Does anyone have an opinion on moving the current Docs Project wiki page to Category:Docs Project? It would allow a one stop shop, basically, but I don't really see it as a need.
Thoughts?
--Eric
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 1:14 PM, Eric Christensen eric@christensenplace.us wrote:
Does anyone have an opinion on moving the current Docs Project wiki page to Category:Docs Project? It would allow a one stop shop, basically, but I don't really see it as a need.
Thoughts?
At the moment I think there is too much stuff on Docs Project page to just move it to the Category. If it gets trimmed down and sub category names are obvious about where to get more information then sure...
I am more interested in seeing the Category:Docs Project cleaned up - and especially if that is the "main" entry point. It currently has 133 pages in it (and 28 subcategories). I went looking for the guides table so I could find a link to whatever I reviewed for somebody and had to sift through a lot of noise. There are a lot of pages that are in sub categories AND the main category that I think should just be in a sub category - a few meeting related items, several events and hackfest notes, a bunch of guide pages (or draft guide pages), and mostly the RN beats...
I would also like to see a name change to RH Beats - I don't think it encourages enough outside contribution. As I understand it the beats name came when there are a writer patrolling and adding content for that subject (beat). That was also a time when the content stayed in the wiki until the final move to be packaged. Currently I think the "beat writers" are writing in docbook directly and others can see that with the regular draft builds and add to the notes with bug report, email, or the wiki beats pages. So if the the wiki pages were RN contributions or Release Notes Staging for <oldbeatname> it might be easier for a new contributor to find a place to add a paragraph about the new features of their favorite app or updated package submission.
Those are some of my thoughts...
-Susan
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 02:25:41PM -0500, Susan Lauber wrote:
At the moment I think there is too much stuff on Docs Project page to just move it to the Category. If it gets trimmed down and sub category names are obvious about where to get more information then sure...
I am more interested in seeing the Category:Docs Project cleaned up - and especially if that is the "main" entry point. It currently has 133 pages in it (and 28 subcategories). I went looking for the guides table so I could find a link to whatever I reviewed for somebody and had to sift through a lot of noise. There are a lot of pages that are in sub categories AND the main category that I think should just be in a sub category - a few meeting related items, several events and hackfest notes, a bunch of guide pages (or draft guide pages), and mostly the RN beats...
+1 from the wiki czar. If confusion will increase (from anybody), don't do it.
On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 19:17 -0600, Ian Weller wrote:
On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 02:25:41PM -0500, Susan Lauber wrote:
At the moment I think there is too much stuff on Docs Project page to just move it to the Category. If it gets trimmed down and sub category names are obvious about where to get more information then sure...
I am more interested in seeing the Category:Docs Project cleaned up - and especially if that is the "main" entry point. It currently has 133 pages in it (and 28 subcategories). I went looking for the guides table so I could find a link to whatever I reviewed for somebody and had to sift through a lot of noise. There are a lot of pages that are in sub categories AND the main category that I think should just be in a sub category - a few meeting related items, several events and hackfest notes, a bunch of guide pages (or draft guide pages), and mostly the RN beats...
+1 from the wiki czar. If confusion will increase (from anybody), don't do it.
So we clearly have an organizational problem. I agree that there is way too much stuff out there. From a management point of view I literally live off of the "Docs Project meetings" page. I've almost made it a dashboard of items that I need. So I don't actually sift through much of the other noise that's out there. But if people can't find something that is actually there then that's a problem.
If I were to clean up the Docs Project pages I'd want to go through the Documentation category and clean it up/out. If information has been moved to Docbook then it can be archived. Draft documentation needs to be brought to light. New people want something to do, here's a great chance to get involved. Docs Project category... what's even in there? What do we really need in there? What's missing?
I know... more questions, not enough answers. If I can catch up on my to do list I'll take a peek in there.
--Eric
----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Christensen" eric@christensenplace.us To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" fedora-docs-list@redhat.com Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 11:25 PM Subject: Re: Moving Docs Project to Category:Docs Project
So I don't actually sift through much of the other noise that's out there. But if people can't find something that is actually there then that's a problem.
We need to take a harder look at what we want to do. When we got rid of the hierarchical naming so that "search could work", we changed "hard to find" into "impossible to find". And search is just as hopeless as it ever was.
Susan mentioned a hundred and some pages in the Docs_Project category. That is a lot, but not totally unmanageable. Unfortunately, I suspect not all relevant pages are in the category. And, really, there are enough pages in the category that it is hard to find what you need.
We already have a lot of subcategories; probably too many. Unfortunately, many pages, especially newer pages, aren't in the appropriate subcategory. That failure makes the subcategories mostly useless since they become repositories for documents you don't want to see, kind of like search.
If we had a SMALL number of relevant subcategories, our odds of getting a page into the appropriate subcategory would increase. As it is we are lucky to remember to put something into the project category. The odds of knowing what the appropriate subcategory might be are vanishingly small.
On top of that, I'm afraid we need a more aggressive wiki gardening effort.
Just some thoughts
--McD
On Sat, 2009-11-21 at 07:57 -0500, John J. McDonough wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Christensen" eric@christensenplace.us To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" fedora-docs-list@redhat.com Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 11:25 PM Subject: Re: Moving Docs Project to Category:Docs Project
So I don't actually sift through much of the other noise that's out there. But if people can't find something that is actually there then that's a problem.
We need to take a harder look at what we want to do. When we got rid of the hierarchical naming so that "search could work", we changed "hard to find" into "impossible to find". And search is just as hopeless as it ever was.
Susan mentioned a hundred and some pages in the Docs_Project category. That is a lot, but not totally unmanageable. Unfortunately, I suspect not all relevant pages are in the category. And, really, there are enough pages in the category that it is hard to find what you need.
We already have a lot of subcategories; probably too many. Unfortunately, many pages, especially newer pages, aren't in the appropriate subcategory. That failure makes the subcategories mostly useless since they become repositories for documents you don't want to see, kind of like search.
If we had a SMALL number of relevant subcategories, our odds of getting a page into the appropriate subcategory would increase. As it is we are lucky to remember to put something into the project category. The odds of knowing what the appropriate subcategory might be are vanishingly small.
On top of that, I'm afraid we need a more aggressive wiki gardening effort.
Just some thoughts
--McD
Okay, so what categories do we need?
Docs Project Documentation Draft Documentation Docs Project Management? Docs Project SOP -> Docs Project Management Docs Project archives -> Archives Docs Project content tasks for experienced contributors Docs Project content tasks for new contributors Docs Project how to Docs Project meeting logs REMOVE Docs Project meetings Docs Project policies -> Docs Project Management Docs Project process -> ? Docs Project roles -> ? Docs Project tasks -> Docs Project ? Docs Project tools -> Docs Project ? Documentation CMS Option -> Archive Documentation Guide -> Docs Project how to Documentation beats Documentation tools -> Docs Project tools FDSCo -> ? Improving the Docs Project workflow -> ? Release Notes -> Draft Documentation SELinux Docs -> Archive? (Check with Radsy) Software Management Guide -> Archive? User Guide -> Archive
Those are all the categories that are currently attached to Docs Project. If we can move stuff around here it might help clear out some of the noise. Maybe Ian can run Wikibot around to clean up this stuff, too.
Some of these categories are empty, by the way.
--Eric
On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 10:33:38AM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote:
Maybe Ian can run Wikibot around to clean up this stuff, too.
If it can be scripted, it can be done (usually).
So we clearly have an organizational problem. I agree that there is way too much stuff out there. From a management point of view I literally live off of the "Docs Project meetings" page. I've almost made it a dashboard of items that I need. So I don't actually sift through much of the other noise that's out there. But if people can't find something that is actually there then that's a problem.
I'm curious whether this might actually be something that could be tackled well in a sprint - not necessarily a full-blown FAD, but a few hours during which a bunch of Docs folks run through through this online and do enough cleanup that it's clear to any casual passerby what the wiki should look like at 100% completion[1] and what remains to make it look that way.
A contingent of new-to-Docs-team-but-who-know-their-way-around-wiki-editing folks would probably be helpful from a "let's check out what information's findable and discoverable by people who don't already live in this section of the wiki" perspective.
Random idea.
--Mel
[1] ...asymptotically reached ;)
On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 22:41 -0600, Mel Chua wrote:
So we clearly have an organizational problem. I agree that there is way too much stuff out there. From a management point of view I literally live off of the "Docs Project meetings" page. I've almost made it a dashboard of items that I need. So I don't actually sift through much of the other noise that's out there. But if people can't find something that is actually there then that's a problem.
I'm curious whether this might actually be something that could be tackled well in a sprint - not necessarily a full-blown FAD, but a few hours during which a bunch of Docs folks run through through this online and do enough cleanup that it's clear to any casual passerby what the wiki should look like at 100% completion[1] and what remains to make it look that way.
A contingent of new-to-Docs-team-but-who-know-their-way-around-wiki-editing folks would probably be helpful from a "let's check out what information's findable and discoverable by people who don't already live in this section of the wiki" perspective.
Random idea.
--Mel
[1] ...asymptotically reached ;)
Mel, I got through a lot of the Docs pages the other day. This was basically the pages that were in Category:Docs Project. We still need to go through the other categories and see if those pages are still appropriately categorized and if anything needs to go to the Archive:.
Last year we had a virtual FUDCon over the holidays where we had some teaching classes and some working periods. Maybe we can do the same thing this year.
--Eric
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Eric Christensen -
Ian Weller -
John J. McDonough -
Mel Chua -
Susan Lauber