I´ve got a wireless USB keyboard + optical mouse in a machine running Fedora Core 2. Both devices are working perfectly. I can use the keyboard without any problem but I´m having a little trouble with the mouse. The pointer (cursor) moves perfectly -so the mouse is working- but I can´t click or use the wheel. I don´t really care about the wheel too much but no button is working. This doesn´t happen when I use a PS/2 optical mouse. And, finally, under Windowshit XP (in the same machine) it works perfectly... so, is nos the BIOS setting. And of course I played for a while with kudzu and system-config-mouse. What can I do? Is there a driver for that? Thanks.
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On Sun, 2004-07-25 at 01:10, pablo@hard-line.com.ar wrote:
I´ve got a wireless USB keyboard + optical mouse in a machine running Fedora Core 2. Both devices are working perfectly. I can use the keyboard without any problem but I´m having a little trouble with the mouse. The pointer (cursor) moves perfectly -so the mouse is working- but I can´t click or use the wheel. I don´t really care about the wheel too much but no button is working. This doesn´t happen when I use a PS/2 optical mouse. And, finally, under Windowshit XP (in the same machine) it works perfectly... so, is nos the BIOS setting. And of course I played for a while with kudzu and system-config-mouse. What can I do? Is there a driver for that? Thanks.
This list, fedora-docs-list, is for discussing Fedora documentation, not for technical help with Fedora. If you need technical assistance, you want the fedora-list instead. Here's where you can find information on that list, and search the archives before posting:
http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list/
Good luck and best wishes.
On Sunday 25 July 2004 09:16 am, Paul W. Frields wrote:
What can I do? Is there a driver for that? Thanks.
This list, fedora-docs-list, is for discussing Fedora documentation, not for technical help with Fedora.
This issue arises frequently.
Perhaps it's time to look at it as a documentation issue.
What process did they arrive at in choosing this list?
How can we use the answer to improve the system and get those who need help to the correct place on the first try?
On Sun, 2004-07-25 at 15:15, Hoyt wrote:
What can I do? Is there a driver for that? Thanks.
This list, fedora-docs-list, is for discussing Fedora documentation, not for technical help with Fedora.
This issue arises frequently.
Perhaps it's time to look at it as a documentation issue.
What process did they arrive at in choosing this list?
How can we use the answer to improve the system and get those who need help to the correct place on the first try?
The snarky answer would be "improve literacy throughout the user community." But that's not really answering your question. ;-) I think a good start would be for Red Hat to include a notation in their listinfo pages for fedora-docs-list in a large, easy-to-read, highlighted box, reading in effect:
"The fedora-docs-list is for discussion of Fedora documentation, *not* for technical assistance. If you are looking for help with a Fedora issue, such as how to accomplish a certain task, go to the **fedora-list** [link] pages instead. Thank you!"
I think it's currently very easy for people to mistake one for the other, because they think, "Aha, 'docs' -- that must be where I can find HOWTOs and such." We need to learn that as the user community expands, so too does the tendency to "think like a geek" drop concomitantly. I don't think we'll ever arrive at a 100% success rate with getting the right people to a solution on the first try, although it's certainly a noble goal. But what we should *never* have is users flailing after the second try -- that number should be 100% almost without exception, if you get my meaning.
Cheers!
On Sun, Jul 25, 2004 at 03:15:42PM -0400 or thereabouts, Hoyt wrote:
On Sunday 25 July 2004 09:16 am, Paul W. Frields wrote:
This list, fedora-docs-list, is for discussing Fedora documentation, not for technical help with Fedora.
This issue arises frequently.
Perhaps it's time to look at it as a documentation issue. What process did they arrive at in choosing this list?
"Ooh. Docs people will know the answer because they wrote a document about it. They will certainly know where the document is."
We get this sort of thing on the Gnome docs list. But not nearly as often. I don't know why it happens so often here.
Telsa
On Tuesday 27 July 2004 03:42 am, Telsa Gwynne wrote:
We get this sort of thing on the Gnome docs list. But not nearly as often. I don't know why it happens so often here.
That's why I suggested asking the people how it was that they came to _this_ mail list.
I had a similar problem at my business, receiving ever-increasing phone calls intended for a neighboring business with a similar name. At first, we just assumed that it was name confusion, but when I asked these people how they came upon my number, we were able to determine that an error in Verizon's listing for 411 calls listed my number under my neighbors name. Without asking, the problem would never have been solved.
On Tue, 2004-07-27 at 08:47, Hoyt wrote:
On Tuesday 27 July 2004 03:42 am, Telsa Gwynne wrote:
We get this sort of thing on the Gnome docs list. But not nearly as often. I don't know why it happens so often here.
That's why I suggested asking the people how it was that they came to _this_ mail list.
I had a similar problem at my business, receiving ever-increasing phone calls intended for a neighboring business with a similar name. At first, we just assumed that it was name confusion, but when I asked these people how they came upon my number, we were able to determine that an error in Verizon's listing for 411 calls listed my number under my neighbors name. Without asking, the problem would never have been solved.
Following up on this theory, I looked around for an obvious configuration or information bug at fedora.redhat.com and www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list, and nothing jumps out as a reason people would be lead to this list for generic questions. For example, I looked to see if there was anywhere that fedora-docs-list was described other than "participants of the Docs Project", and I didn't find anything.
Next time we get such a question we'll have to ask how they found this list for their answer.
Following up on this theory, I looked around for an obvious configuration or information bug at fedora.redhat.com and www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list, and nothing jumps out as a reason people would be lead to this list for generic questions. For example, I looked to see if there was anywhere that fedora-docs-list was described other than "participants of the Docs Project", and I didn't find anything.
Next time we get such a question we'll have to ask how they found this list for their answer.
I would think we could take a couple proactive steps without adversely affecting anyone:
1. In Elliot Lee's monthly (or however regular) list of Red Hat/Fedora lists, the first listing appearing at the top, set off in some manner of highlight, should be fedora-list. That would emphasize the importance of that list for users, I think without disparaging any of the other lists. (I could also see including fedora-devel-list with fedora-list; that would probably be a judgment call for the Fedora leadership. I suspect fedora-list sees more traffic, and undoubtedly is where we are continually redirecting folks.)
2. The archive/info page for fedora-docs-list should include a highlighted area that lets people know how fedora-docs-list differs from fedora-list, and helpfully provides a link to fedora-list.
I'm copying Elliot on this message in case he's interested in at least suggestion #1.
On Thu, 2004-07-29 at 12:46, Paul W. Frields wrote:
Following up on this theory, I looked around for an obvious configuration or information bug at fedora.redhat.com and www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list, and nothing jumps out as a reason people would be lead to this list for generic questions. For example, I looked to see if there was anywhere that fedora-docs-list was described other than "participants of the Docs Project", and I didn't find anything.
Next time we get such a question we'll have to ask how they found this list for their answer.
I would think we could take a couple proactive steps without adversely affecting anyone:
- In Elliot Lee's monthly (or however regular) list of Red Hat/Fedora
lists, the first listing appearing at the top, set off in some manner of highlight, should be fedora-list. That would emphasize the importance of that list for users, I think without disparaging any of the other lists. (I could also see including fedora-devel-list with fedora-list; that would probably be a judgment call for the Fedora leadership. I suspect fedora-list sees more traffic, and undoubtedly is where we are continually redirecting folks.)
- The archive/info page for fedora-docs-list should include a
highlighted area that lets people know how fedora-docs-list differs from fedora-list, and helpfully provides a link to fedora-list.
I'm copying Elliot on this message in case he's interested in at least suggestion #1.
Just FYI for Elliot, I requested the list owner to make changes as per #2, to the listinfo/ page and the welcome message.
- Karsten
Uttered Karsten Wade kwade@redhat.com, spake thus:
Following up on this theory, I looked around for an obvious configuration or information bug at fedora.redhat.com and www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list, and nothing jumps out as a reason people would be lead to this list for generic questions.
I started with the http://fedora.redhat.com link and made my way to
http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/
by clicking on the "Docs" button on the introductory page. Here the Documentation Project is mentioned twice, with two links. Unfortunately, there really no documentation available on this path, but following the link gets me to the "Docs Project" page. Still no user documentation, but nothing to indicate that real user-level documentation isn't just another click or two away.
I suggest putting a notice on the "User Documentation" page there at
http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/
these are now the pages to _obtain_ on-line documentation but the place to _create_ it. Something along the lines of "no user serviceable parts inside" message. Maybe "Do you want to be an author? Join our mailing list!" would be sufficient.
Cheers!
On Thu, 2004-07-29 at 17:18, Tommy Reynolds wrote:
Uttered Karsten Wade kwade@redhat.com, spake thus:
Following up on this theory, I looked around for an obvious configuration or information bug at fedora.redhat.com and www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list, and nothing jumps out as a reason people would be lead to this list for generic questions.
I started with the http://fedora.redhat.com link and made my way to
http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/
by clicking on the "Docs" button on the introductory page. Here the Documentation Project is mentioned twice, with two links. Unfortunately, there really no documentation available on this path, but following the link gets me to the "Docs Project" page. Still no user documentation, but nothing to indicate that real user-level documentation isn't just another click or two away.
I suggest putting a notice on the "User Documentation" page there at
http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/
these are now the pages to _obtain_ on-line documentation but the place to _create_ it. Something along the lines of "no user serviceable parts inside" message. Maybe "Do you want to be an author? Join our mailing list!" would be sufficient.
Good point, and exactly the type of concept disconnection we were looking for.
Below I combined Tommy's and Paul's ideas, at least for the mailing list. I don't know off hand how one goes about changing content on fedora.redhat.com.
This is cc:'d the list owner. Warren, can we make changes to the mailing list pages along these lines? Everyone, speak up to fix the language here, or don't and let Warren make the changes verbatim:
http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list
Under "About fedora-docs-list":
"The Fedora Docs Project is for writers and testers of documentation for Fedora Core. The fedora-docs-list is for writers to discuss documentation. For technical answers information, use <a href="http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list">fedora-list@redhat.com</a>."
I think the blurb on http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/, "For participants of the docs project," is probably good enough.
If we really want to drive the point home, we can put this blurb in the "welcome to the mailing list" message emailed to new subscribers. This is a nice thing to do for people, letting them know right away what is on-topic:
"Fedora-docs-list is for writers interested in creating and editing documentation for Fedora Core. This is not the place to obtain documentation or technical help, other than help using the Fedora Docs Project toolchain. If you need help using Fedora Core, use fedora-list; subscribe at http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list."
## 30
- Karsten
On Thu, 2004-07-29 at 20:55, Karsten Wade wrote: [...snip...]
This is cc:'d the list owner. Warren, can we make changes to the mailing list pages along these lines? Everyone, speak up to fix the language here, or don't and let Warren make the changes verbatim:
http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list
Under "About fedora-docs-list":
"The Fedora Docs Project is for writers and testers of documentation for Fedora Core. The fedora-docs-list is for writers to discuss documentation. For technical answers information, use <a
^^^^ and/or?
href="http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list%22%3Efedora-list@redhat.c...</a>."
I think the blurb on http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/, "For participants of the docs project," is probably good enough.
I can live with that; this is kind of an incremental process in any case, so there's no reason to go overboard on changing every reference to fedora-docs-list at once. If we're still getting a third of our threads devoted to out-of-band issues three or six months down the road we could make additional changes.
If we really want to drive the point home, we can put this blurb in the "welcome to the mailing list" message emailed to new subscribers. This is a nice thing to do for people, letting them know right away what is on-topic:
"Fedora-docs-list is for writers interested in creating and editing documentation for Fedora Core. This is not the place to obtain documentation or technical help, other than help using the Fedora Docs Project toolchain. If you need help using Fedora Core, use fedora-list; subscribe at http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list."
I would surround "This is not the place..." with <em> or <i> just to make sure it's read. Looks good!
On Fri, 2004-07-30 at 04:53, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Thu, 2004-07-29 at 20:55, Karsten Wade wrote:
"Fedora-docs-list is for writers interested in creating and editing documentation for Fedora Core. This is not the place to obtain documentation or technical help, other than help using the Fedora Docs Project toolchain. If you need help using Fedora Core, use fedora-list; subscribe at http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list."
I would surround "This is not the place..." with <em> or <i> just to make sure it's read. Looks good!
How about <blink /> tags? :-D
Un*fortunately, the welcome email is plain text, so we'll have to make sure the wording is emphasis enough.
- Karsten
* well, it's not really unfortunate.
On Fri, 2004-07-30 at 17:45, Karsten Wade wrote:
I would surround "This is not the place..." with <em> or <i> just to make sure it's read. Looks good!
How about <blink /> tags? :-D
Un*fortunately, the welcome email is plain text, so we'll have to make sure the wording is emphasis enough.
Yeah, more blinking... and red, can we have red? Or cornflower blue? :-D In meager defense, I was only talking about on the Web page for fedora-docs-list. But to paraphrase earlier sentiments, you can lead a horse to water, etc....
-
Hoyt -
Karsten Wade -
Pablo -
Paul W. Frields -
Telsa Gwynne -
Tommy Reynolds