docs October 2006

docs@lists.fedoraproject.org

33 participants
62 discussions

Re: Default home page - Impressive!
by Rahul Sundaram 09 Oct '06

09 Oct '06

Jim Cornette wrote: > I just noticed the default home page. I like the looks of it and the > links and categories seem to be what would help a user find helpful > material. > Great job! > Jim Thanks for the feedback. Rahul

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In regards to "Introducing Fedora" as suggested....
by Markus McLaughlin 08 Oct '06

08 Oct '06

There are many ways to introduce Fedora Core so I am asking for suggestions on how best to do so, I want to do it so it's not too dry or too "Microsoft"-like, somewhere in-between is what I had in mind with a funny Dilbert-style image on the front. What is the best FC- supported Screen Capture Tool so I can provide the Opening Desktop Screen of FC6? Based upon what I write for the Introduction, what would be an appropriate Conclusion? I would like to strongly suggest that fedoraforum.org be the unofficial Fedora Handbook site where all the Fedora web sites submit "How-tos" and Solutions into one single forum known as "The Fedora Handbook." The purpose of this is for those who aren't busy on the Documentation Project gather what has already been written and have it combined on the fedoraforum "Handbook" Site and once that is successful, someone or some team will have a completed PDF ready 3 months before the next FC release. It is just a suggestion, nothing more.... Mark McLaughlin - marknetproductionsentrance.blogspot.com

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small makes big
by Karsten Wade 08 Oct '06

08 Oct '06

Just a note to be clear, since at least Dimitris had some questions about the intent here. <glezos> quaid, what I wanted to say (after re-reading the discussions) is that, indeed it might be difficult to handle a huge file. But, it might not be really difficult to coordinate the docs (cross-links, no duplicated content) so that at a point they might get bundled together. <glezos> What I didn't understand is whether you would be interested in such an approach.. Small, indivitual docs that complement each other and that could make one whole, self-contained at some point. That is exactly what we want here. Small, individual documents that are: * Written in a consistent style; * Follow standard conventions; * Have complementary topics; * Stand alone, yet * Fit into a whole One outcome of this should be a Fedora (Beginners) Handbook, a comprehensive guide to all things for new to Linux/new to Fedora users. A big challenge here is having a document self-identify with a certain experience level of user, and then *keep all material within that level*. For example, if we decide beginners really need minimal CLI interaction, then anything that is written to fit into a beginners handbook needs to follow that convention. Before we begin a break-out group to discuss and decide on all this separately, lets explore this on-list a little longer. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

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docbookhtml2php.py
by Paul W. Frields 07 Oct '06

07 Oct '06

I think this new version fixes some of the problems with the one we've used previously. However, I'd like others to eyeball it and let me know if they find problems with any of their inputs. Best way to test it, of course, is to use it in a web sandbox with the SOP for fedora.redhat.com publishing. Yes, I know that will go away. One day soon. Some day. Eventually. :-) Until then, try this out and let me know if you see anything borken. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject

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Missing Translations
by Robert 'Bob' Jensen 07 Oct '06

07 Oct '06

Several people have asked about getting partial translations or late translations in to the fedora-release-notes package. While I appreciate the effort that many people have put forth the facts are as follows. I set the standard at 90% or better to be included in the release notes package. I am of the opinion that an incomplete translation is not acceptable. While it would be nice to include everyone's attempt we have to draw the line some where. Is one line enough? I think we all agree that it is not. Is 50% enough? I personally do not think so. We are trying to have a professional looking finished product, for this at times I think even 90% is a bit to low. What can we do better? More translators. If you need more help with your language please email me and let me know, I will make some personal appeals to members of the Fedora community and the ambassadors project to get you help. Some of these people may not have any translation experience but it will be a chance for you to mentor someone and get some help at the same time. More time for translation. It is our intent to allow for 10 days from the freeze to the need for translations for FC7. This will give the translation team an additional 3 days over what they have had in the past. Why? Because getting our release notes in every language is my personal goal. Yes 71 languages. I would like to reach one half way to this goal by FC10. Other options? The release notes are now part of a standalone package called "fedora-release-notes" one of the main advantages is that we can push out updates through out the life of a release. So while your translation will not be on the ISO it can go out as part of an update post release as I understand it. Also we have what we call the "web only" errata of the release notes, this in the past has had all of the last minute additions to the release-notes and also the translations that have come in late. While we have rebuilt our package "fedora-release-notes" to remove the de translation that was included in error my understanding is we should not be adding anything to it at this time even with the release delay. I will verify this for clarification. If the situation of adding things to the package will be allowed I am sorry but the 90% rule must stay. I am sure that if we can get a substantial number of translations for inclusion in the ISO we will have a better chance of getting them added. Thank you for voicing your opinion and asking "why?" Your work and input in the process is valuable to us. I wish the situation were different. Bob -- Robert 'Bob' Jensen * * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen gpg fingerprint: F9F4 7243 4243 0043 2C45 97AF E8A4 C3AE 42EB 0BC6 Fedora Docs Projects FDSCo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject

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Here is my challenge, let's see if we can do it!
by Markus McLaughlin 07 Oct '06

07 Oct '06

UBUNTU! This is all I hear and read about these days, every other Linux OS is suffering because of it! And what is worse, Windows Vista is trying to lure people away from Linux altogether. This has to slow down or stop completely. Ubuntu just came out with its first Official Handbook, this is not good for us, Fedora Fans/Programmers. SO! I propose we band together and crank out a $20 Handbook with FC 7 DVD, Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 Client Demo CD with PDF Intro to RH Enterprise Linux 5 Client/Server, AND a FREE PDF for the next Fedora Core, version 7. To test out what we will write, we should put together a FREE PDF "Handbook" for Fedora Core 6. If that proves successful, we should move forward to Fedora Core 7. FC7 must have the PDF and an order form web site link for the book itself on the DVD release. Half of the proceeds must go to the Red Cross (http:// www.redcross.org) aiding Hurricane Katrina Relief with the other half to pay for blank media for copying the ISO images from the download mirrors. The Official Fedora Handbook - Fedora Core 6 - October 2006 (PDF version generated November 2006) 1. Introduction to Fedora Core 6 2. Installation - Everything explained with color screenshots to illustrate the details. 3. Configuration - How to set up the Applications / Servers / Base / Language Support 4. Exploration - Getting to know the Desktop GUI for both GNOME and KDE. 5. Projects - Different tasks that can be accomplished with the Applications / Add-Ons. 6. Advanced - Learning the Command Line and System Mechanics 7. Future Directions - What is being worked on for Fedora Core 7 8. Introduction to Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 Client/Server - Moving to the next level 9. Conclusion I would like to be in charge of the Introduction and Conclusion with cool quotes from different sources. This Handbook should be like those "Dummies" books with little insights from the programmers on why they put in this particular code. There should be "side lines" where a lead programmer or Fedora enthusiast talks about WHY they use Fedora Core instead of some other competing Linux OS. It would be wise to have HIGHLIGHTED words in bold, code in Typewriter Font, and references in Italic or in the color blue. Review the Ubuntu Handbook and the previous Fedora Core for Dummies books for references to everything I have mentioned. I can be reached at markmc34(a)verizon.net Thank you for your time and attention! Now, let's get to work!!! :D Mark McLaughlin - Writer / Fedora Core User / Mac User / Geekish Dude in Hudson, MA, USA marknetproductionsentrance.blogspot.com

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Re: Official Fedora Handbook
by Karsten Wade 07 Oct '06

07 Oct '06

Note: fedora-docs-list added to the Cc:; please join this list to continue to the discussion. On Sat, 2006-10-07 at 04:22 -0700, Eureka Trek wrote: > Dear Ms Karsten Wade; Just FYI, it is 'Mr.', but I'm not a person who is stuck on formalities, we can drop the title all together and you can just call me 'Karsten'. :) Please do not feel embarrassed at this common mistake; I'm sure others on this list share the confusion, and I'm taking the opportunity to straighten ya'll out. > Back on October 2nd an individual using the handle > "HudsonMan" posted a thread on FedoraForum entitled > "It Is Time For The Official Fedora Handbook!". Here > is the link if you wish to read through the postings > to the thread: > http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=125807 > (the postings under the handle "eureka.trek" are mine) Yes, the same person made a post on the subject on fedora-docs-list, following the suggestion of Rahul. As you requested, I just read through the thread you posted. No one has replied to HudsonMan/Markus McLaughlin on the list mainly because we have been busy getting the release notes ready for FC6. I'm taking some time this morning to reply to you and Markus to keep this great conversation going. I am making my point-by-point reply to you and on the list because I think the effort is best used in keeping the discussion there. I encourage you to join the list (and the project[1]). We also are a very passionate group who take pains to be open to new contributors who may also be new to Linux. Your ideas will be discussed with respect. Our project is one that new Linux and/or Fedora users can join and contribute to very easily; we are a great entry point for becoming a Fedora contributor. :) > The purpose of my correspondence is to make some > general enquiries concerning the issues presented in > the above thread. I hope that you can take the time > to read through the above mentioned thread at > FedoraForum and then address my questions below or to > point me in the proper direction where the answers > might be found. We have discussed, settled, and even addressed many of the points brought up in the fedoraforum.org thread. I'll be happy to bring those together into this discussion, which is what Rahul had in mind in sending folks here. > My questions are: > > 1) Has the Documentation Project taken up the task of > writing an "Official Fedora Handbook"? Yes, most definitely. The format, title, and methods are somewhat different than you and others propose. We are using a mix of proven and cutting-edge community documentation methods. FYI, to settle something at the start, we have traditionally loathed the word 'Official' in a title. It is an overused word in technical publishing and leads to confusion. "The Fedora Handbook" IMHO carries a lot more weight anyway -- short, to the point, impressive. > 2) If the Documentation Project has taken up this task > then where might people go to view it's progress > and/or participate? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts The short guides there are rather modular and can fit together into a larger work, once completed. You and all others are welcome and encouraged to participate. Right now, we are focusing on the new-user friendly Desktop User Guide. If you see anything in that draft that is too high level for a new user, you are encouraged to get a Wiki account[2] and fix it. One thing we know from experience, which is reflected in a few posts in the fedoraforum.org thread, is that it is *very* hard to write and maintain an entire book from scratch. For example, in the thread you propose using screenshots for everything. This is a very labor intensive process, prone to error, and makes the resulting work much harder to translate. Writers who get books published through publishers are either full-time writers or otherwise have the time to devote to writing. For a standard book, expect to commit >30 hours per week for 6 months. Or more. Our experience with Fedora contributions is that it is not reasonable or realistic to expect this level of commitment from one or several individuals. Even if someone can start at this level of commitment, keeping it going for 6 months is a lot. Once those 6 months have passed, the resulting book is now 3 to 6 months out of date, referring to the *last* version of Fedora Core, and therefore almost instantly obsolete. This is why we are focused on i) online publishing, and ii) shorter written works that can be grouped together into a manual/handbook. Believe me when I say that all of these points have been thought out and discussed multiple times over the years. We could write up a Wiki page to explain, but it is all in the archives for this list. Just FYI if you think I am too quick with my conclusions. :) To get involved: 1. Join the list, start discussing. That's easy: http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list 2. Follow up on the new writers checklist: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/NewWriters > 3) If the Documentation Project has not taken up this > task then what is the proper procedure as well as > person(s) to contact for getting the necessary > approvals so that someone/group desiring to take up > this task could rightly place the word "Official" in > the title of such a handbook? Please understand that I am *not* being arrogant in saying that it is unlikely that a random group of people who met on fedoraforum.org are going to produce a full-length book in the manner described. Well, to be balanced, I have to point out that random groups of people have met and done many amazing things, such as producing Linux distributions. But all of this is usually best done by working with existing materials and building from there. It *can* be done from scratch, but that is a much, much harder road to take. This project has specifically been built from the ground-up with the ability to: 1. Get new writers working on shorter works 2. Design such shorter works to fit together into a larger work You can write and edit using the Wiki. All content is published under an open content license, the OPL[3], that allows us to share work with other projects, or let other community members use the work as a basis for their own documenting efforts. Our real problem is a lack of volunteers, not a lack of ideas. My goal in replying to you directly and on this list is to continue trying to attract and help with the efforts of such volunteers. > Thank you for taking the time to read the thread and > address these questions. I look forward to your response. Thanks for your enthusiasm. I hope we are successful at turning the energy into output. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/NewWriters [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem I apologize for any difficulties in getting the necessary accounts in place, etc. We are trying to make this simpler, but there are real reasons for the few barriers that are in place. Do not hesitate to ask for help in getting your account(s) setup, either on this list or via IRC on irc.freenode.net, #fedora-docs. [3] http://opencontent.org/openpub/ - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

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Translation of Installation Notes into Italian Language
by g.caruso＠fedoraserver.org 07 Oct '06

07 Oct '06

Hi at all. I inform you that the Installation Notes for FC6 (install-guide devel ver 1.34 2006-08-27) is now translated into Italian Language and is commited to the CVS (only i18n). Best regards, Guido.-

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Brazilian Portuguese Translation for RELEASE NOTES (FC6)
by Hugo Cisneiros 06 Oct '06

06 Oct '06

Hi guys, Just to inform you that the release notes for FC6 is now translated to Brazilian Portuguese and is commited to the CVS (both i18n and fedora-docs). In this last day, it will be only revision. The .po file is on the CVS, and a built draft is available in the following URL: http://www.devin.com.br/eitch/fedora/RELEASE-NOTES-pt_BR/ When the revision is completed, I'll inform again. Oh, and sorry for being such a lazy ass this time :-) Cheers, -- []'s Eitch http://www.devin.com.br/eitch/ "Talk is cheap. Show me the code." - Linus Torvalds

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Addendum to my first docs list post
by Markus McLaughlin 05 Oct '06

05 Oct '06

The easiest way to have a Fedora Core Handbook published is through Red Hat Press and through Amazon.com, Barnes & Noble, CompUSA, Overstock.com, and buy.com . This idea just came to me... Mark McLaughlin

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docs October 2006