Updated Server Guide for Fedora Core 5

[Miles Brennan]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


Hi all,

I wrote the "Linux Home Server HOWTO" which is located at
http://www.brennan.id.au, and I have just recently updated the
documentation for Fedora Core 5, this was an extensive rewrite (with
further additional info) for many chapters.

The HOWTO is approx 20 chapters which covers all aspects of setting up
FC as a home gateway server as a step-by-step guide for beginners to
intermediates - yum, bind (with DDNS update conf), ntpd, dhcpd, squid,
sendmail, dovecot, spamassassin, clamav (and milter), vsftpd, cups,
sshd, mysqld, samba, nfs (and V4), and ldap etc... and a chapter
explaining the concepts of iptables/firewall configs.

I wanted to move this HOWTO into the docs project last year, however
with work commitments I did not have the time to update it for FC4 (sorry).

I would like some feedback on the updated HOWTO if need be, or it's
suitability within the docs project area.

I have created an account on the wiki - MilesBrennan (no write access yet).


Regards,
Miles Brennan


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[Paul W. Frields]

On Fri, 2006-06-30 at 16:05 +1000, Miles Brennan wrote:
>  I wrote the "Linux Home Server HOWTO" which is located at
>  http://www.brennan.id.au, and I have just recently updated the
>  documentation for Fedora Core 5, this was an extensive rewrite (with
>  further additional info) for many chapters.
>  
>  The HOWTO is approx 20 chapters which covers all aspects of setting up
>  FC as a home gateway server as a step-by-step guide for beginners to
>  intermediates - yum, bind (with DDNS update conf), ntpd, dhcpd, squid,
>  sendmail, dovecot, spamassassin, clamav (and milter), vsftpd, cups,
>  sshd, mysqld, samba, nfs (and V4), and ldap etc... and a chapter
>  explaining the concepts of iptables/firewall configs.
>  
>  I wanted to move this HOWTO into the docs project last year, however
>  with work commitments I did not have the time to update it for FC4 (sorry).
>  
>  I would like some feedback on the updated HOWTO if need be, or it's
>  suitability within the docs project area.
>  
>  I have created an account on the wiki - MilesBrennan (no write access yet). 
Hi Miles.  I took a quick look at your extensive (and commendable!)
work, and had the following constructive observations:

1.  The document is licensed as CC BY-NC-SA, so you would need to
relicense it as OPL 1.0 [2] for the Fedora Documentation Project to use
it.

2.  The document would benefit from style editing.  If you are
interested in improving the readability of your document, check a good
style manual, or even a simple Linux community one like the GNOME
Documentation Style Guidelines [1].  If you join the FDP and relicense
the doc for use here, I would be happy to work with you on this.

3.  I would be inclined to drop the chapter on installation, since it
substantially duplicates what's already in our official Installation
Guide.  (Suggestions for improvements to the IG are, as always,
gratefully accepted, filed as bugs in Bugzilla.)

This doc would also benefit from some technical input from additional
community members.  I saw a number of opportunities for clarifications
and corrections during my brief skimming of a couple of chapters.  If
you are interested in bringing this doc into FDP, we'd love to have you
aboard.

Please take a look at:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/NewWriters

...for a checklist on where to start.  If you need any help, this list
is the right place to post, or come to IRC #fedora-docs where there are
usually several contributors at any point during the day or night.


-- 
Paul W. Frields, RHCE                          http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
     Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board
 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/

[Paul W. Frields]

Sorry to reply to myself, but in all my editorial blustering and
buffoonery, I not only mixed up my footnote ordering while revising my
reply, but failed to actually include the footnote URLs at all. :-(
(Something tells me a better email composer would help here.)  Here they
are, with the antecedents included:

>  1.  The document is licensed as CC BY-NC-SA, so you would need to
>  relicense it as OPL 1.0 [2] for the Fedora Documentation Project to use
>  it. 
[2] http://opencontent.org/openpub/

>  2.  The document would benefit from style editing.  If you are
>  interested in improving the readability of your document, check a good
>  style manual, or even a simple Linux community one like the GNOME
>  Documentation Style Guidelines [1].  If you join the FDP and relicense
>  the doc for use here, I would be happy to work with you on this. 
[1] http://developer.gnome.org/documents/style-guide/index.html

-- 
Paul W. Frields, RHCE                          http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
     Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board
 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/

[Basil Copeland]

I've used earlier versions of this document.  It is certainly good "as is,"
but if brought into the FDP and edited along the lines suggested by Paul, it
would get better.  I know that's asking for more out of the author, but with
the proffer of help from Paul and others, maybe it wouldn't be too much to
ask.

On 6/30/06, Paul W. Frields <stickster(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  Sorry to reply to myself, but in all my editorial blustering and
>  buffoonery, I not only mixed up my footnote ordering while revising my
>  reply, but failed to actually include the footnote URLs at all. :-(
>  (Something tells me a better email composer would help here.)  Here they
>  are, with the antecedents included:
>
>  > 1.  The document is licensed as CC BY-NC-SA, so you would need to
>  > relicense it as OPL 1.0 [2] for the Fedora Documentation Project to use
>  > it.
>
>  [2] http://opencontent.org/openpub/
>
>  > 2.  The document would benefit from style editing.  If you are
>  > interested in improving the readability of your document, check a good
>  > style manual, or even a simple Linux community one like the GNOME
>  > Documentation Style Guidelines [1].  If you join the FDP and relicense
>  > the doc for use here, I would be happy to work with you on this.
>
>  [1] http://developer.gnome.org/documents/style-guide/index.html
>
>  --
>  Paul W. Frields, RHCE                          http://paul.frields.org/
>    gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
>       Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board
>  Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/
>
>
> >  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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>
>  --
>  fedora-docs-list mailing list
>  fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com
>  To unsubscribe:
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list
>
>

[Timothy Murphy]

Paul W. Frields wrote:

>  On Fri, 2006-06-30 at 16:05 +1000, Miles Brennan wrote:
> > I wrote the "Linux Home Server HOWTO" which is located at
> > http://www.brennan.id.au, and I have just recently updated the
> > documentation for Fedora Core 5, this was an extensive rewrite (with
> > further additional info) for many chapters.
> > 
> > The HOWTO is approx 20 chapters which covers all aspects of setting up
> > FC as a home gateway server as a step-by-step guide for beginners to
> > intermediates - yum, bind (with DDNS update conf), ntpd, dhcpd, squid,
> > sendmail, dovecot, spamassassin, clamav (and milter), vsftpd, cups,
> > sshd, mysqld, samba, nfs (and V4), and ldap etc... and a chapter
> > explaining the concepts of iptables/firewall configs. 
>  Hi Miles.  I took a quick look at your extensive (and commendable!)
>  work, and had the following constructive observations:
>  
>  1.  The document is licensed as CC BY-NC-SA, so you would need to
>  relicense it as OPL 1.0 [2] for the Fedora Documentation Project to use
>  it.
>  
>  2.  The document would benefit from style editing. 
While I don't disagree with your comments,
I would be much more enthusiastic about this document.

I haven't read it carefully,
but at a first glance it looked like exactly what I needed
a few months ago, when setting up apache, etc, on my desktop.

I haven't seen a similar document elsewhere.



-- 
Timothy Murphy  
e-mail (<80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie
tel: [phone]
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

[Paul W. Frields]

On Sat, 2006-07-01 at 15:29 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote:
>  Paul W. Frields wrote:
>  
>  > On Fri, 2006-06-30 at 16:05 +1000, Miles Brennan wrote:
>  >> I wrote the "Linux Home Server HOWTO" which is located at
>  >> http://www.brennan.id.au, and I have just recently updated the
>  >> documentation for Fedora Core 5, this was an extensive rewrite (with
>  >> further additional info) for many chapters.
>  >> 
>  >> The HOWTO is approx 20 chapters which covers all aspects of setting up
>  >> FC as a home gateway server as a step-by-step guide for beginners to
>  >> intermediates - yum, bind (with DDNS update conf), ntpd, dhcpd, squid,
>  >> sendmail, dovecot, spamassassin, clamav (and milter), vsftpd, cups,
>  >> sshd, mysqld, samba, nfs (and V4), and ldap etc... and a chapter
>  >> explaining the concepts of iptables/firewall configs.
>  
>  > Hi Miles.  I took a quick look at your extensive (and commendable!)
>  > work, and had the following constructive observations:
>  > 
>  > 1.  The document is licensed as CC BY-NC-SA, so you would need to
>  > relicense it as OPL 1.0 [2] for the Fedora Documentation Project to use
>  > it.
>  > 
>  > 2.  The document would benefit from style editing.
>  
>  While I don't disagree with your comments,
>  I would be much more enthusiastic about this document. 
I did use the word "commendable" in there somewhere... ;-)  These days,
I usually withhold my more blatant and gushing enthusiasm until such
time as additional folks step up to help whip these documents into
fighting shape.  Looking at our contributor list[1], I see a lot of
names that popped up for roughly five minutes on the mailing list and
then were never seen again.

Would you be interested in joining in the effort[2]?  Your enthusiasm
could be contagious if followed up with some elbow grease!  :-)

= = =
[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors 
[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/NewWriters 

-- 
Paul W. Frields, RHCE                          http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
     Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board
 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/

[Miles Brennan]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Paul W. Frields wrote:
> >> 1.  The document is licensed as CC BY-NC-SA, so you would
> need to
> >> relicense it as OPL 1.0 [2] for the Fedora Documentation Project to use
> >> it. 
I've had a read of the OPL, am I able to choose options with the license?

> >>
> >> 2.  The document would benefit from style editing.
> > While I don't disagree with your comments,
> > I would be much more enthusiastic about this document.
>  
That's ok, I knew what Paul meant.

>  I did use the word "commendable" in there somewhere... ;-) 
> These days, 
I did note that ;-)  thank you.

>  I usually withhold my more blatant and gushing enthusiasm until such
>  time as additional folks step up to help whip these documents into
>  fighting shape.  Looking at our contributor list[1], I see a lot of
>  names that popped up for roughly five minutes on the mailing list and
>  then were never seen again.
>  
>  Would you be interested in joining in the effort[2]?  Your enthusiasm
>  could be contagious if followed up with some elbow grease!  :-)
>  
>  = = =
>  [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors 
>  [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/NewWriters 
>  
>   
The document didn't get submitted last year because I didn't have time
to bring it up to the latest version (FC4) and to then start preparing
for the next revision before it's scheduled release.

May I suggest that we possibly prepare this document "as is" for FC5,
obvioulsy fixing any major technicalities, and then start working on the
next revision ready for the final release of FC6. This may also allow me
time to finish off the extra 3 chapters on my TODO list.

My wiki account is "MilesBrennan" and my cvsdocs is "mbrennan"
(waiting
approval).
I hope you have a good backup, I have used neither of these before ;-)


Regards,
Miles
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[Patrick W. Barnes]

On Sunday 02 July 2006 07:34, Miles Brennan <miles(a)brennan.id.au&gt; wrote:
>  Paul W. Frields wrote:
>  >>> 1.  The document is licensed as CC BY-NC-SA, so you would need to
>  >>> relicense it as OPL 1.0 [2] for the Fedora Documentation Project to use
>  >>> it.
>
>  I've had a read of the OPL, am I able to choose options with the license? 
No.  All documents within the Fedora Documentation Project are licensed under 
the OPL 1.0 without options.  More on our licensing and other legal details 
can be found in the Legal section of the wiki:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal

If you have questions about the license or why we use it, feel free to ask.

>  The document didn't get submitted last year because I didn't
> have time
>  to bring it up to the latest version (FC4) and to then start preparing
>  for the next revision before it's scheduled release.
>
>  May I suggest that we possibly prepare this document "as is" for FC5,
>  obvioulsy fixing any major technicalities, and then start working on the
>  next revision ready for the final release of FC6. This may also allow me
>  time to finish off the extra 3 chapters on my TODO list. 
We have plenty of draft documents that are completely accessible to the 
public.  This could join them in its current form.  We can work on preparing 
it for FC6 and can move it to a published state whenever it is ready.

>  My wiki account is "MilesBrennan" and my cvsdocs is "mbrennan"
> (waiting
>  approval).
>  I hope you have a good backup, I have used neither of these before ;-)
>  
The beauty of both of these is that they provide revision control.  We can fix 
almost any screw-up.  Still, we'd be happy to answer any questions before you 
have to resort to experimentation.

I've added you to the wiki's EditGroup, which should be enough to get you 
started.  If you agree to the licensing, we can further develop your document 
in the wiki before we even begin to worry about CVS.

-- 
Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes
nman64(a)n-man.com

http://www.n-man.com/

LinkedIn:
http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64

Have I been helpful?  Rate my assistance!
http://rate.affero.net/nman64/
--

Wireless Guide / NTFS Guide / New writing

[Adam Moreland]

Hey all,

Reading some of these posts on a server guide [Re: Updated Server Guide for 
Fedora Core 5], i would like to submit, or rather enquire as to the validity 
of adding a guide on wireless internet installation using ndiswrapper, and 
also touch on some of the built in wireless support, such as IPW2200...

I have written recently, and refined, a guide for Fedora Core 5, for the 
installation and configuration of a wireless network using ndiswrapper, that 
includes how to configure WEP/WPA/TKIP security encryption, and how to 
install ndiswrapper using yum and repos, manual compiles, and from cvs.

This guide has been the culmination of extensive work, based on problmes 
many many people have with wireless internet, and using ndiswrapper. In fact 
most dont even know what ndiswrapper is, or what it does, let alone how to 
use it. To date, i have yet to see any official fedora instructions for this 
type of problem, and only scattered wiki pages that are often mish mashed 
together on [1].

My wireless guide is written in HTML, and is viewable here [2] and is 
detailed and split into sections, for ease of reading. If some one can have 
a look over this guide. I would cleans this guide up, and re-write in the 
third person, should this guide be of use as an official document. I already 
have had my guide linked to a number of times by various places, including 
fedoraforum.org, and also [3] fedorazine.

[1]http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net
[2]http://www.manix-place.co.uk/wireless.html
[3]http://www.fedorazine.com

I feel this guide could help many more fedora users, and could do with being 
made "official", given the lack of information on the web about wireless 
unless you know what you are looking for, and how to use it. This guide 
simplifies the mass of information into 7 sections that guide you through 
preparations to installations and finally configurations, with 
troubleshooting, and useful links sections. POlease feel free to comment on 
this and let me know what can be done about making this official.

And further, with respect to this:
> I usually withhold my more blatant and gushing enthusiasm until such
> time as additional folks step up to help whip these documents into
> fighting shape.  Looking at our contributor list[1], I see a lot of
> names that popped up for roughly five minutes on the mailing list and
> then were never seen again.
>
> Would you be interested in joining in the effort[2]?  Your enthusiasm
> could be contagious if followed up with some elbow grease!  :-)
>
> = = =
> [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors [2] 
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/NewWriters
>  
i have been involved as much as i can, admittidly not as much as i had 
hoped, but i actually never thought this guide, or anything else could be of 
use. I have an NTFS guide on the same website (listed in my sig) should this 
also be of any use, and have many more lined up, which is why i have not 
been as active. However i have been trying to edit wikis in the games 
sections as often as i can, and work with the docs projects. I am eager to 
write more and could to with some guidance from those more experienced. I am 
also not adverse to elbow grease, so i think you will enjoy the final 
products i produce, under the right guidance and criticisms.

Sorry for the extensive reply, and i hope someone can help guide me, and 
comment on this work??

Mr Adam L Moreland (MAniX) | Registered Linux User: #417406
BA (Hons) Media Studies, 2nd Year, UoN
WEB: http://www.manix-place.co.uk
BLOG:http://www.2welshmen-and-a-sheep.co.uk
****
System: Pentium 4 SKT478 2.8GHz Precott, AMD Athlon XP-M 2800+ | GPG Key: 
AC230C32
****
pub 1024D/AC230C32 2006-05-21
Key fingerprint = 14F4 50F5 806C 25A5 B33C C2BF 982C 87B7 AC23 0C32
uid Adam Moreland (MAniX)
sub 2048g/A471FCE7 2006-05-21
****




> From: Miles Brennan <miles(a)brennan.id.au&gt;
> Reply-To: For participants of the Documentation Project 
> <fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com&gt;
> To: For participants of the Documentation Project 
> <fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com&gt;
> Subject: Re: Updated Server Guide for Fedora Core 5
> Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 22:34:11 +1000
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Paul W. Frields wrote:
>  >>> 1.  The document is licensed as CC BY-NC-SA, so you would need to
>  >>> relicense it as OPL 1.0 [2] for the Fedora Documentation Project to 
> use
>  >>> it.
>
> I've had a read of the OPL, am I able to choose options with the license?
>
>  >>>
>  >>> 2.  The document would benefit from style editing.
>  >> While I don't disagree with your comments,
>  >> I would be much more enthusiastic about this document.
>  >
>
> That's ok, I knew what Paul meant.
>
>  > I did use the word "commendable" in there somewhere... ;-)  These days,
>
> I did note that ;-)  thank you.
>
>  > I usually withhold my more blatant and gushing enthusiasm until such
>  > time as additional folks step up to help whip these documents into
>  > fighting shape.  Looking at our contributor list[1], I see a lot of
>  > names that popped up for roughly five minutes on the mailing list and
>  > then were never seen again.
>  >
>  > Would you be interested in joining in the effort[2]?  Your enthusiasm
>  > could be contagious if followed up with some elbow grease!  :-)
>  >
>  > = = =
>  > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors
>  > [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/NewWriters
>  >
>  >
>
> The document didn't get submitted last year because I didn't have time
> to bring it up to the latest version (FC4) and to then start preparing
> for the next revision before it's scheduled release.
>
> May I suggest that we possibly prepare this document "as is" for FC5,
> obvioulsy fixing any major technicalities, and then start working on the
> next revision ready for the final release of FC6. This may also allow me
> time to finish off the extra 3 chapters on my TODO list.
>
> My wiki account is "MilesBrennan" and my cvsdocs is "mbrennan"
> (waiting
> approval).
> I hope you have a good backup, I have used neither of these before ;-)
>
>
> Regards,
> Miles
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (MingW32)
> >
> > iD8DBQFEp71DcSPa0xQu/fARAt0gAJsE1X8/64zuktsAniZcvt8XHS9OLQCfQFCD
> > M0K+J7fxzb3Dv4tW6TrRqJY=
> > =9Dg8
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- 
> --
> fedora-docs-list mailing list
> fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com
> To unsubscribe:
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list 
_________________________________________________________________
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Wireless Guide / NTFS Guide / New writing

[Patrick W. Barnes]

On Monday 03 July 2006 03:56, "Adam Moreland" <journo_bouy(a)hotmail.co.uk&gt;

wrote:
>  Reading some of these posts on a server guide [Re: Updated Server Guide for
>  Fedora Core 5], i would like to submit, or rather enquire as to the
>  validity of adding a guide on wireless internet installation using
>  ndiswrapper, and also touch on some of the built in wireless support, such
>  as IPW2200...
>
>  I have written recently, and refined, a guide for Fedora Core 5, for the
>  installation and configuration of a wireless network using ndiswrapper,
>  that includes how to configure WEP/WPA/TKIP security encryption, and how to
>  install ndiswrapper using yum and repos, manual compiles, and from cvs.
>
>  This guide has been the culmination of extensive work, based on problmes
>  many many people have with wireless internet, and using ndiswrapper. In
>  fact most dont even know what ndiswrapper is, or what it does, let alone
>  how to use it. To date, i have yet to see any official fedora instructions
>  for this type of problem, and only scattered wiki pages that are often mish
>  mashed together on [1].
>
>  My wireless guide is written in HTML, and is viewable here [2] and is
>  detailed and split into sections, for ease of reading. If some one can have
>  a look over this guide. I would cleans this guide up, and re-write in the
>  third person, should this guide be of use as an official document. I
>  already have had my guide linked to a number of times by various places,
>  including fedoraforum.org, and also [3] fedorazine.
>
>  [1]http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net
>  [2]http://www.manix-place.co.uk/wireless.html
>  [3]http://www.fedorazine.com
>
>  I feel this guide could help many more fedora users, and could do with
>  being made "official", given the lack of information on the web about
>  wireless unless you know what you are looking for, and how to use it. This
>  guide simplifies the mass of information into 7 sections that guide you
>  through preparations to installations and finally configurations, with
>  troubleshooting, and useful links sections. POlease feel free to comment on
>  this and let me know what can be done about making this official.
>
>  And further, with respect to this:
>  >I usually withhold my more blatant and gushing enthusiasm until such
>  >time as additional folks step up to help whip these documents into
>  >fighting shape.  Looking at our contributor list[1], I see a lot of
>  >names that popped up for roughly five minutes on the mailing list and
>  >then were never seen again.
>  >
>  >Would you be interested in joining in the effort[2]?  Your enthusiasm
>  >could be contagious if followed up with some elbow grease!  :-)
>  >
>  >= = =
>  >[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors [2]
>  >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/NewWriters
>
>  i have been involved as much as i can, admittidly not as much as i had
>  hoped, but i actually never thought this guide, or anything else could be
>  of use. I have an NTFS guide on the same website (listed in my sig) should
>  this also be of any use, and have many more lined up, which is why i have
>  not been as active. However i have been trying to edit wikis in the games
>  sections as often as i can, and work with the docs projects. I am eager to
>  write more and could to with some guidance from those more experienced. I
>  am also not adverse to elbow grease, so i think you will enjoy the final
>  products i produce, under the right guidance and criticisms.
>
>  Sorry for the extensive reply, and i hope someone can help guide me, and
>  comment on this work??
>  
Unfortunately, neither of these guides are suitable for inclusion by the 
Fedora Documentation Project.  We follow the same commitments as the rest of 
the Fedora Project, which prevents the inclusion of documentation on non-free 
or non-open source technologies.  See the ForbiddenItems page for a few 
examples of things we won't document:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems

This material sounds appropriate for Fedora Unity.  You might consider 
contacting that team.

http://fedoraunity.org/

-- 
Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes
nman64(a)n-man.com

http://www.n-man.com/

LinkedIn:
http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64

Have I been helpful?  Rate my assistance!
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Wireless Guide / NTFS Guide / New writing

[Paul W. Frields]

On Mon, 2006-07-03 at 05:08 -0500, Patrick W. Barnes wrote:
>  On Monday 03 July 2006 03:56, "Adam Moreland"
> <journo_bouy(a)hotmail.co.uk&gt; 
>  wrote:
>  > i have been involved as much as i can, admittidly not as much as i had
>  > hoped, but i actually never thought this guide, or anything else could be
>  > of use. I have an NTFS guide on the same website (listed in my sig) should
>  > this also be of any use, and have many more lined up, which is why i have
>  > not been as active. However i have been trying to edit wikis in the games
>  > sections as often as i can, and work with the docs projects. I am eager to
>  > write more and could to with some guidance from those more experienced. I
>  > am also not adverse to elbow grease, so i think you will enjoy the final
>  > products i produce, under the right guidance and criticisms. 
<smile class="bemused">

It appears I inadvertently touched a nerve in some people at whom my
"disappear" comment was not directed.  I know we have a number of
volunteers lurking about who give time and energy when they can.  We see
your commits on the Wiki since many of us use the watch lists and are
notified when you make them.  Adam, you and many others have our
gratitude for your contributions.  Please understand my comment was only
a little despondent over the fact that we have fewer hands on board than
we'd like... although that makes us absolutely no different than any
part of Fedora, or even most free software projects.

</smile>

>  > Sorry for the extensive reply, and i hope someone can help guide
> me, and
>  > comment on this work??
>  
>  Unfortunately, neither of these guides are suitable for inclusion by the 
>  Fedora Documentation Project.  We follow the same commitments as the rest of 
>  the Fedora Project, which prevents the inclusion of documentation on non-free 
>  or non-open source technologies.  See the ForbiddenItems page for a few 
>  examples of things we won't document:
>  
>  http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems
>  
>  This material sounds appropriate for Fedora Unity.  You might consider 
>  contacting that team.
>  
>  http://fedoraunity.org/ 
+0.75:  Several people have raised the point on the f-a-b list that the
upstream kernel has included an NTFS driver for a LONG time, and since
the OIN protects the kernel, there should be no prohibition against
Fedora shipping at least a read-only NTFS kernel module.  If we can
resolve that issue successfully, an NTFS guide which restricts itself to
that protected part of the problem space (i.e. the portion solved by an
included kernel module) would be a useful and good thing.

-- 
Paul W. Frields, RHCE                          http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
     Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board
 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/

Wireless Guide / NTFS Guide / New writing

[Adam Moreland]

Hey,

> +0.75:  Several people have raised the point on the f-a-b list that the
> upstream kernel has included an NTFS driver for a LONG time, and since
> the OIN protects the kernel, there should be no prohibition against
> Fedora shipping at least a read-only NTFS kernel module.  If we can
> resolve that issue successfully, an NTFS guide which restricts itself to
> that protected part of the problem space (i.e. the portion solved by an
> included kernel module) would be a useful and good thing.
>
> --
> Paul W. Frields, RHCE                          http://paul.frields.org/
>    gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
>       Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board
>   Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ 
I am for such a thing. Also can i ask for some verification, as as far as i 
know, fedora dfoes ship with supports for some wireless NIC's and 
ndiswrapper is an open source program. In fact can i ask for clarification 
on the definition of wireless ebing restricted and prohibited.

The usage of ndiswrapper is to allow proprietry software to intergrate into 
the kernel, but this seems not to be an issue in other distros and in fact 
fedora ships with support for some Intel wireless cards already. Surely for 
the sake of fedora this type of distinction (of wireless being forbidden) is 
rediculous. After all it is an open source solution, using open source 
materials, to allow the open surce communtiy to have legal access to the 
drivers they already paid for once they purchased the wireless NIC.

I cannot see how a guide on the usage of ndiswrapper (which is open source) 
cannot be achieved, so long as the guide doesnt explicitly promote the 
proprietry software. After all isnt this the point?? To intergrate the open 
source to merge the experience into one community solution?? Wireless is 
still a massive problem for Linux users, but i have guides for both SUSE 
9.x/10.x and FC5.

Please can i have clarification as to the reasons that ndiswrapper cannot be 
used in the fedora etras repo, and why the use of ndiswrapper contradicts 
the policy of fedora-docs on the use of proprietry means. I read the policy 
as meaning that you cannot use nVidia, as they make it, but ndiswrapper is a 
middle man, and is open source. We (linux community) have used the same 
workarounds to get Logitech keybaords, HP devices, most printers, laptops, 
speakers, sound cards, and other methods. The user need not support 
proprietry means, because by using the open source ndiswrapper, they are 
surely curcumventing the need to be protected by the policy on forbidding 
proprietry terms.

I can see the huge gap caused by the lack of clarification from fedora on 
the use of such means like wireless, and also NTFS. The confusion is 
unwarrented surely. Cant there be a solution where the NTFS modules can be 
brought into fedora extras, and a guide be used accordingly. FAT32 is 
supported, and other forms and file systems, so why not NTFS, which has had 
a long history with fedora and is clearly completly open source.


Mr Adam L Moreland (MAniX) | Registered Linux User: #417406
BA (Hons) Media Studies, 2nd Year, UoN
WEB: http://www.manix-place.co.uk
BLOG:http://www.2welshmen-and-a-sheep.co.uk
****
System: Pentium 4 SKT478 2.8GHz Precott, AMD Athlon XP-M 2800+ | GPG Key: 
AC230C32
****
pub 1024D/AC230C32 2006-05-21
Key fingerprint = 14F4 50F5 806C 25A5 B33C C2BF 982C 87B7 AC23 0C32
uid Adam Moreland (MAniX)
sub 2048g/A471FCE7 2006-05-21
****

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live™ Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free! 
http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb

Wireless Guide / NTFS Guide / New writing

[Rahul Sundaram]

Adam Moreland wrote:

>  I am for such a thing. Also can i ask for some verification, as as
> far 
>  as i know, fedora dfoes ship with supports for some wireless NIC's and 
>  ndiswrapper is an open source program. In fact can i ask for 
>  clarification on the definition of wireless ebing restricted and 
>  prohibited.
>
>  The usage of ndiswrapper is to allow proprietry software to intergrate 
>  into the kernel, but this seems not to be an issue in other distros 
>  and in fact fedora ships with support for some Intel wireless cards 
>  already. Surely for the sake of fedora this type of distinction (of 
>  wireless being forbidden) is rediculous.  

Wireless is not forbidden. Ndiswrapper is.

>  After all it is an open source solution, using open source materials,
>
>  to allow the open surce communtiy to have legal access to the drivers 
>  they already paid for once they purchased the wireless NIC.
>
>  I cannot see how a guide on the usage of ndiswrapper (which is open 
>  source) cannot be achieved, so long as the guide doesnt explicitly 
>  promote the proprietry software. After all isnt this the point?? To 
>  intergrate the open source to merge the experience into one community 
>  solution?? Wireless is still a massive problem for Linux users, but i 
>  have guides for both SUSE 9.x/10.x and FC5.
>
>  Please can i have clarification as to the reasons that ndiswrapper 
>  cannot be used in the fedora etras repo, and why the use of 
>  ndiswrapper contradicts the policy of fedora-docs on the use of 
>  proprietry means. I read the policy as meaning that you cannot use 
>  nVidia, as they make it, but ndiswrapper is a middle man, and is open 
>  source. We (linux community) have used the same workarounds to get 
>  Logitech keybaords, HP devices, most printers, laptops, speakers, 
>  sound cards, and other methods. The user need not support proprietry 
>  means, because by using the open source ndiswrapper, they are surely 
>  curcumventing the need to be protected by the policy on forbidding 
>  proprietry terms.
>
>  I can see the huge gap caused by the lack of clarification from fedora 
>  on the use of such means like wireless, and also NTFS. The confusion 
>  is unwarrented surely. Cant there be a solution where the NTFS modules 
>  can be brought into fedora extras, and a guide be used accordingly. 
>  FAT32 is supported, and other forms and file systems, so why not NTFS, 
>  which has had a long history with fedora and is clearly completly open 
>  source. 
The explanation is given here at 
http://www.redhat.com/archives/rhl-beta-list/2006-March/msg00395.html.  
There are other technical reasons such as the issue of 4k stacks being 
the default (http://lwn.net/Articles/160138/).  Many of the windows 
drivers would not work with Ndiswrapper since they require more than 16 
k stacks in the kernel. The only purpose of ndiswrapper is to enable the 
loading of binary only modules within the kernel from a different 
platform. Fedora will not formally support or endorse such efforts.

If you the read the forbidden items page you would know that Fedora does 
not provide any software that is patent encumbered. Merely having the 
source does not satisfy all our requirements for inclusion.

Rahul

Wireless Guide / NTFS Guide / New writing

[Adam Moreland]

having read your comments Rahul, i see the troubles. I can also see that 
more work needs to be done to show the native drivers, and the cards they 
work with. Many users just buy NIC's and have to use ndiswrapper, or other 
technology. I see the drivers list is growing for support for wireless, but 
can these guides be made more availble, and put in some section of its own. 
Please forgive me if this is already the case, but after a very short search 
(so apologies if im wrong) it seems there is little to help show me what 
devioces are allowed, and what can be used nativly, and thus what i should 
buy as a wireless NIC to have full native support as standard.

Forgive my outburts also. It is a hot day here, and the lengthy process 
takes its toll on many a user at times. I have used ndiswrapper for a long 
while, and it is far from great, hence the need for such guides, but i also 
am keen to see the development of open source native drivers, so perhaps 
guides to this degree and to this point should be made, and amalgamated into 
one section suitable for publication in its own wiki pages, and avaiable on 
the main fedora websites??

NTFS, guide could still be done then, if written correctly, am i right in 
assuming this?? I think i need help, before ploughing into documentation, 
with such complex legal, or patent encumbered policies, and apologies for 
the seemingly rediculous arguements i have amde, it is simply just not 
enough to have aone or two docs on the subject, we need guides and 
recomendations on where to get this stuff (native drivers i mean) and if 
they are shippe,d how to active them.

Mr Adam L Moreland (MAniX) | Registered Linux User: #417406
BA (Hons) Media Studies, 2nd Year, UoN
WEB: http://www.manix-place.co.uk
BLOG:http://www.2welshmen-and-a-sheep.co.uk
****
System: Pentium 4 SKT478 2.8GHz Precott, AMD Athlon XP-M 2800+ | GPG Key: 
AC230C32
****
pub 1024D/AC230C32 2006-05-21
Key fingerprint = 14F4 50F5 806C 25A5 B33C C2BF 982C 87B7 AC23 0C32
uid Adam Moreland (MAniX)
sub 2048g/A471FCE7 2006-05-21
****




> From: Rahul Sundaram <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
> Reply-To: For participants of the Documentation Project 
> <fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com&gt;
> To: For participants of the Documentation Project 
> <fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com&gt;
> Subject: Re: Wireless Guide / NTFS Guide / New writing
> Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 19:00:15 +0530
>
> Adam Moreland wrote:
>
> >I am for such a thing. Also can i ask for some verification, as as far as 
> >i know, fedora dfoes ship with supports for some wireless NIC's and 
> >ndiswrapper is an open source program. In fact can i ask for clarification 
> >on the definition of wireless ebing restricted and prohibited.
> >
> >The usage of ndiswrapper is to allow proprietry software to intergrate 
> >into the kernel, but this seems not to be an issue in other distros and in 
> >fact fedora ships with support for some Intel wireless cards already. 
> >Surely for the sake of fedora this type of distinction (of wireless being 
> >forbidden) is rediculous.
>
>
> Wireless is not forbidden. Ndiswrapper is.
>
> >After all it is an open source solution, using open source materials, to 
> >allow the open surce communtiy to have legal access to the drivers they 
> >already paid for once they purchased the wireless NIC.
> >
> >I cannot see how a guide on the usage of ndiswrapper (which is open 
> >source) cannot be achieved, so long as the guide doesnt explicitly promote 
> >the proprietry software. After all isnt this the point?? To intergrate the 
> >open source to merge the experience into one community solution?? Wireless 
> >is still a massive problem for Linux users, but i have guides for both 
> >SUSE 9.x/10.x and FC5.
> >
> >Please can i have clarification as to the reasons that ndiswrapper cannot 
> >be used in the fedora etras repo, and why the use of ndiswrapper 
> >contradicts the policy of fedora-docs on the use of proprietry means. I 
> >read the policy as meaning that you cannot use nVidia, as they make it, 
> >but ndiswrapper is a middle man, and is open source. We (linux community) 
> >have used the same workarounds to get Logitech keybaords, HP devices, most 
> >printers, laptops, speakers, sound cards, and other methods. The user need 
> >not support proprietry means, because by using the open source 
> >ndiswrapper, they are surely curcumventing the need to be protected by the 
> >policy on forbidding proprietry terms.
> >
> >I can see the huge gap caused by the lack of clarification from fedora on 
> >the use of such means like wireless, and also NTFS. The confusion is 
> >unwarrented surely. Cant there be a solution where the NTFS modules can be 
> >brought into fedora extras, and a guide be used accordingly. FAT32 is 
> >supported, and other forms and file systems, so why not NTFS, which has 
> >had a long history with fedora and is clearly completly open source.
>
> The explanation is given here at 
> http://www.redhat.com/archives/rhl-beta-list/2006-March/msg00395.html.  
> There are other technical reasons such as the issue of 4k stacks being the 
> default (http://lwn.net/Articles/160138/).  Many of the windows drivers 
> would not work with Ndiswrapper since they require more than 16 k stacks in 
> the kernel. The only purpose of ndiswrapper is to enable the loading of 
> binary only modules within the kernel from a different platform. Fedora 
> will not formally support or endorse such efforts.
>
> If you the read the forbidden items page you would know that Fedora does 
> not provide any software that is patent encumbered. Merely having the 
> source does not satisfy all our requirements for inclusion.
>
> Rahul
>
> --
> fedora-docs-list mailing list
> fedora-docs-list(a)redhat.com
> To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list 
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Wireless Guide / NTFS Guide / New writing

[Paul W. Frields]

On Mon, 2006-07-03 at 14:17 +0000, Adam Moreland wrote:
>  NTFS, guide could still be done then, if written correctly, am i
> right in 
>  assuming this?? I think i need help, before ploughing into documentation, 
>  with such complex legal, or patent encumbered policies, and apologies for 
>  the seemingly rediculous arguements i have amde, it is simply just not 
>  enough to have aone or two docs on the subject, we need guides and 
>  recomendations on where to get this stuff (native drivers i mean) and if 
>  they are shippe,d how to active them. 
Speaking only for NTFS and an official FDP doc, I would say this should
wait, just until we have a decision on the driver inclusion issue.  Note
that, as Patrick mentioned before, nothing stops you from working on
this with a non-official group such as Fedora Unity.  I don't think
anyone can guarantee for you that your work could be made official until
we have a decision on the main issue, which is including the NTFS kernel
module itself.

-- 
Paul W. Frields, RHCE                          http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
     Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board
 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/

[Paul W. Frields]

Sorry Miles, I forgot to respond to this:

On Sun, 2006-07-02 at 22:34 +1000, Miles Brennan wrote:
>  Paul W. Frields wrote:
>  >>> 1.  The document is licensed as CC BY-NC-SA, so you would need to
>  >>> relicense it as OPL 1.0 [2] for the Fedora Documentation Project to use
>  >>> it.
>  
>  I've had a read of the OPL, am I able to choose options with the license? 
We use the OPL without any additional options (in fact, we *can't*
really use it with the addition of any of the options).

>  The document didn't get submitted last year because I didn't
> have time
>  to bring it up to the latest version (FC4) and to then start preparing
>  for the next revision before it's scheduled release.
>  
>  May I suggest that we possibly prepare this document "as is" for FC5,
>  obvioulsy fixing any major technicalities, and then start working on the
>  next revision ready for the final release of FC6. This may also allow me
>  time to finish off the extra 3 chapters on my TODO list.
>  
>  My wiki account is "MilesBrennan" and my cvsdocs is "mbrennan"
> (waiting
>  approval).
>  I hope you have a good backup, I have used neither of these before ;-) 
If your wiki account is in the EditGroup, please feel free to start
dumping your work into Docs/Drafts!  If you're not, stop by IRC
#fedora-docs or post here and we'll get you in there.

I saw some of the work on the MoinMoin <-> DocBook conversion today, and
it was pretty exciting.  That will make any drop into CVS esaier later.

-- 
Paul W. Frields, RHCE                          http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
     Fedora Project Board: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board
 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/

[Timothy Murphy]

Paul W. Frields wrote:

>  Looking at our contributor list[1], I see a lot of
>  names that popped up for roughly five minutes on the mailing list and
>  then were never seen again.
>  
>  Would you be interested in joining in the effort[2]?  Your enthusiasm
>  could be contagious if followed up with some elbow grease!  :-)
>  
>  = = =
>  [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors
>  [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/NewWriters 
I've certainly thought of this,
but haven't come up with a topic on which I could plausibly pontificate!

I do very strongly support what you are doing,
as it seems to me that good documentation and easily-accessible information
are at least as important to the future of Linux as technical improvement.

-- 
Timothy Murphy  
e-mail (<80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie
tel: [phone]
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland