Golang SIG for Fedora

[Jakub Cajka]

Hello,

it seems that lately there has been more people maintaining Go package in the Fedora. I would like to propose to join up and form Go SIG so we could better co-ordinate and collaborate on the packaging issues and general developer experience.

There are few big outstanding issues that needs to be solved that need more than individual work, most notably the Go packaging guidelines and tooling. I think that should be one of the first tasks for the SIG.

To introduce myself. I'm for some while golang (co-)maintainer and recently started co-maintaining origin package. I'm mostly interested in the compiler and developer experience.

Please reply if you would like to participate.

JC

PS: Also I will be at Flock this year and would like to meet up with anyone interested there.

[Ricardo Martinelli Oliveira]

+1, I started looking on packaging Go libraries and looking for
recommendations. I saw [1] but as this seems more a draft (so a WIP
document) it would be good if we have specific group to discuss best
practices, package reviews, etc.

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingDrafts/Go

On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 10:28 AM, Jakub Cajka  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> it seems that lately there has been more people maintaining Go package in the Fedora. I would like to propose to join up and form Go SIG so we could better co-ordinate and collaborate on the packaging issues and general developer experience.
>
> There are few big outstanding issues that needs to be solved that need more than individual work, most notably the Go packaging guidelines and tooling. I think that should be one of the first tasks for the SIG.
>
> To introduce myself. I'm for some while golang (co-)maintainer and recently started co-maintaining origin package. I'm mostly interested in the compiler and developer experience.
>
> Please reply if you would like to participate.
>
> JC
>
> PS: Also I will be at Flock this year and would like to meet up with anyone interested there.
>
> devel mailing list -- [e-mail]
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[Robert-André Mauchin]

On vendredi 27 juillet 2018 15:28:12 CEST Jakub Cajka wrote:
> Hello,
>
> it seems that lately there has been more people maintaining Go package in
> the Fedora. I would like to propose to join up and form Go SIG so we could
> better co-ordinate and collaborate on the packaging issues and general
> developer experience.
> There are few big outstanding issues that needs to be solved that need
> more than individual work, most notably the Go packaging guidelines and
> tooling. I think that should be one of the first tasks for the SIG.
> To introduce myself. I'm for some while golang (co-)maintainer and
> recently started co-maintaining origin package. I'm mostly interested in
> the compiler and developer experience.
> Please reply if you would like to participate.
>
> JC
>
> PS: Also I will be at Flock this year and would like to meet up with
> anyone interested there.
>

I maintain around 130 Golang packages and I'd be interested in participating 
in a SIG.

Best regards,

Robert-André

[Nicolas Mailhot]

Hi,

I'm obviously interested, even though I'm not available all year round

[Michael Cronenworth]

On 07/27/2018 08:28 AM, Jakub Cajka wrote:
> There are few big outstanding issues that needs to be solved that need more than individual work, most notably the Go packaging guidelines and tooling. I think that should be one of the first tasks for the SIG.

I'm not looking to join the SIG, but I will share my experience with golang in Fedora.

It appears that packages are being dumped into Fedora and forgotten about. I'm 
trying to package "Packer"[1] and ran into multiple dependencies that were committed 
once and never updated. This has to change.

Thanks,
Michael

[1] https://www.packer.io/
[2] golang-github-fatih-color
[3] golang-github-mitchellh-cli

[Derek Parker]

On 08/02/2018 12:45 PM, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
> On 07/27/2018 08:28 AM, Jakub Cajka wrote:
> > There are few big outstanding issues that needs to be solved that
> > need more than individual work, most notably the Go packaging
> > guidelines and tooling. I think that should be one of the first tasks
> > for the SIG.
>
> I'm not looking to join the SIG, but I will share my experience with
> golang in Fedora.
>
> It appears that packages are being dumped into Fedora and forgotten
> about. I'm trying to package "Packer"[1] and ran into multiple
> dependencies that were committed once and never updated. This has to
> change.
>
> Thanks,
> Michael
>
> [1] https://www.packer.io/
> [2] golang-github-fatih-color
> [3] golang-github-mitchellh-cli
> _______________________________________________
> devel mailing list -- [e-mail]
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A bit late to reply to this list, but I would like to be included in
this SIG.

[Athos Ribeiro]

On Thu, Aug 02, 2018 at 02:45:54PM -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
> On 07/27/2018 08:28 AM, Jakub Cajka wrote:
> > There are few big outstanding issues that needs to be solved that need more than individual work, most notably the Go packaging guidelines and tooling. I think that should be one of the first tasks for the SIG.
>
> I'm not looking to join the SIG, but I will share my experience with golang in Fedora.
>
> It appears that packages are being dumped into Fedora and forgotten about.
> I'm trying to package "Packer"[1] and ran into multiple dependencies that
> were committed once and never updated. This has to change.

In my experience, the tough parts about these dependencies that got
forgot about are:

1) they are only dependencies, nobody uses them for anything else;
2) many of them are not versioned upstream (we just have references to
commits)
3) different applications that depend on them may need different
revisions of them.

while solving 3 is part of our duty as packagers (making sure to port the
dependencies to use the latest versions of their dependencies), 2 seems
to be quite common in the golang community...

[Jakub Cajka]

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Athos Ribeiro" 
> To: "Development discussions related to Fedora" 
> Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2018 11:14:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Golang SIG for Fedora
>
> On Thu, Aug 02, 2018 at 02:45:54PM -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
> > On 07/27/2018 08:28 AM, Jakub Cajka wrote:
> > > There are few big outstanding issues that needs to be solved that need
> > >    more than individual work, most notably the Go packaging guidelines
> > >    and tooling. I think that should be one of the first tasks for the
> > >    SIG.
> >
> > I'm not looking to join the SIG, but I will share my experience with golang
> > in Fedora.
> >
> > It appears that packages are being dumped into Fedora and forgotten about.
> > I'm trying to package "Packer"[1] and ran into multiple dependencies that
> > were committed once and never updated. This has to change.
>
> In my experience, the tough parts about these dependencies that got
> forgot about are:
> they are only dependencies, nobody uses them for anything else;

Afaik this only reason that we have so many golang-* package they are "only de-bundled dependencies" for other golang base packages they are not meant to be used as devel packages(for developing application for Fedora). One solution to this would be going back to the bundling which is IMHO much worse. For the record not all packages are debundled, though. Maybe other solution might be if we will be able to drive more people to do the Go packaging, because I don't believe that packagers with 100s of packages will baby sit each of them, they will thereat them more as cattle only looking at then when it is really necessary. Maybe the best solution would be to continue with work that jchaloup has started making the Go packaging in Fedora mostly automated.
> many of them are not versioned upstream (we just have references to
>
> commits)

Afaik also commonly not maintaining API stability...
> different applications that depend on them may need different
>
> revisions of them.
>
> while solving 3 is part of our duty as packagers (making sure to port the
> dependencies to use the latest versions of their dependencies), 2 seems
> to be quite common in the golang community...

Hopefully with upstream work on vgo and other dependency managers will be improvement for this.

JC
> --
> Athos Ribeiro
>
> http://www.ime.usp.br/~athoscr
> _______________________________________________
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[Jakub Cajka]

Thank you very much for your interest.

I will now create SIG wiki page(and let you know to add yourself there), IRC channel(#fedora-golang, making it official). I believe we can use [e-mail] as the mailing list. And as it has been suggested to the container SIG I will create Go group at https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/ for more user faced discussions. Also I have been thinking about having taiga(https://taiga.fedorainfracloud.org), pagure project or alike for issues, idea and work tracking, but I would postpone creating and working on it until after we can meet and discuss it.

With Flock next week, if you will be there please let me know as it would be great to meet up there.

After the Flock I would like to organize meeting of us all. I'm not sure where IRC/or some other platform and when. Could you reply to me off the list with days(ideally between 13-31 of Aug) and time that would best suite you and your preferred way of the meeting(IRC, hangouts, jitsi,...). I think that it would be best to meet on jitsi or other video chat/meeting platform.

JC

[Neal Gompa]

On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 7:51 AM Jakub Cajka  wrote:
> Thank you very much for your interest.
>
> I will now create SIG wiki page(and let you know to add yourself there), IRC channel(#fedora-golang, making it official). I believe we can use [e-mail] as the mailing list. And as it has been suggested to the container SIG I will create Go group at https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/ for more user faced discussions. Also I have been thinking about having taiga(https://taiga.fedorainfracloud.org), pagure project or alike for issues, idea and work tracking, but I would postpone creating and working on it until after we can meet and discuss it.
>
> With Flock next week, if you will be there please let me know as it would be great to meet up there.

I will be at Flock.

[Zachary Snyder]

I will be interested in joining the sig! Frequent GO user and Fedora is my
daily driver. I will not be at flock but I will see everyone on IRC!

Cheers
Zach

On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 9:16 AM Neal Gompa  wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 7:51 AM Jakub Cajka  wrote:
> > Thank you very much for your interest.
> >
> > I will now create SIG wiki page(and let you know to add yourself
>
> there), IRC channel(#fedora-golang, making it official). I believe we can
> use [e-mail] as the mailing list. And as it has
> been suggested to the container SIG I will create Go group at
> https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/ for more user faced discussions.
> Also I have been thinking about having taiga(
> https://taiga.fedorainfracloud.org), pagure project or alike for issues,
> idea and work tracking, but I would postpone creating and working on it
> until after we can meet and discuss it.
> > With Flock next week, if you will be there please let me know as it
>
> would be great to meet up there.
> >
>
> I will be at Flock.
>
> --
> 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!
> _______________________________________________
> devel mailing list -- [e-mail]
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> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]/...

[Athos Ribeiro]

On Fri, Aug 03, 2018 at 09:18:29AM -0400, Zachary Snyder wrote:
> I will be interested in joining the sig! Frequent GO user and Fedora is my
> daily driver. I will not be at flock but I will see everyone on IRC!

I will definitely join the sig as well, since I do maintain a few golang
packages.

[Neal Gompa]

On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 11:27 AM Athos Ribeiro  wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 03, 2018 at 09:18:29AM -0400, Zachary Snyder wrote:
> > I will be interested in joining the sig! Frequent GO user and Fedora is my
> > daily driver. I will not be at flock but I will see everyone on IRC!

I'm interested in joining the SIG, and I wouldn't be surprised if
Zygmunt (my partner in maintaining snapd) is interested as well.

[Zygmunt Krynicki]

W dniu 3.08.2018 o 17:58 Neal Gompa pisze:
> On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 11:27 AM Athos Ribeiro  wrote:
> > On Fri, Aug 03, 2018 at 09:18:29AM -0400, Zachary Snyder wrote:
> > > I will be interested in joining the sig! Frequent GO user and Fedora is my
> > > daily driver. I will not be at flock but I will see everyone on IRC!
>
> I'm interested in joining the SIG, and I wouldn't be surprised if
> Zygmunt (my partner in maintaining snapd) is interested as well.

Yes, count me in please :-)

Best regards
ZK

[Fabio Valentini]

Count me in for the SIG too, since I maintain ~40 golang packages.

Are there plans to create a golang-sig group too, so that group can be
granted access to golang src.fd.org repositories (like the one that
exists for ruby, for example)?

Fabio (decathorpe)
On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 5:27 PM Athos Ribeiro  wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 03, 2018 at 09:18:29AM -0400, Zachary Snyder wrote:
> > I will be interested in joining the sig! Frequent GO user and Fedora is my
> > daily driver. I will not be at flock but I will see everyone on IRC!
>
> I will definitely join the sig as well, since I do maintain a few golang
> packages.
>
> --
> Athos Ribeiro
>
> http://www.ime.usp.br/~athoscr
> _______________________________________________
> devel mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]/...

[Vitor Ramos]

I think that we can mature in the first moment the SIG, and in other moment, channels, groups, and subjects in another moment. An approach about the taiga is about the development of Tools that contemplate the Golang in Fedora Project?

[Ricardo Martinelli Oliveira]

I think we already have tools for that. What I expect with the SIG is
something that could improve the Go Packaging best practices listed in
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingDrafts/Go

On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 9:10 AM, Vitor Ramos  wrote:
> I think that we can mature in the first moment the SIG, and in other moment, channels, groups, and subjects in another moment. An approach about the taiga is about the development of Tools that contemplate the Golang in Fedora Project?
> _______________________________________________
> devel mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
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[Jakub Cajka]

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ricardo Martinelli Oliveira" 
> To: "Development discussions related to Fedora" 
> Sent: Monday, August 6, 2018 3:47:44 PM
> Subject: Re: Golang SIG for Fedora
>
> I think we already have tools for that. What I expect with the SIG is
> something that could improve the Go Packaging best practices listed in
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingDrafts/Go

Yeah, I believe that is one of the most important tasks, but I envision that SIG will be place to kind of pool and share our resources/time/experiences and some issue/work(in addition to the BugZilla and other Fedora standart tools) tacking system could be really helpful. Place where we could put our ideas and nice to have things that we don't have time to work on currently, but not only those. It would also make more apparent to the outside progress of some bigger scope projects like the packaging guidelines.

JC
> On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 9:10 AM, Vitor Ramos  wrote:
> > I think that we can mature in the first moment the SIG, and in other
> > moment, channels, groups, and subjects in another moment. An approach
> > about the taiga is about the development of Tools that contemplate the
> > Golang in Fedora Project?
> > _______________________________________________
> > devel mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
> > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > List Archives:
> > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]/...
>
> devel mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
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> List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]/...

[Jakub Cajka]

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jakub Cajka" 
> To: "nicolas mailhot" , "zebob m" , "ricardo martinelli oliveira"
> , "Jan Chaloupka" , "Derek Parker"
> , "Paul Gier" 
> Cc: [e-mail], "Development discussions related to Fedora" 
> Sent: Friday, August 3, 2018 1:05:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Golang SIG for Fedora
>
> Thank you very much for your interest.
>
> I will now create SIG wiki page(and let you know to add yourself there),
>   IRC channel(#fedora-golang, making it official). I believe we can use
>   [e-mail] as the mailing list. And as it has been
>   suggested to the container SIG I will create Go group at
>   https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/ for more user faced discussions.
>   Also I have been thinking about having
>   taiga(https://taiga.fedorainfracloud.org), pagure project or alike for
>   issues, idea and work tracking, but I would postpone creating and working
>   on it until after we can meet and discuss it.
>
> With Flock next week, if you will be there please let me know as it would
>   be great to meet up there.
>
> After the Flock I would like to organize meeting of us all. I'm not sure
>   where IRC/or some other platform and when. Could you reply to me off the
>   list with days(ideally between 13-31 of Aug) and time that would best
>   suite you and your preferred way of the meeting(IRC, hangouts, jitsi,...).
>   I think that it would be best to meet on jitsi or other video chat/meeting
>   platform.
>
> JC

I have create the SIG page in the wiki https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Go.
Please add yourself in to the members list if you are interested to participate.
If you have any comments or improvements to the SIG page please bring it up or just do it :).

I believe that next step should be meeting where we will share our expectations, etc. Please let me know what would suite you.

JC
> golang mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
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> List Archives:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]...

[Michael Cronenworth]

On 08/09/2018 05:12 AM, Jakub Cajka wrote:
> I have create the SIG page in the wikihttps://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Go.
> Please add yourself in to the members list if you are interested to participate.
> If you have any comments or improvements to the SIG page please bring it up or just do it:).
>
> I believe that next step should be meeting where we will share our expectations, etc. Please let me know what would suite you.

Random Go question: Will you be working to use the Go plugin system instead of 
statically compiling end-user binaries?

It seems against Fedora principals to allow Go into Fedora with the way all Go 
programs are compiled today.

[Jakub Cajka]

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Cronenworth" 
> To: [e-mail]
> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 8:11:07 PM
> Subject: Re: Golang SIG for Fedora
>
> On 08/09/2018 05:12 AM, Jakub Cajka wrote:
> > I have create the SIG page in the
> > wikihttps://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Go.
> > Please add yourself in to the members list if you are interested to
> > participate.
> > If you have any comments or improvements to the SIG page please bring it up
> > or just do it:).
> >
> > I believe that next step should be meeting where we will share our
> > expectations, etc. Please let me know what would suite you.
>
> Random Go question: Will you be working to use the Go plugin system instead
> of
> statically compiling end-user binaries?
>
> It seems against Fedora principals to allow Go into Fedora with the way all
> Go
> programs are compiled today.

I believe that the Go ecosystem is not against the guidelines since like 3y ago(same time I'm around Go). I plugins IMO doesn't make sense in the Fedora for something like equivalent to dynamic linking. I'm for like 2y considering dynamic liking, which unfortunately dosn't make much sense for regular libraries/binaries as most of the projects do not have stable API, but it might make sense for the stdlib as it is fairly stable.

JC
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[Vitor Ramos]

+1
I was just thinking about this topic today. As far as I could follow, there is already a #fedora-golang channel in IRC. But still lacking material on Golang in the SIG (which contrasts with both the project in Golang that exists in the project Fedora), and related. Count me in to help with the documentation:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingDrafts/Go

[Peter Borsa]

Hi!

+1 from me. I'm learning Go but I hope I can help. :)

Best,

Peter
--
Peter Borsa
https://asrob.eu

On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 3:30 PM Vitor Ramos  wrote:
> +1
> I was just thinking about this topic today. As far as I could follow,
> there is already a #fedora-golang channel in IRC. But still lacking
> material on Golang in the SIG (which contrasts with both the project in
> Golang that exists in the project Fedora), and related. Count me in to help
> with the documentation:
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingDrafts/Go
> _______________________________________________
> devel mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives:
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