Since this thread didn't move anywhere I would appreciate being able to refer people to the page again, with the original content. The current state is a misleading lie.

If anyone would like to discuss this further, I suggest raising a ticket or complaint with Council, to determine or clarify what content should be on the developer portal - it seems unclear. Until such decision is made, I am strongly against anything being censored for any reason.


Radka Janeková
.NET & OpenShift Engineer, Red Hat
IRC: radka | Freenode: Rhea

On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 11:06 AM, Pavel Valena <> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Neal Gompa" <>
> To: "Radka Janekova" <>
> Cc: "Pavel Valena" <>, "Brian Exelbierd" <>, "Justin W. Flory"
> <>,
> Sent: Sunday, November 5, 2017 12:46:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [Developer-portal] Re: FDP release and statistics 10/2017: C# IDEs and Mono updates; Python, Docker and
> Haskell fixes
> On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 6:40 AM, Neal Gompa <> wrote:
> > On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 5:22 AM, Radka Janekova <>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I will *not* give in to FLOSS-Extremism[1] and I will *not* censor any
> >> information from the user. If JetBrains Rider is the best IDE, I will tell
> >> the whole world about it without any bias, while merely pointing out that
> >> it's not open source. The developer portal page was well written pointing
> >> out that fact, while ordering the IDE's by unbiased usefulness score.
> >> Removing Rider from the developer page is effectively undoing months of my
> >> work in the bigger picture of the whole effort.
> >>
> >
> > What? I'm not telling you to shut up about Rider. I'm sure Rider is a nice
> > IDE. I personally use CLion for some of my C/C++ projects, though since
> > most
> > of my projects are Python, I use PyCharm quite a bit. But the focus of
> > Fedora Developer Portal is showing how to use tools in Fedora to do awesome
> > things. And to date, none of the JetBrains IDEs (even my favored PyCharm,
> > which is open source) are available in Fedora. PyCharm is not mentioned in
> > the Fedora Developer Portal for Python for exactly that reason. Neither is
> > IntelliJ IDEA for Java. Same goes for Android development using Eclipse or
> > Android Studio, as neither the Android SDK nor the associated IDE/IDE
> > components are packaged in Fedora.

I'd love to see some pages/mentions for those IDEs too (while explicitly stated that they're proprietary solutions). It's the 'developer' we care about foremost (more below).

> Self-correction: Android development is briefly mentioned in the
> Developer Portal, specifically with Android Studio.
> C.f:
> It's only mildly annoying, as all of that code for development is FOSS
> and could be made available in Fedora proper. But if I am to apply the
> same standard I did to C# to this, that would need to be removed until
> someone is willing to bring that stuff into Fedora. I am okay with
> this, but I imagine someone else is going to get annoyed at me for
> that standard (even though that's what the Developer Portal is
> supposed to be about).

I'd like to stress once more, that the advertised software ('mentioned') does not have to be *in* Fedora.
Provided it works (enhances developers' experience) on Fedora, and is reasonably packaged/distributed. F.e. 'copr', RPM Fusion, PyPI[1], etc.. Although packaging the recommended SW into Fedora is preferred, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a good recommendation for a developer.


----- Original Message -----
> From: "Radka Janekova" <>
> To: "Neal Gompa" <>
> Cc: "Justin W. Flory" <>, "Pavel Valena" <>,
>, "Brian Exelbierd" <>
> Sent: Sunday, November 5, 2017 1:51:30 PM
> Subject: [Developer-portal] Re: FDP release and statistics 10/2017: C# IDEs and Mono updates; Python, Docker and
> Haskell fixes
> > > @pvalena
> > > > I can push the fix (or revert) on Tue afternoon, if you manage to have
> > > > it till then. I'm afraid I'll be unavailable afterwards for 1.5w.
> > > Stuff should not be removed based on opinions of one person who has
> > > nothing to do with the technology in question, nor has any deciding
> > > weight in the project (i.e. is not council/committee.) They can merely
> > > bring it up for discussion.
> > ​So my opinion is worthless? Wow. I don't have words for how awful that is.
> > Despite the apparent worthlessness of my words, I'm still going to take
> > the time to reply cordially, because I hope you will learn to see my point
> > of view on this.​
> I said that changes to major operating system or official websites related to
> it, should not be made based on an opinion of an individual, that the
> appropriate body should be the decision maker, not the individual. I said
> that the individual (in this case you) should merely take it up for
> discussion as you did. Nothing wrong there, in fact, my reply was not
> directed at you, nor was it discussing your actions, which were correct,
> until this reply of yours. Your reply was not "cordial." Please do not put
> words in my mouth as I have neither suggested nor implied that your opinions
> are "worthless."

Please bear in mind that most benefitial result (for FDP) is AFAICT intentended from all.
It is, after all, a community project. I did want to release the FDP update, while omitting any conflicting content. I didn't make any changes to website or content sources, but merely edited the generated result[2]. This will be corrected, when a decision is made.