DUG + AdminGuide release, update

[Vladimir Kosovac]

List,

few of us had a meeting over on irc and have agreed on a few things:

1] DUG looks good[1] (GNOME)
2] DUG (KDE) almost as good - may need some attention depending on what 
KDE release goes in F9
3] New placeholder for AG conversion is

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AGBeta

However, listed pages are still edited in their 'old' location:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/$section

As agreed, I have cleaned the AG of stuff that will not be included. 
Pages that had content are now in Docs/Drafts and the references to 
those that were empty are removed.

The core group of 3-4 people have committed to early March completion of 
the AG, more hands on deck are more than welcome.

[1] - ready for wordsmithing / format fixing

Vladimir

[Marc Wiriadisastra]

On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 11:03 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote:
> List,
>
> few of us had a meeting over on irc and have agreed on a few things:
>
> 1] DUG looks good[1] (GNOME)
> 2] DUG (KDE) almost as good - may need some attention depending on what 
> KDE release goes in F9
> 3] New placeholder for AG conversion is
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AGBeta
>
> However, listed pages are still edited in their 'old' location:
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/$section
>
> As agreed, I have cleaned the AG of stuff that will not be included. 
> Pages that had content are now in Docs/Drafts and the references to 
> those that were empty are removed.
>
> The core group of 3-4 people have committed to early March completion of 
> the AG, more hands on deck are more than welcome.
>
> [1] - ready for wordsmithing / format fixing
>
> Vladimir

Does someone want to post the irc log somewhere.

Cheers,

Marc

[Eric Christensen]

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Maybe on the Docs Project wiki page?

Eric

On Sun, Jan 20, 2008 at 09:30:06AM +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
> On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 11:03 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote:
> > List,
> >
> > few of us had a meeting over on irc and have agreed on a few things:
> >
> > 1] DUG looks good[1] (GNOME)
> > 2] DUG (KDE) almost as good - may need some attention depending on what 
> > KDE release goes in F9
> > 3] New placeholder for AG conversion is
> >
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AGBeta
> >
> > However, listed pages are still edited in their 'old' location:
> >
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/$section
> >
> > As agreed, I have cleaned the AG of stuff that will not be included. 
> > Pages that had content are now in Docs/Drafts and the references to 
> > those that were empty are removed.
> >
> > The core group of 3-4 people have committed to early March completion of 
> > the AG, more hands on deck are more than welcome.
> >
> > [1] - ready for wordsmithing / format fixing
> >
> > Vladimir
>
> Does someone want to post the irc log somewhere.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Marc
>
> -- 
> fedora-docs-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe: 
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list
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[Karsten Wade]

On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 19:46 -0500, Eric H Christensen wrote:
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> Maybe on the Docs Project wiki page?

We could make DocsProject/Meetings/, designed after
DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings?  Could even [[Include()]] the
latter for completeness sake. :)

- Karsten
> Eric
>
> On Sun, Jan 20, 2008 at 09:30:06AM +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
> > On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 11:03 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote:
> > > List,
> > >
> > > few of us had a meeting over on irc and have agreed on a few things:
> > >
> > > 1] DUG looks good[1] (GNOME)
> > > 2] DUG (KDE) almost as good - may need some attention depending on what 
> > > KDE release goes in F9
> > > 3] New placeholder for AG conversion is
> > >
> > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AGBeta
> > >
> > > However, listed pages are still edited in their 'old' location:
> > >
> > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/$section
> > >
> > > As agreed, I have cleaned the AG of stuff that will not be included. 
> > > Pages that had content are now in Docs/Drafts and the references to 
> > > those that were empty are removed.
> > >
> > > The core group of 3-4 people have committed to early March completion of 
> > > the AG, more hands on deck are more than welcome.
> > >
> > > [1] - ready for wordsmithing / format fixing
> > >
> > > Vladimir
> >
> > Does someone want to post the irc log somewhere.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Marc
> >
> > -- 
> > fedora-docs-list mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > To unsubscribe: 
> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list
>
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[Marc Wiriadisastra]

<snip>

IRC meeting can be located at.

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MarcWiriadisastra

Those people who couldn't make it can have a quick read of it.

Cheers,

Marc

[Rahul Sundaram]

Vladimir Kosovac wrote:
> List,
>
> few of us had a meeting over on irc and have agreed on a few things:
>
> 1] DUG looks good[1] (GNOME)
> 2] DUG (KDE) almost as good - may need some attention depending on what 
> KDE release goes in F9

KDE 4 is the target

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureKDE4

Rahul

[Marc Wiriadisastra]

On Fri, 2008-01-25 at 16:03 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> Vladimir Kosovac wrote:
> > List,
> >
> > few of us had a meeting over on irc and have agreed on a few things:
> >
> > 1] DUG looks good[1] (GNOME)
> > 2] DUG (KDE) almost as good - may need some attention depending on what 
> > KDE release goes in F9
>
> KDE 4 is the target
>
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureKDE4
>
> Rahul

Yep I'm assuming it's not going to be significantly different. I'm
waiting for the beta release then we can alter the DuG to suit. The AG
shouldn't be an issue.

Cheers,

Marc

[Rahul Sundaram]

Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
> Yep I'm assuming it's not going to be significantly different. I'm
> waiting for the beta release then we can alter the DuG to suit. The AG
> shouldn't be an issue.

It is significantly different though I don't expect too much 
documentation changes. You probably can hang out in #fedora-kde for any 
questions and feedback.

Rahul

[Vladimir Kosovac]

Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
> > Yep I'm assuming it's not going to be significantly different. I'm
> > waiting for the beta release then we can alter the DuG to suit. The AG
> > shouldn't be an issue.
>
> It is significantly different though I don't expect too much 
> documentation changes. You probably can hang out in #fedora-kde for any 
> questions and feedback.

Yes it is. Marc, you may need to install rawhide - the interface is 
completely different from 3.X. And it's not only because of different 
screenshots - some important KDE apps are new, too.

Vladimir
> Rahul

[Marc Wiriadisastra]

On Sat, 2008-01-26 at 00:26 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote:
> Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
> > > Yep I'm assuming it's not going to be significantly different. I'm
> > > waiting for the beta release then we can alter the DuG to suit. The AG
> > > shouldn't be an issue.
> >
> > It is significantly different though I don't expect too much 
> > documentation changes. You probably can hang out in #fedora-kde for any 
> > questions and feedback.
>
> Yes it is. Marc, you may need to install rawhide - the interface is 
> completely different from 3.X. And it's not only because of different 
> screenshots - some important KDE apps are new, too.
>
> Vladimir
> > Rahul

I'm not touching rawhide with the amount of KDE deps that are broken at
the moment. I'll jump in when it's actually passed alpha.

Cheers,

Marc

[Eric Christensen]

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Do we know the deltas (differences) between KDE 3 and KDE 4, yet, and how the individual pieces of software will be changed?

Eric

On Fri, Jan 25, 2008 at 04:03:49PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> Vladimir Kosovac wrote:
> > List,
> >
> > few of us had a meeting over on irc and have agreed on a few things:
> >
> > 1] DUG looks good[1] (GNOME)
> > 2] DUG (KDE) almost as good - may need some attention depending on what 
> > KDE release goes in F9
>
> KDE 4 is the target
>
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureKDE4
>
> Rahul
>
> -- 
> fedora-docs-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list
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[Karsten Wade]

On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 11:03 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote:
> 1] DUG looks good[1] (GNOME)

...
> [1] - ready for wordsmithing / format fixing

Do you have a target for receiving these edits?

Let's put together a draft (strawman) schedule for these guides; John
will put it up against the rest of our schedule[1].

I can start on both of those this weekend; having a target schedule
helps me prioritize and split the work with other editors.

Anyone who wants to learn more about how we like to edit should watch
those pages.  In the wiki, go to Preferences, at the bottom in the
Watched pages use a regular expression to cover the whole namespace:

Docs/Drafts/AGBeta.*
...

For formatting fixes, we'll look for ways to slam across them with the
powers of Emacs/Vi and the wonders of regexp search and replace. :)
I've seen a few that I've let go in the interest of not breaking the
awesome flow that has been happening.  Easy enough to re-habit for the
next round. :)

Once that is done, the conversion to XML will also have a bunch of edits
to the wiki-produced XML.  Watching those commits (on
fedora-docs-commits) is another good learning experience.  Committing
editors are encouraged to be verbose in the comments since we have so
many new and interested eyes around us.

- Karsten

[Vladimir Kosovac]

Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote:
> On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 11:03 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote:
> > 1] DUG looks good[1] (GNOME)
>
> ...
> > [1] - ready for wordsmithing / format fixing
>
> Do you have a target for receiving these edits?

Target was set to beginning of March minus 10 days made up of 5 days 
edit + 5 days XML conversion. The assumption here is that the content is 
accurate enough and that it won't need major changes.

However, lot of missing/bad content went into both DUG and AG last week, 
so I think the target above was conservative. This should give us at 
least one more week for even major fixes, if required.
> Let's put together a draft (strawman) schedule for these guides; John
> will put it up against the rest of our schedule[1].

As it looks, the schedule is now probably needed for editors only:

1] Marc [DUG] and I [AG] are doing pretty much all of the writing ATM 
and have a pretty good handle of what's left

2] there is enough '''edit-ready''' content to start the editing effort now
> I can start on both of those this weekend; having a target schedule
> helps me prioritize and split the work with other editors.
>
> Anyone who wants to learn more about how we like to edit should watch
> those pages.  In the wiki, go to Preferences, at the bottom in the
> Watched pages use a regular expression to cover the whole namespace:
>
> Docs/Drafts/AGBeta.*
> ...

Would this track macroed inludes, too? Most sections are actually in 
Docs/Drafts/AG.
> For formatting fixes, we'll look for ways to slam across them with the
> powers of Emacs/Vi and the wonders of regexp search and replace. :)
> I've seen a few that I've let go in the interest of not breaking the
> awesome flow that has been happening.  Easy enough to re-habit for the
> next round. :)

The last two sections I've signed off (NTP server and IPtables in the 
AG) are, I think, better formatting wise than those done earlier. I'd be 
interested to find out whether this cuts the time spent on edit part and 
if so, how much.

*betterer than federer*, Vladimir
> Once that is done, the conversion to XML will also have a bunch of edits
> to the wiki-produced XML.  Watching those commits (on
> fedora-docs-commits) is another good learning experience.  Committing
> editors are encouraged to be verbose in the comments since we have so
> many new and interested eyes around us.
> Karsten

[Karsten Wade]

On Sat, 2008-01-26 at 10:19 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote:
> > Docs/Drafts/AGBeta.*
> > ...
>
> Would this track macroed inludes, too? Most sections are actually in 
> Docs/Drafts/AG.

No, it won't follow macro includes, if I understand Moin Moin correctly.

I thought AGBeta was a complete copy/fork for working over in advance of
the conversion to XML?  If not, what does it do?

- Karsten

[Vladimir Kosovac]

Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote:
> On Sat, 2008-01-26 at 10:19 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote:
> > > Docs/Drafts/AGBeta.*
> > > ...
> >
> > Would this track macroed inludes, too? Most sections are actually in 
> > Docs/Drafts/AG.
>
> No, it won't follow macro includes, if I understand Moin Moin correctly.
>
> I thought AGBeta was a complete copy/fork for working over in advance of
> the conversion to XML?

I was going to do that, when someone suggested include as a time-saver. 
It hadn't occur to me until your email that this might be an issue.

If not, what does it do?

Apparently, not much. Shouldn't be too difficult to put it to use, 
though. Do we want to move the whole thing or to keep Docs/Drafts/AG in 
place?

Vladimir
> Karsten

[Vladimir Kosovac]

Administration Guide, what would soon become release version, is now 
copied (does not contain include macro in individual sections) to:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AGBeta

This is where remaining sections are written and will be edited.

The old, Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide is still there. We need to 
decide what to do with it going forward.

Cheers, Vladimir

Vladimir Kosovac wrote:
> Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote:
> > On Sat, 2008-01-26 at 10:19 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote:
> > > > Docs/Drafts/AGBeta.*
> > > > ...
> > >
> > > Would this track macroed inludes, too? Most sections are actually in 
> > > Docs/Drafts/AG.
> >
> > No, it won't follow macro includes, if I understand Moin Moin correctly.
> >
> > I thought AGBeta was a complete copy/fork for working over in advance of
> > the conversion to XML?
>
> I was going to do that, when someone suggested include as a time-saver. 
> It hadn't occur to me until your email that this might be an issue.
>
> If not, what does it do?
>
> Apparently, not much. Shouldn't be too difficult to put it to use, 
> though. Do we want to move the whole thing or to keep Docs/Drafts/AG in 
> place?
>
> Vladimir
> > Karsten