April 2007 - docs - Fedora mailing-lists

Fragmentation in Linux Documentation?
by Rahul Sundaram 21 May '07

21 May '07

Hi Fedora docs are linked from the story line. Useful thing to keep in mind that we are constantly serving a bigger audience http://ask.slashdot.org/askslashdot/07/04/18/2312218.shtml Rahul

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Self Introduction: Frank
by Francis Earl 21 May '07

21 May '07

My real name is Francis Earl, for obvious reason however, I prefer Frank. I currently reside in Phoenix, Arizona. (PST) I'm currently not working, however I am 3 classes from an AAS in Network Technology. My primary purpose for joining the arts team is to hopefully make entry easier for people interested in Fedora. I wish to do this by providing information on fedoraproject.org that will hopefully assist them in getting started. I believe that other projects are so popular because the requirements for entry are lower, and hopefully I'll help ensure Fedora starts down a similar path. I was an early contributor to Ubuntu documentation, and have made contributions to many OpenSUSE wiki pages. These are mostly related to what normal users will want to do when they get started, very basic things explained because I was sick of answering them in the IRC channels, and also to remind me of the process :) I don't think anything really makes me an excellent match for the project. I think I simply have the time to write the pages many would find tedious, things directed at new users. Everyone was one once though, and I don't know about you, but it was very confusing for me. There are no User Manuals for Fedora users, I believe the wiki should become exactly that. A User Manual for Users by Users, and I don't think such things can be written by anyone but the users :) I feel like I just went through an interview process, is that really the feel people want for contribution to the project? ------------------------------------------------- [fearl@thabox ~]$ gpg --fingerprint 7BDB4407 pub 1024D/7BDB4407 2007-04-29 Key fingerprint = 7125 6099 AAEF C64F 3F3E DC5F 9172 8F72 7BDB 4407 uid Frank Earl (Trey) <lunitik(a)gmail.com> sub 2048g/590237A4 2007-04-29

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Wiki starting points? Drafts...
by Francis Earl 02 May '07

02 May '07

I'm looking for somewhere to get started on the wiki, and I'm not sure where to proceed? This lead me to the Drafts wiki page, am I free to edit these pages as I see fit? What is the etiquette here? Just looking briefly at the "Getting Started" page, I believe a few improvements could be made. It's overtone is very professional, which is intimidating. I also think things like Graphic User Interface and Window Manager should provide links to wikipedia so the user can learn more about the topic if they wish. Wikipedia is provided in the Free Content bookmarks folder in Fedora 7t4, so I don't think that would be an issue? I think the wiki is the wrong place to try and explain such things though. Also, I don't see a way to upload images? There is a saying "a picture tells a thousand words", and I believe it's true. I don't even see a way to add images though? Screenshots (of a particular section of relevance on the desktop) would greatly clarify what things say, and provide an air of confidence for the user "I must be doing it right, it looks the same". Just some thoughts...

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DTDs soon available via PUBLIC URI
by Paul W. Frields 01 May '07

01 May '07

We use two specialty DTDs in the Docs Project, "rpm-info.dtd" and "entities.dtd". Using SGML, these DTDs define the elements and attributes allowed in an XML file which subscribes to them. When you declare a document type using an XML DTD, you must provide a URI for that DTD, either using the SYSTEM or PUBLIC type. A SYSTEM type declaration is always a file local to your system, and that's the kind we've made use of for our "rpm-info" and "entities" specialty files in the Docs Project. A typical DTD in one of our "rpm-info.xml" files might look like this: <!DOCTYPE rpm-info SYSTEM "../../docs-common/packaging/rpm-info.dtd"> But what happens when docs-common is located somewhere different on another contributor's system? This can now happen since we have different module targets for CVS, such as "release-notes" or "release-notes-devel" or "release-notes-devel-dir". Enter the PUBLIC type declaration. The PUBLIC type is used for a DTD that's available, well, publicly. :-) Things like DocBook XML use PUBLIC DTDs because you can find the DTD on the web in several locations, including: http://www.docbook.org/xml/4.4/docbookx.dtd http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.4/docbookx.dtd A PUBLIC DTD always has a "formal public identifier" (FPI) that sets that DTD apart from all others, but allows the same DTD to be published in many different places without any confusion. For instance, the DocBook XML 4.4 is always: "-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML 4.4//EN" ...no matter whether it's published at www.docbook.org, www.oasis-open.org, or available locally on your Fedora system in your /usr/share/sgml/docbook/xml-dtd-4.4-1.0-30.1/ folder. It's perfectly permissible to make your own FPIs as long as you don't use another DTD's FPI. (And of course you should play nice and not make it hard for people to tell it's yours.) I've recently made the following FPIs for our rpm-info and entities DTD files: "-//Fedora//DTD Docs RPM-INFO V1.0//EN" "-//Fedora//DTD Docs ENTITIES V1.0//EN" I'm also publishing them at the following URLs, respectively: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/dtds/rpm-info.dtd http://docs.fedoraproject.org/dtds/entities.dtd This means that all our rpm-info and entities documents can start using those URIs to avoid pesky validation errors when your docs-common/ directory ends up in a different place than it was when the rpm-info or entities XML was first written. If you have an XML-aware editor that's net-savvy, it will automatically retrieve the DTD over the network and validate using it. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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Freeze date bump, deadline extended
by Paul W. Frields 30 Apr '07

30 Apr '07

With the bump of the freeze date¹, we now have an extra 7 days for translation time. The Docs team will probably import a few small changes for late-breaking release notes that did not arrive in time to be included in the POT. There should only be a few strings worth of differences. The new deadline will be: * * * 23:59 UTC Thursday, 10 May 2007 * * * Thank you all for your outstanding efforts -- the results are being compiled approximately every day on the wiki.² = = = ¹ http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-April/msg01449.html ² http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation/Statistics -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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changed filename 'dir' tags
by Teta Bilianou 29 Apr '07

29 Apr '07

I just noticed that in some occasions (eg. en_US/Installer.xml:210(para)), the tag <filename> is used for the /etc directory, whereas in the past it used to be <filename class=\"directory\">. Which one is the appropriate? Should we update it in our translations or should we leave it as is because it will change back in the future? Regards, Teta

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FDSCo Meeting 2007-04-29 Summary
by John Babich 29 Apr '07

29 Apr '07

Attendees: ----------- Paul Frields (stickster) Bob Jensen (BobJensen, EvilBob) John Babich (jmbuser) Dimitris Glezos (glezos) Kushal Das (kushal) Karsten Wade (quaid) Bart Couvreur (couf) Ville-Pekka Vainio (vpv) Jonathan Roberts (jonrob) Summary: --------- 1. F7 release notes status * [stickster] Dumped an update for the postats (and a new, less locally-dependent script) on the wiki last night: see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation/Statistics * The deadline is 2359 UTC on May 02 2007, so about 3.5 days left. 2. Discussion of completeness required for translations (part 1) * 90% of translation is customary percentage to be considered for inclusion in final release. * New RPM with additional translations can be made for later spins and updates. 3. Guide schedule and status * Docs team a little behind on guides due to new features in the distro. * [stickster] Wrote email during meeting, https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-April/msg00199.html, on great way to look at current state of docs by using yelp, the GNOME help browser. * [stickster] Continue work on Fedora Implementation Guide (FIG). * [jmbuser] Continue update of Fedora User Guide (FUG). * [JonRob) Get status on System Management Guide (SMG) from Rahul (mether). * [glezos] Do an analysis of PO files completed. 4. Discussion of completeness required for translations (part 2) * [all] If a translation is below 90%, but translator had to leave out a section and would like a manual review, we should do so as a team. * [glezos] Sent email during meeting on this topic to list, see https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-April/msg00201.html. 5. F7T4 "release notes" * [quaid] During meeting, mailed wwoods (cc: stickster and Jesse Keating) concerning proper process for publishing official release notes. -- -- John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project

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Docs translations: About completion percentages
by Dimitris Glezos 29 Apr '07

29 Apr '07

Hey all. So, in 3 days we have the deadline for the release notes translations. F7 is coming. Yay! :) As some of you might already know, to keep the quality of our published Docs high, we have set a high bar for how much of a document could be translated before being published. So, for example, for small documents like 'homepage' and 'about-fedora', we aim to only publish documents completely translated and for larger documents, like 'release-notes', we've set the bar to 90%. This 90% is kind of tricky, because if a document has a 5% of untranslated strings scattered everywhere the document then its quality is lower than a document having 15% of untranslated strings in an "untouched" section or two (especially if these sections are not popular or are buried down in the doc). So, here's a plan: if some language teams believe their 'release-notes' translation is under 90% *but* the untranslated strings are not important, then please send an email to -docs-list and we can see if the document is in a publishable state. Having this in mind while translating sounds like a good idea as well (translate important stuff first tackling section-by-section in final stages). Also, bear in mind that in this release we are planning on releasing an update on the release notes both on the web and on the desktop via an updated RPM. Finally, reminding that the quick-n-dirty stats page is up at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation/Statistics Hopefully we'll see in the next 3 days 100% translations of the small docs and complete-enough translations of the highly important release notes. Keep up the good work. :) -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos(a)jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) --

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FDSCo Meeting 2007-04-29 IRC log
by John Babich 29 Apr '07

29 Apr '07

12:10 < stickster> <meeting> 12:10 < BobJensen> I say go for it 12:10 < stickster> Hi everybody! 12:11 < jmbuser> hello 12:11 < stickster> Present right now are stickster, BobJensen, and jmbuser; couf will be along shortly, and quaid may amble in at some point 12:11 < BobJensen> Greetings 12:11 < stickster> Item: release notes status 12:11 < stickster> So we had a successful drop to the L10N folks, and translations are proceeding apace. 12:12 < stickster> I dumped an update for the postats (and a new, less locally-dependent script) on the wiki last night: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation/Statistics 12:12 < jmbuser> stickster: Congrats 12:12 < stickster> The deadline is 2359 UTC on May 02 2007, so about 3.5 days left 12:13 < kushal> stickster, have a question ? 12:13 < stickster> Several locales are completely done, not as many as we'd like but fine work so far 12:13 < stickster> kushal: go 12:13 < kushal> stickster, is 100% is required to be in ISO ? 12:14 < kushal> l10n 12:14 < quaid> oi 12:14 < kushal> EOF 12:14 < stickster> kushal: For release notes, it will probably be something in the 90% range 12:14 < BobJensen> We have used 90% in the past 12:14 < stickster> kushal: If it's not that high, you can still get an entry in the Web-only release that comes a week or two afterward 12:14 < kushal> stickster, and other pages like homepage, readme 12:15 < kushal> stickster, I am only guy here for bn_IN :) 12:15 < stickster> kushal: We are going to do a more proactive job of updating the fedora-release-notes package this release cycle 12:15 < kushal> stickster, will try to be in 905 12:16 < stickster> So if it's not ready for the ISO, you will still be able to get a later release with a new RPM 12:16 * couf is alive 12:16 < kushal> s/905/90% 12:16 < stickster> The problem is having a half-done translation on the installation program does not look very attractive 12:16 < kushal> stickster, Yes 12:16 < stickster> But if the goal is functionality for later spins including updates, we can just make a new RPM later including the new translations 12:17 < kushal> I will do my best 12:17 < stickster> kushal: we know you will -- much appreciated 12:17 < kushal> thank you 12:17 < stickster> kushal: If you want, get the homepage and about-fedora done first and then worry about release-notes 12:17 < quaid> now would be a good time for us to hear if there is going to be a schedule slip for the final release; that is, one that effects our schedule 12:17 < kushal> stickster, both done 12:18 < vpv> will release-notes get into ISO if it completely translated but about-fedora, homepage etc. are not complete? 12:18 < kushal> stickster, readme is also covered 12:18 < stickster> kushal: as of last night I see 32/8 for your about-fedora and 32/5 for homepage 12:18 < BobJensen> vpv: yes, they are separate modules now as I understand it 12:19 < kushal> stickster, yes, still confused with some words :p 12:19 < stickster> vpv: Asked and answered 12:19 < kushal> stickster, those will be fixed tomorrow 12:19 < stickster> kushal: thanks 12:19 < stickster> OK, let's move on, we can pick up other L10N questions after the meeting 12:19 < vpv> BobJensen: thanks 12:19 < stickster> quaid: +1 on schedule slip... don't know anything yet about one 12:19 < stickster> BobJensen: +1 12:20 < glezos> hi ya all. Sorry for being late. I'll try to be around, doing some other obligations at the same time 12:20 < stickster> glezos: HI!! 12:20 < glezos> stickster: :) 12:20 < stickster> Wow, our attendance has swelled :-) 12:20 * stickster hands gavel to quaid thinking we're done with topic #1 12:21 < couf> yep, let's move on 12:21 < jmbuser> +1 12:21 < quaid> oh, joy! 12:22 < quaid> let's talk about them guides ... 12:22 < stickster> so... guide schedule. :-\ 12:22 < stickster> I'll come right out and say we're a little behind here. I am working on the IG now (like, last few days) 12:22 * quaid admittedly isn't having a great insight about this. 12:23 < stickster> And I think I may be ready for the scheduled PO drop 12:23 < quaid> ok, that we can talk about 12:23 < stickster> But there are things that have happened in the distro that I didn't even expect over the last month, which has put me further behind :-( 12:23 < quaid> we don't want to be in the position of pushing content for trans that isn't really ready, right? 12:23 < stickster> Correct 12:23 < couf> quaid: +1 12:24 < stickster> But we don't want a blank space for the IG for F7 eithre 12:24 < stickster> *either 12:24 < couf> any probable changes to anaconda coming (/me guesses not) 12:24 < quaid> well, IG is one thing, yes 12:24 < stickster> There's the FUG also 12:25 < quaid> we're at the time to focus all our energies on only the FUG and FIG 12:25 < quaid> everything else, well 12:25 < stickster> I think mether has some work going on the Yum guide 12:25 < stickster> But he's doing that on the wiki, so meh 12:25 < quaid> meh 12:25 * stickster doesn't care for shepherding wiki docs anymore, too big a PITA 12:25 < quaid> so there is a conversion back, maybe we can use the Info for that 12:26 < stickster> Sure, depending on the extent of changes 12:26 < quaid> ok, how about we tell everyone on list that we are not going to try to deliver anything for F7 except the relnotes modules, FIG, FUG, and Yum guide 12:26 < couf> I'm guessing it's gonna be all new content 12:27 < quaid> and get the lead writers for those to specify right away what help they need 12:27 < quaid> so it can get done 12:27 < stickster> I think Rahul snapped up a couple people for this work just recently on the list (?) 12:27 < stickster> I don't know what they've done, though, since I haven't seen much in the way of wiki commits. 12:28 < couf> I know he's got 1 or 2 guys, but not sure what's going on there 12:28 < JonRob> he asked for help and pointed us in direction of the "working notes" 12:28 < JonRob> (hi btw) 12:28 < JonRob> i've been waiting for a break in my schedule to get started, and i suppose the same is true of others 12:29 < couf> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/SoftwareManagementGuide/WorkingNo… 12:29 * stickster sees yumex at top of list and rolls his eyes 12:31 < couf> yeah, we should choose pirut or yumex 12:31 < jmbuser> I did the proposed topics and they certainly are not cast in stone 12:31 < stickster> couf: pirut, clearly. 12:31 < couf> stickster: my guess, yes :) 12:31 < jmbuser> Feel free to change them as needed 12:32 < stickster> Well, let's not get into the weeds here. Point is, as quaid said, if work is needed somewhere, post for assistance 12:32 < stickster> We need to carry more traffic and issues to the list 12:32 * stickster is scribbling away on IG, and should be able to handle the work there 12:33 < quaid> stickster: uh, are you sure? 12:33 < couf> stickster: thank you 12:33 < stickster> yeah, I think so 12:33 < quaid> ok 12:34 < quaid> spin up a build soon and ask for comments, perhaps 12:34 < stickster> quaid: Actually, I was just going to say.... 12:34 < stickster> (and this is for everyone) 12:34 < stickster> A GREAT way of looking at current state of docs is to use yelp, the GNOME help browser. 12:34 < stickster> Do a CVS checkout of the doc, then do "make validate-xml-en_US" 12:35 < stickster> then run "yelp file://$PWD/en_US/<nameofdoc>.xml" 12:35 < stickster> That's how I do spot checks, it removes the need for a build. 12:35 * couf gotta run -- dinner 12:35 < stickster> The less extra work required, the more likely it will get done! :-D 12:35 < stickster> yelp reads DocBook automatically. A little of the presentation might differ, but that's trivial. 12:36 < quaid> well, you'll get more eyes with an HTTP URL :), but maybe it's not required 12:36 * glezos is happy to note that it reads localized documents as well. 12:36 < stickster> glezos: yup 12:36 < glezos> stickster: great info, thanks. Do send an email on the lists about this.. 12:37 < stickster> glezos: good point, will do 12:37 < glezos> much easier to proofread than a browser 12:37 < jmbuser> +1 12:40 < stickster> Anything else on this topic or is everyone napping now? 12:41 < JonRob> so what are the immediate goals? 12:41 < stickster> JonRob: For what? 12:41 < JonRob> FUG, FIG and SIG? 12:41 < JonRob> with regard to the guides 12:41 < stickster> FIG -- none from here, I'm working on it. 12:41 < JonRob> ok 12:42 < stickster> SMG -- Rahul is in charge, please ping him on the list 12:42 < JonRob> yeah ok 12:42 < JonRob> just thought it would be good to have it clearly laid out 12:42 < jmbuser> I volunteered to lead the FUG - I plan to do a marathon session if need be 12:42 < stickster> JonRob: I see two bullets on the front matter of the SMG -- 1. check for changes in F7 12:42 < stickster> 2. see WorkingNotes for new items to add 12:43 < stickster> JonRob: Have you a working Rawhide system? 12:43 < JonRob> i plan to install test 4 once it's released 12:43 < stickster> JonRob: It was released on Thursday 12:43 < JonRob> oh i missed that one! 12:43 < JonRob> well then yes, i will do soon 12:43 < stickster> JonRob: Once yo uhave it installed, read the content and check the instructions it gives against your system, and make changes as needed to match reality 12:44 < JonRob> ok :D 12:44 < stickster> Once the existing material has been checked and verified, you can move on to new stuff 12:44 < stickster> Just my opinion, maybe Rahul's is different, so I don't want to step on his toes 12:44 < JonRob> ok sorry, i think accidentaly sidetracked things there - wasn't my intention! 12:45 < stickster> Not a problem, just trying to emphasize that proactivity is a good rule, it's easier to get forgiveness than permission 12:45 * stickster says, as he mucks up CVS with hubris 12:45 < stickster> Tommy would be so proud! :-D 12:46 < jmbuser> I just got F7T4 LiveCD ISO yesterday downloaded and burned, and plan to install to hard drive ASAP 12:46 < stickster> jmbuser: That should work fine for testing yum, I'd think 12:46 * glezos notes that quote from stickster... a really good one.. 12:47 < stickster> Make sure after you install you update yum from Rawhide -- it just got a heck of a lot faster in the last 24 hours! 12:47 < jmbuser> stickster: ok 12:47 < stickster> jmbuser: Sorry, I think I just confused you with JonRob, sorry 12:47 < JonRob> sure 12:47 < stickster> sorry 2x 12:47 * quaid is sorry, bit distracting here this morning 12:47 < stickster> Everyone's sorry, see? 12:48 < jmbuser> sorry 12:48 < stickster> So, there's really not much left on the agenda, just AOB 12:48 < stickster> :_D 12:49 * glezos looked up AOB in wikipedia and wonders if it is an acronym for 'Antyfaszystowska Organizacja Bojowa' 12:50 < JonRob> haha 12:50 < stickster> All Other Bidnez 12:50 < jmbuser> lol 12:50 < stickster> anyone? 12:50 < glezos> oh, a Q 12:51 < glezos> about l10n 12:51 < stickster> glezos: go 12:51 < jmbuser> stcikster: Can I run yum anyway? 12:51 < stickster> jmbuser: uh... sure :-) 12:51 < glezos> did we notice a decrease of docs translations in F7 or an increase? Asking because we were worried if it would be a good idea for Docs not to use elvis for this release 12:51 < quaid> hmmm, good question ... 12:51 < stickster> yes it is 12:52 < quaid> ha! I just threw out my fc6 checkout ... 12:52 < stickster> glezos: I can't tell you activity-related stats but you can see from the stats on the wiki what work has been done 12:52 < quaid> but we can count PO files, right? 12:52 < stickster> sure 12:53 * quaid uses viewcvs 12:53 * stickster thinks he heard glezos volunteer to do the analysis 12:53 < stickster> s/the/an/ since we all know the old saw about stats 12:54 * glezos remembers being given the task without volunteering... :) 12:54 < glezos> I'll do it, ok :) 12:54 < glezos> BTW. Maybe its a good time to decide how much percentage of relnotes translation we would accept, since we have some minutes... Last year in greek we translated everything but the eclipse and gcc sections so, technically, we were below 95%.. but I think it was an OK document to be published 12:54 < stickster> I think 90% is a good mark 12:55 < quaid> ah, good point there 12:55 < stickster> homepage and about-fedora are very small so I think 100% is not a huge requirement 12:55 < BobJensen> stickster: +1 12:55 < glezos> stickster: if the 10% is scattered in the document, it's a very bad mark, but if it's a particular section (especially a deep, highly technical one), even 80% would be a good mark 12:55 < glezos> +1 for homepage & rest 12:55 < quaid> I think glezos point is a good one 12:56 < stickster> Well, we have to set a mark somewhere 12:56 < quaid> maybe we can make that guidance clear 12:56 < stickster> 80% is fine by me too, but it needs to be a mark. 12:56 < quaid> is the % mark the right one though? 12:56 < BobJensen> and the mark has to be easy to check 12:56 < stickster> I don't kow, but any mark we set 3.5 days before the PO deadline is not a super-helpful one for translators 12:56 < stickster> s/kow/know/ 12:56 < stickster> BobJensen: +1 12:56 < glezos> I suggest to lower the mark but be very precise on what we'd like the 20% to be. 12:57 < BobJensen> raw numbers will prevent us from having to manually browse all the translations 12:57 < glezos> Take a look at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats 12:57 < stickster> BobJensen: and... +1 again 12:58 < BobJensen> if some translation is below that but the translator had to leave out a section and would like a manual review I think that perhaps we could look that way 12:58 < glezos> stickster: I agree that it's kind of late... Should have thought of it earlier. :( 12:58 < stickster> I'm going to recuse myself from this decision, simply because the work to enforce it is going to be beyond me this cycle. 12:59 < glezos> OTOH, sending an email saying "80% is OK as far as the 20% is a continuous section or two, of the following: ..." 12:59 < stickster> Whatever we decide, it needs to be documented on the wiki under DocsProject/Schedule for the next release 12:59 < stickster> +email 12:59 < glezos> OK, I'll send an email 12:59 < stickster> Yeah, let's please discuss on the list before we lay anything down 12:59 < glezos> and see what people think.. if a team believes it needs to loosen the 90% for this release, we can talk about it. 12:59 < BobJensen> "Hey I am at 85% one or two sections are 'untouched' but the rest is done" would be OK IMO" 13:00 < stickster> We should keep in mind the multi-release goal, though -- 13:00 < stickster> We are only 3.5 days from deadline for what goes on the ISO. 13:00 < stickster> There's still a whole additional *3 WEEKS* for the Web-only release notes version. 13:00 < BobJensen> right 13:01 < stickster> And we can do a post-release fedora-release-notes package update after the fact, too 13:01 < stickster> Which we ARE going to make use of this release cycle. 13:01 < quaid> how about .... 90% or explain why we should accept it? 13:01 < quaid> so, it forces the review back on the team, if they think they hit the mark regardless of %, then justify it to u 13:01 < stickster> Where explanation != "we have many users in <LANG> locale" 13:01 < BobJensen> I think keeping the expectation high will make for a better finish on the project's product 13:01 < quaid> don't make us hunt it down, etc. 13:02 < BobJensen> quaid: +1 13:02 * stickster wants to avoid any self-recriminations around here about not getting things done on time -- we did a GREAT job getting things out on time this release, and we allowed MORE translation time than ever before 13:02 < quaid> glezos: does that seem fair to you? 13:03 < quaid> processes++ 13:03 < glezos> quaid: didn't really understand it, sorry 13:03 < quaid> glezos: like this ... 13:04 < quaid> glezos: we send a reminder email that 90% is the mark, but that we understand that it matters what is left untranslated in such a case, so ... 13:04 < quaid> glezos: the reminder email says that we are going to stick with 90%, but if a translator/team thinks they hit the mark or did good enough 13:04 < quaid> they need to send in a "request for exception" 13:05 < quaid> and that triggers a review, so we look through the translation and see if it is indeed good enouhg. 13:05 < glezos> OK. I guess I'll be the one handling the exceptions...? :) 13:05 < BobJensen> we can be flexible if there is a good reason for it 13:05 < stickster> I think the decision should be made by a team of Docs folks including glezos 13:05 < quaid> glezos: well, could be :) ... but we mainly need to find editor help to say, "yeah, good enough" 13:06 < quaid> team approach++ 13:06 < stickster> We do it *on the list* 13:06 < glezos> stickster: glad you said that. :) 13:06 < quaid> co' 13:06 < glezos> wouldn't want to tackle this alone 13:06 < stickster> right 13:06 < quaid> btw, did anyone else notice the bogus "release notes" in the test4 announcement? 13:06 < glezos> OK, I'm writing the email now to get it over with 13:07 < stickster> Well, I wouldn't say bogus since it appears they were compiled from our actual relnotes, but yes 13:07 * quaid wrote a kind of harsh email about that he needs to mellow down a bit 13:07 < quaid> stickster: were they recent? 13:07 < stickster> Yes, like 24-48 hours before release apparently 13:07 < stickster> Looks like wwoods did it -- he may not be cognizant of our processes yet 13:08 < quaid> hmmm, not for a lack of trying 13:08 < jmbuser> I thought they kind of came out of nowhere 13:08 < quaid> stickster: it looked like it contained content not in the Beats 13:08 < stickster> hm 13:08 < stickster> Well, Rahul did a few updates over the last few days that will be in the Web-only version, wonder if that was inclusive 13:09 < quaid> ok, I'll find a way to email wwoods without being a jerk about it :) 13:09 < stickster> IYDM could you cc me and/or f-docs-l? 13:09 < stickster> (latter if appropriate) 13:09 < quaid> it's just, you know, we worked are arses off to get the notes in the ISO and on the Web, and we scored one deep link in that whole announcement and that's it 13:10 < quaid> stickster: yeah, you and jesse are on it, since it's a release process we need to work out 13:11 < stickster> OK, I'll jump in with $0.02 13:11 < stickster> I think maybe he got the mistaken impression from our test1-test3 process that test4 would go the same way, regardless of our repeated statements at the top saying "real relnotes coming in test4" :-D 13:12 < stickster> We could be real bastards and redirect the wiki page to Docs/Beats 13:12 < JonRob> *wonders if this will all be in the meeting minutes :D 13:12 < stickster> Certainly 13:12 < stickster> We always dump an IRC log 13:13 < stickster> OK, are we about done then? 13:13 * jmbuser thinks transparency is a good thing 13:13 < quaid> yes, thanks :) 13:13 * stickster needs to jet and get some other things done, then return to FIG 13:14 < jmbuser> +1 13:14 < stickster> not that it concerns anyone else :-D 13:14 * stickster ego-- 13:16 < BobJensen> +1 to wrap it up 13:17 < jmbuser> agreed 13:18 < stickster> Someone needs to volunteer to mail log and minutes, and post links as shown in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minutes 13:19 < jmbuser> that would be me :-) 13:19 < stickster> sweet 13:19 < jmbuser> who wants to count it down? 13:20 < EvilBob> 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 13:21 < stickster> </meeting>

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Reading docs from CVS
by Paul W. Frields 29 Apr '07

29 Apr '07

Rather than doing temporary builds of documents, you can use the yelp GNOME Help Browser to read DocBook documents directly. To read a document "under construction" in CVS, do the following: 1. Checkout the document: $ export CVSROOT=:ext:<username>@cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs $ cvs co install-guide-devel 2. Validate the XML to ensure all the dependency files are bulit: $ cd install-guide-devel/install-guide $ make validate-xml-<LANG> # <LANG> = en_US, pt, ... 3. Open the document "parent" file in yelp: $ yelp file://$PWD/<LANG>/fedora-install-guide.xml As you make changes, you can hit Ctrl+R in yelp to reload the changes immediately. This is also far easier than rebuilding to see your changes in HTML! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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Reminder: meeting today at 1600 UTC
by John Babich 29 Apr '07

29 Apr '07

Fedora Docs Team: There is a meeting today on IRC channel #fedora-docs at 1600 UTC. Please update the wiki page http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings with any agenda topics you wish to discuss. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project

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PO stats for release-notes 29 Apr 2007
by Paul W. Frields 28 Apr '07

28 Apr '07

I dumped a new copy of the updated stats to the wiki: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation/Statistics I see a lot of people getting a lot of translation done -- you guys rock. Keep up the great work! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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Re: release-notes/devel/po zh_CN.po,1.21,1.22
by vmlinz 28 Apr '07

28 Apr '07

Hi, Next time there is some work to do, please E-mail me. thanks. sincerely, vmlinz

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One more fuzzy...
by Paul W. Frields 27 Apr '07

27 Apr '07

Sorry folks, I found two more places in the release-notes module where the text referred to "Fedora Core." I fixed the problems and committed, making one more fuzzy string with a very minor change. Thanks for your patience, translators. Hopefully that should be the last of the cleaning for this release! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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PO stats for release-notes etc.
by Paul W. Frields 27 Apr '07

27 Apr '07

Here's the current statistics for translation for Release Notes and other related modules, as of 2200 UTC today, 27 April 2007. I've marked the currently completed translations with a (*): === about-fedora === de: 32/3/5/ el: 38/2/ es: 40/ (*) fr: 35/4/1/ it: 40/ (*) ja: 1/8/31/ ml: 0/40/ ms: 5/12/23/ nl: 40/ (*) pa: 35/1/4/ pl: 40/ (*) pt_BR: 39/1/ pt: 40/ (*) ru: 33/3/4/ sr: 40/ (*) sv: 39/1/ uk: 13/2/25/ zh_CN: 40/ (*) === homepage === de: 1/7/29/ el: 37/ (*) es: 37/ (*) fi: 37/ (*) fr: 37/ (*) it: 37/ (*) ja: 1/7/29/ nl: 37/ (*) pa: 37/ (*) pl: 37/ (*) pt_BR: 37/ (*) pt: 37/ (*) ru: 8/18/11/ sr: 37/ (*) sv: 37/ (*) uk: 1/5/31/ zh_CN: 37/ (*) bn_IN: 29/5/3/ === readme === de: 37/18/9/ el: 60/4/ es: 64/ (*) fr: 40/18/6/ it: 64/ (*) ja: 1/9/54/ nl: 64/ (*) pa: 54/10/ pl: 64/ (*) pt_BR: 64/ (*) pt: 64/ (*) ru: 40/18/6/ sr: 64/ (*) sv: 64/ (*) uk: 35/16/13/ zh_CN: 64/ (*) === readme-burning-isos === de: 54/30/14/ el: 98/ (*) es: 98/ (*) fr: 54/30/14/ it: 98/ (*) ja: 54/34/10/ nl: 93/5/ pa: 24/13/61/ pl: 98/ (*) pt_BR: 76/22/ pt: 98/ (*) ru: 54/30/14/ sr: 98/ (*) sv: 98/ (*) uk: 53/3/42/ zh_CN: 98/ (*) === release-notes === ca: 80/94/350/ cs: 0/11/513/ da: 177/203/144/ de: 112/176/236/ el: 285/190/49/ es: 522/1/1/ fi: 469/35/20/ fr: 140/199/185/ gu: 93/101/330/ hr: 110/86/328/ hu: 200/1/323/ it: 524/ (*) ja: 96/197/231/ ml: 0/524/ ms: 38/66/420/ nb: 23/20/481/ nl: 264/15/245/ pa: 159/106/259/ pl: 185/193/146/ pt_BR: 392/41/91/ pt: 524/ (*) ru: 181/199/144/ sr: 106/157/261/ sv: 458/21/45/ ta: 0/524/ uk: 181/201/142/ zh_CN: 522/1/1/ - - - - - Looks like the Italian and the Portuguese translation teams are up to date on *every single* module that's part of the Fedora release notes package. Congratulations to those teams, and everyone else, keep up the great work! The deadline is not until 2359 UTC on 2 May 2007, so you still have 5 days left to finish any untranslated sections. Thank you to all our volunteers who contribute so much to making Fedora an international success. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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Re: Relnotes typos?
by Paul W. Frields 27 Apr '07

27 Apr '07

On Fri, 2007-04-27 at 13:24 +0100, Miloš Komarčević wrote: > Hi, > > Just noticed a couple of errors while translating that might need some > clarification: > > "Participate in the Fedora Project (<ulink > url="http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/HelpWanted">http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join</ulink>)" > > Guess the link should be updated to reflect the page move from > HelpWanted to Join. > > > "About the Fedora Project (<ulink > url="http://fedoraproject.org/Overview">http://fedoraproject.org/Overview</ulink>)" > > Broken link - missing /wiki/? This would make it identical to "Fedora > Overview" though... Miloš, thank you for catching these! The second is actually a redundant link that I simply removed, but I also fixed the first link to point to Join as agreed upon by project leaders earlier. Another example of why many eyes make better release notes... :-) There is one minor fuzzy string change caused by this fix. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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Current Docs states
by Jonathan Roberts 26 Apr '07

26 Apr '07

Hi, after the meeting on sunday people said it was probably best to carry out discussions about the DUG and the Admin Guide on the list so... I was wondering what the current state of these guides is? What needs doing? etc Also, what needs doing to create the new "todo" list style page? Kind regards, Jon

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where to put this information
by Matthias Clasen 26 Apr '07

26 Apr '07

I recently looked at a bug where somebody wanted to know how to make lpr printers show up in the print dialogs, since in his environment, lpr is used (bug 232009, if you are interested). Our default printing configuration uses cups and we don't want to show two printing systems in the print dialog by default, since that would be confusing. It is however pretty easy to configure GTK+ to show lpr instead of cups (or both, if you want) - if you know how to. I wonder if we have a good place to put this kind of non-default configuration information, maybe a howto section in the wiki, or something like that ? And what (if any) are the steps I should take to make sure that useful information like this finds its way there ? Thanks, Matthias

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Software management guide for Fedora 7
by Rahul Sundaram 24 Apr '07

24 Apr '07

Hi I am working on updating the software management guide at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/SoftwareManagementGuide with the goal of releasing a new version for Fedora 7. What is required primarily? * Make sure that all references to Fedora Core and Fedora Extras are replaced with appropriate details. * Cover all the yum plugins and related utilities available in the repository * Include details on Pirut, Pup and Puplet. More details at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/SoftwareManagementGuide/WorkingNo… I would need a author or two and a editor. Anyone interested? Rahul

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Please allow me to introduce myself
by David McInnis 24 Apr '07

24 Apr '07

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Subject: David McInnis Full legal name: David Anthony McInnis City, Country: Mountain Home, Idaho, United States. Profession: US Air Force F-16 Avionics Technician. Goals in the Fedora Project: What I want to write about: I would like to write about more complex problems, such as getting drivers working. What do you want to see published: I would like to see specific guides for getting certain major brands of hardware i.e. How to get Networking cards up and running. Anything else I would like to do: I would like to get started helping out the Linux community. I'm a Fedora enthusiast and I look forward to making a difference. Historical Qualifications: My Air Force career as a maintainer provides me with constant exposure to highly technical writing. When I repair an aircraft problem I must write out the sometimes highly technical explanation of what I did in layman's terms. Professionally I am committed to a very high standard, and I very much enjoy my work. My computer skills are basically those of a very competent base user. What I mean by that is that I can successfully troubleshoot and repair 80-90% of my Fedora problems with minimal help from the Fedora FAQ Page. I am (almost) totally inept as a programmer. I can give simple BASH commands when needed. My extra skills consist of my logical step-by-step process of overcoming problems and my attention to details. I enjoy working with Linux and I am quite motivated to help you folks out! Sincerely, David McInnis -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGLUvuv1uYYnzlPw0RAlTzAJ9r5ykadM+UXf7kOBaG5IjAJzwg0gCfehmZ 327K/XmiCf719Sh1yTs3KFw= =R6uG -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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introduction as wiki requests
by David A Thompson 24 Apr '07

24 Apr '07

While I'm confident neither with regard to my talent nor the extent of my free time (http://jmbuser.livejournal.com/1450.html) I certainly would like to pitch in with the documentation project if there's a perception I might do more good than damage. I certainly have gotten a lot of mileage out of the Fedora project over the past few years and, as a goal, would love to give a little back. Having a substantial degree of scientific writing experience, I might be useful with "volunteering to edit draft documents" or with "providing feedback on the draft documentation published on the Wiki and the mailing list" (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join) if grammar/structure/clarity issues are significant. On the other hand, If I sound relatively useless, I won't be offended with a candid 'go away'. pub 1024D/332685A5 2007-04-17 Key fingerprint = B517 98A4 1109 A813 C8D1 95C4 728E 5444 3326 85A5 uid David A Thompson <thompson(a)fresno.edu> sub 1024g/C86DB82C 2007-04-17 David Alan Thompson -- Faculty in Biology Fresno Pacific University 1717 S Chestnut Ave Fresno CA 93702 559-453-5504 thompson(a)fresno.edu http://biology.fresno.edu/thomp PS Other 'introductory'-type material: I am a biologist/chemist by trade, although I've been playing with computers back since trying to program my own version of PacMan in machine language on my Commodore 64 back in junior high. I've enjoyed using various versions of unix and linux back since my dad bought me an old Sun in the 90's. These days my 'programming' efforts are mostly confined to cheesy perl scripts and entertaining myself with lisp.

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Self Introduction: Kushal Das
by Kushal Das 24 Apr '07

24 Apr '07

Hi, This is my first mail in the list. My main goal is to spread the words of Fedora and in the same time help others to make it better.I am a Fedora Ambassador from India and I do manage few packages in Fedora repo. In Fedora Docs project, I want to take charges of the translation of the docs in to bn_IN. I wrote some short tutorials on different FOSS tools and some with video ( http://www.ilug-cal.org/wiki/index.php/Tutorials_from_Kushal_Das ) GPGKEY: pub 1024D/2DB3CBFD 2005-12-01 Key fingerprint = 1C5D A020 0DB9 11EB 8A86 690E 58E0 5A4A 2DB3 CBFD uid Kushal Das <kushal(a)fedoraproject.org> uid Kushal Das <kushaldas(a)gmail.com> sub 1024g/BF4C22A4 2005-12-01 Kushal -- Fedora Ambassador, India http://kushaldas.in

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Media handling in Pirut - Docs needed
by Rahul Sundaram 23 Apr '07

23 Apr '07

Hi There is support for media handling in Pirut in the development version but the required auto configuration in Anaconda during installation is not there yet. It currently requires manual configuration to work. See the package changelog for details. If you are interested, take a look at it and write up a documentation for Fedora 7. I told Jeremy Katz that I will be looking at putting this in the release notes itself but ran out of time. We could add a link to another wiki page still or sneak in a help button with details. At any rate, we do need this documentation before the release. Anyone? Rahul

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about-fedora POT change
by Paul W. Frields 23 Apr '07

23 Apr '07

I just made a change to the about-fedora POT/PO -- a very small one removing the word "Core". Only two strings are affected by this trivial change. If you get a chance, please visit the "about-fedora-devel" module and update your PO there. Thank you to everyone! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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这次的relnote还是给我吧
by vmlinz 23 Apr '07

23 Apr '07

Hi, Time again to translate , is there some work on relnotes? If any , how about i Doing it? I just only can spare time to do this. vmlinz

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FDSCo Meeting 2007-04-22 Summary
by Karsten Wade 23 Apr '07

23 Apr '07

Attendees: ----------- Dimitris Glezos (glezos) John Babich (jmbuser) Bob Jensen (BobJensen) Karsten Wade (quaid) Jonathan Roberts (jonrob) Mike McGrath (mmcgrath) Summary: --------- 1. F7 release notes dropped for translation * [glezos] Can gather statistics later to see when translators did their work (commits) to see if the extra days in the schedule are useful 2. Recruiting and retaining contributors for FDP * [all] Discuss on list; empower users to start and maintain their own ideas. * [all] Need to review our world in light of this post Dimitris made: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-March/msg00090.html * [quaid, all] A clear task list for the entire project is needed. Rework/combine DocsProject/SteeringCommitte/TaskSchedule and DocsProject/Tasks. Identify the skill or experience level needed for each task (which helps to identify/separate FDSCo-only tasks). 3. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007 ... FDP has two of the five projects as primary, and a third project we are intimately connected to. For more information, use that page to read up on the separate projects. * [quaid, nman64] Work out the situation with two students from two different *SoC projects working on man/info publishing solutions. 4. F7 guides (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule#guides-schedule) * [all] Project (via mailing list) needs to pick lead writers, writing team, and schedule sto produce the F7 guides - FUG, FIG, FAG. 5. L10n status (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation/Statistics) * [all] Communicate regularly with f-trans-l (multiple times a week); look in CVS commits for "replies" to messages, won't always be on list. * [all] Plan on what we can start to move to Plone; it might leave Wiki-ness behind in favor of XHTML and the Plone editor; Plone handles l10n-per-page very nicely. It is vital that our project website better server non-English speakers by making it easier to translate. * [quaid, mmcgrath] Resolve how docs.fp.o relates to the overall Plone installation on fp.o. 6. [quaid] Talk with John Poelstra, offer FDP to be an early adopter/guinea pig for project management ideas, methodologies, and tools in Fedora. -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

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Re: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Beats/WebServers" by RahulSundaram
by Rahul Sundaram 23 Apr '07

23 Apr '07

Joe Orton wrote: > On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 02:28:42PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Joe Orton wrote: >>> Hi Rahul, why has all the content for the Web Server "beat" been >>> removed? >> We don't support upgrades from Fedora Core 4 to Fedora 7. Only from two >> previous releases. Notes on that is thus not useful. > > OK. Why did you also remove the stuff about apr-util-mysql (relevant to > those upgrading from FC6)? Accidental. Along with the note on Fedora Core 4 it appeared to be left over content from the previous release. Rahul

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Re: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Beats/WebServers" by RahulSundaram
by Rahul Sundaram 23 Apr '07

23 Apr '07

Joe Orton wrote: > Hi Rahul, why has all the content for the Web Server "beat" been > removed? We don't support upgrades from Fedora Core 4 to Fedora 7. Only from two previous releases. Notes on that is thus not useful. Rahul

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FDSCo Meeting 2007-04-22 IRC log
by Karsten Wade 22 Apr '07

22 Apr '07

09:15 < quaid> <meeting> 09:15 < glezos> got carried away in a chinese buffet :) 09:16 < quaid> BobJensen. glezos, couf_away, stickster_afk good morning 09:16 < BobJensen> Morning Karsten 09:16 < glezos> Agenda is here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings 09:16 * BobJensen has company so will be here hit and miss 09:17 < quaid> ok, I can handle the first item easily 09:17 < quaid> we got the final release notes dropped for translation yesterday, it ended up only being about 12 hours late 09:18 < quaid> Paul actually had the POT/PO updated only a few hours after midnight UTC, but i did a final edit pass since it was the literally last chance for the ISO. 09:18 < quaid> from here, we'll track changes for the Web-only update, which will also include a chance to update translations for the Web. 09:18 < quaid> and the cycle continues ... 09:19 < glezos> quaid: that's not a problem since translators can start working on the first right away 09:19 * quaid also sent out a whiney, 3 am blog post on the subject 09:19 < quaid> oh, on a related subject 09:20 < quaid> we had a few small weirdnesses, but the notes and translations all made it into test4 just fine, middle of last week 09:20 < quaid> the schedule here is a bit brutal, because of the extra days we added for trans this time. 09:21 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser(a)195.229.25.134] has joined #fedora-docs 09:21 < jmbuser> Sorry I'm late... 09:21 < glezos> quaid: we can study when did our l10n contributors committed their translations (were they on the first 2 days or on the last 2 days, weekdays or weekends) to see if the extra days were used after all. 09:21 < quaid> ok! good idea 09:22 < BobJensen> +1 09:22 < quaid> jmbuser: no worries, better safe than sorry :) 09:22 -!- hers [n=chatzill(a)222.248.201.228] has joined #fedora-docs 09:22 < quaid> jmbuser: we started a little bit later and are just on the first topic 09:22 * quaid blasts current log of meeting to jmbuser in pm 09:24 < quaid> ok, that seems a completed topic :) 09:24 < jmbuser> quaid: thanks 09:24 * quaid is working on closing f-dsco-l at this moment, too 09:25 < glezos> quaid: fedora-dsco-list? 09:25 -!- hers [n=chatzill(a)222.248.201.228] has quit [Client Quit] 09:25 < quaid> glezos: yes 09:25 < quaid> ok, so, moving on ... 09:26 < jmbuser> BTW, I want to thanks everyone, especially quaid, stickster 09:26 < JonRob> +1 09:26 < quaid> I didn't want to dive into a long discussion of recruiting and retaining for the project 09:26 < quaid> jmbuser: thanks :) 09:26 < quaid> I think the R&R discussion is good for the list 09:27 < quaid> but I wanted to address it enough so that those here are thinking about it, and will participate in the discussion 09:28 < quaid> any thoughts on the subject for here? 09:29 < glezos> quaid: I remember a similar discussion a month ago and a suggestion from me: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-March/msg00090.html 09:29 < quaid> ok, making it easier to contribute is always a good idea :) 09:30 < quaid> some stuff improves with Wiki changes, etc. 09:30 < JonRob> i definately feel, as a new member here, that some kind of a more clear todo list would be a good idea 09:31 < glezos> for retaining, two good ways to make it happen could be to make ideas of new members easier to happen and to make them maintainers of them, again, early on. 09:31 < quaid> one of my concerns is with existing projects, though, and starting more new projects isn't going to help that as much. 09:31 < glezos> JonRob: +1. Our TaskSchedule page is a mess and shows stuff we've been working for months but didn't achieve (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSchedule) 09:32 < quaid> maybe step 1 is to straighten out the current task needs before making it easier to start new stuff :) 09:32 < JonRob> quiad: yes 09:32 < quaid> also, that is an FDSCo task schedule 09:32 < quaid> not a project task schedule 09:32 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks 09:32 < quaid> that is a methodology document! 09:32 < quaid> eek 09:33 < glezos> quaid: didn't know about that. :) (the title of the page reads "Fedora Docs Open Tasks") 09:33 < quaid> seems like a good place to start would be to distill and organize tasks there, right? 09:33 < quaid> glezos: right, that is also a problem :) 09:33 < jmbuser> quaid: Despite stickster's heroic efforts, I'm still a little fuzzy on the Beats process :-) 09:33 < quaid> jmbuser: you mean, the technical weenie parts, or the social content gathering parts/ 09:33 < glezos> quaid: people see those tasks and say "no way I could help with those stuff!" 09:33 < jmbuser> quaid: the former 09:34 < quaid> ok, so task 1 from this meeting is: 09:34 < quaid> 1. Rework DP/SC/TaskSchedule and DP/Tasks so the former is all for FDSCo and obvious, and the latter is generic and well pointed at 09:35 < glezos> quaid: is there a real need to separate the two? 09:35 < quaid> good question 09:35 < glezos> I mean, both of them are FDP tasks, it's just that some of them need more experience. 09:35 < quaid> good point 09:35 < quaid> that is probably an outfall of sometimes on FDSCo would be avaialble to do stuff 09:36 < JonRob> if you put them together at least have them under clear headings, otherwise could be overwhelming/scary 09:36 < glezos> yup 09:36 < quaid> maybe a column, "Expertise level required" 09:36 < JonRob> something similar to the layout of the new join page? 09:37 < quaid> JonRob: you mean the master Join page? wiki/Join 09:37 < JonRob> yeah 09:37 < quaid> perhaps, although that design seems to work great for directing desire, but not as much for tracking tasks 09:38 < JonRob> the clear headings with sharp bullet points make it accessible though 09:38 < quaid> ah, I see 09:39 < JonRob> something which some sort of a todo list needs to be to make new users feel they can really bite 09:39 < quaid> ok, we'll start with reworking and combining those pages into one; means retiring the TaskSchedule most likely since that is an obscure URL 09:39 < quaid> anything else? or to the list with this discussion? 09:40 < glezos> the more clear we are on what we *are* doing and what we *want* to do (and how important/urgent) each task is, the better picture new and experienced members would choose where to turn their attention to 09:40 < glezos> ok for the list.. 09:40 < quaid> +1 09:40 < jmbuser> quaid: proceed 09:40 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007 09:40 < quaid> for those who aren't aware 09:40 < quaid> we have two main projects there, and a closely related to us one (man/info publication) 09:41 < glezos> yay for Fedora Docs! :) 09:41 < quaid> :) 09:41 < quaid> so, just be aware that Google gave 2 extra months at the beginning for 09:41 < jmbuser> glezos: Congrats on your winning entry 09:41 < quaid> getting people connected into the projects early 09:42 < quaid> so, we know what glezos is doing, that has been well discussed 09:42 < glezos> jmbuser: thanks :) 09:42 < quaid> what daMaestro (JonathanSteffan) is doing is the magic between Plone and the rest of our tools 09:43 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007/JonathanSteffan 09:43 < quaid> you can read all the cracky ideas there :) 09:43 < glezos> quaid: unfortunately, I won't be able to really get my hands on code until the end of May. However we could start some work on setting up the domain, discussing the details etc. 09:43 < quaid> glezos: that's to be expected, sure 09:43 < quaid> glezos: you are already ahead of the curve anyway :) 09:44 < quaid> the extra time really serves people where the student is brand new to the project 09:44 < glezos> yup 09:44 < quaid> there is one other interesting thing we're going to be seeing worked out onlist soon, I hope 09:44 < quaid> a student in a different summer of code project is also working on the man/info project 09:44 < quaid> from a different angle 09:44 < quaid> so we're likely to send up with a couple of solutions there. 09:45 < glezos> cool 09:45 < jmbuser> excellent 09:45 < quaid> yeah, unfortunately they are not allowed to work together, a strange irony of the SoC process 09:45 < jmbuser> hmmmmm 09:46 < quaid> any questions here, or shall we move on to discuss F7 guides? 09:46 < jmbuser> quaid: nothing wrong with interfacing independently with FDP? 09:47 < quaid> nope 09:47 < quaid> don't think so 09:48 < jmbuser> quaid: that's good 09:48 < quaid> we'll see how it progresses, maybe a natural break occurs to make it modular v. two parallel projects, and we get one to work on part A, the other on part B 09:48 < quaid> I haven't contacted the other mentor for this yet 09:51 < glezos> shall we move on? 09:51 < jmbuser> +1 09:51 < quaid> thx, yes 09:51 * quaid is also making roll-up pancakes :) 09:51 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule#guides-schedule 09:52 < quaid> so, that is for any guides that wanted to be translated and shipped with F7 09:53 < jmbuser> quaid: so any changes to the DUG are for next release? 09:54 < quaid> uh, well 09:54 < quaid> that is only if we want to ship with the release 09:54 < quaid> maybe that is unrealistic 09:54 < glezos> too bad :( 09:54 < quaid> or rather, it is obviously unrealistic now :) 09:54 < quaid> well, we can ship non-trans with the release 09:54 < quaid> at least the DUG is moving forward 09:55 < JonRob> what's happening with the DUG after last meeting? or is that a topic for the list? 09:57 < quaid> list topic, I reckon 09:57 < jmbuser> JonRob: I think so, too 09:57 < quaid> so, maybe checking on the IG and AG are both good list topics 09:58 < glezos> quaid: slightly off-topic: do we have an estimation for a working Plone installation? 09:58 < quaid> glezos: fairly soon, in terms of installed to work with; mmcgrath has it on his task list right now, aiui 09:58 < glezos> I'm asking to see how soon could we start into resolving some of the fragmentation we have in our various Docs 09:59 < quaid> it will be later in the Summer for magic to start happening 09:59 < glezos> ok, thanks 10:01 < glezos> anything else to be added before moving to L10N? 10:01 < quaid> nope 10:01 < glezos> okie 10:02 < glezos> so, *some* stats for our translations is at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation/Statistics 10:02 < glezos> not too helpful probably (guides are not mentioned there) but quite some translators have requested access to the cvsl10n group 10:03 < glezos> One of the tasks we could have for this week, as mentioned earlier, is to see when translations for relnotes were submitted to see how many days translators actually need 10:04 < glezos> Since we don't yet have a stats page, some reminders to the -trans-list about urgent docs needing translations, and generally, updates on our docs, could be very useful 10:05 < jmbuser> glezos: Are the stats something you are developing further this summer? 10:05 < quaid> ok, good point 10:05 < glezos> jmbuser: yes, it's a major part of the GSoC project. 10:05 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007/DimitrisGlezos 10:06 < quaid> details there 10:06 < glezos> quaid: the more updates the better. Even one-liners; the l10n team actually feels a bit un-informed about doc/app updates :) 10:06 * jmbuser thinks updates and stats are good 10:06 < quaid> ok! 10:06 < quaid> maybe a daily or every-other-day update at this point would be good, sure 10:07 < quaid> glezos: here is why i am shy ... I have written often to f-trans-l without a response, so i don't know when it helps that i email, and I don't want people to burn out on seeing my address :) 10:07 < glezos> quaid: have you checked about responses in the form of CVS commits? 10:08 < glezos> I mean, Paul wrote recently about reverting the xml2po flag but I didn't reply to him that I updated the greek translation of docs-common 10:09 < glezos> One final point that recently concerns me is that of translation of the Website (Wiki for now) in general. We have been absolutely horrible in this respect b/c the wiki simply lacks a l10n workflow but I hope that Plone will fix this. 10:09 < quaid> hmm, ok 10:09 < quaid> how? 10:09 < quaid> how will Plone fix this? 10:10 < glezos> it supports l10n for every page 10:10 < quaid> are you thinking we'll move to the Plone Wiki tool from Moin? 10:10 < glezos> quaid: no, I am not conerned in translating every wiki page, just the important ones 10:11 < quaid> ok 10:11 < quaid> ah! good point 10:11 < glezos> at some point we will need to decide what will be transferred to Plone, right? Like GNOME, they have gnome.org but also a wiki at live.gnome.org 10:11 < quaid> we need to identify pages that need to move from Wiki to Plone 10:11 < quaid> right 10:11 * mmcgrath notes we can have a production plone instance very soon. 10:11 < jmbuser> Both moinmoin and plone have their uses 10:11 < quaid> this is something we can start to do before daMaestro starts his thing, i think 10:11 < mmcgrath> pre F7. 10:12 < glezos> quaid: sure. Also, we'd need to see how we are going to implement docs.fedoraproject.org (separate Plone instance? etc) 10:12 < glezos> anyway, this falls in the scope of the Websites Project I guess. 10:12 < quaid> probably a dive into a specific location in Plone 10:12 < quaid> yeah 10:14 < glezos> I'm through with what is on my mind about Docs+L10N 10:14 < quaid> mmcgrath: cool 10:14 < quaid> sorry 10:14 < quaid> that wasn't directed at mmcgrath actually :) 10:15 < quaid> ok, anything else? 10:16 * quaid should be able to do the log and summary again this week 10:16 < quaid> already working on it :) 10:16 < glezos> quaid: great, thanks 10:16 < jmbuser> quaid: Thanks 10:16 < JonRob> awesome :D 10:17 < quaid> sorry I'm such a crappy project manager, btw, it's not my strongest suit :) 10:17 < quaid> if it were, I know FDP would be in a bit better shape 10:17 < glezos> quaid: how much better? :) 10:17 * quaid contemplates recruiting poelstra to help 10:17 < quaid> glezos: different-better :) 10:18 * glezos should return to study now. ta ta guys 10:18 < quaid> actuallly ... I'll talk with John about FDP being an early adopter of his PM methodologies 10:18 < quaid> we're good at that :) 10:18 < quaid> yep, we can finish 10:18 < quaid> </meeting>

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Fedora Docs Project Meeting today - 1600 UTC Sunday
by John Babich 22 Apr '07

22 Apr '07

As usual, the Fedora Docs Steering Committee (FDSCo) will meet on freenode, #fedora-meeting, today at 1600 UTC. Information about the next meeting can be found on our meeting page at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings and on this mailing list. All members of the community are welcome to attend and participate in our meetings. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project

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New POT and PO available for Release Notes
by Paul W. Frields 22 Apr '07

22 Apr '07

As shown on our schedule[1], the final Release Notes POT and PO are now available for translation. There have been a few string changes, but not many -- about 70-75 total. The Docs Project had hoped for the feature freeze to keep the changes as low as possible, but our developers have been squeezing in a few last improvements to make Fedora 7 as good as possible. That means our Release Notes had to change a little bit to match the changes. In a few cases changes are for readability or to correct conceptual errors. --==[[ The new PO deadline is 2359 UTC, 02 MAY 2007! ]]==-- Here are the new PO statistics shown as of this commit. The "***" markings for the locales es, fi, it, pt, sv, and zh_CN are to show that these translation groups had fully translated the test4 PO before the final changes were imported. To those locales -- AMAZING WORK! There's plenty of time for other groups to catch up, with at least 10 days available for more translation. ca: 96/102/353/ cs: 1/9/541/ da: 211/225/115/ de: 113/176/238/ el: 221/254/52/ es: 453/24/50/ *** fi: 454/23/50/ *** fr: 146/199/182/ gu: 108/110/333/ hr: 122/88/341/ hu: 161/390/ it: 453/24/50/ *** ja: 96/198/233/ ml: 0/623/ ms: 40/73/438/ nb: 26/19/506/ nl: 272/13/242/ pa: 164/105/258/ pl: 215/221/115/ pt_BR: 325/93/109/ pt: 454/26/47/ *** ru: 187/199/141/ sr: 112/157/258/ sv: 454/26/47/ *** ta: 0/551/ uk: 187/201/139/ zh_CN: 449/31/47/ *** -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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Self-Introduction: Shen Qi jie
by Qi Jie Shen 22 Apr '07

22 Apr '07

This is Shen Qi Jie from GuangZhou, China. I am a student major in software engineering. Now I am studying for Master degree in Guang Dong University of Technology. I want to be a translator in Fedora Core Project. Also, I can do some writing and editing if I have time. I toke several projects since 2003. They were PCB design, Supersonic Security System and some MISs. I did some parts of the research tasks and most of the documents work. Now ,I am taking R&D on Network Security Assessment and Intelligent Gateway Project. However, I am willing to devote my spare time on Fedora Core Project. I have rich knowledge on Windows series OS and Linux. I am good at c++, python and some Basic and assembly. Furthermore I have good communicate skill and learning skill which let me handle new technologies quickly and solve problems. GPG KEYID and fingerprint: pub 1024D/3DF8FE71 2007-04-22 [expires: 2008-04-21] Key fingerprint = 720B 918D D767 210D 86A1 5093 428A 1330 3DF8 FE71 uid Shen Qi Jie (Fedora Docs Project) <shenqj(a)gmail.com> sub 2048g/B60A067A 2007-04-22 [expires: 2008-04-21]

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Wiki frozen
by Paul W. Frields 21 Apr '07

21 Apr '07

The wiki should be considered "frozen" at this point for release notes. Karsten and I are importing the new material in -- by hand since most of it is small diffs -- as DocBook XML in CVS. The POT will be ready for translators very soon, hopefully tonight. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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Ricardo has Tagged you! :)
by Ricardo Botelho 21 Apr '07

21 Apr '07

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What's right about translation credits?
by Diego Búrigo Zacarão 21 Apr '07

21 Apr '07

Hello, all.. I have some doubts about translation credits and I hope that someone can explain it to me. 1 - About msgid "translator-credits" in all PO files. I suppose we must put one translator per line, in the form of: NAME <EMAIL>, YEAR. (right?) So, where that will appear? I have checked some modules GUI like system-config-* and I did't see it anywhere. 2 - The same problem above happen on CVS Docs. We have the msgid "translator-credits" in PO files, but it is't displayed on pages published at docs.fedoraproject.org. However we have some confused things here, because some modules, like mirror-tutorial<http://docs.fedoraproject.org/mirror/>, shows names of translators as author, cause they were added in rpm-info.xmlin <colophon> tag. But, in other modules, like install-guide <http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/fc6/>, this does't happened. Then... What's the right thing to do? Can we put names as translator in rpm-info.xml or not? Best regards -- Diego Búrigo Zacarão Linux User #402589 USE SOFTWARE LIVRE

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Re: What's right about translation credits?
by Diego Búrigo Zacarão 21 Apr '07

21 Apr '07

+1 2007/4/21, Paul W. Frields <stickster(a)gmail.com>: > > I would like to see some XSLT to produce a special authorship page for > translators. The number of translators working on a document far, far > outnumber the number of authors, and putting all these names on the > front page makes the document more difficult to read. Readers will > likely skip the front material such as the first introductory section if > they can't see it quickly. I would propose that we move author, editor, > and translator names to this colophon area, linked prominently from the > front page with a name like "Contributor Credits." "Colophon" is > probably not right since that usually occurs at the end of a work, and I > would like to see this linked from the front. > > The copyright for a work should generally be held by the author(s) only, > which might take some additional scut-work. I see some docs where we > have many names listed, including editors and translators. > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields > irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug > > -- Diego Búrigo Zacarão Linux User #402589 USE SOFTWARE LIVRE

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DUG Included in Base Desktop Installation
by Nicolas A. Corrarello 20 Apr '07

20 Apr '07

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I think we should include the DUG in a well-noticeable link in the Desktop or maybe in the default homepage a link to it, what brings me to another subject: Can we make the language of the dug chosen based on the install language? Is it considered to translate the DUG to all languages? (I volunteer for spanish (Latin America)) y.s. - - - -- Nicolas A. Corrarello, RHCE p: +54 (11) 4903-4112 Fedora Ambassador Argentina c: +54 (911) 5182-2245 GPG Key: DFC893EE e: ncorrare(a)fedoraproject.org http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/NicolasCorrarello GPG Fingerprint: 5C93 42DA 98E1 4EEF B24B 7F8C E145 B2F9 DFC8 93EE Import my key: $ gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-key 0xDFC893EE Learn. Network. Experience open source. Red Hat Summit San Diego | May 9-11, 2007 Learn more: http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/2007 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGKPqj4UWy+d/Ik+4RAgMQAJwP+vI37eZLsFMS1gow/CegPkg6OQCeJvQa jvMX/lEugoodOKbxtGXXZXY= =Zns9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Re: Virtualization Fedora 7 release notes beat
by Paul W. Frields 20 Apr '07

20 Apr '07

On Thu, 2007-04-19 at 09:16 -0400, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Wednesday 18 April 2007 20:54:30 Paul W. Frields wrote: > > So, make a suggestion for fixing it then! :-) We could move our > > timetable for final PO as long as it's OK by Jesse and RelEng. I'm > > cc'ing him on this to get a call for how late he can reasonably take > > release notes material, and we can go by that. > > I can take release notes content pretty late in the process, so long as we all > know it's good. A day or two after the final freeze even. OK, I already have the schedule marked to deliver f-r-n on the freeze date, so this means you're only giving us an extra day or two. Don't take that as a complaint -- I understand the remainder of the time is for testing, disc manufacturing, and so forth. So "feature list fuzziness" or no, AFAICT the schedule we've got up is very reasonable, based on the release engineering schedule. We still can do an additional update of release notes for Web only, which may not be marked yet on that schedule. Any guides merely need to be in place by release date. Given Jesse's statement above and the need to have a day or two of allowance, I think our schedule can stand as is. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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KDE content for release notes
by Rahul Sundaram 20 Apr '07

20 Apr '07

Hi http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Desktop We need updates on the content from the KDE SIG. It is currently non-existent. You only got a day before GNOME takes over the world or atleast the docs gets frozen;-) Rahul

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Virtualization Fedora 7 release notes beat
by Rahul Sundaram 19 Apr '07

19 Apr '07

Hi http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Virtualization Sam Folk Williams and/or others would have to update it to include details on KVM and Xen integration with virt-manager and related features. The related Xen document for installation of KVM and Xen VM's in Fedora 7 needs to be created too. Rahul

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Default Home Page Links
by Jonathan Roberts 18 Apr '07

18 Apr '07

> I can see pros and cons. If you want to pursue this, propose some ideas > on fedora-docs-list and we'll discuss. Was wondering if it might be a good idea to add links pointing to free media sites on the default Fedora home page? My reasoning is that most people use their computer purely as a device for office, web browsing or viewing media. The first two of these we have well covered out of the box but most people coming from windows will be disappointed if they can't buy/download mp3s from emp3finder, itunes etc so why not make it really easy for them to find *free* content online from magnatune, jamendo etc. Would be a good opportunity to help increase their awareness of licensing issues as well and what less restrictive licenses can achieve, not just in software. Jon

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Self-Introduction: Thiago Dias
by NullCk . 18 Apr '07

18 Apr '07

Hello, My name is Thiago Dias, is coordinating of technology, formed as técnologo of computer networks, course after graduation of security of the information. I am setting the disposal to help them where my knowledge can be useful, I begin it I will be assisting in the translation of the documentations to pt_BR. Since already I thank this chance. NullCk Poweride By Fedora Core Linux _________________________________________________________________ MSN Busca: fácil, rápido, direto ao ponto. http://search.msn.com.br

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Email request
by Mike McGrath 18 Apr '07

18 Apr '07

Hey guys, our new account system will have an "invite a member" feature where current members can send an invitation to people they think may be interested in contributing. It already works! Here's what it says. Please come join the fedora project! Someone thinks your skills and abilities may be able to help our project. If your interested please go to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/HelpWanted But that stinks... Really bad. So I was wondering if someone else could come up with an interesting, inviting, better than that message to put in the email. Any takers? -Mike

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Self-Introduction: Thiago Dias
by NullCk . 18 Apr '07

18 Apr '07

Olá, Meu nome é Thiago Dias, sou coordenador de tecnologia, formado como técnologo de redes de computadores, curso pós graduação de segurança da informação. Estou me pondo a disposição para ajudá-los onde meus conhecimentos podem ser úteis, a principio estarei auxiliando na tradução das documentações. Desde já agradeço esta oportunidade. NullCk Poweride By Fedora Core Linux _________________________________________________________________ MSN Busca: fácil, rápido, direto ao ponto. http://search.msn.com.br

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Come up with a search engine idea.
by 吴愚 18 Apr '07

18 Apr '07

Today, I was stuck in finding the right command and document to finish my task. So I think shall we add a Desktop Search Engine for both tools and documents that are in your Fedora Core? It could search for the keywords that are described the tools or involved in the documents. In the search results, there could be simple examples of the usage for the tools or the link to the man page. For the document, a simple description is needed and, of course, a link to the page. In my consideration, it could be useful for system administrator, developer and advanced user. Does it pratica?Some advise? Thanks very much! Wu Yu

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Update for TQSG
by Teta Bilianou 18 Apr '07

18 Apr '07

Hello everyone! I have just committed an update to the el.po file for the translation quick start guide. Could someone please publish it or, even better, explain the process of creating the corresponding website php files (are they manually created)? http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/web/html/docs/translation-quick-start-… Regards, Teta

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Switching entities back
by Paul W. Frields 18 Apr '07

18 Apr '07

We will be reverting entity handling back to the "-e" version. This will require some additional translation between F7 test4 => F7 Final, but the work involved should be minimal. I will revert this behavior *after* the fedora-release-notes package goes to the release engineering team. You may find that certain titles or names are not properly translated in the test4 output for this reason, for example: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=236454 This behavior will be fixed after: 1. The entity handling reverts to "xml2po -e", AND 2. Translators complete the changes to their PO content resulting from the entity handling change. I expect to make this change around 16-17 April. I apologize to the translators for creating this bit of extra work, and I'll try not to have that happen again. Thanks to everyone for your efforts and keep up the good work! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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Self-Introduction: Licio Fonseca
by Licio Fonseca 18 Apr '07

18 Apr '07

Hi everybody, My name's Licio Fernando N. da Fonseca, I'm a 21-years-old Computer Science student from Belo Horizonte, Brazil. I'm an ubuntu member since january of 2006. I consider myself a supporter of the open source community/movement, a feeling that was extremelly augmented when I first started using GNU/Linux in 2001. I wanna help the fedora with documentation and with translation for brazilian portuguese. In my job I work with fedora all day and in my home with ubuntu by night. My ubuntu wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LicioFernando My gnome wiki page: http://live.gnome.org/LicioFonseca I gonna make my fedora wiki page :) Thanks in advance. -- Licio Fernando Fonseca liciofernando AT gmail.com Jabber: licio(a)jabber.org | I Seek You (Icq): 271062447 Linux user: 343587 | Ubuntu - GNU/Linux http://blog.licio.eti.br (pt_BR) http://weblog.licio.eti.br (en) -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1 GCM/CS/s/m d+(--) s: a-- C+++ UL+++$ P++$ L+++$ E W+++ N+++ o K- w-- O M- V- PS+ PE- Y+ PGP++ t++ 5+ X- R+ tv- b+++ DI+ D G e++ h r++ y+ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

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FDSCo Meeting 2007-04-15 Summary
by Karsten Wade 16 Apr '07

16 Apr '07

= FDSCo meeting for 15-Apr-2007 = == Agenda and Summary == Agenda and notes/summary here, IRC log below. 1. Finalize name and structure of Fedora 7 edition of Desktop User Guide * New title: Fedora User Guide * New structure (using includes) * GNOME and KDE on equal footing because each has its own spin - Using the one section, two WMs covered plan: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-April/msg00068.html * Encourage KDE SIG to join in * Make F7 Deadline === FUG Tasks === * John -- write up a checklist derived from critiques of the DUG that specifies what each section needs to cover and how * FUG team -- stub out the new KDE content so KDE SIG and others can easily contribute * FUG team -- define 3 to 5 tasks per section, describe how to do them; in the case of e.g. OOo and Firefox, point to specific, deep-linked outside documents that have how-to information * Status of delivery test4 release notes - Need to deliver release-notes package this week for test4 spin - Paul can update on this via mailing list * GSoC thinking - Karsten to send an update to the list about accepted projects * Admin Guide discussion - Robert (Pereira) is going to focus on this guide for F7; more discussions on list * L10N other - Did not get to this item today - On list discussions with Dimitris to follow -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

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write a test4 announcement?
by Karsten Wade 16 Apr '07

16 Apr '07

Jesse (f13) asked if we want to write up anything for the test4 release. The final announcement is being handled under a different process[1], although we can certainly be the team to write (at least) the native-English version of the F7 announcement. For test4, we can do anything reasonable. Maybe a chance to try out our talking points?[2] If you are interested in doing something for test4, create a Wiki space and write something up, or bounce some ideas to this list. If you want to help with the final release announcement, please do! - Karsten [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/ReleaseAnnouncements/ [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/ReleaseAnnouncements/TalkingPoints -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

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A bit of away time
by Dimitris Glezos 15 Apr '07

15 Apr '07

Hey all. Just a quick notice to say that for the following 2 months I'll be away from Fedora and mailing lists due to a pile of work and a ton of upcoming stuff (thesis writing, big trip, GSoC, blah). This is done to ensure that after this period I'll still have the little hair I'm left with. Not that it will do much help, but one can only hope. I'll try to pop-in every now and then with comments but avoid actual work and regular updates. For FDSCo, if my presence is needed for a meeting or my opinion for a matter, you guys just give a shout. Awaiting to return in full throttle again in the summer with the GSoC project. -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos(a)jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) --

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FDSCo Meeting 2007-04-15 IRC log
by Karsten Wade 15 Apr '07

15 Apr '07

= IRC Log = 09:06 < quaid> <meeting> 09:06 < quaid> and good morning, and welcome back jmbuser 09:07 < jmbuser> quaid: my eyes read docs but my brain hears meeting 09:07 < quaid> agenda at ... http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings 09:07 < jmbuser> quaid: nice to be back 09:07 < quaid> jmbuser: heh, no vacation quite like the end of vacation. 09:08 < robertjs> Good morning mates, my name is Robert and i'm a brand-new member of the docs project. 09:09 < jmbuser> robertjs: Greetings, Robert 09:09 < quaid> robertjs: good morning :) 09:09 < kiluawuyu> me, too :) 09:10 < robertjs> Thanks to all :) 09:10 < jmbuser> kiluawuyu: Good day to you 09:10 < kiluawuyu> Thanks a lot :D 09:11 * quaid updates the agenda a bit 09:11 < quaid> 1. 09:11 -!- Irssi: Pasting 6 lines to #fedora-docs. Press Ctrl-K if you wish to do this or Ctrl-C to cancel. 09:12 < quaid> Finalize name and structure of Fedora 7 edition of Desktop User Guide - JohnBabich 09:12 < quaid> 2. Status of delivery test4 relese notes 09:12 < quaid> 3. GSoC thinking 09:12 < quaid> 4. Admin Guide discussion 09:12 < quaid> 5. L10N other 09:12 < quaid> something like that :) 09:12 < quaid> jmbuser: so, lots of DUG discussion, etc. How are you feeling about it all? 09:15 * quaid wonders if we lost jmbuser's 'net connection 09:15 < robertjs> :p 09:16 * quaid goes to 'cvs up -d' the release-notes module to see how that is in the meantime 09:16 < kiluawuyu> Do we need to add some other help document into DUG if typical error occurs? 09:16 < robertjs> jmbuser: Are you there? 09:16 < quaid> yeah, probably a dropped connection 09:17 < BobJensen-Away> I am really sorry I got my self "triple booked" this morning 09:17 < quaid> BobJensen-Away: hey, quick q for you 09:17 < BobJensen-Away> quaid: I should have about 15 minutes 09:17 < quaid> BobJensen-Away: since this is a test release, are we looser on the rules about "how much % translated" 09:17 < quaid> for the release notes 09:18 < BobJensen-Away> quaid: Yes, we are only hard core on the final 09:18 < quaid> I think some of what I see here is false fuzziness anyway, from the entities reversal 09:18 < quaid> BobJensen-Away: +1 09:18 < BobJensen-Away> as a result some may be in the test4 partially completed but not included in final if no progress is made 09:19 < BobJensen-Away> IIRC we had a 90% rule? is that correct for final? 09:19 < quaid> yes 09:19 < quaid> we may want to ask our L10n experts if that is reasonable, just be sure 09:19 < quaid> (we can follow up on that separately) 09:19 < BobJensen-Away> +1 to that 09:20 < BobJensen-Away> I like "any attempt" to be in the tests as a way of encouraging the translators 09:20 < quaid> yes 09:21 < quaid> it looks like we are a day ahead of schedule, I think the releases schedule bumped up by a day 09:22 * quaid is working on agenda item 2 in case it isn't clear 09:22 < quaid> making sure we are ready to deliver the release-notes package in time for test4 09:22 < quaid> (also the about-fedora and homepage modules) 09:23 < BobJensen-Away> quaid: RE: about-fedora 09:23 < BobJensen-Away> did we find a solution to the issue with that? 09:24 < quaid> BobJensen-Away: I *think* we have something working, but I forget the details 09:24 * quaid writes an email of a few questions for stickster_afk 09:24 < BobJensen-Away> OK, just checking, I was a little out of the loop on that item 09:24 < quaid> no worries, me too :) 09:25 -!- jmbuser_ [n=jmbuser(a)195.229.25.134] has joined #fedora-docs 09:25 < quaid> et voila! 09:25 < BobJensen-Away> We are checking out a new camping area this morning for our first campout planned for June 8 09:25 < jmbuser_> I'm back 09:25 < quaid> un bad net connection 09:25 * quaid high-5s BobJensen-Away 09:25 < quaid> excellent 09:25 < jmbuser_> Was it just me? 09:26 < quaid> jmbuser: yep 09:26 < quaid> jmbuser: we just finished with agenda item 2, held on for your return ... 09:26 < BobJensen-Away> My ride is just about here so i am going to take off 09:26 < quaid> I know how your connection can be at times 09:26 < jmbuser_> quaid: Apologies for my stinking ISP 09:26 < quaid> BobJensen-Away: thanks, see you 09:26 < quaid> jmbuser_: so, let me dig up my opening question for you ... 09:27 < quaid> jmbuser: so, lots of DUG discussion, etc. How are you feeling about it all? 09:27 * quaid == king of open questions 09:29 < jmbuser_> I would like to get agreement from everyone on the DUG (or new name to be determined) that we should have one doc with different sections covering the default (GNOME) and including KDE and (perhaps) Xfce. There would be common topics such as OpenOffice.org and Firefox. 09:29 < jmbuser_> agreed? 09:30 * jmbuser_ waits for input 09:30 * quaid +1 09:30 < quaid> but I was pretty clear abou that on list :) 09:31 < JonRob> +1 09:31 < JonRob> (but i must run...heading out to a concert) 09:31 < JonRob> have fun 09:31 -!- JonRob [n=jon(a)88-111-147-240.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has left #fedora-docs [] 09:31 < jmbuser_> It will be necessary to explain what a desktop (window manager) is and that GNOME is the default 09:32 < quaid> we'll find a way 09:32 < quaid> I had one question/thought ... would it help to have ... a checklist of what needs to be done in a section for it to be task-oriented v. reference-oriented 09:33 < quaid> and a list of all sections and how much of that is completed, etc. 09:33 < jmbuser_> Agreed 09:33 < robertjs> This initial set of apps sounds good to start. The main usage is Desktop windows and panels, Web browsers and office suite. 09:33 < quaid> checklist == derived from recent reviews and discussions 09:33 < jmbuser_> Now for the name - should we keep it Desktop User Guide or change it to something else, like Fedora New User Guide? 09:34 < robertjs> Humm... 09:35 < kiluawuyu> I think it's better to have "fedora" within the name~~ 09:35 < jmbuser_> I will prepare an outline and a checklist for people to track progress 09:35 < quaid> or ... Fedora User Guide and show "expert" sections as incomplete? 09:35 < BobJensen-Away> Is the document 100% fedora specific? 09:35 < quaid> +1 to Fedora in the name, that seems solid 09:36 < quaid> BobJensen-Away: yes, in that it is only what can appear in the distro (OOo, Fx, etc.) 09:36 < jmbuser_> +1 on Fedora in the name 09:36 < BobJensen-Away> Could it be used as the base for a generic linux users document? 09:36 < robertjs> My oppinion is that Fedora User Guide is better to the goal of manual. 09:36 < kiluawuyu> Linux users document maybe too big 09:36 < quaid> BobJensen-Away: it could, although those exist ... but there is some value in that, if we can connect across to other projects 09:36 < jmbuser_> Fedora User Guide (with possible Advanced sections added in the future) sounds good to me 09:37 < kiluawuyu> me too~ 09:37 * couf comes back 09:37 < BobJensen-Away> See my thinking is if we keep s somewhat generic name then distros based on Fedora could also make use of it 09:37 < quaid> jmbuser_: how about we specify e.g. three tasks to complete with each tool and how to do it? or some decision on tasks that can be described 09:37 < quaid> BobJensen-Away: they can rename it :) 09:37 < robertjs> jmbuser: Like some advanced settings or some basic command line topics? 09:37 < quaid> well, one thing that is true ... 09:37 < jmbuser_> The challenge is to meet our immediate need for Fedora while keeping it generic enough for upstream 09:38 < quaid> we have considered that *all* of the smaller guides 09:38 < quaid> can be stitched together into one Fedora Guide 09:38 < quaid> and the DUG == new users section 09:38 < quaid> ... and that is a goal of the project 09:38 < BobJensen-Away> OK ride is now here, I I just want it to be known that keeping the name "Fedora" out of the title would be a good thing in generaljust for the big picture 09:40 < quaid> I don't think it's needed 09:40 < quaid> since the title can be changed by downstream 09:40 < quaid> OPL and all that 09:40 < BobJensen-Away> that is just My opinion 09:41 * jmbuser_ is considering the options 09:41 < couf> quaid: +1 09:41 < jmbuser_> I agree that Fedora should stay in the title 09:43 < jmbuser_> Three tasks: 1. Common topics (OpenOffice.org, Firefox, etc.) 09:43 < jmbuser_> 2. GNOME apps presented as default apps 09:44 < jmbuser_> 3. KDE apps given as alternate apps (Konqueror, for example) 09:45 * jmbuser_ awaits response 09:45 < jmbuser_> Suggestion for new title: Fedora User Guide (emphasis on beginners) 09:45 < jmbuser_> agreed? 09:45 < kiluawuyu> agree 09:46 < couf> hmm, I wouldn't do that: KDE users will like to see just the default kde-apps and not get confronted with: 'hey konqueror is an alternative" 09:46 < kiluawuyu> Fedora User Guide with Desktop user and system administrator? 09:47 < jmbuser_> couf: I like KDE apps, but historically it's been a GNOME desktop 09:47 < couf> +1 to FUG 09:47 < couf> jmbuser_: true, but we're getting a kde spin this time, with *just* kde on it 09:47 < quaid> couf: it's more like ... KDE is not default, here is KDE 09:47 < quaid> ah 09:47 < quaid> or KDE is default :) 09:48 < quaid> ok, so neither is an alternative in the sense of "lesser" but in the sense of "other" 09:48 < couf> aye 09:48 < robertjs> We can keep KDE apps without use the word "alternative", just presenting it as more one free choice. 09:48 < couf> like divide each chapter into a gnome part and kde part 09:49 < jmbuser_> System Administrator Guide would be a separate doc 09:49 < kiluawuyu> what about a whole Gnome part and a KDE whole part 09:49 < robertjs> couf: It normally works! 09:50 < robertjs> couf: Tho splited sections in same chapter. 09:50 < jmbuser_> OK, most people are going to use Firefox, but Konqueror is a worthy alternative - how to present it is the issue 09:50 < robertjs> Two* 09:50 < couf> I'm just pointing out that we can't relay start off as: fedora is gnome, kde is alternate 09:50 < jmbuser_> Just present and leave off the GNOME/KDE labels - since the software installer will resolve all the dependencies? 09:51 < couf> hmm, see what opens by default in a kde spin, and what defaults in a gnome spin? 09:51 < couf> we should just state the defaults, as a beginner-oriented guide, imo 09:52 < jmbuser_> That occurred to me, but do we have the time and resources to produce a specific version for each spin - i don't think so 09:52 < jmbuser_> Maybe for a future release 09:53 < couf> jmbuser_: that depends, if we can get the kde sig into the game, the kde version can rock 09:53 < quaid> I think the main time sink there is the 2(Wiki) => 2(XML) 09:53 < quaid> couf: good point 09:53 < quaid> putting up the structure on the Wiki is a key first step, empty structure, I think 09:54 < couf> yeah give them the tools to do it, we'll handle the rest 09:55 -!- jmbuser_ [n=jmbuser(a)195.229.25.134] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:57 < quaid> oh, no, jmbuser! 09:57 < quaid> couf: do you think the KDE SIG will be more interested if we show a strong separation? 09:58 < quaid> v. "scroll down below the GNOME info and put in the KDE version there"? 09:58 < couf> I really don't know 09:58 < kiluawuyu> what about a KDE Plus section? 09:58 < couf> on the other hand, if they see all this gnome stuff written, they might want to do even better :) 10:00 < quaid> maybe we can use Include() to make them separate yet pulled together 10:00 < quaid> to be easier to work one 10:00 < quaid> that's one thing I like about MediaWiki, being able to edit == sub sections == separately 10:00 < kiluawuyu> Shall we put the regular things together and then add more words on what KDE could do? 10:00 < couf> quaid: +1 10:00 < kiluawuyu> quaid:+1 10:01 < kiluawuyu> Section: 10:01 < kiluawuyu> sub section: 10:01 < kiluawuyu> sub sectoin: 10:01 < kiluawuyu> like this? 10:01 < couf> kiluawuyu: yeah 10:02 < kiluawuyu> Agree :) 10:03 < couf> all right, maybe we should just start something else while awaiting jmbuser's return 10:03 < quaid> heh, i thought we'd end up discussing DUG all meeting 10:03 < quaid> without glezos, it's not worth discussing the GSoC and L10N connection 10:04 < couf> admin guide then, robertjs that seems to be yours 10:04 < robertjs> Ok 10:04 < quaid> I should just send a GSoC update to the list 10:04 < couf> quaid: right, glezos' app got selected, right? 10:05 * couf should stop typing "right" 10:05 < quaid> right! 10:05 < quaid> and a few others for us, and some interest in people who didn't get their apps acceptd to work on it anyway 10:05 < robertjs> I joined docs-project intending colaborate writing the sections of the Admin Guide's sections. 10:05 < couf> quaid: great :) 10:05 < quaid> so, we'll have 3 or 4 docs/l10n focused projects this summer 10:06 < robertjs> As I'm Braziliam my aim is write thos stuff in English and Portuguese 10:06 < quaid> nman64_away: who is Jeff Sheltren? 10:06 < robertjs> Anybody here started write some section? 10:07 < couf> robertjs: yeah that guide needs some love 10:07 < robertjs> couf: It will get a lot ;) 10:07 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser(a)195.229.25.134] has joined #fedora-docs 10:07 < jmbuser> Good grief! 10:07 < couf> wb jmbuser 10:08 < couf> robertjs: I would say: dive in :) 10:08 < jmbuser> I actually was wrapping up 10:08 < robertjs> I posted a Self Presentation message on the discussion list, talking about my plans. Ill need help off native english speakers to revisions about my spelling :P 10:08 * jmbuser waits turn 10:08 < quaid> robertjs: no problem 10:09 < quaid> here, let's finish FUG discussion, just to tie back in what we suggested while jmbuser was gone 10:09 < robertjs> In the future i plan attack the current docs usggestin and write some new "in depth" docs about sysadmin topics. 10:09 < robertjs> Ok 10:09 < quaid> jmbuser: we thought we could get the KDE SIG more involved, use a set of stub sections to entice them, and design it on the Wiki as Include() based to make it easier to work on 10:09 < robertjs> this is all for now. 10:10 < quaid> robertjs: sounds good 10:10 < jmbuser> quaid: Good 10:10 < jmbuser> To sum up: 10:11 < jmbuser> 1. New title: Fedora User Guide 10:11 < jmbuser> 2. New structure (using includes) 10:12 < jmbuser> 3. Common, GNOME (default), KDE (have you considered...?) 10:12 < jmbuser> 4. Encourage KDE SIG to join in 10:12 < jmbuser> 5. Make F7 Deadline 10:13 < jmbuser> That's my viewpoint 10:13 * jmbuser finishes his contribution due to lousy internet 10:13 < kiluawuyu> F7 Deadline is included in FUG? 10:14 < couf> should we reconsider the topics, or go with the current flow? 10:14 < quaid> jmbuser: for 3, note that KDE is default on the KDE spin, so we want to make it clear that it's two choices, then from there .. 10:14 < quaid> couf: a thought on that ... 10:14 < jmbuser> quaid: That can flip based on includes 10:15 < quaid> maybe we want to pick e.g. 3 to 5 tasks per topic, make sure they are covered as how-to 10:15 < quaid> some things are obvious -- menu section == how to find stuff in these menus, etc. 10:15 < quaid> but for OOo or FX ... would that help? 10:16 < couf> OOo is to big to do that 10:16 < couf> I'd just explain what each different program does, but a bit more detailed then now 10:17 < jmbuser> Agreed, OOo is vast and we can only explain the basics of how to launch the app and point to other resources 10:17 < couf> FX is more of a: this is browser, go to google and start there :) 10:19 < jmbuser> couf: We can mention themes and extensions for Firefox, but can't get into depth 10:20 < quaid> ok, we can deep link to some OOo docs perhaps 10:20 < quaid> ... or go into how to hook OOo up for printing? 10:20 < quaid> anyway, that's off topic for this meeting that needs to come to an end 10:20 < robertjs> Dudes, I must to go now. Later i will look the chat log. Cya on discussion list or here. 10:20 < quaid> well, yeah, we need to finish 10:20 < couf> yeah indeed 10:20 < jmbuser> +1 10:21 < quaid> </meeting> -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

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Administration Guide
by Robert Pereira 15 Apr '07

15 Apr '07

Hi Mates, Following the Pauls's sugestion, I verified the Admninistratin Guide's draft (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide) and I'm happy to decided work on it. My CLA is already done and I'm ready to be included on Edit Group. For now my plans are to write completely the current topics and suggest new topics in the future. The ideas will flow!!! When the question appear in my mind, ill post here. See you at IRC. Note: Thanks Paul for the Job Tip ;) Robert Pereira pub 1024D/CD343232 2007-03-15 Key fingerprint = 3DA2 61E5 5B22 58F3 23F2 6528 ABEB 0BA8 CD34 3232 uid Robert Pereira (Fedora Projects Key) <robertjs(a)gmail.com> sub 2048g/93CC96B8 2007-03-15

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Meeting 15 April 2007
by Paul W. Frields 15 Apr '07

15 Apr '07

I can't make the meeting tomorrow morning because I will be away from home most of the day. If anyone needs a status update from me on anything, I'm happy to provide it today via email, or just catch me on IRC. I'll be around a good portion of the day, trying to catch up on some work. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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Self-Introduction: Robert Pereira
by Robert Pereira 14 Apr '07

14 Apr '07

Hello! My name is Robert J. S. Pereira. I'm living at Salvador city in Brazil. I'm working as Linux Systems and Networks Administrator and Instructor for 6 years. My current employer is 3Consult Soluções de TI (http://www.3consult.com.br) I wish write documentation to Fedora Core targeting systems administrators that want use Fedora Core to deploy infrastructure solutions. I want collaborate also to generate a set of free training stuff Fedora Core based to able persons or organizations use it in small courses/trainings. I think that the result can be a greater number of users that really know Fedora Core. Other mine desire is colaborate to produce documentation in same level that official Red Hat Documentation. My experience in documentation tasks started in 1999 when I wrote my first training manual about Microsoft products. After this I produced several Linux and Networking training manuals. In my last documentation effort i wrote more than 240 pages to a non-official Red Hat Enterprise Linux training sponsored by SENAI (www.cni.org.br) Beyond write documents I'm a experienced Linux system administrator building and deploying solutions using, SAMBA, Apache, OpenLDAP, NFS, Sendmail, Netfilter/Iptables and several services, as well technical support. Another large part of my time is occupied by teaching in official Mandriva Linux trainings since 2002. I wish teach official Red Hat Trainings (certification need :P ). I have good skills in shell scripting (I think that this can be better) that help me too much in my job and my plans include update my scripting skills with Perl or Python. I believe that I can use my experience in training and Linux documentation to add value to this project and make it continuously better. My regards, Robert Pereira pub 1024D/CD343232 2007-03-15 Key fingerprint = 3DA2 61E5 5B22 58F3 23F2 6528 ABEB 0BA8 CD34 3232 uid Robert Pereira (Fedora Projects Key) <robertjs(a)gmail.com> sub 2048g/93CC96B8 2007-03-15

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Statistics for release notes
by Paul W. Frields 14 Apr '07

14 Apr '07

I've updated the release notes translation statistics page at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation/Statistics to include today's current status. As stated in a previous message to fedora-trans-list¹, today at 2359 UTC is the deadline for translations to these materials for the test4 release of Fedora 7. ** Only minor changes will be permitted to the release notes at this time, to ensure that translators are not burdened by too many new or fuzzy strings. ** The next (and FINAL) POT update will occur on 21 April 2007, and the absolute final deadline for translation PO files is 2359 UTC on 2 May 2007. Refer to the Documentation Project schedule² for more details. = = = = = ¹ http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-trans-list/2007-April/msg00006.html ² http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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DUG: Connecting to the Internet page skipped...
by Jonathan Roberts 13 Apr '07

13 Apr '07

...in navigation structure but is present in contents. Is there a reason for this or is it a mistake?! Screenshots for that page are currently in spanish as well. Jon

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Self-Introduction, Wu Yu
by 吴愚 13 Apr '07

13 Apr '07

Hi all, Very pleased to join the fedora-docs-list! I am a undergraduate student of Tongji University, Shanghai, China, majored in Computer Science. I got good marks with my studies and was recommended to have graduate course without tests. I've been using Fedora Core from 1 to 6 since 2005 and I had a great experience. It widen my eyes with its beautiful user desktop and lots of open source software which I could modify them the way I wish! I consider it as a high efficiency operating system in which I could customize everything I like. One of the most important experience I have was that I won the third prize of National Intel Cup Embedded Competetion with the development environment of Fedora Core 4. Qt, Kdevelopment, Gaim....These tools really gave me excited experience. And most important of all, I enjoyed myself very much! Now I'm not satified with that I'm only a user. I want to be involved as one of the fedora core developers, too. First, I need to know more about Fedora Core, so I decide to work on the documentations first. And I'm ready to dodge myself in it! I hope you could accept me and help me at my startup. Thanks very much! Wu Yu

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[Bug 229153] docs-common should move to submodule (&docs-common)
by Red Hat Bugzilla 13 Apr '07

13 Apr '07

Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug report. Summary: docs-common should move to submodule (&docs-common) https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=229153 stickster(a)gmail.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |CLOSED Resolution| |RAWHIDE -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

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Re: hi, will you please add me to the EditGroup of FedoraCoreProject?
by Yuan Yijun 13 Apr '07

13 Apr '07

2007/4/13, 吴愚 <kiluawuyu(a)gmail.com>: > Hi, > *I have acquired an account for fedora account system with a username > "kiluawuy". > *I've register a wike account with a username "WuYu". Then add yourself on page EditGroupQueue http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EditGroupQueue > *I've already join the fedora-docs-list and fedora-trans-list. > *Now I'm get on working with my selfintroduction. > But I've tried many times to request for the cvs group(cvs10n), but no > one replies at all...So I wonder if there's another we to remind them my > request? Just wait a day or two. Or try to cry alout in #fedora-docs of freenode. Thanks! -- bbbush ^_^

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Self-Introduction, Wu Yu
by 吴愚 12 Apr '07

12 Apr '07

Hi all, Very pleased to join the fedora-docs-list! I am a undergraduate student of Tongji University, Shanghai, China, majored in Computer Science. I got good marks with my studies and was recommended to have graduate course without tests. I've been using Fedora Core from 1 to 6 since 2005 and I had a great experience. It widen my eyes with its beautiful user desktop and lots of open source software which I could modify them the way I wish! I consider it as a high efficiency operating system in which I could customize everything I like. One of the most important experience I have was that I won the third prize of National Intel Cup Embedded Competetion with the development environment of Fedora Core 4. Qt, Kdevelopment, Gaim....These tools really gave me excited experience. And most important of all, I enjoyed myself very much! Now I'm not satified with that I'm only a user. I want to be involved as one of the fedora core developers, too. First, I need to know more about Fedora Core, so I decide to work on the documentations first. And I'm ready to dodge myself in it! I hope you could accept me and help me at my startup. Thanks very much! Wu Yu

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Re: hi, will you please add me to the EditGroup of FedoraCoreProject?
by Yuan Yijun 12 Apr '07

12 Apr '07

2007/4/13, 吴愚 <kiluawuyu(a)gmail.com>: > Hi, > I'm a undergraduate student of Tongji University, Shanghai, majored in > Computer Science. I've been using fedora core since 2005 and I think it it a > fantastic linux distribution. > I won the third-prize of Intel Cup Embedde Competetion with the > development environment of Fedora Core 4, and always kept up the latest > function and characteristic, such as beryl, xen, etc. Fedora Core gives me a > lot of fun and now I'm eager to be involved of it. > I decided to start as a translator of Fedora Core Documentations, so I > could learn more about FC and help others to get more information about FC > at the same time. > So will you please add me to the EditGroup? Thanks very much! > Looking forward to your reply. > > Wu Yu Hi, Have you get the following things done: * acquire an account for fedora account system * register a wiki account (if so, what is your account?) * join fedora-docs-list and fedora-trans-list * post a "SelfIntroduction" to the fedora-docs-list * request for proper cvs group priviledges (cvsl10n, cvsdocs) Thanks! -- bbbush ^_^

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[Fwd: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Beats/Colophon" by MagnusLarsson]
by Karsten Wade 12 Apr '07

12 Apr '07

-------- Forwarded Message -------- - * [http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MagnusLarrson Magnus Larrson] (translator - Swedish) + * [http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MagnusLarsson Magnus Larsson] (translator - Swedish) D'oh! I think that was my mistake; rather obvious, too. Anyway, I fixed this in the XML but did *not* update the POT file. We'll merge this fix back into all the PO files after they are returned from translation, so the correction will make it into the ISO. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

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Self-Introduction: Jonathan Roberts
by Jonathan Roberts 12 Apr '07

12 Apr '07

Hi! My name is Jonathan Roberts and I've been following the list for a while and thinking about contributing but not really sure about the best place to start - I figured I can't go wrong with a self-introduction :D Things you may want to know about me: I live in the UK and I'm currently taking a gap year before heading off to university to study Theology, rather bizarely after changing my mind about studying Physics and Philosophy last year! To help me pass the time I've worked on a few projects: the Questions Please... podcast (http://questionsplease.org) where I've interviewed a range of very exciting people including Richard Stallman, Jeremy Allison, Jeff Waugh and Mark Shuttleworth - though struggling to get a hold of someone from the Fedora Project; I've also almost finished producing the "Free Me" DVD - an attempt to promote free culture in general (http://questionsplease.org/freeme/) which I'm quite excited about. As for my qualifications as a writer/editor: I studied English at higher level on the International Bacallaureate and scored a 5 (hugely disappointed not to have got a 6); I've been doing a bit of writing for Free Software Magazine (http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/blog/31677) and also a bit of editing when they've been short on time. I don't really have an idea of specific documents I would like to (help) write at the minute, I'll be sure to give this some thought over the next few days, but I do know that I would like to contribute back something to Fedora and I have the time and the inclination to, hopefully, make a reasonable contribution to the documentation project; if there's ever any editing that needs doing I'm happy to look over things like that as well. Well, that is possibly the longest self introduction you're ever likely to see?! Oh, and my GPG Key ID etc: B923BC72 1735 EF16 3EF2 EF9D A2DD 02B0 A791 8B23 B923 BC72 I prefer, however, to use webmail because I often access my e-mail from a number of different systems and it's easier for me to stay organised this way. I hope this is OK. Yours kindly, Jonathan Roberts

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Re: DUG Connecting to internet skipped...
by Nicolas A. Corrarello 12 Apr '07

12 Apr '07

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I asked someone to provide with In English screenshot, guess no one got to it yet. ... Please don't skip my page... nc Jonathan Roberts escribió: >> >> As for the vision, my eyesight's a little cloudy right now. I envision >> >> a core >> >> of common topics, such as OpenOffice.org and Firefox, with special >> >> sections on the particulars of GNOME, KDE, etc. A KDE example would >> >> be Konqueror. Of course, the GNOME, KDE and Xfce applications can be >> >> run from any window manager (with the required libraries installed). > > > > Would the best place to start be to try and draw up a comprehensive > > list of topics (or perhaps I should say tasks) that should be covered? > > Might be interesting to ask on the forums to get users feedback on > > what are the common tasks they do... >> >> >> >> I'm open to any ideas on the best way to organize the material. Some >> >> possibilities are: >> >> >> >> 1. Separate guides for GNOME and KDE. Xfce will be included if time >> >> permits. Obviously, there will be a great amount of overlap among the >> >> different guides. I believe these common topics are best handled >> >> by "includes" in both the wiki and DocBook versions. >> >> >> >> 2. A single guide which points out which apps are "native" to which >> >> window manager, but emphasizes that they can mix and match >> >> apps as desired, again with the required libraries installed. > > > > I think it's worth considering that the guides may be used by people > > who might not realise the difference between Gnome and KDE, in which > > case I think an integrated approach might be better as would help to > > make this clear. > > > > Jon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGHj2T4UWy+d/Ik+4RAqrqAJ9FOiNOMz+dF71SmsMLaGmFtEgoAQCgqc+q nKVYQrNYTSvv/La0+WA0qS8= =NHqR -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Cannot Access Fedora Doc Cvs !!! : (
by vmlinz 12 Apr '07

12 Apr '07

I wanna update my local cvs directory, and run cvs up release-notes-devel, the server replied : Cannot access /cvs/doc/CVSROOT No such file or directory Then i ping fedoraproject.org , no response My translation job is being done , and I wanna make a html to check bugs : (

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Self-Introduction: Peter Sulyok
by Sulyok Peti 12 Apr '07

12 Apr '07

Dear Fedora Members, My name is Péter Sulyok. I am from Budapest, Hungary. (+0100) I work on software development for a multinational mobile corp. I would like to take part in translation of docs/websites/packages, and start the Hungarian Welcome page in the wiki. I have been hanging around Fedora Project since the beginning. I have translated several packages for Fedora and other projects. I tried to write documentation (Firewall Tutorial), develop config tool (GUI for iptables) for Fedora. I have graduated in computer sciences, but I have got my computer skills mainly from the free softwares in the Internet. I work with Java, Oracle PL/SQL, and shell scripts now. I am also familiar with Python, C, C++, PHP, GTK+, QT, autoconf/automake, cvs, subversion, PostgreSQL, and system administration. Some of my products are available here: http://sp.web.elte.hu/index.html.en [peti@sutty ~]$ gpg --fingerprint E2EA75DC pub 1024D/E2EA75DC 2004-10-07 Key fingerprint = EE9A 945B C9FA 2943 656A A75A A92A 82E9 E2EA 75DC uid Sulyok Péter <peti(a)sulyok.hu> sub 2048g/DE2CE616 2004-10-07 Best Regards, Peti

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Fedora 7 DUG
by Karsten Wade 11 Apr '07

11 Apr '07

We need someone to step forward as a lead writer for the DUG. Is that John? You certainly did the bulk of that work in the last months before release. For Fedora 7, we can address some of the issues that we've known about, and which have come up in recent discussions: * Adding KDE * Continue focusing around tasks (what you can do, how to do it) * Push concept material (what is) to other documents For KDE, we'll need someone who knows KDE to write matching sections with the equivalent software. Anyone here interested? Or do we need to recruit someone? Bart has wrote down the process he used for converting the Wiki to XML. While I'm tempted to keep it in XML and edit that directly, I wonder if we'll still get more and better content if we use the Wiki and convert in a few weeks. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

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Common snippets
by Paul W. Frields 11 Apr '07

11 Apr '07

So today's realization of using xml:base triggered thoughts of a proper strategy for dealing with snippets. "Snippets" are what we've usually called the small pieces of XML that would be common across many documents, such as: * instructions for using CVS * legal notice in a variety of element structures * special notices such as how to report bugs A snippet might look like this: <tip> <title>Reporting Bugs</title> <para>Use Bugzilla and be forever in our hearts!</para> </tip> I am working on changing all common snippets into gettext form -- that is, using one basic XML (the en_US canonical version) and POT/PO to translate it. This is the same way we treat all other documents and the common entities. PROBLEM: --------- The location of a snippet is a URI that appears in a @href attribute in an <xi:include/> element. That means it can't be translated. But the @href must point to the proper locale version of a file, say, "legalnotice-en_US.xml" versus "legalnotice-pt_BR.xml". How do we ensure the @href points to the right place, in a sane, XML-compliant way? HYPOTHETICAL SOLUTION: ----------------------- 1. Use a new ${XMLSNIPPETS} variable in the document-specific Makefile, which is defined as one or more names of XML snippet files, separated by proper whitespace: XMLSNIPPETS = cvs.xml \ bug-reporting.xml \ legalnotice.xml 2. ${XMLSNIPPETS} file contents are not included in the POT for the specific document -- rather, they are translated in their common location, which only needs to be done once, and again whenever those actual snippets change content. 3. ${XMLSNIPPETS} files are included in the ${XMLDEPFILES} list of dependencies for the validation of the entire XML document. 4. ${XMLSNIPPETS} related targets are added to the Makefile.common to treat these files in a special way -- changing context to the ${FDPCOMMONDIR}/common folder and making any required targets for the indicated locale, then copying those target files (if updated) back to the document-specific locale folder. (In other words, these targets are created in much the same way as project-wide common entities files.) 5. A document author who wants to use a snippet inserts the appropriate XInclude in the document, and updates ${XMLSNIPPETS} in the document-specific Makefile. For an example file "snippet.xml", the XInclude looks like this and works throughout all locales: <xi:include xmlns:xi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude" href="snippet.xml" /> -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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[Fwd: Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide its the one for F7?]
by Nicolas A. Corrarello 11 Apr '07

11 Apr '07

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Self-Introduction: Vincenzo Di Biaggio
by Vincenzo Di Biaggio 11 Apr '07

11 Apr '07

Hi! I am Vincenzo Di Biaggio, i live in San Salvo, (CH), Abruzzo, Italy ( beautifulst sea and landscapes :D ) I work in a small company that it works in the automotive (quality control) I have studied until the 4 ' year of industrial and technical institute, but I have achieved a certificate for webmastering. I would want to participate to the translation of the documentation, which it's a your choice. I know the system linux much good, I php and know to realize Internet web sites with xhtml, xml, xslt, php, msql and much moore. I love the software open-source and the translation is useful also to improve my English :°) I hope that you will accept to me, I will be much happy!

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Self Introduction
by Damien Downey 11 Apr '07

11 Apr '07

Damien Downey Jasper County , Missouri USA My Goals in the Fedora Project: First I want to help out in someway and give back to the community I'm hoping that this will help me become a better writer, and more sociable.(Build self confidence) I hope to learn new ways of using Linux , from basics to subjects as programming and whatever else I hope maybe I can bring new ideas to the table Meet people I really have no qualifications to think of besides being an windows user that changed over to Linux for good Went to a tech school for Computer Networking and System Maintenance I really don't know what would make me an excellent match, I just want to contribute and participate in this and maybe other projects that will become a part of history now and in the future pub 1024D/63295313 2007-04-05 Key fingerprint = 9776 684E C32F CB63 CAE6 DE1D A298 DA50 6329 5313 uid Damien Downey (Open Source Projects) < chaos.theory.d(a)gmail.com> sub 2048g/56CAF5FF 2007-04-05

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Self-Introduction: Fabian Affolter
by Fabian Affolter 11 Apr '07

11 Apr '07

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, My Name is Fabian Affolter and I'm living in Berne / Switzerland. After 15 years of using computers my skills are only between intermediate and advanced stage, I'm not an expert. I wrote articles for it-relateted magazines in Switzerland about WLAN. Today most of my articles and tutorials are placed in the german fedora wiki ( fedorawiki.de ). Now I think it's time to add some stuff in german to the original fedoraproject wiki. Please visit this page for more details about me: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FabianAffolter Regards, Fabian 2F6C 930F D3C4 7E38 6AFA 4EB4 E23C D2DD 36A4 397F -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGBp0S4jzS3TakOX8RAiFmAJ9Rva9SF1TfTrKeVwymWKBxcHwGpACghxF3 ofTgUz9itSfDmLBbJ0RuYgQ= =/wx5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Self-Introduction: vmlinz
by vmlinz 11 Apr '07

11 Apr '07

Hi all, I'm vmlinz ,a student of Southwest JiaoTong University,China. When I know something about linux ,I'm longing for learning anything of it ,but here in my University there are not so much person involved in it. I'm not so skilled in linux ,but I want to learn it. Here my chance comes, the project give me a chance to do it. And i will try my best to do it . My GPG KEYID and fingerprint: [unconscious@vmlinz ~]$ gpg --fingerprint B87CD498 pub 1024D/B87CD498 2007-03-23 Key fingerprint = 05AF 9C1D 7A87 CCFB 499E 60F1 2D43 555C B87C D498 uid vmlinz (college student) <vmlinz(a)gmail.com> sub 2048g/F2A5B0C6 2007-03-23 Sincerely VmlinzQi.

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Latest work has been committed to the server :)
by vmlinz 09 Apr '07

09 Apr '07

HI, Zhe translation of release-notes/po/zh_CN.po is being done, latest work has been committed to the cvs server.

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meeting on Easter? oops, probably not
by Karsten Wade 08 Apr '07

08 Apr '07

Forgot that today is a holiday in most places. Hopefully no one is rushing to get to meet on time. I'll be there in 30 minutes, but if you aren't, can't, or don't want to be, then consider it canceled. If you show up anyway, that's OK, we'll find something to talk about. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

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Re: DocsProject common entities -- problem with translations?
by Karsten Wade 06 Apr '07

06 Apr '07

On Fri, 2007-04-06 at 08:22 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > Le Ven 6 avril 2007 03:58, Dimitris Glezos a écrit : > > > If we choose 1, we can make sure that we notify those language teams that > > substitute the entities that the entities have changed. They can then > > search-and-replace all their files and substitute everything at the same > > time > > If your problem is only updating release versions, why don't you just make > an entity with the number ? The number alone won't have the grammar > problems of the full release string You are right, that we could solve the numeric problems easily. And I see from the posts on f-trans-l that it is impossible for us to use entities for many/most words. It might help if it was understood what types of the problems that entities traditionally solve for technical writing. Example uses are: * A technical writer is working on content that involves using multiple GUI tools, such as system-config-securitylevel and setroubleshoot. The tool system-config-securitylevel also has a name in the GUI, Security Level Configuration. To write the documentation, the writer is going to refer to these applications multiple times. In each situation, the writer is going to need to write: <command>system-config-securitylevel</command> <command>setroubleshoot</command> <application>Security Level Configuration</application> At each typing, errors might be introduced. Macros could be used, which are not a very DocBook XML way of doing things, but that could be sufficient. However, it doesn't take care of the other example ... * Dan Walsh decides that "setroubleshoot" should really be an action name, so he changes it to "setroubleshooter". Without an entity, changing that is a mildly complex search and replace operation. In some cases, changing a name can require a grammar check. In English, for example, the articles "a" and "an" are used differently. If Dan changed the name to "troubleshootselinux", the writer would need to check every article that appeared before the searched-and-replaced text. FWIW, both of those things have happened to me (although Dan Walsh had nothing to do with it :). I had a product name change, but fortunately it was the removal of the word "Enterprise" in the middle of the product title. I updated the entity, rebuilt six books, and went on to something else for the afternoon. In other situations that happened to me, I has to to carefully edit grammar after an entity change. As I look through this, three things are apparent: 1. It's more work on writers without ff entities. 2. It's impossible in some languages for entities to work. 3. Numbers are safe to use for entities, some trademarks may be safe to use, e.g. <!ENTITY FEDVER "7" > <!ENTITY IBM "<trademark class="registered">IBM</trademark>" > <!ENTITY S390 "S/390" > ... oh, no way, that has to change to ... <!ENTITY S390 "System Z" > It seems that the writers have to accept the "more work", which could include coming up with a clever solution to the whole situation. More likely, we'll just muddle through somehow. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

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New statistics targets
by Paul W. Frields 06 Apr '07

06 Apr '07

I've added a couple new targets to our Makefile.common for use by translators and repo managers: make postat make postat-${LANG} (e.g.: make postat-pa) These targets will give you information on the current statistics for all languages (or a specific language). These targets rely, of course, on the definition of ${OTHERS} in the Makefile. If you need to force a new ${LANG} because it's not defined in the Makefile yet, you can use the form: OTHERS=${MYLANG} make -e postat-${MYLANG} e.g.: OTHERS=xx make -e postat-xx Output is clipped from the normal "msgfmt --stat" command to look like one of the following, where TT is translated, FF is fuzzy, and UU is untranslated: xx: TT/ xx: TT/UU/ xx: TT/FF/UU -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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Confused
by Damien Downey 06 Apr '07

06 Apr '07

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 My name is Damien Downey. I may not be reading everything right . But Im curious of how I should begin documentation . -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: http://firegpg.tuxfamily.org iD8DBQFGFVnropjaUGMpUxMRAgUGAJ91FVLrb/HHHjbAjNvDQvxw4Ju4tACghvx8 MZkXkmEyWuAoU6rf032rPRw= =9o8O -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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DocsProject common entities -- problem with translations?
by Dimitris Glezos 05 Apr '07

05 Apr '07

Hi all. The Docs Project is thinking of substituting entities like "Fedora 7" in all documentation with "&FC;", so that these entities won't change with each upgrade. For example, now we have in the PO: This paragraph is about Fedora. The change will make this: This paragraph is about &FED;. Is there any language that would have a problem with this? One such problem would be languages which change nouns ("Fedora") in different types of sentences, for example: * "This is Fedora" * "These features of Fedora" * "Burn Fedora on a CD" In greek we've left these untranslated and we won't have a problem. What about other languages? Is everyone OK with this? -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos(a)jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) --

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Re: DocsProject common entities -- problem with translations?
by Igor Miletic 05 Apr '07

05 Apr '07

On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 15:22 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > So it sounds like we will have annoyances no matter which choice we > make: > > 1. Using "xml2po -k" and keeping entities intact like &NAME; there are > translators who will be inconvenienced. They can still substitute > translations for the entity -- using the right form of "SomeName," > instead of the exact string "&NAME;" -- but there will be no benefit to > them in the event the entity changes. They may not even notice that it > *has* changed unless they are watching the > docs-common/common/entities/po/entities.pot file, and making the mental > connection. > > 2. Using "xml2po -e" and transforming the entities into strings in the > POT file, so "&NAME;" becomes "SomeName," it will be painful to change > single strings in a minor way, since *many* fuzzy entries potentially > result from trivial changes. > > We can revert to behavior #2, and I can get this into the POTs for > important modules now. I would like opinions within the next 24 hours. Vote for "-e" here, if entities are left "as is". However, if entities are only version numbers, files and possibly trademarks ("Fedora" and "Red Hat Inc."), I could support "-k" as well (as long it does not include name of projects). Regards, Igor

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Re: homepage/devel/po el.po, 1.4, 1.5 es.po, 1.4, 1.5 homepage.pot, 1.6, 1.7 it.po, 1.6, 1.7 pl.po, 1.9, 1.10 pt.po, 1.7, 1.8 pt_BR.po, 1.6, 1.7 ru.po, 1.3, 1.4 sr.po, 1.1, 1.2 sv.po, 1.4, 1.5 uk.po, 1.3, 1.4 zh_CN.po, 1.4, 1.5
by Igor Miletic 04 Apr '07

04 Apr '07

On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 16:38 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Author: pfrields > > Update of /cvs/docs/homepage/devel/po > In directory cvs-int.fedora.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv3652/po > > Modified Files: > el.po es.po homepage.pot it.po pl.po pt.po pt_BR.po ru.po > sr.po sv.po uk.po zh_CN.po > Log Message: > Update POT and PO adding franais to the locales > > #. Next para does not need to be translated. > #: en_US/homepage.xml:20(para) > +#, fuzzy > msgid "" > "<ulink url=\"index-pt_BR.html\">portugus brasileiro</ulink>, <ulink > url=" > -"\"index-el.html\"></ulink>, <ulink url=\"index-it.html\">italiano</" > -"ulink>, <ulink url=\"index-pl.html\">Polski</ulink>, <ulink url= > \"index-pt." > -"html\">portugus</ulink>, <ulink url=\"index-ru.html\">Pycc</ulink>, > " > -"<ulink url=\"index-zh_CN.html\"></ulink>, <ulink url= > \"index-es.html" > -"\">Espaol</ulink>, <ulink url=\"index-sv.html\">svenska</ulink>, and > <ulink " > -"url=\"index-en_US.html\">US English</ulink>." > +"\"index-el.html\"></ulink>, <ulink url=\"index-fr.html\">franais</" > +"ulink>, <ulink url=\"index-it.html\">italiano</ulink>, <ulink url= > \"index-pl." > +"html\">polski</ulink>, <ulink url=\"index-pt.html > \">portugus</ulink>, " > +"<ulink url=\"index-ru.html\">Pycc</ulink>, <ulink url= > \"index-zh_CN.html" > +"\"></ulink>, <ulink url=\"index-es.html\">Espaol</ulink>, <ulink " > +"url=\"index-sv.html\">svenska</ulink>, and <ulink url= > \"index-en_US.html" > +"\">US English</ulink>." > msgstr "" > "<ulink url=\"index-pt_BR.html\">portugus brasileiro</ulink>, <ulink > url=" > "\"index-el.html\"></ulink>, <ulink url=\"index-it.html\">italiano</" > @@ -98,37 +104,47 @@ > "\">Espaol</ulink>, <ulink url=\"index-sv.html\">svenska</ulink>, > <ulink " > "url=\"index-en_US.html\">US English</ulink>." > Can you add Serbian too: <ulink url=\"index-sr.html\">српски</ulink> ? Regards, Igor

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Re: homepage/devel/en_US homepage.xml,1.8,1.9
by "Piotr \"Raven\" Drąg" 04 Apr '07

04 Apr '07

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Paul W. Frields (pfrields) napisał(a): >  > <para><ulink url="index-pt_BR.html">portuguÃªs brasileiro</ulink>, > <ulink url="index-el.html">Î•Î»Î»Î·Î½Î¹ÎºÎ¬</ulink>, <ulink > - url="index-fr.html">French</ulink>, <ulink > + url="index-fr.html">franÃ§ais</ulink>, <ulink > url="index-it.html">italiano</ulink>, <ulink > url="index-pl.html">polski</ulink>, <ulink > url="index-pt.html">portuguÃªs</ulink>, <ulink > @@ -46,6 +46,7 @@ > <para><ulink url="RELEASE-NOTES-pt_BR.html">portuguÃªs > brasileiro</ulink>, <ulink > url="RELEASE-NOTES-el.html">Î•Î»Î»Î·Î½Î¹ÎºÎ¬</ulink>, <ulink > + url="RELEASE-NOTES-fr.html">franÃ§ais</ulink>, <ulink > url="RELEASE-NOTES-it.html">italiano</ulink>, <ulink > url="RELEASE-NOTES-pl.html">Polski</ulink>, <ulink ^^^^^^ It looks like it's not only in one place... :( - -- Piotr "Raven" Drąg http://raven.pmail.pl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGFA1bjBBsaE0M6qkRAufcAJoCju3OTV9sB0luzuQZXl0eriiBSgCgtNTj 7mo7bxpF1S1UO70XhGh0iG4= =24W/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Wiki work needed
by Paul W. Frields 04 Apr '07

04 Apr '07

Can anyone accept the following mission: 11:12:01 < f13> stickster_work: I'm going to be lame and point out a wiki page that needs editing, but without doing it myself or providing content for you :/ 11:12:54 < f13> stickster_work: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/HelpWanted this page doesn't seem to reflect the core/extras merger stuff, nor the wiki changes mether did around organizing Fedora Packagers and such at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers Would someone like to take the task of fixing the HelpWanted page to agree with Rahul's recent edits at PackageMaintainers? The objective is to properly portray the package collection as being unified rather than split into Core and Extras. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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Re: homepage/devel/en_US homepage.xml,1.6,1.7
by "Piotr \"Raven\" Drąg" 04 Apr '07

04 Apr '07

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Karsten Wade (kwade) napisał(a): > <para>This page is available in the following languages:</para> >  > <para><ulink url="index-pt_BR.html">portuguÃªs brasileiro</ulink>, > - <ulink url="index-el.html">Î•Î»Î»Î·Î½Î¹ÎºÎ¬</ulink>, <ulink > + <ulink url="index-el.html">Î•Î»Î»Î·Î½Î¹ÎºÎ¬</ulink>, <ulink > + url="index-fr.html">French</ulink>, <ulink > url="index-it.html">italiano</ulink>, <ulink > url="index-pl.html">Polski</ulink>, <ulink > It should be "polski", not "Polski" (like "italiano" above). - -- Piotr Drąg http://raven.pmail.pl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGE+RtjBBsaE0M6qkRAo5HAJ9OnRvYFU0GIYb0UuswdrC+IR+woQCfZPmR vVd34Upw0Qn5dlq/suV9M3c= =EpOt -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Release Notes for F7test4 - POT available
by Paul W. Frields 04 Apr '07

04 Apr '07

The POT for Release Notes for F7test4 is now available for translators in the Fedora Docs CVS. For instructions, please refer to the Translation Quick Start Guide¹, Chapter 4, "Translating Documentation." Please make sure you apply for cvsdocs access to be able to commit your translations! ** The deadline for PO files is 2359 UTC, April 14th 2007.² ** The module is available here: $ cvs -d :ext:<username>@cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs co release-notes-devel Please test your translations for validity by running "make validate-xml-<LANG>" when finished. If you have specific problems with the output, you can get help from the Fedora Documentation Project either on fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com or on IRC Freenode in channel #fedora-docs. The following PO files have been created so far³: ca cs da de el es fi fr gu hr it ja ml ms nb nl pa pl pt_BR pt ru sr@Latn sr sv ta uk zh_CN zh_TW If you translate another language, you can follow the instructions in the document above to add a new language to the list. Thank you for your time and efforts! = = = = = ¹ http://docs.fedoraproject.org/translation-quick-start-guide/ ² http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule ³ The following languages need to have common entity PO files created before any documents can be built in those languages: ca cs fi gu hr ml ms nb sr@Latn ta zh_TW -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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Heading styles
by Jonathan Roberts 03 Apr '07

03 Apr '07

Hi, sorry I'm sending *so* many mails to the list! Possible addition to the style guidelines would be that headings/titles should either be *all* capitalized, i.e. Cool Things To Do With Fedora, or first capital and then all lower case, i.e. Cool things to do with Fedora. Some documents currently have headings which look like "Cool Things To Do with Fedora" - the random use of capitals/lowercase is ugly, imho! Yours, Jon

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Question about the translation process of fedora 7 relnotes
by Yuan Yijun 03 Apr '07

03 Apr '07

Hi, I have some question about translation process. Vmlinuz may going to translate it. * What is the CVS url for fedora 7 relnotes? * What group should translator have in the fedora account system? * How to begin translation, I cannot find RELEASE-NOTES on fedora i18n status page, so how can I "TAKE" it? I rememberred for fc6 relnotes it was here: http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status?page=status&branch=HEAD&locale=z… * How to notify the others that I'm translating it? * When will POT file get ready, will there be any email notifications? * Do I need to modify "Makefile" and run "make xxxxx" to generate zh_CN.po as before? Thanks! -- bbbush ^_^

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readme-burning-isos - suggested changes
by Development discussions related to Fedora 02 Apr '07

02 Apr '07

Hi, Had a look over the above document on the F7t3 dvd iso, and felt it could use some additions {other than FC6 -> F7} which seems to be handled by some macros. http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/ readme-burning-isos/devel/en_US/README-BURNING-ISOS.xml?root=docs&rev=1.3&view=markup I'm not part of the cvsl10n group so if the cvs tree is still open before translation begins perhaps someone can check and commit ;) {I couldn't find the doc anywhere on the wiki, so assuming it's a cvs thing}. DaveT.

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want to mentor a GSoC project?
by Karsten Wade 01 Apr '07

01 Apr '07

We have several projects that have proposals in the Google Summer of Code. Right now, it looks as if we'll get three projects working this summer. Maybe four. Obviously that's too many for just one person to mentor. So this is your lucky chance! Aside from helping make a project happen, mentors get a GSoC t-shirt, and a chance at other goodies. Last year, I got to attend the Mentors Summit with mentors from all over the world, and we met at the famous Google campus in Mountain View. If you are interested, contact myself and Patrick Barnes. You'll also need to apply to be a mentor for The Fedora Project via: http://code.google.com/soc/mentor_home.html You need to do this right away, so you can help with the proposal selection process. During this process, mentors work with students on their active proposals, to work out which ones are accepted. cheers - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

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FDSCo Meeting 2007-04-01 Summary
by Paul W. Frields 01 Apr '07

01 Apr '07

Attendees: ----------- * Karsten Wade (chair) * Bob Jensen * Paul W. Frields Absent: * Bart Couvreur * Dimitris Glezos * John Babich * Pawel Sadowski Summary: --------- * Karsten and Paul will create in CVS a per-module Makefile.l10n that will be ACL'd so any cvsl10n members can edit it. L10n'ers can add support for their language in this file once a translation is underway. * Karsten and Paul will send email to fedora-{devel,maintainers}-list noting upcoming relnotes Wiki freeze on 2007-04-02, 2359 UTC. * FDP will start enforcing style guidelines with its writers, to both teach them the ropes and to ensure high-quality docs. Karsten and Paul will finalize the StyleGuide on the wiki¹ and link it from the docs.fp.o site. * Bob will be working on relnotes post wiki-freeze so they can enter the translation process. * Paul will be committing updated POT and PO for a variety of documentation today, using the new "xml2po -k" option. = = = = = ¹ http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/StyleGuide -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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FDSCo Meeting 2007-04-01 IRC log
by Paul W. Frields 01 Apr '07

01 Apr '07

12:00 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings 12:01 < stickster> Bob of any kind here? couf_afk? 12:02 < quaid> BobJensen-Away, couf_afk, stickster 12:02 < Bob-Laptop> morning buoys 12:02 < quaid> looking a little light in folks today 12:02 < quaid> I forget ... 12:02 < quaid> oh, no, I remember ... if four people, we can vote 12:03 < stickster> Yup, otherwise we just summarize 12:03 < Bob-Laptop> sorry I missed last week unexpectedly 12:03 < quaid> we'll hang out a few minutes to see if glezos shows, since he was thinking of an agenda item apparently 12:03 < stickster> Yup 12:04 * stickster is making lunch for kids, but mostly paying attention 12:05 * mull lurks 12:06 < quaid> hey mull 12:06 < mull> hey 12:06 < quaid> anyone mind waiting until :15 to start? see if any wayward folks arrive? 12:06 < quaid> we may not have enough to talk about anyway ... 12:06 < quaid> well, this close to release, there is always something to think about. 12:11 * mull notices an outdated screenshot in the DUG 12:12 < mull> the login screen has changed entirely from what's there... 12:13 < stickster> mull: Use your wiki powers :-) 12:16 < quaid> or ... 12:16 < mull> hmmm, gotta think of the best way to get a screenshot of gdm login, though 12:16 < quaid> do we need the screenshot? 12:17 < mull> I'm not sure. what sort of feedback have to been getting about the "screenshots are generally bad" email? I haven't kept up 12:17 < stickster> mull: You can use Xnest to do it 12:18 < stickster> i.e. gdmthemetester 12:19 < mull> k, working out deps to install that 12:19 < mull> Xnest had file conflicts with another Xorg package... 12:20 < stickster> mull: FC6? 12:20 < mull> F7 12:20 * stickster goes PM with mull to keep channel clear 12:21 < stickster> quaid: Let's just go ahead and barrel through for now 12:22 < stickster> glezos put something on the agenda about l10n users' access to Makefile 12:22 < stickster> Can we do that, in addition to po/ stuff? 12:22 < stickster> I have no objection, means they can test translations right away 12:23 < quaid> oh, ic 12:23 < quaid> yeah, i suppose we can 12:23 < quaid> it's not the .common 12:23 < stickster> Right 12:23 < quaid> although I suppose we could include a Makefile.l10n instead and have just that r/w 12:24 < stickster> quaid: Oh, that is actually a very good idea! 12:24 < quaid> oh! 12:24 * quaid is pwoud of himself now 12:24 < stickster> Oops, didn't mean to sound so surprised :-D 12:24 * quaid retroactively declares 12:24 < quaid> <meeting> 12:24 < quaid> ha! 12:25 * stickster volunteers for log/summary duties 12:26 < quaid> ok, thanks 12:26 < quaid> so we solved the first thing :) 12:26 < quaid> what is the ? on the FDUG 12:27 < stickster> I don't know whether that's just a call for status, or what. 12:27 < stickster> jmbabich is stateside for a while and may not be able to do much with it for the next little while 12:27 < stickster> I see that a contributor has stepped in to work on it a little 12:27 < stickster> I would like to see more folks pitching in. 12:28 < quaid> yes 12:28 < quaid> but then we get that good ol' inconsistency of style and methods 12:29 < stickster> Right 12:29 < stickster> Are we concerned at all about the growing number of guides and the lack of follow-through? 12:30 < quaid> not yet 12:30 < quaid> there shall be some purging, soon enough 12:31 < stickster> okey-dokey 12:31 < quaid> here's what I think ... 12:31 < quaid> I think FDSCo needs to set and enforce some heavy-handed style guidelines 12:31 < quaid> we sort of have, but we are always concerned about offending writers 12:31 < stickster> *nod 12:31 < quaid> but you never see Ulrich (bad example!) being nice about someone's coding style 12:32 < stickster> That's an excellent point 12:32 * stickster rubs hands gleefully 12:32 < stickster> And we do have an excellent Style guide on the wiki, thanks to Patrick 12:34 < quaid> I'm happy to tell people what I think they should do, but it would help if we were all consistent together on this 12:35 * BobJensen-Away looks to EvilBob... 12:35 < BobJensen-Away> hehehe 12:36 < stickster> quaid: If it's not documented in our Style docs on the wiki, very easy to add sections 12:36 < stickster> Then we all have a common cry 12:37 < quaid> I'm happy with that style guide, now that I clarified on the active/passive voice stuff :) 12:37 * stickster forgets the clarification 12:37 < stickster> I do see a lot of passive voice still in the Style Guide though :-D 12:37 < quaid> I know 12:38 < stickster> Is that OK by you? 12:38 < quaid> not necc 12:38 < quaid> just lazy about fixing it 12:38 < quaid> suppose I can do that 12:43 < stickster> So I was about to say, the situations where passive voice works better do exist, but they're rare 12:43 < stickster> We rarely put out "guidelines" or "recommendations" in our technical docs. Usually it's procedural, and we're indicating exactly what to do. 12:44 < stickster> Even in a "guideline" situation, you can label active voice with "Use the following guidelines" for an itemized list, and still use active voice 12:46 < stickster> Ha! 12:46 < stickster> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/StyleGuide/GeneralGuidelines 12:46 < stickster> Look at the first admonition 12:46 < stickster> "Passive voice should be avoided unless necessary" :-D 12:47 * stickster decides to give it a pass-through 12:47 < quaid> heh 12:47 < quaid> ah, irony 12:47 < quaid> go ahead 12:47 * stickster wields the machete 12:47 * quaid is on CommonMistakes atm 12:48 < stickster> Do we have any other agenda item updates? 12:48 < stickster> Let me jump in with a status on CVS -- we are now using "xml2po -k". I will be rebuilding and committing POT/PO today, so there will be commits coming through. 12:49 < stickster> *end of stickster biznez 12:50 * stickster gets rid of "commanding voice" (whatever that means), which necessitates use of "you" 12:51 < quaid> that's fine 12:52 < quaid> I need to look at GSoC eventually 12:52 < stickster> No one here for the other items, let's close the meeting and jam 12:53 < quaid> ok, I see Patrick accepted my mentor request 12:53 < stickster> cool 12:53 < quaid> so now I have a queue 12:53 < quaid> I need to grow some more mentors 12:53 < quaid> I'll ask on the list :) 12:55 < stickster> Everybody knows Wiki freeze is coming up tomorrow, yes? 12:57 < stickster> 2359 IIRC 12:59 * quaid scared! 12:59 < stickster> yeah, looks a little sparse this time 12:59 < quaid> fuckers 12:59 * stickster predicts a mad rush post test4 12:59 < stickster> H 12:59 < quaid> its because rahul is leaving us out to dry :D 12:59 < stickster> No slam against mether, he carries a lot of buckets 12:59 < quaid> stickster: will you ... 12:59 < quaid> send an email to ... 13:00 * stickster prepares blog entry 13:00 < quaid> f-devel-l? 13:00 < stickster> Sure 13:00 < quaid> ok, that too 13:00 < stickster> both, +1 13:00 < quaid> BobJensen: are you on f-maintainers? 13:00 < Bob-Laptop> Please 13:00 < quaid> Bob-Laptop: can you email f-maintainers? 13:00 < Bob-Laptop> I have not been able to sent email out for 11 or 12 days 13:00 < stickster> yikes 13:00 < quaid> we need to let the former Extras group know that this is their relnotes, too 13:00 < quaid> Bob-Laptop: woah 13:01 * quaid takes f-maintainers 13:01 < Bob-Laptop> I am working on upgrading the mail server to CentOS 4.92 today it was FC2, something is busted 13:02 < stickster> Bob-Laptop: Scan bugzilla for things with requires-fedora-release-note flag on 13:02 < stickster> Make sure we have that stuff covered too 13:02 < stickster> I think that was the flag name... 13:02 < Bob-Laptop> stickster: Yup 13:02 * stickster has got to get to the IG today if possible 13:03 < Bob-Laptop> once I get this mail working I will be in BZ and wiki until we freeze 13:03 < stickster> k 13:03 < Bob-Laptop> I took tomorrow off because I know the notes need work 13:04 < quaid> ok, Bob-Laptop has BZ 13:04 < quaid> there may not be much, i haven't looked recently though 13:04 < stickster> I've been keeping an eye on stuff coming on the relnotes mail feed, I don't think there's a walloping lot 13:06 * quaid sends f-maintainers email and uses "stupidly easy" in it 13:06 < stickster> heh, way to tweak 'em 13:06 * stickster will take care of f-devel-l 13:07 < stickster> I'm copying your email. 13:08 < Bob-Laptop> I had pinged Rex to get some KDE info in to the beats, not sure if anything happened there 13:08 < stickster> Bam! 13:08 * stickster kicks it up a notch 13:09 < stickster> Are we EOM now? 13:09 < quaid> yes 13:09 < quaid> </meeting> -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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Getting started: DUG
by Jonathan Roberts 01 Apr '07

01 Apr '07

Hi, I've been looking over all the information and feel I'm ready to get started. The only trouble is that I'm reluctant to in case I over step the mark and make changes that I think are necessary/useful but others might not agree with and I'd hate to create further work for people in undoing my changes! For now there are some paragraphs on the DUG that definitely need a few changes just to read properly and I guess I'll make those as they're only going to be minor and it will be a start :D Guess I'll just take things gradually and ask that somebody tell me if I do something horrible and I'll fix it! Yours, Jon

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