00:02:29 <Sparks> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda:
00:02:29 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Sep 17 00:02:29 2009 UTC. The
chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at
00:02:29 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea
00:02:39 <Sparks> #topic Roll Call
00:02:42 * Sparks
00:02:54 * stickster
00:02:56 * jjmcd is here
00:03:03 * joat .
00:03:08 * rudi is here
00:03:48 <stickster> Sparks: Should the schedule tasks be on the agenda too?
00:04:05 * danielsmw
00:04:22 <Sparks> stickster: Probably
00:04:30 <Sparks> We'll shoe horn it in
00:04:44 <stickster> I'd recommend that be there on a regular basis,
just to avoid any sudden screechy left-hand turns
00:04:51 <Sparks> Yeah
00:04:55 <stickster> Even if the kids in the back think it's fun
00:05:08 <jjmcd> Trubble is, we're already in that state
00:05:23 <Sparks> Okay, let's get going!
00:05:25 * Tsagadai is here but late :)
00:05:32 <Sparks> #topic Last week's action items
00:05:50 <Sparks> quaid to follow up with Mizmo on the Zikula theme
00:05:55 <Sparks> quaid: You here tonight?
00:06:14 <stickster> Sparks: I can fill in here
00:06:21 <Sparks> stickster: go!
00:06:25 <stickster> mizmo worked for many hours the other night on Zikula theme
00:06:51 <stickster> But there is some very significant broken stuff
in Zikula itself that made the work slow, frustrating, and ultimately
00:07:21 <stickster> mizmo has to punt for now because the web design
is higher priority and there's too much Zikula architecture stuff to
figure out for her to progress as fast as she's used to doing with
00:07:47 <stickster> eof
00:08:02 * jjmcd thinks that after we come up for air we need to work on zik dox
00:08:34 <Sparks> stickster: So do we need to find someone else to
work on the skins?
00:08:47 <stickster> Sparks: mchua is going to do that
00:09:06 <Sparks> Okay... Good to know.
00:09:11 <Sparks> jjmcd: zik dox?
00:09:28 * stickster is a little disappointed at Zikula progress --
not because people didn't put forth superhuman effort, because they
00:09:28 <jjmcd> My exploration of zikula was hampered by horrible dox
00:09:34 <jjmcd> lots of them, all useless
00:09:39 <stickster> More because there's so many broken pieces when
you dig inside.
00:09:47 <Sparks> jjmcd: Yeah
00:09:53 <Sparks> stickster: I agree
00:10:14 <Sparks> There were a lot of people that put a lot of work
into it and found it "not as advertised"
00:10:16 <stickster> It makes me want to get further information on
(1) how we decided on it, and (2) re-evaluate that process so that we
can learn from the experience
00:10:20 <stickster> But moreover
00:10:25 <stickster> I think having itbegins around has been helpful
00:10:33 * mchua here
00:10:35 <stickster> And I want to make sure that what we're learning
is being fed back to the Zikula community for action
00:10:36 * mchua reads backlog
00:10:57 <stickster> mchua: No biggie, just letting Sparks know that
you are going to be on the lookout for more theming help for Zikula
00:11:05 <jjmcd> stickster, that's why I say, once we get capacity
free, we ought to help them out, too
00:11:27 <stickster> jjmcd: A significant portion of the problem may
be issues we can't solve, though -- like architectural issues,
according to mizmo
00:11:35 <jjmcd> since they helped us
00:11:45 <Sparks> stickster: Yeah, we've received a lot of support...
but we had to re-engineer so much...
00:11:46 <stickster> I have no idea myself, not sure I'd know from
looking at it anyway :-)
00:11:47 <mchua> itbegins and mizmo have cleared their plates
completely of FI items, so itbegins can help more people do FI stuff
instead of doing tons of it himself
00:11:58 <jjmcd> Oh yeah, we need to give them guidance, but without
simon, would you have gotten off the ground?
00:12:12 <stickster> Not sure.
00:12:24 <stickster> Anyway, don't let me derail your agenda Sparks, I
think we answered the status bit
00:12:53 <mchua> All the remaining FI work is listed in
in a manner that is pick-uppable by passers-by. We're trying to doc
everything as we go along so future zikula deployments will be
00:13:05 <mchua> but yeah, there have been a lot of hacks as we
approach the endgame.
00:13:20 <stickster> mchua: Not to mention the hacking we did in the
startgame too :-)
00:13:24 <mchua> ...that too, yeah.
00:13:33 <Sparks> Okay... we'll get more into Zikula in a bit..
00:13:35 <Sparks> moving on
00:13:38 <Sparks> quaid to follow up with Richard about the use of the
CC logo on the wiki.
00:14:00 <Sparks> Anyone know about the outcome of this? I feel we
have revisited this more times than not.
00:14:33 <rudi> Haven't heard anything new about it; don't know if
quaid has broached the subject with Richard
00:14:45 <rudi> So, AFAIK, Richard's previous advice stands
00:15:24 <Sparks> #action quaid to follow up with Richard about the
use of the CC logo on the wiki.
00:15:34 <Sparks> danielsmw to package an editor for Scribite
00:15:49 <Sparks> This didn't happen. Has anyone stepped up to do this?
00:16:13 <danielsmw> Sparks: Here's my update.
00:16:31 <danielsmw> I looked at using TinyMCE and worked at that spec
file for a bit
00:16:56 <danielsmw> I later consulted with abadger1999 and figured
out that TinyMCE would be basically impossible to package without 4 or
5 other packages that are questionably packagable
00:17:05 <Sparks> oh, danielsmw IS here! Welcome!
00:17:11 <danielsmw> Yes, I'm here. :)
00:17:20 * stickster shouts Howdy to danielsmw
00:17:31 <Sparks> danielsmw: So scratch TinyMCE
00:17:34 <danielsmw> Anyway, we've picked up Xinha as our new option,
as long as everyone's okay with that.
00:17:39 <danielsmw> yes, scratch TinyMCE.
00:17:50 <danielsmw> Xinha looks like it has compliant licenses
00:17:53 <danielsmw> and is packagable.
00:17:57 <Sparks> danielsmw: I'm good with whatever works!
00:18:04 <danielsmw> i'm almost done with the spec file, it's just
complicated because of the lack of js guidelines.
00:18:19 <danielsmw> but abadger1999 is helping with that and
hopefully i'll have it up for review before next wednesday.
00:18:22 * ianweller is here now
00:18:31 <Sparks> abadger1999++
00:18:34 <danielsmw> Indeed
00:18:37 <Sparks> danielsmw++
00:18:41 <Sparks> Excellent!
00:18:52 <Sparks> Okay... moving on...
00:18:54 <Sparks> ianweller to bring to the list the text for the CC
license for the wiki so it can be approved
00:18:58 <Sparks> ianweller: Just in time!
00:19:41 <Sparks> ianweller: I think you did this already... didn't you?
00:20:13 <onekopaka> which CC license?
00:20:24 <Sparks> CC-BY-SA
00:20:30 <onekopaka> mmkay.
00:20:49 <Sparks> ianweller was here....
00:20:57 <Sparks> We'll come back to him later...
00:21:01 <ianweller> hi
00:21:04 <onekopaka> Sparks: he disappears when he wants to.
00:21:05 <ianweller> my internet is suck tonight
00:21:06 <Sparks> ianweller: hi
00:21:09 <ianweller> aaaagain
00:21:13 <stickster> :-D
00:21:26 <ianweller> Sparks: all it needs to say is the message that
"blah blah blah is licensed under blah blah blah" at the bottom of the
page, just like every CC site
00:21:31 <ianweller> Sparks: unless you're looking for something different
00:22:58 <ianweller> i'm not sure if it's a good thing that my ISP's
phone number is a busy signal right now ^_^
00:23:01 <ianweller> Sparks: is that good?
00:23:13 <Sparks> ianweller: Works for me...
00:23:29 <ianweller> ok
00:23:42 <Sparks> Any other old business?
00:24:01 <rudi> Publican update?
00:24:15 <Sparks> #topic Publican Update
00:24:18 <Sparks> rudi: Go for it!
00:24:48 * quaid is back
00:24:54 <rudi> radsy, ryanlerch, and I are still waiting for
sponsorship so that we can get Publican dependencies into Fedora
00:25:15 <rudi> Once that's done, we can move ahead with both 1.0 and
with the updated Fedora brand package.
00:25:16 <stickster> ianweller: I think as the wiki czar, you're
empowered to make the change, fwiw
00:25:32 <rudi> So, any trusted packagers out there, we need you :)
00:25:43 <stickster> ianweller: As long as we've notified people the
change is coming, why, etc.
00:26:11 <rudi> * perl-Locale-Maketext-Gettext-1.27-1.fc11.noarch.rpm
00:26:12 <buggbot> Bug 521569: medium, medium, ---, nobody, NEW,
Review Request: perl-Locale-Maketext-Gettext - Joins the gettext and
00:26:13 <rudi> * perl-Makefile-DOM-0.004-1.fc11.noarch.rpm â€”
00:26:14 <buggbot> Bug 521724: medium, medium, ---, nobody, NEW,
Review Request: perl-Makefile-DOM - Simple DOM parser for Makefiles
00:26:15 <rudi> * perl-Makefile-Parser-0.211-1.fc11.noarch.rpm â€”
00:26:15 <buggbot> Bug 521723: medium, medium, ---, nobody, NEW,
Review Request: perl-Makefile-Parser - Simple parser for Makefiles
00:26:18 <Sparks> rudi: Okay. Do we need anyone to give a nudge to someone?
00:26:52 <rudi> Well, unless we have any trusted packagers in the docs
group, I'm open to suggestions...
00:27:13 <rudi> This is the blocker right now for Publican
00:27:39 <rudi> ianweller -- are you a trusted packager?
00:28:18 <ianweller> rudi: i guess
00:28:21 <Sparks> rudi: I don't think we have any trusted packagers in
Docs. Heck, until a few months ago we didn't have packagers in Docs.
00:28:29 <Sparks> ianweller: Are you?
00:28:36 <ianweller> they trust me enough to sponsor people
00:28:47 <rudi> Great! That's what we need :)
00:28:54 * ianweller trusts himself less than the community trusts him ;)
00:28:59 <rudi> lolz
00:29:06 <rudi> IMHO, that's always a good sign
00:30:22 <rudi> Do you think you'll have the time to look at those in
the near future>?
00:30:34 <rudi> (and, of course, would you want to?)
00:31:42 <Sparks> rudi: Can you get with ianweller after the meeting, maybe?
00:31:49 <rudi> NP
00:32:13 <Sparks> rudi: So basically after that you can support the
fedora brand in Publican
00:32:29 <rudi> Yep
00:32:36 <Sparks> Cool
00:32:41 <Sparks> Okay, moving on...
00:32:55 <Sparks> #topic Release notes format changes
00:33:12 <Sparks> #idea Put All Changes in a separate doc?
00:33:20 <Sparks> #idea Drop beats with few changes
00:33:21 <jjmcd> Pretty much did them all except the separate doc ...
moved them to the end
00:33:28 <Sparks> #idea Rearrange/add beats
00:33:37 <jjmcd> I think we are ready to make pots. Still a couple of
beats to touch up, but we should be at the 90% point.
00:33:39 <Sparks> jjmcd: Cool...
00:33:52 <jjmcd> Many many thanks to rudi and Zach
00:33:59 <Sparks> So the RNs are on schedule?
00:34:03 <jjmcd> L10N will love the 8000+ strings, but I think we'll
hide that from them.
00:34:07 <rudi> jjmcd -- so you're ready to pull the trigger now? :)
00:34:09 <jjmcd> Sparks, no, not at all
00:34:16 <jjmcd> rudi yeah
00:34:23 <Sparks> jjmcd: No?
00:34:24 <jjmcd> Most recent build at
00:34:41 <jjmcd> Sparks, even after 900 cycles with john
00:34:45 <rudi> Great -- I'll doctor up a POT file after the meeting :)
00:34:54 <jjmcd> the wiki freeze came AFTER the pots in the schedule
00:35:09 <jjmcd> We should have had pots last week
00:35:27 <jjmcd> With luck, tomorrow. And yeah, htanks much rudi. I
would appreciate that
00:35:52 <Sparks> Okay. Anything I can do to help? Do you need more resources?
00:36:14 <jjmcd> Well, we should now be in good shape
00:36:25 <Sparks> Okay
00:36:28 <Sparks> Anything else?
00:36:29 <jjmcd> THere are a couple of lame beats, but most of the
changes were in virt
00:36:39 <jjmcd> Also, I got surprised with a huge FEL document
00:36:50 <jjmcd> I trimmed it way down, but it is still too large
00:37:03 <jjmcd> Chitlesh has been working his butt off
00:37:23 <jjmcd> But it is now under control
00:37:36 <Sparks> cool
00:37:40 <Sparks> anything/one else?
00:37:50 <jjmcd> thats it from me
00:37:55 <Sparks> moving on...
00:37:57 <Sparks> #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) <-- ke4qqq
00:38:05 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status
00:38:08 <stickster> jjmcd: rudi: Thanks for your hard work
00:38:40 <Sparks> So Zikula has stalled on the runway... Are we now
pushing this for f13 for sure?
00:39:10 <quaid> I think we were clearly not making it for F12, but
00:39:19 <Sparks> Okay
00:39:21 <quaid> we'll be able to ride 80%+ on the Fedora Insight work going on
00:39:28 <stickster> Assuming that proceeds well
00:39:31 <quaid> skin, integration, etc.
00:39:34 <Sparks> WORKSFORME
00:39:51 <quaid> stickster: well, that would only adjust my 80% down
the scale some amount
00:39:54 <quaid> I hope :)
00:40:04 <Sparks> I guess the question now is... do we want to try to
work on the existing docs.fp.o to clean it up for F12?
00:40:22 * mchua wonders if Docs is interested in a zikula sprint for
FUDCon as well
00:40:39 <Sparks> mchua: Which FUDCon?
00:40:42 <mchua> f12
00:41:05 <jjmcd> or perhaps a docs.fp.o cleanup
00:41:08 <mchua> as a "Marketing got FI up, let's make our experience
useful for Docs" thing infra-wise
00:41:40 <mchua> and a "Docs is good at writing/workflows, Marketing
can learn from Docs in getting an FI zikula workflow tweaked" thing as
00:42:00 <Sparks> mchua: I'm good with that
00:42:46 <mchua> Ok. Who should I be coordinating with on that to see
if it's a possibility then? Sparks, is that you?
00:42:56 <Sparks> mchua: Sure.
00:43:04 <mchua> cool. action item me. ;)
00:43:08 <Sparks> mchua: Are we talking about the FUDCon in Toronto?
00:43:12 <mchua> yup.
00:43:36 <jjmcd> I think it's too cold for these southern boys
00:43:52 <Sparks> #action mchua to work with Sparks on an FAD for
Zikula during FUDCon Toronto
00:43:58 <Sparks> jjmcd: It is concerning
00:45:10 <Sparks> Okay... anythign else?
00:45:24 <Sparks> #topic Status on CC license rollout.
00:45:32 <Sparks> #link
00:46:04 <Sparks> I think we are waiting for the last minute request
for quaid to talk to Richard about the CC logo on the wiki
00:46:21 <Sparks> otherwise our next step is to announce internally of
00:46:54 <quaid> well ...
00:47:04 <quaid> spot: ping
00:47:14 <spot> quaid: yes?
00:47:29 <quaid> have you heard anything about discussions with Creative Commons
00:47:47 <quaid> about using their logo on our websites?
00:47:55 <spot> i have not... should i have?
00:48:09 <quaid> rfontana said he was going to pursue something with
00:48:22 <spot> send him an email and cc me
00:48:24 <quaid> ok, not sure if you were in that loop or not, I reckon not
00:48:26 <spot> and i will stay on him
00:48:37 <quaid> yeah, he said on list that he was going to look in to
it, and I didn't want overly bug him :)
00:48:40 <quaid> but I'll do that now
00:48:47 <quaid> Sparks: k, we've reached
00:48:48 <spot> he tends to be busy
00:48:55 <quaid> the time when i said I'd bug him if we hadn't gotten word
00:48:57 <quaid> so I'll do that :)
00:48:57 <spot> i have regular meetings with him to make sure stuff
doesn't get lost
00:49:13 <rudi> For us to be happy to use the logo, CC would have to
change *their* licensing...
00:49:16 <stickster> He's a good mug and won't mind being bugged
00:49:35 <rudi> I suspect that even if they agree in principle, it
would take time for them to implement that change
00:49:37 <quaid> rudi: well, or give us a specific exception that
satisfied us, but ...
00:49:43 <quaid> that might have the same effect :)
00:49:58 <quaid> I think we should, as rudi is perhaps hinting
00:50:00 <Sparks> rudi: They wouldn't have to change their license.
We could only use it on the wiki.
00:50:03 <quaid> proceed as if we don't get the logos to use
00:50:19 <rudi> Sparks -- ie, change their license
00:50:39 <Sparks> rudi: Well... yes, they'd have to change for us to
use it on our docs
00:50:55 <rudi> quaid -- that is indeed what I'm hinting :)
00:51:09 <Sparks> ya
00:51:26 <Sparks> Well, it really wouldn't be that big of a deal to go
back and put the logo in on the wiki...
00:51:40 <rudi> Exactly
00:51:46 <Sparks> So... all in favor of proceeding with just the text
of the CC-BY-SA
00:51:49 <Sparks> +1
00:51:54 <rudi> +1
00:52:07 <quaid> +1
00:52:12 <mchua> +1
00:52:12 <stickster> +1 fwiw
00:52:30 <Tsagadai> +1
00:52:31 <jjmcd> abstain
00:52:41 <Sparks> jjmcd: Is there a problem or???
00:52:55 <jjmcd> Nope, I see no prob either way
00:53:10 <Sparks> #agreed Proceed with CC licensing using only the text
00:53:20 <Sparks> quaid: Will you still follow up on the logo issue?
00:54:34 <Sparks> #action quaid to follow up on the CC logo issues
00:54:38 <Sparks> moving on!
00:54:47 <Sparks> #topic Shared open-source style guide
00:54:56 <Sparks> #link
00:55:03 <Sparks> Does anyone have an update on this?
00:55:27 <rudi> No progess since last week
00:55:33 <Sparks> rudi: Okay
00:55:41 <Tsagadai> not really an update as such but that may come up
when I bring in a few things in a couple of weeks :)
00:55:41 <Sparks> rudi: Anything to talk about on this topic?
00:55:56 <Sparks> Tsagadai: Okay
00:56:13 <Tsagadai> there are 3 docs I have which I've scheduled to
upstream as soon as I get a chance
00:56:36 <rudi> Sparks -- I'm not sure what the last you heard was; I
have a greenlight from legal to take most of our internal material
00:56:47 <Sparks> rudi: I didn't know! Excellent
00:56:54 <Sparks> rudi: Just keep us updated.
00:57:17 <rudi> So it now rests on time arising in my schedule,
because legal will need to greenlight the final subset I pull out to
00:57:43 <Sparks> Okay... cool deal
00:57:46 <Sparks> anything else?
00:57:47 <rudi> Tsagadai -- 3 docs for the upstream Style Guide?
00:58:27 * Sparks notes two minutes left
00:58:33 <Tsagadai> nope, Virt Guide, Git guide, libvirt API guide :)
00:58:43 <rudi> Ah OK -- you're ahead of us :)
00:58:56 <Sparks> okay, pressing on
00:58:58 <Sparks> #topic Guide needs?
00:59:05 <Sparks> Anyone have any guides that are in need?
00:59:18 * stickster has to bail for now
00:59:37 <Sparks> #topic New Guides
00:59:42 <Sparks> Any new guides?
01:00:15 <Sparks> #topic All other business
01:00:20 <rudi> Sparks -- I might *very maybe* have an early version
of a Power Management guide
01:00:25 <Sparks> Okay, any other business anyone would like to talk about?
01:00:27 <rudi> But that's more likely to make F13
01:00:45 <Sparks> rudi: Ooooo sounds cool
01:01:09 <Sparks> Okay, anyone else?
01:01:18 <Sparks> 5
01:01:22 <Sparks> 4
01:01:24 <Sparks> 3
01:01:26 <perspectival> I've just sent an update concerning the
Deployment Guide to the fedora-docs-list
01:01:27 <Sparks> 2
01:01:37 <Sparks> perspectival: +1
01:01:39 <perspectival> I try to come in at the last minute
01:01:43 <Sparks> :)
01:01:45 <Sparks> 1
01:01:47 <Sparks> Anyone else?
01:01:55 <Sparks> Thanks everyone for coming!
01:01:58 <Sparks> #endmeeting
Hello everyone in the Docs Team,
I know it's kind of late for translating F11 Installation Guide, but I
thought what I have to communicate here might be important, especially
if it can help prevent the same thing happening with F12 Installation
Namely, the order of strings in .pot files (translation templates)
doesn't match the one in the source text. And translating strings that
are out of order - and, thus, out of context, is slow, painful and/or
prone to mistakes.
Can you please fix this?
Polish L10n Team
P.S. Should I file a bug?
This thread from the fedora-trans-list is of interest to Docs people
working on the release notes.
As a reminder, any people in Docs responsible for major works like the
Release Notes, Installation Guide or QSG, etc., should be subscribed
to the fedora-trans-list as well, since frequently questions are
raised there about process or specific strings.
Docs people responsible for that content should be communicating
schedule details, expectations, and so forth, regularly to the
Translation teams through the fedora-trans-list. That will help all
the teams stay connected and working together with less confusion and
----- Forwarded message from Tomek Chrzczonowicz -----
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:27:54 +0200
From: Tomek Chrzczonowicz
To: Fedora Translation Project List
Subject: Re: Why can't submit translations for F12 Release Notes?
Does anyone know what's going on with those F12 Release Notes?
The translation deadline is tomorrow...?
----- End forwarded message -----
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REMINDER: There will be a Fedora Docs meeting today at 0001 UTC. The
agenda can be found at:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings. If you have any
additions to the agenda please make them prior to 2330 UTC.
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Thanks Paul, and in the spirit of FOSS the jolliness is free of charge. ;-)
And 73s Eric. I've seen some hamming apps in yum and elsewhere, and
that's good to see.
I have applied to join the Docs Project contributor group (docs) in the
Fedora Accounts System, and received a welcome message in reply.
Also, I've added the #fedora-docs channel to my IRC client on my Fedora
11 x86_64 box. I will be away from the house tomorrow evening, but will
make every effort to join the Wednesday online meeting. It is now on my
calendar as a repeat event.
Whether or not I'm seasoned, it appears that 'tis the season for
starting on Docs.
Mark Caldwell Walker
GnuPG public key is available at
Home page at http://www.marwalk.com/
Blog at http://marwalk.wordpress.com/
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00:03:02 <jjmcd> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda:
00:03:02 <zodbot_> Meeting started Thu Sep 10 00:03:02 2009 UTC. The chair
is jjmcd. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
00:03:02 <zodbot_> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link
00:03:11 <jjmcd> two minutes - he's not gonna show
00:03:23 <jjmcd> #topic Roll Call
00:03:28 * danielsmw
00:03:29 * jjmcd is here
00:03:31 * bcotton is here
00:03:34 * rudi is here
00:03:57 * jjmcd needs more windows to do this
00:04:07 <jjmcd> #topic Last week's action items
00:04:29 <jjmcd> danielsmw to package an editor for Scribite - where are
00:04:46 <danielsmw> jjmcd: I surveyed what would work with scribite and
what had what features and such
00:04:52 <danielsmw> And I've decided on TinyMCE
00:04:58 * perspectival is here
00:05:05 <danielsmw> the problem I've run into is the lack of guidelines on
00:05:17 <danielsmw> And especially js built with ant
00:05:26 <danielsmw> (which I didn't actually know was possible, who knew).
00:05:48 <danielsmw> As a new packager, I don't think I can handle that sort
of task by myself.
00:05:55 <danielsmw> It's not a time thing, just a knowledge thing.
00:06:07 <jjmcd> Well, somebody has to be able to help with js, but ant? You
may be on your own
00:06:11 <danielsmw> So I can still do it, but I'd really appreciate if
someone would be willing to sit down iwth me one day and do it.
00:06:28 <danielsmw> There are actually pretty okay ant guidelines under
00:06:36 <danielsmw> It's the mixture of the two that I don't understand.
00:06:55 <jjmcd> Oh, OK. What about whoever wrote those guidelines?
00:07:21 <danielsmw> I suppose I could ask them. The JS guidelines are still
in draft, though. I'm not sure that there really even are guidelines,
00:07:32 <danielsmw> Personally, it doesn't make sense to package
00:07:38 <jjmcd> Perhaps having the background of writing the guidelines
they will have the perspective to be able to guide you
00:07:44 <danielsmw> But I don't understand the going ons of Zikula
00:07:46 <danielsmw> and such.
00:07:57 <danielsmw> That's probably at least a start, you're right.
00:08:08 <jjmcd> Well, Zikula isn't sooo different from other web apps
00:08:10 <danielsmw> Okay, then I'll do that this week and hopefully get
somewhere by the weekend.
00:08:24 <jjmcd> OK, I'll try to be around to offer what little I can
00:08:30 <danielsmw> Thanks, jjmcd
00:08:32 <jjmcd> Maybe mostly moral support
00:08:36 <danielsmw> :-)
00:08:57 <jjmcd> The other items are Sparks, quaid and ianweller, none of
whom are here
00:09:22 <jjmcd> ANything else on action items?
00:09:52 <jjmcd> #topic Release notes format changes
00:10:01 <jjmcd> OK, here I need some help
00:10:22 <danielsmw> I can offer moral support. :-)
00:10:25 <jjmcd> We talked about having all changes in tables, and only a
little in the way of prose
00:10:48 <jjmcd> But there are a lot of apps that cross beats, and not all
apps are covered by beats
00:11:11 <jjmcd> And oh yeah, Alpha was really lame, only about 20% of
packages, so we don't really know what we have
00:11:30 <jjmcd> I am proposing to move the tables to the end, and organize
them by rpm_group
00:11:50 <jjmcd> With an alphabetical index, people can find anything fairly
00:12:13 <jjmcd> Trouble is, it is big, but we don't really know for sure
00:12:31 <jjmcd> Any thoughts on that approach?
00:12:46 * danielsmw likes alphabetical indexes.
00:13:13 <danielsmw> Does it matter if it's too big, really?
00:13:18 <danielsmw> besides losing some style points?
00:13:42 <danielsmw> that might be a dumb question, I'm not familiar with RN
00:13:43 <jjmcd> I don't think so. We don't add a lot to translate
00:13:48 <danielsmw> okay.
00:14:11 <rudi> The other intrinsic problem is that the rpm groups don't
always make much sense
00:14:51 <jjmcd> rudi, you got that right, but if I turn my head sideways, I
can generally see how someone could imagine they belong the way they are
00:14:57 <danielsmw> that's true. lots of things belong in more than one
category in reality, so the groups are occasionally confusing.
00:15:01 <jjmcd> Which leads me to believe that no grouping is perfect
00:15:14 <rudi> Indeed
00:15:27 <jjmcd> Example tables/index in
00:15:40 <danielsmw> Although grouping it my rpm may encourage packagers to
more carefully consider the groups they use.
00:15:53 <jjmcd> I was kind of thinking that, too
00:16:11 <jjmcd> With the index you can find what you are looking for
00:16:13 <rudi> Yeah -- it will be good if we can somehow apply some
pressure in that direction
00:16:14 <ryanlerch> and not create new groups
00:16:29 <ryanlerch> or sub groups
00:16:37 <jjmcd> Some are just stupid, like Applications/Games vs games
00:16:48 <jjmcd> Why do you need both, pick one or the other
00:17:02 <ryanlerch> from memory, the networking one was a bit crazy too
00:17:46 <jjmcd> The list on fedorapeople is against rawhide. I expect F12
will be smaller than that, but we don't have a feel for how much smaller
because alpha was so limited
00:18:23 <jjmcd> Yes, there are amateur radio apps in networking that have
nothing to do with networking
00:19:02 <jjmcd> Also, there are some beats with a few minor changes, I
think we need to drop them rather than adding fluff
00:20:15 <jjmcd> And I think we need to move embedded development out of
development to the specialized group. It really goes with FEL
00:20:34 <jjmcd> even tho it has the word development. It doesn't fit with
00:21:20 <jjmcd> rudi, are you pretty much there on installer?
00:21:41 <rudi> Well, I haven't got anything new :)
00:22:08 <jjmcd> I think I may have put some placeholders in there but not
turned it into real prose
00:22:21 <rudi> I'll take another look
00:22:35 <jjmcd> I did go through the feature pages and tried to spatter
stuff through the beats
00:23:13 <jjmcd> We were supposed to have the 'big' pots out yesterday
00:24:27 <jjmcd> So I intend to do what I can tomorrow and Saturday and then
try to make pots saturday or sunday. The beats are nowhere near where I'd
like, but L10N is waiting on us
00:25:02 <rudi> I'll pitch in to help with that
00:25:11 <jjmcd> I appreciate that rudi
00:25:19 <jjmcd> I'll be out of town Friday
00:25:23 <rudi> NP
00:25:45 <jjmcd> But except for a few interruptions, I'll be around
00:26:07 <jjmcd> The good news is we don't have to do all that po madness
from 11 so it should be a little easier
00:26:23 <jjmcd> although I should check with glezos on that
00:26:45 <rudi> Yeah -- check. I'm assuming that we *will* have to do the po
00:26:45 <jjmcd> #action jjmcd to check with glezos on po's
00:27:21 <jjmcd> OK, anything else on release notes?
00:28:06 <jjmcd> I'm surprised noriko didn't come over
00:28:30 <jjmcd> We have no ke4qqq for Zikula so ....
00:28:45 <jjmcd> #topic Status on CC license rollout
00:28:51 <jjmcd> ANything new to report?
00:29:47 <jjmcd> hearing nothing
00:29:58 <jjmcd> #topic Guide needs?
00:30:08 <danielsmw> I haz guide needs
00:30:19 <jjmcd> Ahhhh, whatcha got?
00:30:26 <rudi> I know -- I'm the blocker there
00:30:33 <danielsmw> rudi: :-)
00:30:39 <danielsmw> a little, rudi, but I can still write content
00:30:46 <rudi> Yeppa
00:31:04 <danielsmw> rudi: Did I send you an email about what sections I
wanted to cover for F11?
00:31:10 <danielsmw> I think I wrote it and may not have sent it
00:31:18 <danielsmw> doesn't matter, anyway, the point is
00:31:29 <rudi> I saw a link in IRC
00:31:37 <danielsmw> okay, good
00:31:41 <rudi> But you were offline by the time I read it -- I bookmarked
00:31:52 <danielsmw> do you still have the link by chance?
00:32:16 <danielsmw> never mind, I got it
00:32:41 <danielsmw> anyway, my proposal is just to work up through the
first 5 chapters for F12 release.
00:32:48 <jjmcd> There is a lot of detail in the desktop beat that I wonder
whether it belongs in the desktop guide
00:33:02 <danielsmw> jjmcd: I will take a look and see if perhaps it does
00:33:07 <jjmcd> thanks
00:33:28 <danielsmw> anyway, if anyone has any comment on what I've chosen
to be ready for F12, now's your chance I suppose.
00:34:27 <danielsmw> Okay, well, I'll put something out to the list, but
that's all I have to say.
00:35:03 <danielsmw> except, rudi: I really don't want to pressure you at
all, because it isn't a big deal, but do you have an estimate on when you'll
00:35:09 <danielsmw> with the Xml skeleton?
00:35:30 <jjmcd> Looks to me like a good triage
00:35:32 <rudi> Still "RSN" -- next couple of days
00:35:39 <danielsmw> okay, that's fine.
00:35:42 <rudi> (although I know I said that two days ago!!) :)
00:35:47 <danielsmw> :)
00:36:00 * danielsmw is done with his guide needs.
00:36:14 <jjmcd> OK, anything else on guide?
00:36:31 <jjmcd> s/?/s?
00:36:42 <danielsmw> ??
00:37:09 <jjmcd> <---- old PDP guy
00:37:14 * bcotton needs to actually work on the RPM guide, but doesnt
require any external assistance at the moment (except maybe a cattle prod)
00:37:37 <danielsmw> jjmcd: yeah, i always get confused when regexs aren't
closed on the end
00:37:47 <jjmcd> hehe - I think we all have that "the hurrier I go the
behinder I get" syndrome
00:38:10 <jjmcd> danielsmw, I'm pretty ancient, esp. as this business is
00:38:35 <jjmcd> By the way, today is Dennis Ritchie's birthday, seems to me
there should have been a lot more press about it
00:38:57 <jjmcd> #topic All other business
00:39:08 <jjmcd> Anything else for the good of the order?
00:39:40 <rudi> Anyone else here able to sponsor new package maintainers?
00:39:40 <jjmcd> 5
00:39:45 <rudi> (I think ianweller can)
00:40:00 <danielsmw> I need one, I'll have to ask ianweller.
00:40:09 <jjmcd> lets all gang up on the missing ianweller
00:40:12 <rudi> lolz
00:40:43 <rudi> We need to get some new packagers sponsored who are going to
look after Publican dependencies
00:41:03 <jjmcd> Yes, I need to get my badge as well
00:41:04 <rudi> That's a current blocker for Publican 1.0 and the new Fedora
brand package for 0.44
00:41:43 <jjmcd> rudi, how can we find out about that sort of thing?
00:42:12 <rudi> I raise it in a meeting? :)
00:42:40 <jjmcd> Hey - I just got an email from mister K&R himself!
00:42:45 <jjmcd> I suspected as much
00:43:06 <jjmcd> It would be nice to be able to identify those things before
they become painful
00:43:18 <rudi> It only *just* became a blocker
00:43:37 <jjmcd> K
00:43:40 <rudi> (within the last couple of days)
00:44:26 <rudi> But I didn't want to rush the sponsorship process either
00:44:33 <rudi> It's important that we do things right.
00:45:04 <rudi> But yeah, it's been a few days without any activity yet, so
now I'm making noise :)
00:45:23 <jjmcd> Yes, I agree. Seems like there are things we could
predict, though. After all, it isn't like we don't have computers and
00:45:58 <jjmcd> OK, anything else?
00:46:21 <jjmcd> 5
00:46:30 <jjmcd> 4
00:46:40 <jjmcd> 3
00:46:50 <jjmcd> 2
00:47:00 <jjmcd> 1
00:47:09 <jjmcd> #endmeeting
Not yet :-)
The component name is "deployment-guide" now, and, after much
confusion, it simply needs to be changed to "doc-Deployment_Guide"
(with the "doc-" prefix). Its product is fine and correct.
Would you be able to make this name change?
On 09/11/2009 01:53 AM, Eric Christensen wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 16:40, Douglas Silas<dhensley(a)redhat.com> wrote:
>> I have a pending request that I need to accomplish soon. There is a
>> ticket for this request:
>> Mike, just to clarify: did you want the "doc-Deployment_Guide" component
>> under "Fedora" or under "Fedora Documentation"? There seems to be some
>> confusion about this.
>> Douglas Silas
>> Technical Writer | Red Hat, Inc.
> Has this been resolved, now? Is "Deployment_Guide" good now?
Technical Writer | Red Hat, Inc.