Hi,
We talked about making it easier for folks to join the Fedora community at last week's meeting. I've been thinking about it a little. I think the work flow could be changed (tweaked) just a little. Each team has their own system. I was wondering if we could have a sort of unified system:
- A FAS group: "fedora-newbie" This would: - let people post to the planet. This requires fedorapeople space, but I wonder if we can come up with another method of providing access to the planet. I've seen many prospective ambassadors ask this question. Since they aren't part of any non-cla groups, they can't post to the planet and it becomes just a little more difficult to tell the community what they're up to. Maybe we could set up a separate fedora-newbie fedorapeople space where these newbies could add their planet files, if individual fedorapeople space isn't OK? We'll need to talk to infra about this. - Make it easy for the entire community to interact with people that are in the process of joining the community: you just need to query the group.
- the fedora-join mailing list and IRC channel will be the official channel for fedora-newbies: fedora-join will be the community side of this process. We help fedora-newbies with whatever issues they may have. - fedora-newbies will be required to provide monthly updates: this will tell us who is active, and who isn't. The FAS can be cleaned up every six months to remove people who aren't active. - we could hold bi-weekly fedora-join meetings where newbies can introduce themselves, and community members can hop in to communicate with them in a completely informal setting. We could even hold weekly meetings such that alternate meetings are held in different timezones, making fedora-join accessible to people around the globe. Community could each turn up at meetings that fit their timezones.
I stole the last few steps from the infra team. I think they have the best and easiest join process. They create a fi-apperentice group and give newbies access to some infra that enables them to learn how fedora-infra works. At each meeting, new people that want to join the infra team introduce themselves. They send out a "Meeting agenda item: self introduction: John Doe" e-mail to the mailing list beforehand. Each month, Kevin starts a thread "Monthly status report for fi-apperentices" where all group members provide short updates and ask queries etc.
While people are in the fedora-newbies group, we'll help them join a team, removing them from the fedora-newbies group once they've been approved to a team group. The teams can use their FAS groups properly, to grant infra access. In the mean time, the newbies will still be part of the community, even if they aren't officially part of any Fedora teams.
This will work well for other teams, such as ambassadors: Prospective ambassadors can communicate with the community while they're still in the mentorship process.
I would really like to see something of the sort for all of Fedora. The initial idea was to make Fedora Join the *single* stop for anyone that wants to join the community. We'll have to communicate with the other teams, sure, but it's a start.
Comments?
Hi Ankur,
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 11:00 AM, Ankur Sinha sanjay.ankur@gmail.comwrote:
Hi,
We talked about making it easier for folks to join the Fedora community at last week's meeting. I've been thinking about it a little. I think the work flow could be changed (tweaked) just a little. Each team has their own system. I was wondering if we could have a sort of unified system:
- A FAS group: "fedora-newbie"
This would:
- let people post to the planet. This requires fedorapeople space,
but I wonder if we can come up with another method of providing access to the planet. I've seen many prospective ambassadors ask this question. Since they aren't part of any non-cla groups, they can't post to the planet and it becomes just a little more difficult to tell the community what they're up to. Maybe we could set up a separate fedora-newbie fedorapeople space where these newbies could add their planet files, if individual fedorapeople space isn't OK? We'll need to talk to infra about this.
+1 for the idea. But isn't there an already existing group for Fedora Join ? Can't we use that ?
- Make it easy for the entire community to interact with people that
are in the process of joining the community: you just need to query the group.
+1
- the fedora-join mailing list and IRC channel will be the official
channel for fedora-newbies: fedora-join will be the community side of this process. We help fedora-newbies with whatever issues they may have.
- fedora-newbies will be required to provide monthly updates: this will
tell us who is active, and who isn't. The FAS can be cleaned up every six months to remove people who aren't active.
+1, cleaning up is the most crucial part of all this.
- we could hold bi-weekly fedora-join meetings where newbies can
introduce themselves, and community members can hop in to communicate with them in a completely informal setting. We could even hold weekly meetings such that alternate meetings are held in different timezones, making fedora-join accessible to people around the globe. Community could each turn up at meetings that fit their timezones.
I think keeping bi-weekly meeting would be sufficient and it would give sufficient time to the newbies as well, to work which they could showcase in the meeting. But if it's just for the introduction then we could hold a weekly meeting.
I stole the last few steps from the infra team. I think they have the best and easiest join process. They create a fi-apperentice group and give newbies access to some infra that enables them to learn how fedora-infra works. At each meeting, new people that want to join the infra team introduce themselves. They send out a "Meeting agenda item: self introduction: John Doe" e-mail to the mailing list beforehand. Each month, Kevin starts a thread "Monthly status report for fi-apperentices" where all group members provide short updates and ask queries etc.
It's true because this helps folks in getting familiar with all the steps to get into the team slowly.
While people are in the fedora-newbies group, we'll help them join a team, removing them from the fedora-newbies group once they've been approved to a team group. The teams can use their FAS groups properly, to grant infra access. In the mean time, the newbies will still be part of the community, even if they aren't officially part of any Fedora teams.
This will work well for other teams, such as ambassadors: Prospective ambassadors can communicate with the community while they're still in the mentorship process.
I would really like to see something of the sort for all of Fedora. The initial idea was to make Fedora Join the *single* stop for anyone that wants to join the community. We'll have to communicate with the other teams, sure, but it's a start.
Comments?
--
Thanks, Warm regards, Ankur (FranciscoD)
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha
Join Fedora! Come talk to us! http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Join_SIG
fedora-join mailing list fedora-join@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fedora-join
Regards Nitesh Narayan Lal
On Apr 22, 2014 11:50 PM, "nitesh narayan lal" < niteshnarayanlalleo@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Ankur,
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 11:00 AM, Ankur Sinha sanjay.ankur@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi,
We talked about making it easier for folks to join the Fedora community at last week's meeting. I've been thinking about it a little. I think the work flow could be changed (tweaked) just a little. Each team has their own system. I was wondering if we could have a sort of unified system:
- A FAS group: "fedora-newbie"
This would:
- let people post to the planet. This requires fedorapeople space,
but I wonder if we can come up with another method of providing access to the planet. I've seen many prospective ambassadors ask this question. Since they aren't part of any non-cla groups, they can't post to the planet and it becomes just a little more difficult to tell the community what they're up to. Maybe we could set up a separate fedora-newbie fedorapeople space where these newbies could add their planet files, if individual fedorapeople space isn't OK? We'll need to talk to infra about this.
+1 for the idea. But isn't there an already existing group for Fedora
Join ? Can't we use that ? ...
Regards Nitesh Narayan Lal
Now that you mention it... No, I don't think there is a Join FAS group. Should there be? We don't really need it for permissions, so it would just add designation of membership.
--Pete
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 03:30:43PM +1000, Ankur Sinha wrote:
I stole the last few steps from the infra team. I think they have the best and easiest join process. They create a fi-apperentice group and
They have a great process, but it also requires someone dedicated to helping mentor the apprentices and do the status report queries. That is definitely awesome and I'd like to see more of it across Fedora, but I don't know how we can demand it of every sub-team.
Hello there,
I think this group is exactly what I've been looking for. I've been a computer admin/web programmer for many years. Around 2003 I became interested and started using Linux. Through all that I fell in love with Open Source and Linux and am now half-way finished a 3 year CS program. I did this because I want my whole future to be wrapped up in contributing to Linux and Open Source. (Specifically Fedora).
There never seemed to be a visible entry door for people like me. You all seemed like a tight-knit group of "geeks" that had a secret knock or passageway to get in... and unless you knew them, you weren't invited.
Entry is almost overwhelming. I don't know anything it seems. I've wanted to learn how to write an RPM, how to contribute, how to test... but the methods to do so are so confusing and so obscure, unless someone either explains it or you read a manual that is thicker than a New York phone book, you'll never know how.
I read the irc chat you guys had. If you want an understanding from the viewpoint of an outsider. Please ask me. I'll tell you how huge the castle wall looks like.
Looking forward to figuring some of this out.
-Cory
On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 2:08 AM, Cory Hilliard coryhilliard@gmail.comwrote:
Hello there,
I think this group is exactly what I've been looking for. I've been a computer admin/web programmer for many years. Around 2003 I became interested and started using Linux. Through all that I fell in love with Open Source and Linux and am now half-way finished a 3 year CS program. I did this because I want my whole future to be wrapped up in contributing to Linux and Open Source. (Specifically Fedora).
Hi Cory! Welcome to the Fedora Project!
There never seemed to be a visible entry door for people like me. You all seemed like a tight-knit group of "geeks" that had a secret knock or passageway to get in... and unless you knew them, you weren't invited.
Entry is almost overwhelming. I don't know anything it seems. I've wanted to learn how to write an RPM, how to contribute, how to test... but the methods to do so are so confusing and so obscure, unless someone either explains it or you read a manual that is thicker than a New York phone book, you'll never know how.
I read the irc chat you guys had. If you want an understanding from the viewpoint of an outsider. Please ask me. I'll tell you how huge the castle wall looks like.
I can totally understand. I'm very glad you've appeared on the mailing list. I'm not sure if I should ask a newcomer about ways to improve his experience, but I have a quick question for you: would you rather ask for a less intensive join procedure (less forms to fill, less groups to join, just a take-me-to-where-I-do-stuff) or would you rather ask for a guided approach where someone tells you the stuff (ok, go to this page and fill out these points, next fill out this form introducing yourself)?
It's probably a difficult question to answer, but what was the first thing you tried to do when you decided you want to contribute to Fedora? What were your first hurdles? How did you reach here?
I'm hoping to devote some time this summer trying to work out an easier way for folk to involve with Fedora, I think your answers will come handy!
Thanks, hope to hear from you and help you onboard!
Sarup (banas)
Well, standing on the outside, looking in... what I see is an overwhelming scattered web of impossible options to figure out. It seems like if I want to know anything, there is no direct link to anything. I have to weed through countless links and end up in a mess of opened tabs. None of which gives me an answer.
So the first option of thinning out the web of stuff to do and join and give a simple clear pathway to what needs to happen, what I need to know and what I need to click on would be most helpful. The guided tour isn't really what I'm looking for. I don't want to feel like I'm bothering someone. If this takes off like you hope it does, then the tour guides will be overwhelmed.
A simple web site, with an easy to follow pathway. You are here -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o you are now here. Something like the mozilla site, but with less rabbit trails. A menu of options categorized like this:
What do you want to do?
-Build a Software Package -Contribute Financially -Tester -Other Options
Then under those specific headings, have a dropdown of a clear pathway of steps.
-Build a Software Package --(Step One) Write your program --(Step Two) Install the RPM thingy --(Step Three) Compile the program with the RPM thingy
At least if you make it this simple, you can have a clear path to an organized plan. Right now, I it feels like there is no organization.
Here is a slightly detailed version of what I did to get here.
-I started being interested in Linux in early 2000 -Read countless articles (back then) about which distro to use in a production environment -Chose CentOS because my boss wouldn't pay for anything, including Windows licenses -Practised doing as much as I could with walkthoughs to install servers and admin stuff. -Fell in love with Linux because it allowed me to feel in control and free from Windows stupidity
That's when I really wanted more...
-I started researching all the options and variants of Linux. -Found Fedora and loved the outlook and dedication to freedom -Followed Linux daily on news sites and such -Started using Fedora full time at F12 -Started trying to do more with the command line -Got really excited about all the bleeding edge updates -Started evangelizing Linux to my friends and family -Wrote some walkthroughs and website for helping people get Fedora installed and tweaking things to make their lives easier -Started going to college so I could learn to be a programmer and learn more so I could do more.
So over the past few years, I have been commenting on Linux blogs and articles. I read and follow news feeds.
I am passionate about all this...
But when I try to figure out how to help Fedora, or learn how to contribute in any way, there is no doorway. There is no Welcome mat that says, "Here is where you come in". It honestly feels like unless I live near Red Hat, and walk into the building, there will never be a welcome. At least until I read the article posted on lxer that was on fedoramagazine, about "Join Fedora". That was such an exciting find for me. I read through the entire irc post, just so I could know what you guys were planning to do.
For someone like me that is going to school, specifically so I can dedicate the rest of my life to building a better open source world and hopefully contribute to Fedora. (I'll probably have to find a job somewhere to support my open source contributing addiction) I am willing to learn, but there is no easy pathway to get what I need to know. It sure won't be in my school books, and my teachers wouldn't know the first thing about it. So I've had no resources to rely on.
I hope this helps,
-Cory
On 04/23/2014 04:51 PM, Sarup Banskota wrote:
On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 2:08 AM, Cory Hilliard <coryhilliard@gmail.com mailto:coryhilliard@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello there, I think this group is exactly what I've been looking for. I've been a computer admin/web programmer for many years. Around 2003 I became interested and started using Linux. Through all that I fell in love with Open Source and Linux and am now half-way finished a 3 year CS program. I did this because I want my whole future to be wrapped up in contributing to Linux and Open Source. (Specifically Fedora).Hi Cory! Welcome to the Fedora Project!
There never seemed to be a visible entry door for people like me. You all seemed like a tight-knit group of "geeks" that had a secret knock or passageway to get in... and unless you knew them, you weren't invited. Entry is almost overwhelming. I don't know anything it seems. I've wanted to learn how to write an RPM, how to contribute, how to test... but the methods to do so are so confusing and so obscure, unless someone either explains it or you read a manual that is thicker than a New York phone book, you'll never know how. I read the irc chat you guys had. If you want an understanding from the viewpoint of an outsider. Please ask me. I'll tell you how huge the castle wall looks like.I can totally understand. I'm very glad you've appeared on the mailing list. I'm not sure if I should ask a newcomer about ways to improve his experience, but I have a quick question for you: would you rather ask for a less intensive join procedure (less forms to fill, less groups to join, just a take-me-to-where-I-do-stuff) or would you rather ask for a guided approach where someone tells you the stuff (ok, go to this page and fill out these points, next fill out this form introducing yourself)?
It's probably a difficult question to answer, but what was the first thing you tried to do when you decided you want to contribute to Fedora? What were your first hurdles? How did you reach here?
I'm hoping to devote some time this summer trying to work out an easier way for folk to involve with Fedora, I think your answers will come handy!
Thanks, hope to hear from you and help you onboard!
Sarup (banas)
fedora-join mailing list fedora-join@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fedora-join
On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 3:08 AM, Cory Hilliard coryhilliard@gmail.comwrote:
I hope this helps,
-Cory
It helps a *lot* Cory! I'm sorry it had to be a difficult experience for you to get started, but I'm glad you've come to right place and hope you'll find somewhere interesting to contribute to! ;)
It's late night here for me, but feel free to head over to #fedora-join on freenode, you'll find humans to answer questions :) If you have any problems getting started, please don't hesitate to ask on this list or on irc!
I'll keep your detailed email in mind when working on the login revamp, thank you so much for your interest!
On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 3:36 AM, Sarup Banskota sbanskota08@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 3:08 AM, Cory Hilliard coryhilliard@gmail.com wrote:
I hope this helps,
-Cory
It helps a *lot* Cory! I'm sorry it had to be a difficult experience for you to get started, but I'm glad you've come to right place and hope you'll find somewhere interesting to contribute to! ;)
It's late night here for me, but feel free to head over to #fedora-join on freenode, you'll find humans to answer questions :) If you have any problems getting started, please don't hesitate to ask on this list or on irc!
I'll keep your detailed email in mind when working on the login revamp, thank you so much for your interest!
fedora-join mailing list fedora-join@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fedora-join
Hello,
I am a long time Linux user. I have done my time in Ubuntu. I have played with Arch Linux. I feel like I have found a perfect balance, of course with occasional hiccups, in Fedora. I am also an avid KDE user. I started using Fedora full time with Fedora 20 KDE spin, BTW the best KDE experience on planet Earth.
A short while ago, I was looking to get involved in open source project. I looked into KDE's Get Involved wiki [1] and specially Bug Squad [2] team. If you go over to those links you will see clear working model in KDE camp and the wiki pages are well supported by external articles like official ultimate guides and community blog posts.
On Fedora, I have noticed things can be a little daunting for new comers. Documentation is divided in official docs and wiki. Community is divided in mailing list, forums, IRC, and Ask Fedora. They all serve their purpose and audience but can be quite confusing for newcomers like me. A community has its own culture and it takes time to learn about it but I have had a hard time finding "the obvious-es" in Fedora. The help is readily available in Fedora. Any time I have a KDE related problem, KDE SIG team at IRC is quick to resolve it. But you have to know where to find them. We have to somehow fill this gap.
Overall I am pretty happy that I overcame the initial hurdles and am a happy Fedora user.
[1] http://community.kde.org/Getinvolved [2] http://techbase.kde.org/Contribute/Bugsquad
On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 1:52 AM, Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.orgwrote:
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 03:30:43PM +1000, Ankur Sinha wrote:
I stole the last few steps from the infra team. I think they have the best and easiest join process. They create a fi-apperentice group and
They have a great process, but it also requires someone dedicated to helping mentor the apprentices and do the status report queries. That is definitely awesome and I'd like to see more of it across Fedora, but I don't know how we can demand it of every sub-team.
I'm not really sure how it currently works on other teams, but maybe we should have an ambassador assigned to every team? Maybe multiple ambassadors to accommodate several timezones per sub-team? Am I wrong in thinking that ambassadors should take up responsibility of a particular team for fixed days in a given timezone if they're going to become ambassadors? I understand people are only volunteers, but I feel not being guided by a human when starting out really puts off newcomers. It would be nice to have rosters of ambassadors/contributors mentoring newcomers at specific periods of time.
Just an opinion :-)
On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 2:34 AM, Sarup Banskota sbanskota08@gmail.comwrote:
On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 1:52 AM, Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.orgwrote:
On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 03:30:43PM +1000, Ankur Sinha wrote:
I stole the last few steps from the infra team. I think they have the best and easiest join process. They create a fi-apperentice group and
They have a great process, but it also requires someone dedicated to helping mentor the apprentices and do the status report queries. That is definitely awesome and I'd like to see more of it across Fedora, but I don't know how we can demand it of every sub-team.
I'm not really sure how it currently works on other teams, but maybe we should have an ambassador assigned to every team? Maybe multiple ambassadors to accommodate several timezones per sub-team? Am I wrong in thinking that ambassadors should take up responsibility of a particular team for fixed days in a given timezone if they're going to become ambassadors? I understand people are only volunteers, but I feel not being guided by a human when starting out really puts off newcomers. It would be nice to have rosters of ambassadors/contributors mentoring newcomers at specific periods of time.
Sorry for the repeated reply, I just had a chat with Pete on irc and it seems like I may have not explained my intent properly. What I really mean to say is that there should be someone on every team to help out newcomers, show them specifically how they can help with a project based on their skills, and then be with them until they first set it up on their local (or come up with a logo for eg). Now this person may or may not be an ambassador, but it's useful if all ambassadors know such people so they know who to point people to when they're directing people to a team.
Thanks!
On 04/23/2014 05:52 PM, Sarup Banskota wrote:
On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 2:34 AM, Sarup Banskota <sbanskota08@gmail.com mailto:sbanskota08@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 1:52 AM, Matthew Miller <mattdm@fedoraproject.org <mailto:mattdm@fedoraproject.org>> wrote: On Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 03:30:43PM +1000, Ankur Sinha wrote: > I stole the last few steps from the infra team. I think they have the > best and easiest join process. They create a fi-apperentice group and They have a great process, but it also requires someone dedicated to helping mentor the apprentices and do the status report queries. That is definitely awesome and I'd like to see more of it across Fedora, but I don't know how we can demand it of every sub-team. I'm not really sure how it currently works on other teams, but maybe we should have an ambassador assigned to every team? Maybe multiple ambassadors to accommodate several timezones per sub-team? Am I wrong in thinking that ambassadors should take up responsibility of a particular team for fixed days in a given timezone if they're going to become ambassadors? I understand people are only volunteers, but I feel not being guided by a human when starting out really puts off newcomers. It would be nice to have rosters of ambassadors/contributors mentoring newcomers at specific periods of time.Sorry for the repeated reply, I just had a chat with Pete on irc and it seems like I may have not explained my intent properly. What I really mean to say is that there should be someone on every team to help out newcomers, show them specifically how they can help with a project based on their skills, and then be with them until they first set it up on their local (or come up with a logo for eg). Now this person may or may not be an ambassador, but it's useful if all ambassadors know such people so they know who to point people to when they're directing people to a team.
Thanks!
fedora-join mailing list fedora-join@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fedora-join
I think if it was set up as an ambassador controlled help line, then it would work great.
A forum or something that makes people feel like they aren't alone and can ask questions. I don't necessarily think that a 1:1 ratio or a group-led walkthrough by one specific ambassador is needed, as much as a place where people can go to feel heard. Yes the connections to real people are important, but as long as someone on the other end can help when questions arise would make all the difference.
On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 02:34:26AM +0530, Sarup Banskota wrote:
I'm not really sure how it currently works on other teams, but maybe we should have an ambassador assigned to every team? Maybe multiple
That would be *amazing*. Are there ambassadors waiting to be assigned? I know plenty of teams to point them at. :)
fedora-join@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Ankur Sinha -
Cory Hilliard -
Matthew Miller -
nitesh narayan lal -
Pete Travis -
Sarup Banskota -
Sudhir Khanger