=====================================================
#fedora-meeting-1: Docs Project Release Notes Meeting
=====================================================
Meeting started by Sparks at 15:01:18 UTC. The `full
logs`_ are available.
.. _`full logs`: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-06-15.01.log.html
Meeting log
-----------
* **Roll Call** (Sparks-15:01:27_)
* **Old Business** (Sparks-15:05:51_)
* *LINK*: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jjmcd/Drafts/Browsers
(jjmcd-15:07:07_)
* *ACTION*: jjmcd to contact lynx developers about homepage
(Sparks-15:10:12_)
* *ACTION*: jjmcd to contact #f-devel-l about deprecating homepage
(Sparks-15:10:31_)
* **What to include in the RN RPM** (Sparks-15:21:02_)
* *LINK*:
http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/release-notes/devel/README-Accessibilit…
(Sparks-15:29:06_)
* *IDEA*: We individualize all the packages and not ship them
together. (Sparks-15:31:16_)
* *ACTION*: Sparks to investigate how RH handles various languages of
Publican docs (Sparks-16:13:07_)
.. _Sparks-15:01:27: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-06-15.01.log.html#l-2
.. _Sparks-15:05:51: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-06-15.01.log.html#l-12
.. _jjmcd-15:07:07: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-06-15.01.log.html#l-17
.. _Sparks-15:10:12: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-06-15.01.log.html#l-29
.. _Sparks-15:10:31: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-06-15.01.log.html#l-30
.. _Sparks-15:21:02: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-06-15.01.log.html#l-74
.. _Sparks-15:29:06: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-06-15.01.log.html#l-106
.. _Sparks-15:31:16: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-06-15.01.log.html#l-115
.. _Sparks-16:13:07: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-06-15.01.log.html#l-258
Meeting ended at 16:14:06 UTC.
Action Items
------------
* jjmcd to contact lynx developers about homepage
* jjmcd to contact #f-devel-l about deprecating homepage
* Sparks to investigate how RH handles various languages of Publican
docs
Action Items, by person
-----------------------
* jjmcd
* jjmcd to contact lynx developers about homepage
* jjmcd to contact #f-devel-l about deprecating homepage
* Sparks
* Sparks to investigate how RH handles various languages of Publican
docs
* **UNASSIGNED**
* (none)
People Present (lines said)
---------------------------
* Sparks (116)
* jjmcd (116)
* Kevin_Kofler (15)
* zoglesby (14)
Generated by `MeetBot`_
.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
15:01:18 <Sparks> #startmeeting Docs Project Release Notes Meeting
15:01:27 <Sparks> #topic Roll Call
15:01:28 * Sparks
15:01:46 * jjmcd .
15:03:28 <jjmcd> I thought zack was gonna be here, don't know who else
15:03:28 * Sparks wonders if rudi fell asleep
15:04:04 <jjmcd> It is the middle of the night there,
15:05:04 <jjmcd> Maybe we'll just make a decision and move on
15:05:12 <Sparks> WORKSFORME
15:05:41 * Sparks was also thinking that we had to use -1 room because the regular meeting room was occupied.
15:05:45 <Sparks> Oh well...
15:05:51 <Sparks> #topic Old Business
15:06:07 <Sparks> jjmcd to determine the affected browsers and contact the developers for the homepage project
15:06:17 <Sparks> I think this was for "homepage"?
15:06:27 <jjmcd> identified browsers, haven't contqacted developers
15:06:45 <Sparks> Which browsers were affected? Was it just Lynx?
15:07:07 <jjmcd> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jjmcd/Drafts/Browsers
15:07:13 <jjmcd> Yes, just lynx
15:07:42 <jjmcd> Pretty inconsistent behavior from browser to browser, though
15:07:42 <Sparks> Cool. That should be easy.
15:07:55 <Sparks> Ya... What is the proposed fix?
15:08:20 <jjmcd> Probably an internal message like the other browsers would make sense
15:08:28 <Sparks> Ok
15:08:40 <Sparks> So we are depreciating homepage
15:09:02 <jjmcd> I can't see where it makes sense to keep it unless lynx wants to include it in their rpm
15:09:18 <jjmcd> But we should probably send a note to devel-list first
15:09:23 <Sparks> Ya
15:09:42 <jjmcd> So many things have embedded browsers who knows
15:10:12 <Sparks> #action jjmcd to contact lynx developers about homepage
15:10:31 <Sparks> #action jjmcd to contact #f-devel-l about deprecating homepage
15:10:34 <Sparks> anything else?
15:10:51 <jjmcd> I think that takes care of homepage, now, what else wants to be in the rpm
15:11:03 <Sparks> jjmcd to determine space differentials between the combined RN and the individual files in RPMs
15:11:10 <Sparks> ^^^ The other item from last week
15:11:17 <jjmcd> oh yeah, forgot that one
15:11:34 <Sparks> next week?
15:11:41 <jjmcd> I was more concerned about the whole text, html, xml think
15:11:45 <jjmcd> thing
15:12:03 <jjmcd> Should we make all these consistent?
15:12:19 <jjmcd> Should we drop the html which nobody can find anyway?
15:12:19 <Sparks> prolly
15:12:35 <Sparks> we should simplify everything
15:12:45 <Sparks> don't ship stuff that we don't need in formats no one uses
15:13:08 <jjmcd> Personally, I would like to see everything in yelp, nice consistent appearance, easy to find
15:13:29 <Sparks> Does that work in KDE and other desktop environments?
15:13:30 <jjmcd> there is a scrollkeeper tab in kde help, but it doesn't seem to do anything
15:13:42 <jjmcd> but then I am having trouble testing kde
15:13:59 * Sparks should probably install KDE on his box
15:14:04 <jjmcd> can't boot a stick, and my vm install seems weird
15:14:36 <jjmcd> I have kde as another wm, but that isn't the same as having a pure kde box
15:14:44 <Sparks> Ya
15:14:53 <zoglesby> Sorry I am late
15:14:59 <jjmcd> hi zach
15:15:18 <jjmcd> lessee -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jjmcd/Drafts/Browsers
15:15:26 <jjmcd> I didn't contact the lynx guys yet
15:15:41 <jjmcd> zoglesby, do you us kde?
15:16:02 <zoglesby> no
15:16:11 <zoglesby> xmonad and sometimes gnome
15:16:30 <jjmcd> how does yelp work for you?
15:16:32 <Sparks> zoglesby: You can test xmonad for us, then
15:16:47 <zoglesby> test what? yelp?
15:17:10 <jjmcd> Trying to decide whether we can get away with release notes in xml only
15:17:46 <jjmcd> We do have a bug, tho, that makes no sense to me. Changelog doesn't show in yelp
15:19:08 <Sparks> doesn't Publican put the changelog inside the document?
15:19:13 <jjmcd> yes
15:19:28 <jjmcd> that why it makes no sense
15:19:42 <Sparks> just point to it and move on
15:19:45 <Sparks> IMO
15:19:59 <jjmcd> yeah, that one isn't high on my list
15:20:24 <jjmcd> so we have release notes, about fedora, readme, readme burning isos and readme live image all in yelp
15:20:35 <jjmcd> Whether separate RPMs tbd
15:20:48 <Sparks> Well...
15:20:55 <Sparks> let's address that now...
15:21:02 <Sparks> #topic What to include in the RN RPM
15:21:10 <Sparks> So there is...
15:21:28 <Sparks> About Fedora, readme, readme burning isos, and readme live image
15:21:41 <jjmcd> OK, I had readme accessibility as a separate topic in my mind, but we should address that, too
15:21:52 <Sparks> I think the last two shouldn't be distributed
15:22:08 <Sparks> I think we address those two topics in various guides and on the wiki
15:22:15 <jjmcd> because you already know if you got there
15:22:22 <Sparks> ya
15:22:23 <jjmcd> I can buy that
15:22:40 <Sparks> I say we remove those completely
15:22:53 <jjmcd> No complaints from this quarter
15:23:01 <Sparks> zoglesby: ?
15:23:06 <zoglesby> I agree
15:23:15 <Sparks> Okay. What is the readme?
15:23:20 <jjmcd> ok a little less clutter
15:23:25 <jjmcd> what about accessibility?
15:23:29 <zoglesby> no point in telling a user how to burn a cd if its in the iso
15:23:37 <zoglesby> they cant see it until after they burn it
15:24:00 <Sparks> jjmcd: What is in the accessibility document?
15:24:42 <jjmcd> dunno
15:24:49 <jjmcd> it went missing around 9 or 10
15:25:08 <jjmcd> wait, I have an f8 box
15:25:14 <Sparks> I think that should probably be a guide.
15:25:28 * Sparks assumes it talks about using Fedora with screen readers and such
15:25:43 <zoglesby> that would be my guess
15:26:09 <jjmcd> Oh yeah, it talks about legal requirements and such
15:26:32 <jjmcd> lists a boatload of solutions
15:26:46 <Sparks> Can you send that to me?
15:26:58 <jjmcd> should be in git
15:27:22 <jjmcd> looking
15:27:43 * Sparks doesn't see it
15:28:35 <jjmcd> I don't either ... K, I'll send it. Take some dancing tho, its on my firewall which is mostly devoid of software
15:29:06 <Sparks> http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/release-notes/devel/README-Accessibilit…
15:29:10 <Sparks> jjmcd: Is that it?
15:29:23 <jjmcd> I think so
15:29:27 <jjmcd> Lets recap
15:29:49 <jjmcd> yelp contains RNs, about-fedora, readme and readme-accessibility
15:30:00 <jjmcd> # of RPMs tbd
15:30:12 <jjmcd> We will somehow check that KDE can use
15:31:06 <jjmcd> That looks familiar
15:31:06 <zoglesby> I will check xmonad and evilwm
15:31:16 <Sparks> #idea We individualize all the packages and not ship them together.
15:31:47 <jjmcd> Perhaps we have an RN-gnome and RN-kde?
15:32:38 <Sparks> I think that's just more work
15:33:00 <jjmcd> I wonder whether that section 508 stuff has been expanded since 2000
15:33:44 * Sparks summons Kevin_Kofler to ask about KDE stuff
15:34:07 <Sparks> jjmcd: I used to do some of the accessibility stuff for East Carolina University
15:34:10 <jjmcd> Sparks, yeah, probably right. If we can make yelp/scrollkeeper work in kde we should be happy with that
15:34:19 <Sparks> I want to Publicanize that document and make it a guide
15:34:50 <jjmcd> Will you make a guide rpm for yelp?
15:36:11 <Sparks> Well... I can make it a package and make it available in the repo.
15:36:30 * Sparks isn't sure how things get installed by default
15:36:44 <Sparks> But I think it might be helpful to have that information available BEFORE installing
15:36:56 <jjmcd> Well, if I installed selinux-guide it would be nice to see it in yelp with the rest of the docs
15:37:11 <Sparks> it doesn't?
15:37:35 <jjmcd> No, the guides are html
15:38:02 * Sparks sees his guides in System->Documentation
15:38:15 <Sparks> right above Help and About Fedora and...
15:38:26 <jjmcd> Look in help
15:39:09 <Sparks> That's an odd place for those... I mean... maybe not odd but I sure wouldn't go looking there
15:39:17 * Sparks isn't the "help" kinda guy
15:39:48 <jjmcd> Well, "Documentation" doesn't show up until you install a guide
15:40:21 <Sparks> Yes
15:40:46 <Sparks> I think it makes it stand out more.
15:41:01 <Sparks> Because you'll know that something has changed when you install the package
15:41:08 <Sparks> otherwise you might not know where to go and look
15:41:11 <jjmcd> Maybe it makes more sense to put About-Fedora, Readme, Readme-Accessibility and Release-Notes in "Documentation" and leave yelp for the gnome stuff
15:42:00 <Sparks> Maybe
15:42:04 <jjmcd> Again, though, what does that look like in kde?
15:42:13 <jjmcd> That kde menu is just plain weird
15:42:22 <Sparks> yeah.
15:42:34 <Sparks> Apparently no one in #fedora-kde want to come join us
15:42:40 <jjmcd> we need rudi
15:42:48 <Sparks> I'll install KDE later today and will start playing around
15:42:49 <zoglesby> rudi rudi rudi
15:42:55 <jjmcd> Maybe they're all in AUS
15:43:16 <jjmcd> I would if today wasn't so bloody full
15:43:17 <Sparks> Maybe
15:43:34 <zoglesby> the menu issue with kde 4 will be an issue with gnome 3 (shell) anyway
15:44:01 <zoglesby> at least from what I have seen about it
15:44:03 <jjmcd> I tried it on a stick this morning, no joy. Then in a VM, only a few minutes to play tho. I have a free partition on my big box, I just hate to reboot it to play
15:44:08 <jjmcd> Aaarghh
15:44:51 <Sparks> Okay
15:45:00 <Sparks> So Accessibility will be taken care of...
15:45:02 <Sparks> what's left?
15:45:23 <Sparks> About-Fedora and Readme
15:46:02 <Sparks> Where is the readme and do we really need that?
15:46:05 <jjmcd> Isn't that kinda small for a guide - acc I mean
15:46:21 <jjmcd> readme has a bunch of misc stuff, i think its pretty useful
15:46:38 <jjmcd> although currently most people will never find it
15:46:43 <Sparks> Maybe, but it is important and I think it should be available in as many formats and to as many people as possible
15:46:57 <jjmcd> now that it is publicanized and on the menu it is probably more useful
15:47:25 <Sparks> Well... I still think packaging everything separately is better
15:47:44 <Sparks> I don't really care if you want it or not... if you think it is good then I say keep it!
15:47:58 <jjmcd> Yeah, I think we should.
15:48:32 <jjmcd> I notice the readmes weren't localized in F8
15:48:36 <jjmcd> interesting
15:49:06 <jjmcd> Oh, sorry, only accessibility wasn't localized
15:49:23 <jjmcd> hey
15:49:23 <Kevin_Kofler> So I was summoned?
15:49:29 <jjmcd> there's our kde expert
15:49:57 <jjmcd> We were trying to decide about formats for RN's, etc.
15:49:58 <Sparks> Kevin_Kofler: Oh do we have questions for you
15:50:07 <Sparks> RNs == Release Notes
15:50:32 <jjmcd> Right now we have an uneven mix of formats, some html, some text, some xml
15:50:37 <jjmcd> want to clean that up
15:50:58 <jjmcd> Our default is to put everything in yelp but we don't know what that does to kde
15:51:09 <Kevin_Kofler> That's horrible.
15:51:12 <Kevin_Kofler> KDE can't open Yelp files.
15:51:17 <Kevin_Kofler> And Yelp isn't on the KDE spin at all.
15:51:25 <Kevin_Kofler> As it requires the xulrunner stack.
15:51:32 <jjmcd> doesn't scrollkeeper read those files?
15:52:25 <Kevin_Kofler> I don't know. But it's not part of KDE either, I don't think we have this on the KDE spin at this time either.
15:52:46 <jjmcd> I found scrollkeeper in help on the kde live image, but it didn't seem to do anything
15:53:14 <Sparks> Kevin_Kofler: Can you install fedora-security-guide-en-US and tell us how it shows up on your KDE system?
15:53:15 <jjmcd> So, by default, publican puts files under a "Documentation" menu, does that work?
15:53:26 <Kevin_Kofler> Hmmm... http://scrollkeeper.sourceforge.net/browsers.shtml
15:53:47 <Kevin_Kofler> Looks like if you use Scrollkeeper format as opposed to Yelp's native format, you should get the doc to show up in both Yelp and KHelpCenter.
15:53:48 <Sparks> jjmcd: Publican == HTML, right?
15:53:59 <jjmcd> If that's what you build
15:54:14 <Sparks> jjmcd: make srpm-en-US
15:54:40 <jjmcd> yelp is just xml
15:54:41 <Kevin_Kofler> Hmmm, I'm still running F10, the XZ-payload RPMs won't install here. :-(
15:56:50 <Kevin_Kofler> What I do know is that KDE's help browser, KHelpCenter, won't open GNOME programs' Yelp documentations.
15:56:56 <Kevin_Kofler> It doesn't understand the format.
15:57:15 <jjmcd> hmmm, my kde help doesn't look remotely like that
15:57:26 <zoglesby> maybe we need to talk to the teams and get that fixed
15:57:47 <zoglesby> a format that works on both
15:57:49 <jjmcd> Well, there are a pile of auxiliary files, gnome might not provide them
15:59:30 <Kevin_Kofler> My recommendation is to go with plain HTML for the documentation, it works everywhere.
16:00:13 <Sparks> I think that is the output of Publican in srpm mode
16:00:38 <jjmcd> Well, not "plain" html, but rudi is fixing that
16:00:39 * Sparks will test that later today
16:01:13 <jjmcd> Sparks, I think we need to test multiple langs ... I'm not sure Publican actually handles that
16:01:39 <Sparks> ?
16:01:58 <jjmcd> How does KDEhelp deal with languages? Is there some OMF equivalent?
16:02:37 * Sparks notes it is high noon and time for the board meeting
16:02:44 <jjmcd> Sparks - if you log on in Dutch, do you get the Dutch guide? I see no evidence in the spec to enable that
16:02:51 <jjmcd> shoot you're right
16:03:01 <jjmcd> looks like more research
16:03:18 <Sparks> jjmcd: Well, if you install the Dutch version of the package...
16:03:40 <jjmcd> What if you have multiple langs installed?
16:03:44 <Sparks> So in Anaconda when you say "I speak Dutch" it should know how to grab the proper language
16:04:14 <jjmcd> On the same system, you get the release notes in the language you logged on with, no matter what you installed with
16:04:36 <Sparks> Well, after you have everything setup you can select which document you open according to the language. They would all show up
16:04:42 <jjmcd> anaconda doesn't grab packages based on languafe
16:05:06 <Sparks> I don't know
16:05:29 <jjmcd> The packages have all the languages in the rpm
16:05:39 <Sparks> no
16:05:48 <Sparks> errr
16:05:48 <jjmcd> Well, Publican's dont!
16:05:49 <Sparks> maybe
16:06:06 <Sparks> You CAN but the SG is being packaged separately
16:06:18 <jjmcd> But for all the apps, the strings are in a string file
16:06:40 <jjmcd> kinda like our po's
16:06:40 <Sparks> These aren't apps
16:06:49 <Sparks> These are documents
16:06:54 <jjmcd> yeah, but anaconda don't know that
16:07:18 <Sparks> Can we tell it?
16:07:36 <jjmcd> I'm not enough of a spec file guru to tell
16:07:51 <Sparks> nor am I
16:08:05 <jjmcd> I would hate to have to wade through a menu of 42 langs for each doc
16:08:36 <Sparks> You shouldn't have to
16:08:45 <jjmcd> With yelp it is simple - everything is in the lang you logged on with
16:08:50 <jjmcd> just like the apps
16:09:26 <Sparks> Well, I think we might have to build a better egg...
16:09:28 <Sparks> hmm...
16:09:36 <Sparks> Maybe documentation groups by language?
16:10:04 <Sparks> The language you select could automagically tag the proper documentation language?
16:10:12 <jjmcd> OK, lets do some research and go to the board meeting. Perhaps you can make an F10 RPM for Kevin
16:10:24 <jjmcd> That's how yelp works
16:10:46 <jjmcd> ANd if your language isn't there you get C
16:10:49 <Sparks> F10 should be there
16:11:08 <Sparks> Okay... will do research
16:11:11 <Sparks> anything else?
16:11:39 <Sparks> No?
16:11:43 <jjmcd> no
16:11:49 <Sparks> Thanks Kevin_Kofler for joining us
16:11:55 <Kevin_Kofler> KDE KHelpCenter will use the system's language for its native docs.
16:12:12 <Kevin_Kofler> But of course if you have just plain HTML, there's no obvious way to get that effect. :-(
16:12:35 * jjmcd needs to study kdehelpcenter
16:12:36 <Kevin_Kofler> The desktops work hard on making their formats work well, but unfortunately, interoperability leaves much to be desired.
16:12:36 <Sparks> jjmcd: You know, RH might have already figured this out for us.
16:12:46 <jjmcd> Sparks, they should have
16:13:07 <Sparks> #action Sparks to investigate how RH handles various languages of Publican docs
16:13:57 <Sparks> Okay... Closing down the shop...
16:14:04 <Sparks> Thanks everyone for coming!
16:14:06 <Sparks> #endmeeting
===================================================================================================
#fedora-meeting: Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
===================================================================================================
Meeting started by Sparks at 00:01:15 UTC. The `full
logs`_ are available.
.. _`full logs`: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html
Meeting log
-----------
* **Roll Call** (Sparks-00:01:24_)
* **Last week's action items** (Sparks-00:06:37_)
* *ACTION*: Sparks to follow up with Pascal Calarco from News to make
sure we are including all packages necessary for Zikula for them. --
Second Alarm (Sparks-00:06:58_)
* *LINK*: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule
(Sparks-00:07:31_)
* *ACTION*: rudi to help sparks on changing the fedora-brand in
Publican for CC license -- Second Alarm (Sparks-00:08:02_)
* *LINK*: http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/
(rudi-00:08:24_)
* *ACTION*: Sparks to package the three GPL editors for Zikula --
Second Alarm (Sparks-00:09:14_)
* *ACTION*: Sparks to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source
Style Guide (Sparks-00:11:50_)
* *ACTION*: rudi to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source
Style Guide (Sparks-00:13:01_)
* *ACTION*: Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide --Second
alarm (Sparks-00:13:25_)
* *ACTION*: Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in
the wiki --second alarm (Sparks-00:15:08_)
* **Status on CMS (Zikula) <-- ke4qqq** (Sparks-00:16:19_)
* **Status on CC license rollout.\** (Sparks-00:24:37_)
* *LINK*: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule
(Sparks-00:24:46_)
* *ACTION*: ianweller to do something useful and write a draft
announcement (ianweller-00:26:25_)
* *LINK*: http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/
(quaid-00:28:32_)
* *AGREED*: Require the re-user to attribute to "The Fedora Project"
and link back (Sparks-00:45:32_)
* **Shared open-source style guide <--ke4qqq** (Sparks-00:46:05_)
* *LINK*:
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html
(Sparks-00:46:42_)
* **Outstanding BZ Tickets** (Sparks-00:47:19_)
* **Draft Documentation on the wiki** (Sparks-00:52:22_)
* *LINK*: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Draft_Documentation
(Sparks-00:52:39_)
* *LINK*: http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ is updated
(rudi-01:01:35_)
* **Guide needs?** (Sparks-01:05:05_)
* **New Guides** (Sparks-01:05:40_)
* **All other business** (Sparks-01:07:12_)
* *ACTION*: jjmcd to do recon on Zikula for useful docs
(Sparks-01:09:47_)
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.. _Sparks-00:16:19: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-72
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.. _Sparks-00:24:46: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-106
.. _ianweller-00:26:25: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-112
.. _quaid-00:28:32: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-119
.. _Sparks-00:45:32: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-194
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.. _Sparks-00:52:39: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-217
.. _rudi-01:01:35: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-247
.. _Sparks-01:05:05: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-258
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.. _Sparks-01:07:12: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-268
.. _Sparks-01:09:47: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-278
Meeting ended at 01:11:29 UTC.
Action Items
------------
* Sparks to follow up with Pascal Calarco from News to make sure we are
including all packages necessary for Zikula for them. -- Second Alarm
* rudi to help sparks on changing the fedora-brand in Publican for CC
license -- Second Alarm
* Sparks to package the three GPL editors for Zikula -- Second Alarm
* Sparks to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide
* rudi to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide
* Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide --Second alarm
* Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki
--second alarm
* ianweller to do something useful and write a draft announcement
* jjmcd to do recon on Zikula for useful docs
Action Items, by person
-----------------------
* ianweller
* ianweller to do something useful and write a draft announcement
* jjmcd
* jjmcd to do recon on Zikula for useful docs
* rudi
* rudi to help sparks on changing the fedora-brand in Publican for CC
license -- Second Alarm
* rudi to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide
* Sparks
* Sparks to follow up with Pascal Calarco from News to make sure we
are including all packages necessary for Zikula for them. -- Second
Alarm
* Sparks to package the three GPL editors for Zikula -- Second Alarm
* Sparks to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style
Guide
* Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide --Second alarm
* Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki
--second alarm
* **UNASSIGNED**
* (none)
People Present (lines said)
---------------------------
* Sparks (146)
* quaid (42)
* rudi (30)
* jjmcd (30)
* itbegins (21)
* ianweller (9)
* ricky (4)
* danielsmw (3)
* buggbot (1)
* radsy (1)
Generated by `MeetBot`_
.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
00:01:15 <Sparks> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
00:01:24 <Sparks> #topic Roll Call
00:01:26 * Sparks
00:01:28 * danielsmw is here.
00:01:33 * itbegins is here
00:01:38 <jjmcd> hier ben ik
00:01:47 * ianweller
00:01:59 * rudi is here
00:02:08 <ianweller> quaid: over here, not #fedora-meeting-1 ;)
00:03:11 <quaid> heh, like I can tell the difference in irssi
00:03:14 * quaid is here, too
00:03:58 <itbegins> ping me if you need me for a topic I can help with (i.e. the CMS)
00:04:24 * ianweller assigns itbegins to something non-CMS related ;)
00:04:34 <Sparks> itbegins: Oh we'll be talking CMS tonight
00:04:42 <itbegins> ianweller, I wouldn't do that if you want it to get done
00:04:48 <ianweller> hehe
00:05:38 <itbegins> Last week's work hours: 7.30-19.00, 7.30-18.30, 8.00-22.30, 8.00-22.30, 8.00-18.00
00:05:55 <itbegins> anyway, I'm polluting the meeting log...
00:06:00 <quaid> what? you took the weekend OFF?
00:06:09 * quaid *cough* slacker *cough* ;-D
00:06:25 <Sparks> Okay, let's get started...
00:06:28 <itbegins> quaid, no weekend working for the time being. I get that off to explore Manhattan
00:06:37 <Sparks> #topic Last week's action items
00:06:45 <Sparks> Sparks to follow up with Pascal Calarco from News to make sure we are including all packages necessary for Zikula for them.
00:06:58 <Sparks> #action Sparks to follow up with Pascal Calarco from News to make sure we are including all packages necessary for Zikula for them. -- Second Alarm
00:07:09 <Sparks> Yeah, I didn't get that done.
00:07:19 <Sparks> Sparks to write rollout plan for license change... 2nd alarm
00:07:22 <Sparks> done
00:07:31 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule
00:07:45 <Sparks> We'll come back to this one a little later.
00:07:54 <Sparks> rudi to help sparks on changing the fedora-brand in Publican for CC license
00:08:02 <Sparks> #action rudi to help sparks on changing the fedora-brand in Publican for CC license -- Second Alarm
00:08:17 <rudi> Well, I've got a sample in place here:
00:08:24 <rudi> http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/
00:08:24 <Sparks> rudi: We'll come back to this one but I think you are on the right track.
00:08:50 <Sparks> rudi: Cool. We'll hit that one in a few when we get to the license discussion.
00:08:52 <rudi> Now including attribution information after discussions on the list yesterday
00:08:57 <rudi> KK
00:09:07 <Sparks> Sparks to package the three GPL editors for Zikula
00:09:14 <Sparks> #action Sparks to package the three GPL editors for Zikula -- Second Alarm
00:09:24 <Sparks> Stickster to blog to see if we can get some PHP/JS folks to help with out with some Zikula modules.
00:09:40 <Sparks> stickster_afk isn't here but I think this was done.
00:09:46 <danielsmw> It was; I saw it.
00:09:51 <Sparks> Cool
00:09:53 <Sparks> Sparks to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide
00:09:54 <itbegins> I am sort of working on this as well
00:10:04 <itbegins> from the Zikula community side
00:10:08 <Sparks> itbegins: cool
00:10:25 <itbegins> I've been contacted by stickster_afk, I just have to write an article on the Zikula site. Likelihood of serious replies is limited, but i'll give it a go
00:10:42 <Sparks> Does anyone want to handle the Shared Open-Source Style Guide stuff? I just haven't had time to read up on it all and write about it.
00:11:50 <Sparks> #action Sparks to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide
00:11:58 <Sparks> Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide
00:12:04 <Sparks> Yeah, I failed on this one too...
00:12:05 * rudi will take it but is time poor right now
00:12:26 <Sparks> rudi: The Open-Source guide?
00:12:38 <Sparks> rudi: or the BZ component
00:12:44 <rudi> Sparks -- the OS guide
00:13:01 <Sparks> #action rudi to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide
00:13:04 <Sparks> rudi: Thank you
00:13:12 <Sparks> I'll get on the BZ component tonight.
00:13:25 <Sparks> #action Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide --Second alarm
00:13:26 <quaid> Sparks: I'd like to help move the shared style guide stuff along, yeah
00:13:40 <Sparks> Excellent
00:14:04 <Sparks> quaid: ke4qqq was going to work on it but he's gotten real busy lately for known reasons...
00:14:18 <Sparks> and I think the more people that get on that project the better
00:14:42 <quaid> yeah, coordinate on list, sounds fine
00:14:47 <Sparks> cool
00:14:54 <Sparks> Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki
00:15:01 <Sparks> This is inprogress.
00:15:08 <Sparks> #action Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki --second alarm
00:15:32 <Sparks> Okay, that's all from last week. Anyone have any other "old business"?
00:16:19 <Sparks> #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) <-- ke4qqq
00:16:32 <Sparks> Well, ke4qqq isn't here with us tonight...
00:16:57 <Sparks> but we had a meeting earlier today and got a few more items straight.
00:17:35 <Sparks> J5 joined us today and will be working on some of the javascript problems we are having
00:17:48 <Sparks> so hopefully all that will be squared away soon.
00:18:11 <Sparks> I got volunteered to rebuild the Zikula instance on PT15 so that will either happen later tonight or tomorrow.
00:18:24 <Sparks> Does anyone have anything questions or ideas?
00:19:07 <itbegins> Sparks, do you know what to install etc?
00:19:23 <Sparks> itbegins: I'll be installing all the packages we have in the repo.
00:19:39 <itbegins> Sparks, ok, then run install.php
00:19:45 <Sparks> Cool, thanks.
00:19:46 <itbegins> Sparks, you'll need a database ready
00:19:55 <Sparks> ya
00:20:00 <itbegins> in fact, it would be best if you didn't install from scratch and just pointed the new files to the old DB
00:20:12 <itbegins> due to the amount of setup work I did
00:20:17 <Sparks> I could do that, too.
00:20:19 <itbegins> though it can be replicated with a bit of work
00:20:32 <Sparks> I don't plan on wipeing that out.
00:20:32 <itbegins> if you want to do that, save /config/config.php from the old system
00:20:42 <itbegins> I assume it will be puppetized anyway
00:20:48 <Sparks> eventually, yes.
00:21:01 <Sparks> This is a preparation to puppetizing everything.
00:21:12 <itbegins> THere's also FASAuth (the FAS login module) and the theme
00:21:24 <itbegins> I sent the source to ke4qqq previously
00:21:34 <ricky> Is the FAS module in git somewhere or anything like that?
00:21:39 <Sparks> I don't think those have been packaged.
00:21:46 <Sparks> But we need to get those in the repo asap.
00:21:46 <ricky> We can get it in the fedora-infrastructure git repo if you'd like
00:21:56 <ricky> Ah, they'll be RPMs - that's fine too :-)
00:22:13 <Sparks> ricky: Yeah, everything will be RPMed for ease of use
00:22:25 <ricky> Cool, we like RPMs :-)
00:23:46 <Sparks> Okay, anything else?
00:24:05 <itbegins> That's it from my side
00:24:37 <Sparks> #topic Status on CC license rollout.\
00:24:46 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule
00:25:12 <quaid> a short bit ago I updated one of the tasks as completed
00:25:28 <Sparks> Okay, I created the above schedule. I'd appreciate feedback.
00:25:34 <itbegins> If there are no objects I will head off, haven't eaten yet...
00:25:41 <Sparks> rudi: Let's talk about your page you made.
00:25:49 * ianweller will work tomorrow on a draft announcement
00:26:25 <ianweller> #action ianweller to do something useful and write a draft announcement
00:26:28 <ianweller> ;)
00:26:36 <Sparks> ianweller: Thank you
00:26:54 <Sparks> rudi: So do we need to have an attribute statement?
00:27:26 <rudi> As I understand it, no we don't strictly need to.
00:27:38 <Sparks> Do we want an attribute statement?
00:27:48 <rudi> I'm in two minds about it.
00:28:32 <quaid> #link http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/
00:28:47 <rudi> It increases transparency about how to re-use the material
00:29:24 <rudi> But I can imagine that it would also discourage reuse
00:29:56 <Sparks> I don't like the idea of being extremely strict on saying how they have to do it.
00:30:23 <quaid> it "feels" restrictive to reusers?
00:31:04 <Sparks> "You must say exactly this in the type font and size and..."
00:31:27 <quaid> I'll note that if we are strict, it's a reason for not listing every single contributor to a doc - puts a big burden on remixers -- so then it makes more sense to credit "Fedora Docs" & "Fedora L10n"
00:31:28 <Sparks> I'd rather just say, you have to attribute it to us and let them figure out what works best for them.
00:31:54 * quaid thinks about it and thinks his argument goes the other way too
00:32:09 <rudi> Sparks -- CC doesn't allow you to be *that* strict
00:32:49 <Sparks> rudi: So what would be the point of an attribution statement?
00:33:17 <rudi> Like I said, to alert people about what their obligations actually are
00:33:31 <rudi> Transparently
00:34:02 <Sparks> So spell out what the license is telling them to do
00:34:14 <rudi> Pretty much
00:34:34 <Sparks> Okay, I'm good with that.
00:34:43 <Sparks> Anyone else have an opinion?
00:35:00 <rudi> There are only two specific extra burdens that the licence allows: Specify a specific name to credit, and specify that you must link back.
00:35:15 <rudi> You'll notice that I suggest we invoke the second of those
00:35:33 <quaid> ah, that avoids the long list of names?
00:35:41 <rudi> No.
00:35:48 <rudi> That's the first
00:36:06 <rudi> Which we could also choose
00:36:15 <quaid> oic, sorry, misparsed
00:36:18 <Sparks> Okay
00:36:21 <quaid> 'specific name', gotcha
00:36:40 <Sparks> So +1 for only linking back.
00:36:52 <quaid> just for ye ole debil's advocate sake
00:37:04 <quaid> why not specify "Fedora Docs Team" and "Fedora L10n Team"
00:37:05 <rudi> Yeah; so instead of crediting the actual creators of the doc, we could specify that the re-user or remixer just credits "The Fedora Documentation Project"
00:37:08 <quaid> and avoid tracking a list of names?
00:37:17 * ianweller has to eat, bbl
00:37:17 <quaid> or "The Fedora Project"
00:37:39 <rudi> indeed
00:37:49 <jjmcd> That list of names is important to some
00:37:53 * Sparks likes "The Fedora Project"
00:38:16 <Sparks> jjmcd: Yeah, which is found on the documents themselves... but that list can be pretty long.
00:38:32 <rudi> jjmcd -- yes, which is why I shied away from suggesting that option
00:38:36 <quaid> I don't think we should burden others with our long list of names, should we continue to choose to display it.
00:38:44 <jjmcd> Yeah it can, so we really are just talking about what it says on some repuser's doc?
00:38:59 <jjmcd> re-user grrrr
00:39:06 <rudi> jjmcd -- yes
00:39:40 <jjmcd> Ahh ... I like Fedora Project, but we get some good press for our docs, I wonder whether Fedora Docs Project doesn't leverage that
00:39:56 <quaid> jjmcd: well, we ARE docs for the FP
00:40:00 <rudi> jjmcd -- don't forget L10N
00:40:05 <quaid> exactly
00:40:10 <quaid> and Design
00:40:16 <quaid> and the Publican team for the cool look
00:40:17 <quaid> and etc.
00:40:56 <quaid> One of the problems I have with all this self-branding (My Name, My SubProject's Name) is that it distracts and fractions from the greater;
00:41:10 <quaid> even if one of my purposes in Fedora is to build my name
00:41:25 <quaid> everyone else has to rely upon the RPM loginfo
00:41:27 <Sparks> WE ARE FEDORA
00:41:30 <quaid> no one gets to call their package
00:41:35 <quaid> quaid-zikula-foo.rpm
00:41:47 <Sparks> no?
00:41:57 <quaid> how about this
00:41:58 <Sparks> Is that against the package naming rules?
00:42:01 <quaid> do rpm -qi $anypackage
00:42:06 <quaid> do you see the packagers name in there?
00:42:19 * radsy wanders off... services guide has been sent to lists fo review..
00:42:23 <quaid> why would Docs get to have a big splash with our name just because we get to control the printing press?
00:42:35 <quaid> shouldn't we put every packager's name in there that contributed to a package that we document?
00:43:00 * quaid quotes his daughter's, "It's not Fu-yair!"
00:43:21 <quaid> anyway, sorry, different debate
00:43:28 <quaid> but not a problem we should push on reusers
00:43:38 <quaid> so +1 to The Fedora Project from me
00:43:46 * quaid steps down carefully from his soap box
00:43:49 * Sparks calls for a vote
00:44:17 <Sparks> Require the re-user to attribute to "The Fedora Project" and link back
00:44:19 <Sparks> +1
00:44:29 <rudi> +1
00:44:40 <jjmcd> +1
00:44:40 <danielsmw> +1
00:44:52 <quaid> +1
00:45:32 <Sparks> #agreed Require the re-user to attribute to "The Fedora Project" and link back
00:45:40 <Sparks> Okay, anything else on the license?
00:46:05 <Sparks> #topic Shared open-source style guide <--ke4qqq
00:46:11 <rudi> Give me a few minutes and I'll have that revision in place; then, if we're happy with it, I'll run it past legal
00:46:23 <Sparks> Okay... quaid and rudi will be helping ke4qqq with this.
00:46:27 <Sparks> Anything else?
00:46:30 <Sparks> rudi: Thanks
00:46:42 <Sparks> #link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html
00:47:12 * Sparks moves on
00:47:19 <Sparks> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets
00:47:42 <Sparks> Okay, I know people were working their tickets since last Wednesday. Good job.
00:48:05 <Sparks> I spent about a half hour "gardening" the tickets this afternoon.
00:48:32 <Sparks> If you have tickets assigned to you please make sure you work these issues...
00:48:44 <Sparks> especially if they are from a user.
00:49:52 <Sparks> If the ticket takes a while to fix I'd like everyone to make note at least monthly to show you are still working the problem.
00:50:30 * Sparks notes some people got knocked off there.
00:50:44 <Sparks> Does anyone have any questions about the BZ tickets
00:50:46 <Sparks> ?
00:51:10 <quaid> anyone want mine?
00:51:25 <Sparks> quaid: No, I think you need yours. I don't think you have enough to do.
00:51:39 <quaid> good for ya!
00:51:43 <Sparks> :)
00:52:22 <Sparks> #topic Draft Documentation on the wiki
00:52:39 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Draft_Documentation
00:52:56 <jjmcd> wheeeeee
00:53:03 <Sparks> And jjmcd's back!
00:53:18 <Sparks> jjmcd: You'll have to read the log to see what we assigned to you while you were out.
00:53:31 <Sparks> Okay... Draft Documentation
00:53:34 <jjmcd> did u get "504825, 228728 - should talk about tomorrow" before the netsplit?
00:53:46 <Sparks> no
00:54:02 <Sparks> after the meeting?
00:54:14 <jjmcd> tomorrow's 11AM
00:54:42 <Sparks> No, can we talk about them after tonight meeting?
00:54:58 <Sparks> or do we need to talk about them now?
00:55:36 <jjmcd> Well, one is probably a longer conversation, not sure I'm ready with all the questions, the other could drag on too
00:56:08 <jjmcd> The second is are we going to ressurect the guide -- accessibility
00:56:15 <Sparks> I thought 504825 would be fairly straight forward
00:56:19 <jjmcd> and if so, in what form/format
00:56:46 <jjmcd> Well, we never really did get to a complete answer
00:57:01 <Sparks> jjmcd: What the heck... You are not authorized to access bug #228728.
00:57:02 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=228728 is not accessible.
00:57:20 * Sparks dislikes buggbot.
00:57:50 * ianweller is confused at 228728.
00:57:56 <jjmcd> we said we would produce 3 formats, but we still never asked the question what does the rpm look like, how will it be presented installed, do we drop gnome or include kde, etc etc
00:58:11 <jjmcd> let me see if i fat-fingered it
00:59:21 <jjmcd> 228729 sri
00:59:49 * Sparks is now curious what 228728 is.
01:00:14 <Sparks> jjmcd: Dang... okay, I remember now
01:00:16 <jjmcd> prolly some super secret rhel thingie
01:00:23 <Sparks> prolly
01:00:55 <Sparks> jjmcd: Okay, so you want to wait until tomorrow's meeting for this?
01:01:24 <jjmcd> Yeah, I think it is a little related to the other, so lets talk about what shows on the iso, and ignore the docs.fp.o
01:01:33 <jjmcd> which we have covered sort of
01:01:35 <rudi> http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ is updated
01:01:54 <jjmcd> does it work in internet exploder?
01:02:32 <jjmcd> I have no argument with that language
01:02:39 <Sparks> Don't know... I don't have IE anywhere.
01:02:45 <rudi> Probably not; but that's got nothing to do with the license
01:03:01 <jjmcd> yeah, I know. Just pokin'
01:03:06 <rudi> :)
01:04:26 <Sparks> Okay
01:04:29 <Sparks> Draft Documentation
01:04:34 <Sparks> it's there...
01:04:49 <Sparks> Please look at it every so often and see if you can help something along.
01:05:05 <Sparks> #topic Guide needs?
01:05:15 <Sparks> Does anyone need anything for their Guide?
01:05:40 <Sparks> #topic New Guides
01:05:47 <Sparks> Anyone have any new guide ideas?
01:06:08 <jjmcd> yeah, but not until after F12
01:06:15 <Sparks> jjmcd: What you got?
01:06:34 <jjmcd> A guide to Fedora for radio amateurs
01:06:41 <Sparks> jjmcd: Count me in
01:06:45 <jjmcd> ;-)
01:06:59 <Sparks> Anyone else?
01:07:12 <Sparks> #topic All other business
01:07:18 <Sparks> Does anyone have anything else?
01:07:33 * Sparks notes stickster arriving right at the end of the meeting
01:07:55 <jjmcd> well, these manager types
01:08:04 <Sparks> ya.. tell me about it
01:08:04 <jjmcd> you know how THEY are
01:08:23 <Sparks> ANYONE? ANYTHING?
01:08:39 <jjmcd> is there any useful docs for zikula?
01:08:56 <Sparks> I don't know
01:09:35 <jjmcd> Maybe I'll just rely on infra and not stress over it
01:09:47 <Sparks> #action jjmcd to do recon on Zikula for useful docs
01:10:07 <jjmcd> zikula.org has lots, but nothing useful
01:10:41 <Sparks> Anything else?
01:11:04 <Sparks> 5
01:11:06 <Sparks> 4
01:11:09 <Sparks> 3
01:11:11 <Sparks> 2
01:11:13 <Sparks> 1
01:11:26 <Sparks> Thanks everyone for coming!
01:11:29 <Sparks> #endmeeting
Hi,
Having added many new chapters/services, the Fedora SELinux
managing confined services guide is very close to reaching publication.
I would greatly appreciate any and all comments or corrections:
http://sradvan.fedorapeople.org/SELinux_Managing_Confined_Services/en-US/
Cheers,
--
Scott Radvan
Content Author, Platform (Installation and Deployment)
Red Hat Asia Pacific (Brisbane) http://www.apac.redhat.com
I've created a timeline[1] of the events that need to happen to get
this license changeover complete. I'd like to officially kick it off
on Friday. Please look over it and provide input/changes as
necessary.
[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule
Thanks,
Eric
Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional
comments should be made in the comments box of this bug.
Summary: cobbler kssendmac and breed suse
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=479470
Summary: cobbler kssendmac and breed suse
Product: Fedora Hosted Projects
Version: unspecified
Platform: All
OS/Version: Linux
Status: NEW
Severity: low
Priority: low
Component: Deployment_Guide
AssignedTo: mhideo(a)redhat.com
ReportedBy: quenzler(a)us.ibm.com
QAContact: rlerch(a)redhat.com
CC: fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com
Classification: Fedora
Target Release: ---
Description of problem:
breed = suse
/boot/grub/menu.lst contains kssendmac
Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable):
cobbler-1.2.9-1.fc9.noarch
How reproducible:
Install a SuSE client
Actual results:
kssendmac exists as a boot parameter on a SuSE client
Expected results:
No kssendmac boot parameter
Additional info:
Find a way to avoid adding kssendmac to the kernel_options string if it's not
applicable to the breed.
Hack (since I'm only installing SuSE clients):
# diff utils.py utils.py.ori
478,479c478,479
< # if len(kernel_txt) < 244:
< # results["kernel_options"]["kssendmac"] = None
---
> if len(kernel_txt) < 244:
> results["kernel_options"]["kssendmac"] = None
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Thanks,
Eric
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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466676
Ricky Zhou <rzhou(a)redhat.com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Status|NEW |CLOSED
CC| |rzhou(a)redhat.com
Resolution| |WONTFIX
--- Comment #1 from Ricky Zhou <rzhou(a)redhat.com> 2009-08-05 12:13:21 EDT ---
Hi, sorry this bug got lost - it was reported in the wrong component, which
doesn't get much attention anymore. Fedora 8 is no longer supported now, but
if this problem still exists in F10 or F11, can you please submit a bug under
the Fedora product and paraview component? Thanks.
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