December 2009 - docs - Fedora mailing-lists

[Bug 450331] New: lack of documentation on restoring from bare-metal (UUID problem)
by Red Hat Bugzilla 03 Apr '13

03 Apr '13

Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug report. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=450331 Summary: lack of documentation on restoring from bare-metal (UUID problem) Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: low Priority: low Component: docs-requests AssignedTo: kwade(a)redhat.com ReportedBy: czar(a)acm.org QAContact: stickster(a)gmail.com CC: fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com Description of problem: ref: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=449299 There is a lack of documentation on restoring a system from bare metal. I have found (see reference) that restore the root ("/") is not as simple as as just executing the restore command when running in rescue mode. With the current emphasis being place on use of UUIDs in both Fedora and RHEL, the whole business of UUIDs need to be better documented. Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable): Fedora 9 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.

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[Bug 504066] New: CMS for docs.fp.org
by Red Hat Bugzilla 26 Jun '11

26 Jun '11

Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: CMS for docs.fp.org https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504066 Summary: CMS for docs.fp.org Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: kwade(a)redhat.com ReportedBy: mel(a)redhat.com QAContact: kwade(a)redhat.com CC: fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com Classification: Fedora Zikula chosen, working on test instances and project plan with Zikula team -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

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[Bug 513907] New: SRPMs fail to build in Koji
by Red Hat Bugzilla 23 Nov '10

23 Nov '10

Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: SRPMs fail to build in Koji https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=513907 Summary: SRPMs fail to build in Koji Product: Fedora Version: 11 Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: urgent Priority: high Component: publican AssignedTo: jfearn(a)redhat.com ReportedBy: eric(a)christensenplace.us QAContact: extras-qa(a)fedoraproject.org CC: jfearn(a)redhat.com, fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com, mmcallis(a)redhat.com Classification: Fedora Description of problem: SRPMs fail to build in Koji due to the following error: Processing files: fedora-security-guide-en-US-1.0-16.fc12.noarch error: Two files on one line: /usr/share/applications/Fedora error: File must begin with "/": Projectfedora-security-guide-en-US.desktop Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable): 0.44-0.fc11 Possible Fix: Remove the %{?vendoropt} from desktop-file-install %{?vendoropt} --dir=${RPM_BUILD_ROOT}%{_datadir}/applications %{name}.desktop or remove %{vendor} all together. I'll be testing this soon to see if I can provide a patch. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

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[Bug 504064] New: Publican migration
by Red Hat Bugzilla 29 Oct '10

29 Oct '10

Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Publican migration https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504064 Summary: Publican migration Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: kwade(a)redhat.com ReportedBy: mel(a)redhat.com QAContact: kwade(a)redhat.com CC: fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com Classification: Fedora Figure out steps for a migration of each guide; track that in each guide's Trac. Installation Guide migration branch in git; task in progress, possible work at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents/FAD/FAD_SCaLE -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

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[Bug 504063] New: Toolchain next steps
by Red Hat Bugzilla 29 Oct '10

29 Oct '10

Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Toolchain next steps https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504063 Summary: Toolchain next steps Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: kwade(a)redhat.com ReportedBy: mel(a)redhat.com QAContact: kwade(a)redhat.com CC: fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com Classification: Fedora Sorting out what fedora-doc-utils does, where to use Publican, etc. -- Principals to discuss status, progress, direction on IRC. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

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[Bug 516794] New: Need to package OpenWYSIWYG
by Red Hat Bugzilla 07 Jul '10

07 Jul '10

Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Need to package OpenWYSIWYG https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=516794 Summary: Need to package OpenWYSIWYG Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: high Priority: high Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com ReportedBy: eric(a)christensenplace.us QAContact: eric(a)christensenplace.us CC: stickster(a)gmail.com Blocks: 504066 Classification: Fedora Download: http://code.zikula.org/scribite/downloads -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug.

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[Bug 516793] New: Need to package FCKeditor
by Red Hat Bugzilla 07 Jul '10

07 Jul '10

Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Need to package FCKeditor https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=516793 Summary: Need to package FCKeditor Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: high Priority: high Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com ReportedBy: eric(a)christensenplace.us QAContact: eric(a)christensenplace.us CC: stickster(a)gmail.com Blocks: 504066 Classification: Fedora Download: http://code.zikula.org/scribite/downloads -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug.

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[Bug 504067] New: Student mentoring
by Red Hat Bugzilla 06 Mar '10

06 Mar '10

Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Student mentoring https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504067 Summary: Student mentoring Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: kwade(a)redhat.com ReportedBy: mel(a)redhat.com QAContact: kwade(a)redhat.com CC: fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com Classification: Fedora Focus on wiki and entry tasks; regular check-ins; keep scope and choices narrow where there is lots of room to succeed and learn; FLOSS Proj Mgmt session at FUDCon? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

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[Bug 504069] New: Docs to fedorahosted.org
by Red Hat Bugzilla 06 Mar '10

06 Mar '10

Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Docs to fedorahosted.org https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504069 Summary: Docs to fedorahosted.org Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: kwade(a)redhat.com ReportedBy: mel(a)redhat.com QAContact: kwade(a)redhat.com CC: fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com Classification: Fedora 75% complete? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

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[Bug 504062] New: Update helping-hand docs
by Red Hat Bugzilla 06 Mar '10

06 Mar '10

Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Update helping-hand docs https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504062 Summary: Update helping-hand docs Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: kwade(a)redhat.com ReportedBy: mel(a)redhat.com QAContact: kwade(a)redhat.com CC: fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com Classification: Fedora Review, organize, rewrite, simplify, and categorize Docs team helper docs. -- waiting on page renaming and categorization -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

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[Bug 514046] New: Oracle-xe page for Spacewalk doesn't work
by Red Hat Bugzilla 16 Feb '10

16 Feb '10

Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Oracle-xe page for Spacewalk doesn't work https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=514046 Summary: Oracle-xe page for Spacewalk doesn't work Product: Fedora Hosted Projects Version: unspecified Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: Deployment_Guide AssignedTo: mhideo(a)redhat.com ReportedBy: mschwage(a)gmail.com QAContact: rlerch(a)redhat.com CC: fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com Classification: Fedora Description of problem: Sorry about the classification of this. I didn't see Spacewalk anywhere in Bugzilla! Anyway, on the webpage https://fedorahosted.org/spacewalk/wiki/OracleXeSetup#Install, the install instructions don't work as advertised. There, it says "Configure the Oracle XE database by running # /etc/init.d/oracle-xe configure" This did not set the system/sys name correctly. Yes, I know, the oracle-xe command comes from Oracle themselves, but on my RHEL53 machine it just refused to set the password correctly. Did I try to do it 10 times or more? Yes I did, and it did not work at all. Did I fat finger my password every single lousy time I tried it? No I did not, for I was able to create my password as easy as you please using my workaround below. Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable): oracle-xe-univ-10.2.0.1-1.0 oracle-instantclient-basic-10.2.0.4-1 oracle-instantclient-sqlplus-10.2.0.4-1 How reproducible: Every time. Steps to Reproduce: 1. Do this on RHEL53 x86_64. Install the Oracle-XE software as listed. 2. Follow the instructions on https://fedorahosted.org/spacewalk/wiki/OracleXeSetup#Install, up to and including the "Test Your Connection with SQLPlus" part. 3. You fail to login. Actual results: Fail to login. Expected results: Successful login. Additional info: The workaround is to perform the following after running /etc/init.d/oracle-xe configure : su - oracle . /usr/lib/oracle/xe/app/oracle/product/10.2.0/server/bin/oracle_env.sh /usr/lib/oracle/10.2.0.4/client64/bin/sqlplus /NOLOG CONNECT / AS SYSDBA alter user sys identified by password; alter user system identified by password; sqlplus64 'sys@xe as sysdba' -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

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Mission statement questions
by Karsten Wade 05 Feb '10

05 Feb '10

We have a mission as a sub-project: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_mission_statement The mission of the Fedora Documentation Project is to provide documentation to users and developers to improve the overall usage of Fedora. We do that by explaining the usage of certain pieces of software or systems, provide written accounts of special events (releases, etc), and provide recommendations on setting of software or systems (security, performance, etc). At a few reads, I don't really recognize any of the content. It has a few sentences that introduce newer ideas than I recall being in there. One is welcome in my mind (special events), one is an odd duck (provide recommendations). Also, some content is missing that I recall from before. The gist was, the project has a goal to produce 100% FLOSS content, tools, and processes. This goal fits in to the overall Fedora Project objective of being entirely rebuildable from source. Anyone know the history of the transition of the mission content? Was this discussed and I missed it? Otherwise, I'd like to discuss this mission statement. I posted some questions on these right here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:Docs_Project_mission_statement With a recommendation for an update here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:Docs_Project_mission_statement#Recommen… Your thoughts are appreciated. It's _our_ mission, after all. - Karsten -- name: Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Sr. Community Gardener team: Red Hat Community Architecture uri: http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg: AD0E0C41

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[Bug 533737] New: Recommend changing the Feedback statement to include the component name.
by Red Hat Bugzilla 21 Jan '10

21 Jan '10

Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Recommend changing the Feedback statement to include the component name. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=533737 Summary: Recommend changing the Feedback statement to include the component name. Product: Fedora Version: 12 Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: low Priority: low Component: publican-fedora AssignedTo: jfearn(a)redhat.com ReportedBy: eric(a)christensenplace.us QAContact: extras-qa(a)fedoraproject.org CC: jfearn(a)redhat.com, fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com, nb(a)fedoraproject.org, mmcallis(a)redhat.com, r.landmann(a)redhat.com Classification: Fedora Eric Christensen <eric(a)christensenplace.us> changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Flag| |review? Created an attachment (id=368073) --> (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=368073) Proposed patch for Feedback.xml Description of problem: Instead of telling people "When submitting a bug report, be sure to mention the manual's identifier: &BOOKID". It might be better to point them toward the specific component in BZ which just happens to be the same as the &BOOKID (or it should). Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable): 1.0-0.fc12 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

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new member introduction
by Vikram Dhillon 06 Jan '10

06 Jan '10

Hi all, How are you guys doing? I have been writing documentation for various project: Firefox, GNOME, KDE, FreeBSD and others, and I would like to get started with writing documentation for fedora. How can I get started here. Thanks for the help in getting me started :D Regards, Vikram Dhillon ~~~ There are lots of Linux users who don't care how the kernel works, but only want to use it. That is a tribute to how good Linux is. -- Linus Torvalds

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Updated Fedora 13 Schedules
by John Poelstra 03 Jan '10

03 Jan '10

I have updated the schedules based on our meeting on 2009-12-22. Let me know if there are any parts of it that still need to be adjusted by telling me the task number and schedule you are referring to. I created the regular version and a slimmed down version that removes some of the sub-headings and phase information. Please tell me if you would prefer this to be the default format going forward. -= Documentation =- http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13/f-13-docs-tasks.html http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13/f-13-docs-tasks-flat.html -= Translation =- http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13/f-13-trans-tasks.html http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13/f-13-trans-tasks-flat.html -= Combined =- http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13/f-13-docs-and-trans-tasks.h…

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Docs Meeting 2009-12-24 Summary
by John J. McDonough 23 Dec '09

23 Dec '09

=================================================================================================== #fedora-meeting: Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings =================================================================================================== Meeting started by sparks at 00:00:29 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-12-24/fedora-meeting.2… . Meeting summary --------------- * Roll Call (sparks, 00:00:46) * F13 Docs Schedule (sparks, 00:04:46) * Sandbox on Fedora People (sparks, 00:13:25) * Release Notes (sparks, 00:18:07) * Status on CMS (Zikula) (sparks, 00:28:52) * Does yum langpack support help us? (sparks, 00:31:09) * Guide Status (sparks, 00:32:51) * New Guides (sparks, 00:39:29) * Outstanding BZ Tickets (sparks, 00:40:56) * Everything else (sparks, 00:45:05) Meeting ended at 01:01:41 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * sparks (88) * jjmcd (82) * ianweller (5) * zodbot (3) * quaid (2) * nb (1) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot

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Docs Meeting 2009-12-24 IRC log
by John J. McDonough 23 Dec '09

23 Dec '09

00:00:29 <sparks> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:00:29 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Dec 24 00:00:29 2009 UTC. The chair is sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:00:29 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:00:39 <sparks> #chair jjmcd 00:00:39 <zodbot> Current chairs: jjmcd sparks 00:00:46 <sparks> #topic Roll Call 00:00:47 * sparks 00:00:59 * jjmcd . 00:01:23 * nb . 00:01:38 <ianweller> oh look, a meeting 00:03:33 <quaid> oi! 00:03:47 <sparks> wow! quaid is here! 00:03:52 <quaid> :D 00:04:17 <sparks> Okay, let's get started. 00:04:46 <sparks> #topic F13 Docs Schedule 00:05:13 <sparks> So we had a two and a half hour phone conference/Gobby meeting last night... 00:05:37 <sparks> where we got the F13 release schedule hammered out. 00:05:37 <jjmcd> Great fun it was 00:06:00 <sparks> So we made a few changes from previous releases that we need to talk about tonight. 00:06:58 <sparks> The first items is that we aren't going to freeze development of the Release Notes or Guides until the very end 00:07:22 <sparks> So everyone should keep working through the Alpha and Beta freezes 00:07:50 <sparks> Any questions about this or any comments? 00:08:08 <jjmcd> We will be producing pots for L10N on a regular schedule 00:08:08 <ianweller> what reason was there for that? 00:08:20 <sparks> jjmcd: Yeah, that's the next thing. 00:08:30 <sparks> ianweller: for which that? 00:08:33 <jjmcd> All the branches we had to keep track of what L10N had was confusing 00:08:37 <ianweller> 18:06:52 < sparks> The first items is that we aren't going to freeze development of the Release Notes or Guides until the very end 00:08:40 <ianweller> ^ that that 00:08:44 <sparks> :) 00:08:50 <jjmcd> ANd really, we were giving them the MINIMUM amount of time to translate 00:08:50 <sparks> Yeah, it just doesn't make sense. 00:09:02 <ianweller> oic 00:09:04 <jjmcd> This way they get the maximum amount of time 00:09:10 <sparks> yeah 00:09:20 <jjmcd> We had changes we were holding for them that they could have been workin gon 00:10:15 <sparks> The second thing we decided was that we were going to push POT files constantly. 00:10:33 <jjmcd> This way, As soon as we have text it will be available for L10N 00:10:35 <sparks> so nightly we should be pushing updated POT files so the translators aren't just sitting around waiting 00:11:37 <sparks> that means that the guides should be pushing POTs now! (Except we are still waiting for Transifex 0.7) 00:12:24 <sparks> Anything else on this topic? 00:13:25 <sparks> #topic Sandbox on Fedora People 00:13:33 <sparks> jjmcd: Want to talk about this? 00:13:38 <jjmcd> For Fedora 12, we built release notes each night for L10N. It turns out I didn't have the quota on fedorapeople.org for 42 languages, so I ended up putting them on is-sixsigma.com where I had some space. 00:13:54 <jjmcd> Having the RNs on an external host doesn't have the caché of having them on fedoraproject, and it doesn't do anything for guides. 00:14:07 <jjmcd> Ricky agreed to make us a group place where we can put draft documents. 00:14:24 <jjmcd> People in docs will have write access to /srv/groups/docs and that will be accessible via http://fedorapeople.org/groups/docs/ 00:14:36 <jjmcd> Just remember that files owned by you in that directory still count against your quota, so let infra know if you need more. 00:15:13 <jjmcd> I think that sums it up 00:15:17 <jjmcd> Any questions? 00:15:41 <jjmcd> This is for drafts. Finished docs still on docs.fp.o 00:15:57 <sparks> ya 00:17:06 <sparks> Okay, works for me... We'll publish the path when it is all setup. 00:18:01 <sparks> Okay, moving on 00:18:07 <sparks> #topic Release Notes 00:18:18 <sparks> jjmcd: Anything you want to talk about on this? 00:18:23 <jjmcd> I think we covered the exciting stuff 00:18:32 <sparks> Works for me 00:18:36 <jjmcd> We have a handful of bugs before we push an update 00:18:58 <jjmcd> One thing I should mention 00:19:35 <jjmcd> I am giving serious consideration to doing the F13 notes in html rather than Yelp. Plenty of time to change so if you want to dissuade me .... 00:20:31 <sparks> Well... As long as it is easy for the users to find the documents from the GUI... 00:20:45 <jjmcd> html addresses other desktops and I now know how to get the same functionality as yelp 00:20:50 <sparks> I don't have a problem with it. I'm hoping Yelp 3.x will fix a lot of problems for us. 00:21:06 <jjmcd> IF it addresses KDE, XFCE 00:21:18 <sparks> ya 00:22:16 <jjmcd> On the menu they will be hidden under "Release Notes" instead of "Help" 00:22:44 <sparks> And you can have it automagically select the proper language? 00:22:54 <jjmcd> of Vrigave Informatie nar Hulp 00:23:35 <sparks> I'm going to assume that means yes 00:23:39 <jjmcd> yes 00:23:44 <sparks> :) 00:23:47 <sparks> Make it so 00:23:53 <jjmcd> Not just the doc, but also the menu 00:23:59 <sparks> perfect 00:24:04 <sparks> and it's all in the same SRPM? 00:24:07 <jjmcd> yes 00:24:22 <jjmcd> You didn't read the C, did you? 00:24:43 <jjmcd> I know, C is a write-only language 00:25:09 <sparks> I looked at it briefly but I haven't had a chance to study it 00:25:47 <jjmcd> It really is pretty simple 00:26:12 <jjmcd> The only gotcha is that part of the javascript has to be in <head> rather than <body> 00:26:57 <jjmcd> Strangely, in <body> it works sometimes for some languages 00:27:05 <sparks> Hmmm 00:27:23 <jjmcd> but in <head> it always works 00:27:30 <sparks> well, there you go 00:27:41 <jjmcd> ja 00:28:21 <sparks> Okay... anything else? 00:28:26 <jjmcd> not here 00:28:39 <sparks> Okay.. moving on 00:28:52 <sparks> #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) 00:29:00 <sparks> Anyone have any updates on this? 00:29:39 <sparks> ke4qqq: You around tonight? 00:30:48 <sparks> Okay, maybe he'll be around in a few minutes. 00:31:09 <sparks> #topic Does yum langpack support help us? 00:31:17 <sparks> Do we have anything else on this? 00:32:42 <sparks> I guess not 00:32:51 <sparks> #topic Guide Status 00:33:07 <sparks> Okay, anyone have anything they want to talk about on their Guide projects? 00:34:06 <sparks> I'd like some help writing up a section of the Security Guide describing PolicyKit 00:34:35 <jjmcd> Is that even understandable by mortals? 00:35:22 <sparks> PolicyKit? I want to make it understandable... 00:35:24 <sparks> if I can understand it 00:35:49 <jjmcd> I just assumed it was as impenetrable as SELinux policies 00:36:16 <sparks> SELinux isn't impenetrable 00:36:21 <sparks> that's a guide for that 00:36:41 <jjmcd> Yeah, and books. And it makes good sense until you try to understand a policy 00:36:56 <sparks> heh 00:37:23 <jjmcd> I figured "policy" was a code word for too complicated 00:37:49 <sparks> nah 00:38:31 <sparks> anything else? 00:39:29 <sparks> #topic New Guides 00:39:40 <sparks> Anyone have any new guides? 00:40:56 <sparks> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets 00:41:58 <sparks> There are quite a few open tickets for Fedora Documentation 00:42:15 <jjmcd> most look to be chapter reviews 00:42:24 <sparks> Yes 00:42:56 <jjmcd> I screwed up by not tracking down notting this week I hope I don't have to wait for Jan 4 00:42:58 <sparks> There are quite a few customer requests in there too 00:43:10 <sparks> Might have to 00:43:29 <jjmcd> yeah. Just dunno 00:44:13 <sparks> Okay, anything else on this>? 00:45:05 <sparks> #topic Everything else 00:45:14 <sparks> Anyone have anything they want to discuss? 00:45:33 <jjmcd> Do you want a 10 minute tutorial on multilanguage rpm? 00:45:48 <sparks> Now? If you want to. 00:46:02 <jjmcd> Pretty straightforward if you have the stomach for it 00:46:57 <jjmcd> I don't hear anyone running away screaming 00:47:17 <jjmcd> OK, first, you need a tar. The tar has your doc in a directory per language 00:47:43 <jjmcd> A lot like you have in Publican, except the "format" directory pulled out 00:47:51 <jjmcd> You need 3 additional files 00:48:11 <jjmcd> At the top level, you have an index.html with some magical javascript 00:48:30 <jjmcd> The javascript includes a list of languages that will be in the rpm 00:48:42 <jjmcd> In head, it grabs the browser's language 00:49:07 <jjmcd> In body, it compares the browser language to the list and launches the doc based on the list 00:49:42 <jjmcd> The one tricky part is the language from the browser might be, for example, bn, bn-IN, or bn_IN 00:49:52 <jjmcd> THe list contains bn-IN 00:50:19 <jjmcd> If there is a hit against bn-IN, use it. If not, look for bn* and use the value from the list 00:50:31 <jjmcd> The two other files are desktop files, almost the same 00:51:00 <jjmcd> The menu language in the desktop file can be stolen from Article_Info.xml in the appropriate language 00:51:10 <jjmcd> The two desktop files are almost identical 00:51:42 <jjmcd> Now, the rpm install puts the index file in /usr/share/doc/HTML/<document-name> 00:51:50 <sparks> Anyway we can script this? 00:51:58 <jjmcd> And the publican in /usr/share/doc/HTML/<document-name>/<language> 00:52:06 <jjmcd> Yes, that is what the C program does 00:52:24 <jjmcd> You simply give it a publican directory and get an RPM 00:52:42 <sparks> cool 00:52:48 <sparks> You going to package it? 00:52:52 <jjmcd> The desktop files go in /usr/share/applications and /usr/share/applications/kde4 00:53:03 <jjmcd> I wasn't planning on it, but I suppose I could 00:53:20 <jjmcd> There is a pdf in there that has a gory description of the program 00:54:05 <jjmcd> I have 2 tars on my fedorapeople, one for the app and doc and another for the source 00:54:15 <sparks> cool 00:54:42 <jjmcd> I called it buildrpm. If I was going to package it I would rename it to something less generic 00:54:59 <sparks> ya 00:54:59 <jjmcd> like package-fedora-doc or something 00:55:32 <jjmcd> But if you build a guide in a few languages, you should be able to run it 00:55:39 <jjmcd> then install the rpm and try it out 00:55:52 <jjmcd> It packages what html 00:55:54 <jjmcd> s 00:55:58 <jjmcd> you have built 00:56:11 <jjmcd> so you can package any arbitrary collection of languages 00:56:38 <sparks> Cool 00:56:45 <jjmcd> It looks to find tmp/<lang>/html/index.html 00:57:13 <jjmcd> We should get David to review the spec it makes 00:57:33 <sparks> Yeah... That would be good 00:57:45 <jjmcd> In = publican directory plus a short config file, out=SRPM, RPM, spec 00:58:33 <sparks> Sounds good to me! 00:58:51 <jjmcd> read the pdf, altho it is kinda boring 00:59:39 <sparks> Okay... anything else? 00:59:39 <jjmcd> It does have pictures, tho 00:59:43 <jjmcd> nope 00:59:44 <sparks> Pictures? 00:59:46 <sparks> Cool 01:00:08 <sparks> Okay, anyone else? 01:00:10 <jjmcd> dot pictures, but pictures 01:00:53 <sparks> Does anyone have anything else they want to talk about? 01:01:19 <jjmcd> we put them to sleep 01:01:27 <sparks> I think so 01:01:38 <sparks> Okay, thanks for everyone coming! 01:01:41 <sparks> #endmeeting

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Fedora Docs Meeting Reminder
by Eric Christensen 23 Dec '09

23 Dec '09

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 REMINDER: There will be a Fedora Docs Meeting today at 0001 UTC. The agenda can be found at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting - --Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJLMhybAAoJEDbiLlqcYamxvZUQAIkyppKHM0GTv//G8H9MJrwi PnP7V1QyJ/o47A/n4KW540Zjy8RjlXCjdTUX6TeUd50wInzY6D+vg8VpTIET938+ veEiL6iWgPki0mDu20v/DnWxMacDLi83B86ykIgOU6jgox/D21iZx2qE07AWQaO/ 1NKl94qEK3R+bqid40CMF4+z3j6vgaiNx6SlFI8FHcU3sVXtex1JI6D4f1OVi0a7 db4gLCRtdGvCELHhHh3ouHsLwZuY01mgroitXsLhlfrNEkzpFXXxFHOcf4fdbqaZ 2Nq73hjsVBY6RM2QIpMgIAVXs+m9CRFiKsNLfhWfKvx+9QqFblrkf/+Hiwgy/qWf OLemBR0e0kiI9RV3j9YvKJe5cdC8++pEhkFD1PFljTBCGEebDZW8pSpAZoGetaZ5 PgtDYJa4IXVtYZWnngIFRkAhSGFuNdqYoZS6DzDR6XrQZp0CcfwVpyEFcJaVjkj/ 5RFJv68+ytzKj6qPAnOZGl1EcyCa+A6O8IxH4EaQAXPz7QqSUQrLdZl+HUTO67Lb ejKClfiLlCA9xF75V4segOLmx3VzlFi9bcSbLkybWshmxItt86GhoEHfedleYh1Z uSKERc0s9MKZIRkPj1eeW8elmLK9LT0ksRcG1a4NjNPHqNVllKbxF9uGBx4VM+Zq b8kJMRze2Rn3QBzRZQH0 =h80U -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Documentation schedule for F13
by Eric Christensen 22 Dec '09

22 Dec '09

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I just got off of a phone conference with other Fedorians where we discussed the Documentation schedule for F13. Wish I could say it's ready for public consumption right now but it is still pretty ugly. I'm sure that John (poelcat) will have it out in a few days. We worked with Noriko on the translator schedule as well. One of the bigger changes that will be happening is that we have eliminated the freezes associated with Alpha and Beta. It will be a continuous work in progress. This has the benefit of allowing the translators to have time to translate the Release Notes as they are being developed and not having hundreds (thousands?) of lines of text made available to them with a short period of time to work. The same will be done for the Guides as well. F13 guide development started the day F12 was released so the new POT files should be made available to the translators now (pending the Transifex 0.7 upgrade). I hope this makes for a smoother process for this release. We will continue to tweak the process along the way as well. - --Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJLMZOLAAoJEDbiLlqcYamxF+4P/2C4LPE9bUGurzDKPUbEnmRb +ARwIB4rpCt7N00PdQkiP4h2xYLAoBXfD7t3CjinmzllVdHga5cdkGMjcZLpmv/v UOBZs1vjwb3mZBb9oUFXwEAZW2rbPomW8rBNkthBS8TXxgvuphjZM4ysnE/uHtDy q6Wp/hzNYj1pyj2+edIZ5UO8KsYx9K8IvEEoheyj6m7Amm2PLj4YOw5+EPAYOo+/ IL7kBTDkBheXHv+T5BgR9bVlmUeq74V8QxUy543/olQsLSGm7Oc6TfUYYhRPOfQL QDtcR9E+pTG2RSKi99VHQZ5dmKfJLrhz0GDwbpnmyGCXCG4yOSFlj6ULOvnT8+P8 Uxe2Rh/b1ZDdVQkIiyL6WoCmYqQAKBEw/Mwr7RLAqhsBBS66o0jcS2CpWHkSlu3o 32D6CG7a3HLQR2SfXWIbg+Tu/5B585f8wH8M49zSFwkUgcH9XWCbowk4WYuFpEf9 W+YJ3mXEiSoGyGTicsS9bPhGvoLXCjvsxxja7i21QhV9cVjgQJLdbNHHXhcr5ujp aIt0gRiiNDLxrnfY9WgyAMwBUQ+7TUoGLCgOPtfaXtsau1vFwBjJ3lresrrHNMBV YDdmVlmDc+9IQXnfYF40VSLg4Q6oOYdoRjxA2qmR2heVPMSOUqrsJz3fOQmW6S8G rK8VYa3//cpG6OUcvp30 =0Z7p -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Documentation & Translation schedule review
by John Poelstra 22 Dec '09

22 Dec '09

In anticipation of the meeting suggested by Sparks on logistics list, I've created a text version of the schedule that should work well for customizing or using in gobby. http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13-draft/f-13-docs-trans-sched… This version is a combination of: 1) key milestones for the release as a whole (to provide context) 2) Documentation tasks 3) Translation tasks The most helpful feedback you can give me (at the meeting or elsewhere) is to provide corrections, additions, or deletions based on the version I've created. It does not help me if you create your own version from scratch and refer to it because then I have to start all over which is a big investment of time. A patch or diff against the original file works too. Thanks, John

4 14

Self-Introduction:
by Joseph Allen 22 Dec '09

22 Dec '09

I will now introduce myself, starting with what I have worked on in the past. A while ago I worked on what I called The Linux Terminal Guide, an online blog with some helpful How-To articles. One day I hoped to compile a bunch of Man pages, but I realized that would not reach out to very many people. I hope to help more people by writing How To articles for Fedora Docs. I do not know what my skills would best be classified as but I do know how to use the command line VERY well, i.e. I never really use the graphical package manager. I guess you could say I know-my-way around Fedora as I have "hacked" it, an example being that I as I write I am using Wmii with Gnome-Panel. I do know how to use Web Servers and Administer web-sites. On the side I like chatting with my friends and helping my mom with her Fedora-enabled computer. So what makes me an excellent match for the project? I feel that Fedora is rather lacking some docs, and I want to help! I have rather good writing skills and I know how to do a fair amount in Fedora. I look forward to working on some Docs! As requested here is the output of gpg --fingerprint <yourKEYIDhere>: [joseph@localhost ~]$ gpg --fingerprint 60A37A5D pub 1024D/60A37A5D 2009-12-19 Key fingerprint = 43EF DBB9 8299 73F6 1689 7206 091A D1B9 60A3 7A5D uid Joseph Allen <bloggersciencewithjoe(a)gmail.com> sub 2048g/4D7523E1 2009-12-19 -- JOSEPH ALLEN, C/A, CAP G.V. 'Sonny' Montgomery Composite Squadron SER-MS-102 Mississippi Wing Civil Air Patrol

4 12

Schedule Review Meeting :: Tuesday 2009-12-22 @ 8 PM EST / (2009-12-23 @ 1:00 UTC)
by John Poelstra 21 Dec '09

21 Dec '09

Thanks for the feedback everyone gave. It appears that next Tuesday @ 20:00 EST will be the best date and time. We will be working in real time using Fedora Talk: Extension 2009 and gobby http://talk.fedoraproject.org/ http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/GobbyHowTo Look forward to talking to everyone then. John

3 2

Schedule Review Meeting :: Tuesday 2009-12-22 @ 8 PM EST / (2009-12-23 @ 1:00 UTC)
by John Poelstra 21 Dec '09

21 Dec '09

Thanks for the feedback everyone gave. It appears that next Tuesday @ 20:00 EST will be the best date and time. We will be working in real time using Fedora Talk: Extension 2009 and gobby http://talk.fedoraproject.org/ http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/GobbyHowTo Look forward to talking to everyone then. John

2 2

RPM Guide and RPM Max
by John J. McDonough 17 Dec '09

17 Dec '09

At FUDcon, Florian Festi approached me about Docs updating the RPM Guide and the book, Maximum RPM, both of which have gotten a little stale. The RPM Guide was already on our radar, and Ben Cotton has taken point on getting that ready to be worked on. Maximum RPM is currently hosted at rpm.org, and does not appear to have been built with the old doc tools. There seem to be some specific dependencies on Fedora 8, so there will be a little work converting it to something more up to date. The other issue, though, is licensing. This probably won't be difficult to deal with but it is something that needs to be addressed. The current copyright holder is Red Hat. We will probably discuss this at an upcoming Docs Team meeting, but I did want to give everyone a heads-up that this is going on. We may also want to carry on some discussion on an rpm.org mailing list so that community is also aware of the effort. At this point not much has actually happened. Ben has moved the RPM Guide to git, but I don't think anything else has happened there, I have looked at the Maximum RPM sources and verified Florian's assessment that this isn't a straightforward build, and quaid is aware of the licensing issues. The RPM Guide is at: git.fedoraproject.org/rpmguide.git Maximum RPM is at rpm.org/git/max-rpm.git --McD

4 7

Docs Meeting 2009-12-17 Summary
by Eric Christensen 16 Dec '09

16 Dec '09

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 =================================================================================================== #Fedora-Meeting: Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings =================================================================================================== Meeting started by sparks at 23:59:54 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-12-16/fedora-meeting.2… . Meeting summary - --------------- * Roll Call (sparks, 00:00:10) * Action items from last week's meeting (sparks, 00:06:08) * ACTION: sparks to coordinate a meeting between docs, L10N, and others on translation questions and F13 schedule. (sparks, 00:07:10) * LINK: http://jjmcd.fedorapeople.org/F13-RelNotes-MajorTasks.html (sparks, 00:07:55) * Release Notes (sparks, 00:08:23) * Status on CMS (Zikula) (sparks, 00:20:50) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status (sparks, 00:21:00) * Does yum langpack support help us? (sparks, 00:24:44) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/YumLangpackPlugin (sparks, 00:24:51) * Guide Status (sparks, 00:39:26) * New Guides (sparks, 00:43:34) * Outstanding BZ Tickets (sparks, 00:44:45) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&classificatio… (sparks, 00:44:55) * Langpack (again) (sparks, 00:54:43) * Anything else? (sparks, 01:06:45) Meeting ended at 01:09:46 UTC. Action Items - ------------ * sparks to coordinate a meeting between docs, L10N, and others on translation questions and F13 schedule. Action Items, by person - ----------------------- * sparks * sparks to coordinate a meeting between docs, L10N, and others on translation questions and F13 schedule. * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) - --------------------------- * sparks (103) * jjmcd (52) * rudi (34) * juhp (34) * Tsagadai (5) * zodbot (3) * anross (3) * bcotton (2) * shaunm (2) * ianweller (1) * buggbot (1) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJLKbovAAoJEDbiLlqcYamxTgkP/jHoNiS4BKmV7b4InKMJ609G oU/fguktBGfMDvcedATQ6RNIaUwtmL9YG9Bw3heYLRRs1EbdQ8BE96CLl+3uQLC6 EIMC+A6VL0h+XBktOiJC/y7RBMGUuulyIzLgnXKu3dzf4eIwyHLu8o1awXcl05sf iui8BR+BbU2oWT6Ql8JwZIxs7f5taE1E7mulV/z/4NTnCWZSWFYptWyP3lnkumJ7 R4je3yaivlZ0mRj9nc6N0bwAx1iaCZuznEPZql1vJSOwlZL4EouZx8Mee+a/wIo7 4ozCdyeyON9bFTUyloa18yLOYiBl/KuTc/RnpUTCKTxUKMvrmoImDwC5huVr0Tmo hbJdtLjVoMvR8TX5z0t9fA21u2VU3d7+UeCWqwqx+HNInWcsltgmxqgUuWPagsKm wrSZtLXB1nVaLRY7O62uzBfcGGO1PXk68+8+za8xHQOEBadEXuOL/x9gnriEOIRX 2INTYZAyzHJqr+eYgmixre8zOGlT/91ELOxAoqFNVK7OzlkQ3r30yyNfDPfe3S2h 2eOdpzWPVS5cTJ+wWXnLgIZtgw/agNPOBRO2Z0xp6HO3/QT5nAcrkUpP/EyTr78U /wF1LfDXP/YVL6XRJFsh04c4eHcA4feGGz7QxbugDSzdUE8lI7r+nWbiJ8DKUpR+ DDgvbOvzpwmcAILY5Yl6 =aHwL -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Docs Meeting 2009-12-17 IRC log
by Eric Christensen 16 Dec '09

16 Dec '09

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 23:59:54 <sparks> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 23:59:54 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Dec 16 23:59:54 2009 UTC. The chair is sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 23:59:54 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:00:00 <sparks> #chair jjmcd 00:00:00 <zodbot> Current chairs: jjmcd sparks 00:00:10 <sparks> #topic Roll Call 00:00:11 * sparks 00:00:15 * ianweller 00:01:33 * bcotton is here 00:01:46 * rudi is here 00:01:56 * jjmcd . 00:03:12 * sparks gives everyone a few more minutes to trickle in 00:03:30 * Tsagadai is here 00:06:02 <sparks> Okay, let's get started 00:06:08 <sparks> #topic Action items from last week's meeting 00:06:19 <sparks> Sparks to send a message to L10N and Logistics about a docs planning meeting for early next week 00:06:31 <sparks> Yeah, that didn't happen. Still working on it, though. 00:07:10 <sparks> #action sparks to coordinate a meeting between docs, L10N, and others on translation questions and F13 schedule. 00:07:19 <sparks> jjmcd to review poelcat's schedule and come up with a recommendation before the meeting 00:07:36 <jjmcd> done - link in agenda 00:07:36 <sparks> jjmcd: Is your action items waiting on my action item? 00:07:42 <sparks> Oh! 00:07:42 <jjmcd> No 00:07:55 <sparks> #link http://jjmcd.fedorapeople.org/F13-RelNotes-MajorTasks.html 00:07:56 <jjmcd> Mostly I want to focus on getting the core deliverables right 00:08:01 <sparks> Excellent 00:08:17 <sparks> Okay, moving on... 00:08:23 <sparks> #topic Release Notes 00:08:27 <jjmcd> For F12 all the clutter caused us to miss an important detail - the schedule had us building the rpm two weeks after jesse needed it 00:08:39 <sparks> There is a question... Should L10n merge POs? 00:08:59 <sparks> Yes, the F12 schedule wasn't ideal... 00:09:08 <jjmcd> I am feeling like they ought to be paying the price of not getting the new tfx up 00:09:30 <jjmcd> As long as we are a crutch for them, they really have no reason to get off dead center 00:10:15 <sparks> I'm okay with doing things like RH does them... let the translators do everything 00:10:33 <jjmcd> Now, logistically, this might not be realistic, but I think we should at least make the threat 00:10:48 <rudi> I think it's the right direction to be heading 00:11:25 <sparks> I'm not sure that logistically it's not realistic. It certainly is possible. A lot of our business practices would have to change. 00:11:35 <rudi> +1 sparks 00:12:01 <sparks> BUT you wouldn't have things like the French pulling their translations. If they weren't ready then they wouldn't publish them 00:12:14 <rudi> I don't know whether shifting all the burden for producing and publishing the translated docs can go from Docs -> L10N in the space of one release 00:12:15 <jjmcd> yeah, I mean in principle it seems to make sense, but I got the impression that a lot of their translators had very limited technical capability so it might all fall on glezos 00:12:22 <sparks> rudi: Hell, I've shaken everything else up around here... 00:12:28 <rudi> lolz 00:12:30 <jjmcd> hehe 00:12:57 <rudi> jjmcd -- I think there would be a *lot* of hand-holding to begin with 00:12:58 <sparks> Well... if we are going to rotate our practice around the tool, then the tool better be easy to use. 00:13:11 <sparks> Luckily Publican 1.x isn't difficult 00:13:26 <jjmcd> yeah -- but I think many, maybe even most, actually do the translation in aarghh windows 00:13:30 <sparks> rudi: We could push information into the translators guide 00:13:34 <sparks> which we should do anyway 00:13:43 <rudi> jjmcd -- fortauntely, Publican 1 runs fine on Windows :) 00:13:52 <jjmcd> Oh, is that right!!! 00:13:54 * sparks wouldn't know about that 00:13:55 <jjmcd> holy smokes 00:14:04 <rudi> Mac is coming RSN :) 00:14:45 <jjmcd> that could be a big win then 00:14:49 <rudi> sparks -- yeah; I plan to update parts of the TQSG shortly to cover Publican 1 usage 00:14:58 <jjmcd> If the translators could immediately see their product 00:15:01 <sparks> rudi: +1 00:15:19 <rudi> The problem is still the interoperabilty of Publican and Transifex though 00:15:40 <sparks> well... they should know how to build their documents even if the "owner" is still going to handle the publishing. 00:15:44 <jjmcd> Oh, yeah, so they might have Publican on win, but not msgmerge 00:16:04 <sparks> Well... Transifex needs to be updated... period 00:16:05 <rudi> Actually, the gettext tools are packaged for Windows too 00:16:21 <rudi> And are included in the Publican installer .exe too :) 00:16:34 <jjmcd> Ahhh, now that's a plan 00:16:37 <rudi> But yeah; the Transifex problem is real and growing 00:16:44 <jjmcd> growing? 00:17:15 <rudi> Translators have had multiple issues over the last few weeks with accessing and uploading files 00:17:37 <jjmcd> what has changed? 00:18:08 <rudi> Which has exposed the bigger problem in that the current version is an unmaintained one, and that the Transifex guys don't really have the time to maintain Fedora's instance 00:18:43 <rudi> I think in this case, it was specifically a bug in infra; but it took an enormous amount of time to track down; which caused a lot of grief for L10N 00:19:57 <sparks> Well, the plan to migrate to 0.7 is there 00:20:19 <sparks> Okay, anything else on this topic? 00:20:50 <sparks> #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) 00:21:00 <sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status 00:21:12 <sparks> I wish David was here tonight... 00:21:19 <sparks> mchua_afk: You around? 00:21:36 <sparks> So there are still modules that need to be packaged... 00:21:52 <sparks> and apparently the new version of Zikula has a library that needs to be yanked out and packaged. 00:22:08 <sparks> David is working that part but he needs some help. 00:22:49 <sparks> Anyone want to volunteer to help David with Zikula? 00:23:52 <sparks> I'm also going to need help with Limesurvey. 00:24:19 <sparks> It has several libs in it that I have to pull out. I've never had to deal with that kind of thing so I'm not sure how to go about doing that. 00:24:44 <sparks> #topic Does yum langpack support help us? 00:24:51 <sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/YumLangpackPlugin 00:25:17 <sparks> jjmcd: Did you add this? 00:25:47 <jjmcd> Sounds like if we package a guide and individual langpack, people can install, say, user-guide and auto get their local lang 00:25:54 <sparks> juhp: You around? 00:25:56 <jjmcd> and they don't need to get them all 00:26:12 <sparks> Sounds cool. 00:26:28 <jjmcd> Doesn't seem to help RN but it does guides 00:26:28 * sparks was hoping Jens was monitoring IRC to talk about this. 00:26:32 <jjmcd> *HOWEVER* 00:26:55 <jjmcd> It looks to me that making the langpack is going to take a bit of head scratching 00:27:07 <jjmcd> At least for html, not so much for yelp 00:27:31 <sparks> rudi: Is Jens in throwing distance? 00:28:22 <sparks> jjmcd: So it would be difficult to get it to work with html but would work with yelp? 00:28:24 <rudi> sparks -- down the hall 00:28:33 <rudi> hang on :) 00:28:35 <sparks> rudi: Didn't know if you could throw something at him. 00:28:35 <jjmcd> Well, that's my read 00:28:49 <jjmcd> Not impossible, but it would take some creativity 00:29:08 <rudi> ping juhp 00:30:19 <sparks> rudi: Oh well... 00:30:29 <jjmcd> I think I could do it but I would hit it with a hell of a big club. stickster might be a little more elegant about it 00:30:35 <sparks> jjmcd: Well, I'd definitely be interested in how it would all work. 00:30:36 <rudi> Hang on -- I'll try in person :) 00:31:38 <rudi> Sorry -- not at desk 00:31:52 <jjmcd> In yelp 2 you just add the omf, in 3, put the new language in the right place and it all works 00:31:55 <sparks> rudi: That's okay 00:32:12 <jjmcd> In html it would take some editing during install. 00:32:20 <sparks> And 3 is coming out in Sep? 00:33:22 <sparks> shaunm: When is Yelp 3 coming out? 00:33:23 <jjmcd> Well, the Q isn't when it is coming out, it is when will it be packaged 00:33:44 <sparks> jjmcd: Yeah, but as soon as it hits the streets we can start playing 00:33:44 <jjmcd> But it is such a minor diff, the OMF ain't rocket science 00:34:57 <sparks> Okay... 00:35:07 <sparks> Well, this is all very interesting news. 00:35:37 <sparks> Anything else on this topic? 00:35:38 <jjmcd> I think doc langpacks are prolly F14 anyway. Too risky to try to use them for 13 00:35:58 <sparks> Can Publican make langpacks? 00:36:10 <sparks> or is it just the way they are "titled"? 00:37:23 <jjmcd> Publican can't package except in the trivial case 00:38:52 <jjmcd> but if we have langpack and if they are similar to RHEL maybe we can talk them into it 00:38:54 <sparks> Okay, maybe we can get more details on this later. 00:39:03 <sparks> ya 00:39:17 <sparks> Okay... moving on 00:39:26 <sparks> #topic Guide Status 00:39:38 <sparks> Anyone want to talk about their Guides? 00:40:16 <Tsagadai> I'm making progress 00:40:18 <Tsagadai> :) 00:40:39 <rudi> Tsagadai -- did you see that bug about screenshots? :P 00:40:51 <Tsagadai> I go on leave soon so there won't be any significant progress on that until january 00:41:00 <Tsagadai> but it is planned 00:42:07 <sparks> Anyone else? 00:43:06 * bcotton promises to have some kind of progress to report in the first 2010 meeting 00:43:23 * sparks marks down bcotton's promise 00:43:34 <sparks> #topic New Guides 00:43:39 <sparks> Any new guides coming out? 00:44:45 <sparks> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets 00:44:55 <sparks> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&classificatio… 00:44:56 <rudi> anross -- did you want to say something about QE and bugzilla? 00:45:05 <sparks> We quite a few open tickets. 00:45:25 <anross> rudi: didn't have a speech planned ;) 00:45:33 <sparks> If you have tickets assigned to your project please grab them, mark them assigned, and try to work them. 00:45:50 <sparks> At least make sure the person who filed it knows the ticket is being worked. 00:45:52 <anross> but... in general... how do people feel about having someone progress bugs from modified to closed 00:46:09 <anross> 2nd set of eyes 00:46:46 <jjmcd> Well, a number of them are waiting for a push of F11 RN's. The source has been updated, I don't know the translation status, but mostly waiting for an rpm 00:47:48 <rudi> jjmcd -- and I think one of the blockers for that is working out what to do with the PackageKit warning... 00:47:55 <jjmcd> That's F12 00:48:14 <jjmcd> And actually, I don't think thats a biggie 00:48:30 <jjmcd> more challenging is the CPU one, and I don't want to do the two separately 00:49:06 <jjmcd> THe prob with the CPU one is that I can't figure out how to find an authoratative answer. We've had several "authorities" with different opinions 00:49:32 <rudi> True 00:49:44 <shaunm> sparks: september, with gnome 3 00:50:01 <jjmcd> I haven't got much evidence to prefer one opinion over another 00:50:24 <shaunm> there will be development releases before then, of course. but you won't want to target it until you're targetting gnome 3 00:51:00 <sparks> shaunm: cool 00:51:31 <sparks> jjmcd: Maybe just put in the higher of the two CPUs and when the lesser one works then they are still happy 00:51:55 <jjmcd> I may just ask stickster_afk who to ask 00:52:07 <sparks> +1 00:52:23 <jjmcd> If I can catch him on one of those two minute intervals in the AM when he's not _afk 00:52:33 <sparks> jjmcd: There are a lot of RN tickets out there that are still flagged as NEW. 00:52:41 <sparks> good luck 00:52:45 <juhp> sparks: hi 00:52:46 <jjmcd> Oh, I'll look at them 00:53:02 <jjmcd> I thought I had most of the new ones 00:53:02 <sparks> Okay, anything else on the bugs? 00:53:18 <juhp> (ah langpacks) 00:53:27 <jjmcd> Hi Jens 00:53:32 <sparks> juhp: Hi! We want to know more about the langpack feature you are working on. Can you wait a sec? 00:54:22 <juhp> yup np 00:54:26 <sparks> Okay... moving on... 00:54:43 <sparks> #topic Langpack (again) 00:55:02 <sparks> juhp: So can you give us a brief overview of your langpack feature? 00:55:16 <juhp> :) sorry was in a phone meeting 00:55:45 <juhp> bug 536737 00:55:46 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=536737 medium, medium, ---, panemade, ASSIGNED, Review Request: yum-langpacks - langpacks plugin for yum 00:56:01 <juhp> yeah basically the package is ready to do into f13 00:56:50 <sparks> And what would it do for us? 00:56:51 <juhp> it is a pretty simple yum plugin that allows langpacks for a user's locale etc to be autoinstalled when they install or update a package 00:57:48 <juhp> so i didn't read all the context above but if you have a master package and then translations were "langpacks" they could probably be installed for the user 00:58:11 <jjmcd> OK, dumb question, what makes a langpack? 00:58:14 <sparks> Could this be done in anaconda, too? 00:58:21 <sparks> yeah, and what jjmcd said. 00:58:31 <juhp> yup 00:58:36 <juhp> <jjmcd> Sounds like if we package a guide and individual langpack, people can install, say, user-guide and auto get their local lang 00:58:45 <juhp> sorry yup to ^ 00:58:49 <rudi> juhp -- so, for example, if the masterpackage was fedora-release-notes-en-US -- then users could automatically pull in fedora-release-notes-de-DE ? 00:59:04 <juhp> for anaconda - currently it would probably have to go to language support groups 00:59:15 <juhp> I haven't tested anaconda yet but it might work 00:59:47 <jjmcd> presumably, a langpack would have to have some install script to merge it with the installed content 00:59:49 <juhp> rudi: I would prefer fedora-release-notes to fedora-release-notes-en-US 01:00:07 <juhp> jjmcd: merge? 01:00:07 <rudi> OK -- but that's the mechanism :) 01:00:15 <juhp> rudi: yep 01:00:44 <jjmcd> Well, we are talking docs, so we don't have message files laying around, we're not going to translate at run time 01:00:45 <rudi> juhp -- and what specifies something as a master package or a "translation package"? Something in the .spec? 01:00:51 <juhp> rudi: I think fedora-release-notes-en-US would work too so forget my comment above for this discussion anyway :) 01:01:13 <juhp> rudi: currently it is hardcoded in the plugin ;) 01:01:22 <rudi> Awesome :) 01:01:34 <juhp> I am planning to have metadata you can provide later 01:01:42 <juhp> s/have/support/ 01:02:33 <juhp> rudi: do yeah for now you could just file a bug and I can add base/langpacks pairs to the list 01:02:39 <juhp> s/do/so 01:02:46 <rudi> Wow! 01:02:57 <rudi> That's a very cool solution :() 01:02:58 <juhp> is it good? :) 01:03:00 <rudi> :) even 01:03:05 <juhp> ok :) 01:03:07 <juhp> thanks 01:03:44 <rudi> We had been idly wishing last week that PackageKit could do something like this :) 01:03:49 <juhp> rudi: you may still need to add them in comps too though for <language>-support groups 01:03:51 <rudi> And Jens makes it happen :) 01:04:02 <sparks> juhp: Can you come back next week and talk more about this? 01:04:08 <juhp> yeah it would have been in f12 if I had been a bit faster... 01:04:13 <juhp> sure 01:04:19 <sparks> cool 01:04:28 <juhp> but next week it should be in rawhide too... 01:04:30 <juhp> by 01:04:52 <juhp> the package is approved but I didn't have time to import it yet :) 01:05:08 <juhp> glad you guys want to use it :) 01:05:29 <sparks> cool! 01:05:43 <juhp> thanks for asking :) 01:06:00 <sparks> Okay, any other questions for Jens while we have him on RH's dime? 01:06:34 <sparks> juhp: Thanks for coming by to chat. 01:06:41 <juhp> pleasure 01:06:45 <sparks> #topic Anything else? 01:06:54 <sparks> Okay, is there anything else anyone wants to talk about? 01:07:41 <jjmcd> Did you see S1775 passed unanimously 01:07:55 <sparks> yes! :) 01:08:00 <jjmcd> (OT but "anything else ;-)) 01:08:27 * sparks already sent it to the packet network 01:08:45 <jjmcd> hehe - I have a cron job does that 01:09:03 <sparks> Okay... anyone? anything? 01:09:31 <sparks> Well.... 01:09:41 <sparks> Thanks everyone for coming out! 01:09:46 <sparks> #endmeeting -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJLKbn4AAoJEDbiLlqcYamxSeUQALf/gBKweE03i0e8w3nhNTt2 5pqThkuw+ZRjp2bHZLE4yZfzv1Ax4xK/9u7bqnQVU+brk7XIqh8uDEUkLJfr+zOH NUxESGpVJq3OsAyggGAFUSUk1iE9s9EYHhN8aUgMIBE7hhvtoGQd8O39DokYeMPA nUzoGDjBs8n/ndGGBVVjdDAz54BGRsxzE2X8NLuGHu0LgsPdPvttCquXa/UfHsHM E/25HezSjhV56omVOZVBtAlj4xtVBeloBpl3wT3JiC6xuz2jXq1LF1Deodqt3qeN F1Yj1o4YEQIWYdD8DKv68Z5tDyjXvnU+f0+0qix6oQDGswWMkJ5D6DK/JYAAgJur GU7jDUCSd6jORzPHxQijS7vEGYRMXGwP9ftwiIMEMesd8W9go6Tp/2ppGZpuM0YY URtHGTrMNRZ5tWt2ZOvxZs+F/QaQP4EYCGPCzmDNDtYSkcrWL40BQB1oFDpzRVKQ 1lTv7mG9J/dnxAnm0tLu9oxYtWz0JTk7S/Yd2nB7xXamaYBvWIjh0/OlL7qYods9 chykQi1ZqAJ3+Qj3Gi5qGxhAf9H+LyTp3QcqTezlWjHVQtz2lo27R5dkpq+qlYF9 F/uIXVOtJBQbTyll2orYp8wf6+nSEsMvvnuZRLXSOO2QWmw/CFjdgQJscAHQZ926 fEpbsM8Ofucaz4tVUwcq =Fk/8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Zikula Weekly Meeting
by Eric Christensen 16 Dec '09

16 Dec '09

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 We used to have a weekly Zikula meeting before the licensing issues brought us to a screeching halt. We are mostly beyond that, now. To meet the Insight time-line Zikula needs to be up and running in 2.5 months (at Alpha). That would also work for Docs as well. The following people need to be at the meeting: David (ke4qqq) Eric (Sparks) Mel (mchua) Simon (itbegins) Anyone else? If those NEED people could send me their available times I'll put together a time to meet. Also, we could use some additional packagers. If you would like to help us out, please let me know that as well and I'll include your schedule in my consideration. Thanks, Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJLKGL6AAoJEDbiLlqcYamxrm0P/ifOYI5zEzMtC9EHcyINg+rJ Iv3ACzeCi8ghjVAlO9xlHeXXzVDOIYcoSD9UZUcIc7hJw7pJHtUINKZjsvQ5Erjj W10Ji2UXamXKsm36miykaEhv6an5DX6RSCrAS7MYCHXTLGVwpyha0RhoDrrOJjOP YsmKYDy/pN46BLi2csjBKamB5zv+FZrEXkHNaMOgJvrW1J+5GuULW+4eInECQMPu cxUQ62x4gvukenUX7sJ/9cAjRfiS7jzRT4xE1yubOPOnTlwEWZ0K/rUBJaDqZ4pk mjIzWyu7zR7Z/V8blKxpsz+hVtLQy47eo2e2sfPDVGoI1xNzWGJOaovps/CsHZE3 XFsLRvPmx04IpwEjH4DNrFWQZ+WDUAo7r/KBIGfR8NkPnchJCCSC8bwwz/wfpD9u M0Hq/AlN5JWhoS5CU3agIZfSu0FmR8RxAg5gkBDczILVsCxLk+6ht5o2T7zC0uDS FTJUif446vAmgnBgVtkg9fPEuG2gBD3+b8n6Ck28aBUq8RmqY1OvhAvF2q5m6WbQ IEuRhCKKVwP1UYOYzBzvdawk8Y2Swf8oShLg9ev3UWrP5wzeRLwWQ1paiIyT6JIK TvD9tPzYt1JSal0A2Dq7k/3QzFgvgC6fjU9m3Ewennji8c47+ulFFOC9X0X+pQsX V78sXVNKmUemtbfOvRyc =RNdx -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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[Bug 505938] New: Need to package MediaAttach.
by Red Hat Bugzilla 16 Dec '09

16 Dec '09

Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Need to package MediaAttach. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=505938 Summary: Need to package MediaAttach. Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: docs-requests AssignedTo: eric(a)christensenplace.us ReportedBy: eric(a)christensenplace.us QAContact: fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com CC: stickster(a)gmail.com Blocks: 504066 Classification: Fedora Description of problem: Need to package MediaAttach. SVN Head: http://code.zikula.org/mediaattach/browser/trunk/MediaAttach -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the QA contact for the bug.

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Fedora Docs Meeting Reminder
by Eric Christensen 16 Dec '09

16 Dec '09

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 REMINDER: There will be a Fedora Docs Meeting today at 0001 UTC. The agenda can be found at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting - -- - --Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJLKOI3AAoJEDbiLlqcYamxMV8P/ROx7ihJymHxg7wa9VSgkDRY B3m1IQpN3/edwEDdD1t5wYZDuwuOtqBOPb+EiYpBOQLwoA9TuRyoDV4UIo6any5Q C/Ma0BzFFCy+SrycB6xh+vwUkmFrxWcDMdZufoPuerHKNKeN3VOTgDDaLFmWyoYP +ohg2n718e/gtg55Unwb+oi7Bf46sZx3bEZapmaDzd7h9EHbHPU+CqdNNEJrCitk KCc5k12oxteG3lPAics6mv413YNGmy9z8OI5B4PAqDU1dIYJAUsIt73+KmMWdvmH eTHYodQcaveA8geLh+ZHUZ3v0YAOkCZVANO/BQzvd5/580Hoe/UXZb1BKQ/vQ9DJ YyDM22GFQn/c8uXgbZly+7bykVZ5i9QuQLPr3N6S2AsdMEU5aNijY0PIa0TYTD0i ZvrVyOKiiDMfUWwaEIHNXJXCqM5s1zNCSqwMBGlCFqBgFkyGAcsg+yu2Mvp0Xsz0 IoVI88pAJYLwHlEe1QAXFT/AxYX3TDERkNOT1SWad82Jz8Pn0fRVnGuNfOVe/7ks F7ELoYu2IK/b72vyv7EzH2XnvAcrQAtU8zLOjXD58YQrX8ED8Ixkd5KJ6dG7OD3w 7RntA5d/QI2rl3WwqC4lWkQvJyjX+0JdSFcQjVb/r3/C89eY0Rl18su8uDrNgjuo Xz0zIvbKV+l3k5LMh6uC =rFbP -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Schedule Review Time
by John Poelstra 15 Dec '09

15 Dec '09

Everyone who would like to (or should) participate in the schedule review... PLEASE indicate your availability ASAP. http://whenisgood.net/rkmr2e Thanks, John

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Re: Closing fedora-docs bugs
by Andrew Ross 15 Dec '09

15 Dec '09

----- "Ruediger Landmann" <r.landmann(a)redhat.com> wrote: > On 12/15/2009 01:24 PM, Andrew Ross wrote:p { margin: 0; } > > Part of my QE role has been to sniff out and close down ECS > > documentation bugs. There are currently 8 bugs under the > "fedora-docs" > > component that are in RELEASE_PENDING or ON_QE. [1] > > > > Would I be stepping on any toes by closing down these bugs (and > > similar ones in the future)? > > I think this would be awesome; thanks for stepping up to volunteer, > Andrew :) > > Cheers > > Rudi > As suggested, I won't close them immediately. Some kind of warning (reminder for jjmcd) sounds fine :) Will also look at patch / commit on other bugs. > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Andrew Ross Associate Quality Engineer Red Hat Asia Pacific Phone: 3514 8331 E-mail: anross(a)redhat.com GPG-KeyID 0xCF53DC64 "We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!" Vroomfondel in HHGTTG, Douglas Adams

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Re: Branch 'f12-tx' - po/ko.po (Action Required)
by noreply＠boxbe.com 15 Dec '09

15 Dec '09

Hello Transifex System User, This message serves as notification that you will not receive any more courtesy notices from our members for two days. Messages you have sent will remain in a lower priority queue for our member to review at their leisure. Future messages will be more likely to be viewed if you are on our member's priority Guest List. Thank you, krishna.tadepalli(a)gmail.com About Boxbe This courtesy notice is part of a free service to make email more reliable and useful. Boxbe (http://www.boxbe.com) uses your existing social network and that of your friends to keep your inbox clean and make sure you receive email from people who matter to you. Boxbe: Say Goodbye to Email Overload Visit http://www.boxbe.com/how-it-works?tc=1040577281_1239200604

1 0

Closing fedora-docs bugs
by Andrew Ross 14 Dec '09

14 Dec '09

Hi Everyone, Part of my QE role has been to sniff out and close down ECS documentation bugs. There are currently 8 bugs under the "fedora-docs" component that are in RELEASE_PENDING or ON_QE. [1] Would I be stepping on any toes by closing down these bugs (and similar ones in the future)? Thanks Andrew [1] Example: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=506344 -- Andrew Ross Associate Quality Engineer Red Hat Asia Pacific Phone: 3514 8331 E-mail: anross(a)redhat.com GPG-KeyID 0xCF53DC64 "We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!" Vroomfondel in HHGTTG, Douglas Adams

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F13 Docs Schedule Meeting
by Eric Christensen 14 Dec '09

14 Dec '09

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'd like to setup a meeting for early next week between the translators and the docs folks to work out the schedule for the F13 release. I was thinking Monday between 1800 UTC and 2000 UTC or between 2300 UTC and 0300 UTC (Tuesday). Would there be a time in there that we could meet? Thanks, Eric Docs Project Lead -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJLIEizAAoJEDbiLlqcYamxABsP/25XjHbUPX3fhzXdrY+ccWz5 wiSKE+BBHDF4XxSXFIjCUQKQFOiejrm6rUeLI/+vr2zyEeLsm6f6U5das5/iBZp/ TSjJ032AMWAFxKwB6/N2gHs4VYv4doCF/MKh7KN1xcs0Dtnb9sLqfQB9hoyLoV1L EVcRaQmVMlByN+MS5x1zSOofDuE8RjCHgJukBO0zZlstGuIkiEfZ9PH79SR5tV/5 MgBs2tNftdgkSvvcUv4m2vKqiFUY3jodrfgVQVh6heCvlXQzGvMY6pMn8yliXvJu /i7ZVqfLZISlY08/VHlhSdR1tkP0N/C68Zpv1n+6hqFUJTPqxbW8Fk/AnyMmvmSz 3uzF3u8jHU+PKiZ+9TOKcBZKI1CnKt+/1h/TzGQ3b4CHvCM+0XFFpM8gC6+l7XDu XPai/siANNP+g29ipkligE5LKVUYWU1us1C01ExZB8ggqZQ9fV3ohuPKW9kwsqZI oe7z6vQ2ZftRbzX0/OxsGix/ll9x654Efe/azkHPDr91irgpXCc4xkPXFPr2Dc+z mAF19SvdYev4h3EUHhuUVKTH5kk/hKR/wk6g8RGSRL0gv9PCY0yIbv36agyO4d86 +DG7jImKoUYkymaxF62zLqcedd6D/5fRFuUnAc4LK2SNpE4oqqbfuKaaih6tNXEy xX6ZWHR/Ckqmxr6Zp1Ih =W8Cl -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Addressing Yelp Concerns
by Shaun McCance 14 Dec '09

14 Dec '09

Hi all, I'd like to address the Yelp concerns outlined here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop_Documentation_Presentation_Options My comments are generally geared towards Yelp 3.0, which will be released with Gnome 3.0 in September 2010. The design of Yelp 3.0 is geared more towards individual documents, focusing less on the library of installed documents. It will be able to locate and read help documents in DocBook, Mallard, or HTML. It will also continue to be able to read man and info, though I view these as bonus features, and not central to the design of Yelp. I do want to make sure that multiple-page HTML documents are handled well in Yelp. So even if you find that letting Yelp render DocBook on the fly doesn't work for you, you may still be able to use Yelp with pre-built HTML. The front page of Yelp will be the Desktop Help ("User Guide"), which will be a Mallard document. Mallard is a new format for topic-oriented help. It has many advantages (which I'll gladly talk your ear off about), but the primary selling point is that it's designed around the idea that downstream distributors will extend and modify upstream documents. I hope the Fedora team will take advantage of this and extend Gnome's Desktop Help to better assist users. That said, I understand that many of the documents that you're developing and packaging aren't typical desktop or application help files, and that you may have special requirements to fit your users' expectations. My goal is to help you help your users. I hope Yelp will be useful, but if it's not the right fit, then do what's best for your users. Your users trump my ego any day. Enough yakking. * Fedora documents are found in Help, alongside Gnome documents, even though these are stand-alone documents generally not coupled to any particular application and are therefore a different kind of documentation from what's generally provided in help and what users therefore expect to find there. Yelp is moving away from the focus on all installed documents, although this will still be available. Some clever categorization could help this. There is, of course, nothing that precludes you from continuing to put links in the application menu to documents that are displayed in Yelp. * Yelp has some size limitations. At this time it is not entirely clear whether this is a limitation on some specific item such as index entries or an absolute document size limitation. There are no real size limitations, except possibly the recursion limits in libxml2, although I doubt you're hitting those. This is probably just a symptom of the speed issue below. * Since yelp handles rendering, there is no control over document style. I generally view this as an advantage. Fiddling with design is not something authors should spend their time on. When they do, they often create something blingier, but decidedly less readable. That said, I understand the desire to brand a set of documents. I'm entirely open to having some sort of XSLT "themes" that can be installed and referenced by documents. It's something I've toyed with in the past. But nobody's expressed interest before, so it never became a priority. * Yelp does not produce document indices when requested. True, although that doesn't mean it couldn't. That's clearly an important feature for Fedora, so I can bump it up on the priority list. * Yelp can be slow. For larger documents, very slow. Breaking the document into multiple files does not help. DocBook is an inherently single-file format. I assume this is referring to using SYSTEM entities or XInclude to slurp other files in. All of that is handled by libxml2. As far as Yelp is concerned, it's reading one big file. So when I first took over Yelp, I managed to get a lot of very big performance improvements in. Then I took a hiatus. Some of my improvements got lost, and a few I had planned never got done. We can make Yelp noticeably faster. I know where most of the bottlenecks are. Obviously, though, there's no way on-the-fly transformation will ever be as fast as reading an HTML file. It's a question of what's fast enough. * Yelp does not display the Publican-produced revision history. This I can address, even in the 2.30 timeframe if you want. Basically, Yelp's interpretation of DocBook revision history is a product of the way Sun was using it to satisfy, to the letter, the requirements of the GFDL. It's a quirky legacy behavior, and we can't throw it away entirely, but we can adapt to what Publican is doing. * Publican cannot currently package multiple languages, and at this time, it appears it will not address yelp packaging in the future. Packaging a document for Yelp 3.0 is easy. You just have to put it in a location Yelp understands. No ScrollKeeper or any registration procedures. If Publican can't change its installation directory, Yelp may be able to adapt to it. * Yelp addresses only Gnome and does not help other desktops. One of the big things happening in Yelp 3.0 is that we're splitting the transformation core into a separate library, libyelp. The XFCE team has already expressed an interest in building their own help viewer on top of libyelp. Of course, I understand that KDE is important. I've been talking to the KDE team, and I hope we can finally come to a consensus on a common help system. That way you can just install your documents to a common location, and Gnome, KDE, and XFCE would all pick it up. * All languages are installed, whether or not needed. The installed size in all languages for our longer documents is hundreds of megabytes. I don't see how this has anything to do with Yelp. This is a matter of how you package your files. Are those pesky OMF files keeping you from doing language packs properly? I'm fairly certain there's nothing in the 3.0 designs that will force this. The Ubuntu team is also interested in doing language packs for documentation, so I want to get this right. * Package maintenance has a high overhead; the package maintainer must update the package any time any translation team needs to make a correction or update. Again, I'm not sure what this has to do with Yelp. Please let me know what Yelp can do better to help you here. * Packages for larger documents may be hundreds of megabytes. Each language may (should) have localised images. Images can take up substantial space. Limiting images is not an option as images are useful for various aspects of learning and documentation. Right, so this is the language pack thing again. I will say that one of the nice things in Yelp 3.0 is that it looks up everything according to a path, and can fall back to content elsewhere in the path. This includes images. So if you have both a "C" version and a localized version of a document, and you have non-localized images (common for including icons in documentation), you don't need to install those images with the localized document. I'm also working on allowing the XML files to be compressed on disk. This doesn't help the package size, but it does help the install size of the package. In the end, though, if you have huge documents with lots of translations, you probably want to do some sort of language packs. I think this is mostly a packaging and distribution problem, so the ball's in your court. But I want to make sure that Yelp isn't putting up extra roadblocks, so please let me know if it's making this difficult. Thanks for your time; I know this email was long. And thanks to everybody who's been bringing these concerns to my attention. I'm trying to be more involved with downstream, but there's a lot to keep up with. -- Shaun

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RFC: Unetbootin in Install-Guide
by David Nalley 13 Dec '09

13 Dec '09

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi All: We've had somewhat competing bugs (links below) filed around Unetbootin. Originally we referenced Unetbootin, and mentioned that we didn't ship it in Fedora, which is now incorrect, and the cause of the the first bug that was filed. Here was original: UNetbootin is a free and open-source graphical tool that can create live USB media from live image files on computers that use a wide range of different Linux distributions. The Fedora Project does not distribute UNetbootin — it is available from http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/. Refer to that website for a complete description of the tool and instructions on how to use it. Here is the current paragraph: UNetbootin is a free and open-source graphical tool that can create live USB media from live image files on computers that use a wide range of different Linux distributions. Refer to the documentation provided with UNetbootin for more information on how to use it. Ricky has submitted a patch that essentially strips mention of Unetbootin from the install guide. Our current documentation is pretty sparse with regards to Unetbootin. Sooooo, how do we want to handle Unetbootin in our documentation. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=540954 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=545577 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.10) iEYEARECAAYFAkskoAkACgkQkZOYj+cNI1dF8wCcCpWWyr7ptMMLT5G03VXjNMDB 7j0An0Tlgb9rddR8c3vUv/XIL7HRYKhE =yXQC -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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PackageKit note is outdated
by Rahul Sundaram 11 Dec '09

11 Dec '09

Hi, Why hasn't this note been dropped yet? http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f12/en-US/html/sect-Release_Not… Rahul

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REMINDER: Updates for docs.fp.o NLT 0600 UTC
by Eric Christensen 11 Dec '09

11 Dec '09

Just a reminder, if you have any updates to any guides on docs.fp.o please make sure it is uploaded to CVS no later than 0600 UTC. CVS will be down for the weekend and no updates can occur. --Eric

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Re: Docs Installation Guide - Submission and Download problem
by Paul W. Frields 09 Dec '09

09 Dec '09

On Fri, Dec 04, 2009 at 10:51:59AM +0200, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > 2009/12/3 Ruediger Landmann <r.landmann(a)redhat.com>: > > On 12/02/2009 05:47 PM, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > >> > >> Rudi, you could clear the cache and refresh it. > >> > > > > Really? How do I do that? I'd thought that a button like that would be useful for the > > maintainer of a project > > This button is available on the web interface on component pages for > maintainers. > > > , not least of which because changes to a POT in the repo don't automatically > > trigger a refresh (of course!) while submissions of updated POs do. > > This functionality has been available in Transifex for a while, it's > just that Fedora is still running an old (and unmaintained) version. Diego posted the summary of what needs to be done here: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1455#comment:10 In short, we need a few people to step up and help with the process Diego posted. We already do have a L10n Admin group[1] that should be overseeing and managing this process, to ensure a successful rollout for translators. Their charter is to maintain the infrastructure for translators, and this clearly falls into that area. I've heard from two of the people in that group that they can't do all this work themselves, but haven't heard from Ankit or Asgeir about it. What I would suggest is that Diego should help with bullet #4 on that list, as it probably requires the greatest degree of specific technical knowledge, in this case a database upgrade. The rest of the work on that ticket could likely be done entirely by the remainder of the team, maybe with limited input from Diego. It would be helpful for Asgeir or Ankit to help manage this set of tasks in collaboration with Diego, who has appropriate package access. (I'm cc'ing Ignacio directly as well, so he can add appropriate CVS access for any other people who are willing to help maintain the EL-5 package used on our Infrastructure.) Without help, it's doubtful there will be a new Transifex rolled out, and that means some of the problems people are experiencing will continue, even though they're already fixed upstream. I'm cc'ing the docs, devel, and infrastructure lists to see if any of the people in areas well served by translators are willing to help see this project through. It's time to pull together, guys, and see if we can help the translators who give so much across the whole Fedora Project. * * * [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Tools#Website -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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Docs Meeting 2009-12-10 Summary
by Eric Christensen 09 Dec '09

09 Dec '09

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 =================================================================================================== #fedora-meeting: Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings =================================================================================================== Meeting started by Sparks at 00:00:00 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-12-10/fedora-meeting.2… . Meeting summary - --------------- * Roll Call (Sparks, 00:00:07) * Release Notes (Sparks, 00:05:00) * Status on CMS (Zikula) (Sparks, 00:22:54) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status (Sparks, 00:23:00) * Guide Status (Sparks, 00:27:53) * New Guides (Sparks, 00:34:06) * F13 Schedule (Sparks, 00:37:48) * ACTION: Sparks to send a message to L10N and Logistics about a docs planning meeting for early next week (Sparks, 00:56:45) * ACTION: jjmcd to review poelcat's schedule and come up with a recommendation before the meeting (Sparks, 00:57:26) * Other business (Sparks, 00:58:22) Meeting ended at 00:59:58 UTC. Action Items - ------------ * Sparks to send a message to L10N and Logistics about a docs planning meeting for early next week * jjmcd to review poelcat's schedule and come up with a recommendation before the meeting Action Items, by person - ----------------------- * jjmcd * jjmcd to review poelcat's schedule and come up with a recommendation before the meeting * Sparks * Sparks to send a message to L10N and Logistics about a docs planning meeting for early next week * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) - --------------------------- * Sparks (104) * jjmcd (82) * radsy (17) * zodbot (3) * buggbot (2) * Darkedge (2) * ianweller (1) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJLIEj+AAoJEDbiLlqcYamxKUAP/iTJuyDWxhJlzABFqs5HZduZ JBHCEIw4eiPyiZO+5jZ4nvIWgBi693uBT0prW26u7502g7/FWP/z7B4h7OI8zLYm 3sN2MZOwgkPKf0XS9EQKbuHHSn6klIumvaWdFfC8qXgJuNp4yhfbQkj0bv7IrQaI AqO0dfhJ9G9kKqGIh9g/Qr02REHYPSFQyaGim0f+yCxbG+KR8Z92GNXQQPqZoPYx h2WVokDXFM/hWUV4MjpOnABHj/3m6ku8hTYoOM2oiRWC/mkFwa0Bk4Di38ARDI1Y juvAwK1RO8jHbt2TQq8XETJBuFv26tf2OwlDHUH544TILgj199JBIopsAVUrIMkT TIlLfkcIX0rDbA9eyiOLgasOHUo9CxBbWxj0huGT7QqqocMyMAq8dFTokrZh/ZZ9 0C2dJW1K2sySEHLHbYBlJY0lZgGZi933BNa0qrkULt1IaOBb4dsC/QV6awEu6AWl 3B+x59bS64fCiDC8fHnqkYD3fWzCTSx+eF075rhDlI1UfB7P3oztVucv2GIrC0wu FzGDu0ZMmC/RcSVZn+tgu92LN/Rt7rnnrTk66xxKA3J7SNpCxjqE7FFZEYxhkjVr nia5gfDXTQuLOB2bcUMCRD/S6o5hAYpPysj2i89lW3Le1o+bqKBY1F9IFf/kNjQC nwL2Wuz0sRq70tfsyumB =PNfm -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Docs Meeting 2009-12-10 IRC log
by Eric Christensen 09 Dec '09

09 Dec '09

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 00:00:00 <Sparks> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:00:00 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Dec 10 00:00:00 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:00:00 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:00:07 <Sparks> #topic Roll Call 00:00:08 * Sparks 00:00:14 * Sparks 00:00:27 * jjmcd . 00:00:55 * radsy . 00:02:56 * Sparks gives everyone a few more minutes to arrive. 00:03:37 <radsy> rudi not in the office yet 00:04:06 <Sparks> slacker 00:04:55 <Sparks> Okay, let's get started. 00:05:00 <Sparks> #topic Release Notes 00:05:09 <Sparks> Discussion of Yelp vs. HTML 00:05:30 <Sparks> jjmcd: Anything else on this? 00:05:42 <jjmcd> bah 00:05:46 <jjmcd> wrong window 00:05:53 <jjmcd> we've always done it that way 00:06:11 <jjmcd> To tell the truth, that is probably the largest reason we are still using yelp 00:06:26 <jjmcd> Now, it does put our release notes a little more up front 00:06:52 <jjmcd> And now that we have a way to select language for html, yelp loses a big advantage it had 00:06:56 <Sparks> I wonder if people read stuff that is on their system or if they read it online. 00:07:07 <jjmcd> I dunno 00:07:16 * Sparks would really like to get limesurvey reviewed so he could answer some of these questions. 00:07:38 <jjmcd> We used to put a ton of stuff in /usr/share/doc with no links or anything, so it seems pretty unlikely that someone would find it 00:07:44 <Sparks> Yes 00:07:47 <Sparks> which is not good. 00:08:15 <jjmcd> Although, I guess in the distant past I would rummage around to see what is there ... don't know how many others do that tho 00:08:52 <jjmcd> radsy, FYI, I sent Sparks a prog to package a multilang publican html 00:08:55 <Sparks> I'm against blindly putting documentation on someone's computer and not linking to it from the GUI somehow 00:09:12 <jjmcd> Well, not everyone is such a huge fan of the gui 00:09:25 <jjmcd> ANd EVERY application has unlinked dox in /usr/share/doc 00:09:35 <jjmcd> SO you do know where to look 00:09:37 <jjmcd> or should 00:09:50 <Sparks> Well, if you aren't using a gui then you already know your way around /usr 00:10:01 <jjmcd> I would hate to have a menu item for every sub of /usr/share/doc and /usr/share/doc/HTML 00:10:16 <jjmcd> There are literally thousands of them 00:10:21 <Sparks> I'm talking about OUR documentation 00:10:37 <jjmcd> So knowing where they are is almost as good as having a menu choice, and less clutter 00:10:40 <jjmcd> Well, yeah 00:10:48 <jjmcd> I like having RN on the menu 00:11:01 <Sparks> It would be a horrible experience for someone to install the admin guide and then have it not show up on the desktop somewhere 00:11:30 <jjmcd> I dunno, I install things I don't expect to see on the desktop 00:11:36 <Sparks> Well, I have mixed feelings about Yelp versus HTML 00:11:54 <jjmcd> Yeah, there's a little to be said fo each 00:11:58 <Sparks> Yelp is good at what it does... but only does it for one of our desktops 00:12:25 <jjmcd> No reason not to run yelp from kde tho. We just don't put the link there 00:12:59 <jjmcd> Altho maybe it pulls in a lot of crap like every KDE app does on a gnome system 00:13:18 <Sparks> yeah 00:13:34 <Sparks> Well, I hope to see some promise in the March meeting... if that happens 00:13:40 <jjmcd> It would be good if rudi was here 00:14:22 <jjmcd> That would really be good. But even assuming it is all rebecca at sunnybrook farms, there are still advantages to html 00:14:45 <jjmcd> One prob w/yelp is it reads all the xml files when you open the doc 00:15:08 <jjmcd> It displays the first file before it is done, but on a big doc, it keeps the cpu pinned for a long time 00:15:47 <Sparks> I think that was something that was going to be remedied 00:16:17 <jjmcd> Well, it might help, but it also doesn't do the index, which is now pretty important on release notes 00:16:49 <jjmcd> Because the yum groups make no sense, that is the only way you can find things 00:17:09 <Sparks> Have we filed bugs upstream for all these problems? 00:17:45 <jjmcd> I've filed bugs on Fedora for those apps, but not upstream. I assume that is the maintainer's role 00:18:34 <Sparks> Okay. As long as we' 00:18:48 <Sparks> they haven't been filed... :) 00:19:47 <Sparks> Okay, anything else on this topic? 00:20:01 <jjmcd> I did update the doc on that packaging app a couple times on fedorapeople dunno if you saw that 00:20:15 <jjmcd> added some pictures to hopefully make a little more sense 00:20:44 <Sparks> cool. I haven't had a chance to surf over there lately. 00:21:08 <jjmcd> I need to find some guides to play with 00:21:20 <jjmcd> but most either don't build or have no translations 00:22:34 <Sparks> Yeah 00:22:49 <Sparks> Okay, moving on... 00:22:54 <Sparks> #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) 00:23:00 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status 00:23:20 <Sparks> Apparently a lot of work was completed at FUDCon. 00:23:31 * Sparks wishes ke4qqq could be here tonight. 00:23:52 <Sparks> I finally got menutree squared away and pushed. 00:24:10 <Sparks> But it was a little premature as ke4qqq hasn't gotten zikula 1.2 out the door, yet. Opps. 00:24:19 <radsy> is there a live demo of this somewhere still? 00:24:46 <Sparks> I'm working MediaAttach, though, and am planning on yanking out the bad bits and packaging the rest. We can see, then, if it breaks. 00:24:56 <Sparks> radsy: mchua I think has one up for Insight. 00:26:52 <Sparks> Anyone have any questions? 00:27:47 <Sparks> Okay, moving on... 00:27:53 <Sparks> #topic Guide Status 00:28:00 <jjmcd> what happened to 543540 00:28:05 <Sparks> Anyone have any guides they want to discuss? 00:28:11 <Sparks> .bug 543540 00:28:12 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=543540 medium, low, - ---, rlandman, ASSIGNED, Usability of http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ is poor 00:28:12 <zodbot> Sparks: Bug 543540 Usability of http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ is poor - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=543540 00:28:14 <buggbot> Bug 543540: medium, low, ---, rlandman, ASSIGNED, Usability of http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ is poor 00:28:34 <jjmcd> was on the schedule b4 zik only reason i asked 00:28:43 <Sparks> jjmcd: I thought that was from last week so I just removed it. 00:28:52 <jjmcd> ah,ok 00:29:06 <radsy> it's likely to change again before zikula? 00:29:12 <Sparks> jjmcd: Unless you have something further on it. I don't really see a resolution to it until Zikula is fielded. 00:29:29 <jjmcd> I see Paul wanted us to discuss the sked but that will take some time before we can have a meaningful discussion 00:29:38 <radsy> i find it pretty usable as it is 00:29:46 <jjmcd> I expect zikula won't help 00:29:49 <Sparks> I find it MUCH more useable . 00:30:20 <jjmcd> Altho, I like the original idea of the initial single dropdown for a language 00:31:16 <radsy> imo the focus should be on getting zikula up instead of another re-design 00:31:38 <radsy> re-arranging deck chairs... 00:31:42 <jjmcd> I tend to agree, but if anything, zikula will make that harder 00:32:18 <jjmcd> The problem is what it should look like. At best Zikula will be equivalent to raw php. More likely it will be a constraint 00:32:54 <jjmcd> So I'm not so sure the redesign is wasted. Although, having Zikula in hand may avoid some dead ends 00:33:08 <Sparks> I think we should get some of the design folks in on this dicussion once we get Zikula up and running 00:33:23 <jjmcd> Yes, I think that is the best plan 00:33:24 <Sparks> Right now we don't have the base setup to build on 00:33:43 <Sparks> Okay, any guide issues? 00:33:45 <jjmcd> Assuming we will EVER see Zikula up and running 00:34:06 <Sparks> #topic New Guides 00:34:12 <Sparks> Any new guides coming out>? 00:34:32 <jjmcd> I made a little more headway on ARG 00:34:37 <Sparks> ARG? 00:34:38 <jjmcd> OH, yes 00:34:39 <Sparks> Oh 00:34:44 <Sparks> Amateur Radio Guide 00:34:50 <jjmcd> convert -alpha on 00:34:58 <jjmcd> Makes the colors right in pdf 00:35:04 <Sparks> cool 00:35:12 <radsy> i'm kicking around the idea of a solaris -> fedora/rhel sysadmin/migration guide 00:35:31 <radsy> just to highlight differences 00:35:59 <Sparks> radsy: You getting this from the new Sun Admin -> RHCE class I saw today? 00:36:06 <radsy> but RHEL duties for already existing stuff are taking a lot of my time right now 00:36:12 <radsy> no Sparks? 00:36:18 <Sparks> ha 00:36:34 <Sparks> Yeah, there's a new Sun admin -> RHCE class out there... 00:36:49 <radsy> damn it, beaten ;) 00:37:01 * Sparks hasn't touched a lot of Solaris boxes lately. 00:37:23 <Sparks> Okay... moving onward... 00:37:23 <jjmcd> Didn't that run on PDP-4's or something? 00:37:26 <radsy> i used to admin it, still use it at home 00:37:48 <Sparks> #topic F13 Schedule 00:38:08 <Sparks> Okay... I think we need to come up with a slightly different plan that the F12 release 00:38:46 <Sparks> I didn't like the devel -> translation freeze -> devel - -> wash, rinse, repeat 00:39:02 <Sparks> We should be constantly pushing pot files 00:39:04 <Sparks> IMO 00:39:24 <radsy> has there been any movement on a way to get breaking info from devs more easily, ie. lessons learned from the F12/PackageKit fiasco? 00:39:34 <jjmcd> How does L10N feel about that 00:39:34 <Sparks> If we have thousands of lines of text that need to be translated we shouldn't be dumping it on the translators for a week 00:40:01 <Sparks> jjmcd: Not sure... but if we get a paragraph done now why not? 00:40:25 <Sparks> radsy: Not sure. 00:40:32 <jjmcd> Well, they like to see those percentages. Might be a disincentive to have a moving target 00:41:02 <Sparks> I said it last release and didn't really follow through but we really need to have a drop dead date to get all the text in. 00:41:32 <jjmcd> radsy, one problem is that people have conversations in groups and assume everyone else is read in 00:41:36 <Sparks> You knew these changes were happening months ago, you shouldn't come running up to use three hours before the release with it 00:42:07 <jjmcd> And really, probably everything gets discusses on dev-list, but who can wade through all the crap 00:42:18 <Sparks> jjmcd: I think transifex 0.7 will help alot. Translations will be broken down by chapter... 00:42:47 <jjmcd> And that will come along how long after zikula? 00:42:50 <Sparks> If you know something is changing you should write up a quick paragraph and submit a ticket on it. simple as that. 00:43:06 * jjmcd has a problem depending on vaporware 00:43:07 <Sparks> WTHK 00:43:09 <radsy> it might only take someone to maintain some sort of changelog of significant changes from last release 00:43:33 <jjmcd> The feature list is supposed to be that 00:44:10 <jjmcd> And different people have different perceptions of "significant" 00:44:25 <Sparks> maybe we should define significant 00:44:39 <jjmcd> The PackageKit thing was just a minor change to a policy, no code changed at all 00:44:59 <Sparks> a minor change with big implications 00:45:17 <jjmcd> Depends on your perspective 00:45:50 <Sparks> I'm pretty sure everyone was in agreement that it had big implications 00:46:11 <jjmcd> A change to fldigi might be a real big deal to me, but to most people? 00:46:38 <jjmcd> We look at changes to MySQL as a big deal, but in reality, how many people actually use it? 00:46:54 <Sparks> Who's to say that the fldigi change shouldn't end up in the RN? 00:47:05 <jjmcd> Well, yeah. 00:47:33 <jjmcd> It's always a judgement call as to what is significant, tho, and depending on where you are sitting, things change a lot 00:47:45 <Darkedge> Any chance of someone doing an RPM Packages lesson? 00:48:27 <jjmcd> Whatever happened to the classroom? I havent heard anything lately 00:48:30 <Sparks> jjmcd: So we should include as much stuff as we can. 00:48:47 <radsy> Darkedge, http://docs.fedoraproject.org/drafts/rpm-guide-en/ ? 00:48:48 <jjmcd> Except that make it hard to find anything and pisses off the translators 00:48:51 <Sparks> jjmcd: We have a space for the Amateur Radio beat writer. 00:49:05 <jjmcd> yep 00:49:28 <jjmcd> And we have a growing ham community in fedora, too 00:49:37 <Sparks> Well... this has gone way off topic. 00:49:41 <Darkedge> radsy: I just don't find that as good as hanging in #fedora-classroom because if I don't understAND something, What am I to do? 00:50:06 <Sparks> Darkedge: #fedora-devel is a good place to ask questions 00:50:29 <jjmcd> There have been some RPM classes in the past, but really, the thing to do is to make a couple of packages 00:50:30 <Sparks> So my thought is that we push pot files early and often 00:50:49 <Sparks> We push our documentation early and often 00:50:50 <jjmcd> We probably should chat with Bimitris about that 00:50:58 <jjmcd> Dimitris - damn typing 00:51:05 <Sparks> we shouldn't be waiting for the very last second to get all this done 00:51:14 <Sparks> which leads to going over a deadline 00:51:25 <jjmcd> Well, that wasn't our problem this time 00:51:34 * ianweller is kinda halfway here 00:51:45 <jjmcd> Somehow our schedule had us making pots and rpms on the same day 00:51:50 <radsy> sorry Darkedge - I had no idea that channel existed. 00:52:05 <jjmcd> ANd that day was two weeks too late 00:52:34 <jjmcd> SO yeah, I need to have a long hard look at John's schedule, and keep looking at it 00:52:37 <Sparks> yes 00:53:02 <Sparks> I'd really like to pull in the L10N folks and really talk about options. 00:53:22 <Sparks> If they think we can't change and it is what it is... then they won't know any different 00:53:46 <Sparks> But I don't like it when groups start pulling the translations out of transifex so no one can use them. 00:53:52 <jjmcd> Yes, that would be good. Should have thought of this a couple weeks ago so someone could have sat down at FUDcon, I think glezos was tere 00:54:14 <jjmcd> Yeah, that was kinda pissy 00:54:18 * Sparks ponders the ability to have a gathering in about three months 00:54:26 <jjmcd> But you know ... French 00:54:35 <Sparks> *snicker* 00:55:29 <Sparks> Anyway, lets have a break-off meeting early next week to discuss the schedule. 00:55:30 <jjmcd> I think we SHOULD let L10N know they are getting Publican pots ofr F13. If Tfx can't deal with them then they can deal with the conversions 00:55:33 <Sparks> poelcat: ^^^ 00:55:45 <jjmcd> Might light a fire under the 0.7 effort 00:55:46 <Sparks> I agree 00:56:45 <Sparks> #action Sparks to send a message to L10N and Logistics about a docs planning meeting for early next week 00:57:26 <Sparks> #action jjmcd to review poelcat's schedule and come up with a recommendation before the meeting 00:57:34 <Sparks> Okay, anything else on the F13 schedule? 00:57:36 <jjmcd> roger that 00:57:49 <Sparks> jjmcd: Sanity check... :) 00:58:16 <Sparks> Okay, moving on... 00:58:22 <Sparks> #topic Other business 00:58:25 <Sparks> Anyone have anything else? 00:59:10 <Sparks> Anything at all? 00:59:55 <Sparks> Okay... thanks for coming out everyone! 00:59:58 <Sparks> #endmeeting -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJLIEjiAAoJEDbiLlqcYamxQHcP/0N68GNtH9uvTzOEwDZ9BmgC xVkgiSRj6vobVquAPxM93MoRNnxjbMvUZVrKimClMoxeFykjpTnK9qqJmkPOjTcF QMS7gWhgQQUanNXfvV51Ay/s/X5pvughPOT0RxOGHhiC3fqrPbO07hgzAoBlxab7 QnsWm6CPbbse2h35UcBMEkw6VqmuK+hXlRKbnRaYm92/Wx980nv8/1fy5QgOblOw c6idBOCZbCZ0wvkJIVvbvtFq2WYfabxOxGntwbMXnk2Di2MUA683KGj6RG5FyqWD SMkcDumneWTa9t+WDHapln+8UY8tYgVARKUpH+494uK8vg724tN6FjyL/5YOxswv ehUnzn/++r54Xk7jZKN9p1J5sUCvAwLBNPlT6vYt3qVudXk74EPg7TfQ0eMBgTjn iG+OhDtORlBGl827uxTIj2JQmZWB6jBnOMEoFmTTNktxPMkN4SsOu0+7bBN1jCuF ioTykU6pZN7u4gmYUPPsuCLlmKUBoK7R7A2TQ7JOFtM1m17BYf6bOkiolO/o3X6c j7Fm2pDNUzM23ZMgOLfRLzXhi8kfTuysaNdh/YVsz/8aQsQjRk6GxuS306EbTwp/ jrgivxnd2tASb5tzldeFtEuYYNpexA/54LoHv7/qdyYVTvE89fJKIy/lxa8xGz13 QcTeJajD+xacj19Xv5JN =otlg -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Fedora Docs Meeting Reminder
by Eric Christensen 09 Dec '09

09 Dec '09

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 REMINDER: There will be a Fedora Docs Meeting today at 0001 UTC. The agenda can be found at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJLICmMAAoJEDbiLlqcYamxJGkP/REhAA4GyFHlc6S2LTb1gAOJ x8JHaI+70GXLyyTlaCRGxaJ7RaHEz9tekYPBZDu7zQccrh6vMC3Y4P0ZJb6JDY/q pzTgJf9Zpc77B2GR7/mPaUbKoeN0Tsa5trS1On9iylLLLSKV3SeTICPzhpGiMlZo znYyxVbqnlpVSkSlnIopsu1yXLH2RDXteSu/WsuXks8xokdpXBcoVjQ586E3l+fj sDjQFxwr/CQTaBKWzT7nEHd2hEs4HmIXDzxzuOPOvjTjK2DzZ7KjoJ3U7KUbQanD hNZ/rwAz34PptZxnBKEayg+a1QAWNRXPrLn7BHWqPVDiTeTG0e5LXvKGV55puLf4 5195jGPVSSGY+6XGo9Ykg9IuPBvfMx33uqx6+TKL+n6FEvWcBX2TFu7vlweoZx+T WBruRyaISx/EoR/h8lAF/6VF+wEF3+O6LncZoc1tM79uEDplhXSlV14f+IEKSx7+ DlsswZxQruExO4/nFCn8t/gYHxHV7B9mEPQWDXlPW5pcSEAGn/OiPQegFY454oZ4 VfxJklGweWuAp44MpEhvCPfrx4EgmiO5/doaJ7GtHy+r7+OgdJ1LgDNh66oWakjs 4G781nU/iYoL/Y+jTrQMxS8bQO7jovrHz8qrpEvHoqXfvU+95Kx7t2CtEO+zDeYG LoJUQtxmmHhChB7Gessm =oYV/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Need feedback on Fedora 13 schedule
by John Poelstra 09 Dec '09

09 Dec '09

Hi, http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13-draft/f-13-docs-tasks.html I am still in need of feedback on the documentation schedule for Fedora 13 and so far I have not heard from anyone. I also asked on IRC today and didn't get a response. I already have feedback from the translation team, but I can't do anything with it until I know the documentation schedule is good. Can someone let me know what your plans/timeline are for reviewing the drafted Fedora 13 schedule? I know there are parts of it that are definitely wrong, but I don't want to invest lots of time guessing at the fixes if you plan to make other significant changes. Thanks, John

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[Bug 503780] New: Fedora 12 Release BLOCKER
by Red Hat Bugzilla 09 Dec '09

09 Dec '09

Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Fedora 12 Release BLOCKER https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=503780 Summary: Fedora 12 Release BLOCKER Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: eric(a)christensenplace.us ReportedBy: eric(a)christensenplace.us QAContact: kwade(a)redhat.com CC: fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com Classification: Fedora Use this bug to show that a particular bug is blocking your guide/document from being released in time for Fedora 12. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

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bug reports considered good for our health
by Karsten Wade 08 Dec '09

08 Dec '09

I'm really pleased at the quantity _and_ quality of bug reports coming in for Fedora 12 documentation. (I seem to be on a number of QA checks for various guides, which I'm glad about.) We should run the statistics with bugzilla, but I'm getting a gut feeling about this release based on what I've seen so far. Anyone else notice this? * Overall, more bugs across a few main documents (Installation Guide, Release Notes) and a few others (IIRC). This means: * More people are reading the content; * They care enough to file bugs; * Bug reports are a needed part of improving open content, it's the open source way; * Bug reports are a sign of a healthy and engaged community. * The quality of the bug reports is up. They are mostly associated with the correct component, are clear in what they find wrong, and offer solutions and fixes. In fact, just now I saw a bug report[1] that included a patch, which prompted me to write this email. We've received a few bugs in translations, including correction suggestions. * The component owners have been highly responsive. The recent improvements around bugzilla process, bug clean-up, and bug maintenance are showing quality and attention from this team. You are making Fedora Docs look really good! Considering that we have more than doubled the number of guides for the release, with l10n to match, I reckon we actually have _fewer_ bugs per guide. If anyone cares to know what our real health statistics are around bug reports, I could get together with you and any others in IRC for a few hours and draw what we need from bugzilla. - Karsten [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=545577 -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41

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Fedora 13 Alpha Release Notes
by Rahul Sundaram 07 Dec '09

07 Dec '09

Hi I have put up a very early draft at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_13_Alpha_release_notes Please add important changes to the release notes. This would include new features, notable changes in behavior from the previous release, things that need explicit testing and any known issues. Rahul

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System Outage this weekend
by Eric Christensen 07 Dec '09

07 Dec '09

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Mike sent out a message[1] last week discussing the system outage of many Fedora systems this coming weekend. While it appears that docs.fp.o will remain up during this evolution, CVS and the wiki will not. So if anyone is working on any documentation that needs to get pushed for the weekend you should have it uploaded to CVS no later than 0600 UTC on 12 Dec 2009. [1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2009-December/msg00000… - --Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAksdO9oACgkQfQTSQL0MFMEE8gCgsYXvH5VQoSP9jUAiQ0pgDkWs YoIAoI16BkGEeTBKOjmpsUEyw3QQaxmo =O7bC -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Zikula hackfest details
by Mel Chua 06 Dec '09

06 Dec '09

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula_hackfest If you're joining us online, look in #fedora-mktg for pcalarco (Pascal), itbegins (Simon) or mchua (myself) and we'll get you started. If you're joining us in person, head to room 4 in the SEQ building - we'll be there all day. Today's goal: get Fedora Insight up on staging and migrate FWN's workflow to it. Hoo-yah! --Mel

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Zikula hackfest gameplan
by Mel Chua 05 Dec '09

05 Dec '09

Our gameplan for the next two days: everything is at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula_hackfest. Please ask questions, point out holes, etc. - we literally *just* came up with this. This is also where you can sign up to help. (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula_hackfest#Who.27s_coming) I think that Sparks and ke4qqq were planning on spending some time with us, which would be *awesome* - and that mmcgrath will be dropping by at the end of both days to check in - but I'm not sure what people's plans actually are, so I just took a guess for me/Simon/Pascal to start. (Simon, Pascal, feel free to edit this to something more correct and/or preferential....) I defaulted to #fedora-mktg as our IRC channel for the day, because I know we're going to have remote participants, but would be glad to move it to a more neutral place if there's a better location for this (if #fedora-logistics were populated, I'd do it there). Comments? Thoughts? Halp? Yay! We'll keep you updated. --Mel

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Re: Zikula hackfest gameplan
by Mel Chua 05 Dec '09

05 Dec '09

> Our gameplan for the next two days: everything is at > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula_hackfest. And I've blogged it here: http://blog.melchua.com/2009/12/05/fudcon-zikula-hackfest-the-gameplan/ Hope to see folks online or in person tomorrow! More hackfestin' details coming when we have them. --Mel

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Simon's FUDCon zikula session notes
by Mel Chua 05 Dec '09

05 Dec '09

Simon Birtwistle's talk, just completed, on zikula - a CMS that's going to be used by Docs and Marketing and News (in various ways for each). It was awesomeness, and the crowd was fun. http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fudcon-room-2/2009-12-05/fudcon-room-2.200… Max and I had this transcribing-tag-team-thing going on here, so the full logs are pretty complete (WOO! LOGS!) - we ended with a game plan for the hackfest on Sunday and Monday, which I'll post shortly. --Mel

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Fedora 13 Draft Schedule
by John Poelstra 03 Dec '09

03 Dec '09

Greetings, Below are some links to the schedule I've drafted for Fedora 13. Most of it is automatically generated based on how we built the Fedora 12 schedule. Here are a few different views: http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13-draft/f-13-docs-tasks.html http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13-draft/f-13-docs-and-trans-t… In some cases the tasks may not line up correctly for Fedora 13 which I'll need to know about. In others you may want to make adjustments based on how things went during Fedora 12. That is perfectly fine too :) I would like to review this in person at FUDCon on Sunday (2009-12-06) during one of the hackfest sessions. In the meantime feel free to reply with obvious errors or changes you'd like me to make before we meet. Look forward to talking soon. John

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Documentation Desktop Presentation
by John J. McDonough 03 Dec '09

03 Dec '09

Last night at our meeting we had a discussion of options for presenting installed documentation. By way of background, we have traditionally provided the Release Notes and the About Fedora document in yelp. A few other documents were placed in the /usr/share/doc/HTML directory prior to Fedora 11, but no links were provided to those documents. Some were actually in html, others were plain text. As of Fedora 12, all the documents are available in html, html-single and pdf, but only the Release Notes and About Fedora are installed by default, and only a handful (maybe one) are available as installable packages. Publican packages documents as a single language per package, which can be extremely clumsy if one wants multiple languages. However, the package creation is totally automatic and hence appealing. Release Notes have been traditionally packaged manually, and that has continued since converting to Publican. There are also delivery alternatives, but I see them as a separate issue, so I have focused solely on the presentation under the assumption we are including documentation that has been installed via traditional Fedora installation vehicles. I've put together the presentation options as I see them at: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop_Documentation_Presentation_Options I am sure there are other possibilities, and there must be advantages and disadvantages to all the options that I overlooked. I would ask you to review the wiki page and ADD TO IT. Document issues and advantages of any of the schemes that you can recognize, and also ideas for other approaches. Thanks --McD

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Docs Meeting 2009-12-03 Summary
by Eric Christensen 02 Dec '09

02 Dec '09

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 =================================================================================================== #fedora-meeting: Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings =================================================================================================== Meeting started by Sparks at 00:00:29 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-12-03/fedora-meeting.2… . Meeting summary - --------------- * Roll Call (Sparks, 00:00:35) * Docs Project Leader Elections (Sparks, 00:05:42) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Leader_Elections (Sparks, 00:06:03) * ACTION: Sparks to remain Docs Leader for another year. (Sparks, 00:12:05) * Release Notes (Sparks, 00:17:50) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=538159 (Sparks, 00:52:21) * ACTION: jjmcd to summarize discussion on wiki (jjmcd, 00:58:39) * ACTION: jjmcd to summarize discussion on wiki (jjmcd, 00:59:43) * docs.fedoraproject.org (Sparks, 01:08:22) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=543540 (Sparks, 01:08:33) * Guide Status (Sparks, 01:18:00) * New Guides (Sparks, 01:25:40) * Status on CMS (Zikula) (Sparks, 01:26:32) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status (Sparks, 01:26:41) * Outstanding BZ Tickets (Sparks, 01:39:41) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&classificatio… (Sparks, 01:40:26) * All other business (Sparks, 01:41:44) * LINK: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2009-December/msg00000.… (ianweller, 01:47:46) Meeting ended at 01:51:37 UTC. Action Items - ------------ * Sparks to remain Docs Leader for another year. * jjmcd to summarize discussion on wiki * jjmcd to summarize discussion on wiki Action Items, by person - ----------------------- * jjmcd * jjmcd to summarize discussion on wiki * jjmcd to summarize discussion on wiki * Sparks * Sparks to remain Docs Leader for another year. * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) - --------------------------- * Sparks (156) * jjmcd (98) * ianweller (25) * rudi (20) * ke4qqq (20) * Tsagadai-netbook (16) * danielsmw (7) * zodbot (4) * bcotton (4) * bugbot_ (4) * abadger1999 (1) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAksXQEkACgkQfQTSQL0MFMFhOACgvqPMqkowDmCbd9EthuArMkyx wuoAoI7ca/dfBhWyqMZGRr62wVcxH8oo =ToKc -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Docs Meeting 2009-12-03 IRC log
by Eric Christensen 02 Dec '09

02 Dec '09

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 00:00:29 <Sparks> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:00:29 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Dec 3 00:00:29 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:00:30 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:00:35 <Sparks> #topic Roll Call 00:00:36 * Sparks 00:00:41 * danielsmw 00:00:53 * jjmcd . 00:01:03 * bcotton is here 00:01:21 * ianweller 00:02:05 <Sparks> Wow! Lots of people here tonight! 00:02:33 <jjmcd> Mssr. Landmann indicated he was swamped today so I'm not sure we'll see him 00:02:45 <bcotton> wow it's like every party i've ever hosted 00:03:16 <Sparks> jjmcd: Figures... just when we have complaints on his work... :) 00:03:25 <jjmcd> heh 00:04:49 <Sparks> speak of the devil 00:04:50 <jjmcd> Hey look 00:05:25 <Sparks> Okay, let's get started 00:05:42 <Sparks> #topic Docs Project Leader Elections 00:06:03 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Leader_Elections 00:06:28 <Sparks> So would anyone else like to nominate anyone to head up this awesome project? 00:07:05 <jjmcd> I heard a rumor about ianweller 00:07:11 <jjmcd> somewhere 00:07:14 <Sparks> jjmcd: You know, I heard that too 00:07:21 <ianweller> i'm honored but i have zero time 00:07:26 <ianweller> it's my senior year in high school :P 00:07:27 <Sparks> must not be a rumor anymore if more than me heard it 00:07:40 * Sparks thought the senior year was the slack off year 00:07:42 <jjmcd> Well, at least it's non-negative like the rest of us 00:08:02 * danielsmw confirms Sparks assertion 00:08:03 <Sparks> heh 00:08:54 <ianweller> :) 00:08:59 <ianweller> i would slack off but my extra curriculars are insane 00:09:04 <Sparks> Okay so am I the only one up for this job? 00:09:18 <jjmcd> I think so 00:09:19 <danielsmw> *nod* 00:09:20 * Sparks thinks ianweller will have some other kind of excuse for next year 00:09:33 <jjmcd> Seems to say not too many are upset with the job you are doing 00:09:57 <Sparks> Okay... all in favor of continuing to have me head this monster up. 00:10:04 <jjmcd> +1 00:10:09 <bcotton> +1 00:10:10 <danielsmw> +1 00:10:10 <ianweller> +1 00:10:28 <ianweller> unless you really don't want it :P 00:11:05 <Sparks> and then what? 00:11:13 <danielsmw> then we're headless. 00:11:20 <jjmcd> give it back to stickster 00:11:23 <Sparks> we're close to that now 00:11:29 <Sparks> where is stickster_afk anyway? 00:11:38 <danielsmw> he's afk... 00:11:44 <danielsmw> :) 00:11:45 <jjmcd> I think he is still vacationing 00:11:47 <Sparks> okay... so I guess I'm hired on for another year. 00:11:54 <ianweller> jjmcd: no, he's been back 00:12:05 <Sparks> #action Sparks to remain Docs Leader for another year. 00:12:09 <jjmcd> Didn't he tweet like he had a couple more days he was going to try to play with the kids 00:12:30 <Sparks> ya 00:15:56 <jjmcd> So Sparks is steeling himself with another brandy 00:16:29 <Sparks> jjmcd: SPC just issued a PDS for NC where my folks lived. Had to give them a call. 00:16:39 <Sparks> Okay... well thanks for the vote of support... I think. 00:16:55 <jjmcd> just days before SRD, too 00:17:29 * Sparks makes a note to talk to stickster_afk about his pay raise now that he's tenured. 00:17:50 <Sparks> #topic Release Notes 00:18:05 <Sparks> jjmcd: So you want to talk about Yelp v. HTML 00:18:07 <jjmcd> I bet he would go for a 10% hike if you ask nice 00:18:14 <jjmcd> Yeah, here's the deal 00:18:22 <jjmcd> We currently use yelp to display RNs 00:18:42 <jjmcd> This gives us automatic language selection and integration with the rest of gnome help 00:18:59 <jjmcd> yelp has some limits, tho, and it doesn't help our KDE users 00:19:23 <jjmcd> Jeff Fearn suggested some javascript so we could get the lang selection in html 00:19:50 <jjmcd> I had to fix his script, but it does work. We can get automatic language selection of RNs in both Gnome and KDE 00:20:05 <jjmcd> Downside is that it is no longer integrated with the rest of help 00:20:25 <jjmcd> Upsides it gets us KDE and gets away from some yelp clumsiness. 00:21:00 <Sparks> jjmcd: Should we also discuss what shaunm (from GNOME) said? 00:21:00 <jjmcd> I wanted to get peoples thoughts on that .. basically a separate menu choice under Documentation for RNs, under System in KDE 00:21:07 <jjmcd> Yes, 00:21:44 <jjmcd> shaunm indicated that the current langiage selection scheme in yelp will be changed, and we might be able to integrate html too, in yelp 3.0 00:21:50 <jjmcd> but I have no idea the timeline 00:22:12 <Sparks> jjmcd: He also wants to have a meeting in March to discuss documentation... 00:22:26 <Sparks> so this might be a way to have a single file go into GNOME and KDE similarly. 00:22:44 <jjmcd> Of course, we have no idea what the Publican/Yelp issues are in the new scheme. And yes, he wants to get together to get something that may be even more cool 00:22:59 <Sparks> I'm going to speculate here... there may be fixes coming soon in Yelp that may fix some of the problems we've seen recently. 00:23:15 <Sparks> and then there is the idea that abadger1999 had 00:23:19 <jjmcd> With the html, the only thing we add for KDE is a .desktop file 00:23:26 <jjmcd> which was 00:23:36 <Sparks> which is to provide a separate, non-packaging means, to getting documentation to the desktop 00:23:51 <Sparks> probably through PackageKit 00:24:07 <jjmcd> Oh yeah. I got to admit I saw that as something a little far out, but certainly we ought to explore it. 00:24:14 <abadger1999> (Note: my idea will need coding work to see the light of day) 00:24:37 <jjmcd> At this point it is hard to see what we might get that would go beyond rpm that would be useful 00:24:48 <jjmcd> But then I'm an old fogey with limited imagination 00:24:56 <Sparks> abadger1999: Ya... but definitely worth mentioning! 00:25:21 * Sparks whacks jjmcd with an imagination stick 00:25:27 <Tsagadai-netbook> Sparks, is there any reason why we can't use RPMs? 00:25:27 <jjmcd> Some time back we talked abuot a separate rpm repo because we might want to have a LOT of packages 00:25:51 <rudi> FWIW, in RHEL, we add a .desktop file for GNOME too 00:26:03 <Sparks> Tsagadai-netbook: There are some issues to using RPMs... and two ways to package the languages... and pros and cons for eac 00:26:13 <Sparks> s/eac/each 00:26:17 <jjmcd> Tsagadai-netbook, I think the discussion was that if we looked specifically at content, there might be additional useful functionality 00:26:27 <rudi> Which is, I guess, RHEL's way of getting around the "no longer integrated with the rest of help" issue 00:26:57 <rudi> (whether stand-alone documentation belongs in help is a different (and religious!) question) 00:27:15 <jjmcd> rudi, I agree that one might make the argument either way 00:27:34 <jjmcd> I am always concerned when I talk about changing how things look to the user 00:28:19 <jjmcd> Personally, I would like to see the guides in yelp, too. But I don't want to write all the .omf's 00:28:31 <Sparks> I, personally, would like to get everyone in the know in a room together and hash out this entire issue 00:29:03 <rudi> Sparks -- with pointy sticks? 00:29:04 <jjmcd> Second choice would be a doc menu with the Jeff language solution (and smarter ,.desktop files for the guides) 00:29:38 <Sparks> rudi: pointy sticks not required. There are so many ideas it's hard to get them all out asyncronously or via IRC 00:30:06 <jjmcd> Well, if we do it in yelp I think we should also do it in khelpcenter, and I'm not so sure I want to do that, either 00:31:05 <jjmcd> Sparks, you got that right. What we need is some sort of web page where everyone could put their ideas 00:31:11 <rudi> I'm still working on a proof-of-concept package for the Install Guide to see whether Yelp can render a doc of that size and complexity at all 00:31:20 <Sparks> Anyone know when the next FUDCon NA will be? 00:31:29 <jjmcd> hmmmm 00:31:33 <Sparks> jjmcd: Like... ummm... a wiki? 00:31:44 <jjmcd> Maybe something like that, yeah 00:31:50 <Sparks> does yelp == khelpcenter? 00:32:02 <jjmcd> functionally similar 00:32:13 <Sparks> same file types? 00:32:24 <jjmcd> WHAT? Are you nuts? 00:32:26 <Sparks> errr 00:32:40 <Sparks> Can I take the same file and have each render the file similarly? 00:33:05 <Sparks> I'm guessing not 00:33:09 <jjmcd> Acually, I think khelpcenter is looking for html, yelp wants xml 00:33:11 <Sparks> which goes on my shopping list for March 00:34:08 <jjmcd> So are you going to come to chi in march? 00:34:26 <jjmcd> Still pretty cold in the windy city 00:34:31 <Sparks> jjmcd: If I must. I think I can take the train for <$180 00:34:51 <jjmcd> how many days? 00:35:17 <Sparks> 1 00:35:27 <Sparks> ish 00:35:31 <jjmcd> surprised, I figgered it would be 3 00:35:35 <Sparks> nah 00:35:46 <Sparks> it's a short(er) trip 00:36:34 <Sparks> Of course I haven't received my official invitation or found a golden ticket in a candy bar, yet 00:37:03 <Sparks> IMO, we need to be working with Yelp upstream to see what's coming down. 00:37:12 <jjmcd> shaunm didn't say exactly where yet, either 00:37:28 <Sparks> If it's going to be a complete drag then we can go with html on the desktop 00:37:46 <jjmcd> I would hope something close to ORD 00:37:58 <jjmcd> With Jeff's code the HTML isn't all that awful 00:38:00 <Sparks> but if we could integrate better into Yelp and khelpcenter then I feel that it might be better that way. Just my opinion, though 00:38:10 <jjmcd> I agree with that 00:38:47 <jjmcd> Some people don't like that with yelp you get yelp's rendering, rather than playing with your own stylesheets 00:38:54 <jjmcd> But as far as I'm concerned, its one less thing to mess with 00:40:04 <Sparks> Yelp helps with accessibility, though 00:40:28 <jjmcd> yep 00:40:51 <Tsagadai-netbook> Sparks, if you have a travel budget I'll happily come and visit :) 00:40:51 <Sparks> rudi: Are you in cahoots with khelpcenter upstream? 00:41:05 <rudi> Sparks, no 00:41:19 <Sparks> Tsagadai-netbook: A travel budget? Yeah, it's 10% of whatever stickster_afk pays me 00:41:22 <rudi> But I *can* confirm that the help docs are in html 00:41:30 <Sparks> Tsagadai-netbook: not sure you can get very far on that, though 00:41:43 <rudi> Just looking at them now in /usr/share/doc/HTML/ 00:42:10 <Sparks> rudi: cool. It'd be nice if both were using the same format 00:42:24 <Sparks> maybe we should get both to implement the other format they aren't supporting 00:42:41 <rudi> Agreed. GNOME should just fork HelpCenter 00:43:11 <Tsagadai-netbook> I was joking :) 00:43:17 <Sparks> Tsagadai-netbook: :) 00:43:24 <Sparks> Tsagadai-netbook: You can still come, though 00:43:34 <jjmcd> It is interesting. Yelp is more appealing because the index doesn't point to hundreds of help files. For some reason, KDE seems to insist on a manual even if its empty 00:43:37 <Tsagadai-netbook> I intend to at some stage 00:43:50 * rudi would love to get to one too :) 00:43:59 * Tsagadai-netbook has not been to that continent yet :) 00:44:17 * jjmcd hasn't been to rudi's continent 00:44:35 * Sparks wants to visit AU 00:44:42 <Sparks> but is scared he might stay 00:45:00 <Sparks> Okay... just to recap 00:45:04 <jjmcd> been to europe and asia but hasn't yet been to any of those upside-down continents 00:45:32 <Sparks> Plan A is to work with upstream Yelp and possibly khelpcenter to work out the issues we are having 00:45:40 <Sparks> Plan B is to just put HTML on the desktop 00:45:43 <Sparks> is there a Plan C? 00:45:55 <Tsagadai-netbook> I'd say plan B is better :) 00:46:05 <Tsagadai-netbook> we know browsers work 00:46:07 <jjmcd> Well, providing for khelpcenter IS html for now 00:46:21 <jjmcd> Tsagadai-netbook, we had serious doubts this morning 00:46:30 <rudi> We should also find out what Xfce uses 00:46:35 <Tsagadai-netbook> jjmcd, about browsers? 00:46:39 <jjmcd> And based on Jeff's recent comment to my bug, maybe still 00:46:39 <Sparks> yeah and Sugar 00:46:48 <rudi> Since that seems to be getting some traction 00:46:52 <jjmcd> Tsagadai-netbook, yeah 00:46:55 <Tsagadai-netbook> Moblin doesn't have working help on fedora :) 00:47:14 <Tsagadai-netbook> so we can skip it for now :) 00:47:35 <rudi> LXDE? 00:47:42 <Tsagadai-netbook> jjmcd, I missed the "morning" discussion. What's wrong with browsers? 00:48:24 <jjmcd> We were having inconsistencies in detecting the language browser to browser. Sounds like it is still a problem on RHEL, but for Fedora I think I have a workaround 00:49:00 <jjmcd> Still have quite a few to test, tho. Certainly we will fail on Mosaic and Dillo and probably others 00:49:25 <jjmcd> Tsagadai-netbook, we have like a dozen browsers on Fedora 00:49:41 <Tsagadai-netbook> jjmcd, do we need to support the obscure ones? 00:49:57 <Tsagadai-netbook> or just file bugs with the projects that they don't display properly 00:50:13 <jjmcd> Well, if someone chooses Dillo as their default I can't say I have a lot of sympathy for them 00:50:28 * Tsagadai-netbook notes there are a dozen browsers on fedora but they all have a marketshare smaller than IE4 00:50:34 <jjmcd> But Mosaic, heck, that is THE classic 00:50:48 <Tsagadai-netbook> works on elinks and lynx 00:50:56 <Tsagadai-netbook> what more could people want? 00:51:18 <jjmcd> Well, Jeff wasn't very receptive to making lynx work on rhel 00:51:52 <jjmcd> see BZ#538159 00:52:05 <Sparks> .bug 538159 00:52:07 <bugbot_> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=538159 low, low, - ---, jfearn, NEW, Publican should package multiple languages 00:52:07 <zodbot> Sparks: Bug 538159 Publican should package multiple languages - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=538159 00:52:08 <bugbot_> Bug 538159: low, low, ---, jfearn, NEW, Publican should package multiple languages 00:52:21 <Sparks> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=538159 00:52:23 <bugbot_> Bug 538159: low, low, ---, jfearn, NEW, Publican should package multiple languages 00:53:01 <Sparks> doh! 00:53:25 <jjmcd> bugbot, zodbot, these computers are taking over 00:53:50 <Sparks> jjmcd: Is there a standard for rendering languages like what we're asking it to do? 00:54:14 <Sparks> If there is and they aren't meeting it then we can file bugs against those browsers for it. 00:54:26 <jjmcd> It seems like the issue is around the DOM and how it interacts with JS. Every browser interprets JS differently 00:54:49 <jjmcd> I haven't even attempted IE, I be that will be a whole new experience 00:55:16 * Sparks doesn't like js 00:55:23 <jjmcd> But since I am looking at Fedora help menu items, I don't think IE will be a big issue 00:55:31 <jjmcd> nor I, Sparks 00:56:03 <jjmcd> But I bet if I said <SCRIPT LANG="vbasic" I wouldn't get very far 00:56:28 <Sparks> *snicker* 00:56:54 <jjmcd> In these days of AJAX, tho, you can't avoid it 00:57:59 <Sparks> Okay. well I think we are spinning our wheels at this point. 00:58:11 <jjmcd> Sparks, do you want an rpm so you can study it? 00:58:15 <Sparks> we need to get this information into a wiki page so we can see it all. 00:58:29 <Sparks> a multi lang rpm? sure 00:58:39 <jjmcd> #action jjmcd to summarize discussion on wiki 00:58:54 <jjmcd> oops you didn't turn me on, oh well 00:59:32 <Sparks> I think it did it anyway. I don't think there is any feedback on that command 00:59:36 <Sparks> #chair jjmcd 00:59:36 <zodbot> Current chairs: Sparks jjmcd 00:59:43 <jjmcd> #action jjmcd to summarize discussion on wiki 01:00:13 <jjmcd> huh - wasn;t it #action? Must be we don't want to do that 01:00:14 <Sparks> jjmcd: I'd like the wiki page to show something along the lines of each plan... and an area to put PROs and CONs... thoughts? 01:00:27 <jjmcd> yeah 01:00:38 <jjmcd> And pehaps fantasies for yelp 4.0 01:00:46 <Sparks> ya 01:01:37 <Sparks> Just a quick poll... If we had a FAD at an upcoming FUDCon... could people make Boston, Raleigh, or a point on the west coast (of the US) easier? 01:02:29 * Sparks thinks everyone went to sleep... 01:02:40 <jjmcd> depends on the time of year 01:02:56 <jjmcd> You gotta be nuts to go to Boston in the winter, Raleigh in the summer 01:03:46 <Sparks> Raleigh is great in the summer... 01:03:59 <jjmcd> although I have been known to go to Edmonton in the winter and Houston in the summer so there's no accounting 01:05:08 <jjmcd> Why not something temperate like NYC or Philly or central like Chi 01:05:17 <Sparks> I don't know 01:05:41 <Sparks> They have traditionally been in Boston. My first one was in Raleigh a couple of years ago. It rocked. 01:05:50 <bcotton> West Lafayette is beautiful year round :-) 01:05:53 <jjmcd> NYC, Chi, Denver, Mineapolis, Atlanta - easy to get to 01:06:50 <Sparks> Okay... just open thoughts from someone who can't control the tides much less the next FUDCon 01:06:57 <jjmcd> hehe 01:07:03 <Sparks> Anything else on the release notes before moving on? 01:08:22 <Sparks> #topic docs.fedoraproject.org 01:08:33 <Sparks> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=543540 01:08:34 <bugbot_> Bug 543540: medium, low, ---, eric, ASSIGNED, Usability of http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ is poor 01:08:53 <Sparks> So there is a complaint against the way our webpage is designed 01:09:17 <jjmcd> You can't fight the Schneemann curve 01:10:10 <Sparks> so has Mizmo evaluated the latest work? 01:11:15 <Sparks> just out of curiosity 01:11:32 <rudi> We would *love* to be able to do away with manually selecting languages 01:11:40 <Sparks> yes 01:11:51 <Sparks> which is something that Zikula was supposed to help us with 01:11:53 <rudi> And inheriting that from the Fedora start page or from the user's browser 01:11:59 <rudi> Absoluitely 01:12:32 <Sparks> Is this something we want to deal with or just put that effort in getting Zikula up and running 01:13:27 <rudi> My inclination is "wait for Zikiula" 01:13:30 <jjmcd> Will zikula answer the problem or just make it harder to fix? 01:13:39 <rudi> But I'll take a closer look at the suggestion 01:13:51 <Sparks> I think it will answer the problem but if not it will change what we have to fix 01:14:05 <Sparks> rudi: do you want to grab the ticket? 01:14:11 <rudi> OK 01:14:29 <Sparks> either way we will not have this problem by F13... knock on wood 01:14:52 <rudi> Oh G-d please yes 01:15:03 <jjmcd> dreamer 01:15:34 <Sparks> Hopefully next week we'll have some more information on Zikula 01:17:46 <Sparks> Okay... moving on 01:18:00 <Sparks> #topic Guide Status 01:18:18 <Sparks> Anyone have anything they'd like to talk about on their guides? 01:18:50 <Sparks> I will note that the accessibility guide (english) got pushed to update repo today 01:20:21 <jjmcd> Don't like those other languages? 01:20:42 <Sparks> I'm waiting for the Transifex upgrade... 01:21:01 <jjmcd> wuss 01:21:23 <Sparks> Okay... THEY are waiting for... 01:23:24 <Sparks> I might suggest we go the old way if we get close to F13 01:23:51 <Sparks> I think radsy got his photos squared away in the wireless guide so that should be coming to a desktop near you soon 01:24:21 <Sparks> anything else? 01:24:47 * ke4qqq is here, but way late 01:24:57 <jjmcd> WOW 01:25:32 <Sparks> ke4qqq: Nah, just in time! 01:25:40 <Sparks> #topic New Guides 01:25:46 <Sparks> Any new guides out there? 01:26:32 <Sparks> #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) 01:26:41 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status 01:26:49 * ke4qqq knew I should have kept my mouth shut :) 01:26:56 <Sparks> :) 01:27:02 <Sparks> No! Glad you are here! 01:27:19 <Sparks> I think there is to be some work done this weekend at FUDCon. 01:27:49 <ke4qqq> yep 01:28:11 <ke4qqq> they have worked on cleaning up some of the licesning stuff in a few modules recently 01:28:55 <Sparks> excellent 01:29:08 <Sparks> So you'll have it rolled out and ready by 2010? 01:29:22 <ke4qqq> well insight at least :) 01:29:48 <ke4qqq> but that's a big chunk of the work for docs. 01:30:38 <Sparks> what's the delta? 01:30:52 <ke4qqq> while I am not able to go to fudcon - (thursday and friday travel problems) but I'll be participating sat and sun remotely. 01:31:16 <Sparks> ke4qqq: Cool 01:31:56 * Sparks should probably do the same 01:34:05 <Sparks> ke4qqq: Do we know what the delta is between Insight and what we want? 01:35:34 <ke4qqq> just modules largely 01:35:49 <Sparks> Are those modules built? 01:35:53 <ke4qqq> and essentially that we are using more of them than they are 01:36:00 <ke4qqq> about 65/35 at the moment 01:36:08 <ke4qqq> everything that isn't built is a licensing issue 01:36:17 <ke4qqq> though those are becoming fewer by the minute 01:36:34 <Sparks> cool 01:36:41 <ke4qqq> well week perhaps 01:36:52 <Sparks> :) 01:37:10 <Sparks> Has the remote instructions posted somewhere for the FUDCon? 01:37:27 <Sparks> Have the remote instructions been posted somewhere for the FUDCon? 01:37:50 <ke4qqq> not that I know of 01:38:10 <Sparks> ok 01:38:24 <Sparks> anything else on the Zikula homefront? 01:38:50 <ke4qqq> nothing from me - aside from the fact 1.2.0 was released a few weeks ago 01:39:01 <ke4qqq> and cures a lot of problems we've asked for fixes for 01:39:12 <ke4qqq> among other things 01:39:25 <Sparks> cool 01:39:36 <Sparks> Okay, moving on 01:39:41 <Sparks> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets 01:40:26 <Sparks> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&classificatio… 01:40:57 <Sparks> I'm not going to go through all the outstanding tickets but if you can close some please do so! 01:41:33 <Sparks> We've been doing pretty well, lately. 01:41:44 <Sparks> #topic All other business 01:41:51 <Sparks> Okay, anything else? 01:42:08 <ianweller> i wanna praise the docs team this release 01:42:11 <ianweller> we did some really cool stuff 01:42:20 <Sparks> agreed 01:42:21 <ianweller> i know i wasn't involved in a lot of it, mostly zikula (slightly) and relicensing 01:42:54 <Sparks> We doubled the number of guides we had from F11 and completely moved to Publican which we've been trying to do for a while. 01:43:40 <ianweller> and got ourselves off a content island. woo! :) 01:43:46 <Sparks> :) 01:43:46 * ke4qqq notes he just got paged out for a server failure 01:43:59 <Sparks> ke4qqq: Bah... we know better than that 01:44:14 <ke4qqq> +1 the docs team this release did awesome work - I wish I could have participated more, you guys made it look easy and did great work 01:44:17 <ke4qqq> Sparks: I wish 01:44:38 * Sparks notes that the AU team made it look easy for us 01:45:19 <Sparks> Okay, anything else before I close out this very productive meeting? 01:46:43 <ianweller> oh 01:46:56 <ianweller> if you ahven't read it on f-announce-list, there's an infrastructure move this weekend 01:47:00 <ianweller> er 01:47:01 <ianweller> next weekend 01:47:09 <Sparks> yeah... BIG move 01:47:18 <ianweller> moving most of our core servers 01:47:27 <ianweller> wiki will be down for sure, i think CVS is too, and accounts system might be down 01:47:33 <ianweller> so. just a friendly reminder :) 01:47:46 <ianweller> http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2009-December/msg00000.… 01:48:25 <Sparks> why is the move occuring? 01:48:36 <ianweller> so that infra can expand more in the PHX location 01:48:37 <ianweller> mostly 01:48:59 <ianweller> "This move is planned to be completed on December 15th and 01:48:59 <ianweller> will ultimately provide better hosting facilities and room for growth. 01:49:59 <ianweller> Sparks: i'm done :) 01:50:21 <Sparks> cool 01:50:26 <Sparks> Okay, anyone have anything else? 01:51:34 <Sparks> Okay, thanks everyone for coming out today. 01:51:37 <Sparks> #endmeeting -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAksXQAcACgkQfQTSQL0MFMFTTACgpGjZlAUeUuEFy1j0zPuKXZ0l 0g0AoJv/u4jz2VX61dL72MKbR2qahg+o =UYq0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Fedora Docs Meeting Reminder
by Eric Christensen 02 Dec '09

02 Dec '09

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 REMINDER: There will be a Fedora Docs Meeting today at 0001 UTC. The agenda can be found at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAksW9JcACgkQfQTSQL0MFMFz6QCggFX+HW/W/qF00aLKzKQKHonS 8bsAoLS1IUNFCyMTKVYhi6J0HqcwdYNv =zGhX -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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