Problem with a localized html version of FC6 release notes

[Nikos Charonitakis]

In a rawhide system with Greek locale there is a report that when a
user clicks on release notes link (welcome page) an English version of
release notes appears.
Although there is a html file containing Greek release notes, FireFox
opens the wrong file...
Is this a problem with other locales or Greek specific?
Can we do something?

Nikos

[Karsten Wade]

On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 01:28 +0300, Nikos Charonitakis wrote:
>  In a rawhide system with Greek locale there is a report that when a
>  user clicks on release notes link (welcome page) an English version of
>  release notes appears.
>  Although there is a html file containing Greek release notes, FireFox
>  opens the wrong file...
>  Is this a problem with other locales or Greek specific?
>  Can we do something? 
Paul may correct me here, but this is what I think is happening.

We were *not* able to make an 'adaptive index', meaning, one that would
detect the browser's language and load the localized welcome/homepage.

Instead we have included a paragraph in English with links to all
localized versions of the release notes.

Unfortunately, I forgot to uncomment this section before sending the
release notes off as a release candidate earlier this week.  This has
been fixed in CVS and should appear in subsequent builds of the package.
It certainly is going to appear in the ISO.

This whole situation is not optimal, but it is what we could do given
the time available. :)

- Karsten
-- 
Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor    ^     Fedora Documentation Project 
 Sr. Developer Relations Mgr.     |  fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject
   quaid.108.redhat.com           |          gpg key: AD0E0C41
////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

[Dimitris Glezos]

Karsten Wade wrote:
>  On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 01:28 +0300, Nikos Charonitakis wrote:
> > In a rawhide system with Greek locale there is a report that when a
> > user clicks on release notes link (welcome page) an English version of
> > release notes appears.
> > Although there is a html file containing Greek release notes, FireFox
> > opens the wrong file...
> > Is this a problem with other locales or Greek specific?
> > Can we do something?
>  
>  Paul may correct me here, but this is what I think is happening.
>  
>  We were *not* able to make an 'adaptive index', meaning, one that would
>  detect the browser's language and load the localized welcome/homepage.
>  
>  Instead we have included a paragraph in English with links to all
>  localized versions of the release notes. 
Karsten,

I think it would be a good idea to include a similar paragraph in 
english with links to all localized versions *of the splash page* too.

We have these pages localized, so why not give the user the choice 
(preferably, at the top of the page) to view them?

-d

>  Unfortunately, I forgot to uncomment this section before sending the
>  release notes off as a release candidate earlier this week.  This has
>  been fixed in CVS and should appear in subsequent builds of the package.
>  It certainly is going to appear in the ISO.
>  
>  This whole situation is not optimal, but it is what we could do given
>  the time available. :)
>  
>  - Karsten
>   

-- 
Dimitris Glezos
Jabber ID: glezos(a)jabber.org, PGP: 0xA5A04C3B
http://dimitris.glezos.com/

"He who gives up functionality for ease of use
loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous)
--

[Karsten Wade]

On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 17:22 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote:

>  I think it would be a good idea to include a similar paragraph in 
>  english with links to all localized versions *of the splash page* too. 
D'oh!  That would have been a good idea. :)

Do you feel like fixing the page to do that in CVS?  Seems like a bug in
the RC notes to not have such a link. :)  Maybe at the top of the page?

- Karsten
>  We have these pages localized, so why not give the user the choice 
>  (preferably, at the top of the page) to view them?
>  
>  -d
>  
>  > Unfortunately, I forgot to uncomment this section before sending the
>  > release notes off as a release candidate earlier this week.  This has
>  > been fixed in CVS and should appear in subsequent builds of the package.
>  > It certainly is going to appear in the ISO.
>  > 
>  > This whole situation is not optimal, but it is what we could do given
>  > the time available. :)
>  > 
>  > - Karsten
>  > 
>  
>  
>  -- 
>  Dimitris Glezos
>  Jabber ID: glezos(a)jabber.org, PGP: 0xA5A04C3B
>  http://dimitris.glezos.com/
>  
>  "He who gives up functionality for ease of use
>  loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous)
>  --
>   
-- 
Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor    ^     Fedora Documentation Project 
 Sr. Developer Relations Mgr.     |  fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject
   quaid.108.redhat.com           |          gpg key: AD0E0C41
////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

[Paul W. Frields]

On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 09:34 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote:
>  On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 17:22 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote:
>  
>  > I think it would be a good idea to include a similar paragraph in 
>  > english with links to all localized versions *of the splash page* too.
>  
>  D'oh!  That would have been a good idea. :)
>  
>  Do you feel like fixing the page to do that in CVS?  Seems like a bug in
>  the RC notes to not have such a link. :)  Maybe at the top of the page? 
I think I have this fixed.  Should be in the ISO!

-- 
Paul W. Frields, RHCE                          http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
       Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board
    Fedora Docs Project:  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject

[Dimitris Glezos]

Paul W. Frields wrote:
>  On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 09:34 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote:
> > On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 17:22 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote:
> >
> >> I think it would be a good idea to include a similar paragraph in 
> >> english with links to all localized versions *of the splash page* too.
> > D'oh!  That would have been a good idea. :)
> >
> > Do you feel like fixing the page to do that in CVS?  Seems like a bug in
> > the RC notes to not have such a link. :)  Maybe at the top of the page?
>  
>  I think I have this fixed.  Should be in the ISO! 
Great! Thanks Paul.

Hopefully after FC6 I will have time to investigate more the adaptive 
index issue. I have some ideas, like storing the user's preference in a 
cookie, since Firefox doesn't honor us with properly returning the 
user's locale.

-d


-- 
Dimitris Glezos
Jabber ID: glezos(a)jabber.org, PGP: 0xA5A04C3B
http://dimitris.glezos.com/

"He who gives up functionality for ease of use
loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous)
--

[Dimitris Glezos]

O/H Paul W. Frields έγραψε:
>  On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 09:34 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote:
> > On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 17:22 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote:
> >
> >> I think it would be a good idea to include a similar paragraph in 
> >> english with links to all localized versions *of the splash page* too.
> > D'oh!  That would have been a good idea. :)
> >
> > Do you feel like fixing the page to do that in CVS?  Seems like a bug in
> > the RC notes to not have such a link. :)  Maybe at the top of the page?
>  
>  I think I have this fixed.  Should be in the ISO! 
BTW. If we have the string "This page is available in Lang1, Lang2, ..."
localized and someone follows a link to a language he can't understand, he won't
be able to understand the sentence to click his own language link and return
back. :)

Thankfully, our current context makes this not a problem. Since it is a browser
page, he could easily press the browser's Back button, the Home button or even
restart the browser.

-dim


-- 
Dimitris Glezos
Jabber ID: glezos(a)jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B
http://dimitris.glezos.com/

"He who gives up functionality for ease of use
loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous)
--

[Karsten Wade]

On Tue, 2006-10-10 at 00:43 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote:

>  BTW. If we have the string "This page is available in Lang1,
> Lang2, ..."
>  localized and someone follows a link to a language he can't understand, he won't
>  be able to understand the sentence to click his own language link and return
>  back. :)
>  
>  Thankfully, our current context makes this not a problem. Since it is a browser
>  page, he could easily press the browser's Back button, the Home button or even
>  restart the browser. 
Yeah, we definitely have some usability to polish here. :)

Once FC6 is out, we can set a date to do an update for
fedora-release-notes and get a whole bag full of stuff fixed or updated:

* Add small fixes to RELEASE-NOTES.pot
  - Colophon
  - homepage links to lang-specific notes in that language
  - links back

Let's talk about sync'ing the Web-only update and this package update.  

With all the work we've been doing and the very small number of changes
in the Wiki, I'm thinking we might want to post on the Web the same
notes as in the ISO, and put all of our energies on producing a single
update (package + Web) a few weeks following.

- Karsten

-- 
Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor    ^     Fedora Documentation Project 
 Sr. Developer Relations Mgr.     |  fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject
   quaid.108.redhat.com           |          gpg key: AD0E0C41
////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

[Dimitris Glezos]

O/H Karsten Wade έγραψε:
>  On Tue, 2006-10-10 at 00:43 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote:
>  
> > BTW. If we have the string "This page is available in Lang1, Lang2, ..."
> > localized and someone follows a link to a language he can't understand, he
> won't
> > be able to understand the sentence to click his own language link and return
> > back. :)
> >
> > Thankfully, our current context makes this not a problem. Since it is a browser
> > page, he could easily press the browser's Back button, the Home button or even
> > restart the browser.
>  
>  Yeah, we definitely have some usability to polish here. :) 
OK, I *might* have some good news on this, I need to investigate it a bit more:
It is proabable that the Firefox2 RPMs will return the correct locale and the
adaptive index will work. Yay!

>  Once FC6 is out, we can set a date to do an update for
>  fedora-release-notes and get a whole bag full of stuff fixed or updated:
>  
>  * Add small fixes to RELEASE-NOTES.pot
>    - Colophon
>    - homepage links to lang-specific notes in that language
>    - links back
>  
>  Let's talk about sync'ing the Web-only update and this package update. 
+1. Since we can update the relnotes package there is no reason to have
different versions on the disk and the web.

I would even suggest to remove the ISO HTML from the net because couting that we
could have 3 (!) versions of the same document hanging around (iso, user, web).
Since it is just for reference purposes, we could have it as a downloadable gz
file for those who need *that* instead of the updated version. This way we will
have only one HTML hanging around: the web/local synced one.

-d


>  
>  With all the work we've been doing and the very small number of changes
>  in the Wiki, I'm thinking we might want to post on the Web the same
>  notes as in the ISO, and put all of our energies on producing a single
>  update (package + Web) a few weeks following.
>  
>  - Karsten
>   
-- 
Dimitris Glezos
Jabber ID: glezos(a)jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B
http://dimitris.glezos.com/

"He who gives up functionality for ease of use
loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous)
--

[Dimitris Glezos]

O/H Karsten Wade έγραψε:
>  On Mon, 2006-10-09 at 01:28 +0300, Nikos Charonitakis wrote:
> > In a rawhide system with Greek locale there is a report that when a
> > user clicks on release notes link (welcome page) an English version of
> > release notes appears.
> > Although there is a html file containing Greek release notes, FireFox
> > opens the wrong file...
> > Is this a problem with other locales or Greek specific?
> > Can we do something?
>  
>  Paul may correct me here, but this is what I think is happening.
>  
>  We were *not* able to make an 'adaptive index', meaning, one that would
>  detect the browser's language and load the localized welcome/homepage. 
I have some good news on this front.

> From RC2, Firefox 2 returns the correct language depending on the
> locale and the 
adaptive index will work as expected.

You can try it yourself using the remi RPM, which has some languages loaded (en,
de, es, fr, it, ru):

  http://remi.collet.free.fr/index.php?2006/10/09/212-firefox-2-rc2

Thanks to Kostas Papadimas for the tip on `fedora-trans-el`.

-d


>  
>  Instead we have included a paragraph in English with links to all
>  localized versions of the release notes.
>  
>  Unfortunately, I forgot to uncomment this section before sending the
>  release notes off as a release candidate earlier this week.  This has
>  been fixed in CVS and should appear in subsequent builds of the package.
>  It certainly is going to appear in the ISO.
>  
>  This whole situation is not optimal, but it is what we could do given
>  the time available. :)
>  
>  - Karsten
>   
-- 
Dimitris Glezos
Jabber ID: glezos(a)jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B
http://dimitris.glezos.com/

"He who gives up functionality for ease of use
loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous)
--