On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 05:00:51PM +0200, Christoph Höger wrote:
> Hi all,
> so testdays are a really cool way of testing feature progress during an
> alpha/beta cycle. I guess upstream projects really love all those corner
> cases being tested.
> So as Paul stated
> The wiki is public now, which makes it possible to test features (and
> post the results) for everybody not only FAS members. This is definitely
> a good thing, but I guess there are a few more points to make that work:
> a) we should _always_ have USB images ready. That should lower the
> testing costs to zero.
> b) we need public attention (aka PR), I already tried to get that into
> some german online media and phoronix for nouveau test day, but with
> little success (only prolinux.de reacted). I guess no one will make a
> headline for every testday, so it would be a good idea to bring
> attention to the test days (and the schedule) in the alpha release notes
> (and pounce the media on those). Some ambassadors having PR experience
Cc'ing the fedora-docs-list to reference above.
I added a placeholder note for that future page:
> c) make the test cases as automated as possible. Offer sending smolt
> profile (smoltGUI) and run test cases directly from the desktop. Also We
> should add a link (or the document itself) about how to test what and
> why to the desktop. If it's possible for the test generated results
> should also be posted automagically to the results page, or, if tests
> fail, bug reports could be created by bugbuddy.
Not sure if bugbuddy adds any heft to the Live images. Regardless
though, I actually was talking to James Laska about this just the
other day. The easier the community uptake, the more people can dive
in and get involved.
I've found the Live images really helped me. I don't tend to have a
lot of time to devote to testing, yet I was able to successfully
run some tests and generate a few bug reports for the Nouveau test
day. It was a great experience and I'd like as many other people to
enjoy it as possible.
I'd suggest that followups on this go to fedora-test-list, since
that's typically where the QA folks do the bulk of their planning and
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
It looks like we will be building the pot file around 3 PM Eastern (1900Z)
today, so if there is something you imagine you are going to get into the
release notes, you better get moving. While we can make small changes
between now and the end of the month, these are essentially the release
notes for GA.
Please take a moment to read through the current version online - there are
a few little bits to be added over the next hour or so, but it is largely
Thanks for everyone's help
I am going to be editing the release notes for Fedora 11 and adding a
bunch of new information. These are my notes if you want to help me in
ext3->ext4 migration via anaconda if you
boot with "ext4migrate" on the cmdline.
live cd doesn't support anything other than ext4 and ext3? anaconda bug
report should be filed
Everything has switched to sha256, including media check
http://myoung.fedorapeople.org/dom0/ provides dom0 kernel for Xen
new virt-manager screenshots
relatime FAQ - http://valhenson.livejournal.com/36519.html
ext4 - extends format - faster file deletes, multi-block allocator,
fragmentation resistant (delayed pre allocation - either fsync by the
app or page dirty cleaner, earlier was single block at a time), removes
16 TB ceiling, 32,000 sub directory limit.
preupgrade - f9 to f11 wont work?
Make sure all the feature are documented
We need to get the pot files to the translators today, and there is still
some work to be done. If you can possibly help this morning, please do.
I have changed the right two columns of
to reflect where we are.
There are a few sections where we need some content, if you can take some
time to research something with a 0 in both columns please do it. In some
cases there is a 0 in the wiki column and a 1 in the Publican column. In
those cases, some content was provided directly into Publican, so check both
In places with a * in the wiki column, there is some content, but it is very
weak. If you can make it better, please do.
If you make changes in something that is already in Publican, please let me
know, and if possible, update Publican.
You will find the current state of the xml for reference.
Thanks for your help
Mar 04 19:00:10 <Sparks> <meeting id="Docs Project">
Mar 04 19:00:13 <Sparks> Roll Call!
Mar 04 19:00:14 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings
Mar 04 19:00:18 * laubersm is here
Mar 04 19:00:19 * danielsmw is here
Mar 04 19:00:21 * Sparks is here
Mar 04 19:00:25 <jjmcd> est ici
Mar 04 19:01:14 * radsy here
Mar 04 19:01:30 <radsy> i'm awake for this one!
Mar 04 19:01:48 <Sparks> radsy: That was one of the reasons for moving the meeting time!
Mar 04 19:01:59 * Sparks gives everyone a few more minutes to trickle in
Mar 04 19:02:45 * Tsagadai (n=ccurran@nat/redhat/x-6be2c7767979ce42) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 04 19:02:47 <mdious> here
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Mar 04 19:03:05 * ryanlerch (n=rlerch@nat/redhat/x-bb8748c4cdaca644) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 04 19:03:28 * ryanlerch is here
Mar 04 19:03:37 <ryanlerch> sorry for being late...
Mar 04 19:03:43 * rudi (n=rlandman@nat/redhat/x-b92c1d018b23f8c9) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 04 19:03:56 <ianweller> oh hai
Mar 04 19:03:56 <Sparks> ryanlerch: Well don't worry about it. You only missed the first three minutes of the meeting...
Mar 04 19:03:58 * ianweller is here
Mar 04 19:04:05 <Sparks> ... where we discussed putting you in charge of everything
Mar 04 19:04:09 <jjmcd> is ke4qqq actually here
Mar 04 19:04:10 <ryanlerch> lol
Mar 04 19:04:13 * J5 has quit (Remote closed the connection)
Mar 04 19:04:48 <Sparks> Okay, first I'd like to apologize for my absence over the past couple of weeks...
Mar 04 19:04:51 * ianweller steals Sparks's gavel and hits the table with it
Mar 04 19:05:15 * kulll has quit (Remote closed the connection)
Mar 04 19:05:16 <Sparks> between $DAYJOB and being sick the last few days I haven't been with it.
Mar 04 19:05:37 <Sparks> And did I mention that my primary computer did it's biannual X failure?
Mar 04 19:05:44 <Sparks> enough about all that... on with the show.
Mar 04 19:05:51 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Wiki ticket approval <-- ianweller
Mar 04 19:05:59 <Sparks> ianweller: You needed guidance?
Mar 04 19:06:09 <ianweller> oh yes
Mar 04 19:06:14 <ianweller> .tiny https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-wiki/query?status=new&status=assigned&sta...
Mar 04 19:06:16 <zodbot> ianweller: http://tinyurl.com/ccdbpp
Mar 04 19:06:32 <ianweller> i'm gonna go down the list real quick
Mar 04 19:06:48 <ianweller> ticket 2: Packaging mass page rename
Mar 04 19:06:56 <ianweller> laubersm: what's the status on that?
Mar 04 19:07:04 <laubersm> ready to go
Mar 04 19:07:25 <Sparks> Did we get the bot working?
Mar 04 19:07:27 <ianweller> k i'll see what i can do with wikibot. i may just need to work w/o nigel's patches to pywikipedia bot
Mar 04 19:07:28 <laubersm> I don't have permission to touch those manually but abadger and spot said go for it
Mar 04 19:07:40 <ianweller> laubersm: i don't have permission either :/
Mar 04 19:07:44 <laubersm> the psv has old name | new name
Mar 04 19:07:46 <ianweller> which is oddly funny
Mar 04 19:07:53 <ianweller> anywho moving on
Mar 04 19:07:59 <ianweller> Docs Project mass rename
Mar 04 19:08:01 <ianweller> laubersm: status? :)
Mar 04 19:08:05 <laubersm> done
Mar 04 19:08:23 * ianweller sets as 'fixed'
Mar 04 19:08:27 * jjmcd applauds laubersm
Mar 04 19:08:34 <laubersm> but that one did not cover all the Docs/* and Docs/Drafts pages so we still need a little work on that
Mar 04 19:08:38 <ianweller> ticket 5: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-wiki/ticket/5 Help page when a search fails is blank
Mar 04 19:08:55 <ianweller> laubersm: ok. we'll get to that when it comes
Mar 04 19:09:00 <ianweller> can i ask someone to take ticket 5 and work on it?
Mar 04 19:09:14 <Sparks> yes, you can.
Mar 04 19:09:15 <Sparks> :)
Mar 04 19:09:28 <ianweller> s/ask/force/
Mar 04 19:09:38 <Sparks> yes, you can (just not me)
Mar 04 19:09:51 * ianweller points at ryanlerch
Mar 04 19:10:06 <ianweller> i'll see if i can rope someone into that later. moving on.
Mar 04 19:10:06 * joat (n=joat(a)ip70-174-79-200.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 04 19:10:12 <laubersm> It is just writing the help page?
Mar 04 19:10:17 <ianweller> yeah
Mar 04 19:10:23 <ianweller> or stealing it from mediawiki.org cuz that is public domain
Mar 04 19:10:29 <ianweller> whatever, really
Mar 04 19:10:30 <laubersm> Can a draft be dragged from mediawiki and modified?
Mar 04 19:10:44 <ianweller> yeah
Mar 04 19:10:48 * quaid sticks his head in for a few minutes to watch
Mar 04 19:10:50 <ianweller> i can talk about it afterwards
Mar 04 19:10:59 <ianweller> moving on: ticket 6 https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-wiki/ticket/6 packagemaintainers mass page rename
Mar 04 19:11:04 <joat> if you have the proper access, a page can be exported from one wiki and imported into the other
Mar 04 19:11:05 <ianweller> laubersm: status report on that? it says 'mostly done'
Mar 04 19:11:14 <laubersm> done - close
Mar 04 19:11:18 <ianweller> woo
Mar 04 19:11:35 <ianweller> ok here's where i actually need opinion votes :)
Mar 04 19:11:43 <ianweller> https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-wiki/ticket/7 "Mediawiki:Mainpage title change request"
Mar 04 19:12:00 <ianweller> it's been requested by stickster_afk to change the name of "Main Page" to something like "Fedora Project Wiki"
Mar 04 19:12:15 <ianweller> which would consist of moving the main page to that name and then adjusting the Mediawiki:Mainpage variable.
Mar 04 19:12:19 <ianweller> +1 or -1 plz
Mar 04 19:12:19 <Sparks> -1 (just because Paul suggested it)
Mar 04 19:12:24 <quaid> there is a reason, too
Mar 04 19:12:33 <quaid> when you see the front page, right now it says 'Main Page'
Mar 04 19:12:33 * kulll (n=kulll(a)184.108.40.206) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 04 19:12:33 <ianweller> Sparks: loll
Mar 04 19:12:35 <quaid> which is short of helpful
Mar 04 19:12:45 <jjmcd> +1
Mar 04 19:12:49 <quaid> if it were named [[Fedora Project Wiki]], that would appear as the <h1> on that page.
Mar 04 19:12:53 <laubersm> I have no problem with the change.. +1
Mar 04 19:12:53 <quaid> so, I am +1
Mar 04 19:12:59 <danielsmw> +1
Mar 04 19:13:00 <Sparks> +1
Mar 04 19:13:03 <radsy> +1
Mar 04 19:13:14 <ryanlerch> +!
Mar 04 19:13:23 <ianweller> i'm calling it approved by FDSCo.
Mar 04 19:13:48 <ianweller> last one is ticket 8, https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-wiki/ticket/8 "Watching Categories"
Mar 04 19:14:02 <ianweller> reported by kanarip. "As per the thread on http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/fedora-wiki/2009-February/000138..., I would like to be able to watch pages being moved from and to Categories. "
Mar 04 19:14:13 <kanarip> that's me
Mar 04 19:14:16 <ianweller> iirc there is an extension to do this but i can't remember it right now.
Mar 04 19:14:31 <ianweller> is this something we want to put interest in or not
Mar 04 19:14:38 <Sparks> So you are watching pages within a category or pages that change categories?
Mar 04 19:14:50 <quaid> so this would make it possible to watch Category:Foo and all that happens to pages in the Cat:Foo would be shown? or just show the entrance/exit from a Cat:?
Mar 04 19:14:51 <kanarip> Categories that get pages added or removed
Mar 04 19:15:07 <quaid> ah, that works for category triggers
Mar 04 19:15:12 <quaid> which spins and features, for example, use.
Mar 04 19:15:16 <jjmcd> If we are relying more on categories, we should have tools to help
Mar 04 19:15:21 <quaid> that is, actions are spawned by a category being set or removed.
Mar 04 19:15:23 * ianweller notes kanarip originally wanted this for spins
Mar 04 19:15:34 <laubersm> you can already watch the category for changes to the page itself but it does not tell you when a new page shows up in the cat
Mar 04 19:15:50 <ianweller> +1 or -1 plz
Mar 04 19:15:53 <quaid> +1
Mar 04 19:15:54 <laubersm> That could be useful for a number of groups who are using categories to track progress
Mar 04 19:16:03 <Sparks> ianweller: IMO, if it is something that is easily added to the wiki that doesn't create a nightmare for admin and a Fedorian can get some use out of... +1
Mar 04 19:16:24 <ianweller> this is a vote for looking into it and testing the extension, fyi
Mar 04 19:16:35 <jjmcd> How stable/difficult/cranky is this add-in
Mar 04 19:16:46 <ianweller> jjmcd: that'd be why i would need to research/test it
Mar 04 19:16:55 <laubersm> +1 to researching
Mar 04 19:16:56 <jjmcd> +1 for research
Mar 04 19:16:59 <ianweller> i don't wanna do that if we're not interested.
Mar 04 19:17:02 <ianweller> i'm just querying interest
Mar 04 19:17:04 <danielsmw> +1 for R&D
Mar 04 19:17:18 <ianweller> ok i've got +5, any more?
Mar 04 19:17:36 <kanarip> +1, fwiw
Mar 04 19:17:37 <kanarip> ;-)
Mar 04 19:17:39 * ianweller takes Sparks's gavel and bangs it again
Mar 04 19:17:40 <ianweller> kanarip: he
Mar 04 19:17:41 <ianweller> heh*
Mar 04 19:17:46 <ianweller> alright /me assigns ticket to self
Mar 04 19:17:56 <ianweller> any questions for me? i'm done with the ticket list
Mar 04 19:18:05 <Sparks> ianweller: I have a question
Mar 04 19:18:10 <ianweller> shoot
Mar 04 19:18:23 <Sparks> ianweller: You mentioned above you didn't have permission to do something. What permission do you need to do what?
Mar 04 19:18:40 <ianweller> with the new ACL extension i don't have permission to touch the Packaging: and Legal: pages.
Mar 04 19:18:52 <ianweller> unless i get put in the appropriate groups
Mar 04 19:19:10 <Sparks> ianweller: but they want you to do work for them?
Mar 04 19:19:17 <ianweller> i assume so :)
Mar 04 19:19:22 <ianweller> i'll talk to spot about it.
Mar 04 19:19:29 <ianweller> i'm almost certain he doesn't want to do it himself
Mar 04 19:19:38 <Sparks> ianweller: Well, make sure they know that you need to be added to their groups, even temporarily.
Mar 04 19:19:47 <ianweller> aye aye
Mar 04 19:19:47 <laubersm> Sparks, it would be a one time shot of a bunch of renaming
Mar 04 19:19:58 <Sparks> ianweller: I don't know why the wiki czar wouldn't have admin access to everything.
Mar 04 19:19:59 <ianweller> odds are i'd put wikibot in the groups, not me
Mar 04 19:20:01 <ianweller> unless i was doing it manually
Mar 04 19:20:03 <Sparks> :)
Mar 04 19:20:03 <ianweller> Sparks: i used to with HNP
Mar 04 19:20:04 <ianweller> ;)
Mar 04 19:20:09 <ianweller> lockdown doesn't have that coded in
Mar 04 19:20:16 <ianweller> prolly a good idea, less code == less bugs
Mar 04 19:20:20 <ianweller> in general
Mar 04 19:20:31 <Sparks> true.
Mar 04 19:20:36 <Sparks> Okay, anything else for ianweller ?
Mar 04 19:20:55 * ianweller internally conts to 10
Mar 04 19:20:59 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - CMS Update <-- ke4qqq
Mar 04 19:21:02 <ianweller> \o/
Mar 04 19:21:04 <Sparks> ke4qqq: You here?
Mar 04 19:21:36 <Sparks> I got a message from someone saying something about the CMS earlier this week but I'm pretty sure I had a fever at that point.
Mar 04 19:21:57 <Sparks> I'll try to follow up before next week so we'll have a progress report to... report.
Mar 04 19:22:00 <jjmcd> someone said he would be asleep by now
Mar 04 19:22:15 <Sparks> jjmcd: Isn't he in South Carolina?
Mar 04 19:22:24 <danielsmw> Yes, unless he's on business
Mar 04 19:22:35 <jjmcd> David is, but I think the guy with the comment was in the uj
Mar 04 19:22:37 <jjmcd> uk
Mar 04 19:22:49 <Sparks> Yes
Mar 04 19:22:51 <Sparks> Okay
Mar 04 19:22:52 <jjmcd> he said to get q's to him by 2300
Mar 04 19:22:57 <quaid> I talked with ... darn, i forget his name
Mar 04 19:23:03 <jjmcd> me too
Mar 04 19:23:15 <Sparks> Okay, I'll have something before next week
Mar 04 19:23:15 <quaid> who is working on the autobuild; I had to install publican on the publictest server
Mar 04 19:23:29 <quaid> and from that I pinged ke4qqq and abadger1999 about
Mar 04 19:23:39 <quaid> the package dependency
Mar 04 19:23:47 <quaid> I'm fairly sure we want the autobuild to happen on a separate server
Mar 04 19:23:57 <quaid> that does not have a web facing interface.
Mar 04 19:24:09 <quaid> http://quaid.fedorapeople.org/Fedora-Docs/publican_rough_dependencies_lis...
Mar 04 19:24:22 <quaid> pulls in qt and stuff, not great for a web server
Mar 04 19:24:40 <quaid> so that was my recommendation to toshio and david, to make another tier.
Mar 04 19:25:53 <Tsagadai> quaid, what exactly is the issue with those packages?
Mar 04 19:26:09 * ianweller is gonna be ignoring IRC for a bit, if you need me back in here call my fedora talk extension
Mar 04 19:26:10 * laubersm thinks it is Simon
Mar 04 19:26:23 <quaid> Tsagadai: ideally a front-facing web server is paired down to a minimun package set that doesn't include X and a graphical desktop
Mar 04 19:26:38 <quaid> but I think there is another good reason to put the autobuild on a stand-alone box
Mar 04 19:26:45 <quaid> doesn't publican peg the CPU when working?
Mar 04 19:26:55 <quaid> we don't want that happening on the same cpu as the CMS.
Mar 04 19:27:01 <Tsagadai> yes, for about 30 seconds
Mar 04 19:27:41 <Tsagadai> but it's single threaded (lawl) so that really shouldn't affect a modern web server
Mar 04 19:27:58 ianweller iarlyy inode0 itamarjp ivazquez ivazquez|laptop ixs
Mar 04 19:28:06 * Sparks calls ianweller but only gets his voicemail
Mar 04 19:29:05 <Tsagadai> I think a stand-alone box would be overkill. If the security aspects of having X11 present but off are overwhelming for the admins perhaps they should try virtualization
Mar 04 19:29:30 <quaid> Tsagadai: I am merely recommending an approach to Infrastructure; you are welcome to make your own recommendation.
Mar 04 19:29:37 <quaid> Sparks: I'm done with this item, btw
Mar 04 19:29:41 <jjmcd> X11 is like a huge albatross for a server
Mar 04 19:29:44 <Sparks> quaid: Okay. TU
Mar 04 19:30:18 <Sparks> Anything else for the CMS?
Mar 04 19:30:25 <Tsagadai> jjmcd, but when X11 is not actually running it is no more an issue than just disk space
Mar 04 19:30:55 <ianweller> hi?
Mar 04 19:31:05 <ianweller> Sparks: cuz i was out of my room :P
Mar 04 19:31:10 <jjmcd> Sort of like parking a semi in your driveway to protect your miata from the wind
Mar 04 19:31:30 <Sparks> ianweller: Wiki pages changes <- an old agenda item. Covered already?
Mar 04 19:31:47 <ianweller> Sparks: what is 'wiki pages changes'
Mar 04 19:32:04 <Sparks> ianweller: I don't know. It was an old item. I'm claiming it as being done.
Mar 04 19:32:10 <ianweller> kill it
Mar 04 19:32:12 <Sparks> Moving on...
Mar 04 19:32:16 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Release Notes
Mar 04 19:32:42 <Sparks> This is ryanlerch and jjmcd's project
Mar 04 19:32:50 <Sparks> Any updates?
Mar 04 19:32:50 <ryanlerch> http://ryanlerch.fedorapeople.org/Release_Notes/publish/
Mar 04 19:33:08 <ryanlerch> the release notes should be in line with what is on the wiki...
Mar 04 19:33:31 <ryanlerch> going to work with rudi on getting the source merged into the git tree...
Mar 04 19:33:45 <jjmcd> I am going to move my work page from Jjmcd/Drafts to DevTools which will be a big jump
Mar 04 19:34:08 <jjmcd> right nw there is a lot of raw data there, but if it's in the open maybe I can draw some help/comments
Mar 04 19:34:26 <jjmcd> Over 100 dev tools new/changed
Mar 04 19:34:49 <jjmcd> gcl is making a 4+ year jump, but the project page leaves no clue as to what is happening
Mar 04 19:35:00 <jjmcd> Jerry James agreed to do some research for me
Mar 04 19:35:20 <jjmcd> Also, Chitlesh Goorah agreed to provide some data on EDA which we overlooked in F10 RNs
Mar 04 19:35:33 <jjmcd> Annnd still more
Mar 04 19:35:51 <jjmcd> I pushed F10 update, marked it LIVE but no joy on d.fp.o
Mar 04 19:36:09 <jjmcd> Been fighting some hardware failures so havent pursued too aggressively
Mar 04 19:36:23 <Sparks> jjmcd: That's a quaid thing... (the d.fp.o issue)
Mar 04 19:36:37 * quaid looks back in
Mar 04 19:36:49 <jjmcd> Yeah, he helped me get it into git but I haven't grabbed him after it didn't show
Mar 04 19:36:57 <ryanlerch> There are also lots of OPEN beats, and a lot of assigned beats that need confirmation
Mar 04 19:36:59 <ryanlerch> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats
Mar 04 19:37:00 <jjmcd> errrr, cvs rather
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Mar 04 19:37:13 <quaid> yeah, recruiting is probably the most important thing right now
Mar 04 19:37:15 * dychen_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
Mar 04 19:37:20 <quaid> those beats don't fill themselves :)
Mar 04 19:37:31 <quaid> jjmcd: I could just do it, but I wanted you to be able to :(
Mar 04 19:37:36 <quaid> update docs.fp.o that is
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Mar 04 19:37:53 <jjmcd> quaid: I thought i did what i needed to but no joy
Mar 04 19:38:03 <ryanlerch> i was thinking of removing all the assignments that are yet to be confirmed and putting them back to OPEN, is that okay?
Mar 04 19:38:11 <jjmcd> but like i said, i still have some things to discover
Mar 04 19:38:49 * iarlyy has quit ("Leaving")
Mar 04 19:39:02 <jjmcd> On recruiting, I think my posting may have done some good. I noticed a number of new volunteers to l10n a couple days later (lots of phil and indonesians read that forum)
Mar 04 19:39:13 <jjmcd> but no joy on beat writers \
Mar 04 19:39:40 <ryanlerch> we also need dev contacts...
Mar 04 19:39:46 <Sparks> jjmcd: Can you post the link to the beats so everyone can take a look to see if there is anything they would like to step up to take?
Mar 04 19:39:56 <ryanlerch> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats
Mar 04 19:39:58 <jjmcd> Good plan
Mar 04 19:40:15 <laubersm> can we put all the beats in a category?
Mar 04 19:40:54 * vonbrand has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
Mar 04 19:42:06 <jjmcd> ryanlerch we might need to add a couple of beats back in, but i'm struggling with organization
Mar 04 19:42:17 <ryanlerch> which beats?
Mar 04 19:42:45 <ryanlerch> i am happy to keep the orgainisation in the docbook, and treat the beats as drafts of sections...
Mar 04 19:42:54 <jjmcd> eclipse in, I took it out, and add in Haskell, we have a writer for that. Trouble is, Eclipse fits in with IDSs and Haskell scattered about
Mar 04 19:43:03 <jjmcd> That may make more sense
Mar 04 19:43:10 <ryanlerch> it is easier to play with the depth of sections in docbook
Mar 04 19:43:30 <ryanlerch> once i get the source into git, you can play with it also...
Mar 04 19:43:32 * SgtDitt (n=SgtDitt(a)ip68-224-89-6.lv.lv.cox.net) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 04 19:43:59 <jjmcd> s/IDSs/IDEs/
Mar 04 19:44:15 <jjmcd> yeah, hard to sort it in the wiki
Mar 04 19:45:17 <SgtDitt> hello all? soory i'm late
Mar 04 19:45:18 * Gaaruto has quit ("maj et shutdown")
Mar 04 19:45:30 <SgtDitt> lol, or missed it
Mar 04 19:45:48 <jjmcd> No, we're going on about release notes
Mar 04 19:45:48 <ryanlerch> IMO, we should pull out the preview thing below the beats assignments, and just have the mockup as the place for people to check the current status of the release notes...
Mar 04 19:46:37 <jjmcd> Trouble is you can't make a change and then see it right away
Mar 04 19:46:55 <jjmcd> But it would make organizing easier
Mar 04 19:47:12 <ryanlerch> but it will still be in the actual beat page...
Mar 04 19:47:13 <quaid> the preview could be moved to another page, less distracting, etc.
Mar 04 19:48:00 <jjmcd> quaid - the issue is more keeping up the structure in two places
Mar 04 19:48:04 <ryanlerch> well, the preview is kinda confusing anyway, because it is such an effort to sort out the sections etc, and so much work.
Mar 04 19:48:05 <quaid> oic
Mar 04 19:48:59 <laubersm> if they are all in a category then you can see all the pieces lexographically, edit the one you need, then when it gets put together it goes in order....
Mar 04 19:49:31 <laubersm> Category:Release Notes Drafts or Category:Documentation Beats whatever...
Mar 04 19:49:49 <Sparks> I thought they were in their own category.
Mar 04 19:50:00 <Sparks> Ten minutes warning, BTW.
Mar 04 19:50:20 <ryanlerch> but when you move sections up or down you need to manually change ==headers== to ===headers=== and vice versa
Mar 04 19:50:30 * bpepple|lt (n=bpepple|(a)rrcs-70-61-160-147.central.biz.rr.com) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 04 19:50:56 <laubersm> Oh?
Mar 04 19:51:13 <jjmcd> Yeah, oh
Mar 04 19:51:14 <quaid> yeah, there really isn't that much value in trying to mirror the wiki beats to the final structure.
Mar 04 19:51:21 <quaid> I don't think it matters to writers; they only care about their beat
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Mar 04 19:51:35 <quaid> the preview then becomes superfluous to them.
Mar 04 19:51:57 <jjmcd> So yeah, probably better to just get rid of it
Mar 04 19:52:10 <ryanlerch> good, will remove it later today...
Mar 04 19:52:35 <laubersm> Some are in a cat - many are not...
Mar 04 19:52:39 <ryanlerch> on a side note, i have been playing around with some scripts to generate package manifests:
Mar 04 19:52:47 <quaid> do you all have any more actions around recruiting beat writers?
Mar 04 19:52:48 <ryanlerch> http://ryanlerch.fedorapeople.org/package_list/html/
Mar 04 19:53:09 <ryanlerch> that is a list of all 11 000+ packages in fedora everything....
Mar 04 19:53:28 <ryanlerch> it is just something i am working on... :P
Mar 04 19:53:36 <quaid> ryanlerch: pretty cool
Mar 04 19:53:42 <jjmcd> Now the interesting bit is assigning them to beats
Mar 04 19:53:49 * ianweller has no clue why we would ever want all the packages and their descriptions in the release notes
Mar 04 19:54:01 <ryanlerch> not really release notes...
Mar 04 19:54:14 * quaid has done his recruiting shout out and now returns to packing
Mar 04 19:54:15 <jjmcd> ianweller: The beat writer often needs help figuring out what it in his beat, tho
Mar 04 19:54:34 <ryanlerch> they are sorted by the RPM group btw...
Mar 04 19:54:47 <laubersm> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Release_Notes has some of the beats but not all - I'm not sure that is the best cat name for them though
Mar 04 19:55:50 <jjmcd> Indeed, a lot of those arent beats. We should have a documentation_beats cat
Mar 04 19:56:46 <laubersm> jjmcd, go to it :)
Mar 04 19:57:20 <Sparks> Okay, anything else for this?
Mar 04 19:57:40 <laubersm> Also what are the Docs/Beats/* pages? many are not in any cat
Mar 04 19:57:44 <laubersm> Are they the old names?
Mar 04 19:57:45 <jjmcd> 3 min for IG, UG, SG, SELG
Mar 04 19:57:54 <jjmcd> Yes
Mar 04 19:57:56 <ryanlerch> we cant go overtime?
Mar 04 19:58:02 <Sparks> We can, I guess.
Mar 04 19:58:10 <jjmcd> now named Documentation_xxx_beat
Mar 04 19:58:20 <laubersm> we may have to go back to docs but I can stay for overtime
Mar 04 19:58:57 <laubersm> jjmcd, then all the DOcs/Beats/* pages can be archived?
Mar 04 19:59:01 <laubersm> :)
Mar 04 19:59:28 <jjmcd> I believe it. I thinkl they are all just redirects ... hard to tell
Mar 04 20:00:04 <laubersm> Not all - we can talk later and I'll point you to the ones I was wondering about
Mar 04 20:00:11 * laubersm is done planting wiki cleanup ideas
Mar 04 20:01:06 * jjmcd will be trying to make more headway on DevTools tomorrow, but Friday is for fixing the laptop (assuming the part arrives as promised)
Mar 04 20:01:55 <Sparks> Okay, let's move to the "anything else" category and then move this discussion over to #f-docs.
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Mar 04 20:02:28 <SgtDitt> I saw a note in the mailing list that the AG may getg shelved. is this due to lack of updates?
Mar 04 20:02:31 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Open Discussion
Mar 04 20:02:37 * danielsmw wanted to talk about the UG a bit but can do that in f-docs
Mar 04 20:02:46 <Sparks> danielsmw: Go for it.
Mar 04 20:02:47 <jjmcd> I think lack of owner
Mar 04 20:02:59 <SgtDitt> ok.
Mar 04 20:03:07 <SgtDitt> I'll pick it up
Mar 04 20:03:08 <jjmcd> If yo are volunteering tho
Mar 04 20:03:12 <jjmcd> Bravo
Mar 04 20:03:29 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - User Guide
Mar 04 20:03:35 <danielsmw> Okay well
Mar 04 20:03:45 <danielsmw> I wanted to bring up a question more than an update really
Mar 04 20:04:01 <danielsmw> Do we have any formal documents or guides focused toward new users besides the UG?
Mar 04 20:04:14 <danielsmw> The reason I ask
Mar 04 20:04:22 <danielsmw> I that I think it would be useful to have...
Mar 04 20:04:30 <danielsmw> I guess... a *nix-theory document
Mar 04 20:04:46 <danielsmw> The UG gives new users a practical cookbook for doing things on Fedora
Mar 04 20:05:09 <danielsmw> but it's hard to be a proficient linux user without understanding at least the philosohphy behind how certain things work.
Mar 04 20:05:15 <danielsmw> Do we have anyhting like this?
Mar 04 20:05:26 <danielsmw> s/anyhting/anything/
Mar 04 20:05:40 <SgtDitt> seems a bit beyond the scope of the docs project.
Mar 04 20:05:41 <Sparks> I don't think there is a problem including some basic *nix usage but we shouldn't sway too far from Fedora.
Mar 04 20:05:55 <danielsmw> Sparks: Agreed, should have clarified.
Mar 04 20:06:01 <SgtDitt> basic, intermediate and advance use of fedora is fitting...
Mar 04 20:06:18 <jjmcd> Wouldn't this help bridge the gulf between the UG and the stuff aimed at the pony tail and rope belt set?
Mar 04 20:06:44 <danielsmw> I mean, I don't think we need a volume on Unix Philosphy.
Mar 04 20:06:44 <Sparks> HAHAHA... pony tail and rope belt set?
Mar 04 20:07:00 <danielsmw> lol
Mar 04 20:07:19 <danielsmw> Yeah, I mean I think it would be useful to at least introduce the CLI, maybe the process model, etc.
Mar 04 20:07:28 <danielsmw> just at a basic level with metaphors and such.
Mar 04 20:07:33 <Sparks> danielsmw: Things like "ll does this" isn't a bad thing even though it is a common bash command
Mar 04 20:07:39 <danielsmw> so new users can at least hope to grasp more advanced commands
Mar 04 20:08:00 <danielsmw> Sparks: can you reword that? I don't see what you're saying.
Mar 04 20:08:00 <Sparks> +1
Mar 04 20:08:04 <joat> jjmcd is showing his age with the pony tail and rope belt comment
Mar 04 20:08:16 <Sparks> joat: Apparently
Mar 04 20:08:21 <jjmcd> LOL -- Datatrieve developers
Mar 04 20:08:42 <Sparks> danielsmw: I think you are on the right track. Just because something isn't specific to Fedora doesn't mean it shouldn't be explained in the FUG
Mar 04 20:08:53 <danielsmw> Sparks: yeah, i figured that out before you replied, sorry. :-)
Mar 04 20:09:09 <danielsmw> Anyway, that was my thought. I blogged about it but didn't get much response.
Mar 04 20:09:15 <danielsmw> I'll discuss it in IRC again later.
Mar 04 20:09:20 <danielsmw> That's all I had. :-)
Mar 04 20:09:22 <jjmcd> Seems like there was something on the list, did you post that?
Mar 04 20:09:24 <Sparks> Go forth and prosper... :)
Mar 04 20:09:41 <danielsmw> jjmcd: Sort of
Mar 04 20:09:42 <joat> I think that it should be located in a wiki so that it can be referenced by other pages
Mar 04 20:09:47 <jjmcd> Suggestion, though. Go out and recruit some staff so we can keep it up
Mar 04 20:09:57 <danielsmw> Back then I was thinking about just adding more advanced topics in general, but I've refined that idea, I think.
Mar 04 20:10:01 <joat> "to learn more about how to save and exit vi, see such-and-such"
Mar 04 20:10:22 <jjmcd> rm -f /bin/vi
Mar 04 20:10:29 <joat> when talking about editing a config file
Mar 04 20:10:34 <danielsmw> jjmcd: Why would you do that?!
Mar 04 20:10:46 <laubersm> based on a conversation in ambassadors earlier today - ssh and scp basics would be useful.
Mar 04 20:10:47 <jjmcd> solves the problem of exiting vi
Mar 04 20:10:54 <danielsmw> lol
Mar 04 20:10:58 <SgtDitt> love vi/vim
Mar 04 20:11:15 <jjmcd> yeah, ssh/scp are pretty basic, but not widely understood by newbies
Mar 04 20:11:36 <jjmcd> You know what RMS said about that
Mar 04 20:11:37 * jsmidt (n=jsmidt(a)vp126161.reshsg.uci.edu) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 04 20:11:46 * nirik would like to butt in and note there are still some open slots for fedora classes in the classroom this weekend. ;) Docs topics would be great.
Mar 04 20:12:26 * jjmcd would love to do something if he could find another dozen hours in the day
Mar 04 20:12:31 * laubersm will be at basketball tourney (assuming we win Fri)
Mar 04 20:13:06 * laubersm should clarify - laubersm watches and only wishes she could play
Mar 04 20:13:56 <Sparks> Okay, anything else meeting worthy?
Mar 04 20:14:39 <jjmcd> what can we do to help laubersm's team loose?
Mar 04 20:14:46 <Sparks> jjmcd: vaseline?
Mar 04 20:14:47 <danielsmw> lol
Mar 04 20:15:06 <jjmcd> that would be cruel Sparks
Mar 04 20:15:18 <Sparks> okay...
Mar 04 20:15:19 <Sparks> 5
Mar 04 20:15:21 <Sparks> 4
Mar 04 20:15:24 <Sparks> 3
Mar 04 20:15:26 <Sparks> 2
Mar 04 20:15:30 <Sparks> 1
Mar 04 20:15:34 <Sparks> 0.5
Mar 04 20:15:38 <Sparks> 0.25
Mar 04 20:15:42 <Sparks> Thanks everyone for coming!
Mar 04 20:15:42 <Sparks> </meeting>
Mar 18 20:00:04 <Sparks> <meeting id="Docs Project">
Mar 18 20:00:04 <Sparks> Roll Call!
Mar 18 20:00:04 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings
Mar 18 20:00:07 * Sparks is here
Mar 18 20:00:12 * danielsmw is here
Mar 18 20:00:12 * laubersm is here
Mar 18 20:00:13 * rudi is here
Mar 18 20:00:15 * ianweller
Mar 18 20:00:20 * jjmcd is here
Mar 18 20:00:21 * zoglesby is here
Mar 18 20:00:24 <ianweller> .wikilink ianweller
Mar 18 20:00:25 <zodbot> ianweller: [[User:ianweller|Ian Weller]]
Mar 18 20:00:26 * radsy is here
Mar 18 20:00:45 <laubersm> ianweller, show off
Mar 18 20:00:49 <ianweller> :3
Mar 18 20:00:51 * joat is here
Mar 18 20:00:53 <laubersm> .wikilink laubersm
Mar 18 20:00:54 <zodbot> laubersm: [[User:laubersm|Susan Lauber]]
Mar 18 20:01:07 * quaid is here
Mar 18 20:02:03 * Sparks waits for ke4qqq and ryanlerch
Mar 18 20:02:48 <jjmcd> David sounded like he had to physically travel to be here, haven't seen Ryan yet today
Mar 18 20:02:55 <Sparks> Well, to not waste time...
Mar 18 20:02:57 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Beta Announcement
Mar 18 20:03:14 <Sparks> First, we had the Beta conference call earlier today...
Mar 18 20:03:30 * rudi peers across the office and notices that Ryan's not at his desk
Mar 18 20:03:45 <Sparks> a lot of things were covered and whenever they release the notes I'll pass them along to group via the list.
Mar 18 20:03:57 * mdomsch has quit ("Leaving")
Mar 18 20:04:22 <Sparks> Thanks to ke4qqq for reminding me that he somehow got Docs on the list for creating the Beta Announcement
Mar 18 20:04:34 <quaid> oops :)
Mar 18 20:04:38 <Sparks> BUT...
Mar 18 20:05:11 <Sparks> A special thanks to jjmcd for grabbing the bull by the horns and really creating nice, attention grabbing announcement
Mar 18 20:05:11 <Sparks> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F11_Beta_Announcement
Mar 18 20:05:33 <Sparks> Please review it and make recommendations/changes as necessary.
Mar 18 20:05:58 <Sparks> I especially like the opening paragraph. :)
Mar 18 20:06:06 <jjmcd> ;-)
Mar 18 20:06:10 <Sparks> BZ jjmcd
Mar 18 20:06:12 <quaid> yeah, we can add that as part of Docs standar op procedure each release ... we've had the final announcement duties for a while
Mar 18 20:06:17 <quaid> but releng has obviously wanted us to do more :)
Mar 18 20:06:20 * che__ (n=che(a)ip-77-25-173-255.web.vodafone.de) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 18 20:06:38 <laubersm> Are we trying to keep it to a "one page"? How much can it grow?
Mar 18 20:06:42 <Sparks> quaid: Yeah, and I think it is a perfect time for us to summarize the release notes... kinda
Mar 18 20:06:51 * herlo is semi-here btw...
Mar 18 20:06:53 <Sparks> laubersm: I don't want it to grow much more...
Mar 18 20:06:58 * che has quit (Nick collision from services.)
Mar 18 20:07:08 <Sparks> laubersm: if only because it is supposed to be a summary of a summary...
Mar 18 20:07:12 * che__ is now known as che
Mar 18 20:07:15 <laubersm> The features page has one liners from proposals but they have some better descriptions in each feature page... that are not much bigger
Mar 18 20:07:25 <Sparks> laubersm: We just want to get you in the door long enough to download and install the beta.
Mar 18 20:07:52 <Sparks> +1 for adding interesting items that will pull users/developers in
Mar 18 20:08:00 * ianweller reads beta announcement
Mar 18 20:08:19 <jjmcd> I ripped off some of the text from the talking points, stressed some over whether it was too long
Mar 18 20:08:20 <Sparks> I think it would be better to have TOO much information in there and have to edit some of it out for brevity.
Mar 18 20:08:33 <laubersm> ok... I am not a fan of "rebase" or "etc" and I think we should be past "the goal is" thoses are all from the initial feature page summaries - many of those
Mar 18 20:08:44 <laubersm> pages ahve better para at the end of the feature page for RN
Mar 18 20:09:12 <quaid> are we still on the release announcement?
Mar 18 20:09:17 <Sparks> quaid: yes
Mar 18 20:09:22 * laubersm knows how to edit and will... also promises to not get wordy :)
Mar 18 20:09:34 <jjmcd> Thanks, Susan
Mar 18 20:09:39 <Sparks> quaid: When do they cut Beta loose?
Mar 18 20:09:57 <jjmcd> Tues I think
Mar 18 20:09:58 <ianweller> announcement looks good
Mar 18 20:10:17 <quaid> ok, in terms of length, long is bad :)
Mar 18 20:10:22 <Sparks> jjmcd: So this needs to be done no later than Sunday eve
Mar 18 20:10:27 <quaid> that stuff belongs in the release notes
Mar 18 20:10:35 <ianweller> it is a bit wordy, yeah
Mar 18 20:10:42 <jjmcd> Yeah, the sked says RNs gotta be done Mon
Mar 18 20:10:46 <ianweller> "Peek behind the kimono" whirr
Mar 18 20:10:47 <Sparks> We want to hit the high points ONLY, IMO
Mar 18 20:10:50 <joat> it's a beta announcement... suggest limiting each of the bullet sets to the best 5, with an URL to the rest
Mar 18 20:11:10 <ianweller> i suggest limiting the total number of bullets to 10
Mar 18 20:11:10 <joat> best 5 of each that is...
Mar 18 20:11:12 <jjmcd> Good plan, the trick is figuring out which are the best 5
Mar 18 20:11:37 <Sparks> jjmcd: Well, if you have six or seven STRONG points, no foul in putting them all in
Mar 18 20:11:46 <joat> probably depends on which demographic each set is aiming at
Mar 18 20:12:03 <ianweller> i like the beta contest. lol.
Mar 18 20:12:09 <radsy> last I heard it was the 24th
Mar 18 20:12:13 <Sparks> joat: True. Right now it is broken down into "user" and "developer"
Mar 18 20:12:15 <jjmcd> that's ripped off from 10
Mar 18 20:12:31 <Sparks> Yes
Mar 18 20:12:52 <Sparks> I don't think it is a bad way to organize it but I'm not tied to it
Mar 18 20:13:31 <jjmcd> If we take out gnome, kde, anaconda and devkit we have 5 5 5, and those are pretty esoteric or limited population IMO
Mar 18 20:14:02 <Sparks> jjmcd: Let's make sure we are satisfied with it NLT Sunday. We can talk about it more later this week.
Mar 18 20:14:09 <jjmcd> yep
Mar 18 20:14:16 * quaid adds a point to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:F11_Beta_Announcement
Mar 18 20:14:17 <Sparks> jjmcd: I don't like taking out gnome and kde...
Mar 18 20:14:36 <ianweller> Sparks: combine gnome and kde into one bullet
Mar 18 20:14:39 <quaid> yes
Mar 18 20:14:45 <jjmcd> Not a bad plan
Mar 18 20:14:50 <ianweller> and fwiw the first paragraph seems awkwardly worded but i'm not exactly sure how you would fix it
Mar 18 20:14:59 <zoglesby> are we really gaining much from new versions of either?
Mar 18 20:15:07 <jjmcd> Updates to the latest window managers gnome 2.6, kde whatever
Mar 18 20:15:16 <jjmcd> Not much visible
Mar 18 20:15:23 * ryanlerch (n=rlerch@nat/redhat/x-16d64ddc8b259390) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 18 20:15:24 <laubersm> yes - and minimize to just updated to version X - they are only additions of upstream stuff....
Mar 18 20:15:39 * laubersm sees that jjmcd already said that :(
Mar 18 20:15:56 * ryanlerch apoligises for lateness
Mar 18 20:16:07 <Sparks> ryanlerch: You haven't missed your topic yet
Mar 18 20:16:16 <Sparks> Okay, anything else on the release announcement?
Mar 18 20:16:45 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Publican fix for Fedora? <-- jjmcd
Mar 18 20:17:03 <Sparks> jjmcd: You were working on a script to "fix" publican srpms for Fedora.
Mar 18 20:17:07 <joat> i still haven't figured that one out yet
Mar 18 20:17:08 <Sparks> jjmcd: Where are you with this?
Mar 18 20:17:15 <jjmcd> No progress there since last week, although I am convinced that it isn't a big deal
Mar 18 20:17:33 <Sparks> Should we just use the old tools as necessary?
Mar 18 20:17:34 <jjmcd> I figure I;m trainable -- worst case I write a spc file
Mar 18 20:17:51 <jjmcd> I don't know how applicable they are
Mar 18 20:18:03 <jjmcd> I am studying them to see what I can rip off tho
Mar 18 20:18:17 <Sparks> quaid: We can use the "old" tool to create docs from the Docbook XMLs, correct?
Mar 18 20:18:24 <quaid> well
Mar 18 20:18:27 <quaid> yes, but it's a port back
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Mar 18 20:18:40 <Sparks> Why?
Mar 18 20:18:46 <quaid> hmm
Mar 18 20:18:50 <jjmcd> We can create the docs from Pubblican, the only thing we are lacking is the spec file
Mar 18 20:18:55 <quaid> maybe not so much, but not sure if you can have
Mar 18 20:19:03 <quaid> as single set of XML files that is subservient to both toolchains.
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Mar 18 20:19:09 <Sparks> jjmcd: We aren't lacking a spec file... We are lacking proper information in the spec file
Mar 18 20:19:16 <jjmcd> yes
Mar 18 20:19:17 <quaid> e.g. fedora-doc-utils uses an rpm-info.xml file, etc.
Mar 18 20:19:30 <quaid> so what jjmcd is doing
Mar 18 20:19:37 <quaid> is probably saner, or equally sane.
Mar 18 20:19:44 <Sparks> Okay
Mar 18 20:19:47 <quaid> either we make one set of XML files work under both, or
Mar 18 20:19:59 <quaid> we make it work under Publican and hand-build a .spec file for each guide.
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Mar 18 20:20:04 <quaid> (which are largely the same spec files, aiui)
Mar 18 20:20:18 <quaid> in this case, jjmcd has the f-d-u and stickster_afk's brian to pick.
Mar 18 20:20:30 <jjmcd> I figure people write spec files every day and I'm possibly trainable
Mar 18 20:20:40 <quaid> with a six of one, half dozen of the other, let's pick whatever moves us the most cm forward.
Mar 18 20:21:02 <jjmcd> And getting away from a long ugly toolchain is a win imo
Mar 18 20:21:11 <quaid> hey!
Mar 18 20:21:13 <quaid> it's not ugly
Mar 18 20:21:16 <Sparks> jjmcd: I can show you a "proper" spec file
Mar 18 20:21:26 <quaid> it just doesn't have an upstream other than ourselves :)
Mar 18 20:21:30 <jjmcd> Well, maybe I should say to a toolchain that somebody else supports
Mar 18 20:21:37 * quaid has also heard that said about Publican, fwiw :D
Mar 18 20:21:50 <Sparks> Well, my concern is that we HAVE to get the Release Notes ready. I'd really like to get the security guide ready before F11, too.
Mar 18 20:22:00 * adamw (n=AdamW@redhat/adamw) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 18 20:22:33 <jjmcd> Ryan's work has really moved us much farther along that path than we are accustomed to being at this time
Mar 18 20:22:47 * kulll (n=kulll(a)220.127.116.11) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 18 20:22:47 <Sparks> +1
Mar 18 20:22:56 <Sparks> Okay, let's come back to the release notes in a bit.
Mar 18 20:23:40 <Sparks> jjmcd: Let's work on this more this weekend. I THINK I should be around.
Mar 18 20:23:48 <jjmcd> good deal
Mar 18 20:23:55 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - CMS Update <-- ke4qqq
Mar 18 20:24:03 <Sparks> I don't think ke4qqq is around tonight...
Mar 18 20:24:12 <radsy> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/publican-fedora-0.18-0.fc10,publi... worth testing
Mar 18 20:24:19 <Sparks> however I overheard him say that Zikula is now packaged.
Mar 18 20:24:31 <Sparks> and that he needs some help getting the modules packaged.
Mar 18 20:25:20 <Sparks> Does anyone have anything to add?
Mar 18 20:25:38 <Sparks> radsy: Thanks for the link. I'll try that out as it fixes one of my bugs.
Mar 18 20:25:45 <ianweller> .whoowns zikula
Mar 18 20:25:45 <zodbot> ianweller: No such package exists.
Mar 18 20:25:50 * ianweller shrugs :P
Mar 18 20:26:11 <Sparks> ianweller: I think it is still going through the process... b
Mar 18 20:26:15 <Sparks> but apparently is close
Mar 18 20:26:21 <ianweller> woo
Mar 18 20:26:57 <Sparks> Okay... next is...
Mar 18 20:26:59 * ReneP has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
Mar 18 20:26:59 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - DocsProject wiki pages changes
Mar 18 20:27:14 <Sparks> I'm going to hand the mic over to ianweller who has a few words to say.
Mar 18 20:27:26 <ianweller> actually what i had to say was wrt the wiki itself
Mar 18 20:27:28 <ianweller> so
Mar 18 20:27:35 * ianweller has changed the topic to: Docs Project - woo wiki woo
Mar 18 20:27:42 <ianweller> :)
Mar 18 20:28:04 <ianweller> um i was talking with mmcgrath yesterday and we'll soon be upgrading from MW 1.13.3 to 1.14.0
Mar 18 20:28:31 <ianweller> if our extensions still work
Mar 18 20:28:40 <ianweller> the release notes mention a multitude of bug fixes and some new features. it's mostly API stuff.
Mar 18 20:28:43 * ReneP (i=ReneP(a)a190119.studnetz.uni-leipzig.de) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 18 20:29:11 <ianweller> i got Main Page renamed to Fedora Project Wiki
Mar 18 20:29:27 <ianweller> and so now we only have three open tickets on fedora-wiki, which is nice.
Mar 18 20:29:43 * danielsmw claps approvingly.
Mar 18 20:30:01 <Sparks> What are those tickets? Anything big?
Mar 18 20:30:05 <ianweller> on friday, if i don't get distracted, i'll be going through the Packaging.psv file manually
Mar 18 20:30:14 <ianweller> Sparks: they're big and not really touchable, they're more infrastructure things
Mar 18 20:30:19 <ianweller> https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-wiki/query?status=new&status=assigned&sta...
Mar 18 20:30:25 <ianweller> except for ticket 2
Mar 18 20:30:28 <laubersm> I should be around some of the day - let me know and I'll help
Mar 18 20:30:40 <ianweller> laubersm: wonderful
Mar 18 20:31:28 <ianweller> and as always, if anybody has a problem with the wiki, they can add a ticket at fh.o/fedora-wiki
Mar 18 20:31:36 <ianweller> everything gets assigned to me by default so i'll see it
Mar 18 20:32:06 * Sparks writes a bot to log a ticket every minute
Mar 18 20:32:20 * ianweller opens a ticket at fedora-infrastructure to ban Sparks
Mar 18 20:32:27 <ianweller> ok i'm done :)
Mar 18 20:32:28 <laubersm> I think we need a new push for how renaming helps search - ie blog posts... I have been seeing renewed enthusiasm for wiki pages but bad name choices
Mar 18 20:32:30 <Sparks> touche
Mar 18 20:32:53 <ianweller> laubersm: if you can lead that effort that'd be great
Mar 18 20:33:01 <ianweller> i feel like i'm throwing things on you massively lol.
Mar 18 20:33:03 <laubersm> Marketing and Ambassadors have gotten on board (some) but so many more groups should move meeting pages and archive stuff!
Mar 18 20:33:10 * Sparks thought there was a howto in the help about naming schemes
Mar 18 20:33:17 <laubersm> Even that little bit would help a lot.
Mar 18 20:33:22 <Sparks> Maybe some education or something
Mar 18 20:33:28 <jjmcd> you expect people to read the instructions?
Mar 18 20:33:43 <Sparks> that or shock therapy
Mar 18 20:34:16 <zoglesby> ianweller: didn't you do a blog post about that recently?
Mar 18 20:34:19 <danielsmw> +1 to shock therapy.
Mar 18 20:34:23 <laubersm> There are what - over 10 of us here tonight - that is one blog post per day for over a week about how renaming helps and where to find the docs...
Mar 18 20:34:38 <ianweller> zoglesby: i think so
Mar 18 20:34:53 <ianweller> recently == long enough ago to forget
Mar 18 20:34:55 <ianweller> ;)
Mar 18 20:34:58 <zoglesby> lol
Mar 18 20:35:17 <laubersm> Yeah ianweller what happened to wiki tip a week? Did you go on to wiki tip per year?
Mar 18 20:35:26 <ianweller> laubersm: :) i realize that every now and then
Mar 18 20:35:29 <ianweller> and then get horribly distracted. :(
Mar 18 20:35:32 <zoglesby> I'm not sure how much people think about titles when they add to the wiki as much as it is get the info out there
Mar 18 20:35:36 <ianweller> and/or have nothing to write about
Mar 18 20:36:29 <laubersm> zoglesby, the new stuff isn't my biggest concern at the moment - it is cleaning up the old stuff - getting each group to say what stays and what goes.
Mar 18 20:36:36 <Sparks> ianweller: Is there a naming scheme on the wiki?
Mar 18 20:36:37 <joat> I think that once it slides off the front page (if it was there at all), people tend to use search functions rather than indexes
Mar 18 20:36:46 <laubersm> A new page was created recently and didn't show in the search - only it did - it was hit number about 800.
Mar 18 20:37:00 * che has quit ("Verlassend")
Mar 18 20:37:08 <jjmcd> I think newer pages show up last
Mar 18 20:37:19 <ianweller> Sparks: i really don't know what you're asking
Mar 18 20:37:20 * che (n=che@redhat/che) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 18 20:37:44 <Sparks> we need a page that describes the "proper" way to name a wiki page
Mar 18 20:37:52 <Sparks> guidelines... ideas... tips
Mar 18 20:37:53 <ianweller> thought we had one
Mar 18 20:37:59 <ianweller> somewhere in Help: or FedoraProject:
Mar 18 20:38:00 <laubersm> jjmcd, which is an infrastructure issue (and a ticket for ianweller) :) but about half those pages were meeting of F7 or FC4 or ....
Mar 18 20:38:00 <Sparks> that's my queston
Mar 18 20:38:23 <laubersm> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Contents
Mar 18 20:38:39 <laubersm> Sparks, you are looking for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Wiki_structure
Mar 18 20:38:46 <Sparks> yes, tu
Mar 18 20:39:48 <laubersm> I also need to get this incorporated somewhere: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Laubersm/wiki_cleanup_notes
Mar 18 20:40:17 <Sparks> Okay, I'll put something out on the blog tonight... If we see someone create a new page that is named poorly let's contact the creator and point them to that help page
Mar 18 20:41:40 <Sparks> How many "docs" pages do we still need to rename?
Mar 18 20:41:59 <laubersm> I think the DocsProject/* pages are all renamed - though many still need updating in content.
Mar 18 20:42:07 <laubersm> There are some Docs/* pages left though
Mar 18 20:42:13 <laubersm> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Docs_Project
Mar 18 20:42:17 <jjmcd> I found a few of the Docs/Beats pages the other night - had a different agenda tho so didn't rename them
Mar 18 20:42:37 <jjmcd> But I have a list
Mar 18 20:42:49 <laubersm> I have been trying to get them into a category or sub category....
Mar 18 20:43:32 <laubersm> I would also like to see the Docs Project category with a few less items - ie placed into reasonable sub categories...
Mar 18 20:44:33 <laubersm> It is a wiki - be bold - and don't wait for me :)
Mar 18 20:44:41 * Nirmal has quit ("Leaving")
Mar 18 20:44:48 <ianweller> or me :)
Mar 18 20:45:10 <jjmcd> third quarter buzzer
Mar 18 20:45:33 <Sparks> Okay, anything else for the wiki?
Mar 18 20:45:44 <ianweller> newp
Mar 18 20:45:53 * ianweller has changed the topic to: Docs Project - not the wiki
Mar 18 20:46:12 <laubersm> yeah - what he said
Mar 18 20:46:39 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Release Notes <-- ryanlerch & jjmcd
Mar 18 20:46:47 <jjmcd> I have a few notes
Mar 18 20:46:48 <Sparks> ryanlerch: jjmcd: What's the word?
Mar 18 20:46:53 <jjmcd> 1) Reviewed beats for Beta one page, looks pretty reasonable
Mar 18 20:47:00 <jjmcd> 2) quaid assures me we need to do nothing for the one-page
Mar 18 20:47:08 <jjmcd> 3) Need better update info on ext4, ke4qqq working on it
Mar 18 20:47:15 <jjmcd> 4) Just got an update on EDA from Chitlesh, outstanding
Mar 18 20:47:23 <jjmcd> 5) There are some places we are weak, but most we can deal with. We need the most help on the Networking beat
Mar 18 20:47:32 <jjmcd> 6) Ryan moved Publican source to git, I moved a little more from wiki to Publican, looks like Ryan did too. Still work to do there but not in really bad shape.
Mar 18 20:47:41 <jjmcd> 7) Wiki freeze 4/1, preview RNs due 15th, I estimate 2-3 days work between now and 15th
Mar 18 20:47:50 <jjmcd> that's the end of my notes
Mar 18 20:48:23 <ryanlerch> that about sums it up for me as well...
Mar 18 20:49:02 <Sparks> Okay... Any questions?
Mar 18 20:49:33 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Installation Guide <-- ke4qqq
Mar 18 20:49:42 <Sparks> And ke4qqq is no where to be found...
Mar 18 20:49:48 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Security Guide <-- sparks
Mar 18 20:49:53 <Sparks> Okay...
Mar 18 20:50:08 <Sparks> actually... radsy, do you have anything for the Security Guide?
Mar 18 20:50:40 <radsy> there are some minor changes that were brought up from the community review
Mar 18 20:50:47 <radsy> that i'd like to implement
Mar 18 20:50:54 <rudi> FWIW, there's a test build of the Publicanized IG now massively expanded with content from its RHEL equivalent available here: http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/Installation%20Guide/en-US/
Mar 18 20:51:11 <jjmcd> I was looking at that -- looks pretty good
Mar 18 20:51:13 * comraderaikov (n=dsl(a)18.104.22.168) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 18 20:51:15 <radsy> but still not sure what's happening with packaging etc.
Mar 18 20:51:31 <Sparks> rudi: I'm sorry, I forgot you were handling that... I'll come back to you in a second.
Mar 18 20:51:37 <rudi> NP
Mar 18 20:51:46 <Sparks> radsy: Okay, I just downloaded the new versions of Publican.
Mar 18 20:51:59 <jjmcd> Are we going to translate the guides to 40 languages, too?
Mar 18 20:52:12 <Sparks> radsy: I'm going to grab the latest from SVN and package it and put it on the ticket and also let jjmcd have a run at it
Mar 18 20:52:21 <radsy> ok great
Mar 18 20:52:27 <Sparks> jjmcd: Yes please
Mar 18 20:53:19 <radsy> i have been moved to mdious' old selinux confined services guide, so i'm stretching it to have the time to put in much more
Mar 18 20:53:28 <radsy> by release
Mar 18 20:53:39 <Sparks> cool
Mar 18 20:54:06 <radsy> some good feedback from the community however.
Mar 18 20:54:14 <radsy> that's about all for me
Mar 18 20:54:17 <Sparks> Okay, anything else for the Sec Guide?
Mar 18 20:54:46 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Installation Guide <-- rui
Mar 18 20:54:49 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Installation Guide <-- rudi
Mar 18 20:55:03 <Sparks> rudi: what have you got for us today?
Mar 18 20:55:45 <rudi> Well, still working on single-sourcing the Fedora and RHEL versions of the guide
Mar 18 20:56:16 <rudi> There's a lot of content that I've been able to scrounge from the RHEL version to expand the Fedora version
Mar 18 20:56:43 <rudi> (and that situation will reverse as RHEL 6 looms)
Mar 18 20:56:54 <rudi> The biggest visual change is lots of pretty pictures :)
Mar 18 20:57:16 <rudi> (Something like 40 or 50 screenshots now, in 36 languages)
Mar 18 20:57:22 <Sparks> Wow
Mar 18 20:58:00 <rudi> A really exciting thing on the L10N front is that there are six languages other than English that are also essentially complete
Mar 18 20:58:12 <Sparks> That's great!
Mar 18 20:58:36 <rudi> By a strange co-incidence, I'm currently working on the "Uninstalling RHEL" chapter
Mar 18 20:58:48 <rudi> Which dovetails nicely with the conversation on f-d-l
Mar 18 20:59:05 <Sparks> funny how it seems to work that way.
Mar 18 20:59:12 <rudi> So I'll be drawing on the wiki to augment and expand that material and make it more Fedora-specific
Mar 18 20:59:13 <Sparks> So will have be in the Installation guide?
Mar 18 20:59:33 * Tsagadai (n=ccurran@nat/redhat/x-9df8e12e00bd2639) has joined #Fedora-meeting
Mar 18 20:59:39 <Sparks> So will that be in the Installation guide?
Mar 18 20:59:53 <rudi> Seems like a logical place for it
Mar 18 21:00:13 <Sparks> in some sort of weird world, yes.
Mar 18 21:00:20 <Sparks> kinda like having to "start" to shut down
Mar 18 21:00:21 <Sparks> :)
Mar 18 21:00:29 <rudi> Heh indeed :)
Mar 18 21:00:32 <jjmcd> Sounds like Windows - to stop click start
Mar 18 21:00:38 <jjmcd> yeah
Mar 18 21:00:50 <rudi> I should have finished preparing that sometime in the next few hours
Mar 18 21:00:55 <laubersm> rudi - feel free to add to the wiki page too... at least a link that there is more info in <other place>
Mar 18 21:01:05 <rudi> thanks laubersm
Mar 18 21:01:23 <Sparks> quaid: No one follows us at this hour, correct?
Mar 18 21:01:45 <rudi> But anyway, that's about it.
Mar 18 21:01:51 <Sparks> cool
Mar 18 21:01:53 <Sparks> Anyone have any questions or comments?
Mar 18 21:01:53 * jjmcd doesn't hear anyone beating on the door
Mar 18 21:01:56 <danielsmw> I just wanted to say that a few of us ended up making an odfpy07 package which, when installed, fixes the problems we were having with mw-render. I'm going to try to get that approved as a fedora package and hopefully mw-render will be back in business.
Mar 18 21:02:02 <danielsmw> Then the UG can be converted and done.
Mar 18 21:02:05 <danielsmw> And that's all. :)
Mar 18 21:02:47 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on User Guide <--danielsmw
Mar 18 21:02:58 <Sparks> So what danielsmw said... :)
Mar 18 21:03:02 <danielsmw> No, really! That was all!
Mar 18 21:03:03 <danielsmw> Basically
Mar 18 21:03:09 <danielsmw> kirkz has been doing
Mar 18 21:03:10 <Sparks> Anyone have any questions?
Mar 18 21:03:14 <danielsmw> an amazing about of editing.
Mar 18 21:03:21 <danielsmw> so we just need to convert to xml.
Mar 18 21:03:38 <Sparks> excellent
Mar 18 21:04:05 <Sparks> Okay... moving right along...
Mar 18 21:04:07 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on SELinux Guide <-- mdious
Mar 18 21:04:25 <Sparks> I don't think mdious is onboard tonight.
Mar 18 21:04:32 <ianweller> he is not.
Mar 18 21:04:34 <radsy> i've been moved to this guide
Mar 18 21:04:40 * danielsmw has quit ("Lost terminal")
Mar 18 21:04:45 <Sparks> radsy: Okay, do you have anything you'd like to say?
Mar 18 21:04:50 <radsy> mdious left the docs team
Mar 18 21:05:17 <Sparks> really?
Mar 18 21:05:18 <ianweller> wha
Mar 18 21:05:25 <radsy> very little to report for the managing-confined-services guide, only minor changes and lots of planning
Mar 18 21:05:53 <radsy> he's gone to the other side of our office, the security response team
Mar 18 21:06:20 <Sparks> wow
Mar 18 21:06:33 <Sparks> Okay, so any questions about the SELinux guide?
Mar 18 21:06:36 <ianweller> :(
Mar 18 21:06:54 <radsy> thought you all knew :\
Mar 18 21:07:24 <Sparks> radsy: Nope, hadn't heard that
Mar 18 21:08:28 <radsy> well, no questions or major updates really, still early days
Mar 18 21:08:42 <Sparks> Okay...
Mar 18 21:08:44 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Open Discussion
Mar 18 21:08:46 <laubersm> Another thing I noticed that needs to be done at some point... is a cleanup of bugzilla (Classification: Fedora - Product: Fedora Documentation)
Mar 18 21:08:47 <Sparks> Anyone have anything?
Mar 18 21:08:50 <laubersm> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&classificat...
Mar 18 21:08:55 <laubersm> 83 bugs?
Mar 18 21:09:08 <laubersm> A lot look like they are auto assigned to quaid or stickster_afk
Mar 18 21:09:13 <Sparks> laubersm: I don't think I have access to those bugs...
Mar 18 21:09:23 <Sparks> quaid: You still here?
Mar 18 21:09:26 <laubersm> I closed a bunch as wont fix - EOL
Mar 18 21:09:37 <Sparks> laubersm: Cool.
Mar 18 21:09:49 <laubersm> .fasinfo laubersm
Mar 18 21:09:50 <Sparks> laubersm: How many are left?
Mar 18 21:09:51 <zodbot> laubersm: User: laubersm, Name: Susan Lauber, email: susan(a)ties.org, Creation: 2008-09-26, IRC Nick: , Timezone: US/Eastern, Locale: en, Extension: 5115531, GPG key ID: BFA10974
Mar 18 21:09:53 <zodbot> laubersm: Approved Groups: cla_done fedorabugs docs sysadmin ambassadors cla_fedora sysadmin-test gitinstall-guide gitwikirename gituser-guide
Mar 18 21:09:54 <zodbot> laubersm: Unapproved Groups: None
Mar 18 21:10:05 <laubersm> quaid, and stickster_afk helped me get fedorabugs group in fas
Mar 18 21:10:15 <laubersm> that let me work on some cleanup.
Mar 18 21:10:18 <Sparks> ahhh
Mar 18 21:10:19 <Sparks> cool
Mar 18 21:10:31 <Sparks> I'll check on that.
Mar 18 21:10:35 <laubersm> But I don't really have time right now to add that to my list of things to do.
Mar 18 21:10:46 <Sparks> Anyone have anything else?
Mar 18 21:11:32 <Sparks> 5
Mar 18 21:11:33 <Sparks> 4
Mar 18 21:11:35 <Sparks> 3
Mar 18 21:11:36 <Sparks> 2
Mar 18 21:11:37 <Sparks> 1
Mar 18 21:11:46 <Sparks> Thanks everyone for coming!
Mar 18 21:11:46 <Sparks> </meeting>
Mar 25 20:00:00 <Sparks> Roll Call!
Mar 25 20:00:00 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings
Mar 25 20:00:08 * Sparks is here
Mar 25 20:00:38 * jjmcd yo
Mar 25 20:00:58 * n9986_ (n=nandeep(a)22.214.171.124) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 25 20:02:10 <Sparks> Where is everyone?
Mar 25 20:02:42 * glezos is here
Mar 25 20:03:14 <glezos> afk, but pingable
Mar 25 20:03:17 * laubersm is here
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Mar 25 20:07:20 2009
Mar 25 20:07:20 * Now talking on #fedora-meeting
Mar 25 20:07:20 * Topic for #fedora-meeting is: Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings
Mar 25 20:07:20 * Topic for #fedora-meeting set by Sparks at Wed Mar 25 19:59:50 2009
Mar 25 20:07:22 <ke4qqq> which one?? I only see beta release notes
Mar 25 20:07:27 <ke4qqq> and f10 admin something
Mar 25 20:07:34 <Sparks> Sorry about that, my computer went stupid.
Mar 25 20:08:37 <Sparks> Let's start over again... :)
Mar 25 20:08:42 <Sparks> Roll call!
Mar 25 20:08:45 * Sparks is here (I think)
Mar 25 20:08:46 * ke4qqq is here
Mar 25 20:09:05 * jjmcd qrv
Mar 25 20:09:10 * laubersm is here
Mar 25 20:09:25 * stickster_afk is now known as stickster
Mar 25 20:09:47 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Beta Announcement
Mar 25 20:10:12 * ianweller rolls in
Mar 25 20:10:23 <Sparks> Okay, there was a fairly good discussion on f-docs-l about how to author the Beta Announcement...
Mar 25 20:10:27 <Sparks> and what should be in it...
Mar 25 20:10:36 <Sparks> and how much detail to put into it...
Mar 25 20:10:38 * mdomsch (n=mdomsch(a)cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 25 20:10:46 <Sparks> and who are target audience is.
Mar 25 20:10:57 * ryanlerch (n=rlerch@nat/redhat/x-9e2fb1f14674b40d) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 25 20:11:11 <Sparks> Let's see if we can get those questions answered.
Mar 25 20:11:17 * stickster shows up late -- sorry
Mar 25 20:11:39 <Sparks> Does anyone have any concerns about how the Beta Announcement looks right now in Gobby (or on the wiki)?
Mar 25 20:12:24 <Sparks> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F11_Beta_Announcement
Mar 25 20:12:38 <jjmcd> last week we talked about three groups of no more than five bullets I see we have added some, I don't have a problem with that but are we all agreeing that more bullets is ok?
Mar 25 20:12:47 <laubersm> I like it - though with the way the other discussions are going I wonder about making the link to the Beta Release Notes more prominent
Mar 25 20:12:49 * ianweller takes a peek
Mar 25 20:13:07 <stickster> The audience for the announcement falls into a couple groups
Mar 25 20:13:17 <stickster> 1. community members and users, i.e. most likely testers
Mar 25 20:13:31 <stickster> 2. journalists and web aggies
Mar 25 20:13:56 * Sparks notes stickster has made a change in Gobby...
Mar 25 20:14:26 * stickster changed the kimono thing, which always sounded silly-naughty as opposed to the more neutral car talk version
Mar 25 20:14:49 <jjmcd> Kinda borrowed that from Icom's IC7800 announcement
Mar 25 20:14:54 <Sparks> jjmcd: I don't like being held to an arbitrary standard (three groups of five bullets).
Mar 25 20:15:07 <Sparks> jjmcd: If we have more to say or less to say then we should just say what we need to say.
Mar 25 20:15:20 <ke4qqq> the gcc line doesn't make sense to me.
Mar 25 20:15:30 <jjmcd> Yeah, well, that wasn't my recommendation, but I didn't want others to think it was too gangly
Mar 25 20:15:58 <Sparks> ke4qqq: good catch
Mar 25 20:16:20 <ke4qqq> there is at least a period missing
Mar 25 20:16:40 <jjmcd> Well, that needs more prominence. C++ code is affected by the change
Mar 25 20:16:58 <jjmcd> Some existing code will break
Mar 25 20:17:10 <stickster> I just sent a bunch of stuff to the wrong channel... I'm such a dweeb.
Mar 25 20:17:22 * stickster transcribes
Mar 25 20:17:23 <stickster> One other thing that I am still on the fence about is the call-out of the Linux Format cover blurb.
Mar 25 20:17:30 <stickster> The whole blurb, for those who haven't seen it, was "Fedora 10 kicks Ubuntu's ass."
Mar 25 20:17:35 <stickster> Whether or not you tend to agree, I think calling that particular blurb out is skirting a troubled line.
Mar 25 20:17:40 <stickster> We don't need to make someone else look worse for us to look good, I think.
Mar 25 20:17:42 <jjmcd> We took out Ubuntu
Mar 25 20:17:42 <ke4qqq> so utilizes doesn't carry the notion that it's been upgraded.
Mar 25 20:17:50 <jjmcd> replaced it with ...
Mar 25 20:18:01 <ke4qqq> stickster: +1 we don't care about Ubuntu
Mar 25 20:18:12 <stickster> jjmcd: I realize that, but it's not going to be hard for people to trace the quote and then take that as us having a chip on our shoulder.
Mar 25 20:18:15 <ke4qqq> and certainly don't want to call attentiont to them in our own release announcement.
Mar 25 20:18:32 <jjmcd> Ahhh, yeah, prolly right.
Mar 25 20:18:41 <stickster> From a marketing perspective, that's a total party foul.
Mar 25 20:19:10 <jjmcd> would anyone bother?
Mar 25 20:19:22 <quaid> yep
Mar 25 20:19:24 * stickster doesn't want to test those waters.
Mar 25 20:19:28 <ianweller> should we be using https for wiki urls?
Mar 25 20:19:34 <jjmcd> Yeah, I see that
Mar 25 20:19:37 <quaid> ianweller: I thought not?
Mar 25 20:19:43 <jjmcd> ianweller I thought I caught those
Mar 25 20:19:48 <quaid> or you mean to get the 'latest' without caching
Mar 25 20:20:05 <ianweller> well it bothers people who are logged in but i guess if we're caching, then don't
Mar 25 20:20:07 <stickster> Do people without a login get an annoying credentials input box if they use https://?
Mar 25 20:20:22 <ke4qqq> no
Mar 25 20:20:26 <jjmcd> No, I don't thnk so
Mar 25 20:20:30 <ke4qqq> they just have to do the entire session thing
Mar 25 20:20:33 <ke4qqq> with ssl
Mar 25 20:20:39 <Sparks> and that's bad?
Mar 25 20:20:39 <ke4qqq> which is more expensive for our infrastructure
Mar 25 20:20:40 <stickster> Oh, that's no fun then.
Mar 25 20:20:44 <ke4qqq> computationally
Mar 25 20:20:48 <quaid> and we don't get the ncaching benefit
Mar 25 20:20:56 <ke4qqq> right
Mar 25 20:21:03 <stickster> Yeah, use http:// unless it's going to an audience you know is entirely (or almost entirely) credentialed
Mar 25 20:21:09 <ke4qqq> that too
Mar 25 20:21:11 <Sparks> +1
Mar 25 20:22:16 <stickster> One other issue that was raised by someone in Marketing -- apparently "Is a better OS than Fedora 10 even possible?" comes off as a very offensive statement in at least one other language
Mar 25 20:22:20 <ke4qqq> I just pulled the kicks ass sentence out. flame me if you wish
Mar 25 20:22:51 <quaid> stickster: huh, really?
Mar 25 20:22:59 <Sparks> stickster: Really? I wonder what it translates to.
Mar 25 20:23:11 <ke4qqq> stickster: I gotta admit if we aren't transliterating what is the evil inference?
Mar 25 20:23:20 <ke4qqq> s/admit/ask
Mar 25 20:23:25 <stickster> I think it's an idiomatic or cultural thing, as opposed to "when you translate this, it says 'I would like to date your teenage daughter.'"
Mar 25 20:23:51 <stickster> What if we restated that in some way?
Mar 25 20:24:19 <ke4qqq> How about - While a better OS is hard to imagine - Fp.o has made the beta of Fedora 11 for you to realize how good it is now
Mar 25 20:24:19 <Sparks> Can you get any better than Fedora 10?
Mar 25 20:24:21 <stickster> Like, "Users, sysadmins, and press agree -- Fedora 10 outdid itself in terms of <blah, blah, blah>"
Mar 25 20:24:23 <ke4qqq> or something along those lines
Mar 25 20:24:26 <stickster> Sparks: We'd better hope so
Mar 25 20:24:32 <stickster> Oh, that was a suggestion, oops :-D
Mar 25 20:24:38 <Sparks> stickster: Gees
Mar 25 20:25:31 * radsy (n=scott(a)124-171-172-73.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 25 20:25:40 <Sparks> Ummm... Do we even have "JUICY QUOTE 1"?
Mar 25 20:25:57 <ke4qqq> Sparks: we at least have Fedora 10 kicks ubuntus ass
Mar 25 20:25:59 <quaid> +1 to reference the agreed sources that Fedora 10 rox'd
Mar 25 20:26:03 <stickster> Sparks: Shouldn't be hard to find
Mar 25 20:26:08 <stickster> We got great press coverage.
Mar 25 20:26:11 <stickster> ke4qqq: :-D
Mar 25 20:26:18 <Sparks> :)
Mar 25 20:26:18 <laubersm> arg - give him a minute - he'll find one. :)
Mar 25 20:26:32 <Sparks> laubersm: nice type on top of the page... :)
Mar 25 20:27:04 <laubersm> did I get it all back out correctly?
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Mar 25 20:27:40 <stickster> I'm looking up some press now, sorry, FF is slow
Mar 25 20:27:46 <Sparks> laubersm: yeah...
Mar 25 20:27:51 <stickster> by which I mean "Not instantaneously mind melding."
Mar 25 20:28:11 <ke4qqq> cause of course you are using minefield in rawhide :)
Mar 25 20:28:21 <Sparks> Is the bugzilla link supposed to be https://?
Mar 25 20:28:28 <ianweller> Sparks: yes
Mar 25 20:28:36 <Sparks> ianweller: TU
Mar 25 20:28:37 <ianweller> it doesn't accept http:// connections and redirects to https anyway
Mar 25 20:28:45 <ke4qqq> yeah http redirects to https
Mar 25 20:29:02 <Sparks> laubersm: Don't like contractions?
Mar 25 20:29:10 <quaid> nope
Mar 25 20:29:14 <laubersm> nope
Mar 25 20:29:23 <Sparks> sound clunky to my southern ear
Mar 25 20:29:46 <ke4qqq> mine too
Mar 25 20:29:46 <laubersm> they also do not always translate well - even if most translators know how to deal with them
Mar 25 20:30:03 <ke4qqq> true
Mar 25 20:30:04 <quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Style_Guide_-_General_Guidelin...
Mar 25 20:30:10 <laubersm> that too
Mar 25 20:30:40 <Sparks> quaid: Oh we can change that... it's in the wiki...
Mar 25 20:30:55 <ke4qqq> P in project is capitalized right?
Mar 25 20:31:10 <quaid> yes
Mar 25 20:31:16 <quaid> the formal project name
Mar 25 20:31:19 <ke4qqq> just making sure I wasn't crazy
Mar 25 20:31:46 <quaid> for those curious about various comments here
Mar 25 20:31:53 <quaid> we are writing together via gobby
Mar 25 20:32:01 <Sparks> ke4qqq: That top part is commented out. Should we use some of that or just open up the document with "The wait is over."
Mar 25 20:32:02 <Sparks> ?\
Mar 25 20:32:06 <ke4qqq> why is Gnome 2.26 and kde 4.2 not on their own line
Mar 25 20:32:18 <quaid> ke4qqq: contraction :)
Mar 25 20:32:20 <Sparks> ke4qqq: Because we were trying to conform
Mar 25 20:32:37 <laubersm> ke4qqq, we condensed to a single bullet of updated desktops...
Mar 25 20:32:49 <ke4qqq> combining them makes it seem like an insignificant update
Mar 25 20:32:52 <quaid> G then K is alpha
Mar 25 20:32:53 <Sparks> Personally, I think they are big ticket items and could be separated if we have enough "stuff" to put behind them
Mar 25 20:33:24 <quaid> isn't 4.2 in F10
Mar 25 20:33:25 <quaid> ?
Mar 25 20:33:44 <ke4qqq> yes, but is debuting in F11
Mar 25 20:33:49 <ke4qqq> iirc
Mar 25 20:34:03 <jjmcd> I think it was in the talking points
Mar 25 20:34:07 <quaid> honey, she can't re-debut
Mar 25 20:34:13 <quaid> :)
Mar 25 20:34:42 <ke4qqq> sure - just like xfs support :)
Mar 25 20:34:47 <laubersm> Sparks, How much "stuff" do you want in the *announce* page?
Mar 25 20:34:58 <laubersm> that is the question that keeps comin round
Mar 25 20:35:06 <Sparks> Just enough to reel them in.
Mar 25 20:35:11 <jjmcd> Exactly - I would argue the gnome and kde updates ARE minor
Mar 25 20:35:16 <Sparks> You don't want to say you have a car for sale
Mar 25 20:35:25 <Sparks> You want to say you have a fast, red car for sale
Mar 25 20:35:39 <jjmcd> Hey - you ain't selling my car!
Mar 25 20:35:48 <Sparks> jjmcd: too late
Mar 25 20:36:03 <ke4qqq> so since press is one of our target demographics - I think a column listing 'importnant' stuff is important, if they have to read the details it may not get covered.
Mar 25 20:36:05 <quaid> can't we link them to longer info?
Mar 25 20:36:16 <jjmcd> We do
Mar 25 20:36:29 <jjmcd> We link to the beta rn's and also to the beats
Mar 25 20:36:31 <quaid> then lots of shortness is better than fewer longer bits
Mar 25 20:36:33 <laubersm> anyone who is looking for it will find it with a single bullet saying that all the desktops have been updated to the latest version and
Mar 25 20:36:35 <Sparks> Yeah to the release notes
Mar 25 20:36:49 <laubersm> those that don't know they need it won't care that it is not separate bullets
Mar 25 20:36:55 <Sparks> Then you have a grocery list
Mar 25 20:37:01 <laubersm> The RN then has all the details in their own sections
Mar 25 20:37:06 <quaid> Sparks: with adjectives
Mar 25 20:37:13 <jjmcd> We also have a link to the feature list
Mar 25 20:37:22 <quaid> Fantastic new sparkling beans in a can!
Mar 25 20:37:29 <quaid> v .
Mar 25 20:37:32 <quaid> beans
Mar 25 20:37:42 <ke4qqq> latest vintage sparkling beans in a can :)
Mar 25 20:37:48 <Sparks> yikes
Mar 25 20:37:52 <Sparks> no more beans! :)
Mar 25 20:37:59 <jjmcd> And you don't learn that you need a fancy new $1000 can opener until you get to the beats
Mar 25 20:38:10 <laubersm> and btw - the feature list needs some love too - there was a request to f-d-l a while back to wordsmith it and I have done some but it needs much more...
Mar 25 20:38:20 <Sparks> The desktop statement just sounds bland to me
Mar 25 20:38:38 <jjmcd> It kind of is ... there are no really cool user features
Mar 25 20:38:55 <Sparks> Didn't they do anything to spice up the desktop?
Mar 25 20:39:09 <ke4qqq> they moved to kde 4.2 and gnome 2.26
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Mar 25 20:39:21 <Sparks> so they just changed the number?
Mar 25 20:39:29 <laubersm> and fixed the bugs
Mar 25 20:39:44 <laubersm> they changed how sound works in gnome
Mar 25 20:39:57 <laubersm> and broke it elsewhere
Mar 25 20:39:58 <jjmcd> I think there were some enablers there, too, but nothing earth shattering
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Mar 25 20:40:11 <ke4qqq> 20 second startup?
Mar 25 20:40:12 * laubersm is kidding
Mar 25 20:40:33 <ke4qqq> Auto Bug Reporting Tool?
Mar 25 20:40:36 <Sparks> Gnome 2.26 has been updated to include new sound controls, a faster startup, and an ATM that will funnel money directly into your pocket
Mar 25 20:41:10 <ke4qqq> tbird3
Mar 25 20:41:39 <ke4qqq> delta rpms? preso
Mar 25 20:41:42 <ke4qqq> presto
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Mar 25 20:41:55 <ke4qqq> ohhhh the big one
Mar 25 20:41:57 <laubersm> ke4qqq, are you suggesting we replace some of the existing bullets with these other choices?
Mar 25 20:41:58 <ke4qqq> OPENCHANGE
Mar 25 20:42:10 <ke4qqq> I am answering Sparks question
Mar 25 20:42:18 * laubersm looks back....
Mar 25 20:42:27 <Sparks> ke4qqq: What was my question?!?
Mar 25 20:42:34 <Sparks> Oh
Mar 25 20:42:36 <Sparks> Bah
Mar 25 20:42:40 <laubersm> ahh
Mar 25 20:42:41 <ke4qqq> 20:38 < Sparks> Didn't they do anything to spice up the desktop?
Mar 25 20:42:50 <ke4qqq> but we HAVE to cover openchange
Mar 25 20:42:53 <ke4qqq> that's HUGE
Mar 25 20:43:05 <ke4qqq> first distro to have it
Mar 25 20:43:05 <laubersm> ke4qqq, but those are not parts of the desktop envirment themselves... they are separate apps
Mar 25 20:43:05 <stickster> We don't need to cover every single change in the Beta announcement
Mar 25 20:43:07 <Sparks> Openchange?
Mar 25 20:43:20 <ke4qqq> native mapi library for linux
Mar 25 20:43:32 <ke4qqq> corporate drones like me rejoice
Mar 25 20:43:35 <laubersm> wow!!!
Mar 25 20:43:36 <Sparks> :)
Mar 25 20:43:38 <laubersm> what's that mean?
Mar 25 20:43:53 <ke4qqq> native exchange access for evolution and kdepim
Mar 25 20:44:05 <laubersm> ick
Mar 25 20:44:10 <Sparks> Are we really going to say "Microsoft" in our announcement?
Mar 25 20:44:13 <jjmcd> Not nearly as HUGE as qtel
Mar 25 20:44:17 <Sparks> That's just bad juju right there
Mar 25 20:44:21 <laubersm> but I can see why corp drones rejoice
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Mar 25 20:44:57 <ke4qqq> perhaps my perspective is skewed on that point
Mar 25 20:45:05 <ke4qqq> I'll defer to the wisdom of others
Mar 25 20:45:11 <quaid> Sparks: it's a trademark
Mar 25 20:45:21 <ke4qqq> though I think it's huge.
Mar 25 20:45:25 <ke4qqq> jjmcd: what's qtel?
Mar 25 20:45:36 <quaid> it's just habit to use trademarks of other people correctly, it's respectful
Mar 25 20:45:36 <jjmcd> echolink client - huge to a different audience
Mar 25 20:45:46 <laubersm> we are already saying Microsoft - with the cross compiler.
Mar 25 20:45:47 <stickster> We can get away with just the first one, though, which is also standard
Mar 25 20:45:55 <quaid> Sparks: also, I don't like to concede the generic word 'windows' to MSFT
Mar 25 20:46:03 <Sparks> Yeah... but it points out that there are other OSs to deal with. We shouldn't be point out anyone else's OS... IMO
Mar 25 20:46:13 <stickster> quaid: The problem is, now it reads like it's a Microsoft product we're including.
Mar 25 20:46:13 <quaid> stickster: not really iirc aiui
Mar 25 20:46:24 <quaid> ok then reword it
Mar 25 20:46:32 <Sparks> stickster: yeah
Mar 25 20:46:35 <quaid> how about
Mar 25 20:46:45 <stickster> dammit, that's not right either
Mar 25 20:46:58 <stickster> There you go
Mar 25 20:47:02 <quaid> not MS
Mar 25 20:47:04 <Sparks> Cross compiler for that "OtherOS"
Mar 25 20:47:16 <quaid> heh
Mar 25 20:47:17 <Sparks> ")
Mar 25 20:47:19 <Sparks> :)
Mar 25 20:47:42 <jjmcd> "Windows from that evil empire in Washington"?
Mar 25 20:47:55 * G_work_ is now known as G_work
Mar 25 20:48:23 * laubersm seems to remember that same issue/discussion when that item reached feature review as well....
Mar 25 20:48:37 * ke4qqq notes we are 47 minutes into the meeting.
Mar 25 20:48:40 * EvilBob (n=EvilBob@fedora/bobjensen) has joined #Fedora-Meeting
Mar 25 20:49:01 <quaid> who summoned EvilBob ?!?!
Mar 25 20:49:13 <jjmcd> But we have made huge improvements in the announcement
Mar 25 20:49:14 <Sparks> ke4qqq: We are going over tonight
Mar 25 20:49:18 <quaid> ok, working meeting is tough
Mar 25 20:49:28 <quaid> Sparks: do you want to cover anything else within the hour
Mar 25 20:49:30 <ke4qqq> I am not objecting - just keeping us mindful
Mar 25 20:49:35 <stickster> Is there not Publican stuff on the agenda?
Mar 25 20:49:36 <ke4qqq> of the time
Mar 25 20:49:37 <quaid> just in case ppl have to go?
Mar 25 20:49:47 <Sparks> Yeah, does anyone need to bail at the top of the hour?
Mar 25 20:49:50 <quaid> we could take apause on the announcement
Mar 25 20:50:00 <stickster> Sparks: Unfortch, I do
Mar 25 20:50:00 <quaid> I just read it top to bottom and did a few edits, it's quite there
Mar 25 20:50:03 <Sparks> bah
Mar 25 20:50:06 <Sparks> Okay...
Mar 25 20:50:14 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Publican Discussion
Mar 25 20:50:25 <Sparks> We'll jump back on the announcement in a few...
Mar 25 20:50:36 <Sparks> So there is a problem.
Mar 25 20:50:51 <jjmcd> multiples, actually
Mar 25 20:50:55 <Sparks> We've been trying to shoehorn Publican into Fedora for the past three releases...
Mar 25 20:51:16 <Sparks> and I know that I've gone rounds with Publican trying to get it to meet my needs...
Mar 25 20:51:18 <stickster> Er, two, right?
Mar 25 20:51:21 <Sparks> with some success.
Mar 25 20:51:24 <stickster> Anyway, it's been a while coming.
Mar 25 20:51:38 <Sparks> I'm going to count three problems...
Mar 25 20:51:58 <Sparks> 1) The naming schema does not match Fedora naming schema.
Mar 25 20:52:21 <Sparks> 2) The Translators don't get statistics from Publican packages.
Mar 25 20:52:37 <Sparks> 3) Support is lacking for changes that need to be made for Fedora.
Mar 25 20:52:47 <ke4qqq> ?
Mar 25 20:52:49 <quaid> on #2, stats are available via CLI tools only, which breaks team workflow
Mar 25 20:52:56 <Sparks> quaid: Thanks
Mar 25 20:53:02 <quaid> on #1, this is packaging naming in specific
Mar 25 20:53:08 <Sparks> right
Mar 25 20:53:09 <jjmcd> It also looks as if the structure of the various langs produced by Publican is different and something else we may need to deal with
Mar 25 20:53:16 <quaid> ke4qqq: go ahead
Mar 25 20:53:24 <quaid> jjmcd: good point
Mar 25 20:53:31 <quaid> previous tools put all langs in one package
Mar 25 20:53:35 <stickster> Another note on #2, Spot and I have been working on some folks internally to break loose some hours to pitch in code that lets Tx handle Publican.
Mar 25 20:53:37 <quaid> publican produces 1 package per lang
Mar 25 20:53:49 <quaid> meaning we have x*y new packages
Mar 25 20:54:05 <Sparks> and each has to be evaluated
Mar 25 20:54:14 <stickster> 1 SRPM per lang?
Mar 25 20:54:14 <ke4qqq> can you explain #3 - should I be taking that as upstream doesn't want to help us, or that they are abandoning?
Mar 25 20:54:33 <ke4qqq> stickster: what has your success level been?
Mar 25 20:54:36 <jjmcd> But if we need to hack the rpm, we *MAY* be able to fix that anyway
Mar 25 20:54:43 <stickster> ke4qqq: Hang on, let's resolve these questions first
Mar 25 20:54:46 <ke4qqq> ok
Mar 25 20:54:47 <quaid> ke4qqq: features requested have primarily been met with an answer that they are not pertinent to the Publican audience.
Mar 25 20:54:53 <stickster> quaid: Is that 1 SRPM per lang?
Mar 25 20:54:56 <Sparks> ke4qqq: I have moderate success with getting things fixed upstream but I've also been told that fixes for "silly" Fedora problems won't be fixed.
Mar 25 20:55:02 <Sparks> which is a problem
Mar 25 20:55:04 <jjmcd> stickster: yes
Mar 25 20:55:10 <quaid> ke4qqq: and either cannot be done as it is written or there are no resources to fix but a patch is welcome.\
Mar 25 20:55:11 <stickster> Oh. Ew.
Mar 25 20:55:36 <quaid> yeah, forgot about that one
Mar 25 20:55:52 <Sparks> yeah, that one has been brewing for a while
Mar 25 20:55:53 <ke4qqq> wow - guess that's one way to get package count up
Mar 25 20:56:02 <quaid> *snort*
Mar 25 20:56:10 <stickster> That should be part of any spec file fix that we brew up, if we bother at all.
Mar 25 20:56:13 <Sparks> Does anyone have any questions about #1?
Mar 25 20:56:38 <Sparks> (I'm going to dig up an email in a sec...)
Mar 25 20:56:39 <jjmcd> does our package HAVE to be called f-r-n
Mar 25 20:56:52 <quaid> jjmcd: ask f13
Mar 25 20:57:12 <Sparks> jjmcd: The problem stems from the product number being put into the name.
Mar 25 20:57:18 <stickster> jjmcd: It needs to carry the word "fedora-" at the front, AIUI, since it's part of the branding that would be removed in a remix.
Mar 25 20:57:42 <f13> ... what name would you prefer?
Mar 25 20:58:11 <Sparks> It is the difference between fedora-security-guide and fedora-security-guide-10
Mar 25 20:58:20 <jjmcd> I was wondering why not allow Publican to put the release number in the package name
Mar 25 20:58:35 <f13> eeew
Mar 25 20:58:39 <Sparks> Well, right now you can't turn it off
Mar 25 20:58:42 <f13> versions should never be in the name.
Mar 25 20:58:54 <Sparks> and the Security Guide is not tied directly to ANY specific release of Fedora
Mar 25 20:59:15 <jjmcd> Why not allow people to install the NEXT version of release notes to study before installing?
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Mar 25 20:59:31 <quaid> jjmcd: right, that's the use case being argued for
Mar 25 20:59:33 <stickster> jjmcd: That was kind of my question. It's actually a useful thing IMHO
Mar 25 20:59:43 <quaid> but it's a packaging committee discussion, really
Mar 25 20:59:51 <quaid> and someone has to care enough to take it there
Mar 25 20:59:55 <f13> you can upgrade your release notes
Mar 25 21:00:11 <f13> do you think that somebody would want to go back and read the old ones locally once that has been done?
Mar 25 21:00:19 <quaid> f13: it's for sysadmins
Mar 25 21:00:25 <f13> (and why would they install the package when the newer release notes are available on the web?)
Mar 25 21:00:25 <quaid> to have multiple versions of one guide
Mar 25 21:00:25 <stickster> f13: And for writers.
Mar 25 21:00:27 <quaid> one per package
Mar 25 21:00:27 <laubersm> f13: yes
Mar 25 21:00:39 <ke4qqq> so do we have someone lobbying FPC for this?
Mar 25 21:00:51 <quaid> ke4qqq: not from Docs
Mar 25 21:00:57 <quaid> that I know of
Mar 25 21:01:02 <quaid> nor do I see consensus that is the way to go :L)
Mar 25 21:01:04 <Sparks> I don't have a problem having the number there but I want the option to turn it off.
Mar 25 21:01:17 <Sparks> Because I don't want it in my document.
Mar 25 21:01:40 <jjmcd> I'm not convinced it is the right answer, but I'm not convinced it isn't
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Mar 25 21:02:02 <quaid> seems a legit use case to me
Mar 25 21:02:09 <quaid> but it's freaking late to bring the case
Mar 25 21:02:15 <stickster> Sparks: So the problem here is that Publican doesn't predict any documentation that's not tied to a specific software release
Mar 25 21:02:17 <Sparks> I'd be happy to fight the battle with the FPC but Publican is broken for me
Mar 25 21:02:24 <jjmcd> Yeah, whatever we do we need to work with the tools we got
Mar 25 21:02:50 <Sparks> stickster: You cannot tell Publican to NOT use the product number. So everything HAS to be tied to a specific release.
Mar 25 21:03:04 <quaid> how much work would it be to add PDF to fedora-doc-utils and package the whole thing?
Mar 25 21:03:23 <quaid> s/add/fix/
Mar 25 21:03:25 <Sparks> quaid: Would you like me to paste the five options?
Mar 25 21:03:32 <jjmcd> And my leaning is to continue down the Publican path, so we are at least a baby step closer come F12 time
Mar 25 21:03:54 <Sparks> jjmcd: We wouldn't be
Mar 25 21:04:07 <Sparks> Okay... earlier I posted an email to the f-docs-l...
Mar 25 21:04:23 <stickster> I would like to try my hand at fixing this problem, but it's hours that I don't tend to have anymore :-(
Mar 25 21:04:24 <Sparks> that had five options for moving forward because I don't tread water that well...
Mar 25 21:04:31 <quaid> jjmcd: someone from the wide community needs to be a Publican contributor, work on Fedora Docs needs, and maybe take over the package.
Mar 25 21:04:39 <Sparks> 1. Use Publican for a guide but munge through to an RPM that Fedora will
Mar 25 21:04:39 <Sparks> consume; use jjmcd's script or a new .spec file
Mar 25 21:04:39 <Sparks> 2. Fork Publican and remove the variable that puts the version # in the
Mar 25 21:04:39 <Sparks> name
Mar 25 21:04:39 <Sparks> 3. Get the Packaging Committee to amend the rules
Mar 25 21:04:39 <Sparks> 4. Use Publican for HTML + PDF and fedora-doc-utils for RPM
Mar 25 21:04:39 <Sparks> 5. Use f-doc-utils exclusively
Mar 25 21:04:40 <stickster> Because I *think* we could add needed support to the publican-fedora brand pacakge.
Mar 25 21:04:43 <stickster> *package.
Mar 25 21:05:21 <Sparks> I don't have a problem with forking the development at this point.
Mar 25 21:05:21 <quaid> jjmcd: iirc jfearn has stated that he'd love to not maintain the package
Mar 25 21:05:32 <laubersm> I like the idea of a FPC exception for F11 name with version and long term fix publican to allow no version number
Mar 25 21:05:37 <stickster> I don't think a fork is required, we could put needed support in the Makefile.fedora
Mar 25 21:05:41 <quaid> jjmcd: without that level of commitment from some general Fedoran, I fear we'll always be second citizens in the Publican audience
Mar 25 21:05:50 <ke4qqq> I am rapidly favoring the fork option. Especially if upstream considers these "silly"
Mar 25 21:06:11 * stickster thinks we should not rush to using the word "fork" if people here simply aren't aware of what we can apply to the publican-fedora package.
Mar 25 21:06:12 <jjmcd> I don't think the number is the only problem
Mar 25 21:06:18 <stickster> Let's put that term aside for a moment.
Mar 25 21:06:46 <Sparks> stickster: It's not in the makefile
Mar 25 21:06:57 <Sparks> stickster: It is in the core of Publican
Mar 25 21:07:20 <stickster> Sparks: Well, the thing creating the specfile is an XSL sheet, yes?
Mar 25 21:07:55 <Sparks> stickster: No idea. I don't remember where I pulled that line of code out and beat it with a hammer.
Mar 25 21:08:18 <Sparks> stickster: But if it were that easy, why all the problems four months later?
Mar 25 21:08:21 <stickster> So, as a fellow Docs guy, I'm not really comfortable with people yelling "Fork! Fork!" when we don't fully grok the technical stuff
Mar 25 21:08:32 <stickster> Because then it seems like we really don't know why we're forking.
Mar 25 21:08:39 <Sparks> Spoon! Spoon!
Mar 25 21:08:42 <stickster> heh
Mar 25 21:09:01 <jjmcd> But it does look to me, at least for F11, that option 4 is the straightest line
Mar 25 21:09:29 <stickster> jjmcd: The problem is that fedora-doc-utils won't work with Publican formatted materials, and vice versa.
Mar 25 21:09:32 <stickster> They are mutually incompatible.
Mar 25 21:09:56 <stickster> (at least, not without some hacking, which, if we're going to do it, we might as well try to do with Publican.)
Mar 25 21:10:02 <stickster> er, publican-fedora
Mar 25 21:10:02 <jjmcd> But since all we need is basically a specfile, is it really that big of a deal?
Mar 25 21:10:08 <Sparks> yeah, we need to get PDF action into fedora-doc-utils IF that is something we want to offer
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Mar 25 21:10:39 <stickster> I'll take a task of looking at Publican up through this weekend to see what we can fix. If I don't think it can be done, I should at least explain why to the list.
Mar 25 21:10:45 <jjmcd> Publican makes docs we can use, it just doesn't package them
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Mar 25 21:11:32 * stickster notes that if jfearn is amenable to our taking over publican-fedora, we should try and implement fixes there. But if the architecture doesn't allow it, we move on.
Mar 25 21:11:42 <stickster> Or at least, I will :-)
Mar 25 21:11:44 <Sparks> jjmcd: We make docs we can use... That last step is putting them in the hands of everyone else
Mar 25 21:12:02 <jjmcd> Yes, but all that really is is packaging
Mar 25 21:12:15 * stickster has to bail, late
Mar 25 21:12:24 * laubersm too
Mar 25 21:12:26 <jjmcd> ciao
Mar 25 21:12:34 <stickster> I'll catch up on the log and see what I can do with publican-fedora over the rest of the week
Mar 25 21:12:55 <Sparks> Okay, I think we should let stickster do some investigating and maybe he can tell us something next week.
Mar 25 21:12:57 <Tsagadai> option 6 is far easier
Mar 25 21:13:41 <Sparks> Anything else before we go back to the Beta Announcement?
Mar 25 21:13:57 <jjmcd> PDF
Mar 25 21:14:02 <Sparks> yes?
Mar 25 21:14:06 <jjmcd> Is that something we want,and where
Mar 25 21:14:07 * stickster is now known as stickster_afk
Mar 25 21:14:22 <ke4qqq> yes
Mar 25 21:14:24 <Sparks> Good question. What are we going to do with a PDF?
Mar 25 21:14:29 <quaid> jjmcd: we want them for all docs, on docs.fp.o
Mar 25 21:14:48 <jjmcd> Personally, I like PDFs, but since we don't have them I don't see their place
Mar 25 21:14:53 <quaid> alongside tarball, html one page, etc.
Mar 25 21:14:56 <Sparks> quaid: In lieu of html?
Mar 25 21:14:59 <quaid> jjmcd: long requested feature
Mar 25 21:14:59 <jjmcd> OK, that would be good
Mar 25 21:15:00 <quaid> no
Mar 25 21:15:04 <quaid> alongside html
Mar 25 21:15:20 <quaid> ppl want to print the Installation Guide, etc.
Mar 25 21:15:24 <Sparks> +1
Mar 25 21:15:25 <jjmcd> yepper
Mar 25 21:16:09 <Sparks> Okay, anything else?
Mar 25 21:16:12 * laubersm is now known as laubersm_afk
Mar 25 21:16:14 <ke4qqq> quaid: they might not this release :)
Mar 25 21:16:43 <jjmcd> because the IG is unhelpful?
Mar 25 21:16:54 <ke4qqq> because it's up to 172 pages
Mar 25 21:17:17 <jjmcd> That hard to install, huh
Mar 25 21:17:39 <Sparks> Okay... back to the announcement
Mar 25 21:17:49 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Beta Announcement Part 2
Mar 25 21:17:58 <Sparks> Any other changes?
Mar 25 21:18:53 * openpercept (n=openperc@unaffiliated/openpercept) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 25 21:19:39 <Sparks> I see jjmcd making a few changes
Mar 25 21:19:52 * dychen_ has quit ("Ex-Chat")
Mar 25 21:20:11 * dychen_ (n=dingyich(a)d122-105-171-109.rdl15.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 25 21:20:44 <jjmcd> I still keep wondering about gcc. I feel like we should be warning ppl, but it doesn't seem right in an announcement
Mar 25 21:21:02 * nman64 (n=n-man@fedora/nman64) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 25 21:21:33 <jjmcd> Do we need to talk about replacing HAL?
Mar 25 21:21:42 <jjmcd> Maybe for the geeks
Mar 25 21:21:50 <Sparks> the gcc thing still sounds weird
Mar 25 21:21:53 <ke4qqq> not replacing - but perhaps what replaced it
Mar 25 21:23:00 <Sparks> volume control model ???
Mar 25 21:23:10 <ke4qqq> indeed!!!
Mar 25 21:23:14 <Sparks> Should that just be volume control?
Mar 25 21:23:31 <jjmcd> yeah
Mar 25 21:23:31 * ke4qqq thought we were talking about going up to 11
Mar 25 21:23:49 * jjmcd is still stressing over gcc ... ...
Mar 25 21:24:09 * n9986 (n=nandeep@unaffiliated/n9986) has joined #fedora-meeting
Mar 25 21:25:12 <Sparks> jjmcd: Is there anything in the RN about power management or "greeness"?
Mar 25 21:25:18 <jjmcd> ke4qqq - any better?
Mar 25 21:25:36 <jjmcd> I don't recall seeing anything
Mar 25 21:25:40 * openpercept has quit ("Leaving.")
Mar 25 21:25:47 <ke4qqq> worksforme
Mar 25 21:25:55 <ke4qqq> q
Mar 25 21:25:59 <Sparks> I thought there was some changes coming for powertop
Mar 25 21:27:06 <jjmcd> Nothing in the talking points
Mar 25 21:27:22 <Sparks> Make ext4 the default files system for anaconda-driven installs (replacing ext3). User should notice generally better performance, and benefit from things such as persistent preallocation when using updated torrent clients, and so forth.
Mar 25 21:27:26 <Sparks> and so forth?
Mar 25 21:28:15 <ke4qqq> torrent clients seems too much detail
Mar 25 21:28:26 <ke4qqq> how about better performance?
Mar 25 21:28:29 <ke4qqq> and end it there?
Mar 25 21:28:58 <jjmcd> There is a kind of motherhood and apple pie statement in the feature list about power
Mar 25 21:29:05 <ke4qqq> and so forth?
Mar 25 21:29:47 <ke4qqq> do my changes to ext4 rile anyones feathers?
Mar 25 21:29:54 <Sparks> I don't like the "and so forth"
Mar 25 21:30:13 <ke4qqq> well that disappeared with some other stuff
Mar 25 21:30:17 <Sparks> jjmcd: What is it?
Mar 25 21:30:32 <Sparks> ke4qqq: Remove generally?
Mar 25 21:30:44 <ke4qqq> ok
Mar 25 21:30:47 <jjmcd> Looking at the feature page for power management and it looks pretty good
Mar 25 21:31:02 <jjmcd> not so sure it will be easy to say in 25 wors or less
Mar 25 21:31:22 <Sparks> ke4qqq: how's that?
Mar 25 21:31:24 <Sparks> jjmcd: link?
Mar 25 21:31:35 <ke4qqq> why add read/write - one of the cool improvements is fsck time
Mar 25 21:31:44 <jjmcd> Features/Power_Management - sorry on another box
Mar 25 21:31:48 <ke4qqq> how about filesystem
Mar 25 21:31:50 <ke4qqq> ?
Mar 25 21:32:29 <ke4qqq> will is much stronger +1
Mar 25 21:33:00 <Sparks> :)
Mar 25 21:33:07 <ke4qqq> am I crazy or does a not belong there?
Mar 25 21:33:08 <Sparks> YOU WILL!
Mar 25 21:33:17 <Sparks> where?
Mar 25 21:33:22 <ke4qqq> shall we move to #fedora-docs?
Mar 25 21:33:42 <ke4qqq> nm it's addressed now
Mar 25 21:33:50 <ke4qqq> the a part not the moving
Mar 25 21:33:51 <Sparks> I don't like ext4, still
Mar 25 21:34:07 * n9986_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
Mar 25 21:35:34 <Sparks> Anyone have anything else for the meeting?
Mar 25 21:35:42 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Anything else?
Mar 25 21:36:24 <Sparks> Thanks everyone for coming!
Mar 25 21:36:40 <Sparks> </meeting>
Apr 01 20:00:15 <Sparks> <meeting id="Docs Project">
Apr 01 20:00:15 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Welcome to the
Docs Project Meeting - Agenda:
Apr 01 20:00:19 <Sparks> Roll call!
Apr 01 20:00:20 <quaid> let the boy change the topic at least :)
Apr 01 20:00:26 * radsy is here
Apr 01 20:00:26 * quaid esta aqui
Apr 01 20:00:34 * jjmcd here
Apr 01 20:00:42 * Sparks is here
Apr 01 20:00:51 * glezos είναι εδώ
Apr 01 20:01:15 <glezos> if that seemed all greek to you.. I'm
Apr 01 20:01:31 <quaid> wordplay!
Apr 01 20:01:47 <jjmcd> glezos: sometime in a bar remind me to tell you
my story about greek
Apr 01 20:01:50 * Sparks er her
Apr 01 20:02:20 <jjmcd> --
Apr 01 20:02:23 <Sparks> glezos: Everything looks greek to me at
Apr 01 20:02:27 * Renault has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox
Apr 01 20:02:34 * joat says "me too!"
Apr 01 20:02:48 * ryanlerch
(n=rlerch@nat/redhat/x-0dd0cf536998819b) has joined #fedora-meeting
Apr 01 20:02:58 <Sparks> Okay... I see one of my stars on board
so let's go harass him.
Apr 01 20:03:04 <Sparks> Oh, I spoke too soon! Both of them!
Apr 01 20:03:06 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project -
Status on Release Notes <-- ryanlerch & jjmcd
Apr 01 20:03:10 jcm jcollie jds2001 Jeff_S jeremy jjmcd jlaska jnettlet
joat juhp jwb
Apr 01 20:03:19 <Sparks> jjmcd: Okay, let me have it!
Apr 01 20:03:20 <jjmcd> OK, I basically got 4 kinds of beats
Apr 01 20:03:23 * rudi (n=rlandman@nat/redhat/x-6dae8d4e0825a1f2)
has joined #fedora-meeting
Apr 01 20:03:28 <jjmcd> ok'
Apr 01 20:04:07 * RodrigoPadula has quit ("Saindo")
Apr 01 20:04:30 <jjmcd> Oh
Apr 01 20:04:38 <jjmcd> When you said.... never mind
Apr 01 20:04:51 <jjmcd> 1) No content in wiki, not sure whether any
changes, might drop:
Apr 01 20:04:51 <jjmcd> Arch specific, printing, daemons, server config
Apr 01 20:04:52 <Sparks> jjmcd: You here tonight? I might not be
Apr 01 20:05:01 <jjmcd> 2) Limited content in wiki, might go with
Apr 01 20:05:01 <jjmcd> Entertainment, Live, Security
Apr 01 20:05:08 <jjmcd> 3) NEED CONTENT:
Apr 01 20:05:08 <jjmcd> Networking, boot, web, mail, database, file
Apr 01 20:05:15 <jjmcd> 4) Significant chunks of wiki to convert:
Apr 01 20:05:16 <jjmcd> Virtualization, Xorg, Cluster, Kernel
Apr 01 20:05:16 <jjmcd> (Virtualization is an update hence tedious, Xorg
could use more content)
Apr 01 20:05:26 <jjmcd> Just talked to Ryan, he can deal with xorg
Apr 01 20:05:44 <jjmcd> The more help we can get the less we will have
to drop, but basically
Apr 01 20:05:56 <jjmcd> we need to be done midday tommorow eastern so we
can make the pot
Apr 01 20:06:15 <Sparks> jjmcd: Have you worked the kinks out of
Apr 01 20:06:25 <jjmcd> We know how to make the pot
Apr 01 20:06:31 <Sparks> cool
Apr 01 20:06:33 <jjmcd> We think we can then use the result
Apr 01 20:06:41 <jjmcd> That second part hasn't been proven, but
Apr 01 20:06:51 <jjmcd> stickster and glezos seem to thinnk it isn't a
Apr 01 20:06:59 <Sparks> And you are going with that?
Apr 01 20:07:03 <Sparks> :)
Apr 01 20:07:03 <jjmcd> yes
Apr 01 20:07:06 <Sparks> So what do you need from me/Docs?
Apr 01 20:07:06 <quaid> right, it's no worse than what we've done in the
Apr 01 20:07:26 <rudi> There are a few strings in the po files for the
F10 notes that can be reused: the Welcome section and maybe some section
Apr 01 20:07:26 <jjmcd> We could use some hands to research servers,
Apr 01 20:07:36 <jjmcd> and do some of the remaining conversions
Apr 01 20:07:45 <jjmcd> without the py tools it is basically cut and
Apr 01 20:08:01 <quaid> jjmcd: you mean the xml conversion tools?
Apr 01 20:08:06 <jjmcd> yeah
Apr 01 20:08:18 <Sparks> Okay, I think there have been some
advances to the NetworkManager... not sure about the rest
Apr 01 20:08:19 <jjmcd> the ones that need some library or another and
don't work anymore
Apr 01 20:08:27 * stickster_afk is now known as stickster
Apr 01 20:08:28 <jjmcd> I'm not so sure cut/paste isn't easier anyway
Apr 01 20:08:35 <quaid> jjmcd: aren't there packages we can use now,
although not yet in the repo?
Apr 01 20:08:48 <jjmcd> Seems like there was something broken
Apr 01 20:08:53 * quaid is sorry, shall we hold tool discussions
for a bit?
Apr 01 20:09:04 <Sparks> quaid: Yeah, that's coming up
Apr 01 20:09:10 <jjmcd> Yeah, there's only a few larger pieces anyway
Apr 01 20:09:18 <Sparks> quaid: Of course we can merge the
Apr 01 20:09:23 <jjmcd> cut/paste probably would take a total of a
couple of hours
Apr 01 20:09:27 * quaid should wait :)
Apr 01 20:09:34 <jjmcd> but if someone does that I can research the
Apr 01 20:09:58 <Sparks> Okay... who can step up for some last
minute research and converting?
Apr 01 20:10:16 <Sparks> The first ten people get a piece of
cherry pie (I baked yesterday).
Apr 01 20:10:30 <stickster> quaid: Are you guys talking about the
problems with mw-render?
Apr 01 20:10:42 <Sparks> jjmcd: I can try to get some additional
information on NetworkManager.
Apr 01 20:10:45 <stickster> quaid: Are you guys talking about the
problems with mw-render?
Apr 01 20:10:55 <stickster> jjmcd: ^^
Apr 01 20:11:00 <jjmcd> That would be a help
Apr 01 20:11:01 <quaid> stickster: yes
Apr 01 20:11:01 <jjmcd> yes
Apr 01 20:11:10 <stickster> I think you can download the odfpy07
review SRPM package that's in Bugzilla and rebuild it locally
Apr 01 20:11:15 <jjmcd> but over the past few weeks we've gotten most
dome by hand
Apr 01 20:11:20 <quaid> that's what I'm talking 'bout!
Apr 01 20:11:27 <jjmcd> so rather than spend time trying to make the
Apr 01 20:11:44 <joat> when's it needed by?
Apr 01 20:11:50 <jjmcd> Tomorrow
Apr 01 20:11:53 <Sparks> at noon
Apr 01 20:11:55 <jjmcd> and most of the conversion is done
Apr 01 20:11:58 <stickster> jjmcd: Yeah, you don't want to spin
useful cycles making a tool work when you could just do some elbow
Apr 01 20:11:59 <jjmcd> thanks to Ryan
Apr 01 20:12:00 <Sparks> jjmcd: is that noon EDT?
Apr 01 20:12:08 <joat> ouch...
Apr 01 20:12:22 <jjmcd> I figure noon EDT or so will give us plenty of
time for pits, git branches etc
Apr 01 20:12:27 <jjmcd> pots I mean
Apr 01 20:12:38 <Sparks> pots or pits
Apr 01 20:12:48 <jjmcd> We still need a strategy for l10n
Apr 01 20:12:55 <quaid> I clarified on the timing to f-devel-l et al,
Apr 01 20:13:09 <jjmcd> to see a clean one pot system while not loosing
our 30~ pots
Apr 01 20:13:24 <jjmcd> but I don't see that as a big problem
Apr 01 20:14:03 <stickster> jjmcd: The "strategy" is, I think, to
create a new git branch, put the one POT in that branch and remove the
other POTs, have Transifex use that branch, and let the L10n'ers know.
Apr 01 20:14:13 <jjmcd> Yep I think that's it
Apr 01 20:14:26 <quaid> that's more like a tactic, in my book :)
Apr 01 20:14:30 <stickster> The 'master' branch will retain
everything in a normal Publican fashion
Apr 01 20:14:54 <jjmcd> that was my thought, assuming tx can use an
Apr 01 20:14:54 <stickster> quaid: Yeah, you caught me, but I think
that's what was asked for
Apr 01 20:14:58 <quaid> we need to interact with an admin of
Apr 01 20:15:09 <quaid> although theoretically we could grow knowledge
of how to add modules within our group, if we want
Apr 01 20:15:13 <stickster> I'm sure either Rasther or glezos would
be able to help there.
Apr 01 20:15:30 <rudi> So are we planning to have L10N create one big
po per language?
Apr 01 20:15:37 <jjmcd> yep
Apr 01 20:15:53 <jjmcd> Then we will merge those strings into the
Apr 01 20:15:54 <quaid> and then slice it up to reinsert in to Publican?
Apr 01 20:16:00 <jjmcd> exactly
Apr 01 20:16:07 <quaid> ah, ok, that's a nicer way to say it, merge.
Apr 01 20:16:28 <jjmcd> Apparently there is some tool
Apr 01 20:16:28 <Sparks> slice and dice
Apr 01 20:16:30 <rudi> That will be an non-trivial task for the Install
guide with ~700 po files
Apr 01 20:16:55 <quaid> only if it requires manual intervention?
Apr 01 20:16:57 <jjmcd> bash is my friend
Apr 01 20:17:04 * laubersm
(n=laubersm(a)72-255-35-203.client.stsn.net) has joined #fedora-meeting
Apr 01 20:17:24 <stickster> jjmcd: yes, msgmerge
Apr 01 20:17:25 <jjmcd> I'm happy to see so many people raise their
hands to help
Apr 01 20:17:44 * quaid loves to play in bash
Apr 01 20:18:11 * jjmcd often reverts to C - the angels' language
Apr 01 20:18:11 <stickster> jjmcd: I can do the Virt beat
Apr 01 20:18:25 <quaid> where is the list?
Apr 01 20:18:31 <stickster> quaid: See above ^^^^
Apr 01 20:18:35 <jjmcd> We got good content, but the conversion will be
a bit of a pain
Apr 01 20:18:36 * laubersm pops in to try to catch up
Apr 01 20:18:47 <stickster> 'round 00:04
Apr 01 20:19:08 <jjmcd> http://fpaste.org/paste/7653
Apr 01 20:20:17 <jjmcd> laubersm: Need to get done tomorrow midday ehat
we're talking about
Apr 01 20:20:20 <Sparks> jjmcd: Is there anything we can
steal/borrow from KDE and GNOME for arch specific?
Apr 01 20:20:33 <stickster> Sparks: Wouldn't make sense, they're
higher up the stack.
Apr 01 20:20:45 <stickster> Typically those involve things like
minimum hardware requirements and install gotchas
Apr 01 20:20:54 <Sparks> stickster: Ahhh.. Okay
Apr 01 20:20:55 <jjmcd> I didn't see anything arch specific there - I'm
not so sure there really is anything
Apr 01 20:21:11 <jjmcd> OK, so maybe we need to review the F10 notes
Apr 01 20:22:07 <Sparks> Okay... let's come back to this at the
end to get the volunteers.
Apr 01 20:22:28 <Sparks> any other questions about the Release
Apr 01 20:22:58 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project -
Beat writers flagging content for alpha/beta one-sheet
Apr 01 20:23:10 <quaid> ok, this was mine
Apr 01 20:23:12 <Sparks> Okay... not sure what this is but I'm
pretty sure I didn't put it up
Apr 01 20:23:14 <Sparks> Oh good...
Apr 01 20:23:16 <Sparks> Go quaid
Apr 01 20:23:55 <quaid> a question came up on f-i18n-l because they have
some cool new tech (ibus) that didn't get in either the announcement and
or the one page Beta notes
Apr 01 20:24:01 <quaid> I'm sure it's on their beat
Apr 01 20:24:06 * inode0 has quit ("Leaving.")
Apr 01 20:24:08 <quaid> and that is where it *should* be, right?
Apr 01 20:24:12 <quaid> they right one source, etc.
Apr 01 20:24:26 <quaid> but how do the rest of us know what needs early
Alpha or Beta mention, talking points, etc.
Apr 01 20:24:31 <quaid> other than combing features, etc.
Apr 01 20:24:35 <quaid> so I wondered what to do?
Apr 01 20:24:53 <quaid> at the least, give beat writers a way to flag
their content as worth a mention in either the Alpha or Beta or Preview
Apr 01 20:25:30 * jjmcd would rather leave that to the marketing
Apr 01 20:25:53 * k0k (n=k0k@fedora/k0k) has joined
Apr 01 20:25:57 * Sparks has an idea
Apr 01 20:26:27 <quaid> jjmcd: well, the announcement and talking points
... but what about release notes worthy content? and can this all be
covered with one set of instructions for beat writers?
Apr 01 20:26:38 * izaac has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection
reset by peer))
Apr 01 20:26:39 * quaid has no plan fwiw
Apr 01 20:26:45 <Sparks> Okay... Just an idea...
Apr 01 20:26:48 <quaid> just that we have a system we can build on, etc.
Apr 01 20:26:51 * quaid listens
Apr 01 20:27:10 <Sparks> If each beat is its own page...
Apr 01 20:27:17 <Sparks> they can be marked with a category...
Apr 01 20:27:28 <Sparks> and then we can use those categories to
create the docs...
Apr 01 20:27:48 <Sparks> so when they are ready for their item to
be included they just add the appropriate cat.
Apr 01 20:27:52 <Sparks> <eof>
Apr 01 20:28:03 <quaid> aren't they in a category or two already?
Apr 01 20:28:21 <Sparks> Maybe...
Apr 01 20:28:28 <quaid> ok, we could have a [[Category:Release notes
beat Beta content]] for example
Apr 01 20:28:33 <Sparks> yes
Apr 01 20:28:39 * quaid sees that some are not in a category,
Apr 01 20:28:43 <Sparks> So we would see when something got added
to that cat.
Apr 01 20:28:55 <quaid> right, that sources it
Apr 01 20:29:03 <jjmcd> The category makes a page, tho. DevTools has
over 100 changes
Apr 01 20:29:06 <Sparks> This is being done for something but I
don't remember what it is
Apr 01 20:29:15 <quaid> if they want to consider something as a talking
point for release announcements and PR, they could add that cat, too, i
Apr 01 20:29:38 <Sparks> And they shouldn't add the cat until
they are DONE... finished... no more editing.
Apr 01 20:29:41 <quaid> jjmcd: so we'd need some way within the page to
mark specific content ...
Apr 01 20:29:48 <jjmcd> Yeah
Apr 01 20:29:51 <quaid> Sparks: well, not for Beta, for example
Apr 01 20:30:01 <Sparks> Well............
Apr 01 20:30:02 <Sparks> yeah
Apr 01 20:30:13 <quaid> and we need to churn discussion before beats are
done; Paul and marketing
Apr 01 20:30:30 <quaid> have been talking up stuff that are mainly
Apr 01 20:30:32 <quaid> in feature pages.
Apr 01 20:31:04 <jjmcd> That discussion mostly on dev-list?
Apr 01 20:31:15 <quaid> no, I mean Marketing
Apr 01 20:31:28 <quaid> to the press, blogs, talking points, etc.
Apr 01 20:31:54 * stickster points out that Marketing concentrates
on just a few features that have a really compelling story that can be
built around them
Apr 01 20:31:57 <jjmcd> mmmm .... good point, there are a lot of cool
stuff that ain't on the feature pages
Apr 01 20:32:34 <quaid> stickster: I'm thinking we might as well have a
way for beat writers to hook in to that machine with suggestions without
having to create a feature page; a feature doesn't always apply, does
Apr 01 20:32:57 <stickster> What do you mean, have beat writers
suggest stories to Marketing?
Apr 01 20:33:23 <quaid> a beat writer may know about a technical change
that is worthy of being a talking point, but that isn't a Feature
Apr 01 20:33:32 * k0k has quit ("Saliendo")
Apr 01 20:33:39 <quaid> and since Docs
Apr 01 20:33:43 <quaid> does the release announcements
Apr 01 20:33:53 <quaid> and does it on more than just the talking points
for the Alpha ... PR
Apr 01 20:34:06 <quaid> it helps if we know some of that too, right?
Apr 01 20:34:20 <jjmcd> There are many groups of features that would be
exciting to some niche audiences. I don't know whether the marketing
guys have the cycles for that, but it could be fertile ground
Apr 01 20:34:35 <quaid> well, we can collect it without using it.
Apr 01 20:34:35 <stickster> jjmcd: The point of the Marketing
talking points is to reach the widest possible audience
Apr 01 20:34:54 <jjmcd> Yes, so it is different from the talking points
Apr 01 20:34:55 <stickster> quaid: I guess I'm not seeing where a
technical change that's not a feature is going to be important enough to
Apr 01 20:35:08 <stickster> Maybe an example would help
Apr 01 20:35:08 <quaid> however, we have niche audiences that could get
niche release focuse; e.g. software developers
Apr 01 20:35:15 <jjmcd> exctly
Apr 01 20:35:32 <jjmcd> Chitlesh has a nice story for electronic
Apr 01 20:35:50 <jjmcd> there are a lot of goodies for hams
Apr 01 20:35:53 <stickster> quaid: And that's the purpose of the
reorganized release notes, right?
Apr 01 20:35:55 <quaid> heh, I dunno, if it's not a feature, how do I
know about it?
Apr 01 20:36:10 <stickster> i.e. "New for Software Developers," "New
for SysAdmins," etc.
Apr 01 20:36:23 <quaid> stickster: right, and having a beat writer call
out the top 10 items from 100 devel tool changes would be helpful
Apr 01 20:36:25 <jjmcd> But do you go tell that to Dr. Dobbs Journal?
Apr 01 20:37:08 <stickster> I think it's important for us not to
overload the talking point process right now, which is young and still
unsteady on its feet
Apr 01 20:37:10 <quaid> stickster: well, ok, I guess it undermines the
feature process of "own it enough to make a feature page and you get
Apr 01 20:37:20 <stickster> quaid: Good point.
Apr 01 20:37:25 <quaid> but we can collect that info via categories
Apr 01 20:37:38 <quaid> to gather foci for Alpha, Beta, and PR
Apr 01 20:37:55 <quaid> I think the final announcement needs to continue
the tight-and-not-overloaded following of the talking points we have
Apr 01 20:38:09 <jjmcd> Yes I agree
Apr 01 20:38:22 <quaid> ok, I'll make a note in my ever morphing task
Apr 01 20:38:33 <quaid> to create a set of categories for the beats to
use as a workflow/transition state flags
Apr 01 20:38:35 * jsmith
(n=jsmith@asterisk/training-and-documentation-guru/jsmith) has joined
Apr 01 20:38:38 <jjmcd> But it seems to me it would be cool id Paul
colud have a story for some niche publications that might not be
interested in just another Linux release
Apr 01 20:38:44 * zwu|gone is now known as zwu
Apr 01 20:38:48 <quaid> and we can publicize those for the Preview
Apr 01 20:39:09 <quaid> jjmcd: well, maybe the process of convering as
we go on the relnotes helps him find that stuff earlier
Apr 01 20:39:45 <jjmcd> Perhaps we should have some "cool for this
audience" wiki pages
Apr 01 20:40:00 * Sparks notes that it is 40 minutes after the
hour and spot needs to go eat...
Apr 01 20:40:56 <Sparks> quaid: So you have a plan?
Apr 01 20:40:56 * quaid is done with his task taken
Apr 01 20:41:01 <Sparks> :)
Apr 01 20:41:02 <quaid> I think we got it, yeah
Apr 01 20:41:04 <Sparks> anything else?
Apr 01 20:41:05 <quaid> thx
Apr 01 20:41:09 <quaid> eoitem
Apr 01 20:41:16 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project -
An update to "Publican fix for Fedora?"
Apr 01 20:41:25 <quaid> thx for hanging spot :D
Apr 01 20:41:28 <spot> so... let me make a few points quickly here
Apr 01 20:41:42 <spot> I have given this a LOT of thought over the last
day or so
Apr 01 20:41:58 <spot> especially after learning about the limitations
of our build/errata tools and RPM
Apr 01 20:42:24 <spot> my biggest concern about lang separated SRPMs is
this: In RHEL, there are 2,104 doc packages
Apr 01 20:42:37 <spot> thats 2104 reviews.
Apr 01 20:42:41 <Sparks> wow
Apr 01 20:42:46 <stickster> That's scary.
Apr 01 20:42:52 <jsmith> A plethora!
Apr 01 20:43:00 <spot> i honestly don't think it scales without a
Apr 01 20:43:19 <spot> now, if you guys say "we'll tag team and knock
them all out on our own", then i will back away slowly
Apr 01 20:43:47 <spot> as is, we approved the other two items that were
on FPC's agenda on tuesday
Apr 01 20:43:56 <spot> * permitting desktop files inline
Apr 01 20:44:15 <spot> * allowing distro versioning in name when Docs
Project determines it is necessary
Apr 01 20:44:33 <spot> so, once FESCo ratifies those items
Apr 01 20:44:43 <spot> (which they should do on Friday, hopefully)
Apr 01 20:44:54 <quaid> should we have $who there?
Apr 01 20:45:12 <spot> there would be nothing preventing you guys from
filing package review requests for several thousand doc packages
Apr 01 20:45:29 <spot> the guidelines don't say you can't carpetbomb
the review requests
Apr 01 20:46:01 * stickster shudders to see other packager
reaction at both that, and then the film-in-reverse anti-carpetbombing
of review approvals
Apr 01 20:46:24 <spot> i really wish there was a way to make the lang
packages as subpackages, but in talking to folks like paul and mike
hideo about this issue, i don't think that it is possible
Apr 01 20:46:29 * Sparks thinks we'll have to get a B-29 for the
Apr 01 20:46:49 <spot> the only thing i would suggest is this
Apr 01 20:47:05 <spot> Write a simplified template for doing publican
based doc reviews
Apr 01 20:47:18 <spot> also, write a review checklist
Apr 01 20:47:23 <spot> and publicize the hell out of it
Apr 01 20:47:38 <spot> so that you have an example "good spec" and a
Apr 01 20:47:49 <spot> i'd be happy to sanity check both
Apr 01 20:48:05 <spot> then, i wish you luck and i hide in my bunker
Apr 01 20:48:13 <jjmcd> ;)
Apr 01 20:48:15 <quaid> isn't Publican supposed to kick out an SRPM that
can be directly and minimally reviewed?
Apr 01 20:48:20 <Sparks> We'll definitely be checking in with you
so we are all in sync.
Apr 01 20:48:29 <Sparks> quaid: Supposed to
Apr 01 20:48:30 <quaid> that is, once the base of what it does is
approved or fixed or whathaveyou ...
Apr 01 20:48:50 <Sparks> quaid: Once Publican behaves itself then
it should be too difficult to review.
Apr 01 20:48:51 <spot> quaid: yes, but you have to realize that the
average person is going to see
Apr 01 20:48:58 <spot> and they aren't going to want to review it.
Apr 01 20:49:07 <quaid> are we considering the multiple language SRPMS
Apr 01 20:49:16 <quaid> a) Publican only supports that and we have no
Apr 01 20:49:28 <quaid> b) We think it's the right way to go (f-r-n is
20 MB and growing ...)
Apr 01 20:49:40 <spot> quaid: our infrastructure can't handle updating
just a single lang subpackage
Apr 01 20:49:42 <quaid> c) Publican could be made to support something
else and we'd prefer that, but can't make that happen
Apr 01 20:49:59 <Sparks> d) all of the above
Apr 01 20:50:05 <spot> so, if that is important to you, your only real
option is to separate out by lang
Apr 01 20:50:12 <quaid> ah
Apr 01 20:50:19 <spot> i tried literally for several hours to find
Apr 01 20:50:21 <quaid> so if i want to update the French release notes
Apr 01 20:50:23 <spot> there just isn't one
Apr 01 20:50:26 <stickster> quaid: Yeah, ianweller unfortunately was
mistaken about that one
Apr 01 20:50:27 <quaid> right now I need to push a whole package
Apr 01 20:50:36 <quaid> and with subpackages, i would have to update
the base and all the subs?
Apr 01 20:50:51 <quaid> but with true stand-alone perlang packages, i
can update them individually.
Apr 01 20:50:57 <stickster> quaid: Right.
Apr 01 20:51:00 <quaid> ok
Apr 01 20:51:07 <stickster> At least, spot and f13 both say that's
how it works.
Apr 01 20:51:13 <stickster> (which to me means bankworthy)
Apr 01 20:51:14 <quaid> so
Apr 01 20:51:28 <quaid> if (b) is the way, we think it's right and
Publican is pushing us in the right direction ...
Apr 01 20:51:37 <quaid> then doesn't our decision fall from that
Apr 01 20:51:46 <spot> well, again, the question is:
Apr 01 20:51:59 <spot> how realistic is your need to push single lang
Apr 01 20:52:02 <rudi> Packaged up I don't know how big it would be,
but right now the IG with its 36 languages and dozens of screenshots in
each language is up to 600 MB here
Apr 01 20:52:07 <jjmcd> We have a ways to go before we get to
"thousands", but not as far as we would like
Apr 01 20:52:09 <spot> if it is a real need, then its a need.
Apr 01 20:52:21 <glezos> stickster, indeed, we'll be happy to
provide any help requested.
Apr 01 20:52:37 <quaid> rudi: hot diggity!
Apr 01 20:53:00 <stickster> It's a real need in my experience, IFF.
we want to respond to translation updates quickly and uniformly from web
Apr 01 20:53:20 <quaid> (user guide + install guide + release notes +
security guide + selinux guide) * 10 $lang_average == about what we can
Apr 01 20:53:35 <spot> stickster: okay then. your only option is lang
Apr 01 20:53:43 <quaid> so not 2000, more like 50+ and not all at once
Apr 01 20:54:02 <spot> your biggest hurdle will be getting them
Apr 01 20:54:05 <glezos> stickster, the Q is how quickly? We have
the same needs with normal packages, but we don't have langpacks.
Apr 01 20:54:25 <stickster> glezos: For much the same reasons
Apr 01 20:54:32 <stickster> Look, Docs is blazing a trail!
Apr 01 20:54:32 <quaid> we need a few sponsors in
Apr 01 20:54:33 <stickster> wooo
Apr 01 20:54:34 <quaid> Docs
Apr 01 20:54:53 * quaid looks at ke4qqq
Apr 01 20:55:02 <spot> you don't have to be a sponsor to do a review.
Apr 01 20:55:05 <spot> just sponsored.
Apr 01 20:55:12 <quaid> ok
Apr 01 20:55:23 <spot> and if you're low on that front, let me know
Apr 01 20:55:25 <quaid> I don't want the review process in our way.
Apr 01 20:55:31 <spot> i can almost certainly sponsor some folks
Apr 01 20:55:37 <stickster> I'm sponsored
Apr 01 20:55:41 * quaid will sign up
Apr 01 20:55:45 <stickster> I maintain some packages already
Apr 01 20:55:53 * Sparks would like to be
Apr 01 20:56:07 <stickster> What would be *most* helpful is for
someoneNotMe() to write the template review.
Apr 01 20:56:10 <quaid> Sparks: let's do it, like buddy parachuting!
Apr 01 20:56:16 * izaac (n=izaac@fedora/izaac) has joined
Apr 01 20:56:25 <Sparks> If we could manage it all in house, that
could alleviate some of the problems that we are facing, imo
Apr 01 20:56:26 <stickster> If the template's there, I can commit to
a mess o' reviews.
Apr 01 20:56:52 * Sparks votes to give all packages to stickster
Apr 01 20:57:00 <Sparks> quaid: Yeah!
Apr 01 20:57:07 * spot hates to run, but is there anything else
you need from me? :)
Apr 01 20:57:22 <Sparks> spot: What does it take to knight us?
Apr 01 20:57:53 <spot> Sparks: if by that you mean "sponsor", i just
need to see that you possess basic RPM competancy and an understanding
of the Fedora Packaging Guidelines
Apr 01 20:58:01 <spot> usually, i do that with a new package review
Apr 01 20:58:20 * Sparks has had his package in review since
Apr 01 20:58:30 <spot> Sparks: email me the bz
Apr 01 20:58:34 <spot> i will look at it tomorrow
Apr 01 20:58:49 <Sparks> spot: I will but you'll hate it.
Apr 01 20:58:50 <Sparks> :)
Apr 01 20:58:57 <Sparks> Okay, anything else for spot?
Apr 01 20:58:58 <spot> is it mono? java?
Apr 01 20:59:03 <jjmcd> Don't takt Sparks away from the Networking RNs
Apr 01 20:59:06 <spot> fortran77?
Apr 01 20:59:09 <Sparks> spot: Security-Guide
Apr 01 20:59:17 <quaid> Sparks: I think you have what you need if FESCo
ratifies to get it approved, right?
Apr 01 20:59:26 <Sparks> quaid: Kinda...
Apr 01 20:59:37 <quaid> he's already on the Cc: on that bug iirc
Apr 01 20:59:41 <Sparks> Ok
Apr 01 20:59:51 <Sparks> Thanks spot! Go have some supper.
Apr 01 20:59:57 <spot> thanks guys, good luck.
Apr 01 20:59:59 <quaid> so update the bug with the ratified guidelines
as a tickler :)
Apr 01 21:00:01 <quaid> thx Sparks
Apr 01 21:00:04 <quaid> spot I mean!
Apr 01 21:00:10 * spot puts on his crash helmet and dives into a
Apr 01 21:00:19 <Sparks> spot: Yeah, that's probably needed.
Apr 01 21:00:25 <Sparks> Okay, so anything else on the topic?
Apr 01 21:00:41 <quaid> Docs_team++
Apr 01 21:00:51 <Sparks> Okay... next up is...
Apr 01 21:00:54 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project -
Fedora Documentation Steering Committee (FDSC) Charter
Apr 01 21:01:02 <Sparks> Wow, is this thing old...
Apr 01 21:01:19 <jjmcd> stable - better word
Apr 01 21:01:20 * leitz
(n=leitz(a)adsl-21-134-243.clt.bellsouth.net) has joined #fedora-meeting
Apr 01 21:01:26 * lfoppiano has quit ("Ex-Chat")
Apr 01 21:01:53 <Sparks>
Apr 01 21:02:00 <Sparks> jjmcd: Ha!
Apr 01 21:02:07 <Sparks> Oh, it's stable... and buggy
Apr 01 21:02:37 <Sparks> So I'm not going to get into it tonight
but take a peek at it, add your comments to the Talk page, and we'll
come back to it next week.
Apr 01 21:02:58 <Sparks> Questions? Comments? Crude remarks?
Apr 01 21:03:14 <quaid> mmm, tasty cruft
Apr 01 21:03:36 <Sparks> Okay... next up is...
Apr 01 21:03:38 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project -
CMS Update <-- ke4qqq
Apr 01 21:03:47 <Sparks> ke4qqq: What do you have for us tonight?
Apr 01 21:04:31 <Sparks> ke4qqq: ???
Apr 01 21:05:01 <Sparks> Okay, he might not be here tonight. I
know the core has been packaged and he was working on getting modules
Apr 01 21:05:16 <Sparks> If anyone has some spare time I'm sure
he could use you to work on packaging.
Apr 01 21:05:32 <Sparks> Questions? Comments?
Apr 01 21:05:46 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project -
DocsProject wiki pages changes
Apr 01 21:06:09 <Sparks> Okay, so I archived some pages today
that were dealing with FDSCo stuff from years past.
Apr 01 21:06:33 <jjmcd> You're erasing our history???
Apr 01 21:06:37 <Sparks> laubersm: What tasks are pending for the
Apr 01 21:06:39 * danielsmw gasps
Apr 01 21:06:46 <Sparks> jjmcd: Archiving is NOT the same as
Apr 01 21:06:50 <Sparks> gees
Apr 01 21:07:04 * Sparks wishes he could archive jjmcd... :)
Apr 01 21:07:10 * danielsmw gasps again
Apr 01 21:07:21 <jjmcd> That guy is nothing but trouble
Apr 01 21:07:40 <Sparks> Have we stayed up past everyone's bed
Apr 01 21:07:48 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project -
Apr 01 21:07:51 <jjmcd> I saw laubersm come in
Apr 01 21:08:00 <Sparks> Okay... It's late... does anyone have
anything they want to talk about?
Apr 01 21:08:01 * glezos still sees his name on an FDSCo page and
wondering why the hell it's there since there are so many awesome guys
working on Docs today.
Apr 01 21:08:02 <danielsmw> Oh, I have something to say
Apr 01 21:08:15 <stickster> It's better to burn out than to fade
Apr 01 21:08:15 * laubersm is on pda = slow typing
Apr 01 21:08:21 <danielsmw> A while ago I made a compat package to
make mw-render work again
Apr 01 21:08:26 <Sparks> laubersm: yikes
Apr 01 21:08:34 <danielsmw> but i'm not getting sponsored because i
basically do no other packaging
Apr 01 21:08:36 <quaid> glezos: cruft abounds in the house of the
Apr 01 21:08:40 <danielsmw> anyone else want to take it and submit?
Apr 01 21:08:57 <glezos> quaid, what can we do to change it?
Apr 01 21:09:05 * inode0 (n=inode0@fedora/inode0) has joined
Apr 01 21:09:08 <quaid> glezos: volunteer to help clean up wiki pages :)
Apr 01 21:09:14 <Sparks> danielsmw: That sucks... Okay, so do
you have a bz ticket #?
Apr 01 21:09:23 <glezos> oh -- it's just wiki pages then.
Apr 01 21:09:24 <quaid> danielsmw: I think you should get to be the
Apr 01 21:09:25 <danielsmw> Sparks: yeah, hold on
Apr 01 21:09:32 <danielsmw> quaid: a good idea as well
Apr 01 21:09:39 <quaid> glezos: well, maybe f-docs-l admin or something,
stuff that's decentralized
Apr 01 21:09:51 <danielsmw> Sparks: 491946
Apr 01 21:10:06 <Sparks> .bug 491946
Apr 01 21:10:08 <buggbot> Bug
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=491946 medium, low,
---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: odfpy07 - compat package for odfpy
Apr 01 21:10:10 <zodbot> Sparks: Bug 491946 Review Request:
odfpy07 - compat package for odfpy -
Apr 01 21:10:11 <buggbot> Bug 491946: medium, low, ---, nobody,
NEW, Review Request: odfpy07 - compat package for odfpy
Apr 01 21:11:04 <Sparks> stickster: you said you could review
Apr 01 21:11:14 <Sparks> :)
Apr 01 21:11:43 <quaid> how about abadger1999 or spot
Apr 01 21:11:49 <Sparks> Yeah, spot!
Apr 01 21:12:19 <Sparks> danielsmw: It took my package a while to
get noticed. I think mhideo went and poked one of his Brisbane guys to
Apr 01 21:12:20 <abadger1999> k. I'll take it.
Apr 01 21:12:33 <Sparks> Now that's service right there.
Apr 01 21:12:42 <quaid> yeah, we can do better reviewing within this
Apr 01 21:12:43 <abadger1999> Are we sure that the package can't be
ported to the current version of odfpy?
Apr 01 21:12:43 <danielsmw> lol
Apr 01 21:12:51 <quaid> and call in favors once it's ready to get
Apr 01 21:13:15 <Sparks> quaid: +1
Apr 01 21:14:01 <Sparks> laubersm: Did you have anything for us
Apr 01 21:14:10 <laubersm> no
Apr 01 21:14:28 <jjmcd> laubersm: Want to help with research/conversion?
Apr 01 21:14:30 <Sparks> laubersm: Okay, wanted to give you a
chance to get in there with all the background noise going on.
Apr 01 21:15:11 <quaid> jjmcd: I'm going to try really, really hard to
appear at the right time and do whatever needs doing at that point.
Apr 01 21:15:30 <quaid> is there an active [[Release notes tasks]] list?
Apr 01 21:15:49 <jjmcd> I have an ODS, I should make it a wikipage I
Apr 01 21:16:04 <jjmcd> But I see things disappearing from the list as
Apr 01 21:16:04 <quaid> yes plz
Apr 01 21:16:13 <quaid> ah, your list
Apr 01 21:16:35 <quaid> we just need on of the usual status with tracker
and who has what "write, edit, convert to xml" columns
Apr 01 21:16:39 <jjmcd> yes, what I fpasted is basically the short
Apr 01 21:16:50 * laubersm is teaching this on the road... will
check list tomorrow
Apr 01 21:17:24 <jjmcd> I suspect by the end of the Brisbane workday the
list may look different
Apr 01 21:17:34 <laubersm> rn due thur? time in edt?
Apr 01 21:17:58 <jjmcd> Need pots by 2359 and we need some time to
prepare the pots
Apr 01 21:18:06 <jjmcd> 2359Z that is
Apr 01 21:18:17 * warren has quit ("Leaving")
Apr 01 21:18:18 <jjmcd> so 19L59 EDT
Apr 01 21:18:33 * laubersm has time fri but that doesnt help
Apr 01 21:19:04 <jjmcd> No, Friday we will be sorting the spec file and
how to tear the big POs apart
Apr 01 21:19:04 * zwu has quit (Remote closed the connection)
Apr 01 21:19:15 <quaid> I didn't see any more pushback or request for
Apr 01 21:19:31 <quaid> but we'll likely see new content for the final
Apr 01 21:19:42 <quaid> that might have been in this time, possibly
Apr 01 21:19:47 <jjmcd> quaid: We can make 2359, but the more hands the
better the quality
Apr 01 21:19:56 <quaid> righto
Apr 01 21:20:13 <rudi> Quick question - I feel like I'm missing the
point of something here; why are the individual po files still a problem
Apr 01 21:20:33 * Sonar_Guy has quit ("Leaving")
Apr 01 21:20:40 <jjmcd> Transifex only can deal with one
Apr 01 21:21:18 <jjmcd> Kinda like Publican, and easy fix but ......
Apr 01 21:21:59 <rudi> But I've seen translators committing
translations of the Publican Common Content sections; with more than one
po file in the directories in question
Apr 01 21:22:11 <quaid> via Tx?
Apr 01 21:22:16 <rudi> Yep
Apr 01 21:22:38 <quaid> well, even after Paul and Dimitris explained it
today, I still had gaps in my brain about it.
Apr 01 21:23:10 <rudi> Let me verify what I believe I've seen; but we
can talk about that after the meeting anyway
Apr 01 21:23:17 <quaid> I got that the web interface doesn't have a way
to display (for download, upload, statistics) the individual PO/POT
Apr 01 21:23:20 <quaid> k
Apr 01 21:23:47 <Sparks> Anything else?
Apr 01 21:24:18 <Sparks> 5
Apr 01 21:24:22 <Sparks> 4
Apr 01 21:24:24 <Sparks> 3
Apr 01 21:24:27 <Sparks> 2
Apr 01 21:24:30 <Sparks> 1
Apr 01 21:24:34 <Sparks> Thanks everyone for coming!
Apr 01 21:24:34 <Sparks> </meeting>
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Rino Mardo <rino.mardo(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> There is no separate Rescue CD .... changed
>> Will the password line be within one line in all cases?
>> Then the whole thing can be done in one command
>> All users may not have the Fedora install/live cd/dvd with them.
>> So it makes sense to have other methods.
>> USB rescue missing
> well in that case there's also others like Knoppix. yeah USB rescue
> for those who have netbooks.
Added enough lines for those cases.
Changed /etc/grub.conf to /boot/grub/grub.conf ....assuming Fedora-11
has not reverted the file to the ancient location.
Member, Cal. Math. Soc
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