, logging 
in on tty3 and running startx, KDE shows up on tty3, where, as it's currently 
broken[1], it needs to be killed to escape it. Ctrl-Alt-BS fails to kill it (in spite 
of xorg.con* entries intended that Ctrl-Alt-BS be enabled for that purpose), and 
switching to tty3 is unavailable to use Ctrl-C to kill it as can be done when started 
from tty3 but running on tty7. The only way out is logging in somewhere else, or CAD. 
This shouldn't be.

[1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1092852
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

[Lennart Poettering]

On Mon, 05.05.14 03:23, Felix Miata (mrmazda(a)earthlink.net) wrote:

>  How can I get it to go there and stay there? When starting F21 in
>  multi-user, logging in on tty3 and running startx, KDE shows up on
>  tty3, where, as it's currently broken[1], it needs to be killed to
>  escape it. Ctrl-Alt-BS fails to kill it (in spite of xorg.con*
>  entries intended that Ctrl-Alt-BS be enabled for that purpose), and
>  switching to tty3 is unavailable to use Ctrl-C to kill it as can be
>  done when started from tty3 but running on tty7. The only way out is
>  logging in somewhere else, or CAD. This shouldn't be.
>  
>  [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1092852 
To get the device permissions right startx can only "upgrade" a text
session to a graphical one, it cannot open a new VT. Hence if you want X
to show up on session N, then you need to start it from ttyN... Note
that only tty1-6 get logins by default, but you can configure that with
NAutoVTs= in /etc/systemd/logind.conf. 

Lennart

-- 
Lennart Poettering, Red Hat

[Felix Miata]

On 2014-05-05 12:34 (GMT+0200) Lennart Poettering composed:

>  Felix Miata wrote: 
> > How can I get it to go there and stay there? When starting F21
> in
> > multi-user, logging in on tty3 and running startx, KDE shows up on
> > tty3, where, as it's currently broken[1], it needs to be killed to
> > escape it. Ctrl-Alt-BS fails to kill it (in spite of xorg.con*
> > entries intended that Ctrl-Alt-BS be enabled for that purpose), and
> > switching to tty3 is unavailable to use Ctrl-C to kill it as can be
> > done when started from tty3 but running on tty7. The only way out is
> > logging in somewhere else, or CAD. This shouldn't be. 
> > [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1092852 
>  To get the device permissions right startx can only
> "upgrade" a text
>  session to a graphical one, 
There is a relatively recent change, as it used to be that the first X instance would 
always start on tty7 no matter how started. I still have a DM running there if in 
graphical target.

What is this permissions business? IOW, what search terms would lead me to an 
explanation of the changes, or at least a non-simplistic but not overly detailed why 
they occurred?

>   it cannot open a new VT. 
Why?

>   Hence if you want X
>  to show up on session N, then you need to start it from ttyN... Note
>  that only tty1-6 get logins by default, but you can configure that with
>  NAutoVTs= in /etc/systemd/logind.conf. 
That sounds like a method that will prevent a DM from running on the same tty as 
startx would as a first and only X session, as if that hasn't already happened. OT, 
reading that man page, is setting it 0 how to revert from auto spawning to keeping 
gettys running on all of tty1-6 as before systemd existed?

On the F21 system booted ATM:
systemd-212-2.rc21
xorg.x11.server.Xorg-1.15.99.902-5...fc21
xorg.x11.xauth-1.0.7-4.fc20
Booting graphical.target the DM is on tty7. Booting multi-user.target, logging in on 
tty3, and from tty3 switching to graphical.target (init 5) also puts the DM on tty7. 
Startx from tty3 puts X session on tty3 regardless whether DM is running. Why can't 
startx do whatever systemd did to get X going on tty7? Is there a replacement or 
substitute for startx that can? Ctrl-Alt-BS fails to kill the startx session. Ctcl-C 
is unavailable to kill the startx session from bash on tty3 because it's blocked by 
the broken X session.

Same machine booted to openSUSE Factory (target release November):
systemd-210-6.1
xorg.x11.server-7.6_1.15.99.902.2-312.11
xauth-1.0.8-11.1
Booting graphical.target the DM is on tty7. Booting multi-user.target, logging in on 
tty3, and from tty3 switching to graphical.target (init 5) also puts the DM on tty7. 
Startx -- :1 from tty3 with DM running puts X session on tty8 (same as happened in 
Fedora 5 years ago). Ctrl-Alt-BS succeeds to kill the X session. Ctrl-C on tty3 also 
will kill the X session started from it. All is same with DM not running (in 
multi-user.target) with simple startx, except the startx session is on tty7. Where X 
sessions land is nicely same as in e.g. F7 & F14.

I might not even care about the location of X sessions if only it wasn't so 
complicated to kill a broken one. Why doesn't Ctrl-Alt-BS not work any more?
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

[Lennart Poettering]

On Mon, 05.05.14 11:45, Felix Miata (mrmazda(a)earthlink.net) wrote:

>  On 2014-05-05 12:34 (GMT+0200) Lennart Poettering composed:
>  
>  >Felix Miata wrote:
>  
>  >>How can I get it to go there and stay there? When starting F21 in
>  >>multi-user, logging in on tty3 and running startx, KDE shows up on
>  >>tty3, where, as it's currently broken[1], it needs to be killed to
>  >>escape it. Ctrl-Alt-BS fails to kill it (in spite of xorg.con*
>  >>entries intended that Ctrl-Alt-BS be enabled for that purpose), and
>  >>switching to tty3 is unavailable to use Ctrl-C to kill it as can be
>  >>done when started from tty3 but running on tty7. The only way out is
>  >>logging in somewhere else, or CAD. This shouldn't be.
>  
>  >>[1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1092852
>  
>  >To get the device permissions right startx can only "upgrade" a text
>  >session to a graphical one,
>  
>  There is a relatively recent change, as it used to be that the first
>  X instance would always start on tty7 no matter how started. I still
>  have a DM running there if in graphical target. 
It's has been that way since Fedora adopted systemd, which was in F15 or
so IIRC? That makes 3.5y or so...

On Fedora tty1 is the graphical login, since a long time.

>  What is this permissions business? IOW, what search terms would lead
>  me to an explanation of the changes, or at least a non-simplistic
>  but not overly detailed why they occurred? 
Dunno, it's about making sure logind knows about your session and on
which VT it is, so that switching to/from it works correctly, and so
that we can managed access to your audio cards and similar properly. And
since very recently even access to input and gfx devices is managed by
logind, so this becomes even more important.

>  > it cannot open a new VT.
>  
>  Why? 
Because you'd have to register that new VT with logind, and there's no
way currently to do that, since creating a session is a one-way street,
and you cannot create another session from an existing one, without
involving some background process that is not part of any session. And
nobody wrote such a daemon yet.

>  > Hence if you want X
>  >to show up on session N, then you need to start it from ttyN... Note
>  >that only tty1-6 get logins by default, but you can configure that with
>  >NAutoVTs= in /etc/systemd/logind.conf.
>  
>  That sounds like a method that will prevent a DM from running on the
>  same tty as startx would as a first and only X session, as if that
>  hasn't already happened. OT, reading that man page, is setting it 0
>  how to revert from auto spawning to keeping gettys running on all of
>  tty1-6 as before systemd existed? 
I cannot parse this.

Lennart

-- 
Lennart Poettering, Red Hat

[Felix Miata]

On 2014-05-05 17:55 (GMT+0200) Lennart Poettering composed:

>  On Fedora tty1 is the graphical login, since a long time. 
I've managed to avoid that in order that my boot messages tail stays there 
undisturbed until such time as I've run out of vttys and need to use a sixth, the way

I like it, same as last century. Change isn't always improvement.

> > > Hence if you want X
> > >to show up on session N, then you need to start it from ttyN... Note
> > >that only tty1-6 get logins by default, but you can configure that with
> > >NAutoVTs= in /etc/systemd/logind.conf. 
> > That sounds like a method that will prevent a DM from running on
> the
> > same tty as startx would as a first and only X session, as if that
> > hasn't already happened. OT, reading that man page, is setting it 0
> > how to revert from auto spawning to keeping gettys running on all of
> > tty1-6 as before systemd existed? 
>  I cannot parse this. 
There are two parts to it. WRT part 2, as I wrote, OT WRT thread, I looked at the 
logind.conf man page section NAutoVTs= and was wondering if by setting it to 0 auto 
spawning vts could be dispensed with entirely so that gettys could run there 
continuously from the outset as they used to. Full screen sessions with bigger text 
are good for the eyes, so I use them a lot. I have a problem understanding that man 
page paragraph.

WRT part 1, I don't see from reading that man page how NAutoVTs= could do anything to

enable and/or further a first and only X session regardless how started to run 
unconditionally on tty7.
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

[Lennart Poettering]

On Mon, 05.05.14 12:24, Felix Miata (mrmazda(a)earthlink.net) wrote:

>  On 2014-05-05 17:55 (GMT+0200) Lennart Poettering composed:
>  
>  >On Fedora tty1 is the graphical login, since a long time.
>  
>  I've managed to avoid that in order that my boot messages tail stays
>  there undisturbed until such time as I've run out of vttys and need
>  to use a sixth, the way I like it, same as last century. Change
>  isn't always improvement. 
Hmm, well, this is Fedora, the bleeding edge of Linux
development. You'll not find everything supported exactly the same way
as 1989.

There are better ways to get boot itme log output. For example
"journalctl -b".

>  >>That sounds like a method that will prevent a DM from running
> on the
>  >>same tty as startx would as a first and only X session, as if that
>  >>hasn't already happened. OT, reading that man page, is setting it 0
>  >>how to revert from auto spawning to keeping gettys running on all of
>  >>tty1-6 as before systemd existed?
>  
>  >I cannot parse this.
>  
>  There are two parts to it. WRT part 2, as I wrote, OT WRT thread, I
>  looked at the logind.conf man page section NAutoVTs= and was
>  wondering if by setting it to 0 auto spawning vts could be dispensed
>  with entirely so that gettys could run there continuously from the
>  outset as they used to. Full screen sessions with bigger text are
>  good for the eyes, so I use them a lot. I have a problem
>  understanding that man page paragraph. 
You don't even need to set NAutoVT to 0 for that, you can simply
instantiate as many getty instances as you wish by symlinking
getty@.service from /usr/lib/systemd/system/ into
/etc/systemd/system/getty.wants/getty(a)tty2.service and so on...

>  WRT part 1, I don't see from reading that man page how NAutoVTs=
>  could do anything to enable and/or further a first and only X
>  session regardless how started to run unconditionally on tty7. 
logind will not configure how X works.

Lennart

-- 
Lennart Poettering, Red Hat

[Peter Hutterer]

On Mon, May 05, 2014 at 11:45:31AM -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
>  I might not even care about the location of X sessions if only it
>  wasn't so complicated to kill a broken one. Why doesn't Ctrl-Alt-BS
>  not work any more? 
http://who-t.blogspot.com.au/2009/04/zapping-server.html

[Felix Miata]

On 2014-05-06 11:04 (GMT+1000) Peter Hutterer composed:

>  On Mon, May 05, 2014 at 11:45:31AM -0400, Felix Miata wrote: 
> > I might not even care about the location of X sessions if only
> it
> > wasn't so complicated to kill a broken one. Why doesn't Ctrl-Alt-BS
> > not work any more? 
>  http://who-t.blogspot.com.au/2009/04/zapping-server.html 
Are you by providing that link in any way suggesting that there's been a keymap 
change that needs a user adjustment (for KDE users anyway if not others)? It provides 
no help where to look to make it happen globally in a post-sysvinit world.

For years, probably since the time of that document, I've had

	Option	"DontZap"	"off"
	Option	"ZapWarning"	"off"

somewhere in /etc/X11/xorg.con*. It used to work. Now it fails, but only in Fedora 
(at least as far back as F14, worked as recent at least as F8), so far that I've
noticed.

They still get the job done in Cauldron's 1.15.99.902, Factory's 1.15.99.902.2 and

Linux Mint LMDE (aka Debian Jessie/Sid) 1.14.3.
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

[Samuel Sieb]

On 05/05/2014 09:21 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
>  For years, probably since the time of that document, I've had
>
>       Option    "DontZap"    "off"
>       Option    "ZapWarning"    "off"
>
>  somewhere in /etc/X11/xorg.con*. It used to work. Now it fails, but only
>  in Fedora (at least as far back as F14, worked as recent at least as
>  F8), so far that I've noticed.
>  
I use the following that works on F20:
# cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/99-zap.conf
Section "ServerFlags"
         Option "DontZap" "false"
EndSection

Section "InputClass"
     Identifier      "Keyboard Defaults"
     MatchIsKeyboard "yes"
     Option          "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
EndSection

making Ctrl-Alt-Bksp work (was: first and only X needs to be on tty7)

[Felix Miata]

On 2014-05-06 00:13 (GMT-0700) Samuel Sieb composed:

>  Felix Miata wrote: 
> > For years, probably since the time of that document, I've had
> >      Option    "DontZap"    "off"
> >      Option    "ZapWarning"    "off" 
> > somewhere in /etc/X11/xorg.con*. It used to work. Now it fails,
> but only
> > in Fedora (at least as far back as F14, worked as recent at least as
> > F8), so far that I've noticed. 
>  I use the following that works on F20:
>  # cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/99-zap.conf
>  Section "ServerFlags"
>            Option "DontZap" "false"
>  EndSection 
>  Section "InputClass"
>        Identifier      "Keyboard Defaults"
>        MatchIsKeyboard "yes"
>        Option          "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
>  EndSection 
Thank you!

Turns out DontZap works with either false or off, but the difference between SUSE and 
Fedora is the addtional need for XkbOptions in Fedora, and here's why:

/usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/
--- evdev	2014-01-29 22:45:32.000000000 -0500
+++ evdev-suse	2014-04-09 15:51:53.000000000 -0400
@@ -857,9 +857,9 @@
    *		yu		unicodeyz	=	+srp(latinunicodeyz):4

  ! model		=	symbols
-  $evdevkbds    =   +inet(evdev)+inet(%m)
-  applealu_jis  =   +inet(evdev)+macintosh_vndr/jp(alujiskeys)
-  *             =   +inet(evdev)
+  $evdevkbds    =   +inet(evdev)+inet(%m)+terminate(ctrl_alt_bksp)
+  applealu_jis  =   +inet(evdev)+macintosh_vndr/jp(alujiskeys)+terminate(ctrl_alt_bksp)
+  *             =   +inet(evdev)+terminate(ctrl_alt_bksp)

  ! model		layout		=	symbols

Using the SUSE evdev file in place of Fedora's my original xorg.con* that used to 
work also in Fedora works in it again without need for the XkbOptions addition.
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

making Ctrl-Alt-Bksp work (was: first and only X needs to be on tty7)

[Peter Hutterer]

On Tue, May 06, 2014 at 06:15:12AM -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
>  On 2014-05-06 00:13 (GMT-0700) Samuel Sieb composed:
>  
>  >Felix Miata wrote:
>  
>  >>For years, probably since the time of that document, I've had
>  
>  >>     Option    "DontZap"    "off"
>  >>     Option    "ZapWarning"    "off"
>  
>  >>somewhere in /etc/X11/xorg.con*. It used to work. Now it fails, but only
>  >>in Fedora (at least as far back as F14, worked as recent at least as
>  >>F8), so far that I've noticed.
>  
>  >I use the following that works on F20:
>  ># cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/99-zap.conf
>  >Section "ServerFlags"
>  >          Option "DontZap" "false"
>  >EndSection
>  
>  >Section "InputClass"
>  >      Identifier      "Keyboard Defaults"
>  >      MatchIsKeyboard "yes"
>  >      Option          "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
>  >EndSection 
fwiw (only answering one email) this is what systemd-localed should drop
into /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf, with configuration based on
whatever language settings you picked. so you shouldn't need this section.

>  Thank you!
>  
>  Turns out DontZap works with either false or off, but the difference 
the option parser in X is entertaining. "no", "off",
"false", and "0" all
work to disable, and so does prefixing the option with "No". So Option
"NoDontZap" "off" is valid, just don't expect anyone to understand
a
triple-negation :) you can also sprinkle random whitespaces or underscores
in there, in case you have too many of them.

Cheers,
   Peter

>  between SUSE and Fedora is the addtional need for XkbOptions in
>  Fedora, and here's why:
>  
>  /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/
>  --- evdev	2014-01-29 22:45:32.000000000 -0500
>  +++ evdev-suse	2014-04-09 15:51:53.000000000 -0400
>  @@ -857,9 +857,9 @@
>     *		yu		unicodeyz	=	+srp(latinunicodeyz):4
>  
>   ! model		=	symbols
>  -  $evdevkbds    =   +inet(evdev)+inet(%m)
>  -  applealu_jis  =   +inet(evdev)+macintosh_vndr/jp(alujiskeys)
>  -  *             =   +inet(evdev)
>  +  $evdevkbds    =   +inet(evdev)+inet(%m)+terminate(ctrl_alt_bksp)
>  +  applealu_jis  =   +inet(evdev)+macintosh_vndr/jp(alujiskeys)+terminate(ctrl_alt_bksp)
>  +  *             =   +inet(evdev)+terminate(ctrl_alt_bksp)
>  
>   ! model		layout		=	symbols
>  
>  Using the SUSE evdev file in place of Fedora's my original xorg.con*
>  that used to work also in Fedora works in it again without need for
>  the XkbOptions addition.
>  -- 
>  "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
>  words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
>  
>   Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
>  
>  Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
>  -- 
>  devel mailing list
>  devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
>  Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
>

making Ctrl-Alt-Bksp work

[Felix Miata]

On 2014-05-07 21:09 (GMT+1000) Peter Hutterer composed:

> > >Section "InputClass"
> > >      Identifier      "Keyboard Defaults"
> > >      MatchIsKeyboard "yes"
> > >      Option          "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
> > >EndSection 
>  fwiw (only answering one email) this is what systemd-localed should
> drop
>  into /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf, with configuration based on
>  whatever language settings you picked. so you shouldn't need this section. 
An F21 boot to multiuser, delete of 00-keyboard.conf, and then startx leaves 
/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ void of 00-keyboard.conf, so apparently systemd-localed 
currently drops nothing at all there.

> > Turns out DontZap works with either false or off, but the
> difference 
>  the option parser in X is entertaining. "no",
> "off", "false", and "0" all
>  work to disable, and so does prefixing the option with "No". So Option
>  "NoDontZap" "off" is valid, just don't expect anyone to
> understand a
>  triple-negation :) you can also sprinkle random whitespaces or underscores
>  in there, in case you have too many of them. 
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

making Ctrl-Alt-Bksp work (was: first and only X needs to be on tty7)

[Sérgio Basto]

answering to the subject 

my /etc/X11/xorg.conf is: 

Section "ServerLayout"
    Identifier     "single head configuration"
    Option      "DontZap" "false"
    Option      "DontZoom" "false"
EndSection


On Qua, 2014-05-07 at 21:09 +1000, Peter Hutterer wrote: 
>  On Tue, May 06, 2014 at 06:15:12AM -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
>  > On 2014-05-06 00:13 (GMT-0700) Samuel Sieb composed:
>  > 
>  > >Felix Miata wrote:
>  > 
>  > >>For years, probably since the time of that document, I've had
>  > 
>  > >>     Option    "DontZap"    "off"
>  > >>     Option    "ZapWarning"    "off"
>  > 
>  > >>somewhere in /etc/X11/xorg.con*. It used to work. Now it fails, but only
>  > >>in Fedora (at least as far back as F14, worked as recent at least as
>  > >>F8), so far that I've noticed.
>  > 
>  > >I use the following that works on F20:
>  > ># cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/99-zap.conf
>  > >Section "ServerFlags"
>  > >          Option "DontZap" "false"
>  > >EndSection
>  > 
>  > >Section "InputClass"
>  > >      Identifier      "Keyboard Defaults"
>  > >      MatchIsKeyboard "yes"
>  > >      Option          "XkbOptions"
> "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
>  > >EndSection
>  
>  fwiw (only answering one email) this is what systemd-localed should drop
>  into /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf, with configuration based on
>  whatever language settings you picked. so you shouldn't need this section.
>  
>  > Thank you!
>  > 
>  > Turns out DontZap works with either false or off, but the difference
>  
>  the option parser in X is entertaining. "no", "off",
> "false", and "0" all
>  work to disable, and so does prefixing the option with "No". So Option
>  "NoDontZap" "off" is valid, just don't expect anyone to
> understand a
>  triple-negation :) you can also sprinkle random whitespaces or underscores
>  in there, in case you have too many of them.
>  
>  Cheers,
>     Peter
>  
>  > between SUSE and Fedora is the addtional need for XkbOptions in
>  > Fedora, and here's why:
>  > 
>  > /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/
>  > --- evdev	2014-01-29 22:45:32.000000000 -0500
>  > +++ evdev-suse	2014-04-09 15:51:53.000000000 -0400
>  > @@ -857,9 +857,9 @@
>  >    *		yu		unicodeyz	=	+srp(latinunicodeyz):4
>  > 
>  >  ! model		=	symbols
>  > -  $evdevkbds    =   +inet(evdev)+inet(%m)
>  > -  applealu_jis  =   +inet(evdev)+macintosh_vndr/jp(alujiskeys)
>  > -  *             =   +inet(evdev)
>  > +  $evdevkbds    =   +inet(evdev)+inet(%m)+terminate(ctrl_alt_bksp)
>  > +  applealu_jis  =  
> +inet(evdev)+macintosh_vndr/jp(alujiskeys)+terminate(ctrl_alt_bksp)
>  > +  *             =   +inet(evdev)+terminate(ctrl_alt_bksp)
>  > 
>  >  ! model		layout		=	symbols
>  > 
>  > Using the SUSE evdev file in place of Fedora's my original xorg.con*
>  > that used to work also in Fedora works in it again without need for
>  > the XkbOptions addition.
>  > -- 
>  > "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
>  > words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
>  > 
>  >  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
>  > 
>  > Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
>  > -- 
>  > devel mailing list
>  > devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
>  > Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
>  >  
-- 
Sérgio M. B.

making Ctrl-Alt-Bksp work

[Felix Miata]

On 2014-05-07 18:22 (GMT+0100) Sérgio Basto composed:

>  answering to the subject 
>  my /etc/X11/xorg.conf is: 
>  Section "ServerLayout"
>       Identifier     "single head configuration"
>       Option      "DontZap" "false"
>       Option      "DontZoom" "false"
>  EndSection 
In what way does that answer anything? Unless you are using a UMS video driver, I 
doubt DontZoom has any effect on anything. Does Ctrl-Alt-Bksp do anything on your 
system? If so, what locale do you use, and which video driver?
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

making Ctrl-Alt-Bksp work

[Reindl Harald]

Am 07.05.2014 19:41, schrieb Felix Miata:
>  On 2014-05-07 18:22 (GMT+0100) Sérgio Basto composed:
>  
> > answering to the subject
>  
> > my /etc/X11/xorg.conf is:
>  
> > Section "ServerLayout"
> >      Identifier     "single head configuration"
> >      Option      "DontZap" "false"
> >      Option      "DontZoom" "false"
> > EndSection
>  
>  In what way does that answer anything? Unless you are using a UMS video driver, I doubt
> DontZoom has any effect on
>  anything. Does Ctrl-Alt-Bksp do anything on your system? If so, what locale do you use,
> and which video driver? 
that bring sme back to the login-creen on any pyhsical machine
with Ctrl-Alt-Bksp over years

[root@srv-rhsoft:/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d]$ cat 00-keyboard.conf
Section "InputClass"
 Identifier          "system-setup-keyboard"
 MatchIsKeyboard     "on"
 Option "XkbModel"   "pc105"
 Option "XkbLayout"  "de"
 Option "XkbVariant" "nodeadkeys"
 Option "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp,"
EndSection

making Ctrl-Alt-Bksp work

[Sérgio Basto]

On Qua, 2014-05-07 at 19:45 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote: 
>  
>  Am 07.05.2014 19:41, schrieb Felix Miata:
>  > On 2014-05-07 18:22 (GMT+0100) Sérgio Basto composed:
>  > 
>  >> answering to the subject
>  > 
>  >> my /etc/X11/xorg.conf is:
>  > 
>  >> Section "ServerLayout"
>  >>      Identifier     "single head configuration"
>  >>      Option      "DontZap" "false"
>  >>      Option      "DontZoom" "false"
>  >> EndSection
>  > 
>  > In what way does that answer anything? Unless you are using a UMS video driver, I
> doubt DontZoom has any effect on
>  > anything. Does Ctrl-Alt-Bksp do anything on your system? If so, what locale do you
> use, and which video driver? 
yes Ctrl-Alt-Bksp works and restart X , as Reindl Harald notice, I also
have  

Option "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp,

cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf 

Section "InputClass"
        Identifier      "system-setup-keyboard"
        MatchIsKeyboard "on"
        Option          "XkbModel"      "pc105"
        Option          "XkbLayout"     "pt"
        Option          "XkbOptions"    "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp,"
EndSection

my video card is :
[    52.601] (II) intel(0): [DRI2]   DRI driver: i965


"DontZoom" don't works , you are right 


>  that bring sme back to the login-creen on any pyhsical machine
>  with Ctrl-Alt-Bksp over years
>  
>  [root@srv-rhsoft:/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d]$ cat 00-keyboard.conf
>  Section "InputClass"
>   Identifier          "system-setup-keyboard"
>   MatchIsKeyboard     "on"
>   Option "XkbModel"   "pc105"
>   Option "XkbLayout"  "de"
>   Option "XkbVariant" "nodeadkeys"
>   Option "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp,"
>  EndSection
>   
-- 
Sérgio M. B.

making Ctrl-Alt-Bksp work

[Felix Miata]

On 2014-05-07 19:03 (GMT+0100) Sérgio Basto composed:

>  yes Ctrl-Alt-Bksp works and restart X , as Reindl Harald notice, I
> also have 
>  Option "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp, 
>  cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf 
>           Option          "XkbModel"      "pc105"
>           Option          "XkbLayout"     "pt"
>           Option          "XkbOptions"    "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp,"
>  my video card is :
>  [    52.601] (II) intel(0): [DRI2]   DRI driver: i965 
>  "DontZoom" don't works , you are right 
Your (locale pt) and Reindl's (locale de) answers beg two questions:

1-why do 00-keyboard.conf for pt and de contain terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp, but for 
locale us it is absent?

2-what creates 00-keyboard.conf in the first place, since it doesn't get 
automatically recreated even by rebooting if deleted?

re 2: Maybe your two installations have 00-keyboard.conf carried over from before 
xorg-x11-drv-keyboard was superceded by xorg-x11-drv-evdev, which on (re)installation 
does not create it if it does not exist?
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

making Ctrl-Alt-Bksp work

[Fidel Leon]

Just adding my two cents as I don't use the us locale.

On Wednesday 07 May 2014 14:38:59 Felix Miata wrote:
>  On 2014-05-07 19:03 (GMT+0100) Sérgio Basto composed:
>  > yes Ctrl-Alt-Bksp works and restart X , as Reindl Harald notice, I also
>  > have
>  > 
>  1-why do 00-keyboard.conf for pt and de contain terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp, but
>  for locale us it is absent? 
The es locale doesn't have a terminate subsection...:

# Read and parsed by systemd-localed. It's probably wise not to edit this file
# manually too freely.
Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "system-keyboard"
        MatchIsKeyboard "on"
        Option "XkbLayout" "es,si,rs"
        Option "XkbVariant" ",,"
        Option "XkbOptions" "grp:lalt_lshift_toggle"
EndSection

>  2-what creates 00-keyboard.conf in the first place, since it
> doesn't get
>  automatically recreated even by rebooting if deleted? 
I installed my Fedora from a network install image, and the three locales I 
have were the languages I itold anaconda I wanted support for. Hence, at least 
for me, it was the system installation which created it.

>  re 2: Maybe your two installations have 00-keyboard.conf carried over
> from
>  before xorg-x11-drv-keyboard was superceded by xorg-x11-drv-evdev, which on
>  (re)installation does not create it if it does not exist? 
My case was a clean install.

-- 
Fidel Leon
fidelleon(a)mykolab.com
GSM: [phone]
GPG: AD74FB97
"Developers have the attention spans of slightly moronic woodland creatures."

making Ctrl-Alt-Bksp work

[Felix Miata]

On 2014-05-07 20:49 (GMT+0200) Fidel Leon composed:

> > re 2: Maybe your two installations have 00-keyboard.conf carried
> over from
> > before xorg-x11-drv-keyboard was superceded by xorg-x11-drv-evdev, which on
> > (re)installation does not create it if it does not exist? 
>  My case was a clean install. 
Every install had to be a clean install by going far enough back in time. The 
question remains when you did a clean install, as retirement of the keyboard driver 
was recent, and may have occurred after your clean installation.
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

making Ctrl-Alt-Bksp work

[Fidel Leon]

On Wednesday 07 May 2014 16:01:53 Felix Miata wrote:
>  On 2014-05-07 20:49 (GMT+0200) Fidel Leon composed:
>  >> re 2: Maybe your two installations have 00-keyboard.conf carried over
>  >> from
>  >> before xorg-x11-drv-keyboard was superceded by xorg-x11-drv-evdev, which
>  >> on
>  >> (re)installation does not create it if it does not exist?
>  > 
>  > My case was a clean install.
>  
>  Every install had to be a clean install by going far enough back in time. 
Yes, of course, my point was saying "I haven't upgraded from past releases",
no old files which could carry such setup.

Anyway:

# ll -dt /boot/grub2/grub.cfg /boot/lost+found/
/boot/initramfs-3.14.2-200.fc20.i686+PAE.img /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf 
-rw-------. 1 root root     4799 May  4 00:05 /boot/grub2/grub.cfg
-rw-------. 1 root root 19034041 May  4 00:04
/boot/initramfs-3.14.2-200.fc20.i686+PAE.img
-rw-r--r--. 1 root root      324 May  4 00:02 /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf
drwx------. 2 root root    12288 May  3 20:38 /boot/lost+found/

That was four days ago - exactly when I (re)installed F20. I did a network installation,
so most installed packages were already in the most current versions. Hence, in some
moment after package installation but before the dracut and grub installation steps, was
my keyboard file created (.conf file which follows what anaconda wrote in the kickstart
files).

That's consistent with what I see on another system I manage, which used a Xfce live
CD to be installed.
-- 
Fidel Leon
fidelleon(a)mykolab.com
GSM: [phone]
GPG: AD74FB97
"Developers have the attention spans of slightly moronic woodland creatures."

making Ctrl-Alt-Bksp work

[Reindl Harald]

Am 07.05.2014 20:38, schrieb Felix Miata:
>  On 2014-05-07 19:03 (GMT+0100) Sérgio Basto composed:
>  
> > yes Ctrl-Alt-Bksp works and restart X , as Reindl Harald notice, I also have
>  
> > Option "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp,
>  
> > cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf
>  
> >          Option          "XkbModel"      "pc105"
> >          Option          "XkbLayout"     "pt"
> >          Option          "XkbOptions"   
> "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp,"
>  
> > my video card is :
> > [    52.601] (II) intel(0): [DRI2]   DRI driver: i965
>  
> > "DontZoom" don't works , you are right
>  
>  Your (locale pt) and Reindl's (locale de) answers beg two questions:
>  
>  1-why do 00-keyboard.conf for pt and de contain terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp, but for locale
> us it is absent? 
because nobody did write it there?

>  2-what creates 00-keyboard.conf in the first place, since it
> doesn't get automatically 
>  recreated even by rebooting if deleted? 
not what - who - a smart admin in my case which just used google years ago:
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=602885

making Ctrl-Alt-Bksp work

[Peter Hutterer]

On Wed, May 07, 2014 at 02:38:59PM -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
>  On 2014-05-07 19:03 (GMT+0100) Sérgio Basto composed:
>  
>  >yes Ctrl-Alt-Bksp works and restart X , as Reindl Harald notice, I also have
>  
>  >Option "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp,
>  
>  >cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf
>  
>  >         Option          "XkbModel"      "pc105"
>  >         Option          "XkbLayout"     "pt"
>  >         Option          "XkbOptions"   
> "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp,"
>  
>  >my video card is :
>  >[    52.601] (II) intel(0): [DRI2]   DRI driver: i965
>  
>  >"DontZoom" don't works , you are right
>  
>  Your (locale pt) and Reindl's (locale de) answers beg two questions:
>  
>  1-why do 00-keyboard.conf for pt and de contain
>  terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp, but for locale us it is absent?
>  
>  2-what creates 00-keyboard.conf in the first place, since it doesn't
>  get automatically recreated even by rebooting if deleted? 
systemd-localed. This file is written when you change the locale, either
during install or later with localectl. It doesn't automatically get
restored when you delete it.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Input_device_configuration
lists the magic command as:
   localectl set-x11-keymap "us" "" ""
"terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"

which communicates the new keymap to systemd-localed, which then writes out
the file.

but having just tested this on F20, just running "localectl set-keymap us"
also writes out the right configuration, including the terminate option. The
above is needed for custom x11 keymaps, but shouldn't be needed for normal
setup.

>  re 2: Maybe your two installations have 00-keyboard.conf carried
>  over from before xorg-x11-drv-keyboard was superceded by
>  xorg-x11-drv-evdev, which on (re)installation does not create it if
>  it does not exist? 
neither the keyboard nor the evdev driver have anything to do with it. the
retirement of the keyboard driver should have no effect on anything newer
than, say, Fedora 12.

Zapping in the server works as a two-stage process. A key combination is
interpreted by a XKB as a Terminate_Server action. The server then
interprets that and terminates. With DontZap you only control the
second part, i.e. whether the server terminates when the action is triggered.
If you don't have the XKB setting, you can't trigger it in the first place.
And DontZap is only useful if you want to _prohibit_ zapping completely. It
just makes Terminate_Server do nothing.

For your use-case, forget about DontZap, it has no effect. I'm the
maintainer for these parts of the server, so regardless of how many
configurations you find that tell you to enable it, please trust my word
here. You need to get the terminate XKB option into your keymap, that's all
that matters.

Cheers,
   Peter

making Ctrl-Alt-Bksp work

[Felix Miata]

On 2014-05-08 08:43 (GMT+1000) Peter Hutterer composed:

>  On Wed, May 07, 2014 at 02:38:59PM -0400, Felix Miata wrote: 
> > Your (locale pt) and Reindl's (locale de) answers beg two
> questions: 
> > 1-why do 00-keyboard.conf for pt and de contain
> > terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp, but for locale us it is absent? 
> > 2-what creates 00-keyboard.conf in the first place, since it
> doesn't
> > get automatically recreated even by rebooting if deleted? 
>  systemd-localed. This file is written when you change the locale,
> either
>  during install or later with localectl. It doesn't automatically get
>  restored when you delete it. 
>  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Input_device_configuration
>  lists the magic command as:
>      localectl set-x11-keymap "us" "" ""
> "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp" 
On a Rawhide system originally installed 6 weeks ago running in multi-user I deleted 
00-keyboard.conf, then did yum upgrade, and before rebooting the new kernel tried 
that command, with these results:

Failed to set keymap: Connection timed out
new 00-keyboard.conf not written
I had to force a reboot, as most anything I tried related to shutting down timed out.

After reboot it succeeded, but I still wonder why CAD gets enabled there at 
installation time for pt and de by not us. :-(

>  which communicates the new keymap to systemd-localed, which then
> writes out
>  the file. 
>  but having just tested this on F20, just running "localectl
> set-keymap us"
>  also writes out the right configuration, including the terminate option. The
>  above is needed for custom x11 keymaps, but shouldn't be needed for normal
>  setup. 
> > re 2: Maybe your two installations have 00-keyboard.conf carried
> > over from before xorg-x11-drv-keyboard was superceded by
> > xorg-x11-drv-evdev, which on (re)installation does not create it if
> > it does not exist? 
>  neither the keyboard nor the evdev driver have anything to do with
> it. the
>  retirement of the keyboard driver should have no effect on anything newer
>  than, say, Fedora 12. 
>  Zapping in the server works as a two-stage process. A key combination
> is
>  interpreted by a XKB as a Terminate_Server action. The server then
>  interprets that and terminates. With DontZap you only control the
>  second part, i.e. whether the server terminates when the action is triggered.
>  If you don't have the XKB setting, you can't trigger it in the first place.
>  And DontZap is only useful if you want to _prohibit_ zapping completely. It
>  just makes Terminate_Server do nothing. 
>  For your use-case, forget about DontZap, it has no effect. I'm
> the
>  maintainer for these parts of the server, so regardless of how many
>  configurations you find that tell you to enable it, please trust my word
>  here. You need to get the terminate XKB option into your keymap, that's all
>  that matters. 
FWIW, on one F21 system with radeon video here even a normal exit from a startx KDE 
session is leaving the screen on the tty started from black. A shift to a tty and 
back then draws what had been expected. I've tried on 6+ other installations, one 
with radeon, and all the others behave as expected.
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

  Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

making Ctrl-Alt-Bksp work

[Peter Hutterer]

On Thu, May 08, 2014 at 11:43:08PM -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
>  On 2014-05-08 08:43 (GMT+1000) Peter Hutterer composed:
>  
>  >On Wed, May 07, 2014 at 02:38:59PM -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
>  
>  >>Your (locale pt) and Reindl's (locale de) answers beg two questions:
>  
>  >>1-why do 00-keyboard.conf for pt and de contain
>  >>terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp, but for locale us it is absent?
>  
>  >>2-what creates 00-keyboard.conf in the first place, since it doesn't
>  >>get automatically recreated even by rebooting if deleted?
>  
>  >systemd-localed. This file is written when you change the locale, either
>  >during install or later with localectl. It doesn't automatically get
>  >restored when you delete it.
>  
>  >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Input_device_configuration
>  >lists the magic command as:
>  >    localectl set-x11-keymap "us" "" ""
> "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
>  
>  On a Rawhide system originally installed 6 weeks ago running in
>  multi-user I deleted 00-keyboard.conf, then did yum upgrade, and
>  before rebooting the new kernel tried that command, with these
>  results:
>  
>  Failed to set keymap: Connection timed out
>  new 00-keyboard.conf not written
>  I had to force a reboot, as most anything I tried related to shutting down timed out.
loginctl doesn't write the file, it talks over dbus to systemd-logind which
writes out the file. This is the connection that failed, for some reason.

>  After reboot it succeeded, but I still wonder why CAD gets enabled
>  there at installation time for pt and de by not us. :-( 
what's in your /etc/vconsole.conf? We've now reached a point where it's
better to file a bug report though.

Cheers,
   Peter


>  >which communicates the new keymap to systemd-localed, which then
> writes out
>  >the file.
>  
>  >but having just tested this on F20, just running "localectl set-keymap us"
>  >also writes out the right configuration, including the terminate option. The
>  >above is needed for custom x11 keymaps, but shouldn't be needed for normal
>  >setup.
>  
>  >>re 2: Maybe your two installations have 00-keyboard.conf carried
>  >>over from before xorg-x11-drv-keyboard was superceded by
>  >>xorg-x11-drv-evdev, which on (re)installation does not create it if
>  >>it does not exist?
>  
>  >neither the keyboard nor the evdev driver have anything to do with it. the
>  >retirement of the keyboard driver should have no effect on anything newer
>  >than, say, Fedora 12.
>  
>  >Zapping in the server works as a two-stage process. A key combination is
>  >interpreted by a XKB as a Terminate_Server action. The server then
>  >interprets that and terminates. With DontZap you only control the
>  >second part, i.e. whether the server terminates when the action is triggered.
>  >If you don't have the XKB setting, you can't trigger it in the first place.
>  >And DontZap is only useful if you want to _prohibit_ zapping completely. It
>  >just makes Terminate_Server do nothing.
>  
>  >For your use-case, forget about DontZap, it has no effect. I'm the
>  >maintainer for these parts of the server, so regardless of how many
>  >configurations you find that tell you to enable it, please trust my word
>  >here. You need to get the terminate XKB option into your keymap, that's all
>  >that matters.
>  
>  FWIW, on one F21 system with radeon video here even a normal exit
>  from a startx KDE session is leaving the screen on the tty started
>  from black. A shift to a tty and back then draws what had been
>  expected. I've tried on 6+ other installations, one with radeon, and
>  all the others behave as expected.
>  -- 
>  "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
>  words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
>  
>   Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
>  
>  Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
>  -- 
>  devel mailing list
>  devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
>  Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
>

making Ctrl-Alt-Bksp work

[Adam Williamson]

On Tue, 2014-05-13 at 09:56 +1000, Peter Hutterer wrote:

>  > After reboot it succeeded, but I still wonder why CAD gets
> enabled
>  > there at installation time for pt and de by not us. :-(
>  
>  what's in your /etc/vconsole.conf? We've now reached a point where it's
>  better to file a bug report though. 
This could get messy.

For one thing I suspect i may be to do with it being the default layout;
perhaps this means anaconda never explicitly calls localed to write out
a config if you never change the layout from us. I'd have to dig into
anaconda to make sure.

The thing that makes it messy, though, is the vestigial bit of
system-config-keyboard / system-setup-keyboard that systemd/localed is
still lugging around, the Magic List of keyboard layouts called
kbd-model-map . It's in /usr/share/systemd/kbd-model-map on an installed
system, src/locale/kbd-model-map in a systemd git checkout.

A layout setting operation that gets run through that list is probably
going to get the terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp option set, because it's listed
in the 'xoptions' column of kbd-model-map for every layout that file
contains.

I no longer recall exactly when localed does and possibly does not use
kbd-model-map. I'd have to investigate a bit. And there may be other
wrinkles around the place. But that's at least one place to look. (An
obvious first test is to try an install with two similar non-default
keyboard layouts, one that's listed in kbd-model-map and one that isn't,
and see what happens).
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net
http://www.happyassassin.net

[Peter Hutterer]

On Tue, May 06, 2014 at 12:21:05AM -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
>  On 2014-05-06 11:04 (GMT+1000) Peter Hutterer composed:
>  
>  >On Mon, May 05, 2014 at 11:45:31AM -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
>  
>  >>I might not even care about the location of X sessions if only it
>  >>wasn't so complicated to kill a broken one. Why doesn't Ctrl-Alt-BS
>  >>not work any more?
>  
>  >http://who-t.blogspot.com.au/2009/04/zapping-server.html
>  
>  Are you by providing that link in any way suggesting that there's
>  been a keymap change that needs a user adjustment (for KDE users
>  anyway if not others)? It provides no help where to look to make it
>  happen globally in a post-sysvinit world. 
there is no "globally" and it has nothing to do with being post-sysvinit.
you can add it to the default options on startup with an InputClass section
(which we do, check /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf) so it'll work out
of the box until something overwrites the user's keymap. That something
could be gdm or your desktop environment, ymmv.

if you want it set for your user in GNOME, install gnome-tweak-tool, it's in
Typing, iirc. Other desktops have other ways to configure it, but I don't
know those off-heart.
 
>  For years, probably since the time of that document, I've had
>  
>  	Option	"DontZap"	"off"
>  	Option	"ZapWarning"	"off"
>  
>  somewhere in /etc/X11/xorg.con*. It used to work. Now it fails, but 
DontZap disallows zapping completely, regardless of your xkb settings. But
you're setting it to what is the default, so it has no effect. ZapWarning
is not an option in Fedora, it's an old SuSE patch that never got merged
upstream. Your config has no effect since X server 1.6 or possibly longer.

>  only in Fedora (at least as far back as F14, worked as recent at
>  least as F8), so far that I've noticed. 
F11 had this change, judging by the package names I linked to in that blog
post.
 
>  They still get the job done in Cauldron's 1.15.99.902,
> Factory's
>  1.15.99.902.2 and Linux Mint LMDE (aka Debian Jessie/Sid) 1.14.3. 
yeah, and Fedora stays close to upstream, so we don't have those patches.

Cheers,
   Peter

[Hans de Goede]

Hi,

On 05/05/2014 05:45 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
>  On 2014-05-05 12:34 (GMT+0200) Lennart Poettering composed:
>  
> > Felix Miata wrote:
>  
> >> How can I get it to go there and stay there? When starting F21 in
> >> multi-user, logging in on tty3 and running startx, KDE shows up on
> >> tty3, where, as it's currently broken[1], it needs to be killed to
> >> escape it. Ctrl-Alt-BS fails to kill it (in spite of xorg.con*
> >> entries intended that Ctrl-Alt-BS be enabled for that purpose), and
> >> switching to tty3 is unavailable to use Ctrl-C to kill it as can be
> >> done when started from tty3 but running on tty7. The only way out is
> >> logging in somewhere else, or CAD. This shouldn't be.
>  
> >> [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1092852
>  
> > To get the device permissions right startx can only "upgrade" a text
> > session to a graphical one,
>  
>  There is a relatively recent change, as it used to be that the first X instance would
> always start on tty7 no matter how started. I still have a DM running there if in
> graphical target.
>  
>  What is this permissions business? IOW, what search terms would lead me to an explanation
> of the changes, or at least a non-simplistic but not overly detailed why they occurred?
>  
> >  it cannot open a new VT.
>  
>  Why? 
Part of the reasons are explained here:
http://hansdegoede.livejournal.com/14268.html

Note that this only is valid from F-21 on-wards, but it is strongly
related to why it cannot be done either in F-20.

Regards,

Hans

Ctrl+Alt+BkSp (was: Re: first and only X needs to be on tty7)

[Kevin Kofler]

Felix Miata wrote:
>  Ctrl-Alt-BS fails to kill it (in spite of xorg.con* entries intended
> that
>  Ctrl-Alt-BS be enabled for that purpose 
For the future, Ctrl+Alt+BkSp can be enabled in KDE System Settings under 
"Keyboard Layouts / Advanced". (It's an xkb option.)

(And I still think that it was a mistake to disable it by default to begin 
with!)

        Kevin Kofler