Diversity Team - Badges

[Amita]

Hi Justin,

Just saw you have created team for fedora diversity.
Can we have badge for the team members, also for diversity panel, so 
like two badges.
And more as we go further for doing events related to diversity and 
inclusion and so on :)

If idea is accepted, I can open a ticket for this.

Thanks,
Amita

[Justin W. Flory]

On 08/09/2016 03:23 AM, Amita Sharma wrote:
>  Hi Justin,
>
>  Just saw you have created team for fedora diversity.
>  Can we have badge for the team members, also for diversity panel, so
>  like two badges.
>  And more as we go further for doing events related to diversity and
>  inclusion and so on :)
>
>  If idea is accepted, I can open a ticket for this.
>
>  Thanks,
>  Amita
>  
Yeah! Last night, I filed a few tickets in Fedora Infrastructure for us 
to get a FAS group and also a Fedocal instance. All of those things 
exist as of now.

I think a badge for those sponsored into the Diversity Team would be a 
good idea for encouraging more people to participate. Although we may 
want to spend some time looking at our own on-boarding process first to 
make sure we know how we want to bring newcomers into the team. I hope 
we can cover some of these things at the meeting, but for now, you can 
see the ticket I filed here about this:

     https://pagure.io/fedora-diversity/issue/1

--
Cheers,
Justin W. Flory
jflory7(a)gmail.com

[diversity] Re: Diversity Team - Badges

[Jona Azizaj]

Ping, any news about this?

~Jona

[diversity] Re: Diversity Team - Badges

[Karsten Wade]

On 08/09/2016 03:08 AM, Justin W. Flory wrote:
>  
>  I think a badge for those sponsored into the Diversity Team would be a
>  good idea for encouraging more people to participate. Although we may
>  want to spend some time looking at our own on-boarding process first to
>  make sure we know how we want to bring newcomers into the team. I hope
>  we can cover some of these things at the meeting, but for now, you can
>  see the ticket I filed here about this: 
Outside-of-panel thought ...

May I suggest you make sure that a badge doesn't become another form of
feminist cookie?

http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Feminist_cookie

And yeah, I'm aware I'm currently at-risk of seeking a cookie for
bringing up feminist cookies. It's a dangerously reciprocal situation
that ... well, I guess I'm 'splaining about.

And no, I don't have a suggestion on how to prevent the cookie-ism. Just
an alert about the risk.

Kind regards,

- Karsten, hating the ugly loops of ugliness but unable to disengage &
yet could have left it alone for another to speak up first ... darn ...
maybe next time? Always worth a fail-fail-try-again ...

-- 
Karsten Wade
Community Infra & Platform (Mgr)
Open Source and Standards, @redhatopen
@quaid gpg: AD0E0C41

[diversity] Re: Diversity Team - Badges

[Radka Janekova]

Hi there,

on the topic of anything feminist, cookie or otherwise, I would like to
also point out that *diversity != feminism* and we should make sure that it
does not become such, and that it is not seen as such by the public.

*Where do I get my cookie for being a female programmer then?*


Best regards,
Radka

------------------------------
*Radka Janeková*
*radka.janek(a)redhat.com <radka.janek(a)redhat.com&gt;*


On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 1:30 AM, Karsten Wade <kwade(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:

>  On 08/09/2016 03:08 AM, Justin W. Flory wrote:
>  >
>  > I think a badge for those sponsored into the Diversity Team would be a
>  > good idea for encouraging more people to participate. Although we may
>  > want to spend some time looking at our own on-boarding process first to
>  > make sure we know how we want to bring newcomers into the team. I hope
>  > we can cover some of these things at the meeting, but for now, you can
>  > see the ticket I filed here about this:
>
>  Outside-of-panel thought ...
>
>  May I suggest you make sure that a badge doesn't become another form of
>  feminist cookie?
>
>  http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Feminist_cookie
>
>  And yeah, I'm aware I'm currently at-risk of seeking a cookie for
>  bringing up feminist cookies. It's a dangerously reciprocal situation
>  that ... well, I guess I'm 'splaining about.
>
>  And no, I don't have a suggestion on how to prevent the cookie-ism. Just
>  an alert about the risk.
>
>  Kind regards,
>
>  - Karsten, hating the ugly loops of ugliness but unable to disengage &
>  yet could have left it alone for another to speak up first ... darn ...
>  maybe next time? Always worth a fail-fail-try-again ...
>
>  --
>  Karsten Wade
>  Community Infra & Platform (Mgr)
>  Open Source and Standards, @redhatopen
>  @quaid gpg: AD0E0C41
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Fedora Diversity Team mailing list -- diversity(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to diversity-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>
>

[diversity] Re: Diversity Team - Badges

[A. Mani]

On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Radka Janekova <radka.janek(a)redhat.com&gt;
wrote:

>  on the topic of anything feminist, cookie or otherwise, I would like
> to
>  also point out that *diversity != feminism* and we should make sure that
>  it does not become such, and that it is not seen as such by the public.
>  
​diversity \subset feminism




Best

A. Mani



Prof(Miss) A. Mani
CU, ASL, AMS, ISRS, CLC, CMS
HomePage: http://www.logicamani.in
Blog: http://logicamani.blogspot.in/
http://about.me/logicamani
sip:[e-mail]

[diversity] Re: Diversity Team - Badges

[Karsten Wade]

On 10/18/2016 09:59 AM, A. Mani wrote:
>  On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Radka Janekova
> <radka.janek(a)redhat.com&gt;
>  wrote:
>  
> > on the topic of anything feminist, cookie or otherwise, I would like to
> > also point out that *diversity != feminism* and we should make sure that
> > it does not become such, and that it is not seen as such by the public.
> >
>  
>  ​diversity \subset feminism 
I wasn't making an equivalence between the two, I was using the example
from feminism to remind us that people seek cookies everywhere even
while being well-meaning.

It's simply a risk to consider in issuing badges for participation --
some people will participate for the cookies and milk, and not for the
real effect they can make. Is that bad? It depends. ;)

Regards,

- Karsten

>  
>  
>  
>  Best
>  
>  A. Mani
>  
>  
>  
>  Prof(Miss) A. Mani
>  CU, ASL, AMS, ISRS, CLC, CMS
>  HomePage: http://www.logicamani.in
>  Blog: http://logicamani.blogspot.in/
>  http://about.me/logicamani
>  sip:[e-mail]
>  
>  
>  
>  _______________________________________________
>  Fedora Diversity Team mailing list -- diversity(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to diversity-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>   
-- 
Karsten Wade
Community Infra & Platform (Mgr)
Open Source and Standards, @redhatopen
@quaid gpg: AD0E0C41

[diversity] Re: Diversity Team - Badges

[Justin W. Flory]

On 10/18/2016 03:43 PM, Karsten Wade wrote:
>  On 10/18/2016 09:59 AM, A. Mani wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Radka Janekova <radka.janek(a)redhat.com&gt;
> > wrote:
> >
> >> on the topic of anything feminist, cookie or otherwise, I would like to
> >> also point out that *diversity != feminism* and we should make sure that
> >> it does not become such, and that it is not seen as such by the public.
> >>
> >
> > ​diversity \subset feminism
>
>  I wasn't making an equivalence between the two, I was using the example
>  from feminism to remind us that people seek cookies everywhere even
>  while being well-meaning.
>
>  It's simply a risk to consider in issuing badges for participation --
>  some people will participate for the cookies and milk, and not for the
>  real effect they can make. Is that bad? It depends. ;)
>
>  Regards,
>
>  - Karsten
>  
Hey Karsten, thanks for bringing this point about feminist cookies. When 
we were discussing on-boarding and how we wanted to bring in new members 
to this group, we had emphasized the importance and need for members of 
this team to be familiar with the Fedora community and ideally have some 
kind of background or pre-existing interest in diversity within tech. 
While these are more principles than anything that's clearly written in 
stone, I believe the concern you were raising is something we have given 
thought and consideration inadvertently when closer to when this team 
was getting started.

Thanks for bringing this up.

-- 
Cheers,
Justin W. Flory
jflory7(a)gmail.com

[diversity] Cookies, tokenism, and more (was: Re: Diversity Team - Badges)

[Justin W. Flory]

On 10/18/2016 03:43 PM, Karsten Wade wrote:
>  On 10/18/2016 09:59 AM, A. Mani wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Radka Janekova <radka.janek(a)redhat.com&gt;
> > wrote:
> >
> >> on the topic of anything feminist, cookie or otherwise, I would like to
> >> also point out that *diversity != feminism* and we should make sure that
> >> it does not become such, and that it is not seen as such by the public.
> >>
> >
> > ​diversity \subset feminism
>
>  I wasn't making an equivalence between the two, I was using the example
>  from feminism to remind us that people seek cookies everywhere even
>  while being well-meaning.
>
>  It's simply a risk to consider in issuing badges for participation --
>  some people will participate for the cookies and milk, and not for the
>  real effect they can make. Is that bad? It depends. ;)
>  
Not to keep prodding at this topic, but I've actually started exploring 
this concept a little deeper in some other places. Richard Brislin, 
author of "Understanding Culture's Influence on Behavior" and 
"Intercultural communication: A reader", categorized this type of 
treatment as "tokenism" (as early as 1993). Although it's more often 
used in a workplace context than open source, the same concept applies. 
The idea behind tokenism is where a person's small participation in 
activities is used as self-convincing proof for not being prejudiced.

Although I'm by no means an expert, I've been exploring deeper into some 
of Brislin's writings, and when I saw this, it immediately reminded me 
about this discussion. Could be a "recommended reading" topic for anyone 
wanting to expand their knowledge on these kinds of topics. :)

-- 
Cheers,
Justin W. Flory
jflory7(a)gmail.com