Adding "Architecture" section in Fedora Developer Portal

[Sinny Kumari]

Hi,

Post Devconf 2016, I had a short conversation with Petr Hracek regarding
adding content for Secondary architectures[1] in Fedora. I liked the idea
behind developer portal creation and the way currently it looks like.

Few people know how to work with Fedora Secondary architectures (e.g.
building packages, fixing architecture specific build failures, getting
access to a secondary architecture machines). One of the main reason for
adding Secondary Architectures content is to provide all sorts of required
and updated information to developers or newcomers at one place.

While writing about Secondary Architectures for developer portal, I noticed
that it doesn't fit well in any of the existing sections (taken from master
branch) which is Start a Project, Get tools,  Languages & databases, Deploy
and distribute. Meanwhile, I thought why not create a new section which is
dedicated to Architectures in general.

A new section with name Architectures make sense to me where we can include:

* Information for all architectures on which Fedora deal with
* We can have three sub-sections:
      * Primary Architectures - ARM v7, x86_64, i686
      * Secondary Architectures -  PowerPc, s3909x, AArch64
      * Other Architectures - Not yet supported in Fedora e.g.  Fedora
Remix for ARM
*  Each architectures will be explained separately w.r.t. working with that
arch in Fedora
*  Including common build failures in packages and possible reasons of
failures will also be useful for a package maintainers to fix build
failures quickly.

This is a draft proposal as per my working experience with Fedora. I have
worked a bit on it and attached a screenshot in email how this section
would look like. I understand that work is required to make UI consistent
with developer portal.

I would like to get your opinion/ feedback so that further work can be done
to see it available on Fedora Developer Portal.

Thanks,
Sinny

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures#Secondary_Architectures

[Sinny Kumari]

Hi all,

I am waiting for your feedback :)

Thanks

On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 5:58 PM, Sinny Kumari  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Post Devconf 2016, I had a short conversation with Petr Hracek regarding
> adding content for Secondary architectures[1] in Fedora. I liked the idea
> behind developer portal creation and the way currently it looks like.
>
> Few people know how to work with Fedora Secondary architectures (e.g.
> building packages, fixing architecture specific build failures, getting
> access to a secondary architecture machines). One of the main reason for
> adding Secondary Architectures content is to provide all sorts of required
> and updated information to developers or newcomers at one place.
>
> While writing about Secondary Architectures for developer portal, I
> noticed that it doesn't fit well in any of the existing sections (taken
> from master branch) which is Start a Project, Get tools,  Languages &
> databases, Deploy and distribute. Meanwhile, I thought why not create a new
> section which is dedicated to Architectures in general.
>
> A new section with name Architectures make sense to me where we can
> include:
> Information for all architectures on which Fedora deal with
> We can have three sub-sections:
>     * Primary Architectures - ARM v7, x86_64, i686
>     * Secondary Architectures -  PowerPc, s3909x, AArch64
>     * Other Architectures - Not yet supported in Fedora e.g.  Fedora
>
> Remix for ARM
> Each architectures will be explained separately w.r.t. working with
>
> that arch in Fedora
> Including common build failures in packages and possible reasons of
>
> failures will also be useful for a package maintainers to fix build
> failures quickly.
>
> This is a draft proposal as per my working experience with Fedora. I have
> worked a bit on it and attached a screenshot in email how this section
> would look like. I understand that work is required to make UI consistent
> with developer portal.
>
> I would like to get your opinion/ feedback so that further work can be
> done to see it available on Fedora Developer Portal.
>
> Thanks,
> Sinny
>
> [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures#Secondary_Architectures
>
> --
> http://sinny.io/

[Miroslav Suchý]

Dne 30.3.2016 v 12:17 Sinny Kumari napsal(a):
> I am waiting for your feedback :)

Personally I am torn between those options.

Can you share the draft of one of those documents, so we can see the content and decide whether it fit some existing
category or if it is worth of new one?

[Petr Hracek]

Hi Sinny,

I think, it could be standalone section as you provided on screenshot.
I think we should use the same pictures over all portal.
And not with a processors like you have.

Send us a pull request please.

[Adam Samalik]

I would personally like to see it under the 'Deployment' section.

Why? We currently have four sections:
1. Start a project - Creating a project from scratch or deciding which
technology to use.
2. Tools - Tools that can support your development.
3. Languages & Databases - The technology we have in fedora.
4. Deployment - How to make it run and how to distribute it.

I think that secondary arches are about 'how to make it running' on a
specific architecture. We can even rename the 'deployment' section if
needed.

As Miroslav said, it would be great to see examples, which would help us
decide to where to put it.

Adam

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Sinny Kumari  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am waiting for your feedback :)
>
> Thanks
>
> On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 5:58 PM, Sinny Kumari  wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Post Devconf 2016, I had a short conversation with Petr Hracek regarding
> > adding content for Secondary architectures[1] in Fedora. I liked the idea
> > behind developer portal creation and the way currently it looks like.
> >
> > Few people know how to work with Fedora Secondary architectures (e.g.
> > building packages, fixing architecture specific build failures, getting
> > access to a secondary architecture machines). One of the main reason for
> > adding Secondary Architectures content is to provide all sorts of required
> > and updated information to developers or newcomers at one place.
> >
> > While writing about Secondary Architectures for developer portal, I
> > noticed that it doesn't fit well in any of the existing sections (taken
> > from master branch) which is Start a Project, Get tools,  Languages &
> > databases, Deploy and distribute. Meanwhile, I thought why not create a new
> > section which is dedicated to Architectures in general.
> >
> > A new section with name Architectures make sense to me where we can
> > include:
> > Information for all architectures on which Fedora deal with
> > We can have three sub-sections:
> >     * Primary Architectures - ARM v7, x86_64, i686
> >     * Secondary Architectures -  PowerPc, s3909x, AArch64
> >     * Other Architectures - Not yet supported in Fedora e.g.  Fedora
> >
> > Remix for ARM
> > Each architectures will be explained separately w.r.t. working with
> >
> > that arch in Fedora
> > Including common build failures in packages and possible reasons of
> >
> > failures will also be useful for a package maintainers to fix build
> > failures quickly.
> >
> > This is a draft proposal as per my working experience with Fedora. I have
> > worked a bit on it and attached a screenshot in email how this section
> > would look like. I understand that work is required to make UI consistent
> > with developer portal.
> >
> > I would like to get your opinion/ feedback so that further work can be
> > done to see it available on Fedora Developer Portal.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Sinny
> >
> > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures#Secondary_Architectures
> >
> > --
> > http://sinny.io/
>
> --
> http://sinny.io/
>
> Developer-portal mailing list
> [e-mail]
>
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/[e-mail]...

[Sinny Kumari]

Hi,

It's difficult to capture whole page in a screenshot, so I am provided a
direct link to access my local running instance of developer portal
https://816e2063.ngrok.io/architectures.html .  I will try to keep this
link up for at least one day.

We can merge it to " Deploy and distribute" section if we rename it to
something in order to fit information for different architectures. My main
motive behind making Architectures section is to add not only information
about secondary architectures but to have information for Primary and other
arches too.

Thanks

On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 6:16 PM, Adam Samalik  wrote:
> I would personally like to see it under the 'Deployment' section.
>
> Why? We currently have four sections:
> Start a project - Creating a project from scratch or deciding which
>
> technology to use.
> 2. Tools - Tools that can support your development.
> 3. Languages & Databases - The technology we have in fedora.
> 4. Deployment - How to make it run and how to distribute it.
>
> I think that secondary arches are about 'how to make it running' on a
> specific architecture. We can even rename the 'deployment' section if
> needed.
>
> As Miroslav said, it would be great to see examples, which would help us
> decide to where to put it.
>
> Adam
>
> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Sinny Kumari  wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am waiting for your feedback :)
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 5:58 PM, Sinny Kumari  wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Post Devconf 2016, I had a short conversation with Petr Hracek
> > > regarding adding content for Secondary architectures[1] in Fedora. I liked
> > > the idea behind developer portal creation and the way currently it looks
> > > like.
> > >
> > > Few people know how to work with Fedora Secondary architectures (e.g.
> > > building packages, fixing architecture specific build failures, getting
> > > access to a secondary architecture machines). One of the main reason for
> > > adding Secondary Architectures content is to provide all sorts of required
> > > and updated information to developers or newcomers at one place.
> > >
> > > While writing about Secondary Architectures for developer portal, I
> > > noticed that it doesn't fit well in any of the existing sections (taken
> > > from master branch) which is Start a Project, Get tools,  Languages &
> > > databases, Deploy and distribute. Meanwhile, I thought why not create a new
> > > section which is dedicated to Architectures in general.
> > >
> > > A new section with name Architectures make sense to me where we can
> > > include:
> > > Information for all architectures on which Fedora deal with
> > > We can have three sub-sections:
> > >     * Primary Architectures - ARM v7, x86_64, i686
> > >     * Secondary Architectures -  PowerPc, s3909x, AArch64
> > >     * Other Architectures - Not yet supported in Fedora e.g.  Fedora
> > >
> > > Remix for ARM
> > > Each architectures will be explained separately w.r.t. working with
> > >
> > > that arch in Fedora
> > > Including common build failures in packages and possible reasons of
> > >
> > > failures will also be useful for a package maintainers to fix build
> > > failures quickly.
> > >
> > > This is a draft proposal as per my working experience with Fedora. I
> > > have worked a bit on it and attached a screenshot in email how this section
> > > would look like. I understand that work is required to make UI consistent
> > > with developer portal.
> > >
> > > I would like to get your opinion/ feedback so that further work can be
> > > done to see it available on Fedora Developer Portal.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Sinny
> > >
> > > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures#Secondary_Architectures
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://sinny.io/
> >
> > --
> > http://sinny.io/
> >
> > Developer-portal mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> >
> > http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/[e-mail]...
>
> --
> Adam Šamalík
>
> Associate Software Engineer
> Red Hat

[Adam Samalik]

Thank you for the link!

I think that this content would be very useful to Fedora packagers. Do you
think it would be useful to our target audience as well?

Let me just remind the goal of the portal:
"The target audience is developers working on Fedora. To be clear, I am
talking about *developers building *on* Fedora, rather than contributing
*to* Fedora*." [1]

I am no expert in secondary architectures - just to make it clear.

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Developer

On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Sinny Kumari <[e-mail]
> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> It's difficult to capture whole page in a screenshot, so I am provided a
> direct link to access my local running instance of developer portal
> https://816e2063.ngrok.io/architectures.html .  I will try to keep this
> link up for at least one day.
>
> We can merge it to " Deploy and distribute" section if we rename it to
> something in order to fit information for different architectures. My main
> motive behind making Architectures section is to add not only information
> about secondary architectures but to have information for Primary and other
> arches too.
>
> Thanks
>
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 6:16 PM, Adam Samalik <[e-mail]
> > wrote:
> > I would personally like to see it under the 'Deployment' section.
> >
> > Why? We currently have four sections:
> > Start a project - Creating a project from scratch or deciding which
> >
> > technology to use.
> > 2. Tools - Tools that can support your development.
> > 3. Languages & Databases - The technology we have in fedora.
> > 4. Deployment - How to make it run and how to distribute it.
> >
> > I think that secondary arches are about 'how to make it running' on a
> > specific architecture. We can even rename the 'deployment' section if
> > needed.
> >
> > As Miroslav said, it would be great to see examples, which would help us
> > decide to where to put it.
> >
> > Adam
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Sinny Kumari <[e-mail]
> > > wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I am waiting for your feedback :)
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 5:58 PM, Sinny Kumari <[e-mail]
> > > > wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > Post Devconf 2016, I had a short conversation with Petr Hracek
> > > > regarding adding content for Secondary architectures[1] in Fedora. I liked
> > > > the idea behind developer portal creation and the way currently it looks
> > > > like.
> > > >
> > > > Few people know how to work with Fedora Secondary architectures (e.g.
> > > > building packages, fixing architecture specific build failures, getting
> > > > access to a secondary architecture machines). One of the main reason for
> > > > adding Secondary Architectures content is to provide all sorts of required
> > > > and updated information to developers or newcomers at one place.
> > > >
> > > > While writing about Secondary Architectures for developer portal, I
> > > > noticed that it doesn't fit well in any of the existing sections (taken
> > > > from master branch) which is Start a Project, Get tools,  Languages &
> > > > databases, Deploy and distribute. Meanwhile, I thought why not create a new
> > > > section which is dedicated to Architectures in general.
> > > >
> > > > A new section with name Architectures make sense to me where we can
> > > > include:
> > > > Information for all architectures on which Fedora deal with
> > > > We can have three sub-sections:
> > > >     * Primary Architectures - ARM v7, x86_64, i686
> > > >     * Secondary Architectures -  PowerPc, s3909x, AArch64
> > > >     * Other Architectures - Not yet supported in Fedora e.g.  Fedora
> > > >
> > > > Remix for ARM
> > > > Each architectures will be explained separately w.r.t. working with
> > > >
> > > > that arch in Fedora
> > > > Including common build failures in packages and possible reasons of
> > > >
> > > > failures will also be useful for a package maintainers to fix build
> > > > failures quickly.
> > > >
> > > > This is a draft proposal as per my working experience with Fedora. I
> > > > have worked a bit on it and attached a screenshot in email how this section
> > > > would look like. I understand that work is required to make UI consistent
> > > > with developer portal.
> > > >
> > > > I would like to get your opinion/ feedback so that further work can be
> > > > done to see it available on Fedora Developer Portal.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Sinny
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures#Secondary_Architectures
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > http://sinny.io/
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://sinny.io/
> > >
> > > Developer-portal mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > >
> > > http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/[e-mail]...
> >
> > --
> > Adam Šamalík
> >
> > Associate Software Engineer
> > Red Hat
>
> --
> http://sinny.io/
>
> Developer-portal mailing list
> [e-mail]
>
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/[e-mail]...

[Miroslav Suchý]

Dne 31.3.2016 v 17:25 Adam Samalik napsal(a):
> Let me just remind the goal of the portal:
> "The target audience is developers working on Fedora. To be clear, I am talking about *developers building *on* Fedora,
> rather than contributing *to* Fedora*." [1]

+1
Although we have (still with Lorem Ipsum) "Start a project" > "Hardware Device Project Creation Guides" with Arduino,
RaspPi...
So I *think* we can have PPC and S390x there. Albeit I would change the concept of those pages little bit.
I.e. remove chapters "Contributing to PowerPC in Fedora", "Reporting ppc64(le) specific bug" and probably some others
and you can try to explain to me (as general developer) how I can use Fedora to develop *some* SW for PPC64LE (and s390x).

[Sinny Kumari]

Hi,

On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 8:55 PM, Adam Samalik  wrote:
> Thank you for the link!
>
> I think that this content would be very useful to Fedora packagers. Do you
> think it would be useful to our target audience as well?

Yes, it will be useful for target audience who are looking to run their
application on architectures like s390, PowerPC using Fedora. For example:
Foo is a  developer who is writing his application on Intel laptop (x86_64
easily accessible) but interested in running his application on other
architectures (say s390) too. For testing his application he can't go and
buy a new s390 box (costly and will have to  set-up running environment).
But, by reading this page he can build his application on s390 arch using
infrastructure provided available in Fedora. If needed he can run and test
by getting access to available Fedora s390 box.
> Let me just remind the goal of the portal:
> "The target audience is developers working on Fedora. To be clear, I am
> talking about *developers building *on* Fedora, rather than contributing
> *to* Fedora*." [1]
>
> Thanks for the link. I somehow didn't see this wiki page earlier. I have

previously looked into Fedora developer portal website and it's github
page. After reading this wiki page, I understand that  sub-sections like
Contributing to PowerPC in Fedora (mentioned by  Miroslav Suchý ) won't be
much useful.

[Adam Samalik]

On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 7:21 PM, Sinny Kumari  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 8:55 PM, Adam Samalik  wrote:
> > Thank you for the link!
> >
> > I think that this content would be very useful to Fedora packagers. Do
> > you think it would be useful to our target audience as well?
>
> Yes, it will be useful for target audience who are looking to run their
> application on architectures like s390, PowerPC using Fedora. For example:
> Foo is a  developer who is writing his application on Intel laptop (x86_64
> easily accessible) but interested in running his application on other
> architectures (say s390) too. For testing his application he can't go and
> buy a new s390 box (costly and will have to  set-up running environment).
> But, by reading this page he can build his application on s390 arch using
> infrastructure provided available in Fedora. If needed he can run and test
> by getting access to available Fedora s390 box.

Can anyone, without being a Fedora packager, do that?

[Sinny Kumari]

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Adam Samalik  wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 7:21 PM, Sinny Kumari  wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 8:55 PM, Adam Samalik 
> > wrote:
> > > Thank you for the link!
> > >
> > > I think that this content would be very useful to Fedora packagers. Do
> > > you think it would be useful to our target audience as well?
> >
> > Yes, it will be useful for target audience who are looking to run their
> > application on architectures like s390, PowerPC using Fedora. For example:
> > Foo is a  developer who is writing his application on Intel laptop (x86_64
> > easily accessible) but interested in running his application on other
> > architectures (say s390) too. For testing his application he can't go and
> > buy a new s390 box (costly and will have to  set-up running environment).
> > But, by reading this page he can build his application on s390 arch using
> > infrastructure provided available in Fedora. If needed he can run and test
> > by getting access to available Fedora s390 box.
>
> Can anyone, without being a Fedora packager, do that?

It is not necessary that person must be a Fedora packager but little
knowledge of  RPM packaging will be required to modify RPM package to test
with updated source code. The advantage is that even without direct access
to machine architecture like s390, he can test his app by just submitting a
job to s390 koji. For an unpackaged application, developer portal does
explain how to do
RPM Packaging[1]

Assuming that the person reading the portal is going to develop on Fedora,
the app will end up being distributed as a RPM. From what I understand,
that is the purpose of having RPM Packaging and Copr Build service[2] on
developer portal as well.

[1] https://developer.fedoraproject.org/deployment/rpm/about.html
[2] https://developer.fedoraproject.org/deployment/copr/about.html

[Sinny Kumari]

On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 8:24 PM, Sinny Kumari  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> It's difficult to capture whole page in a screenshot, so I am provided a
> direct link to access my local running instance of developer portal
> https://816e2063.ngrok.io/architectures.html .  I will try to keep this
> link up for at least one day.
>
> We can merge it to " Deploy and distribute" section if we rename it to
> something in order to fit information for different architectures. My main
> motive behind making Architectures section is to add not only information
> about secondary architectures but to have information for Primary and other
> arches too.

How about renaming  " Deploy and distribute" section to "Test, deploy and
distribute" ?  Test section will ensure that their application build and
run successfully on target architectures before actually distributing to
target users.