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In September 2008, Karsten wisely wrote in his new wiki stub for the
Each desktop application has integrated Help, so the scope of this
document may need to be considered carefully.
I feel like I've somewhat let this admonition go unattended since I've
been in charge of the User Guide. Would striking a lot of specific,
step-by-step tasks from the UG offend any previous content writers? Is
this the direction to go?
I would bring this up at a FDSCo meeting, but I've been unable to make
them lately. I'd appreciate some guidance on the list.
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00:01:31 <Sparks> #startmeeting
00:01:31 <Sparks> #meetingtopic Docs Project meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Thursday_July_9.2C_2...
00:01:48 * Sparks is here
00:02:26 * jjmcd is here - barely
00:02:30 * rudi is here
00:02:38 * laubersm hides in the back
00:02:47 <ianweller> hiiii
00:02:48 * mhideo here
00:04:04 * Sparks gives everyone a few more minutes to trickle in
00:04:24 <Sparks> jjmcd: busy or tired?
00:04:39 <jjmcd> Just got back 2 minutes ago -- need coffee badly
00:06:49 <Sparks> Okay, let's get started...
00:06:52 <Sparks> #topic Using a forked version of Publican
00:06:52 <Sparks> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=476471
00:06:54 <buggbot> Bug 476471: medium, low, ---, petersen, ASSIGNED, Review Request: fedora-security-guide - A security guide for Linux
00:07:04 <Sparks> The link above is to the Security Guide which is where this question originates. The Security Guide wasn't supposed to have a component (fc11) attached to the name because it is not version specific. A hacked version of Publican was used to create the latest SRPMs which allowed us to do this. The reviewer is would like a concensus on whether using a forked (hacked) version of Publican to produce these files is okay or should we only allow "officia
00:07:28 <Sparks> This might be a moot point because Mike will talking about the new Publican (1.0) here in a sec...
00:07:45 <Sparks> but this might be something to look at from a distance as well.
00:07:46 <ianweller> Sparks: you fail at message lengths
00:07:52 <ianweller> Sparks: cut off at allow "officia
00:07:54 <jjmcd> Do you really need to hack Publican? Why not just make your own RPM?
00:08:17 <Sparks> ianweller: l" releases of Publican.
00:08:31 <Sparks> jjmcd: Well, at the time I was just trying to make the tool work.
00:08:46 * ianweller is against forking, just use a hacked rpm
00:09:05 <Sparks> The question is... can we use a non-supported tool to get the job done?
00:09:11 <ianweller> yes.
00:10:10 <Sparks> Anyone else?
00:10:13 <jjmcd> I would be concerned if someone needed some unavailable tool to build the document from sources. I'm less concerned about the rpm itself
00:10:27 <ianweller> yeah you would want to post what hacks you did
00:10:30 <ianweller> on the wiki, most likely
00:10:38 <ianweller> but other than that, whatever
00:10:45 <Sparks> ianweller: good point
00:10:50 <ianweller> wait.
00:11:07 <ianweller> Sparks: is the fedora-security-guide rpm created from docbook sources or does docbook stuff the rpm with html files?
00:11:14 <ianweller> s/docbook stuff/publican stuff/
00:11:25 <ianweller> also, correct me if i sound stupid
00:11:36 <Sparks> ianweller: Good question.
00:11:48 <jjmcd> ianweller, I think the answer is yes
00:11:55 <ianweller> well then
00:12:02 <ianweller> wait.
00:12:03 <Sparks> The package built correctly in koji and looks appropriate
00:12:17 <ianweller> if the hacked version of publican isn't what's on koji then how can it work
00:12:33 <jjmcd> Because koji gets the srpm
00:12:44 <Sparks> because the hacked version is what created the srpm and spec...
00:12:50 <Sparks> the spec is what the problem is
00:12:52 <ianweller> ohhhhhhhh.
00:13:08 <ianweller> yeah don't worry about forking, just say on the wiki what the changes were so other people can reproduce it.
00:13:14 <ianweller> my USD 0.02
00:13:19 <Sparks> cool
00:13:21 <Sparks> anyone else?
00:14:09 <stickster> I'm still confused
00:14:25 <stickster> Isn't the hacked version of publican needed to do the building according to the spec?
00:14:25 * bcotton is perpetually confused
00:14:34 <ianweller> lol
00:14:40 <stickster> Or is the hack *purely* to change the way the srpm/spec are created, and has nothing to do with the build process?
00:14:57 <Sparks> stickster: the hack "fixed" the spec issues
00:15:08 <Sparks> nothing to do with the build process
00:15:17 <stickster> OK, question answered, thanks
00:15:28 <Sparks> anyone else?
00:15:30 <Sparks> #agreed We can use "hacked" versions of tools (Publican) to create SRPMs.
00:15:34 <Sparks> opps
00:15:46 <Sparks> That wasn't supposed to have gone out quite yet.
00:16:05 <Sparks> #agreed We can use "hacked" versions of tools (Publican) to create SRPMs as long as it doesn't affect the build process and the "hack" is documented on the wiki.
00:16:23 <Sparks> And while we are on the subject of Publican...
00:16:26 <Sparks> #topic The new and improved (and shiny, too) Publican. <-- mhideo
00:16:27 <stickster> disco
00:16:40 <Sparks> mhideo: Tell us about Publican 1.0, please.
00:17:15 <mhideo> One of the challenges with publican is the number of features that the software needs to support
00:17:33 <mhideo> everything from glossaries in japanese to printing non-A4 sized paper
00:17:42 <mhideo> lots of other things
00:18:01 <mhideo> the package maintainer has spent the last 3 months re-writing it to use plugins
00:18:13 <mhideo> so if you want a feature, you can write a dead-simple plug in for it
00:18:39 <mhideo> that way development does not bottleneck on a single soul and individual features can be trialed buy different writers/translators
00:18:48 <mhideo> Sparks, does the above make sense?
00:19:22 <Sparks> mhideo: yes it does!
00:19:33 <Sparks> mhideo: Is there documentation available for writing a plugin?
00:19:34 <mhideo> does anyone have any questions about the above?
00:19:46 <stickster> Is this available at the fedorahosted.org/publican repo?
00:19:47 <mhideo> Sparks, that is the plan
00:20:15 <mhideo> stickster, not sure,
00:20:25 <Sparks> The documentation group is writing documentation on their documentation tool.
00:20:29 <Sparks> :)
00:20:44 <stickster> mhideo: I'll check the site quick
00:21:03 <Sparks> fh.o would probably be a good place to put all the plugins and such.
00:21:37 <mhideo> most of our efforts over the next 2 weeks will revolve around regression testing
00:21:58 <stickster> mhideo: The last change in "bin/" is 5 months ago
00:22:01 <mhideo> that has been the largest problem so far. we make a change to fix problem X, but it introduces problem Y
00:22:05 <stickster> mhideo: That can't be right, can it?
00:22:23 <mhideo> stickster, i don't know
00:22:52 <mhideo> all i know at this point is that a QA guy does the regression testing next week sometime
00:22:52 <Sparks> mhideo: I think jsmith said he would be available to help test
00:23:16 <mhideo> a good way to help would be to go through all the publican bugs and write a test case for it
00:23:28 <mhideo> that is what my week will look like
00:24:04 <Sparks> mhideo: Any idea when 1.0 will hit the Fedora repos?
00:25:02 <mhideo> Sparks, that is the hard part, scheduling. i borrow devel time and qa time from folks.
00:25:41 <Sparks> understood
00:26:00 <Sparks> Any other questions?
00:26:17 <mhideo> the above is just fyi, i would proceed with your efforts as previously planned
00:26:36 <Sparks> Okay... Thanks for the update Mike.
00:27:35 <Sparks> Okay... moving on to some F12 talk...
00:27:39 <Sparks> #topic F12 Calendar
00:27:39 <Sparks> #link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-tasks.html
00:27:42 <Sparks> #link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-and-releng-task...
00:27:46 <Sparks> #link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs.ics
00:28:07 <Sparks> These are the official calendars for the F12 release. Has everyone looked at them? Any corrections?
00:28:31 * juhp scrolls back
00:28:48 <Sparks> The first item coming down the road is just under four weeks away.
00:29:12 <Sparks> Any questions?
00:29:51 <Sparks> #topic Status on CC license discussion. <--quaid
00:30:03 <Sparks> quaid: You here?
00:30:49 <Sparks> If he shows up later we'll come back to this.
00:30:58 <Sparks> AFAIK everything is on go for the switch...
00:31:14 <Sparks> quaid has been putting the word out and I haven't heard any flak from anyone.
00:31:23 <Sparks> Does anyone have any questions or comments?
00:32:15 <Sparks> #topic Shared open-source style guide <--ke4qqq
00:32:23 <Sparks> #link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html
00:32:28 <Sparks> ke4qqq: You around?
00:33:15 <Sparks> We'll come back to this topic if he shows up.
00:33:29 <Sparks> #topic Bugzilla Component Changes
00:33:36 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Sparks/BZ_and_Guide_Table
00:34:21 <Sparks> Okay, so all the BZ products on the lower part of that table have been removed from BZ.
00:35:02 <Sparks> All the open tickets were closed as WONTFIX.
00:36:05 <Sparks> I haven't done anything with the "Move to the wiki" guides as stickster had a good idea to not move them to the wiki but just wait for the CMS to come and put them in there for development...
00:36:13 <Sparks> so we don't have to mess with formatting and such.
00:36:21 <Sparks> Any questions or comments?
00:36:48 <stickster> Sparks: Sorry, was PM'ing with someone else
00:37:51 <Sparks> stickster: Did you have anything?
00:37:54 <laubersm> did anyone check with translation teams about those two at the bottom of the abandon list? They seem to be a still relevent topic unless there is a replacement
00:38:13 <Sparks> yes..
00:38:19 <stickster> Not really Sparks -- just saw my name pop up. I agree somewhat with quaid that we don't want to move things twice, or move them in a way that decimates metadata we might want
00:38:21 <Sparks> they said dump them. they are no longer supported.
00:38:38 <laubersm> cool
00:39:01 <Sparks> stickster: Yeah. Valid. Of course I'm having problems locating some of the source... :(
00:39:19 <laubersm> other wise list looks good to me - with the "move to wiki" really meaning "move to place of a more living doc - such as wiki or cms"
00:39:38 <Sparks> laubersm: Yeah, I'll change that.
00:40:17 <stickster> Sparks: Where?
00:40:22 <stickster> Sparks: sorry, which source?
00:40:39 * laubersm sees translation quick start in the keep now...
00:40:45 * laubersm is slowly catching up
00:40:57 <Sparks> stickster: For some of the documents we were going to move to the... CMS.
00:42:36 <Sparks> Okay, anything else?
00:42:48 <stickster> Sparks: Right, I meant which documents are causing you problems
00:43:47 <Sparks> stickster: Oh, I don't remember. I'll look again this week and notate on the page.
00:44:49 <Sparks> Okay... let's move on to everyone's favorite topic... stuff to do!
00:44:55 <Sparks> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets
00:45:07 <Sparks> link http://tinyurl.com/lbrq84
00:45:07 <Sparks> The link above shows all the tickets that are currently NEW or ASSIGNED for Documentation. Please take a look in there and see if there is a ticket (or two) that you can work on. If so, please assign it to yourself. I'd like for everyone to update their tickets weekly (prefereably on Wednesdays before the meeting) so I can keep track of what needs attention and what doesn't.
00:45:13 <Sparks> Comments or questions?
00:45:16 <Sparks> #link http://tinyurl.com/lbrq84
00:48:00 <Sparks> okay... moving right along...
00:48:09 <Sparks> #topic DocsProject wiki pages changes
00:48:23 <Sparks> ianweller: I won't ask what the status is of the wikibot...
00:48:37 <Sparks> but I will ask about the status of ianbot!
00:48:40 <ricky> Interesting.
00:48:49 <ricky> Even though it's zodbot, the command is still #?
00:48:55 <ricky> s/command/character
00:49:11 <Sparks> So is there still a list of changes that need to happen to the wiki?
00:49:12 <ianweller> ricky: yeah it's cuz meetbot is a snarfer
00:49:15 <ianweller> Sparks: yes.
00:49:19 <ricky> They must have done some extra-weird stuff to get it that way.
00:49:21 <ianweller> Sparks: they're in fh.o/fedora-wiki
00:50:22 <Sparks> Okay. So can you give us a summary next week of what needs to be done? Maybe we can put a task out on the wiki for a newbie to work on.
00:51:30 * stickster sees that some of those tickets are his and will work on them this weekend
00:52:43 <Sparks> stickster: TU
00:53:23 * jjmcd_ started on some RN tickets but ran into a git wall ... need to get back at that
00:53:50 <Sparks> Okay... moving on...
00:53:57 <Sparks> #topic Release Notes meeting
00:54:39 <Sparks> I sent a message to f-doc-l earlier this week about a Release Notes meeting. Please look at that message and let me know your availability if you want to work on the F12 RNs.
00:54:44 <Sparks> Questions or comments?
00:55:06 <jjmcd_> I am now free most of thu/fri, wasn't earlier but am now
00:55:30 * Sparks doesn't know if you can go back and change your answers.
00:55:47 <jjmcd_> me too
00:56:02 <Sparks> jjmcd_: Well, let me know.
00:56:04 <Sparks> Anyone else?
00:56:27 <Sparks> #topic Guide needs?
00:56:35 <Sparks> Does anyone need anything for their guides?
00:57:22 <Sparks> #topic New Guides
00:57:31 <Sparks> Anyone have any ideas for a new guide?
00:57:44 <Sparks> I know that the RPM Guide could use some love.
00:58:59 <Sparks> Anyone want to volunteer to work on the RPM Guide?
00:59:19 <jjmcd_> I still need to hear from Florian
00:59:23 <jjmcd_> I'll ping him
00:59:38 <bcotton> i can learn what i need about RPM to work on the guide if nobody who knows what they're doing steps up
00:59:41 <Sparks> Okay. I've added the RPM Guide to the Guide table.
01:00:16 <Sparks> bcotton: The guide already exists but needs to be updated. You might look at what's existing and go from there.
01:00:45 <bcotton> sparks: can do. any guidance on what kind of updates it needs, or just in general?
01:01:01 <Sparks> in general. Not sure when it was last looked at.
01:01:14 <Sparks> bcotton: Get with me after the meeting in #fedora-docs.
01:01:24 <bcotton> Sparks: aye, cap'n
01:01:43 <jjmcd_> I think it talks about punch card rpms
01:01:56 <Sparks> oooo Those are the good kinds
01:02:05 <Sparks> s/kinds/kind
01:02:44 <jjmcd_> easier to edit than paper tape
01:02:58 * Sparks likes paper tape
01:03:14 <bcotton> did i bring my X-acto knife for nothing, then? :'(
01:03:52 <Sparks> Well, I'm sure you can figure out some way to use it.
01:04:39 <Sparks> anything else?
01:05:49 <Sparks> #topic Go over task table
01:06:01 <Sparks> I believe all the tasks that are in the task table are now in Bugzilla. I'd like to use Bugzilla for tracking all these items. Opinions?
01:07:17 <Sparks> anyone?
01:07:34 * bcotton feels very neutral
01:07:59 <Sparks> Okay then...
01:08:02 <Sparks> #topic All other business
01:08:11 <Sparks> Anyone have anything?
01:09:35 <Sparks> If not... we'll close...
01:10:28 <Sparks> 5
01:10:32 <Sparks> 4
01:10:34 <Sparks> 3
01:10:37 <Sparks> 2
01:10:40 <Sparks> 1
01:10:45 <Sparks> Thanks everyone for coming!
01:10:49 <Sparks> #endmeeting
In Ubuntu there's a "Help" button on the top menu bar that leads to a
nice help application, yelp. We have that app too, but it doesn't
seem to have the same contents, which are:
New to Ubuntu?
Adding and Removing Software
Files, Folders and Documents
Customising Your Desktop
Music, Videos and Photos
Keeping Your Computer Safe
Printing, Faxing and Scanning
And under each section there's a clear explanation of what to do.
Maybe we have something equivalent for Fedora, but I can't find it.
Can someone volunteer to comaintain python-mwlib and odfpy for me so
that they can get in proper working order?
Can somebody on Docs also write a test suite (a few commands that Docs
uses a lot) so I know whether or not we can consider it working or not?
Ian Weller <ian(a)ianweller.org>
GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36
Request the following products be removed from the Fedora Documentation
component in BZ:
All tickets in these products should be closed.
Fedora Docs Project Lead
Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043
E-Mail: sparks(a)fedoraproject.org SIP: sparks(a)talk.fedoraproject.org
IRC: Sparks on freenode.net
GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1
Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional
comments should be made in the comments box of this bug.
Eric Christensen <eric(a)christensenplace.us> changed:
What |Removed |Added
--- Comment #1 from Eric Christensen <eric(a)christensenplace.us> 2009-07-07 00:09:50 EDT ---
Ticket moved to allow products to be removed from BZ.
Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email
------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
You are on the CC list for the bug.
----- Forwarded message from Michael Hideo <mhideo(a)redhat.com> -----
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 09:01:03 +1000
From: Michael Hideo <mhideo(a)redhat.com>
Subject: [publican-list] Publican 1.0
This is a heads up email for the plan to begin testing Publican 1.0 on
These are the actions we are looking at right now to begin alpha testing the
* Installation Guide
* Security Guide
* Deployment Guide
* Virtualization Guide
* Release Notes
We will need someone from l10n to check that the translations come out
cleanly. Additionally, we will need a dedicated person to do QE against the
new bugs and to regression test against the old bugs. Also we need someone to
work between l10n and QE to ensure that all the langs still build correctly.
A few other activities that need to performed:
* Brands need to be repackaged (cc-by-sa for fedora/rh)
* Need to start a lock on the test repos
Rough timeline is sometime in the next 2 weeks. Note that the publican
software has been completely re-written from the ground up. Apparently it will
not use a "make" system but will use proper commands and actions. This will
provide more flexibility for the future and allow us to be cross platform.
More timelines and infotainment to come shortly.
publican-list mailing list
----- End forwarded message -----
----- "sankarshan" <foss.mailinglists(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 3:56 AM, Ruediger Landmann
> <r.landmann(a)redhat.com> wrote:
> > once the wiki page is up and running, you might also like to alert
> Red Hat
> > Engineering Content Services -- this is the department where the
> > documentation gets written. You can get the address from the CC on
> > email.
> I have my doubts about whether that is an external list - I can't see
> that listed off <https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/>
The need to alert an Red Hat internal mailing list about this is, IMHO, plain silly and wrong.