docs August 2008

docs@lists.fedoraproject.org

27 participants
40 discussions

Re: Example wiki page
by Sam Chen 12 Aug '08

12 Aug '08

>>>But this page looks good to me! You might also want a link to >>>https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Editing as well. How come this wiki page starts at the second page of my IE browser? The first page is totally blank with only the side menus to the left. Shen-En Chen

2 1

FDSCo Meeting 2008-08-06 Summary
by Paul W. Frields 10 Aug '08

10 Aug '08

Attendees: ----------- Paul W. Frields (stickster) Karsten Wade (quaid) Eric Christensen (Sparks) Ian Weller (ianweller) Henrik Heigl (wonderer1) David Nalley (ke4qqq) Summary: --------- * https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks ** Worked on prioritizing these tasks ** Two lists -- one for beginners, one for veterans ACTION: DAVID -- Create new Example_wiki_page with desired elements such as section headings, cateory, etc., and email the list when ready for more people to review the draft. ACTION: KARSTEN -- Drive naming policy to a close by Tuesday, 2008-08-12, so we can proceed. ACTION: Paul -- Get FESCo help to revise package review guidelines. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

1 0

FDSCo Meeting 2008-08-06 IRC log (ERRATUM)
by Paul W. Frields 10 Aug '08

10 Aug '08

<stickster> <meeting> <stickster> Sparks will capture the log and post with a summary. <stickster> Let's talk about wiki gardening --- stickster (n=npfrield@fedora/stickster) changed topic: Fedora Documentation -- Wiki Gardening * quaid pulls in just in time <stickster> woo-hoo! <quaid> I like whatever stickster just recommended :) * Sparks would like a backup just in case <quaid> <meeting> <quaid> (to make it easier to find the start in the log) <quaid> oh, sorry! <ianweller> stickster already did that lol * quaid looks at his buffer and moves on <ianweller> now we have to close the meeting tag twice! >.> <quaid> yeah, now I messed it up <stickster> 's OK, doesn't count 'til quaid says so <stickster> It's a recursive meeting <quaid> ok, so ... <quaid> just to speak for a moment about page naming ... <quaid> well ... <quaid> I'm stuck mentally; <quaid> I see where we need to go to, but <quaid> i) don't have it clear enough to convince everyone here :) <quaid> ii) therefore don't have a clear plan to communicate widely <quaid> so, we don't need to take this meeting to work on/decide this _again_, but ... <quaid> anyone who hasn't weighed in on the discussion, please do so. <stickster> Otherwise we could talk about the big ticket gardening items, content-wise * ianweller wonders how we're going to implement the new organization schema <quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help_talk:Wiki_Structure <quaid> ianweller: yeah, we really need to get the mailing list active with that * stickster would like to see us come out of this meeting with interested people having measurable task assignments, and having them written on a task list <quaid> in that I don't think we're going to solve it in a meeting, so I don't want to use ourselves up that way <quaid> ok, so, yeah <stickster> quaid: +1 <quaid> just wanted to remind people to work on that too <stickster> yeppers * stickster steals mizmo-ism <quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks_(draft) ? * quaid cannot get that page to load, hang on <quaid> ok, there we go; and <quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks <quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks <zodbot> (at fedoraproject.org) <quaid> darnit, sorry, that was what I meant <quaid> ok, until :30 <quaid> we'll throw out any task ideas and update that list * quaid has the edit on that page <quaid> then we can spend untik :50 organizing/prioritizing. <quaid> sound OK? <stickster> cool beans <ianweller> sure * quaid reorganizes using the Tasks_(Draft) scheme <quaid> ok, open for task ideas <quaid> what does the wiki need gardened? into urls <stickster> * Reorg of packaging policy * <ianweller> ;) <abadger1999> stickster: +1 <quaid> * Renaming of end-user focused content (e.g. FedoraLive/LiveUSBHowTo) <stickster> * Moving obsolete stuff to Archive: * * ke4qqq is late <quaid> * moving meeting minutes to Meeting: <quaid> ke4qqq: no worries; we are reviewing the wiki gardening tasks, first <quaid> working on throwing out random ideas, then org. and assign them. <quaid> * reorg DocsProject as a model of how to reorg a project pages * quaid has that one there but wanted to post it :) <stickster> wow, major pruning there ;-) <stickster> * Find/prune orphans and dead links * <ianweller> * buy an ice cream cake after we're all done * <quaid> yeah, that one <stickster> yum <stickster> yum install icecreamcake <stickster> Any more? <quaid> disambiguation needs? <ianweller> steal mediawiki's templates for that? <quaid> * categorize all doc pages properly <quaid> * move all of them out of the Docs/*/ nesting <quaid> * set policy ofwhat is obsolete <quaid> N, N-1 or N, N-1, and N-2 * quaid thinks the latter, fwiw :) <ianweller> yes, the latter +1 <stickster> quaid: Yeah, there's no harm in carrying "people who are getting around to upgrading" <quaid> yep <stickster> And with Archive: we can make everything else less googlejuicy * quaid adds N+1 to that :D <quaid> stickster: b i n g o <stickster> We try never to think ahead. <quaid> ok, saving an update to that page <quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks <zodbot> (at fedoraproject.org) <quaid> seeing that list, anything else pop for anyone? <quaid> let's give this a few more minutes * quaid reorganizes the order a bit <quaid> ok, if that's it on the task ideas * quaid updates the org of that page <stickster> I think the Board asked for a +1 priority on package review guidelines. That will help FESCo drive more people to help with reviews. <quaid> ok, but page naming has to come first <quaid> right? <ianweller> agreed with both statements * wonderer1 late to SORRY <quaid> np <quaid> stickster: I mean ... they can happen in parallel, but ultimately nothing can be renamed without knowing the final page naming <stickster> quaid: Yes, parallel would be a good thing. * stickster trying not to get lost in process unless we have a definite length of tunnel, at the end of which is light <quaid> ok, so <quaid> any other thoughts on the priority there? <quaid> now, those are a mix of harder and easier tasks <stickster> 3 and 5 at the top <stickster> 8 and 10 are ongoing, very easy tasks for newbies <quaid> ah, we need to note that somewhow <quaid> should we make two categories here? <quaid> "olders and newbsters" <quaid> stickster: by "3 and 5 at the top" are you commenting on their difficulty or priority order? <stickster> quaid: Sorry, that was priority <stickster> Difficulty... I would say 7, 9, 11 are fairly tough <stickster> 8 and 10 are easier. <quaid> so, two questions: <quaid> i) should we sort by difficulty? (seems sane to me) <stickster> Is this a task list? <stickster> If so, then sort by priority. <quaid> ii) stickster, how to move 3 and 5 to the top if we already have a 1 and 2 <quaid> well, we could have two lists that sort by priority <quaid> just adjust the page nesting to have two sections <stickster> Two lists is fine -- one for vets, one for new folks <quaid> or just note the difficulty in the section * quaid works up an edit of how that looks, one second <wonderer1> to 1) i would say no. I would find it better if for difficult tasks something a "godfather" stands beside... * stickster happy someone else has an opinion to voice <stickster> I worry that the fact that very few people are speaking up is an indicator of how interested they are in these tasks. <quaid> well, we may not get assignment on them all <quaid> stickster: if people don't speak up with tasks, how do we know what interests them? <stickster> too true <quaid> I wouldn't worry too much, though; if we get an organized list first, we increase our chances across board <wonderer1> and for the "note the difficulty" I would find it as a newby hard to read HOW the note how the difficulty level should work is done... but maybe its a good idea. can we have a "demo" on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks ? <zodbot> (at fedoraproject.org) <stickster> domestic disturbance, need to go -- back in 2 min * wonderer1 get a coffee at this 2 min. <stickster> back <wonderer1> how should the "wiki gardening HowTo" page be designed or structured? <stickster> ianweller: Sparks: ke4qqq: Do any of these tasks sound like things you want to help with? * quaid is doing a demo, one more moment pls * ianweller got caught up in work and has to get it done soonish, sorry, i'll read the logs <ke4qqq> ke4qqq: moving meeting minutes to meeting: sounds easy <ke4qqq> errr talking to myself... <quaid> right, we need to work up the steps a bit <quaid> e.g., links on from pages need to be fixed, which is easy with the "What links here" page <quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks <zodbot> (at fedoraproject.org) <quaid> ok, org'd by difficulty, sorted by priority * quaid removes tertiary sections <stickster> That looks good on a tty at least :-) <quaid> quadenary! <stickster> Anyone else care to comment? <quaid> ok, so there they are, now we need to talk about assignments <ke4qqq> one quick comment * wonderer1 would go for Find and prune orphans and dead links <quaid> wonderer1: that's great; let's quickly figure out how that process looks so we can put it in the task. <ke4qqq> It'd be nice to see a definitive list of what the elements of a good page are. ie category, etc. <stickster> ke4qqq: Wow, good point. <ke4qqq> that may exist but I haven't seen it <quaid> is that part of Help:Wiki_Structure? <quaid> should that be, that is <wonderer1> quaid: take one section by another, look over the pages, see if there are dead links and such stuff, delete it or correct ist...?! <quaid> or do we need a stand-alone page for that? <stickster> Example_wiki_page <stickster> But yes. <quaid> wonderer1: right for dead links; orphaned pages are ones that nothing links to, and we need to find if there is somewhere to link it from, etc. * quaid adds the page structure task <stickster> wonderer1: There are ways that MediaWiki can give you that information, using the Special: functions <quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Special:Specialpages <stickster> wonderer1: Let's leave that for after the meeting, come over to #fedora-docs and we can all talk there <quaid> 1 <wonderer1> stickster: I know, but at this time I'm not familiar with all of that. but google is my friend I think ;-) <stickster> ke4qqq: I would say, you just volunteered to write that Example_wiki_page. ;-) <ke4qqq> I don't mind, as long as people will add what is missing <quaid> ke4qqq: of course! <ke4qqq> as I am not sure I know what all of the elements are. <stickster> ke4qqq: You betcha, just email the list to let us know you're ready for more carpenteres. <quaid> just a catalystis needed, as usual <stickster> *carpenters <quaid> wonderer1: what is your FAS user name? <wonderer1> wonderer <quaid> :D * stickster notes we're at closing -2 minutes <wonderer1> without the "1" :-) <stickster> What about other task assignments? <quaid> I've got the page naming <stickster> quaid: If you want to drive the naming policy to a close for next week <stickster> ha, jinx <stickster> I'll see what I can do to start changing the package review guidelines stuff <quaid> hmm <stickster> probably in line with http://tinyurl.com/55ay2f <quaid> I wonder if there is a packager who wants to help? <stickster> Sure would be nice <stickster> Maybe I can get someone on FESCo to help with it ;-) * stickster sees the clock may have run out of sand <stickster> Is someone in this channel directly following us? <Sparks> stickster: Usually there is a meeting right after us <stickster> Sparks: You're alive! <stickster> ;-) <quaid> whoops, time to wrap up <quaid> yep, FAMSco or somebody :) <quaid> anything else, we can talk in #fedora-docs <fugolini> take you time :) <stickster> fugolini: Nope, we're out of here, it's all yours! <fugolini> feel free to finish <quaid> </meeting> <quaid> </meeting> -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

1 0

FDSCo Meeting 2008-08-06 IRC log
by Karsten Wade 10 Aug '08

10 Aug '08

HTML version: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Docs_IRC_log_20080806 Check out the new Meeting: namespace! ;-D 12:05 < quaid> <meeting> 12:05 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Docs - roll call, greets 12:05 * quaid is here :) 12:05 * ianweller 12:06 * jsmith is here 12:06 * Sparks here 12:06 -!- abadger19991 [n=abadger1(a)65.78.187.8] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:06 < quaid> agenda is https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Agend… 12:06 -!- abadger1999 [n=abadger1(a)65.78.187.8] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:06 < G> I'm here :) 12:06 * ke4qqq is here 12:07 -!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr@fedora/JSchmitt] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 12:07 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Docs - Wiki namespaces discussion 12:07 < stickster> quaid: I just added something to that agenda 12:07 < quaid> ok 12:07 < quaid> http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-July/msg00092.html 12:07 < quaid> that is the RFC currently under discussion 12:08 < G> quaid: might be something to pull out my original e-mail to docs/websites too 12:08 * ianweller wonders whether we should say "Documentation Project" or "Docs Project" now that we're moving to spaces/full names 12:08 -!- abadger1999 [n=abadger1(a)65.78.187.8] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:08 -!- rvokal [n=radek(a)ip-89-102-32-70.karneval.cz] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:09 < G> quaid: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-July/msg00015.html - the original namespace discussion 12:09 * quaid was replying onlist too 12:09 < quaid> ianweller: people say Docs, like it or not, so I gave up on that a bit ago; but worth standardizing, yes :) 12:10 * ianweller wonders how google-friendly that is 12:10 < quaid> G: yes, but that is a bit farther down in the agenda 12:10 -!- mether [n=sundaram@nat/redhat-in/x-6f9c178ba5415a81] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:10 < G> quaid: errr the 'namespaces' got me, oop :0 12:10 < quaid> ianweller: hard to say; techie people seem to always use 'docs' but documenters prefer 'documentation' 12:11 < quaid> G: yep, sorry :) 12:11 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Docs - wiki page naming discussion 12:11 < quaid> that's what I meant :) 12:11 * ianweller googles for "fedora documentation" and sees if he gets DocsProject. 12:11 < quaid> ok, so are there any questions about the RFC? 12:12 < ianweller> we know why, and we know where to move things. how to do it though? 12:12 < quaid> one thing before that 12:13 < quaid> is everyone comfortable with Docs making this decision and putting it forward as done to the contributor community? 12:13 < Sparks> +1 12:13 < quaid> v. sending an RFC to f-devel-l :D 12:13 < ianweller> no. we have an RFC, we need a policy that contributors can follow, i think 12:13 < G> quaid: I disagree with mass transclusion btw 12:13 < G> (of content pages) 12:13 < ke4qqq> quaid: +1 12:13 < ianweller> i don't think what we have now is in policy state 12:13 < quaid> G: you mean, my idea of building a guide is mass transclusion? 12:13 < quaid> ianweller: right, but ... 12:14 < ianweller> and, to the new user, i think it's a bit confusing 12:14 < quaid> the biggest point of contention is going to be the stupid naming 12:14 < quaid> +1 that it is *not* a policy 12:14 < G> quaid: correct 12:14 < quaid> and needs sto be 12:14 < ianweller> that's a good "ok here's how we're *moving* it" page, but we need something that says "this is how the wiki is organized, deal with it" 12:14 < ianweller> yeah 12:14 < quaid> G: is it that much of a performance hit difference? 12:15 < quaid> I thought each section was separate in the db anyway 12:15 < quaid> ianweller: but are you comfortable with us making all that policy and not taking argument about it? 12:15 < ianweller> yes. 12:16 < quaid> I mean, the Packaging Committee has a process to get changes approved; this would be like that, don't just bitch on a mailing list but bring a real proposal. 12:16 < quaid> stickster: how about you? 12:16 < G> quaid: I think the difference is, it can pull an entire page in one query, where as for transclusions it had to keep making queries 12:16 < quaid> G: ok 12:16 < stickster> Sorry, there is a conversation going on here that I am trying to shut out so I can catch up here 12:16 < G> I may be wrong, I havn't had my morning coffee and I'm just running off memory :) 12:17 < quaid> g: it might have been a mis-guided solution to a non-problem; definitely we should set a policy on that, maybe a limit on the # of sections to transclude? 12:17 < quaid> G: ouch, sorry, it _is_ early there 12:17 -!- dwmw2 is now known as dwmw2_gone 12:17 < stickster> quaid: OK, the RFC is to use "real languge" for page titles, and categories to organize pages ? 12:18 < G> quaid: I think the proper solution would be to say: split the document in three bits or so (to avoid it getting too large) 12:18 < ianweller> G: split the document in, say, 20KB bits, so that it's unlikely for pages to go over 32KB? 12:18 < G> "General Policies", "RPM Issues", "Technical Policies" type thing 12:19 < quaid> stickster: ok, here's the question I asked you: 12:19 * ianweller still doesn't know what sort of performance hit transcluding lots of pages takes, and wonders if #mediawiki knows 12:19 < G> ianweller: I dont consider the 32KB rule as a general policy 12:19 * stickster apologizes, too many concurrent inputs :-) 12:19 < quaid> "Are we OK with Docs making the policy for wiki structure, including naming, and pushing it forward as "done until you formally help change it"?" 12:19 < G> the 32KB warning comes from some browsers not been able to cope with it iirc 12:19 < ianweller> G: well, right. so in my mind, anything larger than 32KB is right out 12:20 < quaid> ianweller: but you said Packaging_Guidelines needs to be one page :) 12:20 < G> ianweller: I don't know of any browsers these days that have such a problem 12:20 < stickster> quaid: +1 on that. 12:20 < quaid> stickster: ok! :) 12:20 < stickster> quaid: The day belongs to those who seize it. 12:20 * ianweller is a hypocrite again, damn! 12:20 < quaid> carpe seizem 12:20 * ianweller goes to get more tea 12:20 < quaid> ok, then 12:20 < quaid> just to recap: 12:20 < stickster> ianweller wants to eat his cake and have it too :-D 12:20 < quaid> * we agree we are empowered to do this 12:20 < G> quaid: I disagree with transcluding it, I'd favour logical splitting :) 12:21 * ianweller goes back through his head and rehashes out what he wants 12:21 < quaid> * we need to convert the Help:Wiki_structure to a policy page 12:21 < stickster> G: I think you can really do both at will. 12:21 < stickster> It's kind of a red herring issue. 12:22 < G> (It's currently 52KB so a split in two - General Packaging Guidelines, Technical Packaging Guidelines 12:22 < quaid> ok, that's later in the agnedna :) 12:22 < quaid> let's finish with page naming 12:23 < quaid> Ian's point on list about not splitting the P_G too small is noted/OK 12:23 -!- abadger19991 [n=abadger1(a)65.78.187.8] has quit [No route to host] 12:23 < ianweller> right now we already split P_G into different sections for specific languages, btw 12:23 < quaid> so, on naming 12:24 < quaid> an no Sub/Pages 12:24 < quaid> all happy with that? 12:24 < quaid> I think we need a bit of list discussion, too, fwiw 12:24 < G> I disagree 12:24 < G> I have a technical arguement too that I just remembered 12:24 < ianweller> is the no Sub/Pages a soft limit, meaning we still have Artwork/Join? 12:24 < ianweller> G: mm? 12:24 < quaid> ianweller: not a soft limit IMO 12:25 -!- dstimson [n=dale(a)68-185-24-58.static.mdfd.or.charter.com] has left #fedora-meeting ["Leaving"] 12:25 < ianweller> quaid: same here. /me wants no slashes ;) 12:25 < ianweller> except in non-main namespaces 12:25 < G> Legal have asked us, to make sure Legal/* is read only to everyone but people in the Legal group, Packaging/* is read only to people except in Packaging group, we can't just shut them out 12:25 < quaid> I want to see one or another method, and tightly enforced 12:25 < quaid> G: how do ACLs work? 12:25 < G> I proposed separte namespaces from them at inception but was told "ewww thats ugly" 12:25 -!- Sonar_Guy [n=Who_Know@fedora/sonarguy] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:25 < G> *for them 12:26 < ianweller> G: can we ACL by category? 12:26 * ianweller presumes not 12:26 < G> quaid: Packaging/* 12:26 -!- abadger1999 [n=abadger1(a)65.78.187.8] has quit [No route to host] 12:26 < quaid> G: what about Packaging* 12:26 < quaid> and Legal* 12:26 < G> ianweller: nope, MW doesn't allow that type of call 12:26 < quaid> without the / 12:26 < ianweller> quaid: but then we might run into other issues. 12:26 < G> quaid: I wouldn't be sure, but I'd feel that was an ugly solution 12:26 < quaid> well, sure, if someone wants to write "Legally_thinking_about_open_source" they cannot 12:27 < ianweller> i *personally* think that namespaces could/should/must be used 12:27 < ianweller> for cases such as these 12:27 < quaid> ianweller: you mean 12:27 < quaid> Namespace:s 12:27 < quaid> not Name/Space 12:27 < ianweller> quaid: yes. 12:27 -!- spstarr_work [n=spstarr(a)192.219.104.10] has left #fedora-meeting ["Ex-Chat"] 12:27 < ianweller> i am not sure how people decided that Name/Space meant namespace :/ 12:27 < ianweller> (no offense to anyone) 12:28 < quaid> ianweller: ha! 12:28 < G> and you've got to consider that "Packaging:Foo" is going to have the exact same effect as "Packaging/Foo" 12:28 < quaid> ianweller: um, we had that term in general usebefore Mediawiki was born :) 12:28 < ianweller> quaid: oh ok. 12:28 < quaid> G: 'effect'? 12:28 < Sparks> In MW... What's the difference between Docs/Page and Docs:Page? 12:28 < quaid> Sparks: search is in specific namespaces 12:28 < ianweller> Sparks: you can decide to include/exclude certain Namespace:s in search. 12:28 < G> quaid: yuckyness in Category sorts etc iirc 12:28 < quaid> Sparks: we can reset the default, but that doesn't change it for existing users 12:29 < ianweller> G: can't you fix that? 12:29 < ianweller> potentially with wikibot? 12:29 < ke4qqq> quaid: yes but you can change default search 12:29 < quaid> ke4qqq: not for existing users aiui 12:29 < G> quaid: we can change it for existing users 12:29 < quaid> we _are_ going to change it, one time we hope 12:29 < quaid> G: oh, ok 12:29 < G> quaid: I said that during one of the other discussions 12:29 -!- bpepple|lt [n=bpepple|(a)rrcs-70-62-4-107.central.biz.rr.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:29 < quaid> G: thx, I forgot 12:29 < G> quaid: but I'd perfer to hold off on that until we get the l10n wikis sorted 12:30 < quaid> here's my thinking then ... 12:30 < quaid> on ACLs 12:30 < quaid> if Legal needs a protected space, move it off the wiki 12:30 < ianweller> quaid: we tried pushing that to them at the beginning too 12:30 < quaid> if Packaging needs a guide that cannot be edited by the masses, move it off the wiki 12:30 < ianweller> since wikis are not made for ACLs. 12:30 < Sparks> quaid: If you start moving people off the wiki then how will anyone know where to look for inforamtion? 12:30 < quaid> Sparks: the wiki is not the sole source of info 12:30 < ianweller> but they certainly did not like that. at all. 12:31 < G> quaid: that in my opinion isn't a good solution 12:31 < quaid> Sparks: docs.fp.o/release-notes for example 12:31 < quaid> ianweller, G why? 12:31 < quaid> oh, they want the ease of a wiki but not have it be a wiki? 12:31 < quaid> get a CMS, I say 12:31 < Sparks> quaid: Yeah, which is one reason why I think people have ahard time finding information 12:31 < ianweller> yes. 12:31 < ianweller> quaid: hehe 12:31 < ianweller> of course! 12:31 < quaid> Sparks: the wiki needs to link to the rest of the world, too' we cannot put all in the wiki, it sucks too much for content management 12:32 < G> quaid: that sort of stuff changes frequently and a wiki is a good way to display such information 12:32 < quaid> G: it actually doesn't change that frequently 12:32 < ianweller> (should we get some people who work on Legal/* and Packaging/* stuff's input?) 12:32 < G> quaid: parts of the Packaging/* area have a bit of turnover I've seen 12:33 * ianweller just had the idea of shoving the packaging guidelines into docbook, in a repo on fedorahosted 12:33 * ianweller notes that that idea is *not* going to be popular 12:33 < quaid> G: if they are active, why cannot they watch the pages like the rest of us do? 12:33 < quaid> ianweller: if they need ACLs, maybe that is the best thing 12:33 < quaid> here 12:33 < ianweller> quaid: i think so. 12:33 < quaid> here's what I'm getting at: 12:33 -!- AndreasR [n=medic(a)ext-32-32.mobile.unibas.ch] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:33 < quaid> we CANNOT make our naming decisions based on these corner cases 12:33 < quaid> that are leftover from previous bad decisions 12:33 < quaid> in the previous wiki. 12:34 < quaid> we CAN make an exception 12:34 < ianweller> agreed. 12:34 < quaid> and allow Legal/ and Packaging/ 12:34 < G> I think thats what we need to do really 12:34 < ianweller> (but only for now, imho) 12:34 < quaid> but, G, really, is it worth carrying on that travesty for all pages? 12:34 < G> for now anyway 12:34 < G> quaid: How about this: 12:34 < ianweller> there's a better solution, and we can decide on that with the respective name/space owners later 12:34 < G> * Allow Legal/ Packaging/ as exceptions for now 12:35 < G> * Approve Legal: Packaging: if they want it (but say it's an equally ugly solution) and recommend they incorporate stuff into the websites or documentation 12:35 < ianweller> +1 12:36 < quaid> +1, with the caveat that we can go get spot's input before entirely granting the exception 12:36 < quaid> (since spot is the dude leading both of those sections) 12:36 < ianweller> yes. 12:36 < G> * When the l10n wikis are put in, then change everyones default search to add those namespaces 12:36 < G> (and add the namespace then) 12:37 < ianweller> G: we need to i18n namespaces too, right? 12:37 < quaid> ianweller: it's just l10n, aiui 12:37 < G> no 12:37 < quaid> we use i18n to l10n the pages 12:37 < ianweller> well 12:38 < ianweller> what i mean is 12:38 < ianweller> change the name of the namespace into whatever it is for the respective language 12:38 < ianweller> just keep the same ID numbers in the database at the very least 12:38 < G> for most cases thats done, and it'd be a requirement of the l10n teams to do such a task before the wiki is created 12:38 < ianweller> excellent 12:39 < G> I've already discussed quite a bit of the implementation stuff like this with couf 12:39 < quaid> cool 12:39 < quaid> any more on this naming? 12:40 < quaid> do we think we have consensus here? 12:40 < ianweller> i think we're good. 12:40 < G> quaid: yeah, but we really need to look into the Legal/ Packaging/ stuff a bit more 12:40 < quaid> G: I know you mentally prefer Sub/Page, and I do think many people agree, but the l10n need in the end was a big persuader for me 12:40 < ianweller> then again, it's just the three (four?) of us talking about it, from what i can tell 12:41 < quaid> i.e., Artwork/Join has impedence mismatch with what that page actually is, Join_the_Art_project 12:41 < quaid> ianweller: carpe diem, etc. 12:41 < G> quaid: FreeDistribution is another one that uses ACLs on their subpage 12:41 * ianweller yawns 12:41 < ianweller> ;) 12:41 < G> quaid: it's a case of, I think in most cases subpages look nicer 12:41 < ianweller> G: so should we change your proposal from Legal/* and Packaging/* to whatever happens to be in the HNP ACL at the moment? 12:42 < quaid> wtf is FreeDistribution? 12:42 < G> quaid: the Free CDs folks 12:42 < G> they ACL a couple of the pages 12:42 < quaid> I'd want to go to each group and find out why they need ACLs 12:43 < quaid> well, a couple can be just done manually, right? 12:43 < G> even Infrastructure have ACL'd pages 12:43 < quaid> the exception is where an entire set of content needs ACLs 12:43 -!- alexxed [n=alex@conference/mozilla-summit/x-2b2f748cd8cfed4d] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:43 < G> quaid: correct 12:43 * G would really like to do away with HNP tbh, it's ugly 12:44 * ianweller would like to do away with any extensions we don't actually need (i.e., HNP) ;) 12:44 < G> it's an ugly solution to do something that mediawiki isn't designed for 12:45 < G> quaid: just sent you a /notice, don't know if you'll be able to read it, but if you can it's a list of the current ACLs 12:46 < G> ohhh forgot Licensing too, thats a big chunk 12:47 -!- mether [n=sundaram@nat/redhat-in/x-6f9c178ba5415a81] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:47 -!- paragn [n=paragn@fedora/paragn] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:47 < quaid> yeah, a few Foo/ exceptions is OK 12:48 < ianweller> with the mention that they shouldn't be exceptions, imho. 12:48 < quaid> mainly what I want is the general, open, edit-me content for contributors and users is a flat namespace, easy to know what to name, lots of categories 12:48 < quaid> oh, yeah! 12:48 < quaid> how about we create a bunch of stub category pages? 12:48 -!- paragn [n=paragn@fedora/paragn] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:48 < quaid> Category:Bug_Triage for example 12:48 -!- mether [n=sundaram(a)59.160.127.177] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:48 < ianweller> so, Category:Bug_triaging_stubs? 12:48 < quaid> i.e., at least one for each ProjectName/ we are replacing with the renaming 12:49 < quaid> and advertise that as the category to use instead of the old SubPage/Style 12:49 < G> quaid: in some cases they already have a similar category, it'd be best to send wikibot over them - like I did for the Docs pages and rename them 12:49 < ianweller> i'm not sure if this is relevant right now but how nim-nim has been doing things for fonts is that he's been using the Category: page as the main page for his SIG 12:49 < quaid> G: right, let's do all that 12:49 * quaid adds that to the wiki gardening tasks 12:50 < ianweller> which i recommend against using Category:s as starting points. 12:50 < G> ianweller: that imo isn't using the category page for what it's designed to do 12:50 < ianweller> G: yeah 12:51 < quaid> hmm 12:51 -!- LyosNorezel [n=LyosNore@unaffiliated/lyosnorezel] has left #fedora-meeting [] 12:51 < quaid> makes it easy, though :) 12:52 < ianweller> it does, but it's not what we want, i think. 12:52 < ianweller> some projects will want to do that, most won't 12:52 < ianweller> and we need to standardize it 12:52 < quaid> we can recommend against it? or make a rule, not sure 12:52 * ianweller would make it a strong recommendation against. 12:52 < ianweller> if not a rule 12:53 < ianweller> i'd say that's up to you guys to decide 12:53 < quaid> ok, so ... 12:53 < G> agreed, 12:53 < quaid> I think we've covered the top item on the agenda 12:53 < ianweller> in a record time of 53 minutes! :=o 12:53 < ianweller> :-o* 12:54 < ianweller> ;) 12:54 < ianweller> is someone logging/noting what we decided? 12:54 < quaid> ianweller: I like the idea of using the MW style guide as a basis, then noting the variations 12:54 < quaid> similar to what we do with GNOME Docs style guide, etc. 12:54 < quaid> ianweller: I'll take the summary task today :) 12:54 < stickster> heh 12:54 < ianweller> excellent 12:54 < stickster> quaid: Thanks 12:54 < ianweller> imho, people should be familiar with the wikipedia page naming guidelines *first* and then read our specifications 12:55 < ianweller> or, we can take wikipedia's and adapt them appropriately 12:56 < ianweller> quaid: iirc the next item on the agenda was namespace:s? or did we kinda sorta cover that 12:56 * ianweller was thinking maybe we should decide what should be the initial namespaces 12:56 < quaid> ianweller: yeah, we jumped over that, sorry 12:56 < quaid> but I think we can decide that 12:56 < ianweller> heh 12:56 * ianweller notes that Features: would be an important one 12:56 < quaid> hmmm 12:56 < quaid> I wonder if we have a bigger discussion here?> 12:56 < ianweller> we kinda do. 12:56 < quaid> should we worry about a proliferation of namespaces? 12:57 < ianweller> i think we should only approve namespaces if the content will not be considered documenation for end users or contributors 12:57 < G> quaid: It could potentially get too big 12:57 < ianweller> but otherwise, we need a hard rule one way or the other 12:57 < quaid> ianweller: yeah, that was my thinking in general 12:57 < G> ianweller: in that case feature pages fit into that rule 12:57 < ianweller> G: yes, they do 12:58 < ianweller> but, then so do theme proposals from the artwork team. 12:58 < quaid> so, no Features: namespace? 12:58 < G> err I mean, they fit into "documentation for end users or contributors" 12:58 < quaid> G: +1 12:58 < ianweller> how do they do that? i see them more as FESCo organization in my mind 12:58 < quaid> contributors work on them 12:59 < quaid> marketers use them to write from 12:59 < quaid> people read them to know what is coming 12:59 < quaid> etc. 12:59 < G> exactly 12:59 < ianweller> so we're going to just use the concept of putting 'feature' somewhere in the title and categorizing it appropriately as it is now? 13:00 < ianweller> like "Better webcam support feature for F10" 13:00 < ianweller> maybe even s/feature // 13:00 < G> well thats the way the rest of the policy is going, so yes 13:00 < ianweller> ok. 13:00 < quaid> ianweller: John maintains a set of categories 13:00 < ianweller> quaid: i know 13:00 < quaid> that is where to find the list ultimately, not by name 13:00 < ianweller> Category:FeatureF10Proposed or something like that 13:00 -!- abadger1999 [n=abadger1(a)136.245.7.181] has joined #fedora-meeting 13:00 < quaid> we're out of time 13:01 < ianweller> ack 13:01 < G> quaid: so do you want me to add the Meeting: namespace now? 13:01 < quaid> namespaces discussion -- to the list! 13:01 < ianweller> right-o. 13:01 < jsmith> +1 13:01 < ianweller> who should turn Help:Wiki organization (or whatever it was, i don't remember) into a policy? 13:01 < quaid> G: I'll reply to you on list giving people One Last Chance to argue, then we'll do it, sound OK? 13:01 * ianweller could, unless someone else wants to 13:01 < quaid> the last item 13:01 < G> quaid: good idea 13:01 < quaid> that we need to make up a skeleton release announcement 13:02 < quaid> anyone here interested in that task? or push request to the list? 13:02 < ianweller> what do you mean 13:02 < ianweller> "skeleton release announcement" 13:02 < quaid> sorry, for Alpha 13:02 < ianweller> oh ok. 13:02 < quaid> request from releng, basically 13:02 < quaid> I'll own that for now, see if I can find another doer :) 13:03 < quaid> all right, closing and getting out of the channel's way 13:03 < ianweller> ok someone's waiting for us to finish so /me moves to end meeting 13:03 < ianweller> yeah. 13:03 < quaid> </meeting>

2 1

Self-Introduction: Jonas Björklund
by Jonjo Björklund 09 Aug '08

09 Aug '08

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hello everyone, My name is Jonas Björklund. I live in Munich, Germany and I'm currently a high school student in year 10. I go to a German high school called Heinrich-Heine-Gymnasium. My personal goal in the Fedora project is to demonstrate the world what Fedora is capable of, and that there is a world beyond Suse or even Windows. I want to write about the ease-of-use of many Fedora applications and how easy it can be to setup a performant web server with Fedora. I'd love to contribute as good as I can to existing docs as well. Since I'm still in high school, I don't have many qalifications, although I have been on exchange to Australia for 6 months, which hopefully helped my English. This is the first time I'm joining an open-source project, although I have been using and promoting open-source for quite a while. I myself would describe my skills as advanced user with a bit of experience in shell-programming(bash) and PHP. I think I'll be able to explain the basics of Fedora to beginners, trying to make Fedora an OS beginners like to work on as well. My GPG KEYID is 50A6907B and my fingerprint is: 6FFB 63B2 B126 C535 2A39 47BE 88A1 81C5 50A6 907B Best regards, Jonas Björklund -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: http://getfiregpg.org iD8DBQFInYVuiKGBxVCmkHsRAqweAJ0allgfy1UDN5NKcMEj4g2IZEMwuwCglPq7 u9dyYqmP/ny2M9HQ330He/I= =S+ET -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

1 0

Long Needed Introduction
by Nigel Jones 08 Aug '08

08 Aug '08

I just realised that I've never formally introduced myself. So here goes, I'm Nigel Jones, a proud New Zealander that has been meaning to do a little bit of documentation work for AGES. I've recently done 6 months teaching IT to domestic and international students, and really documentation is the best way to help students. I'm quite technically competent (I passed RHCT with 100%) so I'm definitely eyeing up getting the Administration guide out the door. Recently I'm known for my work on the wiki and helping people with Mediawiki syntax (who've thunk it?). Anything else, just ask (feel free to prove to Murray that I'm not famous)... - Nigel

3 2

Meeting Log 2008-08-07
by David Nalley 08 Aug '08

08 Aug '08

Summary to follow [15:04] <stickster> <meeting> [15:04] <stickster> Roll call! [15:04] <ke4qqq> DavidNalley [15:05] * ianweller [15:05] <stickster> Is mizmo around? [15:05] <mizmo> hiii [15:05] <stickster> eeeeeeggscellent. [15:06] <stickster> And I'm Paul Frields. [15:06] <ianweller> :-o [15:06] <stickster> You might remember me from such hit shows as, "Bosom Buddies." [15:06] * rharrison accounts for himself [15:06] <stickster> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Tasks [15:06] <stickster> There's our task list. [15:07] <mizmo> im mizmo. u might remember me as the girl in the funny hat in the video on redhatmagazine.com right now :-p [15:07] <stickster> mizmo: baby ur a star [15:07] <kushal> KushalDas [15:07] <stickster> (That was my Prince voice, but you couldn't hear it from there.) [15:07] <mizmo> lol [15:07] <stickster> OK. Unless someone has an objection, [15:07] <stickster> I'm going to start down the priority 1 items on the task list. [15:07] <kushal> stickster, thank you a lot for the nice microphone [15:08] <stickster> kushal: You're welcome. :-) [15:08] <stickster> kushal: Now go out and produce thee some videos! :-) [15:08] <kushal> stickster, working on them :) [15:08] <stickster> OK, I see that task #1 on our list is the 4 foundations posts. [15:08] <stickster> ke4qqq: I think you did a second one already, yes? [15:08] <ke4qqq> yes [15:09] <stickster> ke4qqq: slap that URL in here, I'll capture it to the page too. [15:09] <ke4qqq> next will be done by tomorrow [15:09] <ke4qqq> http://www.nalley.sc/david/?p=59 [15:10] <stickster> Awesome. That's "Features"? [15:10] <ke4qqq> yes, Features is next - rough draft already done, just needs to be cleaned up a bit [15:10] <stickster> ke4qqq: Let me know if you need any supplementary info -- since poelcat and I work on that pretty much daily or so. [15:10] <ke4qqq> k [15:11] <stickster> Well, that's well underway, so on to the next item, unless there are objections or questions about the 4 Foundations [15:11] <stickster> OK. [15:11] <ria> Ria Das [15:11] <stickster> Hi Ria, thanks for coming. [15:11] <stickster> mizmo: The next item is one that we discussed a bit in Artwork [15:11] <ria> :) [15:11] <mizmo> posterz!!11 [15:11] <ianweller> nowai [15:12] <stickster> There had been some brainstorming, and it included... STEAMBOATZ! [15:12] <mizmo> yeh [15:12] <ianweller> steamboatz????// [15:12] <mizmo> i think the consensus was that we want a more graphic and less photo feel [15:12] <mizmo> so i gotta get offs my duff and graphic-ify [15:12] <stickster> What was really interesting to me was that you guys came up with some killer ideas for how to tie the boats into each of the foundations [15:13] <stickster> With Freedom, it was just the idea of boating down the river, unfettered [15:13] <stickster> (or ocean) [15:13] <ianweller> a giant boat sitting on a earth thing [15:13] <stickster> This struck a deep chord with me because I *just* got done reading "Huck Finn" with my daughter. [15:13] <stickster> ianweller: Failboat? [15:13] <ianweller> heh [15:14] <stickster> The freedom of Huck and Jim rafting down the river was a big theme in that novel. [15:14] <stickster> So anyhow... [15:14] <stickster> Friends was the crew all having a beer on deck, or pulling oars together, or something to that effect [15:14] <stickster> Features was the awesomeness of the engine room [15:14] <stickster> And Future was landing on the destination island, for example. [15:15] * stickster shuts up and lets mizmo pontificate now [15:15] <mizmo> well [15:15] <stickster> oops, one other thing: some of those ideas may have been mine, so if they suck, blame me. [15:15] <mizmo> i think the status is just that we gotta do it [15:15] <mizmo> which was the status last week [15:15] <stickster> :-D [15:15] <mizmo> except this week we gots a rough mock for one [15:15] <mizmo> :) [15:16] <stickster> mizmo: If you or some other intrepid artiste can establish a "look" for one, the others might be easier to fall into place from other helpers [15:17] <mizmo> yep i hope os! [15:17] <mizmo> s/os/so [15:17] <stickster> superb [15:17] --> tw2113 has joined this channel (n=tw2113(a)host-17-36-107-208-static.midco.net) [15:18] <stickster> Is JonRob around? [15:18] <stickster> I think not. [15:18] [Error] JonRob: No such nick/channel. [15:18] <ianweller> i also think not [15:18] <stickster> Great minds think alike, apparently, since he ain't here. [15:18] <stickster> OK then. [15:19] <stickster> *skritch skritch skratch* [15:19] <tw2113> meeting isn't it? [15:19] <stickster> If mether were around, he could tell us whether JonRob talked to him. [15:19] <stickster> tw2113: Yes, welcome! [15:19] <mether> stickster: whats the discussion about [15:19] <tw2113> split shift today so i get to come in late and possibly make the rest of it [15:20] <stickster> mether: Did JonRob talk to you about reusability of the Release Notes Overview in the Release Summary? [15:20] <stickster> That was his banner to take up. [15:20] <mether> nope [15:20] <stickster> OK. [15:20] <mether> not offlist atleast [15:21] <stickster> We'll just have to give that a miss this time, then. He had a sort of master plan in mind and I don't really know what it entailed. [15:21] <stickster> ke4qqq: If you could CC JonRob on the summary, and include that bit for his benefit, it would be a big help [15:21] <stickster> Thanks! [15:22] <stickster> Oops, gotta call mizmo on the carpet yet again then. [15:22] <stickster> OMZG STICKERZ!!!!!1!!! [15:22] <mizmo> stickster, OMGZ!!!11 [15:22] <mizmo> stickster, yeh so ive been a bad girl here [15:22] <mizmo> stickster, um gdk met someone at oscon who does stickers and who is also a fedora fan [15:23] <mizmo> i emailed him last week for quotes, he said he'd look into it but hasn't gotten back to me yet so ill send him a reminder today [15:23] <tw2113> zomg [15:23] <tw2113> :D [15:23] <stickster> OK, fair enough. I hadn't seen the new, better-for-diecutting version yet [15:23] <stickster> *very* nice! [15:23] <ianweller> only nitpicky thing i say: why are there colons after "write your own"? [15:24] *** adrianalves is now known as adrianalves|away. [15:24] <stickster> ianweller: Better digestion? [15:24] * ianweller sticks one of the blank stickers on stickster's forehead and writes "better digestion" in the bubble [15:25] <kushal> :) [15:25] <ianweller> :P [15:25] <ianweller> but seriousl. [15:25] <ianweller> seriously* [15:25] <stickster> Looks like an easy enough fix in inkscape [15:25] <-- mthompson has left this server ("l8r"). [15:27] <stickster> OK, without JonRob that's really the end of the priority 1 tasks. [15:27] <stickster> tw2113: Since you're here, want to talk about the first task on the priority 2 list? [15:27] <tw2113> ack, not sure what it is [15:27] <kushal> stickster, I have few input for Fedora TV [15:27] <tw2113> link plz [15:27] <kushal> tw2113, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Tasks [15:27] <stickster> tw2113: See the task list --> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Tasks#Active_.28Assigned.29_Tasks [15:28] <stickster> Oh, thanks kushal :-) [15:28] <kushal> :) [15:28] <stickster> kushal: In the meantime, yes, please talk about Fedora TV. [15:28] <mizmo> write your own: [15:28] <mizmo> i dont see anything wrong with that? [15:28] <mizmo> its indicating, below is where u write your own no? [15:28] <kushal> I am out of ideas for screencasts [15:28] <ianweller> mizmo: it might be firefox's rendering. i see "write your own:" *under* the sticker [15:29] <kushal> the one in wiki page, i don't know them properly so can not work on them [15:29] <mizmo> ianweller, oh weird [15:29] <tw2113> i must chime in that i've been a bad boy and haven't touched the topic in a long time [15:29] <stickster> ianweller: No, it's there in the source afaict [15:29] <stickster> mizmo: I just moved them up, I can send you the SVG. [15:29] <mizmo> ianweller, yeh firefox might be funkifying the vertical alignment if u are looking at the svg [15:29] <mizmo> or maybe i screwed it up! not sure [15:29] <kushal> today created few on python, how to copy files to fedorapeople.org account [15:29] <ianweller> mizmo: if it's above the sticker then it's cool. [15:29] <mizmo> yeh i was thinking they were above [15:29] <mizmo> i agree if they below we should take : out [15:29] <mizmo> or move them up [15:29] <ianweller> ok. [15:30] <tw2113> if we need to push the istanbul video topic more, it might be best to give it to someone else. I'm just dropping the ball here [15:30] <kushal> So, I need to application list people want to see in the videos or workflow [15:30] <kushal> like how to create a patch may be [15:30] <stickster> tw2113: Is it a lack of time thing, or a lack of interest thing? [15:30] <tw2113> a bit of both [15:31] <kushal> I also started a series on PyQt4 programming [15:31] <tw2113> i'm juggling my fair amount of balls over here plus a bit of lack of interest [15:31] <kushal> tw2113, do you have ideas ? [15:31] <stickster> kushal: Do you think you might be working toward an overall "How to Maintain a Package" video set? [15:31] <tw2113> no i don't sadly [15:32] <kushal> stickster, ok, next task in pool :) [15:32] <kushal> tw2113, ok [15:32] <stickster> kushal: That was more of a question :-) [15:32] <kushal> stickster, like for Fedora packaging ? [15:32] <stickster> kushal: Is that your goal? [15:32] <kushal> stickster, oh, :p [15:32] <kushal> stickster, goal ,means ? [15:32] <kushal> for what ? [15:32] <stickster> kushal: Something you're trying to achieve with your videos [15:33] <kushal> stickster, I goal is simple .... [15:33] <kushal> people do not get chance to meet people in real life to learn from them, only option is irc and RTFM [15:33] <stickster> kushal: Oh yes, I understand why we create the videos :-) [15:33] <kushal> if they can see on videos how to do things, it becomes very easy [15:33] <stickster> kushal: I didn't do a very good job of explaining myself. [15:34] <stickster> kushal: Let me try again :-) [15:34] <kushal> ok [15:34] <stickster> I was thinking that, since you're creating lots of videos, and they seem to be about some development topics... [15:34] <stickster> ...and... [15:34] <stickster> ...because you maintain some packages... [15:34] <stickster> ...the larger theme of "How to Maintain a Package" might be interesting to you, as a video-maker. [15:34] <kushal> yes, of course :) [15:35] <stickster> In other words, a series, one at a time, showing the essential skills [15:35] <stickster> (or more than one at a time if you like) :-) [15:35] <kushal> plus I want to do more for simple users [15:35] <kushal> but as I don't know most of the user tools or options, that is difficult for me :P [15:35] <stickster> tw2113: Is there a marketing task that *does* grab you by the lapels, which wouldn't take much of your time to achieve? [15:36] <mizmo> we're hoping to have my fedora tools ready for f10 that are focused on package maintainers [15:36] <stickster> tw2113: Ooo. I have an idea. [15:36] <mizmo> so the process might be changing (for the better) as soon as f10 [15:36] <-- bpepple|lt has left this server ("Ex-Chat"). [15:36] <tw2113> hit me [15:36] <mizmo> (something to keep in mind for that video) [15:36] <stickster> mizmo: Oh, that's true. [15:36] <kushal> mizmo, oh, ok [15:36] <stickster> So if kushal creates a lot of videos, they might all change :-\ [15:36] <stickster> s/change/need to change/ [15:36] <stickster> That would be silly [15:36] <stickster> tw2113: Are you a CSS guy? [15:36] <kushal> stickster, then I will work on that after f10 :) [15:37] <tw2113> i like to believe so, and have studied it in college [15:37] <tw2113> :) [15:37] <stickster> kushal: Whatever happens, make yourself happy doing videos, first and foremost :-0 [15:37] <stickster> :-) [15:37] <kushal> stickster, that I am :) [15:37] <stickster> tw2113: How would you like to fix the docs.fp.o CSS? [15:37] <stickster> tw2113: 'Coz we need it badly. [15:38] <tw2113> fancy it up and make it smashing? [15:38] <stickster> tw2113: Take a look at http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ [15:38] <stickster> 2002 called, and they want their styles back. [15:38] <ianweller> *that* is a domain that needs love. [15:38] <kushal> stickster, btw, I am uploading my ogg files to fedorapeople account [15:38] <stickster> tw2113: Now compare that to http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ [15:38] <kushal> soon I will be out of space [15:38] <stickster> tw2113: Which uses the newer, canonical styles. [15:38] <stickster> kushal: We can get you more, just ask in #fedora-admin [15:38] <stickster> kushal: And let them know I sent you ;-) [15:38] <kushal> stickster, then I will use my own space for both flvs and ogg [15:39] <kushal> stickster, oh, ok [15:39] <stickster> tw2113: So the objective is to match the docs.fp.o site to the newer official Fedora styling. [15:39] <kushal> stickster, my idea of keeping flvs on fedorapeople is nothing but advertisement [15:39] <kushal> that we *support* ogg [15:39] <tw2113> sounds like parts of that would be just copying new into old [15:39] <stickster> kushal: Hm, let me think on that. [15:39] <kushal> eh [15:39] <stickster> tw2113: Possibly. [15:40] <kushal> s/flv/ogg [15:40] <stickster> tw2113: The rub is, we need someone to *do* it who knows what he's doing :-) [15:40] <kushal> stickster, my idea of keeping oggs on fedorapeople is nothing but advertisement [15:40] <tw2113> yeah [15:40] <stickster> mizmo: That's the official styling, yes? [15:40] <tw2113> sure, i'll take on that task [15:40] <stickster> mizmo: e.g. what's on http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ ? [15:40] * stickster almost 100% sure of that, but JIC... [15:40] <stickster> tw2113: Awesome. [15:41] <stickster> tw2113: How long do you think you need for that? [15:41] <tw2113> how about we agree that i'll get on it asap [15:41] <stickster> tw2113: Do you want to try for next week, then? [15:42] <stickster> tw2113: Or does two weeks sound better for your schedule/time constraints? [15:42] <stickster> Or...? [15:42] <tw2113> it'll be my first official chance to push stuff live for Fedora, so i'd need a bit of help figuring out how to download the uptodate files and then pushing live etc [15:42] <tw2113> yeah, lets aim for 2 week [15:42] <stickster> ianweller may be able to help you with that [15:42] <tw2113> i'm sure i could find some help easy [15:42] <stickster> ianweller: Can I call on you for help in that regard? [15:42] <stickster> ugh. [15:42] <stickster> That was the crappiest sentence ever. [15:42] * ianweller yells at the government for making him go to school [15:42] <stickster> ianweller: Will you help with that? [15:43] <ianweller> stickster: possibly. [15:43] <kushal> ianweller, lol [15:43] <tw2113> i just have to work around a schedule that isn't the same every week [15:43] <stickster> tw2113: In fact, quaid or I may be able to help with that. [15:43] <ianweller> i have to work around school, and homework, and ughhhhhh [15:43] <stickster> The changes are made to a site to which we have access [15:43] <stickster> ianweller: no problem [15:43] <ianweller> i'll do what i can. [15:43] <tw2113> i can pester ricky for some help too if i need to [15:44] * ianweller wishes summer lasted 11 months [15:44] <stickster> tw2113: OK, I'll put in a 2-week status call [15:44] <tw2113> k [15:44] <stickster> Cool! [15:44] <stickster> Well, that's it for the agenda. [15:44] <stickster> Open floor! [15:44] <ianweller> oh goody, my computer's keyboard and mouse just locked up again [15:44] * stickster sure if gregdek were here, he'd have something sage to say, but I'm spent for the day. [15:44] <tw2113> who ordered the 15 pizzas? [15:45] * stickster edits Tasks page while others talk about marketing stuff (hopefully) [15:45] <ianweller> stickster: what's the status of trademark guidelines for business cards? [15:45] <stickster> ianweller: Actually, we discussed that at the Board meeting this week [15:45] <ianweller> i saw that in the notes, that's why i ask :P [15:45] <stickster> ah [15:45] <stickster> Well, what we were thinking is that we *want* everyone to use the standard cards [15:45] <stickster> *and* [15:46] <stickster> We would like people to include on the cards something that indicates how they can be "found" on our system, so recipients can verify the person is in Fedora [15:46] <ianweller> i wonder if there's a command line tool i can use to get my keyboard and mouse unfrozen. [15:46] <stickster> ianweller: yum install unbreakmydevices [15:46] <ianweller> stickster: i wish! [15:47] <stickster> Then you SMASH IT WITH A HAMMER!!! [15:47] <tw2113> just throw them out the window ianweller [15:47] <tw2113> the higher up you are, the better [15:47] <ianweller> i know it's not a hardware problem [15:47] <ianweller> it's a fedora problem. [15:47] <ianweller> and that's what makes me mad [15:47] <kushal> ianweller, same here [15:47] * ianweller sshes in and init 3;init 5 [15:47] <stickster> OK, are we done with marketing then? [15:47] <kushal> my personal lappy gets in same condition any time [15:47] <kushal> stickster, seems so :) [15:48] <stickster> 5 [15:48] <stickster> 4 [15:48] --> jesolato has joined this channel (i=jesolato(a)64-238-187-68.cty.apt.gru.net) [15:48] <stickster> 3 [15:48] <stickster> 2 [15:48] <stickster> 1 [15:48] <stickster> </meeting [15:48] <stickster> >

2 1

Page naming question - follow up to RFC
by David Nalley 07 Aug '08

07 Aug '08

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Currently the page http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Wiki_Structure#Page_naming has two different naming conventions, one for end-user docs, and one for non-end-user docs. The above says that single level nesting is ok for non-end-user sub-projects. ie, we could have /Ambassadors/Requirements_for_NA_Ambassadors (old style would have been /Ambassadors/NA/Requirements). And that end user docs is more akin to the RFC suggested style. The RFC iirc, says that page naming should be more akin to "A__Docs_Project_page_named_something_better" and abandon the /DocsProject/Pages/Better/Named/Because/Nested/A model. I saw a couple of messages as follow up (that focused on a specific page) but no real discussion of the merit of the RFC or lack thereof of page naming in general. Anyone care to wade into this discussion or will the RFC be implemented by fiat? I am purposefully trying to stir the pot a bit, as I recently asked for clarification and was told that there currently isn't a standard set - and that low list activity == poor decision making? :) Thoughts, Flames, Comments? David Nalley -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: http://getfiregpg.org iEYEARECAAYFAkibL0kACgkQkZOYj+cNI1epWwCffYn7HLtlAn/RMCfDMPmA6v7N yVYAn3sdlCBeihfJK/4t6Vfej673IxEj =0K7Z -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

3 2

Publican testing needed!
by Paul W. Frields 01 Aug '08

01 Aug '08

Hey folks, Jeff Fearn was good enough to roll up an update for publican in Fedora 9. It's in Bodhi right now and should be in the yum updates-testing repository soon-ish. Please try it out and give karma votes at the bodhi page: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F9/pending/publican-fedora-0.13-0.f… You can also download the RPMs there if you prefer. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

1 0

Re: Fedora Project Board Recap 2008-07-29
by Paul W. Frields 31 Jul '08

31 Jul '08

On Thu, 2008-07-31 at 19:54 -0400, Jon Stanley wrote: > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 7:33 PM, Paul W. Frields <stickster(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > # FESCo should track bug 438225 since this falls into their mandate > > So tracking :) > > > # ACTION :: Paul - Request contributor to produce statistics for review > > queue on a regular basis in Fedora Weekly news > > This should be trivial to provide as a weekly report, using > infrastructure that I already have around (and some new stuff for more > interesting statistics - like the number of bugs blocking FE-LEGAL, > FE-NEEDSPONSOR, etc). Where should it go? There's a Development beat in FWN which is run by Oisin Feeley. I'd suggest coordinating a location with him, and then he can simply include that information in the beat. Over time it would be a very good idea to grow a history of this data to graph. > > # ACTION :: Karsten - On Docs team, drive priority wiki gardening of the > > packaging and package review guidelines to make contributor uptake > > easier > > Issue is that FPC owns these pages and has them locked down (for good > reason - we don't want to say that proprietary software is OK in > Fedora, for example - since those pages dictate official policy that's > set by FPC) Right, these could easily be copied and repaired elsewhere, and moved into place upon acceptance by the packaging committee/FESCo. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

1 0

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

docs August 2008