While I'm confident neither with regard to my talent nor the extent of my free
time (http://jmbuser.livejournal.com/1450.html), I certainly would like to
pitch in with the documentation project if there's a perception I might do
more good than damage.
I certainly have gotten a lot of mileage out of the Fedora project over the
past few years and, as a goal, would love to give a little back. Having a
substantial degree of scientific writing experience, I might be useful
with "volunteering to edit draft documents" or with "providing feedback on
the draft documentation published on the Wiki and the mailing list"
(http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join) if grammar/structure/clarity
issues are significant. On the other hand, If I sound relatively useless, I
won't be offended with a candid 'go away'.
pub 1024D/332685A5 2007-04-17
Key fingerprint = B517 98A4 1109 A813 C8D1 95C4 728E 5444 3326 85A5
uid David A Thompson <thompson(a)fresno.edu>
sub 1024g/C86DB82C 2007-04-17
David Alan Thompson
Faculty in Biology
Fresno Pacific University
1717 S Chestnut Ave
Fresno CA 93702
PS Other 'introductory'-type material: I am a biologist/chemist by trade,
although I've been playing with computers back since trying to program my own
version of PacMan in machine language on my Commodore 64 back in junior high.
I've enjoyed using various versions of unix and linux back since my dad
bought me an old Sun in the 90's. These days my 'programming' efforts are
mostly confined to cheesy perl scripts and entertaining myself with lisp.
This is my first mail in the list.
My main goal is to spread the words of Fedora and in the same time help others
to make it better.I am a Fedora Ambassador from India and I do manage few
packages in Fedora repo. In Fedora Docs project, I want to take charges of
the translation of the docs in to bn_IN. I wrote some short tutorials on
different FOSS tools and some with video (
pub 1024D/2DB3CBFD 2005-12-01
Key fingerprint = 1C5D A020 0DB9 11EB 8A86 690E 58E0 5A4A 2DB3 CBFD
uid Kushal Das <kushal(a)fedoraproject.org>
uid Kushal Das <kushaldas(a)gmail.com>
sub 1024g/BF4C22A4 2005-12-01
Fedora Ambassador, India
There is support for media handling in Pirut in the development version
but the required auto configuration in Anaconda during installation is
not there yet. It currently requires manual configuration to work. See
the package changelog for details.
If you are interested, take a look at it and write up a documentation
for Fedora 7. I told Jeremy Katz that I will be looking at putting this
in the release notes itself but ran out of time. We could add a link to
another wiki page still or sneak in a help button with details.
At any rate, we do need this documentation before the release. Anyone?
I just made a change to the about-fedora POT/PO -- a very small one
removing the word "Core". Only two strings are affected by this trivial
change. If you get a chance, please visit the "about-fedora-devel"
module and update your PO there. Thank you to everyone!
Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrieldsirc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
Dimitris Glezos (glezos)
John Babich (jmbuser)
Bob Jensen (BobJensen)
Karsten Wade (quaid)
Jonathan Roberts (jonrob)
Mike McGrath (mmcgrath)
1. F7 release notes dropped for translation
* [glezos] Can gather statistics later to see when translators did
their work (commits) to see if the extra days in the schedule are
2. Recruiting and retaining contributors for FDP
* [all] Discuss on list; empower users to start and maintain their
* [all] Need to review our world in light of this post Dimitris made:
* [quaid, all] A clear task list for the entire project is needed.
Rework/combine DocsProject/SteeringCommitte/TaskSchedule and
DocsProject/Tasks. Identify the skill or experience level needed
for each task (which helps to identify/separate FDSCo-only tasks).
3. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007 ... FDP has two of
the five projects as primary, and a third project we are intimately
connected to. For more information, use that page to read up on
the separate projects.
* [quaid, nman64] Work out the situation with two students from two
different *SoC projects working on man/info publishing solutions.
4. F7 guides
* [all] Project (via mailing list) needs to pick lead writers,
writing team, and schedule sto produce the F7 guides - FUG, FIG,
5. L10n status
* [all] Communicate regularly with f-trans-l (multiple times a
week); look in CVS commits for "replies" to messages, won't
always be on list.
* [all] Plan on what we can start to move to Plone; it might leave
Wiki-ness behind in favor of XHTML and the Plone editor; Plone
handles l10n-per-page very nicely. It is vital that our project
website better server non-English speakers by making it easier to
* [quaid, mmcgrath] Resolve how docs.fp.o relates to the overall
Plone installation on fp.o.
6. [quaid] Talk with John Poelstra, offer FDP to be an early
adopter/guinea pig for project management ideas, methodologies, and
tools in Fedora.
Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project
Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProjectquaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41
Joe Orton wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 02:28:42PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>> Joe Orton wrote:
>>> Hi Rahul, why has all the content for the Web Server "beat" been
>> We don't support upgrades from Fedora Core 4 to Fedora 7. Only from two
>> previous releases. Notes on that is thus not useful.
> OK. Why did you also remove the stuff about apr-util-mysql (relevant to
> those upgrading from FC6)?
Accidental. Along with the note on Fedora Core 4 it appeared to be left
over content from the previous release.
Joe Orton wrote:
> Hi Rahul, why has all the content for the Web Server "beat" been
We don't support upgrades from Fedora Core 4 to Fedora 7. Only from two
previous releases. Notes on that is thus not useful.
09:15 < quaid> <meeting>
09:15 < glezos> got carried away in a chinese buffet :)
09:16 < quaid> BobJensen. glezos, couf_away, stickster_afk good morning
09:16 < BobJensen> Morning Karsten
09:16 < glezos> Agenda is here:
09:16 * BobJensen has company so will be here hit and miss
09:17 < quaid> ok, I can handle the first item easily
09:17 < quaid> we got the final release notes dropped for translation
yesterday, it ended up only being about 12 hours late
09:18 < quaid> Paul actually had the POT/PO updated only a few hours after
midnight UTC, but i did a final edit pass since it was the
literally last chance for the ISO.
09:18 < quaid> from here, we'll track changes for the Web-only update, which
will also include a chance to update translations for the Web.
09:18 < quaid> and the cycle continues ...
09:19 < glezos> quaid: that's not a problem since translators can start working
on the first right away
09:19 * quaid also sent out a whiney, 3 am blog post on the subject
09:19 < quaid> oh, on a related subject
09:20 < quaid> we had a few small weirdnesses, but the notes and translations
all made it into test4 just fine, middle of last week
09:20 < quaid> the schedule here is a bit brutal, because of the extra days we
added for trans this time.
09:21 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser(a)220.127.116.11] has joined #fedora-docs
09:21 < jmbuser> Sorry I'm late...
09:21 < glezos> quaid: we can study when did our l10n contributors committed
their translations (were they on the first 2 days or on the
last 2 days, weekdays or weekends) to see if the extra days
were used after all.
09:21 < quaid> ok! good idea
09:22 < BobJensen> +1
09:22 < quaid> jmbuser: no worries, better safe than sorry :)
09:22 -!- hers [n=chatzill(a)18.104.22.168] has joined #fedora-docs
09:22 < quaid> jmbuser: we started a little bit later and are just on the first
09:22 * quaid blasts current log of meeting to jmbuser in pm
09:24 < quaid> ok, that seems a completed topic :)
09:24 < jmbuser> quaid: thanks
09:24 * quaid is working on closing f-dsco-l at this moment, too
09:25 < glezos> quaid: fedora-dsco-list?
09:25 -!- hers [n=chatzill(a)22.214.171.124] has quit [Client Quit]
09:25 < quaid> glezos: yes
09:25 < quaid> ok, so, moving on ...
09:26 < jmbuser> BTW, I want to thanks everyone, especially quaid, stickster
09:26 < JonRob> +1
09:26 < quaid> I didn't want to dive into a long discussion of recruiting and
retaining for the project
09:26 < quaid> jmbuser: thanks :)
09:26 < quaid> I think the R&R discussion is good for the list
09:27 < quaid> but I wanted to address it enough so that those here are
thinking about it, and will participate in the discussion
09:28 < quaid> any thoughts on the subject for here?
09:29 < glezos> quaid: I remember a similar discussion a month ago and a
suggestion from me:
09:29 < quaid> ok, making it easier to contribute is always a good idea :)
09:30 < quaid> some stuff improves with Wiki changes, etc.
09:30 < JonRob> i definately feel, as a new member here, that some kind of a
more clear todo list would be a good idea
09:31 < glezos> for retaining, two good ways to make it happen could be to make
ideas of new members easier to happen and to make them
maintainers of them, again, early on.
09:31 < quaid> one of my concerns is with existing projects, though, and
starting more new projects isn't going to help that as much.
09:31 < glezos> JonRob: +1. Our TaskSchedule page is a mess and shows stuff
we've been working for months but didn't achieve
09:32 < quaid> maybe step 1 is to straighten out the current task needs before
making it easier to start new stuff :)
09:32 < JonRob> quiad: yes
09:32 < quaid> also, that is an FDSCo task schedule
09:32 < quaid> not a project task schedule
09:32 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks
09:32 < quaid> that is a methodology document!
09:32 < quaid> eek
09:33 < glezos> quaid: didn't know about that. :) (the title of the page reads
"Fedora Docs Open Tasks")
09:33 < quaid> seems like a good place to start would be to distill and
organize tasks there, right?
09:33 < quaid> glezos: right, that is also a problem :)
09:33 < jmbuser> quaid: Despite stickster's heroic efforts, I'm still a little
fuzzy on the Beats process :-)
09:33 < quaid> jmbuser: you mean, the technical weenie parts, or the social
content gathering parts/
09:33 < glezos> quaid: people see those tasks and say "no way I could help with
09:33 < jmbuser> quaid: the former
09:34 < quaid> ok, so task 1 from this meeting is:
09:34 < quaid> 1. Rework DP/SC/TaskSchedule and DP/Tasks so the former is all
for FDSCo and obvious, and the latter is generic and well
09:35 < glezos> quaid: is there a real need to separate the two?
09:35 < quaid> good question
09:35 < glezos> I mean, both of them are FDP tasks, it's just that some of them
need more experience.
09:35 < quaid> good point
09:35 < quaid> that is probably an outfall of sometimes on FDSCo would be
avaialble to do stuff
09:36 < JonRob> if you put them together at least have them under clear
headings, otherwise could be overwhelming/scary
09:36 < glezos> yup
09:36 < quaid> maybe a column, "Expertise level required"
09:36 < JonRob> something similar to the layout of the new join page?
09:37 < quaid> JonRob: you mean the master Join page? wiki/Join
09:37 < JonRob> yeah
09:37 < quaid> perhaps, although that design seems to work great for directing
desire, but not as much for tracking tasks
09:38 < JonRob> the clear headings with sharp bullet points make it accessible
09:38 < quaid> ah, I see
09:39 < JonRob> something which some sort of a todo list needs to be to make
new users feel they can really bite
09:39 < quaid> ok, we'll start with reworking and combining those pages into
one; means retiring the TaskSchedule most likely since that is
an obscure URL
09:39 < quaid> anything else? or to the list with this discussion?
09:40 < glezos> the more clear we are on what we *are* doing and what we *want*
to do (and how important/urgent) each task is, the better
picture new and experienced members would choose where to turn
their attention to
09:40 < glezos> ok for the list..
09:40 < quaid> +1
09:40 < jmbuser> quaid: proceed
09:40 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007
09:40 < quaid> for those who aren't aware
09:40 < quaid> we have two main projects there, and a closely related to us one
09:41 < glezos> yay for Fedora Docs! :)
09:41 < quaid> :)
09:41 < quaid> so, just be aware that Google gave 2 extra months at the
09:41 < jmbuser> glezos: Congrats on your winning entry
09:41 < quaid> getting people connected into the projects early
09:42 < quaid> so, we know what glezos is doing, that has been well discussed
09:42 < glezos> jmbuser: thanks :)
09:42 < quaid> what daMaestro (JonathanSteffan) is doing is the magic between
Plone and the rest of our tools
09:43 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007/JonathanSteffan
09:43 < quaid> you can read all the cracky ideas there :)
09:43 < glezos> quaid: unfortunately, I won't be able to really get my hands on
code until the end of May. However we could start some work on
setting up the domain, discussing the details etc.
09:43 < quaid> glezos: that's to be expected, sure
09:43 < quaid> glezos: you are already ahead of the curve anyway :)
09:44 < quaid> the extra time really serves people where the student is brand
new to the project
09:44 < glezos> yup
09:44 < quaid> there is one other interesting thing we're going to be seeing
worked out onlist soon, I hope
09:44 < quaid> a student in a different summer of code project is also working
on the man/info project
09:44 < quaid> from a different angle
09:44 < quaid> so we're likely to send up with a couple of solutions there.
09:45 < glezos> cool
09:45 < jmbuser> excellent
09:45 < quaid> yeah, unfortunately they are not allowed to work together, a
strange irony of the SoC process
09:45 < jmbuser> hmmmmm
09:46 < quaid> any questions here, or shall we move on to discuss F7 guides?
09:46 < jmbuser> quaid: nothing wrong with interfacing independently with FDP?
09:47 < quaid> nope
09:47 < quaid> don't think so
09:48 < jmbuser> quaid: that's good
09:48 < quaid> we'll see how it progresses, maybe a natural break occurs to
make it modular v. two parallel projects, and we get one to work
on part A, the other on part B
09:48 < quaid> I haven't contacted the other mentor for this yet
09:51 < glezos> shall we move on?
09:51 < jmbuser> +1
09:51 < quaid> thx, yes
09:51 * quaid is also making roll-up pancakes :)
09:51 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule#guides-schedule
09:52 < quaid> so, that is for any guides that wanted to be translated and
shipped with F7
09:53 < jmbuser> quaid: so any changes to the DUG are for next release?
09:54 < quaid> uh, well
09:54 < quaid> that is only if we want to ship with the release
09:54 < quaid> maybe that is unrealistic
09:54 < glezos> too bad :(
09:54 < quaid> or rather, it is obviously unrealistic now :)
09:54 < quaid> well, we can ship non-trans with the release
09:54 < quaid> at least the DUG is moving forward
09:55 < JonRob> what's happening with the DUG after last meeting? or is that a
topic for the list?
09:57 < quaid> list topic, I reckon
09:57 < jmbuser> JonRob: I think so, too
09:57 < quaid> so, maybe checking on the IG and AG are both good list topics
09:58 < glezos> quaid: slightly off-topic: do we have an estimation for a
working Plone installation?
09:58 < quaid> glezos: fairly soon, in terms of installed to work with;
mmcgrath has it on his task list right now, aiui
09:58 < glezos> I'm asking to see how soon could we start into resolving some
of the fragmentation we have in our various Docs
09:59 < quaid> it will be later in the Summer for magic to start happening
09:59 < glezos> ok, thanks
10:01 < glezos> anything else to be added before moving to L10N?
10:01 < quaid> nope
10:01 < glezos> okie
10:02 < glezos> so, *some* stats for our translations is at:
10:02 < glezos> not too helpful probably (guides are not mentioned there) but
quite some translators have requested access to the cvsl10n
10:03 < glezos> One of the tasks we could have for this week, as mentioned
earlier, is to see when translations for relnotes were
submitted to see how many days translators actually need
10:04 < glezos> Since we don't yet have a stats page, some reminders to the
-trans-list about urgent docs needing translations, and
generally, updates on our docs, could be very useful
10:05 < jmbuser> glezos: Are the stats something you are developing further
10:05 < quaid> ok, good point
10:05 < glezos> jmbuser: yes, it's a major part of the GSoC project.
10:05 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007/DimitrisGlezos
10:06 < quaid> details there
10:06 < glezos> quaid: the more updates the better. Even one-liners; the l10n
team actually feels a bit un-informed about doc/app updates :)
10:06 * jmbuser thinks updates and stats are good
10:06 < quaid> ok!
10:06 < quaid> maybe a daily or every-other-day update at this point would be
10:07 < quaid> glezos: here is why i am shy ... I have written often to
f-trans-l without a response, so i don't know when it helps that
i email, and I don't want people to burn out on seeing my
10:07 < glezos> quaid: have you checked about responses in the form of CVS
10:08 < glezos> I mean, Paul wrote recently about reverting the xml2po flag but
I didn't reply to him that I updated the greek translation of
10:09 < glezos> One final point that recently concerns me is that of
translation of the Website (Wiki for now) in general. We have
been absolutely horrible in this respect b/c the wiki simply
lacks a l10n workflow but I hope that Plone will fix this.
10:09 < quaid> hmm, ok
10:09 < quaid> how?
10:09 < quaid> how will Plone fix this?
10:10 < glezos> it supports l10n for every page
10:10 < quaid> are you thinking we'll move to the Plone Wiki tool from Moin?
10:10 < glezos> quaid: no, I am not conerned in translating every wiki page,
just the important ones
10:11 < quaid> ok
10:11 < quaid> ah! good point
10:11 < glezos> at some point we will need to decide what will be transferred
to Plone, right? Like GNOME, they have gnome.org but also a
wiki at live.gnome.org
10:11 < quaid> we need to identify pages that need to move from Wiki to Plone
10:11 < quaid> right
10:11 * mmcgrath notes we can have a production plone instance very soon.
10:11 < jmbuser> Both moinmoin and plone have their uses
10:11 < quaid> this is something we can start to do before daMaestro starts his
thing, i think
10:11 < mmcgrath> pre F7.
10:12 < glezos> quaid: sure. Also, we'd need to see how we are going to
implement docs.fedoraproject.org (separate Plone instance? etc)
10:12 < glezos> anyway, this falls in the scope of the Websites Project I guess.
10:12 < quaid> probably a dive into a specific location in Plone
10:12 < quaid> yeah
10:14 < glezos> I'm through with what is on my mind about Docs+L10N
10:14 < quaid> mmcgrath: cool
10:14 < quaid> sorry
10:14 < quaid> that wasn't directed at mmcgrath actually :)
10:15 < quaid> ok, anything else?
10:16 * quaid should be able to do the log and summary again this week
10:16 < quaid> already working on it :)
10:16 < glezos> quaid: great, thanks
10:16 < jmbuser> quaid: Thanks
10:16 < JonRob> awesome :D
10:17 < quaid> sorry I'm such a crappy project manager, btw, it's not my
strongest suit :)
10:17 < quaid> if it were, I know FDP would be in a bit better shape
10:17 < glezos> quaid: how much better? :)
10:17 * quaid contemplates recruiting poelstra to help
10:17 < quaid> glezos: different-better :)
10:18 * glezos should return to study now. ta ta guys
10:18 < quaid> actuallly ... I'll talk with John about FDP being an early
adopter of his PM methodologies
10:18 < quaid> we're good at that :)
10:18 < quaid> yep, we can finish
10:18 < quaid> </meeting>
As usual, the Fedora Docs Steering Committee (FDSCo) will meet on
freenode, #fedora-meeting, today at 1600 UTC.
Information about the next meeting can be found on our meeting page at
and on this mailing list.
All members of the community are welcome to attend and participate in
Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project