[Bug 752059] MajorMod: Manually Upgrading the Kernel: Update for GRUB 2

[Chris Murphy]

Hi,

First post to this list. I've offered various observations on devel@ and Fedora Forums
on: general boot behavior, with emphasis on making dual and triple booting work on Macs;
issues surrounding MBR and GPT partitioning schemes; and the lunatic asylum of (U)EFI,
CSM-BIOS and BIOS mode booting of hardware.

I see the bug is assigned, but no activity since Nov 2011. If agreeable, I can take on an
edit for F16 which would also carry over to F17. The fix is very straightforward. As
described in the bug, primarily it's removal of the bulk of existing text, because the
current text is almost entirely obsoleted by GRUB2. And then documenting the proper
command for the included GRUB2 script that causes the regeneration of a new grub.cfg.
I'd expect the section to be cut in size and complexity by 80%, accounting for a
mention of perhaps three optional custom configurations that admins may find useful. And
probably also include some note to the effect that direct editing of the grub.cfg is not
recommended by upstream, therefore advanced users who do edit the file are advised
grub.cfg can be overwritten without notice, and are better off making their custom
inclusions in the proper /etc/grub.d files, and then executing the regeneration script.

Basically, start simple and general purpose, and then get to a few specific examples. And
leave the rest to upstream documentation.

A bit more complicated right now is bug 750108. It might be best to remove the current
material, and reference Anaconda's option to configure this at install time as the
absolute easiest way to deal with it. And reference upstream's documentation until
someone gets around to writing a reasonable step by step for doing it post-install. Better
than than obsolete material that won't work.



Chris Murphy

[Christopher Antila]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi Chris:

If this is, as it seems to be, an offer to help out by replacing
outdated documentation, then yes please! The easiest way is probably
to write and revise it on the wiki, then post a URL as a comment on
the bug.

But first... maybe wait a day or two to see if anybody else is already
working on it. I just checked the latest version in git, and the
relevant section appears to be unchanged, but the System
Administrator's Guide is frequently updated, so you never know.

Welcome to fedora-docs!


Christopher.

On 04/23/2012 01:25 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
>  Hi,
>  
>  First post to this list. I've offered various observations on
>  devel@ and Fedora Forums on: general boot behavior, with emphasis
>  on making dual and triple booting work on Macs; issues surrounding
>  MBR and GPT partitioning schemes; and the lunatic asylum of (U)EFI,
>  CSM-BIOS and BIOS mode booting of hardware.
>  
>  I see the bug is assigned, but no activity since Nov 2011. If
>  agreeable, I can take on an edit for F16 which would also carry
>  over to F17. The fix is very straightforward. As described in the
>  bug, primarily it's removal of the bulk of existing text, because
>  the current text is almost entirely obsoleted by GRUB2. And then
>  documenting the proper command for the included GRUB2 script that
>  causes the regeneration of a new grub.cfg. I'd expect the section
>  to be cut in size and complexity by 80%, accounting for a mention
>  of perhaps three optional custom configurations that admins may
>  find useful. And probably also include some note to the effect that
>  direct editing of the grub.cfg is not recommended by upstream,
>  therefore advanced users who do edit the file are advised grub.cfg
>  can be overwritten without notice, and are better off making their
>  custom inclusions in the proper /etc/grub.d files, and then
>  executing the regeneration script.
>  
>  Basically, start simple and general purpose, and then get to a few
>  specific examples. And leave the rest to upstream documentation.
>  
>  A bit more complicated right now is bug 750108. It might be best to
>  remove the current material, and reference Anaconda's option to
>  configure this at install time as the absolute easiest way to deal
>  with it. And reference upstream's documentation until someone gets
>  around to writing a reasonable step by step for doing it
>  post-install. Better than than obsolete material that won't work.
>  
>  
>  
> >  Chris Murphy 
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[Chris Murphy]

Hi Christopher,

I should have a draft in the next day or two, that I can then incorporate into the wiki.
Although I'm not exactly sure how to do that. 

I have a FAS account and CLA signed. I have read:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_contribute_to_Docs

Since there's an open bug on this issue, I went to:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fixing_documentation_bugs

I'm not finding a page on how to do revisions within the wiki on this particular bug.

Thanks,

Chris Murphy


On Apr 23, 2012, at 8:19 PM, Christopher R. Antila wrote:

>  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>  Hash: SHA1
>  
>  Hi Chris:
>  
>  If this is, as it seems to be, an offer to help out by replacing
>  outdated documentation, then yes please! The easiest way is probably
>  to write and revise it on the wiki, then post a URL as a comment on
>  the bug.
>  
>  But first... maybe wait a day or two to see if anybody else is already
>  working on it. I just checked the latest version in git, and the
>  relevant section appears to be unchanged, but the System
>  Administrator's Guide is frequently updated, so you never know.
>  
>  Welcome to fedora-docs!
>  
>  
>  Christopher.
>  
>  On 04/23/2012 01:25 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > First post to this list. I've offered various observations on
> > devel@ and Fedora Forums on: general boot behavior, with emphasis
> > on making dual and triple booting work on Macs; issues surrounding
> > MBR and GPT partitioning schemes; and the lunatic asylum of (U)EFI,
> > CSM-BIOS and BIOS mode booting of hardware.
> > 
> > I see the bug is assigned, but no activity since Nov 2011. If
> > agreeable, I can take on an edit for F16 which would also carry
> > over to F17. The fix is very straightforward. As described in the
> > bug, primarily it's removal of the bulk of existing text, because
> > the current text is almost entirely obsoleted by GRUB2. And then
> > documenting the proper command for the included GRUB2 script that
> > causes the regeneration of a new grub.cfg. I'd expect the section
> > to be cut in size and complexity by 80%, accounting for a mention
> > of perhaps three optional custom configurations that admins may
> > find useful. And probably also include some note to the effect that
> > direct editing of the grub.cfg is not recommended by upstream,
> > therefore advanced users who do edit the file are advised grub.cfg
> > can be overwritten without notice, and are better off making their
> > custom inclusions in the proper /etc/grub.d files, and then
> > executing the regeneration script.
> > 
> > Basically, start simple and general purpose, and then get to a few
> > specific examples. And leave the rest to upstream documentation.
> > 
> > A bit more complicated right now is bug 750108. It might be best to
> > remove the current material, and reference Anaconda's option to
> > configure this at install time as the absolute easiest way to deal
> > with it. And reference upstream's documentation until someone gets
> > around to writing a reasonable step by step for doing it
> > post-install. Better than than obsolete material that won't work.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Chris Murphy
> >  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >  Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
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> >  -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- 
>  -- 
>  docs mailing list
>  docs(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe:
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/docs

[Chris Murphy]

This edit ideally should be applied to both F16 and F17. It does not apply to F15.

On Apr 24, 2012, at 9:41 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:

>  Hi Christopher,
>  
>  I should have a draft in the next day or two, that I can then incorporate into the wiki.
> Although I'm not exactly sure how to do that. 
>  
>  I have a FAS account and CLA signed. I have read:
>  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_contribute_to_Docs
>  
>  Since there's an open bug on this issue, I went to:
>  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fixing_documentation_bugs
>  
>  I'm not finding a page on how to do revisions within the wiki on this particular
> bug.
>  
>  Thanks,
>  
>  Chris Murphy
>  
>  
>  On Apr 23, 2012, at 8:19 PM, Christopher R. Antila wrote:
>  
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> > 
> > Hi Chris:
> > 
> > If this is, as it seems to be, an offer to help out by replacing
> > outdated documentation, then yes please! The easiest way is probably
> > to write and revise it on the wiki, then post a URL as a comment on
> > the bug.
> > 
> > But first... maybe wait a day or two to see if anybody else is already
> > working on it. I just checked the latest version in git, and the
> > relevant section appears to be unchanged, but the System
> > Administrator's Guide is frequently updated, so you never know.
> > 
> > Welcome to fedora-docs!
> > 
> > 
> > Christopher.
> > 
> > On 04/23/2012 01:25 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >> 
> >> First post to this list. I've offered various observations on
> >> devel@ and Fedora Forums on: general boot behavior, with emphasis
> >> on making dual and triple booting work on Macs; issues surrounding
> >> MBR and GPT partitioning schemes; and the lunatic asylum of (U)EFI,
> >> CSM-BIOS and BIOS mode booting of hardware.
> >> 
> >> I see the bug is assigned, but no activity since Nov 2011. If
> >> agreeable, I can take on an edit for F16 which would also carry
> >> over to F17. The fix is very straightforward. As described in the
> >> bug, primarily it's removal of the bulk of existing text, because
> >> the current text is almost entirely obsoleted by GRUB2. And then
> >> documenting the proper command for the included GRUB2 script that
> >> causes the regeneration of a new grub.cfg. I'd expect the section
> >> to be cut in size and complexity by 80%, accounting for a mention
> >> of perhaps three optional custom configurations that admins may
> >> find useful. And probably also include some note to the effect that
> >> direct editing of the grub.cfg is not recommended by upstream,
> >> therefore advanced users who do edit the file are advised grub.cfg
> >> can be overwritten without notice, and are better off making their
> >> custom inclusions in the proper /etc/grub.d files, and then
> >> executing the regeneration script.
> >> 
> >> Basically, start simple and general purpose, and then get to a few
> >> specific examples. And leave the rest to upstream documentation.
> >> 
> >> A bit more complicated right now is bug 750108. It might be best to
> >> remove the current material, and reference Anaconda's option to
> >> configure this at install time as the absolute easiest way to deal
> >> with it. And reference upstream's documentation until someone gets
> >> around to writing a reasonable step by step for doing it
> >> post-install. Better than than obsolete material that won't work.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Chris Murphy
> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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> > > =vRwG
> > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- 
> > -- 
> > docs mailing list
> > docs(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> > To unsubscribe:
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/docs
>  
>  -- 
>  docs mailing list
>  docs(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe:
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/docs

[Christopher Antila]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi:

When drafting documentation on the wiki, you could just make a new
page in your namespace. Like this:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Crantila/FSC/Sound_Cards

Also, I'm not sure that "outdated software" is a reason we update
already-published documentation. jhradile is the maintainer listed on
the guides table[0], so it's their responsibility to decide when to
publish.

Thanks for contributing!


Christopher

[0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_guides_table



On 04/24/2012 11:44 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
>  
>  This edit ideally should be applied to both F16 and F17. It does
>  not apply to F15.
>  
>  On Apr 24, 2012, at 9:41 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
>  
> > Hi Christopher,
> > 
> > I should have a draft in the next day or two, that I can then
> > incorporate into the wiki. Although I'm not exactly sure how to
> > do that.
> > 
> > I have a FAS account and CLA signed. I have read: 
> > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_contribute_to_Docs
> > 
> > Since there's an open bug on this issue, I went to: 
> > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fixing_documentation_bugs
> > 
> > I'm not finding a page on how to do revisions within the wiki on
> > this particular bug.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Chris Murphy
> > 
> > 
> > On Apr 23, 2012, at 8:19 PM, Christopher R. Antila wrote:
> > 
>  Hi Chris:
>  
>  If this is, as it seems to be, an offer to help out by replacing 
>  outdated documentation, then yes please! The easiest way is
>  probably to write and revise it on the wiki, then post a URL as a
>  comment on the bug.
>  
>  But first... maybe wait a day or two to see if anybody else is
>  already working on it. I just checked the latest version in git,
>  and the relevant section appears to be unchanged, but the System 
>  Administrator's Guide is frequently updated, so you never know.
>  
>  Welcome to fedora-docs!
>  
>  
>  Christopher.
>  
>  On 04/23/2012 01:25 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>> 
> >>>> First post to this list. I've offered various observations
> >>>> on devel@ and Fedora Forums on: general boot behavior, with
> >>>> emphasis on making dual and triple booting work on Macs;
> >>>> issues surrounding MBR and GPT partitioning schemes; and
> >>>> the lunatic asylum of (U)EFI, CSM-BIOS and BIOS mode
> >>>> booting of hardware.
> >>>> 
> >>>> I see the bug is assigned, but no activity since Nov 2011.
> >>>> If agreeable, I can take on an edit for F16 which would
> >>>> also carry over to F17. The fix is very straightforward. As
> >>>> described in the bug, primarily it's removal of the bulk of
> >>>> existing text, because the current text is almost entirely
> >>>> obsoleted by GRUB2. And then documenting the proper command
> >>>> for the included GRUB2 script that causes the regeneration
> >>>> of a new grub.cfg. I'd expect the section to be cut in size
> >>>> and complexity by 80%, accounting for a mention of perhaps
> >>>> three optional custom configurations that admins may find
> >>>> useful. And probably also include some note to the effect
> >>>> that direct editing of the grub.cfg is not recommended by
> >>>> upstream, therefore advanced users who do edit the file are
> >>>> advised grub.cfg can be overwritten without notice, and are
> >>>> better off making their custom inclusions in the proper
> >>>> /etc/grub.d files, and then executing the regeneration
> >>>> script.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Basically, start simple and general purpose, and then get
> >>>> to a few specific examples. And leave the rest to upstream
> >>>> documentation.
> >>>> 
> >>>> A bit more complicated right now is bug 750108. It might be
> >>>> best to remove the current material, and reference
> >>>> Anaconda's option to configure this at install time as the
> >>>> absolute easiest way to deal with it. And reference
> >>>> upstream's documentation until someone gets around to
> >>>> writing a reasonable step by step for doing it 
> >>>> post-install. Better than than obsolete material that won't
> >>>> work.
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Chris Murphy
> >> -- docs mailing list docs(a)lists.fedoraproject.org To
> >> unsubscribe: 
> >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/docs
> > 
> > -- docs mailing list docs(a)lists.fedoraproject.org To
> > unsubscribe: 
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/docs
> >   
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[Chris Murphy]

The software is not outdated. The F16 documentation was outdated immediately upon being
published, i.e. it's always been incorrect for F16. That's what the subject's
bug ID is about.

GRUB 2 shipped in F16, but the F16 System Admin Guide references GRUB Legacy. So it's
a useless entry at best. And confusing at worst (although there's a chance someone
could make their system unbootable by following the existing documentation).

So there is no in-line editing of the exiting documentation possible? Because there are
some things I'd keep, like the sidebars on initrd/initramfs.


Chris Murphy

On Apr 24, 2012, at 1:44 PM, Christopher R. Antila wrote:

>  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>  Hash: SHA1
>  
>  Hi:
>  
>  When drafting documentation on the wiki, you could just make a new
>  page in your namespace. Like this:
>  
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Crantila/FSC/Sound_Cards
>  
>  Also, I'm not sure that "outdated software" is a reason we update
>  already-published documentation. jhradile is the maintainer listed on
>  the guides table[0], so it's their responsibility to decide when to
>  publish.
>  
>  Thanks for contributing!
>  
>  
>  Christopher
>  
>  [0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_guides_table
>  
>  
>  
>  On 04/24/2012 11:44 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
> > 
> > This edit ideally should be applied to both F16 and F17. It does
> > not apply to F15.
> > 
> > On Apr 24, 2012, at 9:41 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
> > 
> >> Hi Christopher,
> >> 
> >> I should have a draft in the next day or two, that I can then
> >> incorporate into the wiki. Although I'm not exactly sure how to
> >> do that.
> >> 
> >> I have a FAS account and CLA signed. I have read: 
> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_contribute_to_Docs
> >> 
> >> Since there's an open bug on this issue, I went to: 
> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fixing_documentation_bugs
> >> 
> >> I'm not finding a page on how to do revisions within the wiki on
> >> this particular bug.
> >> 
> >> Thanks,
> >> 
> >> Chris Murphy
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Apr 23, 2012, at 8:19 PM, Christopher R. Antila wrote:
> >> 
> > Hi Chris:
> > 
> > If this is, as it seems to be, an offer to help out by replacing 
> > outdated documentation, then yes please! The easiest way is
> > probably to write and revise it on the wiki, then post a URL as a
> > comment on the bug.
> > 
> > But first... maybe wait a day or two to see if anybody else is
> > already working on it. I just checked the latest version in git,
> > and the relevant section appears to be unchanged, but the System 
> > Administrator's Guide is frequently updated, so you never know.
> > 
> > Welcome to fedora-docs!
> > 
> > 
> > Christopher.
> > 
> > On 04/23/2012 01:25 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
> >>>>> Hi,
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> First post to this list. I've offered various observations
> >>>>> on devel@ and Fedora Forums on: general boot behavior, with
> >>>>> emphasis on making dual and triple booting work on Macs;
> >>>>> issues surrounding MBR and GPT partitioning schemes; and
> >>>>> the lunatic asylum of (U)EFI, CSM-BIOS and BIOS mode
> >>>>> booting of hardware.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> I see the bug is assigned, but no activity since Nov 2011.
> >>>>> If agreeable, I can take on an edit for F16 which would
> >>>>> also carry over to F17. The fix is very straightforward. As
> >>>>> described in the bug, primarily it's removal of the bulk of
> >>>>> existing text, because the current text is almost entirely
> >>>>> obsoleted by GRUB2. And then documenting the proper command
> >>>>> for the included GRUB2 script that causes the regeneration
> >>>>> of a new grub.cfg. I'd expect the section to be cut in size
> >>>>> and complexity by 80%, accounting for a mention of perhaps
> >>>>> three optional custom configurations that admins may find
> >>>>> useful. And probably also include some note to the effect
> >>>>> that direct editing of the grub.cfg is not recommended by
> >>>>> upstream, therefore advanced users who do edit the file are
> >>>>> advised grub.cfg can be overwritten without notice, and are
> >>>>> better off making their custom inclusions in the proper
> >>>>> /etc/grub.d files, and then executing the regeneration
> >>>>> script.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Basically, start simple and general purpose, and then get
> >>>>> to a few specific examples. And leave the rest to upstream
> >>>>> documentation.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> A bit more complicated right now is bug 750108. It might be
> >>>>> best to remove the current material, and reference
> >>>>> Anaconda's option to configure this at install time as the
> >>>>> absolute easiest way to deal with it. And reference
> >>>>> upstream's documentation until someone gets around to
> >>>>> writing a reasonable step by step for doing it 
> >>>>> post-install. Better than than obsolete material that won't
> >>>>> work.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Chris Murphy
> >>> -- docs mailing list docs(a)lists.fedoraproject.org To
> >>> unsubscribe: 
> >>> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/docs
> >> 
> >> -- docs mailing list docs(a)lists.fedoraproject.org To
> >> unsubscribe: 
> >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/docs
> > 
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> >  =Ev/s
> >  -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- 
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>  docs mailing list
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>  To unsubscribe:
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[Ben Cotton]

On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 4:05 PM, Chris Murphy <lists(a)colorremedies.com&gt; wrote:

>  So there is no in-line editing of the exiting documentation possible?
> Because there are some things I'd keep, like the sidebars on initrd/initramfs.
>  
There are several ways to get the docs updated. The first and most
awesome is to join the docs-writers group in FAS. From there you can
check out the git repo, make the appropriate DocBook XML edits, and
commit the corrected version.

If you're skittish about doing that, you can grab the source from the
git repo, make the appropriate DocBook XML edits, and attach the
resulting patch to the open bug.

 The final option is to write up the plain text changes and include
them in the open bug. One or more docs contributors will then do the
appropriate markup and commit the updates.


Does this help?
BC

-- 
Ben Cotton
Fedora Docs Leader

[Chris Murphy]

On Apr 24, 2012, at 2:44 PM, Ben Cotton wrote:
>  The first and most awesome is to join the docs-writers group in FAS.
Group is invite only.

FAS account name is chrismurphy.


>  From there you can
>  check out the git repo, make the appropriate DocBook XML edits, and
>  commit the corrected version.
>  
>  If you're skittish about doing that, you can grab the source from the
>  git repo, make the appropriate DocBook XML edits, and attach the
>  resulting patch to the open bug. 
Probably one of these two, we'll see how it goes.


Chris Murphy

[Ben Cotton]

On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 5:31 PM, Chris Murphy <lists(a)colorremedies.com&gt; wrote:
>  Group is invite only.
>  
It looks like jjmcd got you added to the group.

>  Probably one of these two, we'll see how it goes. 
Excellent. The wiki and the Documentation Guide[0] make a good
starting point. If you have any questions, please ask on-list or in
the #fedora-docs IRC room.

[0]
http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora_Draft_Documentation/0.1/html/D...


-- 
Ben Cotton
Fedora Docs Leader

[Eric Christensen]

On Apr 24, 2012 4:05 PM, "Chris Murphy" <lists(a)colorremedies.com&gt; wrote:
>  GRUB 2 shipped in F16, but the F16 System Admin Guide references GRUB 
Legacy. So
it's a useless entry at best. And confusing at worst (although
there's a chance someone could make their system unbootable by following
the existing documentation).

I wonder how many other guides have this old information in them AND if it
wouldn't just be better to just comment out that text until someone can
write up the new instructions.

-Eric

[Christopher Antila]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi:

On 04/24/2012 04:05 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
>  The software is not outdated. The F16 documentation was outdated
>  immediately upon being published, i.e. it's always been incorrect
>  for F16. That's what the subject's bug ID is about.
>  
>  GRUB 2 shipped in F16, but the F16 System Admin Guide references
>  GRUB Legacy. So it's a useless entry at best. And confusing at
>  worst (although there's a chance someone could make their system
>  unbootable by following the existing documentation).
>  
>  So there is no in-line editing of the exiting documentation
>  possible? Because there are some things I'd keep, like the sidebars
>  on initrd/initramfs.
>  
>  
>  Chris Murphy 
I don't know this for sure, but I somehow remember that we aren't
supposed to update published Guides unless there's a danger of
somebody damaging their system. As you note, in this case there is.


Christopher.


>  On Apr 24, 2012, at 1:44 PM, Christopher R. Antila wrote:
>  
>  Hi:
>  
>  When drafting documentation on the wiki, you could just make a new 
>  page in your namespace. Like this:
>  
>  https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Crantila/FSC/Sound_Cards
>  
>  Also, I'm not sure that "outdated software" is a reason we update 
>  already-published documentation. jhradile is the maintainer listed
>  on the guides table[0], so it's their responsibility to decide when
>  to publish.
>  
>  Thanks for contributing!
>  
>  
>  Christopher
>  
>  [0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_guides_table
>  
>  
>  
>  On 04/24/2012 11:44 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> This edit ideally should be applied to both F16 and F17. It
> >>> does not apply to F15.
> >>> 
> >>> On Apr 24, 2012, at 9:41 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
> >>> 
> >>>> Hi Christopher,
> >>>> 
> >>>> I should have a draft in the next day or two, that I can
> >>>> then incorporate into the wiki. Although I'm not exactly
> >>>> sure how to do that.
> >>>> 
> >>>> I have a FAS account and CLA signed. I have read: 
> >>>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_contribute_to_Docs
> >>>> 
> >>>> Since there's an open bug on this issue, I went to: 
> >>>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fixing_documentation_bugs
> >>>> 
> >>>> I'm not finding a page on how to do revisions within the
> >>>> wiki on this particular bug.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> 
> >>>> Chris Murphy
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> On Apr 23, 2012, at 8:19 PM, Christopher R. Antila wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>> Hi Chris:
> >>> 
> >>> If this is, as it seems to be, an offer to help out by
> >>> replacing outdated documentation, then yes please! The
> >>> easiest way is probably to write and revise it on the wiki,
> >>> then post a URL as a comment on the bug.
> >>> 
> >>> But first... maybe wait a day or two to see if anybody else
> >>> is already working on it. I just checked the latest version
> >>> in git, and the relevant section appears to be unchanged, but
> >>> the System Administrator's Guide is frequently updated, so
> >>> you never know.
> >>> 
> >>> Welcome to fedora-docs!
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Christopher.
> >>> 
> >>> On 04/23/2012 01:25 AM, Chris Murphy wrote:
> >>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> First post to this list. I've offered various
> >>>>>>> observations on devel@ and Fedora Forums on: general
> >>>>>>> boot behavior, with emphasis on making dual and
> >>>>>>> triple booting work on Macs; issues surrounding MBR
> >>>>>>> and GPT partitioning schemes; and the lunatic asylum
> >>>>>>> of (U)EFI, CSM-BIOS and BIOS mode booting of
> >>>>>>> hardware.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> I see the bug is assigned, but no activity since Nov
> >>>>>>> 2011. If agreeable, I can take on an edit for F16
> >>>>>>> which would also carry over to F17. The fix is very
> >>>>>>> straightforward. As described in the bug, primarily
> >>>>>>> it's removal of the bulk of existing text, because
> >>>>>>> the current text is almost entirely obsoleted by
> >>>>>>> GRUB2. And then documenting the proper command for
> >>>>>>> the included GRUB2 script that causes the
> >>>>>>> regeneration of a new grub.cfg. I'd expect the
> >>>>>>> section to be cut in size and complexity by 80%,
> >>>>>>> accounting for a mention of perhaps three optional
> >>>>>>> custom configurations that admins may find useful.
> >>>>>>> And probably also include some note to the effect 
> >>>>>>> that direct editing of the grub.cfg is not
> >>>>>>> recommended by upstream, therefore advanced users who
> >>>>>>> do edit the file are advised grub.cfg can be
> >>>>>>> overwritten without notice, and are better off making
> >>>>>>> their custom inclusions in the proper /etc/grub.d
> >>>>>>> files, and then executing the regeneration script.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Basically, start simple and general purpose, and then
> >>>>>>> get to a few specific examples. And leave the rest to
> >>>>>>> upstream documentation.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> A bit more complicated right now is bug 750108. It
> >>>>>>> might be best to remove the current material, and
> >>>>>>> reference Anaconda's option to configure this at
> >>>>>>> install time as the absolute easiest way to deal with
> >>>>>>> it. And reference upstream's documentation until
> >>>>>>> someone gets around to writing a reasonable step by
> >>>>>>> step for doing it post-install. Better than than
> >>>>>>> obsolete material that won't work.
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Chris Murphy
> >>>>> -- docs mailing list docs(a)lists.fedoraproject.org To 
> >>>>> unsubscribe: 
> >>>>> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/docs
> >>>> 
> >>>> -- docs mailing list docs(a)lists.fedoraproject.org To 
> >>>> unsubscribe: 
> >>>> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/docs
> >>> 
> > -- docs mailing list docs(a)lists.fedoraproject.org To
> > unsubscribe: 
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/docs
> >   
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[Chris Murphy]

On Apr 24, 2012, at 7:47 PM, Christopher R. Antila wrote:
>  
>  I don't know this for sure, but I somehow remember that we aren't
>  supposed to update published Guides unless there's a danger of
>  somebody damaging their system. As you note, in this case there is. 

I'm envisioning a low complexity, and hence low liability replacement.

Given the possibility published Guides may not be updatable, and in interest of avoiding
this bug's persistence in F17 documentation, I think Eric's suggestion to remove
the old information is a good idea. 

What is a realistic cutoff date for a.) removal of the sub-section in question; b)
incorporating a revision of it?

http://rbergero.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-17/f-17-docs-tasks.html

Best I can tell it's probably before 5/7.


Chris Murphy

[Ben Cotton]

On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 10:08 PM, Chris Murphy <lists(a)colorremedies.com&gt; wrote:
>  What is a realistic cutoff date for a.) removal of the sub-section in
> question; b) incorporating a revision of it?
>  
You're right that we should have it done by 5/7 in order to meet the
goal for F17 GA. That said, guides often aren't released until after
the GA. The schedule is not super-rigid in that regard.

I'll go ahead and comment out the offending material if you can verify
that I'm yanking the right parts:

Bug 750108 (security guide)
  * comment out the entirety of Section 2.1.2.2.1. Password Protecting GRUB

Bug 752059 (sysadmin guide)
  * comment out Section 20.6.1

Is this correct?

-- 
Ben Cotton
Fedora Docs Leader

[Chris Murphy]

On Apr 24, 2012, at 8:27 PM, Ben Cotton wrote:
>  
>  Bug 750108 (security guide)
>   * comment out the entirety of Section 2.1.2.2.1. Password Protecting GRUB 
Correct.

If you want to include a URL for upstream instructions until something is written:

http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html#Security



>  
>  Bug 752059 (sysadmin guide)
>   * comment out Section 20.6.1 
Correct. If you want to include a basic instruction and URL until something is written,
the following covers better than 90% of use cases and is Fedora 16/17 specific (other
distros call grub-mkconfig not grub2-mkconfig). And as a fussy and mostly Mac user I can
vouch that the F17 release-version has worked flawlessly so far (single, dual, triple boot
tested), and produces a very nicely organized menu. Suggestion:


The following command will generate a new configuration file for GRUB, which will include
entries for all installed kernels.

'grub2-mkconfig -o /boot/grub2/grub.cfg'

For more information about grub2-mkconfig usage, see:
http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub.html#Invoking-grub_002dmkconfig



Chris Murphy

[Jaromir Hradilek]

On 04/25/2012 04:27 AM, Ben Cotton wrote:
>  On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 10:08 PM, Chris
> Murphy<lists(a)colorremedies.com>  wrote:
> > What is a realistic cutoff date for a.) removal of the sub-section in question; b)
> incorporating a revision of it?
> >
>  You're right that we should have it done by 5/7 in order to meet the
>  goal for F17 GA. That said, guides often aren't released until after
>  the GA. The schedule is not super-rigid in that regard.
>
>  I'll go ahead and comment out the offending material if you can verify
>  that I'm yanking the right parts:
>
>  Bug 750108 (security guide)
>     * comment out the entirety of Section 2.1.2.2.1. Password Protecting GRUB
>
>  Bug 752059 (sysadmin guide)
>     * comment out Section 20.6.1
>
>  Is this correct? 
I do not agree. There are more sections in the book that directly or 
indirectly discuss GRUB and require the user to verify its configuration 
(section 20.5, "Verifying the Initial RAM Disk Image"; section 22.1.2.1, 
"Configuring the Memory Usage"). All these sections need to be reviewed 
and updated.

 From my point of view, commenting an entire section out in this 
situation is not an acceptable fix:

   1. By commenting this section out, you lose more than you gain, 
because it contains more important information than just where to find 
the configuration file and how to edit it.

   2. Most Fedora users do use GRUB, not YABOOT, nor any other boot 
loader mentioned in the book. Not having a section on GRUB is more 
confusing than having outdated information.

   3. The System Administrator's Guide does not have a dedicated chapter 
for GRUB at the moment. The chapter in question is not about GRUB, which 
is something that is not mentioned in this discussion and should be. It 
is about manually upgrading the kernel, which is something people are 
not encouraged to do (see the admonition at the very beginning of the 
chapter). People who decide to do this are usually very technical and 
are capable of recognizing that something is different on their system 
and that the chapter is outdated.

Note that this is a known issue, I am aware of it, I filed that bug 
myself, and I am of course going to review the sections in question 
before the release of Fedora 17. If you create a wiki page or send me a 
patch, I will of course take a look at it and probably use it. After 
that, I will backport the fix to the Fedora 16 branch and republish the 
book with this fix in place.

Cheers,
-- 
Jaromir Hradilek
Associate Content Author
Engineering Content Services

Red Hat Czech, s. r. o.
Purkynova 99
612 45 Brno, Czech Republic

[Chris Murphy]

On Apr 25, 2012, at 8:34 AM, Jaromir Hradilek wrote:
>  
>  I do not agree. There are more sections in the book that directly or indirectly discuss
> GRUB and require the user to verify its configuration (section 20.5, "Verifying the
> Initial RAM Disk Image"; section 22.1.2.1, "Configuring the Memory Usage").
> All these sections need to be reviewed and updated. 
Complicating matters is that UEFI installs use GRUB Legacy EFI for F16 and F17, although
the location of files is different. So upon second consideration, wholesale removal or
replacement of existing GRUB content isn't indicated.

There is the related issue of partition tables: UEFI systems will use GPT, and BIOS
systems use MBR except when disks are > 2.2TB [1]. The partition table affects syntax
used in GRUB 2's grub.cfg.

>   3. The System Administrator's Guide does not have a dedicated
> chapter for GRUB at the moment. The chapter in question is not about GRUB, which is
> something that is not mentioned in this discussion and should be. It is about manually
> upgrading the kernel, which is something people are not encouraged to do (see the
> admonition at the very beginning of the chapter). People who decide to do this are usually
> very technical and are capable of recognizing that something is different on their system
> and that the chapter is outdated. 
a.) There is an entire appendix on GRUB in the Installation Guide, which probably would be
better placed in the Sys Admin Guide, revised for GRUB Legacy EFI particulars. A separate
appendix on GRUB 2 particulars could be started, and eventually a section on how GRUB 2
EFI differs.

b.) If people are not encouraged to do something, that something shouldn't be
documented at all. This is like handing out razor blades and telling people to go play out
on the freeway.

c.) I'm regularly coming across many technical people who are very confused about GRUB
2, assuming they still need to manually edit grub.cfg rather than the separate user
editable files, and then re-running the grub.cfg creation script.

The question now is if the user and admin confusion is better handled at this stage of the
F17 cycle in documentation, even a simple sidebar on invoking GRUB 2's grub2-mkconfig
command? Or left alone for more invasive re-organization? Simultaneous documentation of
two GRUBs is going to take some non-trivial work, starting with how to organize, which
isn't a likely conversation until after F17 ships, is my guess.


Chris Murphy