#fedora-meeting: Docs Project Meeting - agenda https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
Meeting started by jjmcd at 23:00:08 UTC. The full logs are available at
* Roll Call (jjmcd, 23:00:27)
* Last week's action items (jjmcd, 23:01:42)
* LINK: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fed#linkhttp://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-03-17/fedora-meeting...
* Release Notes (jjmcd, 23:04:17)
* L10N did a killer job on translations, Beta RPM built today with 6
languages - most ever for a beta AFAIK (jjmcd, 23:05:06)
* LINK: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=2073505
* ACTION: jjmcd to track down next actions on beta rpm and someone who
can do them (jjmcd, 23:10:12)
* Guide Status (jjmcd, 23:10:32)
* We will start branching guides for L10N next week, some teams
already done with RN so looking for work (jjmcd, 23:15:56)
* ACTION: nathant to take the Live Images guide (jjmcd, 23:20:52)
* Outstanding BZ tickets (jjmcd, 23:24:17)
* All other business (jjmcd, 23:25:27)
* The infrastructure guys are awesome too (jjmcd, 23:40:33)
Meeting ended at 23:44:11 UTC.
* jjmcd to track down next actions on beta rpm and someone who can do
* nathant to take the Live Images guide
Action Items, by person
* jjmcd to track down next actions on beta rpm and someone who can do
* nathant to take the Live Images guide
People Present (lines said)
* jjmcd (96)
* rudi (35)
* nathant (13)
* Emad78 (10)
* quaid (2)
* bcotton (2)
* zodbot (2)
* ianweller (2)
Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4
.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
23:00:08 <jjmcd> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - agenda
23:00:08 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Mar 24 23:00:08 2010 UTC. The chair is jjmcd. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
23:00:10 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
23:00:27 <jjmcd> #topic Roll Call
23:00:32 * jjmcd
23:00:35 * nathant
23:00:52 * ianweller for the msot part
23:01:03 <ianweller> dinner will likely interrupt, i'll set /away at the appropriate time
23:01:05 * Emad78 is here
23:01:09 * bcotton is here
23:01:42 <jjmcd> #topic Last week's action items
23:01:57 <jjmcd> #link http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fed#linkhttp://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-03-17/fedora-meeting...
23:02:23 * quaid is here too
23:02:28 <jjmcd> 1, 2, 4 all done
23:02:44 <jjmcd> 3 is for this meeting, handled in the Guides topic
23:03:38 <jjmcd> We got the POTs out, got through the Desktop Help Summit, had out howto sort of
23:03:45 <jjmcd> anything on the action items?
23:04:17 <jjmcd> #topic Release Notes
23:05:06 <jjmcd> #info L10N did a killer job on translations, Beta RPM built today with 6 languages - most ever for a beta AFAIK
23:05:31 <nathant> great :)
23:05:34 <jjmcd> quaid or rudi perhaps you know the answer to this
23:05:52 <quaid> ?
23:06:05 <jjmcd> Stickster built the RPM for updates-candidate I believe, but we suspect we need to do something else
23:06:23 <jjmcd> I've not been able to get Jesse to ask, he has been away all afternoon
23:06:34 <jjmcd> Is there some sort of tagging process we need to do?
23:06:59 <rudi> So it's built in Koji?
23:07:02 <jjmcd> yes
23:07:10 <rudi> Next step it needs to be added to the updates system (Bodhi)
23:07:24 <jjmcd> http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=2073505
23:07:46 <jjmcd> OK, that's bad news I think. Seems like you need to be sparks or stickster to do that
23:08:07 <jjmcd> Neither of whom is available
23:08:26 <jjmcd> sparks is buried with work stuff and stickster is onna plane
23:08:48 <bcotton> stickster is a snake?!
23:09:05 <jjmcd> Evidently, he's threatening to leave us
23:09:28 <jjmcd> OK, I'll follow up with something
23:09:40 <jjmcd> Anything else on release notes?
23:10:12 <jjmcd> #action jjmcd to track down next actions on beta rpm and someone who can do them
23:10:32 <jjmcd> #topic Guide Status
23:10:38 <jjmcd> OK Guides
23:10:47 <jjmcd> Emad78, you had some progress today?
23:11:13 <Emad78> Yes I did. Got the long email of gripes done on the user-guide
23:11:32 <rudi> Yay emad78!
23:11:37 <jjmcd> Very cool. Did you leave laubersm anything to do?
23:11:56 <Emad78> Nope
23:12:01 <jjmcd> cool beans
23:12:25 <Emad78> But there were a couple things I don't know about yet that we can figure out later. Nothing major. Like I said in the email.
23:12:45 <jjmcd> Yes, perhaps we can chat in the channel after the meeting
23:12:52 <Emad78> Yes
23:13:08 <jjmcd> Does anyone else have anything with guides?
23:13:33 <rudi> Yeah
23:13:49 <rudi> We need to start looking towards freezing for L10N ASAP
23:14:12 <jjmcd> Good thinking. Isn't User Guide #1 on that list?
23:14:13 <rudi> On Monday, L10N will have six weeks to translate the entire documentation suite
23:14:27 <rudi> Install guide <blush> :)
23:14:32 <jjmcd> ahhhhh
23:14:38 <rudi> I've been talking to Noriko
23:15:00 * jjmcd has to blog on L10N's awseomeness on the release notes
23:15:09 <rudi> And said we would try to start branching stuff during the course of next week
23:15:32 <rudi> yeah -- one of the upshots of the teams who've finished the RN is that they're now waiting on content from us...
23:15:56 <jjmcd> #info We will start branching guides for L10N next week, some teams already done with RN so looking for work
23:16:05 <rudi> So.... UG will be high on that list too
23:16:37 <jjmcd> So there's no lack of things to do the next few weeks
23:17:08 <rudi> One other thing... is there someone here who would like to take the helm of the "live images" doc?
23:17:15 <jjmcd> On that subject, does someone want to raise their hand to shepherd the Live Images guide?
23:17:21 <rudi> snap! :)
23:17:48 <jjmcd> It needs an owner, and it is a relatively simple guide, so a great opportunity for a new contributor looking to have his name on something
23:18:26 <jjmcd> bcotton already has the rpm guide. nathant ??
23:18:51 <Emad78> I could try it out. I'm willing to give it a shot. Maybe??
23:19:07 <nathant> i've just had a quick look, looks like something i could handle!
23:19:11 <rudi> Thanks emad78 :)
23:19:21 <nathant> Oops, slow typing
23:19:23 <Emad78> nathant might want it also.
23:19:28 <jjmcd> :-)
23:19:30 <rudi> Fight!
23:19:45 <nathant> are there any open bugs on it
23:19:46 <jjmcd> Well, I picked on him because you just did a buncha work on the UG
23:20:00 <jjmcd> Is the current UG state F12 or F13?
23:20:04 <rudi> err... emad78 has also done a bunch of work on the UG....
23:20:05 <Emad78> nathant can give it a go. I was going to go for it since I didn't see someone respond.
23:20:20 <Emad78> Yeah maybe nathant can have that one.
23:20:20 <rudi> OK -- nathant -- let's talk after the meeting
23:20:33 <nathant> ok - thanks Emad78 :)
23:20:40 <jjmcd> Good deal, we'll get his name in lights and on the commit list
23:20:52 <jjmcd> #action nathant to take the Live Images guide
23:21:33 <jjmcd> We have a number of other guides that probably need owners but I've been waiting for sparks to contact the current owners
23:21:46 <jjmcd> Some of those folks have gone missing
23:21:55 <jjmcd> Don't know how temporary that is
23:22:10 <jjmcd> Anything else on guides?
23:22:12 <rudi> Yeah; at least we need people to steer them through the F13 portal
23:22:21 <rudi> jjmcd -- one more Q on RN
23:22:26 <jjmcd> yo
23:22:27 <rudi> (sorry, out of sequence)
23:22:57 <rudi> How are we going on those couple of beats that didn't make it into the first batch that we dropped to L10N?
23:23:22 <jjmcd> Haven't looked at them, that was the next thing after the rpm
23:23:36 <rudi> Cool :) I'll get back in line :)
23:23:54 <jjmcd> OK, anything else on guides?
23:24:17 <jjmcd> #topic Outstanding BZ tickets
23:24:29 <jjmcd> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&classificat...
23:24:46 <jjmcd> Anyone have any issues with outstanding tickets?
23:25:27 <jjmcd> #topic All other business
23:25:44 <jjmcd> Let me make a couple of comments, DHS mixed in with RN
23:26:00 <jjmcd> The F13 beta RNs use html instead of yelp
23:26:44 <jjmcd> HOWEVER
23:27:15 <jjmcd> Yelp 3.0 is having it's library footprint greatly reduced in order to be more acceptible to other desktops like KDE
23:27:45 <jjmcd> Furthermore, shaunm is looking at including the KDE help directories in places where yelp searches
23:28:19 <jjmcd> And even cooler, the KDE developers seem amenable to using yelp (3.0 is quite different) in place of khelpcenter
23:28:36 <jjmcd> Evidently, khelpcenter is in need of maintenance
23:28:47 <jjmcd> So some good things came out of last weekend
23:29:51 <jjmcd> Since yelp 3.0 will be released with GNOME 3.0, and "point oh means something", it isn't clear yelp 3.0 will be in F14
23:30:05 <jjmcd> Any questions RN or DHS?
23:30:34 <rudi> jjmcd -- so if we're using HTML, we can probably consolidate the two Revision Histories :)
23:30:44 <jjmcd> yes
23:30:53 <jjmcd> I totally missed that detail, thanks rudi
23:30:56 <rudi> Cool; I'll make it happen :)
23:31:27 <jjmcd> You know, I saw that othe revision history and wondered why it was there -- totally forgot!
23:31:38 <rudi> Yeah ;)
23:32:52 <jjmcd> OK, anything else to come before this august body?
23:33:16 <nathant> quaid made a suggestion on the list about task tracking
23:33:37 <nathant> As I recall a lot of the newbies were in favour :)
23:33:50 <jjmcd> Oh yeah, I scanned that but was in the middle of beats and getting ready for DHS so didn't really digest it
23:34:31 <jjmcd> We do have poelcat's project plan, but no indication there who is lined up to do the work or how hard it is
23:34:45 <jjmcd> quaid, any comments?
23:35:21 <nathant> And also poelcat's plan is pretty general - as this is my first release cycle, I found it hard to understand
23:35:40 <rudi> nathant -- yeah, we've got a way to go with that
23:35:46 <rudi> Still refining
23:35:49 <jjmcd> nathant, this is like my fourth or fifth and I worked on the plan and I found it hard to understand
23:36:01 <nathant> jjmcd: :)
23:36:36 <jjmcd> I finally put the key items on a calendar on my desk and just do it :-)
23:37:27 <nathant> jjmcd: that's fine if you have a clue what the task is and what you need to do!
23:37:39 * jjmcd needs to read that thread in a little more relaxed atmosphere than standing in the snow reading my cell phone
23:37:43 <jjmcd> YEs
23:37:49 <nathant> +1
23:38:03 <jjmcd> I think understanding what needs done is hard any time, but especially when you are just starting
23:38:08 <rudi> Yeah, this is definitely soemthing we can do better at
23:38:11 <jjmcd> Speaking of which ......
23:38:23 <jjmcd> We need to start building guides regularly
23:38:40 <jjmcd> I promised ke4qqq I'd put up some instructions for doing that
23:39:03 <jjmcd> But I need a few minutes with ricky to discuss some of the setup details
23:39:08 <rudi> jjmcd -- which will be fine... as soon as we have some guides to build ;)
23:39:13 <jjmcd> Yah
23:39:30 <rudi> jjmcd -- can we also talk about getting some space other than yours and mine Fedorapeople pages?
23:39:44 <jjmcd> But I tell you what, without the merges and with publican 1.0, 6 hours went down to 20 minutes
23:39:53 <jjmcd> Yes, ricky has set something up already
23:39:58 <rudi> Oh really? Aweseom
23:40:04 <jjmcd> I just need to get the details from him
23:40:24 <rudi> I like I said on docs-list, I'm also keen to see if we can use the new Publican web-publishing feature for this
23:40:33 <jjmcd> #info The infrastructure guys are awesome too
23:40:44 <jjmcd> Oh yeah, that would be cool
23:41:09 <rudi> Yeah, from build --> web in a couple of commands...
23:41:12 <jjmcd> I'm still waiting for the repo for the tech guide tho
23:41:53 <jjmcd> OK, anything else?
23:42:46 <jjmcd> And besides that, anything else?
23:43:15 <jjmcd> OK guys, thanks for coming
23:43:35 <rudi> Thanks for taking the helm!
23:43:36 <jjmcd> Emad78, grab a cup of coffee so I have time to grab the logs and we'll meet in docs
23:43:46 <jjmcd> Have a great week everyone
23:43:53 <Emad78> Ok
23:43:55 <rudi> nathant -- will you be around for a few minutes now?
23:44:00 <nathant> yup
23:44:11 <jjmcd> #endmeeting
Don't forget we have a Docs project meeting tonight at 7:00 PM New York
time. That is 2300Z, Midnight in Madrid, 6:00 PM in Duluth, 9:00 AM
tomorrow in Brisbane, 3:00 PM in Anchorage, and 4:00 PM in San Diego.
If there is anything you would like to see covered, don't hesitate to
add it to the agenda at
I don't think Paul is going to be able to make it, so this is an
opportunity for someone new to run the meeting. Raise your hand if you
I have finished the User-Guide fixes that where in the email from
Murray. That we talked about at the meeting last week. There are a
couple things I didn't know how to fix. Or didn't want to make the
decision on my own. They are minor issues, so I can make out a bug
report for them if someone wishes. I don't think they are major things
but either way let me know.
John (jjmcd) and I agreed to switch off chairing the Docs team
meetings, and John chaired last week's. Unfortunately, though, I'll
be on a plane on the way home from Boston on Wednesday night, and
unable to chair the Docs team meeting. I think everyone agrees we
don't want to miss one at this point in the cycle. Can anyone
substitute for me?
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
Where open source multiplies: http://opensource.com
As most of you know, I was off the the GNOME Desktop Help Summit this
weekend. I thought I would mention a few of the highlights very briefly:
Yelp (the app used to display About Fedora and the Fedora Release Notes)
will undergo some major changes in GNOME 3.0. Probably the most
interesting of these changes is that Shaun has been working hard to
reduce dependencies on larger packages so that Yelp is less of a problem
for other desktops.
Shaun is also looking at ways to allow Yelp to find documentation in the
KDE help locations as well as GNOME locations.
For a while we had some KDE developers online and they seemed amenable
to some of these ideas. I don't know whether we will get to "One help
system to rule them all", but the prospect of delivering help to all the
desktops in a consistent manner seems within reach.
We also talked about the ten top things doc writers should avoid, which
Milo posted on his blog.
For me personally, it was very instructive to see how different the
project dynamic is within GNOME, and especially Ubuntu, as compared to
Fedora. I was also impressed with Shaun and especially his
responsiveness to community needs.
But still, the buttons are on the left.
In conversation with Paul this morning on #fedora-docs, he reminded me
that whenever we have tried to manage Docs tasks with a wiki list or
table, it quickly turns in to bitrot.
It's easy to put up a quick task list on a wiki page, but it's never
sufficient, and it quickly turns to ignored dust until the next time
we need it. Then it's quickly updated (usually too late to make a
difference), and we repeat the cycle.
I have some slim time I can give to Docs right now, and it looks to me
like task tracking is a good thing to focus on. It would assist
project management, existing and new writers, and other teams relying
upon knowing when Docs' work is being done.
Folks in Fedora have been using Trac for this, because it is a task tracking
tool primarily, and is pretty good for that. For example:
Any thoughts about this?
Would you all like me to take a shot at organizing all our tasks for
the F13 release in to categorized and milestone-marked items in Trac?
If so, I'll run it for this release as best as I am able, and will be
forcefully training the world so it can be less of a one-person item
next time. That includes documenting _how_ to use Trac for task
management for this team, etc.
name: Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Sr. Community Gardener
team: Red Hat Community Architecture
Here's a huge thank-you to Ricky, Dmitris, and everyone else who has
helped to get Fedora's Transifex instance upgraded to version 0.7.4.
Amongst a whole host of new features is the one that the docs team and
localization team have been eagerly awaiting -- the ability to handle
multiple PO files per project! This means that Transifex can serve the
multiple PO files that make up documents build with Publican.
Docs writers, we now need to do one last split of the PO files, so that
all the work done by Fedora translators on the big, merged files is
carried across to the individual, Publican files. This should actually
take place in new branches of the git repository for each file. Please
co-ordinate with me on this -- I will email out detailed instructions
(and rationales) shortly.
Translators, we are temporarily disabling submissions to all docs
projects so that we can complete this work and make sure that you don't
lose any translated content that you have submitted. I will notify
trans-list again when this work is completed. We will also (finally) be
able to offer Publican's Common Content files to translators in a sane
way and not rely on emailing updates back-and-forth.
Submissions are temporarily closed for:
Fedora 12 (Docs :: Release Notes) - True
Fedora 12 (Docs :: Deployment Guide) - True
Fedora 12 (Docs :: Installation Quick Start Guide) - True
Fedora 12 (Docs :: Readme) - True
Fedora 12 (Docs :: About Fedora) - True
Fedora 12 (Docs :: User Guide) - True
Fedora 12 (Docs :: Virtualization Guide) - True
Fedora 12 (Docs :: Readme Live Image) - True
Fedora 12 (Docs :: Installation Guide) - True
Fedora 12 (Docs :: Readme Burning ISOs) - True
master (Docs :: Translation Quick Start Guide) - True
trunk (Docs :: SELinux User Guide) - True
trunk (Docs :: Security Guide) - True
Again, thanks to everyone who made this happen!