F26 System Wide Change: Python Classroom Lab

[Jan Kurik]

= System Wide Change: Python Classroom Lab =
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/PythonClassroomLab

Change owner(s):
* Miro Hrončok <mhroncok AT redhat DOT com>
* SIGs/Python <python-devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt;


A new Python Classroom Lab will be created in 3 variants: Workstation
based, Docker based and Vagrant based. It's an important step for our
Fedora Loves Python initiative. The main audience are Python teachers
and workshop instructors.


== Detailed Description ==
A new comps packages group with Python development tools will be
created and a new Lab (or Spin) for teaching Python or Python related
topics will be available from labs.fedoraproject.org as well as from
the Docker Hub and Vagrant Atlas.

A work in progress for the lab is available on GitHub.

The Lab will contain:
* Python 3.6 including the python3-devel package
* Python 2.7 including the python2-devel package
* PyPy 3
* tox
* virtualenv
* IPython console for both Python 2 and 3
* Jupyter Notebook with Python 2 and 3 kernels (if this gets into
Fedora in time)
* offline documentation for Python 2 and 3
* basic toolchain for building C and C++ extensions and valgrind
* git
* nano, vim, ssh client, curl, wget
* devel packages for commonly used dependencies of packages on the
Python Package Index
* * libxml2-devel
* * libyaml-devel
...

The Workstation based lab will also contain:
* Basic GNOME
* Terminal emulator
* Text editor
* PDF reader
* Web browser
* Image viewer
* ...and possibly other utilities

But it will not include multimedia and virtualization support, office
suite, e-mail client.


== Scope ==
Proposal owners:
* create the comps group
* create kickstarts for live and vagrant variants
* create a layer for docker

Other developers:
* Design team: Create an image for labs.fedoraproject.org
* Websites team: Add the new Lab to labs.fedoraproject.org

Release engineering:
List of deliverables:
* Labs/i386/iso/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Live-i386-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.iso
* Labs/x86_64/iso/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Live-x86_64-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.iso
* Labs/armhfp/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-armhfp-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_-sda.raw.xz
*
Labs/i386/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Vagrant-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.i386.vagrant-libvirt.box
*
Labs/i386/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Vagrant-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.i386.vagrant-virtualbox.box
*
Labs/x86_64/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Vagrant-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.x86_64.vagrant-libvirt.box
*
Labs/x86_64/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Vagrant-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.x86_64.vagrant-virtualbox.box
* docker images via Fedora Docker Layered image build service

Policies and guidelines: nothing

Trademark approval: waiting
-- 
Jan Kuřík
Platform & Fedora Program Manager
Red Hat Czech s.r.o., Purkynova 99/71, 612 45 Brno, Czech Republic

[Amit Saha]

Hello Jan,

The Fedora Scientific spin already includes most  of the Python 3 packages
you are looking at. Is it worth looking at that instead of a new spin? I am
happy to change it to use GNOME instead of KDE.



Have you though
On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 at 6:31 pm, Jan Kurik <jkurik(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:

>  = System Wide Change: Python Classroom Lab =
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/PythonClassroomLab
>
>  Change owner(s):
>  * Miro Hrončok <mhroncok AT redhat DOT com>
>  * SIGs/Python <python-devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt;
>
>
>  A new Python Classroom Lab will be created in 3 variants: Workstation
>  based, Docker based and Vagrant based. It's an important step for our
>  Fedora Loves Python initiative. The main audience are Python teachers
>  and workshop instructors.
>
>
>  == Detailed Description ==
>  A new comps packages group with Python development tools will be
>  created and a new Lab (or Spin) for teaching Python or Python related
>  topics will be available from labs.fedoraproject.org as well as from
>  the Docker Hub and Vagrant Atlas.
>
>  A work in progress for the lab is available on GitHub.
>
>  The Lab will contain:
>  * Python 3.6 including the python3-devel package
>  * Python 2.7 including the python2-devel package
>  * PyPy 3
>  * tox
>  * virtualenv
>  * IPython console for both Python 2 and 3
>  * Jupyter Notebook with Python 2 and 3 kernels (if this gets into
>  Fedora in time)
>  * offline documentation for Python 2 and 3
>  * basic toolchain for building C and C++ extensions and valgrind
>  * git
>  * nano, vim, ssh client, curl, wget
>  * devel packages for commonly used dependencies of packages on the
>  Python Package Index
>  * * libxml2-devel
>  * * libyaml-devel
>  ...
>
>  The Workstation based lab will also contain:
>  * Basic GNOME
>  * Terminal emulator
>  * Text editor
>  * PDF reader
>  * Web browser
>  * Image viewer
>  * ...and possibly other utilities
>
>  But it will not include multimedia and virtualization support, office
>  suite, e-mail client.
>
>
>  == Scope ==
>  Proposal owners:
>  * create the comps group
>  * create kickstarts for live and vagrant variants
>  * create a layer for docker
>
>  Other developers:
>  * Design team: Create an image for labs.fedoraproject.org
>  * Websites team: Add the new Lab to labs.fedoraproject.org
>
>  Release engineering:
>  List of deliverables:
>  * Labs/i386/iso/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Live-i386-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.iso
>  *
>  Labs/x86_64/iso/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Live-x86_64-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.iso
>  *
>  Labs/armhfp/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-armhfp-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_-sda.raw.xz
>  *
>
> Labs/i386/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Vagrant-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.i386.vagrant-libvirt.box
>  *
>
> Labs/i386/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Vagrant-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.i386.vagrant-virtualbox.box
>  *
>
> Labs/x86_64/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Vagrant-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.x86_64.vagrant-libvirt.box
>  *
>
> Labs/x86_64/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Vagrant-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.x86_64.vagrant-virtualbox.box
>  * docker images via Fedora Docker Layered image build service
>
>  Policies and guidelines: nothing
>
>  Trademark approval: waiting
>  --
>  Jan Kuřík
>  Platform & Fedora Program Manager
>  Red Hat Czech s.r.o., Purkynova 99/71, 612 45 Brno, Czech Republic
>  _______________________________________________
>  devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  
-- 
http://echorand.me

[Miro Hrončok]

On 31.1.2017 09:13, Amit Saha wrote:
>  Hello Jan,
>
>  The Fedora Scientific spin already includes most  of the Python 3
>  packages you are looking at. Is it worth looking at that instead of a
>  new spin? I am happy to change it to use GNOME instead of KDE. 
Hi. It's not about GNOME/KDE, it's about main purpose of such lab and 
also marketing. Compare:

>  Use Fedora for teaching Python, it has a Python Clasroom Lab 
available just for that!

With:

>  Use Fedora for teaching Python, it has a Scientific Spin that happens
>  
to have all the Python 3 tools needed!

>  Have you though
>  On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 at 6:31 pm, Jan Kurik <jkurik(a)redhat.com
>  <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>
>      = System Wide Change: Python Classroom Lab =
>      https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/PythonClassroomLab
>
>      Change owner(s):
>      * Miro Hrončok <mhroncok AT redhat DOT com>
>      * SIGs/Python <python-devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>      <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>
>
>      A new Python Classroom Lab will be created in 3 variants: Workstation
>      based, Docker based and Vagrant based. It's an important step for our
>      Fedora Loves Python initiative. The main audience are Python teachers
>      and workshop instructors.
>
>
>      == Detailed Description ==
>      A new comps packages group with Python development tools will be
>      created and a new Lab (or Spin) for teaching Python or Python related
>      topics will be available from labs.fedoraproject.org
>      <http://labs.fedoraproject.org> as well as from
>      the Docker Hub and Vagrant Atlas.
>
>      A work in progress for the lab is available on GitHub.
>
>      The Lab will contain:
>      * Python 3.6 including the python3-devel package
>      * Python 2.7 including the python2-devel package
>      * PyPy 3
>      * tox
>      * virtualenv
>      * IPython console for both Python 2 and 3
>      * Jupyter Notebook with Python 2 and 3 kernels (if this gets into
>      Fedora in time)
>      * offline documentation for Python 2 and 3
>      * basic toolchain for building C and C++ extensions and valgrind
>      * git
>      * nano, vim, ssh client, curl, wget
>      * devel packages for commonly used dependencies of packages on the
>      Python Package Index
>      * * libxml2-devel
>      * * libyaml-devel
>      ...
>
>      The Workstation based lab will also contain:
>      * Basic GNOME
>      * Terminal emulator
>      * Text editor
>      * PDF reader
>      * Web browser
>      * Image viewer
>      * ...and possibly other utilities
>
>      But it will not include multimedia and virtualization support, office
>      suite, e-mail client.
>
>
>      == Scope ==
>      Proposal owners:
>      * create the comps group
>      * create kickstarts for live and vagrant variants
>      * create a layer for docker
>
>      Other developers:
>      * Design team: Create an image for labs.fedoraproject.org
>      <http://labs.fedoraproject.org>
>      * Websites team: Add the new Lab to labs.fedoraproject.org
>      <http://labs.fedoraproject.org>
>
>      Release engineering:
>      List of deliverables:
>      *
>      Labs/i386/iso/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Live-i386-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.iso
>      *
>      Labs/x86_64/iso/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Live-x86_64-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.iso
>      *
>      Labs/armhfp/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-armhfp-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_-sda.raw.xz
>      *
>     
> Labs/i386/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Vagrant-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.i386.vagrant-libvirt.box
>      *
>     
> Labs/i386/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Vagrant-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.i386.vagrant-virtualbox.box
>      *
>     
> Labs/x86_64/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Vagrant-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.x86_64.vagrant-libvirt.box
>      *
>     
> Labs/x86_64/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Vagrant-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.x86_64.vagrant-virtualbox.box
>      * docker images via Fedora Docker Layered image build service
>
>      Policies and guidelines: nothing
>
>      Trademark approval: waiting
>      --
>      Jan Kuřík
>      Platform & Fedora Program Manager
>      Red Hat Czech s.r.o., Purkynova 99/71, 612 45 Brno, Czech Republic
>      _______________________________________________
>      devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>      <mailto:[e-mail]>
>      To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>      <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>  --
>  http://echorand.me
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  
-- 
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: [phone]
IRC: mhroncok

[Brian Exelbierd]

>  On Jan 31, 2017, at 1:16 PM, Miro Hrončok <mhroncok(a)redhat.com&gt;
> wrote:
>  
> > On 31.1.2017 09:13, Amit Saha wrote:
> > Hello Jan,
> > 
> > The Fedora Scientific spin already includes most  of the Python 3
> > packages you are looking at. Is it worth looking at that instead of a
> > new spin? I am happy to change it to use GNOME instead of KDE.
>  
>  Hi. It's not about GNOME/KDE, it's about main purpose of such lab and also
> marketing. Compare:
>  
>  > Use Fedora for teaching Python, it has a Python Clasroom Lab available just for
> that!
>  
>  With:
>  
>  > Use Fedora for teaching Python, it has a Scientific Spin that happens to have all
> the Python 3 tools needed! 
Phrased this way I agree with you. However, I think your wording is pretty harsh. I'm
on a plane right now so I don't have the Scientific Spin marketing message in hand,
but I think you could say:

Teaching or learning python, the Fedora Scientific Spin is a great way to easily have all
the tools you need. It also supports additional educational options with the included
science components. 

Before pushing on this I'd like to see the Scientific Spin's build size.  

Regards,

bex



>  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Have you though
> > On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 at 6:31 pm, Jan Kurik <jkurik(a)redhat.com
> > <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
> > 
> >    = System Wide Change: Python Classroom Lab =
> >    https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/PythonClassroomLab
> > 
> >    Change owner(s):
> >    * Miro Hrončok <mhroncok AT redhat DOT com>
> >    * SIGs/Python <python-devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> >    <mailto:[e-mail]>>
> > 
> > 
> >    A new Python Classroom Lab will be created in 3 variants: Workstation
> >    based, Docker based and Vagrant based. It's an important step for our
> >    Fedora Loves Python initiative. The main audience are Python teachers
> >    and workshop instructors.
> > 
> > 
> >    == Detailed Description ==
> >    A new comps packages group with Python development tools will be
> >    created and a new Lab (or Spin) for teaching Python or Python related
> >    topics will be available from labs.fedoraproject.org
> >    <http://labs.fedoraproject.org> as well as from
> >    the Docker Hub and Vagrant Atlas.
> > 
> >    A work in progress for the lab is available on GitHub.
> > 
> >    The Lab will contain:
> >    * Python 3.6 including the python3-devel package
> >    * Python 2.7 including the python2-devel package
> >    * PyPy 3
> >    * tox
> >    * virtualenv
> >    * IPython console for both Python 2 and 3
> >    * Jupyter Notebook with Python 2 and 3 kernels (if this gets into
> >    Fedora in time)
> >    * offline documentation for Python 2 and 3
> >    * basic toolchain for building C and C++ extensions and valgrind
> >    * git
> >    * nano, vim, ssh client, curl, wget
> >    * devel packages for commonly used dependencies of packages on the
> >    Python Package Index
> >    * * libxml2-devel
> >    * * libyaml-devel
> >    ...
> > 
> >    The Workstation based lab will also contain:
> >    * Basic GNOME
> >    * Terminal emulator
> >    * Text editor
> >    * PDF reader
> >    * Web browser
> >    * Image viewer
> >    * ...and possibly other utilities
> > 
> >    But it will not include multimedia and virtualization support, office
> >    suite, e-mail client.
> > 
> > 
> >    == Scope ==
> >    Proposal owners:
> >    * create the comps group
> >    * create kickstarts for live and vagrant variants
> >    * create a layer for docker
> > 
> >    Other developers:
> >    * Design team: Create an image for labs.fedoraproject.org
> >    <http://labs.fedoraproject.org>
> >    * Websites team: Add the new Lab to labs.fedoraproject.org
> >    <http://labs.fedoraproject.org>
> > 
> >    Release engineering:
> >    List of deliverables:
> >    *
> >    Labs/i386/iso/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Live-i386-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.iso
> >    *
> >    Labs/x86_64/iso/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Live-x86_64-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.iso
> >    *
> >    Labs/armhfp/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-armhfp-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_-sda.raw.xz
> >    *
> >   
> Labs/i386/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Vagrant-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.i386.vagrant-libvirt.box
> >    *
> >   
> Labs/i386/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Vagrant-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.i386.vagrant-virtualbox.box
> >    *
> >   
> Labs/x86_64/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Vagrant-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.x86_64.vagrant-libvirt.box
> >    *
> >   
> Labs/x86_64/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Vagrant-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.x86_64.vagrant-virtualbox.box
> >    * docker images via Fedora Docker Layered image build service
> > 
> >    Policies and guidelines: nothing
> > 
> >    Trademark approval: waiting
> >    --
> >    Jan Kuřík
> >    Platform & Fedora Program Manager
> >    Red Hat Czech s.r.o., Purkynova 99/71, 612 45 Brno, Czech Republic
> >    _______________________________________________
> >    devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> >    <mailto:[e-mail]>
> >    To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> >    <mailto:[e-mail]>
> > 
> > --
> > http://echorand.me
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> > 
>  
>  -- 
>  Miro Hrončok
>  --
>  Phone: [phone]
>  IRC: mhroncok
>  _______________________________________________
>  devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org

[Amit Saha]

On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 at 5:20 am, Brian (bex) Exelbierd <bex(a)pobox.com&gt; wrote:

>  > On Jan 31, 2017, at 1:16 PM, Miro Hrončok <mhroncok(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  >
>  >> On 31.1.2017 09:13, Amit Saha wrote:
>  >> Hello Jan,
>  >>
>  >> The Fedora Scientific spin already includes most  of the Python 3
>  >> packages you are looking at. Is it worth looking at that instead of a
>  >> new spin? I am happy to change it to use GNOME instead of KDE.
>  >
>  > Hi. It's not about GNOME/KDE, it's about main purpose of such lab and
>  also marketing. Compare:
>  >
>  > > Use Fedora for teaching Python, it has a Python Clasroom Lab available
>  just for that!
>  >
>  > With:
>  >
>  > > Use Fedora for teaching Python, it has a Scientific Spin that happens
>  to have all the Python 3 tools needed!
>
>  Phrased this way I agree with you. However, I think your wording is pretty
>  harsh. I'm on a plane right now so I don't have the Scientific Spin
>  marketing message in hand, but I think you could say:
>
>  Teaching or learning python, the Fedora Scientific Spin is a great way to
>  easily have all the tools you need. It also supports additional educational
>  options with the included science components.
>
>  Before pushing on this I'd like to see the Scientific Spin's build size. 


As the maintainer of this spin, I would be to discuss any changes to be
suitable for meeting the needs of both target audiences.



>  Regards,
>
>  bex
>
>
>
>  >
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> Have you though
>  >> On Tue, 31 Jan 2017 at 6:31 pm, Jan Kurik <jkurik(a)redhat.com
>  >> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>  >>
>  >>    = System Wide Change: Python Classroom Lab =
>  >>    https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/PythonClassroomLab
>  >>
>  >>    Change owner(s):
>  >>    * Miro Hrončok <mhroncok AT redhat DOT com>
>  >>    * SIGs/Python <python-devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  >>    <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>    A new Python Classroom Lab will be created in 3 variants: Workstation
>  >>    based, Docker based and Vagrant based. It's an important step for our
>  >>    Fedora Loves Python initiative. The main audience are Python teachers
>  >>    and workshop instructors.
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>    == Detailed Description ==
>  >>    A new comps packages group with Python development tools will be
>  >>    created and a new Lab (or Spin) for teaching Python or Python related
>  >>    topics will be available from labs.fedoraproject.org
>  >>    <http://labs.fedoraproject.org> as well as from
>  >>    the Docker Hub and Vagrant Atlas.
>  >>
>  >>    A work in progress for the lab is available on GitHub.
>  >>
>  >>    The Lab will contain:
>  >>    * Python 3.6 including the python3-devel package
>  >>    * Python 2.7 including the python2-devel package
>  >>    * PyPy 3
>  >>    * tox
>  >>    * virtualenv
>  >>    * IPython console for both Python 2 and 3
>  >>    * Jupyter Notebook with Python 2 and 3 kernels (if this gets into
>  >>    Fedora in time)
>  >>    * offline documentation for Python 2 and 3
>  >>    * basic toolchain for building C and C++ extensions and valgrind
>  >>    * git
>  >>    * nano, vim, ssh client, curl, wget
>  >>    * devel packages for commonly used dependencies of packages on the
>  >>    Python Package Index
>  >>    * * libxml2-devel
>  >>    * * libyaml-devel
>  >>    ...
>  >>
>  >>    The Workstation based lab will also contain:
>  >>    * Basic GNOME
>  >>    * Terminal emulator
>  >>    * Text editor
>  >>    * PDF reader
>  >>    * Web browser
>  >>    * Image viewer
>  >>    * ...and possibly other utilities
>  >>
>  >>    But it will not include multimedia and virtualization support, office
>  >>    suite, e-mail client.
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>    == Scope ==
>  >>    Proposal owners:
>  >>    * create the comps group
>  >>    * create kickstarts for live and vagrant variants
>  >>    * create a layer for docker
>  >>
>  >>    Other developers:
>  >>    * Design team: Create an image for labs.fedoraproject.org
>  >>    <http://labs.fedoraproject.org>
>  >>    * Websites team: Add the new Lab to labs.fedoraproject.org
>  >>    <http://labs.fedoraproject.org>
>  >>
>  >>    Release engineering:
>  >>    List of deliverables:
>  >>    *
>  >>
>  Labs/i386/iso/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Live-i386-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.iso
>  >>    *
>  >>
>  Labs/x86_64/iso/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Live-x86_64-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.iso
>  >>    *
>  >>
>  Labs/armhfp/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-armhfp-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_-sda.raw.xz
>  >>    *
>  >>
>
> Labs/i386/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Vagrant-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.i386.vagrant-libvirt.box
>  >>    *
>  >>
>
> Labs/i386/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Vagrant-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.i386.vagrant-virtualbox.box
>  >>    *
>  >>
>
> Labs/x86_64/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Vagrant-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.x86_64.vagrant-libvirt.box
>  >>    *
>  >>
>
> Labs/x86_64/images/Fedora-Python-Classroom-Vagrant-_RELEASE_MILESTONE_.x86_64.vagrant-virtualbox.box
>  >>    * docker images via Fedora Docker Layered image build service
>  >>
>  >>    Policies and guidelines: nothing
>  >>
>  >>    Trademark approval: waiting
>  >>    --
>  >>    Jan Kuřík
>  >>    Platform & Fedora Program Manager
>  >>    Red Hat Czech s.r.o., Purkynova 99/71, 612 45 Brno, Czech Republic
>  >>    _______________________________________________
>  >>    devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  >>    <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  >>    To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  >>    <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  >>
>  >> --
>  >> http://echorand.me
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> _______________________________________________
>  >> devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  >> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  >>
>  >
>  > --
>  > Miro Hrončok
>  > --
>  > Phone: [phone]
>  > IRC: mhroncok
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-- 
http://echorand.me

[Stephen Gallagher]

On 01/31/2017 02:29 AM, Jan Kurik wrote:
>  = System Wide Change: Python Classroom Lab =
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/PythonClassroomLab
>  
>  Change owner(s):
>  * Miro Hrončok <mhroncok AT redhat DOT com>
>  * SIGs/Python <python-devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt;
>  
>  
>  A new Python Classroom Lab will be created in 3 variants: Workstation
>  based, Docker based and Vagrant based. It's an important step for our
>  Fedora Loves Python initiative. The main audience are Python teachers
>  and workshop instructors.
>  
>  
>  == Detailed Description ==
>  A new comps packages group with Python development tools will be
>  created and a new Lab (or Spin) for teaching Python or Python related
>  topics will be available from labs.fedoraproject.org as well as from
>  the Docker Hub and Vagrant Atlas.
>  
>  A work in progress for the lab is available on GitHub.
>  
>  The Lab will contain:
>  * Python 3.6 including the python3-devel package
>  * Python 2.7 including the python2-devel package
>  * PyPy 3
>  * tox
>  * virtualenv
>  * IPython console for both Python 2 and 3
>  * Jupyter Notebook with Python 2 and 3 kernels (if this gets into
>  Fedora in time)
>  * offline documentation for Python 2 and 3
>  * basic toolchain for building C and C++ extensions and valgrind
>  * git
>  * nano, vim, ssh client, curl, wget
>  * devel packages for commonly used dependencies of packages on the
>  Python Package Index
>  * * libxml2-devel
>  * * libyaml-devel
>  ...
>  
>  The Workstation based lab will also contain:
>  * Basic GNOME
>  * Terminal emulator
>  * Text editor
>  * PDF reader
>  * Web browser
>  * Image viewer
>  * ...and possibly other utilities
>  
>  But it will not include multimedia and virtualization support, office
>  suite, e-mail client.
>   


What's the advantage here vs. providing a "Python Classroom Lab" install
target
in GNOME Software that allows you to turn any Fedora Workstation installation
into a Classroom Lab?

Is there a specific reason you do NOT want the things you listed above?

[Miro Hrončok]

On 1.2.2017 16:31, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
>  On 01/31/2017 02:29 AM, Jan Kurik wrote:
> > = System Wide Change: Python Classroom Lab =
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/PythonClassroomLab
> >
> > Change owner(s):
> > * Miro Hrončok <mhroncok AT redhat DOT com>
> > * SIGs/Python <python-devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> >  
> >
> > A new Python Classroom Lab will be created in 3 variants: Workstation
> > based, Docker based and Vagrant based. It's an important step for our
> > Fedora Loves Python initiative. The main audience are Python teachers
> > and workshop instructors.
> >  
> > == Detailed Description ==
> > A new comps packages group with Python development tools will be
> > created and a new Lab (or Spin) for teaching Python or Python related
> > topics will be available from labs.fedoraproject.org as well as from
> > the Docker Hub and Vagrant Atlas.
> >
> > A work in progress for the lab is available on GitHub.
> >
> > The Lab will contain:
> > * Python 3.6 including the python3-devel package
> > * Python 2.7 including the python2-devel package
> > * PyPy 3
> > * tox
> > * virtualenv
> > * IPython console for both Python 2 and 3
> > * Jupyter Notebook with Python 2 and 3 kernels (if this gets into
> > Fedora in time)
> > * offline documentation for Python 2 and 3
> > * basic toolchain for building C and C++ extensions and valgrind
> > * git
> > * nano, vim, ssh client, curl, wget
> > * devel packages for commonly used dependencies of packages on the
> > Python Package Index
> > * * libxml2-devel
> > * * libyaml-devel
> > ...
> >
> > The Workstation based lab will also contain:
> > * Basic GNOME
> > * Terminal emulator
> > * Text editor
> > * PDF reader
> > * Web browser
> > * Image viewer
> > * ...and possibly other utilities
> >
> > But it will not include multimedia and virtualization support, office
> > suite, e-mail client.
> >
>
>
>
>  What's the advantage here vs. providing a "Python Classroom Lab" install
> target
>  in GNOME Software that allows you to turn any Fedora Workstation installation
>  into a Classroom Lab? 
1) The other two deliverables listed in the change proposal.
2) The ability to download an live iso and dd it to a flash drive, hand 
it over to students and just works (i.e. also offline)

>  Is there a specific reason you do NOT want the things you listed
> above? 
Yes. Make it smaller - it's a classroom lab, so no need for stuff like 
e-mail client.

>  
-- 
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: [phone]
IRC: mhroncok

[Stephen Gallagher]

On 02/01/2017 10:34 AM, Miro Hrončok wrote:
>  On 1.2.2017 16:31, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> > On 01/31/2017 02:29 AM, Jan Kurik wrote:
> >> = System Wide Change: Python Classroom Lab =
> >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/PythonClassroomLab
> >>
> >> Change owner(s):
> >> * Miro Hrončok <mhroncok AT redhat DOT com>
> >> * SIGs/Python <python-devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt;
> >>
> >>
> >> A new Python Classroom Lab will be created in 3 variants: Workstation
> >> based, Docker based and Vagrant based. It's an important step for our
> >> Fedora Loves Python initiative. The main audience are Python teachers
> >> and workshop instructors.
> >>
> >>
> >> == Detailed Description ==
> >> A new comps packages group with Python development tools will be
> >> created and a new Lab (or Spin) for teaching Python or Python related
> >> topics will be available from labs.fedoraproject.org as well as from
> >> the Docker Hub and Vagrant Atlas.
> >>
> >> A work in progress for the lab is available on GitHub.
> >>
> >> The Lab will contain:
> >> * Python 3.6 including the python3-devel package
> >> * Python 2.7 including the python2-devel package
> >> * PyPy 3
> >> * tox
> >> * virtualenv
> >> * IPython console for both Python 2 and 3
> >> * Jupyter Notebook with Python 2 and 3 kernels (if this gets into
> >> Fedora in time)
> >> * offline documentation for Python 2 and 3
> >> * basic toolchain for building C and C++ extensions and valgrind
> >> * git
> >> * nano, vim, ssh client, curl, wget
> >> * devel packages for commonly used dependencies of packages on the
> >> Python Package Index
> >> * * libxml2-devel
> >> * * libyaml-devel
> >> ...
> >>
> >> The Workstation based lab will also contain:
> >> * Basic GNOME
> >> * Terminal emulator
> >> * Text editor
> >> * PDF reader
> >> * Web browser
> >> * Image viewer
> >> * ...and possibly other utilities
> >>
> >> But it will not include multimedia and virtualization support, office
> >> suite, e-mail client.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > What's the advantage here vs. providing a "Python Classroom Lab"
> install target
> > in GNOME Software that allows you to turn any Fedora Workstation installation
> > into a Classroom Lab?
>  
>  1) The other two deliverables listed in the change proposal.
>  2) The ability to download an live iso and dd it to a flash drive, hand it over
>  to students and just works (i.e. also offline)
>  
> > Is there a specific reason you do NOT want the things you listed above?
>  Yes. Make it smaller - it's a classroom lab, so no need for stuff like e-mail
>  client.
>   
OK, I see why providing a Spin makes sense, but I'd still really like to see it
*also* provided as a GNOME Software install target. That way, people running
Fedora today can have an easy way to play with it without having to figure out
how to install a comps group or boot an entirely new installer.

[Miro Hrončok]

On 1.2.2017 16:38, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
>  On 02/01/2017 10:34 AM, Miro Hrončok wrote:
> > On 1.2.2017 16:31, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> >> On 01/31/2017 02:29 AM, Jan Kurik wrote:
> >>> = System Wide Change: Python Classroom Lab =
> >>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/PythonClassroomLab
> >>>
> >>> Change owner(s):
> >>> * Miro Hrončok <mhroncok AT redhat DOT com>
> >>> * SIGs/Python <python-devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt;
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> A new Python Classroom Lab will be created in 3 variants: Workstation
> >>> based, Docker based and Vagrant based. It's an important step for our
> >>> Fedora Loves Python initiative. The main audience are Python teachers
> >>> and workshop instructors.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> == Detailed Description ==
> >>> A new comps packages group with Python development tools will be
> >>> created and a new Lab (or Spin) for teaching Python or Python related
> >>> topics will be available from labs.fedoraproject.org as well as from
> >>> the Docker Hub and Vagrant Atlas.
> >>>
> >>> A work in progress for the lab is available on GitHub.
> >>>
> >>> The Lab will contain:
> >>> * Python 3.6 including the python3-devel package
> >>> * Python 2.7 including the python2-devel package
> >>> * PyPy 3
> >>> * tox
> >>> * virtualenv
> >>> * IPython console for both Python 2 and 3
> >>> * Jupyter Notebook with Python 2 and 3 kernels (if this gets into
> >>> Fedora in time)
> >>> * offline documentation for Python 2 and 3
> >>> * basic toolchain for building C and C++ extensions and valgrind
> >>> * git
> >>> * nano, vim, ssh client, curl, wget
> >>> * devel packages for commonly used dependencies of packages on the
> >>> Python Package Index
> >>> * * libxml2-devel
> >>> * * libyaml-devel
> >>> ...
> >>>
> >>> The Workstation based lab will also contain:
> >>> * Basic GNOME
> >>> * Terminal emulator
> >>> * Text editor
> >>> * PDF reader
> >>> * Web browser
> >>> * Image viewer
> >>> * ...and possibly other utilities
> >>>
> >>> But it will not include multimedia and virtualization support, office
> >>> suite, e-mail client.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> What's the advantage here vs. providing a "Python Classroom Lab"
> install target
> >> in GNOME Software that allows you to turn any Fedora Workstation installation
> >> into a Classroom Lab?
> >
> > 1) The other two deliverables listed in the change proposal.
> > 2) The ability to download an live iso and dd it to a flash drive, hand it over
> > to students and just works (i.e. also offline)
> >
> >> Is there a specific reason you do NOT want the things you listed above?
> > Yes. Make it smaller - it's a classroom lab, so no need for stuff like e-mail
> > client.
> >
>
>  OK, I see why providing a Spin makes sense, but I'd still really like to see it
>  *also* provided as a GNOME Software install target. That way, people running
>  Fedora today can have an easy way to play with it without having to figure out
>  how to install a comps group or boot an entirely new installer. 
As long as it is technically possible... could you please provide a link 
to the relevant documentation?

-- 
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: [phone]
IRC: mhroncok

[Neal Gompa]

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Stephen Gallagher <sgallagh(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  What's the advantage here vs. providing a "Python Classroom Lab" install
> target
>  in GNOME Software that allows you to turn any Fedora Workstation installation
>  into a Classroom Lab?
>  
GNOME Software can't do that. As far as I know, there's no
way to expose installable groups in GNOME Software. Apper (in KDE) has
some capability for it, but the PackageKit backend (dnf backend) has
no support for it because it was not implemented because GNOME
Software has no support for groups.



-- 
真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!

[Stephen Gallagher]

On 02/01/2017 10:34 AM, Neal Gompa wrote:
>  On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Stephen Gallagher
> <sgallagh(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
> >
> > What's the advantage here vs. providing a "Python Classroom Lab"
> install target
> > in GNOME Software that allows you to turn any Fedora Workstation installation
> > into a Classroom Lab?
> >
>  
>  GNOME Software can't do that. As far as I know, there's no
>  way to expose installable groups in GNOME Software. Apper (in KDE) has
>  some capability for it, but the PackageKit backend (dnf backend) has
>  no support for it because it was not implemented because GNOME
>  Software has no support for groups.
>   
Sure it can; you just create a metapackage that Requires/Recommends: all of the
members of the comps group and add AppData XML and a logo to that metapackage.

[Matthew Miller]

On Wed, Feb 01, 2017 at 10:40:27AM -0500, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
>  Sure it can; you just create a metapackage that Requires/Recommends:
>  all of the members of the comps group and add AppData XML and a logo
>  to that metapackage. 
It would be nice to have a feature like this in Software where we could
make this a top-level "Fedora software sets" (or, I guess, "Fedora
Labs") section. I'll talk to the developers about it.


-- 
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
Fedora Project Leader

[Josh Boyer]

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 10:40 AM, Stephen Gallagher <sgallagh(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  On 02/01/2017 10:34 AM, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Stephen Gallagher <sgallagh(a)redhat.com&gt;
> wrote:
> >>
> >> What's the advantage here vs. providing a "Python Classroom Lab"
> install target
> >> in GNOME Software that allows you to turn any Fedora Workstation installation
> >> into a Classroom Lab?
> >>
> >
> > GNOME Software can't do that. As far as I know, there's no
> > way to expose installable groups in GNOME Software. Apper (in KDE) has
> > some capability for it, but the PackageKit backend (dnf backend) has
> > no support for it because it was not implemented because GNOME
> > Software has no support for groups.
> >
>
>  Sure it can; you just create a metapackage that Requires/Recommends: all of the
>  members of the comps group and add AppData XML and a logo to that metapackage. 
Um... that sounds like a hack to work around the fact that GNOME
Software doesn't have support for groups.  I'm not sure that
suggestion is fixing the right problem.

josh

[Stephen Gallagher]

On 02/02/2017 07:13 AM, Josh Boyer wrote:
>  On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 10:40 AM, Stephen Gallagher
> <sgallagh(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
> > On 02/01/2017 10:34 AM, Neal Gompa wrote:
> >> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Stephen Gallagher <sgallagh(a)redhat.com&gt;
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> What's the advantage here vs. providing a "Python Classroom
> Lab" install target
> >>> in GNOME Software that allows you to turn any Fedora Workstation
> installation
> >>> into a Classroom Lab?
> >>>
> >>
> >> GNOME Software can't do that. As far as I know, there's no
> >> way to expose installable groups in GNOME Software. Apper (in KDE) has
> >> some capability for it, but the PackageKit backend (dnf backend) has
> >> no support for it because it was not implemented because GNOME
> >> Software has no support for groups.
> >>
> >
> > Sure it can; you just create a metapackage that Requires/Recommends: all of the
> > members of the comps group and add AppData XML and a logo to that metapackage.
>  
>  Um... that sounds like a hack to work around the fact that GNOME
>  Software doesn't have support for groups.  I'm not sure that
>  suggestion is fixing the right problem.
>   
Well, I'm not sure it *can* be solved without a master package, because
something needs to provide AppData and logos.

[Ms Sanchez]

Hi,

Why not using Yumex DNF?  It does have support for group install and 
it's very light and fast. Also is easier to find packages in it.

Just a suggestion.

Cheers, Sylvia


On 02/02/17 12:13, Josh Boyer wrote:
>  On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 10:40 AM, Stephen Gallagher
> <sgallagh(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
> > On 02/01/2017 10:34 AM, Neal Gompa wrote:
> >> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Stephen Gallagher <sgallagh(a)redhat.com&gt;
> wrote:
> >>> What's the advantage here vs. providing a "Python Classroom
> Lab" install target
> >>> in GNOME Software that allows you to turn any Fedora Workstation
> installation
> >>> into a Classroom Lab?
> >>>
> >> GNOME Software can't do that. As far as I know, there's no
> >> way to expose installable groups in GNOME Software. Apper (in KDE) has
> >> some capability for it, but the PackageKit backend (dnf backend) has
> >> no support for it because it was not implemented because GNOME
> >> Software has no support for groups.
> >>
> > Sure it can; you just create a metapackage that Requires/Recommends: all of the
> > members of the comps group and add AppData XML and a logo to that metapackage.
>  Um... that sounds like a hack to work around the fact that GNOME
>  Software doesn't have support for groups.  I'm not sure that
>  suggestion is fixing the right problem.
>
>  josh
>  _______________________________________________
>  devel mailing list -- devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org