Just a quick notice to say that for the following 2 months I'll be away from
Fedora and mailing lists due to a pile of work and a ton of upcoming stuff
(thesis writing, big trip, GSoC, blah).
This is done to ensure that after this period I'll still have the little hair
I'm left with. Not that it will do much help, but one can only hope.
I'll try to pop-in every now and then with comments but avoid actual work and
regular updates. For FDSCo, if my presence is needed for a meeting or my opinion
for a matter, you guys just give a shout.
Awaiting to return in full throttle again in the summer with the GSoC project.
Jabber ID: glezos(a)jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B
"He who gives up functionality for ease of use
loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous)
= IRC Log =
09:06 < quaid> <meeting>
09:06 < quaid> and good morning, and welcome back jmbuser
09:07 < jmbuser> quaid: my eyes read docs but my brain hears meeting
09:07 < quaid> agenda at ...
09:07 < jmbuser> quaid: nice to be back
09:07 < quaid> jmbuser: heh, no vacation quite like the end of vacation.
09:08 < robertjs> Good morning mates, my name is Robert and i'm a
member of the docs project.
09:09 < jmbuser> robertjs: Greetings, Robert
09:09 < quaid> robertjs: good morning :)
09:09 < kiluawuyu> me, too :)
09:10 < robertjs> Thanks to all :)
09:10 < jmbuser> kiluawuyu: Good day to you
09:10 < kiluawuyu> Thanks a lot :D
09:11 * quaid updates the agenda a bit
09:11 < quaid> 1.
09:11 -!- Irssi: Pasting 6 lines to #fedora-docs. Press Ctrl-K if you
do this or Ctrl-C to cancel.
09:12 < quaid> Finalize name and structure of Fedora 7 edition of
User Guide - JohnBabich
09:12 < quaid> 2. Status of delivery test4 relese notes
09:12 < quaid> 3. GSoC thinking
09:12 < quaid> 4. Admin Guide discussion
09:12 < quaid> 5. L10N other
09:12 < quaid> something like that :)
09:12 < quaid> jmbuser: so, lots of DUG discussion, etc. How are you
about it all?
09:15 * quaid wonders if we lost jmbuser's 'net connection
09:15 < robertjs> :p
09:16 * quaid goes to 'cvs up -d' the release-notes module to see how
in the meantime
09:16 < kiluawuyu> Do we need to add some other help document into DUG
if typical error occurs?
09:16 < robertjs> jmbuser: Are you there?
09:16 < quaid> yeah, probably a dropped connection
09:17 < BobJensen-Away> I am really sorry I got my self "triple booked"
09:17 < quaid> BobJensen-Away: hey, quick q for you
09:17 < BobJensen-Away> quaid: I should have about 15 minutes
09:17 < quaid> BobJensen-Away: since this is a test release, are we
the rules about "how much % translated"
09:17 < quaid> for the release notes
09:18 < BobJensen-Away> quaid: Yes, we are only hard core on the final
09:18 < quaid> I think some of what I see here is false fuzziness
the entities reversal
09:18 < quaid> BobJensen-Away: +1
09:18 < BobJensen-Away> as a result some may be in the test4 partially
completed but not included in final if no
09:19 < BobJensen-Away> IIRC we had a 90% rule? is that correct for
09:19 < quaid> yes
09:19 < quaid> we may want to ask our L10n experts if that is
09:19 < quaid> (we can follow up on that separately)
09:19 < BobJensen-Away> +1 to that
09:20 < BobJensen-Away> I like "any attempt" to be in the tests as a way
encouraging the translators
09:20 < quaid> yes
09:21 < quaid> it looks like we are a day ahead of schedule, I think
releases schedule bumped up by a day
09:22 * quaid is working on agenda item 2 in case it isn't clear
09:22 < quaid> making sure we are ready to deliver the release-notes
time for test4
09:22 < quaid> (also the about-fedora and homepage modules)
09:23 < BobJensen-Away> quaid: RE: about-fedora
09:23 < BobJensen-Away> did we find a solution to the issue with that?
09:24 < quaid> BobJensen-Away: I *think* we have something working, but
forget the details
09:24 * quaid writes an email of a few questions for stickster_afk
09:24 < BobJensen-Away> OK, just checking, I was a little out of the
09:24 < quaid> no worries, me too :)
09:25 -!- jmbuser_ [n=jmbuser(a)188.8.131.52] has joined #fedora-docs
09:25 < quaid> et voila!
09:25 < BobJensen-Away> We are checking out a new camping area this
our first campout planned for June 8
09:25 < jmbuser_> I'm back
09:25 < quaid> un bad net connection
09:25 * quaid high-5s BobJensen-Away
09:25 < quaid> excellent
09:25 < jmbuser_> Was it just me?
09:26 < quaid> jmbuser: yep
09:26 < quaid> jmbuser: we just finished with agenda item 2, held on for
09:26 < BobJensen-Away> My ride is just about here so i am going to take
09:26 < quaid> I know how your connection can be at times
09:26 < jmbuser_> quaid: Apologies for my stinking ISP
09:26 < quaid> BobJensen-Away: thanks, see you
09:26 < quaid> jmbuser_: so, let me dig up my opening question for
09:27 < quaid> jmbuser: so, lots of DUG discussion, etc. How are you
about it all?
09:27 * quaid == king of open questions
09:29 < jmbuser_> I would like to get agreement from everyone on the DUG
new name to be determined) that we should have one doc
different sections covering the default (GNOME) and
KDE and (perhaps) Xfce. There would be common topics
OpenOffice.org and Firefox.
09:29 < jmbuser_> agreed?
09:30 * jmbuser_ waits for input
09:30 * quaid +1
09:30 < quaid> but I was pretty clear abou that on list :)
09:31 < JonRob> +1
09:31 < JonRob> (but i must run...heading out to a concert)
09:31 < JonRob> have fun
09:31 -!- JonRob [n=jon(a)88-111-147-240.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has left
09:31 < jmbuser_> It will be necessary to explain what a desktop
manager) is and that GNOME is the default
09:32 < quaid> we'll find a way
09:32 < quaid> I had one question/thought ... would it help to have ...
checklist of what needs to be done in a section for it to
task-oriented v. reference-oriented
09:33 < quaid> and a list of all sections and how much of that is
09:33 < jmbuser_> Agreed
09:33 < robertjs> This initial set of apps sounds good to start. The
is Desktop windows and panels, Web browsers and office
09:33 < quaid> checklist == derived from recent reviews and discussions
09:33 < jmbuser_> Now for the name - should we keep it Desktop User
change it to something else, like Fedora New User
09:34 < robertjs> Humm...
09:35 < kiluawuyu> I think it's better to have "fedora" within the
09:35 < jmbuser_> I will prepare an outline and a checklist for people
09:35 < quaid> or ... Fedora User Guide and show "expert" sections as
09:35 < BobJensen-Away> Is the document 100% fedora specific?
09:35 < quaid> +1 to Fedora in the name, that seems solid
09:36 < quaid> BobJensen-Away: yes, in that it is only what can appear
distro (OOo, Fx, etc.)
09:36 < jmbuser_> +1 on Fedora in the name
09:36 < BobJensen-Away> Could it be used as the base for a generic linux
09:36 < robertjs> My oppinion is that Fedora User Guide is better to the
09:36 < kiluawuyu> Linux users document maybe too big
09:36 < quaid> BobJensen-Away: it could, although those exist ... but
some value in that, if we can connect across to other
09:36 < jmbuser_> Fedora User Guide (with possible Advanced sections
the future) sounds good to me
09:37 < kiluawuyu> me too~
09:37 * couf comes back
09:37 < BobJensen-Away> See my thinking is if we keep s somewhat generic
then distros based on Fedora could also make use
09:37 < quaid> jmbuser_: how about we specify e.g. three tasks to
each tool and how to do it? or some decision on tasks
09:37 < quaid> BobJensen-Away: they can rename it :)
09:37 < robertjs> jmbuser: Like some advanced settings or some basic
09:37 < quaid> well, one thing that is true ...
09:37 < jmbuser_> The challenge is to meet our immediate need for Fedora
keeping it generic enough for upstream
09:38 < quaid> we have considered that *all* of the smaller guides
09:38 < quaid> can be stitched together into one Fedora Guide
09:38 < quaid> and the DUG == new users section
09:38 < quaid> ... and that is a goal of the project
09:38 < BobJensen-Away> OK ride is now here, I I just want it to be
keeping the name "Fedora" out of the title would
good thing in generaljust for the big picture
09:40 < quaid> I don't think it's needed
09:40 < quaid> since the title can be changed by downstream
09:40 < quaid> OPL and all that
09:40 < BobJensen-Away> that is just My opinion
09:41 * jmbuser_ is considering the options
09:41 < couf> quaid: +1
09:41 < jmbuser_> I agree that Fedora should stay in the title
09:43 < jmbuser_> Three tasks: 1. Common topics (OpenOffice.org,
09:43 < jmbuser_> 2. GNOME apps presented as default apps
09:44 < jmbuser_> 3. KDE apps given as alternate apps (Konqueror, for
09:45 * jmbuser_ awaits response
09:45 < jmbuser_> Suggestion for new title: Fedora User Guide (emphasis
09:45 < jmbuser_> agreed?
09:45 < kiluawuyu> agree
09:46 < couf> hmm, I wouldn't do that: KDE users will like to see just
default kde-apps and not get confronted with: 'hey
09:46 < kiluawuyu> Fedora User Guide with Desktop user and system
09:47 < jmbuser_> couf: I like KDE apps, but historically it's been a
09:47 < couf> +1 to FUG
09:47 < couf> jmbuser_: true, but we're getting a kde spin this time,
*just* kde on it
09:47 < quaid> couf: it's more like ... KDE is not default, here is KDE
09:47 < quaid> ah
09:47 < quaid> or KDE is default :)
09:48 < quaid> ok, so neither is an alternative in the sense of "lesser"
the sense of "other"
09:48 < couf> aye
09:48 < robertjs> We can keep KDE apps without use the word
presenting it as more one free choice.
09:48 < couf> like divide each chapter into a gnome part and kde part
09:49 < jmbuser_> System Administrator Guide would be a separate doc
09:49 < kiluawuyu> what about a whole Gnome part and a KDE whole part
09:49 < robertjs> couf: It normally works!
09:50 < robertjs> couf: Tho splited sections in same chapter.
09:50 < jmbuser_> OK, most people are going to use Firefox, but
Konqueror is a
worthy alternative - how to present it is the issue
09:50 < robertjs> Two*
09:50 < couf> I'm just pointing out that we can't relay start off as:
gnome, kde is alternate
09:50 < jmbuser_> Just present and leave off the GNOME/KDE labels -
software installer will resolve all the dependencies?
09:51 < couf> hmm, see what opens by default in a kde spin, and what
in a gnome spin?
09:51 < couf> we should just state the defaults, as a beginner-oriented
09:52 < jmbuser_> That occurred to me, but do we have the time and
produce a specific version for each spin - i don't
09:52 < jmbuser_> Maybe for a future release
09:53 < couf> jmbuser_: that depends, if we can get the kde sig into the
the kde version can rock
09:53 < quaid> I think the main time sink there is the 2(Wiki) => 2(XML)
09:53 < quaid> couf: good point
09:53 < quaid> putting up the structure on the Wiki is a key first step,
structure, I think
09:54 < couf> yeah give them the tools to do it, we'll handle the rest
09:55 -!- jmbuser_ [n=jmbuser(a)184.108.40.206] has quit [Read error: 104
(Connection reset by peer)]
09:57 < quaid> oh, no, jmbuser!
09:57 < quaid> couf: do you think the KDE SIG will be more interested if
show a strong separation?
09:58 < quaid> v. "scroll down below the GNOME info and put in the KDE
09:58 < couf> I really don't know
09:58 < kiluawuyu> what about a KDE Plus section?
09:58 < couf> on the other hand, if they see all this gnome stuff
might want to do even better :)
10:00 < quaid> maybe we can use Include() to make them separate yet
10:00 < quaid> to be easier to work one
10:00 < quaid> that's one thing I like about MediaWiki, being able to
sub sections == separately
10:00 < kiluawuyu> Shall we put the regular things together and then add
words on what KDE could do?
10:00 < couf> quaid: +1
10:00 < kiluawuyu> quaid:+1
10:01 < kiluawuyu> Section:
10:01 < kiluawuyu> sub section:
10:01 < kiluawuyu> sub sectoin:
10:01 < kiluawuyu> like this?
10:01 < couf> kiluawuyu: yeah
10:02 < kiluawuyu> Agree :)
10:03 < couf> all right, maybe we should just start something else
awaiting jmbuser's return
10:03 < quaid> heh, i thought we'd end up discussing DUG all meeting
10:03 < quaid> without glezos, it's not worth discussing the GSoC and
10:04 < couf> admin guide then, robertjs that seems to be yours
10:04 < robertjs> Ok
10:04 < quaid> I should just send a GSoC update to the list
10:04 < couf> quaid: right, glezos' app got selected, right?
10:05 * couf should stop typing "right"
10:05 < quaid> right!
10:05 < quaid> and a few others for us, and some interest in people who
get their apps acceptd to work on it anyway
10:05 < robertjs> I joined docs-project intending colaborate writing
sections of the Admin Guide's sections.
10:05 < couf> quaid: great :)
10:05 < quaid> so, we'll have 3 or 4 docs/l10n focused projects this
10:06 < robertjs> As I'm Braziliam my aim is write thos stuff in English
10:06 < quaid> nman64_away: who is Jeff Sheltren?
10:06 < robertjs> Anybody here started write some section?
10:07 < couf> robertjs: yeah that guide needs some love
10:07 < robertjs> couf: It will get a lot ;)
10:07 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser(a)220.127.116.11] has joined #fedora-docs
10:07 < jmbuser> Good grief!
10:07 < couf> wb jmbuser
10:08 < couf> robertjs: I would say: dive in :)
10:08 < jmbuser> I actually was wrapping up
10:08 < robertjs> I posted a Self Presentation message on the discussion
talking about my plans. Ill need help off native
speakers to revisions about my spelling :P
10:08 * jmbuser waits turn
10:08 < quaid> robertjs: no problem
10:09 < quaid> here, let's finish FUG discussion, just to tie back in
suggested while jmbuser was gone
10:09 < robertjs> In the future i plan attack the current docs usggestin
write some new "in depth" docs about sysadmin topics.
10:09 < robertjs> Ok
10:09 < quaid> jmbuser: we thought we could get the KDE SIG more
a set of stub sections to entice them, and design it on
as Include() based to make it easier to work on
10:09 < robertjs> this is all for now.
10:10 < quaid> robertjs: sounds good
10:10 < jmbuser> quaid: Good
10:10 < jmbuser> To sum up:
10:11 < jmbuser> 1. New title: Fedora User Guide
10:11 < jmbuser> 2. New structure (using includes)
10:12 < jmbuser> 3. Common, GNOME (default), KDE (have you
10:12 < jmbuser> 4. Encourage KDE SIG to join in
10:12 < jmbuser> 5. Make F7 Deadline
10:13 < jmbuser> That's my viewpoint
10:13 * jmbuser finishes his contribution due to lousy internet
10:13 < kiluawuyu> F7 Deadline is included in FUG?
10:14 < couf> should we reconsider the topics, or go with the current
10:14 < quaid> jmbuser: for 3, note that KDE is default on the KDE spin,
want to make it clear that it's two choices, then from
10:14 < quaid> couf: a thought on that ...
10:14 < jmbuser> quaid: That can flip based on includes
10:15 < quaid> maybe we want to pick e.g. 3 to 5 tasks per topic, make
they are covered as how-to
10:15 < quaid> some things are obvious -- menu section == how to find
these menus, etc.
10:15 < quaid> but for OOo or FX ... would that help?
10:16 < couf> OOo is to big to do that
10:16 < couf> I'd just explain what each different program does, but a
detailed then now
10:17 < jmbuser> Agreed, OOo is vast and we can only explain the basics
to launch the app and point to other resources
10:17 < couf> FX is more of a: this is browser, go to google and start
10:19 < jmbuser> couf: We can mention themes and extensions for Firefox,
can't get into depth
10:20 < quaid> ok, we can deep link to some OOo docs perhaps
10:20 < quaid> ... or go into how to hook OOo up for printing?
10:20 < quaid> anyway, that's off topic for this meeting that needs to
10:20 < robertjs> Dudes, I must to go now. Later i will look the chat
on discussion list or here.
10:20 < quaid> well, yeah, we need to finish
10:20 < couf> yeah indeed
10:20 < jmbuser> +1
10:21 < quaid> </meeting>
Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project
Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProjectquaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41
Following the Pauls's sugestion, I verified the Admninistratin Guide's
and I'm happy to decided work on it. My CLA is already done and I'm
ready to be included on Edit Group.
For now my plans are to write completely the current topics and
suggest new topics in the future. The ideas will flow!!!
When the question appear in my mind, ill post here. See you at IRC.
Note: Thanks Paul for the Job Tip ;)
pub 1024D/CD343232 2007-03-15
Key fingerprint = 3DA2 61E5 5B22 58F3 23F2 6528 ABEB 0BA8 CD34 3232
uid Robert Pereira (Fedora Projects Key) <robertjs(a)gmail.com>
sub 2048g/93CC96B8 2007-03-15
I can't make the meeting tomorrow morning because I will be away from
home most of the day. If anyone needs a status update from me on
anything, I'm happy to provide it today via email, or just catch me on
IRC. I'll be around a good portion of the day, trying to catch up on
Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrieldsirc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
My name is Robert J. S. Pereira.
I'm living at Salvador city in Brazil.
I'm working as Linux Systems and Networks Administrator and Instructor
for 6 years.
My current employer is 3Consult Soluções de TI (http://www.3consult.com.br).
I wish write documentation to Fedora Core targeting systems
administrators that want use Fedora Core to deploy infrastructure
I want collaborate also to generate a set of free training stuff
Fedora Core based to able persons or organizations use it in small
courses/trainings. I think that the result can be a greater number of
users that really know Fedora Core.
Other mine desire is colaborate to produce documentation in same level
that official Red Hat Documentation.
My experience in documentation tasks started in 1999 when I wrote my
first training manual about Microsoft products. After this I produced
several Linux and Networking training manuals. In my last
documentation effort i wrote more than 240 pages to a non-official Red
Hat Enterprise Linux training sponsored by SENAI (www.cni.org.br).
Beyond write documents I'm a experienced Linux system administrator
building and deploying solutions using, SAMBA, Apache, OpenLDAP, NFS,
Sendmail, Netfilter/Iptables and several services, as well technical
Another large part of my time is occupied by teaching in official
Mandriva Linux trainings since 2002. I wish teach official Red Hat
Trainings (certification need :P ).
I have good skills in shell scripting (I think that this can be
better) that help me too much in my job and my plans include update my
scripting skills with Perl or Python.
I believe that I can use my experience in training and Linux
documentation to add value to this project and make it
pub 1024D/CD343232 2007-03-15
Key fingerprint = 3DA2 61E5 5B22 58F3 23F2 6528 ABEB 0BA8 CD34 3232
uid Robert Pereira (Fedora Projects Key) <robertjs(a)gmail.com>
sub 2048g/93CC96B8 2007-03-15
Very pleased to join the fedora-docs-list!
I am a undergraduate student of Tongji University, Shanghai, China,
majored in Computer Science.
I got good marks with my studies and was recommended to have graduate
course without tests.
I've been using Fedora Core from 1 to 6 since 2005 and I had a great
experience. It widen my eyes with its beautiful user desktop and lots
of open source software which I could modify them the way I wish! I
consider it as a high efficiency operating system in which I could
customize everything I like.
One of the most important experience I have was that I won the third
prize of National Intel Cup Embedded Competetion with the development
environment of Fedora Core 4. Qt, Kdevelopment, Gaim....These tools
really gave me excited experience. And most important of all, I
enjoyed myself very much!
Now I'm not satified with that I'm only a user. I want to be involved
as one of the fedora core developers, too. First, I need to know more
about Fedora Core, so I decide to work on the documentations first.
And I'm ready to dodge myself in it!
I hope you could accept me and help me at my startup. Thanks very much!
Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional
comments should be made in the comments box of this bug report.
Summary: docs-common should move to submodule (&docs-common)
What |Removed |Added
Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/userprefs.cgi?tab=email
------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
2007/4/13, 吴愚 <kiluawuyu(a)gmail.com>:
> *I have acquired an account for fedora account system with a username
> *I've register a wike account with a username "WuYu".
Then add yourself on page EditGroupQueue
> *I've already join the fedora-docs-list and fedora-trans-list.
> *Now I'm get on working with my selfintroduction.
> But I've tried many times to request for the cvs group(cvs10n), but no
> one replies at all...So I wonder if there's another we to remind them my
Just wait a day or two. Or try to cry alout in #fedora-docs of freenode.