My real name is Francis Earl, for obvious reason however, I prefer
Frank. I currently reside in Phoenix, Arizona. (PST)
I'm currently not working, however I am 3 classes from an AAS in Network
My primary purpose for joining the arts team is to hopefully make entry
easier for people interested in Fedora. I wish to do this by providing
information on fedoraproject.org that will hopefully assist them in
getting started. I believe that other projects are so popular because
the requirements for entry are lower, and hopefully I'll help ensure
Fedora starts down a similar path.
I was an early contributor to Ubuntu documentation, and have made
many OpenSUSE wiki pages. These are mostly related to what normal users
will want to do when they get started, very basic things explained
because I was sick of answering them in the IRC channels, and also to
remind me of the process :)
I don't think anything really makes me an excellent match for the
project. I think I simply have the time to write the pages many would
find tedious, things directed at new users. Everyone was one once
though, and I don't know about you, but it was very confusing for me.
There are no User Manuals for Fedora users, I believe the wiki should
become exactly that. A User Manual for Users by Users, and I don't think
such things can be written by anyone but the users :)
I feel like I just went through an interview process, is that really the
feel people want for contribution to the project?
[fearl@thabox ~]$ gpg --fingerprint 7BDB4407
pub 1024D/7BDB4407 2007-04-29
Key fingerprint = 7125 6099 AAEF C64F 3F3E DC5F 9172 8F72 7BDB
uid Frank Earl (Trey) <lunitik(a)gmail.com>
sub 2048g/590237A4 2007-04-29
I'm looking for somewhere to get started on the wiki, and I'm not sure
where to proceed?
This lead me to the Drafts wiki page, am I free to edit these pages as I
see fit? What is the etiquette here?
Just looking briefly at the "Getting Started" page, I believe a few
improvements could be made. It's overtone is very professional, which is
intimidating. I also think things like Graphic User Interface and Window
Manager should provide links to wikipedia so the user can learn more
about the topic if they wish. Wikipedia is provided in the Free Content
bookmarks folder in Fedora 7t4, so I don't think that would be an issue?
I think the wiki is the wrong place to try and explain such things
Also, I don't see a way to upload images? There is a saying "a picture
tells a thousand words", and I believe it's true. I don't even see a way
to add images though? Screenshots (of a particular section of relevance
on the desktop) would greatly clarify what things say, and provide an
air of confidence for the user "I must be doing it right, it looks the
Just some thoughts...
We use two specialty DTDs in the Docs Project, "rpm-info.dtd" and
"entities.dtd". Using SGML, these DTDs define the elements and
attributes allowed in an XML file which subscribes to them.
When you declare a document type using an XML DTD, you must provide a
URI for that DTD, either using the SYSTEM or PUBLIC type. A SYSTEM type
declaration is always a file local to your system, and that's the kind
we've made use of for our "rpm-info" and "entities" specialty files in
the Docs Project. A typical DTD in one of our "rpm-info.xml" files
might look like this:
<!DOCTYPE rpm-info SYSTEM "../../docs-common/packaging/rpm-info.dtd">
But what happens when docs-common is located somewhere different on
another contributor's system? This can now happen since we have
different module targets for CVS, such as "release-notes" or
"release-notes-devel" or "release-notes-devel-dir".
Enter the PUBLIC type declaration. The PUBLIC type is used for a DTD
that's available, well, publicly. :-) Things like DocBook XML use
PUBLIC DTDs because you can find the DTD on the web in several
A PUBLIC DTD always has a "formal public identifier" (FPI) that sets
that DTD apart from all others, but allows the same DTD to be published
in many different places without any confusion. For instance, the
DocBook XML 4.4 is always:
"-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML 4.4//EN"
...no matter whether it's published at www.docbook.org,
www.oasis-open.org, or available locally on your Fedora system in
your /usr/share/sgml/docbook/xml-dtd-4.4-1.0-30.1/ folder. It's
perfectly permissible to make your own FPIs as long as you don't use
another DTD's FPI. (And of course you should play nice and not make it
hard for people to tell it's yours.)
I've recently made the following FPIs for our rpm-info and entities DTD
"-//Fedora//DTD Docs RPM-INFO V1.0//EN"
"-//Fedora//DTD Docs ENTITIES V1.0//EN"
I'm also publishing them at the following URLs, respectively:
This means that all our rpm-info and entities documents can start using
those URIs to avoid pesky validation errors when your docs-common/
directory ends up in a different place than it was when the rpm-info or
entities XML was first written. If you have an XML-aware editor that's
net-savvy, it will automatically retrieve the DTD over the network and
validate using it.
Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrieldsirc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
I just noticed that in some occasions (eg.
en_US/Installer.xml:210(para)), the tag <filename> is used for the
/etc directory, whereas in the past it used to be <filename
Which one is the appropriate? Should we update it in our translations
or should we leave it as is because it will change back in the future?
Paul Frields (stickster)
Bob Jensen (BobJensen, EvilBob)
John Babich (jmbuser)
Dimitris Glezos (glezos)
Kushal Das (kushal)
Karsten Wade (quaid)
Bart Couvreur (couf)
Ville-Pekka Vainio (vpv)
Jonathan Roberts (jonrob)
1. F7 release notes status
* [stickster] Dumped an update for the postats (and a new, less
locally-dependent script) on the wiki last night: see
* The deadline is 2359 UTC on May 02 2007, so about 3.5 days left.
2. Discussion of completeness required for translations (part 1)
* 90% of translation is customary percentage to be considered
for inclusion in final release.
* New RPM with additional translations can be made for later spins
3. Guide schedule and status
* Docs team a little behind on guides due to new features in the distro.
* [stickster] Wrote email during meeting,
on great way to look at current state of docs by using yelp, the
GNOME help browser.
* [stickster] Continue work on Fedora Implementation Guide (FIG).
* [jmbuser] Continue update of Fedora User Guide (FUG).
* [JonRob) Get status on System Management Guide (SMG) from Rahul (mether).
* [glezos] Do an analysis of PO files completed.
4. Discussion of completeness required for translations (part 2)
* [all] If a translation is below 90%, but translator had to leave out
a section and would like a manual review, we should do so as a team.
* [glezos] Sent email during meeting on this topic to list,
5. F7T4 "release notes"
* [quaid] During meeting, mailed wwoods (cc: stickster and Jesse Keating)
concerning proper process for publishing official release notes.
Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project
So, in 3 days we have the deadline for the release notes translations. F7 is
coming. Yay! :)
As some of you might already know, to keep the quality of our published Docs
high, we have set a high bar for how much of a document could be translated
before being published. So, for example, for small documents like 'homepage' and
'about-fedora', we aim to only publish documents completely translated and for
larger documents, like 'release-notes', we've set the bar to 90%.
This 90% is kind of tricky, because if a document has a 5% of untranslated
strings scattered everywhere the document then its quality is lower than a
document having 15% of untranslated strings in an "untouched" section or two
(especially if these sections are not popular or are buried down in the doc).
So, here's a plan: if some language teams believe their 'release-notes'
translation is under 90% *but* the untranslated strings are not important, then
please send an email to -docs-list and we can see if the document is in a
Having this in mind while translating sounds like a good idea as well (translate
important stuff first tackling section-by-section in final stages). Also, bear
in mind that in this release we are planning on releasing an update on the
release notes both on the web and on the desktop via an updated RPM.
Finally, reminding that the quick-n-dirty stats page is up at:
Hopefully we'll see in the next 3 days 100% translations of the small docs and
complete-enough translations of the highly important release notes. Keep up the
good work. :)
Jabber ID: glezos(a)jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B
"He who gives up functionality for ease of use
loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous)
12:10 < stickster> <meeting>
12:10 < BobJensen> I say go for it
12:10 < stickster> Hi everybody!
12:11 < jmbuser> hello
12:11 < stickster> Present right now are stickster, BobJensen, and
jmbuser; couf will be along shortly, and quaid may amble in at some
12:11 < BobJensen> Greetings
12:11 < stickster> Item: release notes status
12:11 < stickster> So we had a successful drop to the L10N folks, and
translations are proceeding apace.
12:12 < stickster> I dumped an update for the postats (and a new, less
locally-dependent script) on the wiki last night:
12:12 < jmbuser> stickster: Congrats
12:12 < stickster> The deadline is 2359 UTC on May 02 2007, so about 3.5
12:13 < kushal> stickster, have a question ?
12:13 < stickster> Several locales are completely done, not as many as
we'd like but fine work so far
12:13 < stickster> kushal: go
12:13 < kushal> stickster, is 100% is required to be in ISO ?
12:14 < kushal> l10n
12:14 < quaid> oi
12:14 < kushal> EOF
12:14 < stickster> kushal: For release notes, it will probably be
something in the 90% range
12:14 < BobJensen> We have used 90% in the past
12:14 < stickster> kushal: If it's not that high, you can still get an
entry in the Web-only release that comes a week or two afterward
12:14 < kushal> stickster, and other pages like homepage, readme
12:15 < kushal> stickster, I am only guy here for bn_IN :)
12:15 < stickster> kushal: We are going to do a more proactive job of
updating the fedora-release-notes package this release cycle
12:15 < kushal> stickster, will try to be in 905
12:16 < stickster> So if it's not ready for the ISO, you will still be
able to get a later release with a new RPM
12:16 * couf is alive
12:16 < kushal> s/905/90%
12:16 < stickster> The problem is having a half-done translation on the
installation program does not look very attractive
12:16 < kushal> stickster, Yes
12:16 < stickster> But if the goal is functionality for later spins
including updates, we can just make a new RPM later including the new
12:17 < kushal> I will do my best
12:17 < stickster> kushal: we know you will -- much appreciated
12:17 < kushal> thank you
12:17 < stickster> kushal: If you want, get the homepage and
about-fedora done first and then worry about release-notes
12:17 < quaid> now would be a good time for us to hear if there is going
to be a schedule slip for the final release; that is, one that effects
12:17 < kushal> stickster, both done
12:18 < vpv> will release-notes get into ISO if it completely translated
but about-fedora, homepage etc. are not complete?
12:18 < kushal> stickster, readme is also covered
12:18 < stickster> kushal: as of last night I see 32/8 for your
about-fedora and 32/5 for homepage
12:18 < BobJensen> vpv: yes, they are separate modules now as I
12:19 < kushal> stickster, yes, still confused with some words :p
12:19 < stickster> vpv: Asked and answered
12:19 < kushal> stickster, those will be fixed tomorrow
12:19 < stickster> kushal: thanks
12:19 < stickster> OK, let's move on, we can pick up other L10N
questions after the meeting
12:19 < vpv> BobJensen: thanks
12:19 < stickster> quaid: +1 on schedule slip... don't know anything yet
12:19 < stickster> BobJensen: +1
12:20 < glezos> hi ya all. Sorry for being late. I'll try to be around,
doing some other obligations at the same time
12:20 < stickster> glezos: HI!!
12:20 < glezos> stickster: :)
12:20 < stickster> Wow, our attendance has swelled :-)
12:20 * stickster hands gavel to quaid thinking we're done with topic
12:21 < couf> yep, let's move on
12:21 < jmbuser> +1
12:21 < quaid> oh, joy!
12:22 < quaid> let's talk about them guides ...
12:22 < stickster> so... guide schedule. :-\
12:22 < stickster> I'll come right out and say we're a little behind
here. I am working on the IG now (like, last few days)
12:22 * quaid admittedly isn't having a great insight about this.
12:23 < stickster> And I think I may be ready for the scheduled PO drop
12:23 < quaid> ok, that we can talk about
12:23 < stickster> But there are things that have happened in the distro
that I didn't even expect over the last month, which has put me further
12:23 < quaid> we don't want to be in the position of pushing content
for trans that isn't really ready, right?
12:23 < stickster> Correct
12:23 < couf> quaid: +1
12:24 < stickster> But we don't want a blank space for the IG for F7
12:24 < stickster> *either
12:24 < couf> any probable changes to anaconda coming (/me guesses not)
12:24 < quaid> well, IG is one thing, yes
12:24 < stickster> There's the FUG also
12:25 < quaid> we're at the time to focus all our energies on only the
FUG and FIG
12:25 < quaid> everything else, well
12:25 < stickster> I think mether has some work going on the Yum guide
12:25 < stickster> But he's doing that on the wiki, so meh
12:25 < quaid> meh
12:25 * stickster doesn't care for shepherding wiki docs anymore, too
big a PITA
12:25 < quaid> so there is a conversion back, maybe we can use the Info
12:26 < stickster> Sure, depending on the extent of changes
12:26 < quaid> ok, how about we tell everyone on list that we are not
going to try to deliver anything for F7 except the relnotes modules,
FIG, FUG, and Yum guide
12:26 < couf> I'm guessing it's gonna be all new content
12:27 < quaid> and get the lead writers for those to specify right away
what help they need
12:27 < quaid> so it can get done
12:27 < stickster> I think Rahul snapped up a couple people for this
work just recently on the list (?)
12:27 < stickster> I don't know what they've done, though, since I
haven't seen much in the way of wiki commits.
12:28 < couf> I know he's got 1 or 2 guys, but not sure what's going on
12:28 < JonRob> he asked for help and pointed us in direction of the
12:28 < JonRob> (hi btw)
12:28 < JonRob> i've been waiting for a break in my schedule to get
started, and i suppose the same is true of others
12:29 < couf>
12:29 * stickster sees yumex at top of list and rolls his eyes
12:31 < couf> yeah, we should choose pirut or yumex
12:31 < jmbuser> I did the proposed topics and they certainly are not
cast in stone
12:31 < stickster> couf: pirut, clearly.
12:31 < couf> stickster: my guess, yes :)
12:31 < jmbuser> Feel free to change them as needed
12:32 < stickster> Well, let's not get into the weeds here. Point is,
as quaid said, if work is needed somewhere, post for assistance
12:32 < stickster> We need to carry more traffic and issues to the list
12:32 * stickster is scribbling away on IG, and should be able to
handle the work there
12:33 < quaid> stickster: uh, are you sure?
12:33 < couf> stickster: thank you
12:33 < stickster> yeah, I think so
12:33 < quaid> ok
12:34 < quaid> spin up a build soon and ask for comments, perhaps
12:34 < stickster> quaid: Actually, I was just going to say....
12:34 < stickster> (and this is for everyone)
12:34 < stickster> A GREAT way of looking at current state of docs is to
use yelp, the GNOME help browser.
12:34 < stickster> Do a CVS checkout of the doc, then do "make
12:35 < stickster> then run "yelp file://$PWD/en_US/<nameofdoc>.xml"
12:35 < stickster> That's how I do spot checks, it removes the need for
12:35 * couf gotta run -- dinner
12:35 < stickster> The less extra work required, the more likely it will
get done! :-D
12:35 < stickster> yelp reads DocBook automatically. A little of the
presentation might differ, but that's trivial.
12:36 < quaid> well, you'll get more eyes with an HTTP URL :), but maybe
it's not required
12:36 * glezos is happy to note that it reads localized documents as
12:36 < stickster> glezos: yup
12:36 < glezos> stickster: great info, thanks. Do send an email on the
lists about this..
12:37 < stickster> glezos: good point, will do
12:37 < glezos> much easier to proofread than a browser
12:37 < jmbuser> +1
12:40 < stickster> Anything else on this topic or is everyone napping
12:41 < JonRob> so what are the immediate goals?
12:41 < stickster> JonRob: For what?
12:41 < JonRob> FUG, FIG and SIG?
12:41 < JonRob> with regard to the guides
12:41 < stickster> FIG -- none from here, I'm working on it.
12:41 < JonRob> ok
12:42 < stickster> SMG -- Rahul is in charge, please ping him on the
12:42 < JonRob> yeah ok
12:42 < JonRob> just thought it would be good to have it clearly laid
12:42 < jmbuser> I volunteered to lead the FUG - I plan to do a marathon
session if need be
12:42 < stickster> JonRob: I see two bullets on the front matter of the
SMG -- 1. check for changes in F7
12:42 < stickster> 2. see WorkingNotes for new items to add
12:43 < stickster> JonRob: Have you a working Rawhide system?
12:43 < JonRob> i plan to install test 4 once it's released
12:43 < stickster> JonRob: It was released on Thursday
12:43 < JonRob> oh i missed that one!
12:43 < JonRob> well then yes, i will do soon
12:43 < stickster> JonRob: Once yo uhave it installed, read the content
and check the instructions it gives against your system, and make
changes as needed to match reality
12:44 < JonRob> ok :D
12:44 < stickster> Once the existing material has been checked and
verified, you can move on to new stuff
12:44 < stickster> Just my opinion, maybe Rahul's is different, so I
don't want to step on his toes
12:44 < JonRob> ok sorry, i think accidentaly sidetracked things there -
wasn't my intention!
12:45 < stickster> Not a problem, just trying to emphasize that
proactivity is a good rule, it's easier to get forgiveness than
12:45 * stickster says, as he mucks up CVS with hubris
12:45 < stickster> Tommy would be so proud! :-D
12:46 < jmbuser> I just got F7T4 LiveCD ISO yesterday downloaded and
burned, and plan to install to hard drive ASAP
12:46 < stickster> jmbuser: That should work fine for testing yum, I'd
12:46 * glezos notes that quote from stickster... a really good one..
12:47 < stickster> Make sure after you install you update yum from
Rawhide -- it just got a heck of a lot faster in the last 24 hours!
12:47 < jmbuser> stickster: ok
12:47 < stickster> jmbuser: Sorry, I think I just confused you with
12:47 < JonRob> sure
12:47 < stickster> sorry 2x
12:47 * quaid is sorry, bit distracting here this morning
12:47 < stickster> Everyone's sorry, see?
12:48 < jmbuser> sorry
12:48 < stickster> So, there's really not much left on the agenda, just
12:48 < stickster> :_D
12:49 * glezos looked up AOB in wikipedia and wonders if it is an
acronym for 'Antyfaszystowska Organizacja Bojowa'
12:50 < JonRob> haha
12:50 < stickster> All Other Bidnez
12:50 < jmbuser> lol
12:50 < stickster> anyone?
12:50 < glezos> oh, a Q
12:51 < glezos> about l10n
12:51 < stickster> glezos: go
12:51 < jmbuser> stcikster: Can I run yum anyway?
12:51 < stickster> jmbuser: uh... sure :-)
12:51 < glezos> did we notice a decrease of docs translations in F7 or
an increase? Asking because we were worried if it would be a good idea
for Docs not to use elvis for this release
12:51 < quaid> hmmm, good question ...
12:51 < stickster> yes it is
12:52 < quaid> ha! I just threw out my fc6 checkout ...
12:52 < stickster> glezos: I can't tell you activity-related stats but
you can see from the stats on the wiki what work has been done
12:52 < quaid> but we can count PO files, right?
12:52 < stickster> sure
12:53 * quaid uses viewcvs
12:53 * stickster thinks he heard glezos volunteer to do the analysis
12:53 < stickster> s/the/an/ since we all know the old saw about stats
12:54 * glezos remembers being given the task without
12:54 < glezos> I'll do it, ok :)
12:54 < glezos> BTW. Maybe its a good time to decide how much percentage
of relnotes translation we would accept, since we have some minutes...
Last year in greek we translated everything but the eclipse and gcc
sections so, technically, we were below 95%.. but I think it was an OK
document to be published
12:54 < stickster> I think 90% is a good mark
12:55 < quaid> ah, good point there
12:55 < stickster> homepage and about-fedora are very small so I think
100% is not a huge requirement
12:55 < BobJensen> stickster: +1
12:55 < glezos> stickster: if the 10% is scattered in the document, it's
a very bad mark, but if it's a particular section (especially a deep,
highly technical one), even 80% would be a good mark
12:55 < glezos> +1 for homepage & rest
12:55 < quaid> I think glezos point is a good one
12:56 < stickster> Well, we have to set a mark somewhere
12:56 < quaid> maybe we can make that guidance clear
12:56 < stickster> 80% is fine by me too, but it needs to be a mark.
12:56 < quaid> is the % mark the right one though?
12:56 < BobJensen> and the mark has to be easy to check
12:56 < stickster> I don't kow, but any mark we set 3.5 days before the
PO deadline is not a super-helpful one for translators
12:56 < stickster> s/kow/know/
12:56 < stickster> BobJensen: +1
12:56 < glezos> I suggest to lower the mark but be very precise on what
we'd like the 20% to be.
12:57 < BobJensen> raw numbers will prevent us from having to manually
browse all the translations
12:57 < glezos> Take a look at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats
12:57 < stickster> BobJensen: and... +1 again
12:58 < BobJensen> if some translation is below that but the translator
had to leave out a section and would like a manual review I think that
perhaps we could look that way
12:58 < glezos> stickster: I agree that it's kind of late... Should have
thought of it earlier. :(
12:58 < stickster> I'm going to recuse myself from this decision, simply
because the work to enforce it is going to be beyond me this cycle.
12:59 < glezos> OTOH, sending an email saying "80% is OK as far as the
20% is a continuous section or two, of the following: ..."
12:59 < stickster> Whatever we decide, it needs to be documented on the
wiki under DocsProject/Schedule for the next release
12:59 < stickster> +email
12:59 < glezos> OK, I'll send an email
12:59 < stickster> Yeah, let's please discuss on the list before we lay
12:59 < glezos> and see what people think.. if a team believes it needs
to loosen the 90% for this release, we can talk about it.
12:59 < BobJensen> "Hey I am at 85% one or two sections are 'untouched'
but the rest is done" would be OK IMO"
13:00 < stickster> We should keep in mind the multi-release goal, though
13:00 < stickster> We are only 3.5 days from deadline for what goes on
13:00 < stickster> There's still a whole additional *3 WEEKS* for the
Web-only release notes version.
13:00 < BobJensen> right
13:01 < stickster> And we can do a post-release fedora-release-notes
package update after the fact, too
13:01 < stickster> Which we ARE going to make use of this release cycle.
13:01 < quaid> how about .... 90% or explain why we should accept it?
13:01 < quaid> so, it forces the review back on the team, if they think
they hit the mark regardless of %, then justify it to u
13:01 < stickster> Where explanation != "we have many users in <LANG>
13:01 < BobJensen> I think keeping the expectation high will make for a
better finish on the project's product
13:01 < quaid> don't make us hunt it down, etc.
13:02 < BobJensen> quaid: +1
13:02 * stickster wants to avoid any self-recriminations around here
about not getting things done on time -- we did a GREAT job getting
things out on time this release, and we allowed MORE translation time
than ever before
13:02 < quaid> glezos: does that seem fair to you?
13:03 < quaid> processes++
13:03 < glezos> quaid: didn't really understand it, sorry
13:03 < quaid> glezos: like this ...
13:04 < quaid> glezos: we send a reminder email that 90% is the mark,
but that we understand that it matters what is left untranslated in such
a case, so ...
13:04 < quaid> glezos: the reminder email says that we are going to
stick with 90%, but if a translator/team thinks they hit the mark or did
13:04 < quaid> they need to send in a "request for exception"
13:05 < quaid> and that triggers a review, so we look through the
translation and see if it is indeed good enouhg.
13:05 < glezos> OK. I guess I'll be the one handling the
13:05 < BobJensen> we can be flexible if there is a good reason for it
13:05 < stickster> I think the decision should be made by a team of Docs
folks including glezos
13:05 < quaid> glezos: well, could be :) ... but we mainly need to find
editor help to say, "yeah, good enough"
13:06 < quaid> team approach++
13:06 < stickster> We do it *on the list*
13:06 < glezos> stickster: glad you said that. :)
13:06 < quaid> co'
13:06 < glezos> wouldn't want to tackle this alone
13:06 < stickster> right
13:06 < quaid> btw, did anyone else notice the bogus "release notes" in
the test4 announcement?
13:06 < glezos> OK, I'm writing the email now to get it over with
13:07 < stickster> Well, I wouldn't say bogus since it appears they were
compiled from our actual relnotes, but yes
13:07 * quaid wrote a kind of harsh email about that he needs to mellow
down a bit
13:07 < quaid> stickster: were they recent?
13:07 < stickster> Yes, like 24-48 hours before release apparently
13:07 < stickster> Looks like wwoods did it -- he may not be cognizant
of our processes yet
13:08 < quaid> hmmm, not for a lack of trying
13:08 < jmbuser> I thought they kind of came out of nowhere
13:08 < quaid> stickster: it looked like it contained content not in the
13:08 < stickster> hm
13:08 < stickster> Well, Rahul did a few updates over the last few days
that will be in the Web-only version, wonder if that was inclusive
13:09 < quaid> ok, I'll find a way to email wwoods without being a jerk
about it :)
13:09 < stickster> IYDM could you cc me and/or f-docs-l?
13:09 < stickster> (latter if appropriate)
13:09 < quaid> it's just, you know, we worked are arses off to get the
notes in the ISO and on the Web, and we scored one deep link in that
whole announcement and that's it
13:10 < quaid> stickster: yeah, you and jesse are on it, since it's a
release process we need to work out
13:11 < stickster> OK, I'll jump in with $0.02
13:11 < stickster> I think maybe he got the mistaken impression from our
test1-test3 process that test4 would go the same way, regardless of our
repeated statements at the top saying "real relnotes coming in
13:12 < stickster> We could be real bastards and redirect the wiki page
13:12 < JonRob> *wonders if this will all be in the meeting minutes :D
13:12 < stickster> Certainly
13:12 < stickster> We always dump an IRC log
13:13 < stickster> OK, are we about done then?
13:13 * jmbuser thinks transparency is a good thing
13:13 < quaid> yes, thanks :)
13:13 * stickster needs to jet and get some other things done, then
return to FIG
13:14 < jmbuser> +1
13:14 < stickster> not that it concerns anyone else :-D
13:14 * stickster ego--
13:16 < BobJensen> +1 to wrap it up
13:17 < jmbuser> agreed
13:18 < stickster> Someone needs to volunteer to mail log and minutes,
and post links as shown in
13:19 < jmbuser> that would be me :-)
13:19 < stickster> sweet
13:19 < jmbuser> who wants to count it down?
13:20 < EvilBob> 5, 4, 3, 2, 1
13:21 < stickster> </meeting>
Rather than doing temporary builds of documents, you can use the yelp
GNOME Help Browser to read DocBook documents directly. To read a
document "under construction" in CVS, do the following:
1. Checkout the document:
$ export CVSROOT=:ext:<username>@cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs
$ cvs co install-guide-devel
2. Validate the XML to ensure all the dependency files are bulit:
$ cd install-guide-devel/install-guide
$ make validate-xml-<LANG> # <LANG> = en_US, pt, ...
3. Open the document "parent" file in yelp:
$ yelp file://$PWD/<LANG>/fedora-install-guide.xml
As you make changes, you can hit Ctrl+R in yelp to reload the changes
immediately. This is also far easier than rebuilding to see your
changes in HTML!
Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrieldsirc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug