Most of the starters are not able to get all the information he/she requires while onboarding. A well-maintained Landing page is what they need, which should give them a clear and overall idea of what Fedora does and what are the fields that they find interesting. This will be a proper head start, and later when they are sure, guidance can be sought by Fedora Join SIG members. An assembly of all the required resources at one platform will not only help the newcomer to get a clear idea of what he/she will be doing with the different areas in the Fedora community, it will also help clear the doubts of the necessary question that might be running without the acknowledgment of any third person (sometimes starter who are beginners to open source feel shy to talk in a public platform).
Proposed Solution Planning a better New comer’s landing page WIP: https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Fedora-Join/issue/161 We should update this https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join to provide the redirection saying it is not maintained, for recent update go to this https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Fedora-Join/issue/161 New Comer Landing page should have these proper redirections to these since these pages any newcomer would need to know Fedora well. Wcidff (which also need an update) (https://whatcanidoforfedora.org/en/) Easy-fix (https://fedoraproject.org/easyfix/) Fedora-apps (https://apps.fedoraproject.org/)
Ideation of getting consistent contributors for Fedora! Organizing an Outreach Program I was thinking if we could do an outreach program for a short span(like 40-60 days) once a year, which would be something similar to that of a GSoC/Outreachy, but it would be solely organized by Fedora. It would draw the attention of people who want to be a part of the community and do great projects. It would be a great opportunity, where we could get potential long term contributors for Fedora. We could incorporate projects that require prior attention like Wcidff Working on the Docs etc Source of Inspiration - Season of KDE(https://season.kde.org/)
Proposing Wcidff as a GSoC/Outreachy project would be a good idea. (More project related discussions is here https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/what-to-do-with-wcidff-warning/13302)
A proper guideline for contributors to get a detailed idea of the areas that wcidff has like Design, Artwork Requests, Coding, etc. (A docs.f.o would be great)
Converting this article to a docs.fp.o page might be helpful https://fedoramagazine.org/how-to-contribute-to-fedora/ (Suggestion- It might fit into CommOps docs https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/commops/ )
Apps. Fedora (https://apps.fedoraproject.org/) is a great resource for boarders to get a clear idea of different applications Fedora. But eventually, the site might go down as CPE Team might not want to maintain it. So, we should either get an alternative or maintain it.
These were some of the ideas I thought might need some limelight and some I personally want to present.
Any suggestions would be highly helpful!
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 16:12:34 -0000, Alisha Mohanty wrote:
Most of the starters are not able to get all the information he/she requires while onboarding. A well-maintained Landing page is what they need, which should give them a clear and overall idea of what Fedora does and what are the fields that they find interesting. This will be a proper head start, and later when they are sure, guidance can be sought by Fedora Join SIG members. An assembly of all the required resources at one platform will not only help the newcomer to get a clear idea of what he/she will be doing with the different areas in the Fedora community, it will also help clear the doubts of the necessary question that might be running without the acknowledgment of any third person (sometimes starter who are beginners to open source feel shy to talk in a public platform).
I agree with most of this. I only have one point to note. Traditionally, when newcomers came, they already went straight to the onboarding process. (CommOps spent a lot of resources on helping each team improve their onboarding documentation). This wasn't working too well. People came in, jumped straight to tasks. The expectation was that through these tasks, they'd get integrated in the community.
The problems were: - first, most newcomers, who you correctly identify as shy, are also too timid to take up tickets; - next, if they do, they're still too shy to ask queries. - third, if they don't make friends in the community, after their few tasks, they leave.
So, we flipped this around. We don't want people to take up tasks and then meet people. We want them to first become Fedora community members, meet the people, and *then* take up tasks.
Hopefully, our new process reflects this idea :)
The new ticket template now includes information to help newcomers learn about FOSS and the community. It can be seen here. Please feel free to suggest improvements to this.
https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Welcome-to-Fedora/new_issue
Proposed Solution Planning a better New comer’s landing page WIP: https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Fedora-Join/issue/160 We should update this https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join to provide the redirection saying it is not maintained, for recent update go to this https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Fedora-Join/issue/161 New Comer Landing page should have these proper redirections to these since these pages any newcomer would need to know Fedora well.
+1. This is still a WIP. Ideally, the landing page should be this: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/join/
As you see in #161, there is a PR waiting on the council-docs for this. The PR also suggests that wiki/Join be moved to wiki/Roles, which is really what it is.
Wcidff (which also need an update) (https://whatcanidoforfedora.org/en/)
Some of the ideas @hhlp has suggested in the post would help I guess: https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/what-to-do-with-wcidff-warning/13302
Easy-fix (https://fedoraproject.org/easyfix/)
This works, but we only point people to this page when they sort of know a few people in the community and are comfortable enough to jump in to tickets/tasks.
Fedora-apps (https://apps.fedoraproject.org/)
As you note also, this won't be around for much longer. So we should wait to see what happens here before making any plans around it.
Ideation of getting consistent contributors for Fedora! Organizing an Outreach Program I was thinking if we could do an outreach program for a short span(like 40-60 days) once a year, which would be something similar to that of a GSoC/Outreachy, but it would be solely organized by Fedora.
It would draw the attention of people who want to be a part of the community and do great projects. It would be a great opportunity, where we could get potential long term contributors for Fedora.
We could incorporate projects that require prior attention like Wcidff Working on the Docs etc Source of Inspiration - Season of KDE(https://season.kde.org/)
Proposing Wcidff as a GSoC/Outreachy project would be a good idea. (More project related discussions is here https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/what-to-do-with-wcidff-warning/13302)
This sounds like a great idea but it is a very big one. We (the Join SIG) do not have the man power to run something of this magnitude, though. It'll need more of the community to help---how do we ensure that?
A proper guideline for contributors to get a detailed idea of the areas that wcidff has like Design, Artwork Requests, Coding, etc. (A docs.f.o would be great)
I'm not sure I understand this one. Could you please elaborate?
Converting this article to a docs.fp.o page might be helpful https://fedoramagazine.org/how-to-contribute-to-fedora/ (Suggestion- It might fit into CommOps docs https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/commops/ )
Maybe. It's a simpler version of wiki/Join, so maybe we can just add wiki/Join to the new-issue template? (I've personally always felt that wiki/Join was far too detailed and not appropriate for newcomers.)
Apps. Fedora (https://apps.fedoraproject.org/) is a great resource for boarders to get a clear idea of different applications Fedora. But eventually, the site might go down as CPE Team might not want to maintain it. So, we should either get an alternative or maintain it.
Someone is already working on it from what I remember.
These were some of the ideas I thought might need some limelight and some I personally want to present.
Any suggestions would be highly helpful!
Thanks---that is very useful. So, all our ideas/initiatives must keep in mind that fact that we're very limited on man-power. So, taking that into account, if we are to think about implementing these ideas, how would you prioritise them to make the most impact?
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 16:12:34 -0000, Alisha Mohanty wrote:
I agree with most of this. I only have one point to note. Traditionally, when newcomers came, they already went straight to the onboarding process. (CommOps spent a lot of resources on helping each team improve their onboarding documentation). This wasn't working too well. People came in, jumped straight to tasks. The expectation was that through these tasks, they'd get integrated in the community.
The problems were:
- first, most newcomers, who you correctly identify as shy, are also too timid to take up tickets;
- next, if they do, they're still too shy to ask queries.
- third, if they don't make friends in the community, after their few tasks, they leave.
So, we flipped this around. We don't want people to take up tasks and then meet people. We want them to first become Fedora community members, meet the people, and *then* take up tasks.
Hopefully, our new process reflects this idea :)
The new ticket template now includes information to help newcomers learn about FOSS and the community. It can be seen here. Please feel free to suggest improvements to this.
Thanks for the clear outlay of the objectives. So, for now, I can clearly see we are heading towards the right direction (with tracking their journey through Tickets). I was thinking if we can add the below links to the template which will also help newcomers. whaticandoforfedora(https://whatcanidoforfedora.org/) Fedora Apps(https://apps.fedoraproject.org/) (optional) How to contribute to Fedora? ( https://fedoramagazine.org/how-to-contribute-to-fedora/)
In addition to the community links to help to get to know Fedora Community, these links will make them stick to the purpose of onboarding. Let me know what you think regarding adding these links?
+1. This is still a WIP. Ideally, the landing page should be this: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/join/
As you see in #161, there is a PR waiting on the council-docs for this. The PR also suggests that wiki/Join be moved to wiki/Roles, which is really what it is.
I took a look into the discussion for the Fedora Mission https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/council-docs/pull-request/63# . I think we should take a progress check on the ticket. What do you think?
Some of the ideas @hhlp has suggested in the post would help I guess: https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/what-to-do-with-wcidff-warning/13302
This works, but we only point people to this page when they sort of know a few people in the community and are comfortable enough to jump in to tickets/tasks.
As you note also, this won't be around for much longer. So we should wait to see what happens here before making any plans around it.
This sounds like a great idea but it is a very big one. We (the Join SIG) do not have the man power to run something of this magnitude, though. It'll need more of the community to help---how do we ensure that?
I am totally getting it. I this should be a later goal and not our priority for now.
I'm not sure I understand this one. Could you please elaborate?
I meant, the areas which are introduced in https://whatcanidoforfedora.org/en like design, community ops, coding should be described properly. For example, what the group does, who can be a part of it, what is the aim of the group, etc. Currently, we don't have any page which clearly tells about the different areas. Am I making sense? Are you able to get what I am trying to convey?
Also, for the easy fix, what do you think will be the requirements to make update once in a while ? I am up for finding some time regularly to check on the status of tickets issued in the easyfix with your and other Fedora Join SIG member’s help. I was thinking if the easyfix requires the community people to jump into and add some tickets, how about posting it in Fedora Program Update weekly posted in Fedora Community Blog to draw attention of people in the community. I am not sure if it's the right place to do it, but this can be a good way to keep it updated and under attention. Let me know what are your views regarding it.
Maybe. It's a simpler version of wiki/Join, so maybe we can just add wiki/Join to the new-issue template? (I've personally always felt that wiki/Join was far too detailed and not appropriate for newcomers.)
Someone is already working on it from what I remember.
Thanks---that is very useful. So, all our ideas/initiatives must keep in mind that fact that we're very limited on man-power. So, taking that into account, if we are to think about implementing these ideas, how would you prioritize them to make the most impact?
For what I am seeing, there are a couple of things that are dependent on others, which might take a while to get started. Shortlisting these, from all of the ideas which we can do for now, 1. Update the ticket-template 2. Try to update the easy fix
Thanks Alisha
On Sun, Feb 09, 2020 14:13:57 -0000, Alisha Mohanty wrote:
<snip>
Thanks for the clear outlay of the objectives. So, for now, I can clearly see we are heading towards the right direction (with tracking their journey through Tickets). I was thinking if we can add the below links to the template which will also help newcomers.
whaticandoforfedora(https://whatcanidoforfedora.org/) Fedora Apps(https://apps.fedoraproject.org/) (optional) How to contribute to Fedora? ( https://fedoramagazine.org/how-to-contribute-to-fedora/)
In addition to the community links to help to get to know Fedora Community, these links will make them stick to the purpose of onboarding. Let me know what you think regarding adding these links?
Hrm, I was thinking that after the introduction has been received (tagged: S: Introduced myself), we could move on to the "how to contribute to fedora" link.
That way, they:
- first learn about FOSS and Fedora in general - then, we get them slowly started with "how to contribute".
If we give them this link right at the start, they are likely to skip all the others and try to find tasks again.
The apps link is useful for people that show interest in the infra side of things. Otherwise, it'll be "too much information".
I'd leave wcidff as the last one, and the optional one. It again tries to point people *quickly* to teams and tasks without people speaking to us. So, this sort of goes against the idea of letting them get comfortable with the people of Fedora first.
What do you think?
+1. This is still a WIP. Ideally, the landing page should be this: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/join/
As you see in #161, there is a PR waiting on the council-docs for this. The PR also suggests that wiki/Join be moved to wiki/Roles, which is really what it is.
I took a look into the discussion for the Fedora Mission https://pagure.io/Fedora-Council/council-docs/pull-request/63# . I think we should take a progress check on the ticket. What do you think?
+1, always good to bump tickets. As we'll all have seen, the Council are working on the Vision statement at the moment, and I expect once that task is complete, the rest of all this will also be done, since it's all related. Feel free to bump the ticket though :)
Some of the ideas @hhlp has suggested in the post would help I guess: https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/what-to-do-with-wcidff-warning/13302
This works, but we only point people to this page when they sort of know a few people in the community and are comfortable enough to jump in to tickets/tasks.
As you note also, this won't be around for much longer. So we should wait to see what happens here before making any plans around it.
This sounds like a great idea but it is a very big one. We (the Join SIG) do not have the man power to run something of this magnitude, though. It'll need more of the community to help---how do we ensure that?
I am totally getting it. I this should be a later goal and not our priority for now.
Awesome :)
I'm not sure I understand this one. Could you please elaborate?
I meant, the areas which are introduced in https://whatcanidoforfedora.org/en like design, community ops, coding should be described properly. For example, what the group does, who can be a part of it, what is the aim of the group, etc. Currently, we don't have any page which clearly tells about the different areas. Am I making sense? Are you able to get what I am trying to convey?
This is meant to be it: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join
It includes:
- roles, - requirements, - tasks, - teams linked to roles,
It's basically a one page version of wcidff. I'm not a fan of this either. It throws everything there is to do at people, and that doesn't help newbies---probably confuses them.
Each team has their own bits on the wiki or docs, and this at the moment cannot be helped. The "Hubs" project was supposed to be sort of a centralised app to help with all this, but that got shelved.o
https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/
Also, for the easy fix, what do you think will be the requirements to make update once in a while ? I am up for finding some time regularly to check on the status of tickets issued in the easyfix with your and other Fedora Join SIG member’s help. I was thinking if the easyfix requires the community people to jump into and add some tickets, how about posting it in Fedora Program Update weekly posted in Fedora Community Blog to draw attention of people in the community. I am not sure if it's the right place to do it, but this can be a good way to keep it updated and under attention. Let me know what are your views regarding it.
At the moment, Easyfix is a static page that is simply regenerated regularly:
https://github.com/fedora-infra/fedora-gather-easyfix
It can certainly be improved to make it more useful. It doesn't give us any information on whether the tasks are being accepted and completed:
- does not mark new tasks, - does not tell us how many new tasks were added, and when, - does not tell us what tasks were taken up by people and completed.
So, we can't easily write a blog post each week that says "New tasks added this week". It'll have to be done manually at the moment.
Maybe. It's a simpler version of wiki/Join, so maybe we can just add wiki/Join to the new-issue template? (I've personally always felt that wiki/Join was far too detailed and not appropriate for newcomers.)
Someone is already working on it from what I remember.
Thanks---that is very useful. So, all our ideas/initiatives must keep in mind that fact that we're very limited on man-power. So, taking that into account, if we are to think about implementing these ideas, how would you prioritize them to make the most impact?
For what I am seeing, there are a couple of things that are dependent on others, which might take a while to get started. Shortlisting these, from all of the ideas which we can do for now,
- Update the ticket-template
- Try to update the easy fix
+1: tasks that can be done quickly and have high impacts.
Should we discuss improvements to easyfix in a new thread?
On Sun, Feb 09, 2020 14:13:57 -0000, Alisha Mohanty wrote:
Hrm, I was thinking that after the introduction has been received (tagged: S: Introduced myself), we could move on to the "how to contribute to fedora" link.
That way, they:
- first learn about FOSS and Fedora in general
- then, we get them slowly started with "how to contribute".
If we give them this link right at the start, they are likely to skip all the others and try to find tasks again.
The apps link is useful for people that show interest in the infra side of things. Otherwise, it'll be "too much information".
I'd leave wcidff as the last one, and the optional one. It again tries to point people *quickly* to teams and tasks without people speaking to us. So, this sort of goes against the idea of letting them get comfortable with the people of Fedora first.
What do you think?
I totally agree with you, with the idea of getting familiar with the community first is great. As you said we should be helping people with links after they have introduced themselves. Should we open a ticket to update with the rest of the community? Let me know how do you plan to take forward this step.
+1, always good to bump tickets. As we'll all have seen, the Council are working on the Vision statement at the moment, and I expect once that task is complete, the rest of all this will also be done, since it's all related. Feel free to bump the ticket though :)
Sure. I will do a quick update on the ticket.
Awesome :)
This is meant to be it: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join
It includes:
- roles,
- requirements,
- tasks,
- teams linked to roles,
It's basically a one page version of wcidff. I'm not a fan of this either. It throws everything there is to do at people, and that doesn't help newbies---probably confuses them.
Each team has their own bits on the wiki or docs, and this at the moment cannot be helped. The "Hubs" project was supposed to be sort of a centralised app to help with all this, but that got shelved.o
https://pagure.io/fedora-hubs/
At the moment, Easyfix is a static page that is simply regenerated regularly:
https://github.com/fedora-infra/fedora-gather-easyfix
It can certainly be improved to make it more useful. It doesn't give us any information on whether the tasks are being accepted and completed:
- does not mark new tasks,
- does not tell us how many new tasks were added, and when,
- does not tell us what tasks were taken up by people and completed.
So, we can't easily write a blog post each week that says "New tasks added this week". It'll have to be done manually at the moment.
+1: tasks that can be done quickly and have high impacts.
Should we discuss improvements to easyfix in a new thread?
+1. Please tag me when you create a new thread. I will try to find some ideas for its betterment, but a head start with some initial ideation by you will be great.
Let me know if you have any other plans. For now we can focus on the easy fix.
Thanks Alisha
Hello Alisha and Ankur,
I’ve recently joined the CommOps group for discussing about a potential GSoC project (you might have known me as paraxor on the Join SIG channel) and am redirected by JFlory (Justin W.Flory) to discuss the same with you.
My proposal is to Design and Redo/Renovate the current WCIDFF site. I’ve made some progress in listing out all the current objectives and obstacles, so that one can decide if this might seem too broad and out of scope for a GSoC project. If someone is interested and is kind enough to see this as a potential project (as I feel this must last at-least 5 years with continuous support and maintenance), please do reach out!
As for the deliverables, one can start out as:
* Revamp the UI to build the best possible experience users * Building initial mockups and gather community feedback * Automation of issuing tickets from related administrators etc (Just a start)
I’ve linked a PDF of what can be done, please look into this. PDF: https://drive.google.com/open?id=16tKvXUka09ivHvHVfpH73--jw3PVgdQ_
Regards, paraxor.
On Thu, Feb 06, 2020 14:41:22 -0000, Aniketh Reddimi wrote:
Hello Alisha and Ankur,
Hi Aniketh,
Thank for looking into this.
I’ve recently joined the CommOps group for discussing about a potential GSoC project (you might have known me as paraxor on the Join SIG channel) and am redirected by JFlory (Justin W.Flory) to discuss the same with you.
My proposal is to Design and Redo/Renovate the current WCIDFF site. I’ve made some progress in listing out all the current objectives and obstacles, so that one can decide if this might seem too broad and out of scope for a GSoC project. If someone is interested and is kind enough to see this as a potential project (as I feel this must last at-least 5 years with continuous support and maintenance), please do reach out!
As for the deliverables, one can start out as:
- Revamp the UI to build the best possible experience users
- Building initial mockups and gather community feedback
- Automation of issuing tickets from related administrators etc (Just a start)
I’ve linked a PDF of what can be done, please look into this. PDF: https://drive.google.com/open?id=16tKvXUka09ivHvHVfpH73--jw3PVgdQ_
This is a good, but generic web-app plan. wcidff by design is plain HTML/CSS/JS, a static site without databases/openshift/docker or anything of that sort. The most important part: how are you improving wcidff seems to be missing from this document. We don't need it to be faster or flashier or use 5 different internet technologies, we simply need it to be more useful to newcomers. So if you want to investigate this as a potential project, maybe you should start with user-stories first (requirements?).
Anyway, as you'll see from my other replies to the list, I, unfortunately, don't think that wcidff is the best platform for newbies to start with. We're trying to work on a system where people join the Fedora community first---without thinking of contributing at all---and then as they hear more about how Fedora does things, they can find tasks that interest them and work on them.
So, with that in mind, I don't think revamping wcidff is worth the resources. It is OK in its current state, and there's some discussion to make it a little better with a little bit of effort: https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/what-to-do-with-wcidff-warning/13302
Of course, others in the community may think differently. I won't be able to mentor projects this GSoC anyway, so I'm not the best person to discuss this with :)
fedora-join@lists.fedoraproject.org
-
Alisha Mohanty -
Aniketh Reddimi -
Ankur Sinha