The logistics(a)lists.fedoraproject.org mailing list has been created to
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Anyone is welcome to join the list at:
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Att'n DocBook geeks ...
----- Forwarded message from Mary McRae <mary.mcrae(a)oasis-open.org> -----
From: Mary McRae <mary.mcrae(a)oasis-open.org>
To: members(a)lists.oasis-open.org, tc-announce(a)lists.oasis-open.org
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:17:43 -0400
Cc: docbook-tc(a)lists.oasis-open.org, OASIS TAB <tab(a)lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject: [members] Public Review of The DocBook Publishers Schema Version 1.0
To OASIS members, Public Announce Lists:
The OASIS DocBook TC has recently approved the following specification as a
Committee Draft and approved the package for public review:
The DocBook Publishers Schema Version 1.0
The public review starts today, 2 July 2009, and ends 31 August 2009. This
is an open invitation to comment. We strongly encourage feedback from
potential users, developers and others, whether OASIS members or not, for
the sake of improving the interoperability and quality of OASIS work.
Please feel free to distribute this announcement within your organization
and to other appropriate mail lists.
More non-normative information about the specification and the technical
committee may be found at the public home page of the TC at:
Comments may be submitted to the TC by any person through the use of the
OASIS TC Comment Facility which can be located via the button marked "Send
A Comment" at the top of that page, or directly at:
Submitted comments (for this work as well as other works of that TC) are
publicly archived and can be viewed at:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/docbook-comment/. All comments
submitted to OASIS are subject to the OASIS Feedback License, which
ensures that the feedback you provide carries the same obligations at
least as the obligations of the TC members.
The specification document and related files are available here:
OASIS and the DocBook TC welcome your comments.
Mary P McRae
Director, Technical Committee Administration
OASIS: Advancing open standards for the information society
twitter: fiberartisan #oasisopen
This email list is used solely by OASIS for official consortium communications.
Opt-out requests may be sent to member-services(a)oasis-open.org, however, all members are strongly encouraged to maintain a subscription to this list.
----- End forwarded message -----
Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener
00:00:44 <Sparks> #startmeeting
00:01:01 <Sparks> #maintopic Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting
00:01:39 <Sparks> Hmmm....
00:01:45 <Sparks> #topic Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting
00:01:51 <Sparks> Roll Call!!!
00:01:54 * Sparks is here
00:01:59 * radsy is here
00:02:00 <ianweller> hi!
00:02:07 * jjmcd is here
00:02:12 <joat> annette!
00:02:16 * ianweller adds something to the agenda really fast
00:02:21 * poelcat here for ~ 30min (schedule worked out)
00:03:30 * ianweller is done adding things to the agenda
00:03:32 <Sparks> poelcat: Great, we'll get you in at the beginning
00:03:34 * quaid is here
00:03:39 <Sparks> ianweller: noted
00:03:48 <ianweller> Sparks: oh you were looking for #meetingtopic earlier instead of #maintopic
00:03:55 <ianweller> Sparks: or you can pass that as an argument to #startmeeting.
00:04:19 * Sparks moves some things around...
00:04:34 <Sparks> ianweller: That's what I was looking for... Gees...
00:04:35 <Sparks> TU
00:05:43 <Sparks> Okay... I've modified the agenda a bit...
00:06:04 <Sparks> #meetingtopic Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting
00:06:19 <Sparks> #topic F12 Calendar <-- poelcat
00:06:51 <Sparks> poelcat has been nice enough to create a calendar for us for the F12 release...
00:06:58 <poelcat> looking to see if there was any feedback on the schedules I proposed
00:07:02 <Sparks> and he sent it to everyone via the list.
00:07:13 <Sparks> Has everyone looked at it?
00:07:26 <poelcat> also curious if there was any interest in the ical/ics file?
00:07:28 * Sparks goes to get the links real quick.
00:07:38 <Sparks> poelcat: I like the ical...
00:07:47 <ianweller> someone have a link handy?
00:07:53 <quaid> it's worth having anyway
00:07:57 <jjmcd> Don't know enough about what we are going to do to know whether it makes sense or not
00:08:00 <Sparks> #link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-tasks.html
00:08:12 <Sparks> #link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-and-releng-task...
00:08:20 <Sparks> #link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs.ics
00:08:32 <Sparks> The first link is the docs tasks on a calendar...
00:08:46 <Sparks> the second link is the docs + releng tasks on a calendar...
00:08:57 <Sparks> and the third link is the docs ics
00:09:39 <Sparks> jjmcd: This is the master calendar for the F12 release.
00:09:52 <jjmcd> Yes, but I have significant questions
00:09:59 <Sparks> jjmcd: go!
00:10:11 <jjmcd> Now that alpha is a real alpha, for example, does the 1 page RN's make sense
00:10:37 <jjmcd> Before alpha was a hoax, now it is feature complete
00:10:59 <poelcat> i took the previous "beta" tasks and relabled them "alpha"
00:11:21 <jjmcd> That is probably not too bad an approximation
00:11:42 <jjmcd> Especially since we probably don't really know how alpha and beta will turn out
00:11:56 <poelcat> the biggest things to consider are "is there enough time to do the tasks listed and do the order of events look right"
00:12:04 <jjmcd> What Jesse things might not turne out
00:12:11 <poelcat> + based on what you learned in F11... have we factored that in
00:12:48 <jjmcd> I think that is a good start
00:13:07 <poelcat> i can always change/adjust things
00:13:32 <poelcat> and most importantly as you notice things in F12 that don't work well that you want to change for F13... tell me as they happen
00:13:46 <poelcat> and i'll start factoring them into a draft for f13
00:14:13 * poelcat says f13 for one more channel highlight for jesse ;-)
00:14:35 <Sparks> Gees, are we already thinking f13?
00:14:46 <poelcat> well nobody else probably is, but I do :)
00:14:51 <Sparks> I mean, gees, we just got done with f11 and we are already thinking f13?
00:14:56 <Sparks> f13
00:14:57 <ianweller> always think ahead
00:15:01 <Sparks> f13... Wow... f13
00:15:02 <Sparks> :)
00:15:09 <quaid> yeah, poor Jesse
00:15:22 <quaid> his nick will light up for _years_
00:15:32 <poelcat> another important thing to consider is handoffs between translation team and docs
00:15:49 <poelcat> and to verify if those look right
00:16:03 <Sparks> jjmcd: How long did it take the translators to finish the RN for f11?
00:16:17 <jjmcd> several weeks - three i think
00:16:36 <poelcat> i created another special version for that: http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-and-trans-tasks...
00:16:37 <Sparks> and that's with making changes along the way, right?
00:16:47 <jjmcd> yes
00:17:13 * Sparks would still like to figure out a better process so we aren't making so many changes
00:17:16 <jjmcd> I think it ought to go better with propere warning
00:18:47 <Sparks> Yeah
00:18:57 <Sparks> so any more input to the calendar?
00:19:12 <Sparks> poelcat: Can you put our weekly meeting on the ics?
00:20:07 <poelcat> Sparks: i can definitely try... there are some things that make creating the ics not so straight forward
00:20:15 <Sparks> I can imagine.
00:20:20 <Sparks> Okay, anything else about this topic?
00:20:26 <poelcat> as just building the taskjuggler file, but it will either work or it won't
00:20:33 <poelcat> the challenge is landing it at the right time
00:20:38 <poelcat> i'll look into it
00:20:48 <Sparks> Thanks
00:21:05 <poelcat> what is the official meeting time in UTC ?
00:21:22 <Sparks> 0001 UTC
00:21:31 <Sparks> and we go for an hour or so
00:21:34 <poelcat> got it.. that's all from me
00:21:39 <Sparks> Thanks!
00:21:41 <Sparks> Anyone else?
00:21:58 <Sparks> #topic Status on CC license discussion. <--quaid
00:22:06 * Sparks hears quaid has news
00:23:00 <Sparks> quaid: Ummm... quaid?
00:23:02 <joat> mebbe he didn't hear his que
00:23:05 <quaid> ok
00:23:11 <quaid> yeah, silent alarm or what
00:23:23 <quaid> I don't have any more news than what was on list
00:23:31 <quaid> i) we seem to have consensus
00:23:50 <quaid> ii) but there is concern that people will feel overridden by the CLA directives being used
00:24:10 <quaid> iii) I'm writing a blog post that gives all the Real and Great Reasons we need to enact the nuclear option in the CLA
00:24:32 <quaid> once that is out there...maybe a thread'O'doom on f-devel-l is called for?
00:24:43 <quaid> the point is, we need to alert people the change is imminent
00:24:50 <quaid> maybe set a deadline for comments? 2 weeks?
00:24:56 <quaid> and spread the word wide and noisy
00:24:57 <quaid> wait
00:24:58 <quaid> then do it
00:25:01 <quaid> <eof.
00:25:04 <quaid> comments? questions?
00:25:08 <Sparks> Well... I'd like a quick vote... Does anyone have any problem with using the CLA to push the license change?
00:25:24 <quaid> vote--
00:25:25 <Sparks> +1 to changing the license using the nuclear option
00:25:31 <quaid> we have a consensus on list
00:25:34 <rudi> +1
00:25:52 <quaid> if there are objections,we need to take them right back to the discussion, is all I'm saying.
00:25:56 <Sparks> quaid: Yeah, I just want to make sure no one here has any problems that we can work on now.
00:26:02 <quaid> so even a single -1 == back to the list IMO
00:26:10 <Sparks> yes
00:26:30 <quaid> did I sufficiently answer Sparks questions on list?
00:26:44 <quaid> that was what made me realize I needed to do a wider post; reexplain from the top,etc.
00:26:47 <ianweller> what?
00:26:57 <quaid> ianweller: your coffee is boiling over
00:27:23 <ianweller> ocrap
00:27:25 <ianweller> ;)
00:27:40 <ianweller> quaid: oh god a thread'O'doom?!
00:27:47 <ianweller> i don't need more email than i'm already getting
00:28:33 <Sparks> Anyone care to put a vote down or am I to assume that no vote is a +1 vote?
00:28:43 <jjmcd> I'll vote 0
00:28:47 <quaid> ianweller: I expect arrows, mud,and pitch
00:29:01 <ianweller> quaid: i expect all of that to be flaming. :(
00:29:03 <quaid> when we tell people that the CLA needs to be used to change a license like that
00:29:14 * ianweller votes 0 on the proposal, i just wanna nuclearize it now ;)
00:29:23 <quaid> jjmcd: are you unsettled by something?
00:29:40 <quaid> at the least,folks,make sure I answer all the questions when I write this article :)
00:29:43 <jjmcd> I like the CC by SA, a little uncomfortable wit pushing too hard
00:30:09 <quaid> my argument is that we are on a teeny, tiny island all by ourselves
00:30:18 <Sparks> jjmcd: The problem we have is the problem of calling in everyone that has ever touched anything that is covered by the license. We just can't do that.
00:30:19 <quaid> for example,we rewrite GNOME docs each release.
00:30:40 <quaid> for our ability to do open content
00:30:41 <jjmcd> Yeah, the best we can do is to get all our current contributors to buy in
00:30:48 <quaid> the relicensing is crucial
00:31:16 <Sparks> jjmcd: Yes and I think we (Docs) has been doing that.
00:31:30 <quaid> ok, I'll write my piece, cross post it,and see where that goes
00:31:41 <jjmcd> I haven't heard objections, but I haven't heard from laubersm, don't recall Zach
00:31:43 <quaid> OK with setting a 2 week deadline for discussion?
00:32:03 <jjmcd> Sounds like a plan
00:32:11 <quaid> Apache consensus rules are in effect
00:32:16 <Sparks> quaid: Yes... 2 weeks from today. If we need to we'll hold a town hall meeting and I'll put you at the front of the room. :)
00:32:26 <quaid> if someone doesn't speak up in a reasonable period of time, that is taken as consent :)
00:32:33 <quaid> Sparks: OK!
00:32:58 <jjmcd> But lets make a special effort to be sure the F10 contributors have heard the story
00:32:58 <Sparks> :)
00:33:06 <quaid> jjmcd: how?
00:33:11 <quaid> that is, we've been discussing it on list for 6 weeks
00:33:30 <jjmcd> Direct email to those that haven't been here - I doubt there's more than 2 or three
00:33:53 <quaid> ok
00:33:57 * quaid will do that
00:34:10 <jjmcd> I don't forsee a problem, but some have been busy lately, I'm thinking of laubersm but I suspect there may be one or two others
00:34:16 <Sparks> quaid: We can hit the list that goes to everyone that is on the Docs FAS group
00:34:38 <quaid> Sparks: but they should all be on f-docs-l
00:34:45 <quaid> I'll email people
00:34:52 <quaid> who committed changes to any repo for the last two releases
00:35:04 <jjmcd> Yeah, I don't know we need to go after the whole list - quaid - exactly
00:35:11 <quaid> but I don't want to circumnavigate the established channels of communication.
00:35:29 <quaid> the list == the channel, but hey :)
00:35:35 <jjmcd> ;-)
00:36:29 <jjmcd> After listening to Paul and Jan maybe I'm a little over sensitive
00:36:59 <Sparks> Okay, anything else?
00:37:57 <Sparks> #topic Ian has news from CC on the licensing change marketing whatnottery
00:38:00 <Sparks> ianweller: Go!
00:39:16 <Sparks> Is someone else asleep?
00:40:10 <jjmcd> hmmm - while I was watching ianweller changed from 10 minutes ago to 144 minutes ago, whats up with that
00:40:16 <Sparks> Okay, we'll come back to him.
00:40:20 <ianweller> what?
00:40:21 <ianweller> i'm here
00:40:30 <ianweller> sorry :)
00:40:34 <quaid> marketeer time
00:40:35 <Sparks> ianweller: ^^^ topic
00:40:46 <ianweller> http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-July/msg00003.html <-- got this from CC today.
00:40:51 <ianweller> it's been sent to fedora-docs-list as you can tell.
00:40:59 <ianweller> that's all i've got ;)
00:42:00 <Sparks> ianweller: Well... what is it?
00:42:12 <ianweller> that they're willing to make a blog post
00:42:28 <ianweller> saying "hey look they switched licenses whee"
00:42:35 <ianweller> and we just need top ing them when we're ready to do that
00:43:12 <Sparks> cool
00:43:16 <Sparks> Anyone have any questions?
00:44:02 <Sparks> #topic Shared open-source style guide
00:44:08 <Sparks> ke4qqq: You around tonight?
00:45:20 <Sparks> I guess not.
00:45:39 <Sparks> I don't think there has been any change. Does anyone have any questions or comments?
00:46:24 <ianweller> no
00:46:27 <Sparks> #topic Bugzilla Component Changes
00:46:38 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Sparks/BZ_and_Guide_Table
00:46:58 <Sparks> So I started the process of moving files around and removing the products from our BZ component.
00:47:22 <Sparks> If anyone has a project that needs to be in BZ please let me know and I can get you setup pretty quickly.
00:47:31 <Sparks> Anyone have any questions or comments?
00:48:23 <Sparks> #topic
00:48:28 <Sparks> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets
00:48:42 <Sparks> #link http://tinyurl.com/lgx98o
00:48:54 <Sparks> If everyone would take a look at the above link...
00:49:03 <ianweller> those tickets are just outstanding! ;)
00:49:13 <Sparks> these are the outstanding tickets that were opened during the month of June that haven't been accepted.
00:49:40 <Sparks> ianweller: Yes they are because these are tickets that people filed because they care enough about our products!
00:49:51 <ianweller> :D
00:50:58 <Sparks> I'm not going to go through them all tonight but I would like to start running through the ones we need to work on so we can respond to the appropriately.
00:51:10 <Sparks> but feel free to take one!
00:52:07 <Sparks> questions?
00:52:25 <Sparks> #topic DocsProject wiki pages changes
00:52:32 <Sparks> ianweller: What's the word on wikibot?
00:52:42 <ianweller> it's on my to-do list
00:53:29 <Sparks> Okay...
00:53:42 <ianweller> IOW, nothing. :(
00:54:04 <Sparks> Yeah... Well, we should probably revisit this again and see what needs to be done.
00:54:09 <Sparks> questions?
00:54:51 <Sparks> #topic With the new definition of alpha and beta, do we need to treat release notes differently?
00:54:58 <Sparks> jjmcd: Did you put this up there?
00:55:04 <jjmcd> Yes
00:55:20 <jjmcd> I wonder whether the one pager is in keeping with "feature complete"
00:55:45 <jjmcd> Not sure that it is realistic to do much more so early tho
00:55:56 <Sparks> the one pager? Is this the idea stickster_afk had at the FAD?
00:56:03 <jjmcd> But I haven't fully digested the schedule and what it means
00:56:12 <jjmcd> No, that's what poelcat just sait
00:56:15 <jjmcd> said
00:56:41 <jjmcd> What we used to do for beta
00:56:47 <Sparks> Ahhh
00:57:06 <Sparks> Well, if you want to do something different this time around I'm all ears.
00:57:21 <jjmcd> f13 really wants alpha and beta to actually be alpha and beta, and I understand his point
00:57:38 <jjmcd> but I obviously can't predict whether what he wants will actually happen
00:58:26 <jjmcd> So perhaps this needs another week for a more meaningful discussion, with proposals for ppl to chew on
00:59:03 <Sparks> worksfor me
00:59:18 <jjmcd> I'll digest it all over the next week
00:59:42 <jjmcd> Still haven't dug out from my email since I was away
00:59:59 <jjmcd> All that Berliner Kindl you know
01:00:07 <Sparks> :)
01:00:56 <Sparks> okay, so we'll discuss it more next week.
01:01:06 <jjmcd> Also I spoke with glezos and the German translator about their problems
01:01:22 <Sparks> Anything to report?
01:01:37 <jjmcd> Not really, just what you would expect, except perhaps
01:01:49 <jjmcd> that the new transifex will help us both
01:01:58 <rudi> Amen
01:02:20 <Sparks> when will that be up and running?
01:02:29 <rudi> Well, it's finally been packaged
01:02:40 <Sparks> That's encouraging.
01:02:42 <rudi> So I guess RSN :)
01:03:10 <rudi> As I understand, that was the blocker
01:03:28 <quaid> usually is
01:03:36 <rudi> ;)
01:03:40 <jjmcd> Also
01:03:46 * quaid >muffle, muffle, murg<
01:04:16 <jjmcd> spot didn't laugh too much at my spec file, so I guess I have more confidence in pushing to do whatever I need to in order to won that and get Jesse out of the loop
01:04:24 * ianweller has to run, bye
01:04:30 <jjmcd> s/won/own
01:04:40 <jjmcd> seeYA ianweller
01:06:33 <jjmcd> eof
01:06:34 <Sparks> Okay, anything else?
01:06:46 <Sparks> #topic Guide needs?
01:06:53 <Sparks> Anyone have any needs for their guides?
01:07:41 <Sparks> I guess not...
01:07:48 <Sparks> #topic New Guides
01:07:55 <Sparks> Okay, someone put down the RPM guide
01:07:58 <Sparks> Who was that?
01:08:06 <jjmcd> Florian asked if we could take over the rpm guide
01:08:19 <jjmcd> apparently the guide in docs.fp.o might not be THE guide
01:08:21 <Sparks> Who is Florian?
01:08:36 <jjmcd> he is going to send me a link to their repo so I can look at it
01:08:42 <Sparks> I have no problems with it. I have a ticket open for it to be moved to the wiki for redevelopment.
01:08:49 <jjmcd> and then come to one of our meetings to discuss it
01:09:01 <Sparks> .bug 508930
01:09:02 <jjmcd> I see that, not sure that wiki is the desired target but
01:09:03 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=508930 medium, low, ---, fedora-docs-list, NEW, Move RPM Guide to wiki
01:09:06 <zodbot> Sparks: Bug 508930 Move RPM Guide to wiki - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=508930
01:09:07 <buggbot> Bug 508930: medium, low, ---, fedora-docs-list, NEW, Move RPM Guide to wiki
01:09:08 <quaid> um what?
01:09:19 <quaid> which guide is not which guide?
01:09:28 <jjmcd> we can discuss it when we have him on channel
01:09:32 <quaid> ok
01:09:53 <quaid> fwiw, yeah, converting from XML to wiki is rarely a good idea :)
01:10:05 <jjmcd> I think he is talking about the guide at rpm.org
01:10:27 <jjmcd> Evidently the rpm guys can't even build th guide
01:10:52 <Sparks> quaid: I know but things die in docs.fp.o, too
01:11:00 <jjmcd> So for now, jut a heads up that this is coming
01:11:28 <Sparks> jjmcd: Cool
01:11:28 <quaid> oh, I wonder if the one at rpm.org is the same guide, of sourts
01:11:31 <Sparks> Anyone else?
01:11:32 <quaid> ok, I'll hold my fire.
01:13:20 <Sparks> #topic All other business
01:13:27 <Sparks> Okay, does anyone have anything else?
01:14:15 <Sparks> 5
01:14:18 <Sparks> 4
01:14:20 <Sparks> 3
01:14:23 <Sparks> 2
01:14:26 <Sparks> 1
01:14:33 <Sparks> Thanks for everyone coming!
01:14:36 <Sparks> #endmeeting
----- Forwarded message from Mike Linksvayer <ml(a)creativecommons.org> -----
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 15:05:03 -0700
From: Mike Linksvayer <ml(a)creativecommons.org>
To: Ian Weller <ianweller(a)fedoraproject.org>
Subject: Re: Fedora Project documentation moving to CC BY-SA
Yes, would be glad to. Ping us when the relicensing is done and we
can blog it. Or if you want a quote for a press release or something,
can provide that too.
On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Ian Weller<ianweller(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> (paulproteus on IRC sent me your way...)
> Hi, I'm on the Docs Team at the Fedora Project , and we're very close
> to relicensing our documentation (and potentially our wiki) under the CC
> BY-SA license (pending our legal team giving multiple nods).
> We were wondering if you could provide us with a little marketing buzz
> on the subject. Let me know what we can work out. :)
> Ian Weller <ianweller(a)fedoraproject.org>
> GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36
http://support.creativecommons.org help us
----- End forwarded message -----
Ian Weller <ian(a)ianweller.org>
GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36