09:01 < quaid> <meeting>
09:01 < quaid>
09:01 < jmbuser> JohnBabich
09:02 < EvilBob> BobJensen
09:04 < EvilBob> News on item 1?
09:06 < EvilBob> Did I get disconnected?
09:06 -!- gomix [n=gomix(a)22.214.171.124] has left #fedora-docs 
09:06 < jmbuser> EvilBob: You're still on the air, but I don't know about
09:07 < quaid> uh, huh
09:07 < quaid> work day :/
09:07 * quaid had to order a Subversion dump in moving a project around, timely crap
09:08 < quaid> ok, so, with just a few of us, we can read some stuff into the record
and move aong
09:08 < jmbuser> +1
09:08 < quaid> proposed workflow -- previously ratified, at least consensus by
silence, and it looked pretty good
09:08 < quaid> jmbuser: you got your suggestions in on that, right? yes, iirc
09:09 < jmbuser> quaid: I like it...
09:09 < quaid> k
09:09 < quaid> next, digging up a link to vpv's latest status update
09:09 < quaid> http://vpv.kapsi.fi/blog/2007/07/30/weekly-report-week-30/
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09:10 < vpv> I'm here if you need to ask anything
09:10 < EvilBob> I have no questions at this time
09:10 < quaid> don't think so ...
09:11 < vpv> ok
09:11 < quaid> vpv: it's looking good to me; I see where you got caught by some
stuff, but the extra work seems to have produced good results
09:11 < quaid> vpv: mainly for you is, when do you think you want to unleash a test
on f-docs-l for people to try to break? :)
09:12 < quaid> or, rather, go ahead and unleash it for testing when you are ready,
09:12 < vpv> quaid: I wish I knew... I'm testing it locally right now, I'd
say hopefully at the end of the week
09:13 < vpv> but the thing is, the import script has to be run from the console, so
it's not that simple to do a "public test"
09:13 < vpv> but of course the wiki itself can be (and already is, actually) public
09:14 < quaid> well, it's going to depend on what really needs testing
09:14 < quaid> is the import script something that gets run e.g. a few times a
09:14 < vpv> then there's the thing that importing a complete repository takes
something like 2 hours right now...
09:15 < vpv> quaid: for the whole repo, yes, and then updates once in a while
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09:16 < quaid> vpv: well, as long as it doesn't need to be implemented so
writers/editors need to do it regularly
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09:16 < quaid> we can have Infrastructure have an SOP (standard op procedure) for
it, and we just remember to request via ticket.
09:16 < EvilBob> +1
09:17 < quaid> vpv: ok, just let us know anyway we can test, either as a public test
or a smaller group
09:17 < vpv> Ok
09:17 < quaid> if there isn't anything else, I'll move us along ...
09:17 < vpv> not from me...
09:18 < quaid> oops, we missed opening DSCo nominations by 11 days :(
09:18 < EvilBob> oops
09:18 < quaid> ... and we're such a good advertisement for a body to join!
09:18 < quaid> I have a free form discussion topic to insert here
09:18 < quaid> and can probably take it to the list ...
09:19 < jmbuser> ok
09:19 < quaid> it's come up lately about too much bureaucracy in Fedora, and I
also see how successful e.g.F-Infra is without a steering committee, although they have
the new sponsorship (merit -based) model
09:19 < jmbuser> go on...
09:20 < quaid> otoh, I think having recognized leaders helps, just as I think having
some way to show merit-gained (or to gain merit)
09:20 < quaid> so I'm wondering if this project still needs a steering
09:20 < quaid> or at least one that runs this way?
09:20 < EvilBob> I think we do
09:20 < quaid> what do we gain by it? what would be lose?
09:21 < EvilBob> but we need to stress keeping people accountable for what they hope
to do, I know in the past I have fallen way short of my personal goals
09:22 < jmbuser> Also, the steering committee has what some people refer to as a
09:22 < EvilBob> My hate of the wiki has been partially to blame
09:22 < jmbuser> wiki-hating is evil...
09:22 < EvilBob> at the same time not learning the other tools has also hindered me
09:23 < jmbuser> xml-avoidance is also evil - I'm guilty of that as well...
09:24 < EvilBob> I think as committee members we need to get our goals out in the
public eye so we are accountable
09:24 < jmbuser> +1
09:24 < quaid> but all of these things are true without having a structure around
09:24 < EvilBob> we are on the committee to be examples and mentors
09:25 < quaid> maybe the one that thing that a formal committee provides is that
visibility to new contributors
09:25 < EvilBob> I think that we should keep the committee for at least 1 year and
look at its need before the F9 election
09:25 < quaid> f-infra as the skillz to form like Voltron, which we lack
09:25 < quaid> well, just something to discuss ongoing, I guess, no need to derail
09:26 < quaid> should we just bump the schedule up for the elections with tomorrow
as the opening of nominations?
09:26 < jmbuser> +1
09:26 < EvilBob> +1 to the bump
09:26 < Tehnik> A plane with a load of flights recorders have crashed in Columbia.
According to expersts, it will take a thousand years to determine the reason of the
09:27 < EvilBob> Who is up for re-election?
09:28 < quaid> hmm, i forget :)
09:29 < EvilBob> Bart, Powel and John?
09:29 < quaid> before I foolishly do all this, do either of you have the time to
kick elections in gear?
09:29 < EvilBob> Pawel
09:29 < quaid> bump the schedule, figure out which seats are open, tap the right
Wiki pages, send announcements ...
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09:30 < EvilBob> What lists do we send the announcement to?
09:30 < EvilBob> Just ours?
09:30 < quaid> yeah, just ours
09:30 < EvilBob> I can handle that, I have time in the morning
09:30 < quaid> ok, cool
09:31 * EvilBob makes a note
09:31 < quaid> just bump the schedule up a few weeks, and make sure the election
itself has two weekends for voting
09:31 < jmbuser> Thanks, Bob
09:31 < quaid> (the last message sent to the ist was 03 July, iirc)
09:31 < quaid> yeah, thx
09:31 * quaid is busier than a dual amputee at a pancake flipping contest
09:32 < EvilBob> BTW did we kill the fdsco list yet?
09:32 < quaid> as dead as we can, yes
09:32 < EvilBob> Good
09:33 < EvilBob> Next item?
09:34 < EvilBob> Guide updates
09:34 < quaid> *ugh*
09:34 < quaid> sorry, i mean ..uh ...
09:34 < jmbuser> I'm seriously distracted by work - what with a new project and
09:35 < quaid> well, the thing is ...
09:35 < EvilBob> No updates, are there guides we need to poke?
09:35 < quaid> if we are continuing to rely upon only this group to update guides
09:35 < quaid> we are in trouble
09:35 < jmbuser> +1
09:35 < quaid> and we cannot seem to get anyone else interested
09:35 < quaid> and I don't get why
09:35 < EvilBob> I agree
09:35 < EvilBob> maybe some hand holding is needed
09:35 < quaid> I mean, why bother to introduce yourself and get an account and stuff
if you aren't going to pick -anything_
09:35 < EvilBob> mentoring if you will
09:36 < quaid> sure
09:36 < quaid> but someone needs to *ask* for it :)
09:36 < EvilBob> No we need to offer it
09:36 < quaid> EvilBob: all the guides need updates for F7, and we're about to
go into F8
09:36 < quaid> EvilBob: I thought we have
09:36 < jmbuser> I'm willing in a few days to go into a trance and have a
personal "hack day"
09:36 < quaid> jmbuser: but how do we get others to try something like that?
09:36 < quaid> ok, then
09:37 < EvilBob> that falls in line with the vFUDcon item
09:37 < quaid> one action is to make a big stink about how much mentoring and hand
holding there is available, come n gettit
09:37 < jmbuser> exactly!
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09:37 < EvilBob> Personal goal of mine is to get some XML foo going
09:38 < EvilBob> and to help spread that
09:38 < EvilBob> can we move from the guides item for now?
09:38 < quaid> yes
09:38 < EvilBob> OK release notes
09:39 < EvilBob> I am goign to work to flush the beats tonight late an in the
09:39 < EvilBob> so we can get moving on the stuff for F8
09:39 < quaid> ok
09:39 < quaid> are we going to do what we did last time?
09:40 < quaid> one-sheet for test1, test2, and first beta notes are test3?
09:40 < EvilBob> I would like to try and be the EIC I should have been in the past
but I have found the notes are a huge job and I get bogged down
09:41 < EvilBob> SO I am going to try to do as much work as I con
09:41 < EvilBob> can
09:41 < EvilBob> quaid: Yes I think that is the best plan
09:41 < jmbuser> The very first release notes for test1 went very well with an IRC
09:41 < quaid> there should be some help in the new Features process
09:42 < EvilBob> we need to document what happens for the notes
09:42 < quaid> John specifically included a field for relnotes
09:42 < quaid> we don't have that?
09:43 < EvilBob> the process
09:43 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/ReleaseNotes/Process
09:43 < EvilBob> we do but I know there are items that Paul has had to do in the
past that might be missing
09:43 < quaid>
09:43 < quaid> in particular
09:43 < quaid> well, it shouldn't be missing from there :)
09:44 < quaid> stickster_work: can you look at that relnotes process and fix
anything you know is missing?
09:44 < EvilBob> I mean a technical howto for the release notes
09:44 < EvilBob> "push button A" then "push button B"
09:45 < EvilBob> a lot of the work ended up on Paul the last three releases
09:45 < EvilBob> I want to be able to avoid that
09:46 < EvilBob> If paul leaves us we are screwed
09:47 < EvilBob> Not that I am suggesting it will happen only that it can
09:47 < jmbuser> This is the "what if he's hit by a truck" scenario
09:47 < EvilBob> or has a sick kid/wife/self
09:48 < quaid> yeah, that's somewhere, too
09:48 < EvilBob> I am willing to take th elead on making sure we get that this time
09:49 < quaid> ok, just do it if you can not just because you think you should
09:49 < EvilBob> also because our processes change from time to time
09:49 < EvilBob> I can do this
09:49 < EvilBob> anything else on the release notes?
09:50 < EvilBob> vFUDCon/hackfest
09:50 < EvilBob> do we have any plans for this?
09:50 < quaid> ok, I just sent out a notice asking for what people want
09:51 < quaid> think I suggested to Jef that he contact Paul but I don' tknow if
that went anywhere
09:51 < quaid> i think we want to know what people want before we do something?
09:51 < EvilBob> I would like to see a "getting started with CVS/XML"
09:51 < quaid> we could pick a slot.time I suppose
09:52 < EvilBob> Paul has done that in the past and I have always missed it
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09:52 < EvilBob> speak of the devil
09:52 < EvilBob> morning Jef
09:53 < quaid> |DrJef|: if Docs wants to do a vFUDCon slot, um, do we just pick one?
09:54 < |DrJef|> quaid, just pick it
09:54 < |DrJef|> quaid, time is somewhat..flexible... if there is a conflict.. ill
sort it out
09:54 < quaid> ok, let's go to the list with time and what ppl want to hear/see
09:54 < quaid> I think we should focus on current/inactive/active Docs contributors,
rather than trying something to attract new ones, etc.
09:55 < quaid> anything else there/
09:55 < EvilBob> nope that is all I had
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09:57 < quaid> ok
09:57 * quaid closing meeting in a few seconds
09:58 < quaid> </meeting>