On 11/25/2015 08:18 PM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
On 25 November 2015 at 02:24, Petr Hracek <phracek(a)redhat.com>
wrote:
> Hi Stephen,
>
> First of all I would like to thank you for your open mail.
>
> I will try to react on it a bit.
> On 11/24/2015 08:24 PM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
>>
>> On 24 November 2015 at 02:32, Jan Kurik <jkurik(a)redhat.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Env & Stacks Working Group,
>>>
>>> during the Nomination period of the Nov/Dec 2015 Fedora Elections,
>>> this working group has not got enough nominees to cover all the open
>>> seats. We have currently 4 open seats but only 2 nominees [1].
>>> I would like to agree on a plan, how to deal with this situation.
>>>
>>> From my point of view there might be two solutions:
>>> 1) On an internal mailing list in RedHat I have seen some comments
>>> about handover of responsibilities from Env&Stacks WG to other teams
>>> (like Atomic, Cloud, etc.). If this is the case, the WG might revisit
>>> its purpose and adapt the resources to it, so the Elections will not
>>> be needed.
>>> 2) Another solution might be to organize the elections once more after
>>> some internal gaining in the Env&Stacks WG, to raise awareness of
>>> people about the work this WG is doing.
>>>
>>> I am open for any other ideas, helping to solve the current situation.
>>> Please comment.
>>>
>> These were my comments previously:
>>
>> Maybe the problem with not a lot of nominations is that no one knows
>> what Env & Stacks really does? When I talk with a lot of people their
>> opinion is that it is mostly a talking versus doing group. It doesn't
>> have any "power", it doesn't have any real
"responsibility", and it
>> doesn't have a known scope.
>
> I guess, that you are right. But see on Docker. It is part of Fedora and it
> works.
>
I don't see what that has to do with Env and Stacks. Yes it is an
environment and it is a stack but there is no connection to where
docker got into Fedora because of this group. It doesn't mean there
isn't a connection but it isn't obvious from emails on this list that
the work was because of this group or that it got in faster because
there was a committee.
Just for the connection, one thing we talked through few weeks back
about docker was the Fedora dockerfiles that require much more love on
https://github.com/fedora-cloud/Fedora-Dockerfiles and as a consequence
Slavek became one of the maintainer on github.
However, even that doesn't invalidate anything said above -- such small
steps are not visible and the steps are too small to be taken as big
contribution.
> There are many projects around env&stack like here [1].
> But If I can tell we don't have an aim for each election period, Fedora
> release
> or real target which we are focusing on. This could be a problem.
>
> From my last election period, I think that we discuss and discuss a bit
> more.
> We should work on a new things or a visions for Fedora or what should be an
> aim for E&S.
> I know that there is a bunch of projects like Software Component Pipeline,
> DevPI, DevAssistant, Fedora Developer Portal, Docker, Copr and another. We
> are working on it.
> But they are not visible so much, I guess.
> We should do a meeting where should be an update about projects.
>
> But Stephen, on the other hand. Many folks maintain several packages
> or they are busy with another work. I guess, that we can not concentrate
> fully on E&S projects. Correct me if I am wrong.
>
That is true, but if the work is getting done without the committee
then why is there a committee? If we treat this like a layer in the
kernel or a library.. if the layer does not add anything or that you
are finding that you are just calling the lower layers anyway.. why is
that layer there? Should it be removed, should it be altered? What
things rely on it and would they be better with a different framework?
Valid points. From my PoV, having a real committee is needed only when
there are some questionable issues where we need to dive deep, explain
several solutions and vote for one of them. During last year, many
discussions about future of Fedora happened during E&S meetings, but I
don't remember any voting, it was basically not needed. And without need
to be a decision body I don't see reasons to have E&S elections either,
maybe not even official membership.
Honza