-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
Hiya,
I hope everyone had a good holiday. I'm still on a vacation of sorts, but since most folks are back, I thought I'd get the ball rolling ASAP. So here it is:
Fedora Join stage 2 ###################
Objective - ----------
The objective of this stage is to carry on from stage 1 (making Fedora Join visible to the community). In stage 1, we published and announced on the community channels - the community blog, the announce mailing list. The intention was to make the community aware that we are preparing a channel where newbies and community members can interact.
In stage 2, now that we've the channels and some community members ready to help, we announce the channels to the public. So, in a sentence, stage 2 says "Tell the world about Fedora Join!".
How ###
We'll need to use the public facing channels for this one. Announcements should go out on these:
- - Fedora magazine - - Users mailing list - - Web forums: - Ask Fedora - Fedoraforum.org
- - It'll be awesome if we can add a note about Fedora Join on wcidff too. I'd opened a ticket long ago here already: https://github.com/fedo ra-infra/asknot-ng/issues/75
Are there any other channels that we can use to make ourselves more visible outside the community?
Other stuff ###########
Here are some other things we've discussed in the past. Please feel free to add more, and chime in with your views (start new threads too!). Think of these as ideas for the long term?
- - Mentoring
I think a lot of us want to bring this back, but we're still to settle on how we'd match newbies to mentors and so on. Keeping in mind that mentoring existed before and died out, it'll be nice if we can come up with a sustainable process. An important part of this is ensuring that we constantly have new newbies and new mentors coming in so that the overall numbers remain constant from cycle to cycle, year to year.
- - Web stuff (requires input from the websites and design teams, at least)
I still think a nice web overview of the community would give people outside the community a good insight into our interactions, and in turn, this would make it easier for them to join us. What do folks think of modifying fedoracommunity.org to depict the community in different views:
- - by roles - - by teams - - by region
At the moment, it feels like it's limited to ambassadors only, and only serves to collect regional websites.
(I suggest modifying fedoracommunity.org instead of setting up a new join.fp.o as before because the general feeling in the community seems to be that we already have too many web resources and any more are either surplus or unmanageable.)
- - Classrooms
Anyone for bringing these back? They were great to get folks started (I started contributing through a font packaging classroom session myself!).
So, what do we do next? ########################
It'll be great if we can discuss these on the ML to begin with, and then follow the usual "ticket-meeting-task-repeat" system over pagure?
- -- Thanks, Regards, Ankur Sinha "FranciscoD"
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha
On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 01:41:55PM +0000, Ankur Sinha wrote:
Objective
Have you considered proposing this to the Fedora Council as a project-level objective? The Join group could still be the focus, but it'd help message this as important across all of Fedora and highlight it as a priority for other groups as well.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
Hi Matthew,
On Wed, 2017-01-18 at 09:39 -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
Have you considered proposing this to the Fedora Council as a project-level objective? The Join group could still be the focus, but it'd help message this as important across all of Fedora and highlight it as a priority for other groups as well.
It's a great idea, and no, we hadn't thought of this yet :/
I've added it to our bucket list. I'll try and keep things ready so that we can churn out actions and responsibilities in the next meeting:
https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Fedora-Join/issue/19 - -- Thanks, Regards, Ankur Sinha "FranciscoD"
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha
On 01/18/2017 02:41 PM, Ankur Sinha wrote:
Hiya,
I hope everyone had a good holiday. I'm still on a vacation of sorts, but since most folks are back, I thought I'd get the ball rolling ASAP. So here it is:
Hey Ankur, thanks for getting the ball rolling. I think many of us have been having a busy start to 2017, which might attribute to some of the quietness.
Fedora Join stage 2 ###################
Objective
The objective of this stage is to carry on from stage 1 (making Fedora Join visible to the community). In stage 1, we published and announced on the community channels - the community blog, the announce mailing list. The intention was to make the community aware that we are preparing a channel where newbies and community members can interact.
In stage 2, now that we've the channels and some community members ready to help, we announce the channels to the public. So, in a sentence, stage 2 says "Tell the world about Fedora Join!".
How ###
We'll need to use the public facing channels for this one. Announcements should go out on these:
- Fedora magazine
- Users mailing list
- Web forums:
- Ask Fedora
- Fedoraforum.org
Something that Brian Exelbierd and I have been discussing is the idea of a "Help Wanted Wednesday" series either on the Community Blog or Fedora Magazine. The idea of this would be to highlight some "easyfix" sort of tasks that we could wave newcomers towards when they ask about something to get started with.
Additionally, the motive behind this effort wasn't to have contributors scouting out easyfix tickets, but rather, to have contributors bring them to the team / group that would compile the series. This way, the stress isn't loaded onto a small number of people, but rather, multiple people from various parts of the community would be motivated to bring their easyfix tickets or issues to us so that way they can gain interested newcomers to their parts of the project.
This idea is hardly fleshed out or discussed much, but perhaps this is something we could try to make a goal for the Join SIG or work closely with CommOps to make it happen.
If we have active folks in other parts of Fedora, like the Fedora Forums, Reddit, or more places, we can encourage them to share these posts there. And there could be a tie-in to promote the Join SIG as the "go-to" place if you have problems or questions while getting started.
- It'll be awesome if we can add a note about Fedora Join on wcidff
too. I'd opened a ticket long ago here already: https://github.com/fedo ra-infra/asknot-ng/issues/75
Are there any other channels that we can use to make ourselves more visible outside the community?
I definitely think Telegram has a strong potential, especially the unofficial Fedora group. It is larger than our IRC channel by the hundreds – we're close to hitting the 700 member mark soon. I also think there is a notable number of folks there who are interested in contributing, but might need to be reeled in or given direction to get started. Finding a way to target this group of users could be a good idea.
Other platforms we could use would be social media accounts and Reddit. There's probably more too, if I went digging for a bit.
Other stuff ###########
Here are some other things we've discussed in the past. Please feel free to add more, and chime in with your views (start new threads too!). Think of these as ideas for the long term?
- Mentoring
I think a lot of us want to bring this back, but we're still to settle on how we'd match newbies to mentors and so on. Keeping in mind that mentoring existed before and died out, it'll be nice if we can come up with a sustainable process. An important part of this is ensuring that we constantly have new newbies and new mentors coming in so that the overall numbers remain constant from cycle to cycle, year to year.
I definitely think the ultimate priority for discussing this should be making it sustainable. I love the idea of a mentoring program, but as past experiences has shown us, people get burnt out and we don't have a good way of bringing in more mentors. This could be a good goal for a next meeting (I know we've fallen off a bit with them, but we should definitely get the ball rolling again once you're back on a regular schedule, Ankur).
- Web stuff (requires input from the websites and design teams, at
least)
I still think a nice web overview of the community would give people outside the community a good insight into our interactions, and in turn, this would make it easier for them to join us. What do folks think of modifying fedoracommunity.org to depict the community in different views:
- by roles
- by teams
- by region
At the moment, it feels like it's limited to ambassadors only, and only serves to collect regional websites.
(I suggest modifying fedoracommunity.org instead of setting up a new join.fp.o as before because the general feeling in the community seems to be that we already have too many web resources and any more are either surplus or unmanageable.)
I like this idea as well, but I'm wondering if this is something we will be able to feasibly pull off. I'm leaning towards saying this is something to place onto the backburner and revisit after we reach some of the other goals mentioned above.
- Classrooms
Anyone for bringing these back? They were great to get folks started (I started contributing through a font packaging classroom session myself!).
Personally, I love the idea and think we could pull this off if we have some clear on-boarding for existing contributors to run a classroom without too much effort. Fedora Infrastructure already has a "Learn it!" part of their agenda, where a member can volunteer to use part of the meeting to explain a new concept and have other Infra members ask questions. Patrick Uiterwijk did an excellent one on some of the authentication tools used in Fedora, so it could be a good idea to warm up with them with some of the ones from the past in Infra.
In either case, getting some sort of "classroom how-to" is definitely an attainable goal for the coming month or two, and perhaps we could try to set a deadline for when we would want to try attempting the next classroom.
So, what do we do next? ########################
It'll be great if we can discuss these on the ML to begin with, and then follow the usual "ticket-meeting-task-repeat" system over pagure?
I apologize for the slow response here. Keeping up over the holidays was more difficult than I anticipated and I'm still getting unburied from late December / early January emails. But I should start being a little more present in coming weeks, especially after FOSDEM concludes on Feb. 5th.
Thanks for your time writing this all up, Ankur! Hope you had an excellent holiday and New Year as well.
On 01/19/2017 06:21 AM, Ankur Sinha wrote:
Hi Matthew,
On Wed, 2017-01-18 at 09:39 -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
Have you considered proposing this to the Fedora Council as a project-level objective? The Join group could still be the focus, but it'd help message this as important across all of Fedora and highlight it as a priority for other groups as well.
It's a great idea, and no, we hadn't thought of this yet :/
I've added it to our bucket list. I'll try and keep things ready so that we can churn out actions and responsibilities in the next meeting:
This would be an interesting idea too and could help bring a wider scope of focus towards this. I think part of the issues with the Join SIG is that there are two types of people who want to help: people who want to just help guide newcomers and point them the right way, and then a smaller number who also want to help with the strategy and coordination of the SIG. A Council objective might help bring us more of the latter type of people, which I think would greatly help for us meeting some of the goals that Ankur typed up in his full email.
On Mon, Jan 23, 2017, at 09:48 PM, Justin W. Flory wrote:
On 01/18/2017 02:41 PM, Ankur Sinha wrote:
Hiya,
I hope everyone had a good holiday. I'm still on a vacation of sorts, but since most folks are back, I thought I'd get the ball rolling ASAP. So here it is:
I'll drop a +1 here for considering making this a larger objective in the Project.
Hey Ankur, thanks for getting the ball rolling. I think many of us have been having a busy start to 2017, which might attribute to some of the quietness.
Fedora Join stage 2 ###################
Objective
The objective of this stage is to carry on from stage 1 (making Fedora Join visible to the community). In stage 1, we published and announced on the community channels - the community blog, the announce mailing list. The intention was to make the community aware that we are preparing a channel where newbies and community members can interact.
In stage 2, now that we've the channels and some community members ready to help, we announce the channels to the public. So, in a sentence, stage 2 says "Tell the world about Fedora Join!".
How ###
We'll need to use the public facing channels for this one. Announcements should go out on these:
- Fedora magazine
- Users mailing list
- Web forums:
- Ask Fedora
- Fedoraforum.org
Something that Brian Exelbierd and I have been discussing is the idea of a "Help Wanted Wednesday" series either on the Community Blog or Fedora Magazine. The idea of this would be to highlight some "easyfix" sort of tasks that we could wave newcomers towards when they ask about something to get started with.
Additionally, the motive behind this effort wasn't to have contributors scouting out easyfix tickets, but rather, to have contributors bring them to the team / group that would compile the series. This way, the stress isn't loaded onto a small number of people, but rather, multiple people from various parts of the community would be motivated to bring their easyfix tickets or issues to us so that way they can gain interested newcomers to their parts of the project.
This idea is hardly fleshed out or discussed much, but perhaps this is something we could try to make a goal for the Join SIG or work closely with CommOps to make it happen.
I think having Join+CommOps work together on this would be useful. I think it is critical that this (like your mentoring comments below) become somewhat self-sustaining and not require constant effort from a small group to keep it rolling.
For more details (scant) on my thinking see https://pagure.io/fedora-commops/issue/100
If we have active folks in other parts of Fedora, like the Fedora Forums, Reddit, or more places, we can encourage them to share these posts there. And there could be a tie-in to promote the Join SIG as the "go-to" place if you have problems or questions while getting started.
- It'll be awesome if we can add a note about Fedora Join on wcidff
too. I'd opened a ticket long ago here already: https://github.com/fedo ra-infra/asknot-ng/issues/75
Are there any other channels that we can use to make ourselves more visible outside the community?
I definitely think Telegram has a strong potential, especially the unofficial Fedora group. It is larger than our IRC channel by the hundreds – we're close to hitting the 700 member mark soon. I also think there is a notable number of folks there who are interested in contributing, but might need to be reeled in or given direction to get started. Finding a way to target this group of users could be a good idea.
Other platforms we could use would be social media accounts and Reddit. There's probably more too, if I went digging for a bit.
I think in all of your ideas you are emphasizing making a fast and direct connection. I hope we can work out that process before turn on the promotion machine.
Other stuff ###########
Here are some other things we've discussed in the past. Please feel free to add more, and chime in with your views (start new threads too!). Think of these as ideas for the long term?
- Mentoring
I think a lot of us want to bring this back, but we're still to settle on how we'd match newbies to mentors and so on. Keeping in mind that mentoring existed before and died out, it'll be nice if we can come up with a sustainable process. An important part of this is ensuring that we constantly have new newbies and new mentors coming in so that the overall numbers remain constant from cycle to cycle, year to year.
I definitely think the ultimate priority for discussing this should be making it sustainable. I love the idea of a mentoring program, but as past experiences has shown us, people get burnt out and we don't have a good way of bringing in more mentors. This could be a good goal for a next meeting (I know we've fallen off a bit with them, but we should definitely get the ball rolling again once you're back on a regular schedule, Ankur).
- Web stuff (requires input from the websites and design teams, at
least)
I still think a nice web overview of the community would give people outside the community a good insight into our interactions, and in turn, this would make it easier for them to join us. What do folks think of modifying fedoracommunity.org to depict the community in different views:
- by roles
- by teams
- by region
At the moment, it feels like it's limited to ambassadors only, and only serves to collect regional websites.
(I suggest modifying fedoracommunity.org instead of setting up a new join.fp.o as before because the general feeling in the community seems to be that we already have too many web resources and any more are either surplus or unmanageable.)
Everytime I turn around I feel like someone points out yet another Fedora web property or presence that is not well connected. This one may even be on the bottom of fedoraproject.org but I suspect it isn't visited. I'd love to see join audit for websites that are likely entry points and see if they can work with the web group to determine usage statistics and update statistics. I have this nagging feeling we may be spread thin - but I'd love to be proven wrong with facts.
I like this idea as well, but I'm wondering if this is something we will be able to feasibly pull off. I'm leaning towards saying this is something to place onto the backburner and revisit after we reach some of the other goals mentioned above.
- Classrooms
Anyone for bringing these back? They were great to get folks started (I started contributing through a font packaging classroom session myself!).
Personally, I love the idea and think we could pull this off if we have some clear on-boarding for existing contributors to run a classroom without too much effort. Fedora Infrastructure already has a "Learn it!" part of their agenda, where a member can volunteer to use part of the meeting to explain a new concept and have other Infra members ask questions. Patrick Uiterwijk did an excellent one on some of the authentication tools used in Fedora, so it could be a good idea to warm up with them with some of the ones from the past in Infra.
In either case, getting some sort of "classroom how-to" is definitely an attainable goal for the coming month or two, and perhaps we could try to set a deadline for when we would want to try attempting the next classroom.
A classroom how too is a good plan. Should we consider making this something that we can leverage the community of a larger edu focused site with too? I am not suggesting we think "University" but advertising a lesson on a larger community site will increase the likelihood of new users/contributors joining.
regards,
bex
So, what do we do next? ########################
It'll be great if we can discuss these on the ML to begin with, and then follow the usual "ticket-meeting-task-repeat" system over pagure?
I apologize for the slow response here. Keeping up over the holidays was more difficult than I anticipated and I'm still getting unburied from late December / early January emails. But I should start being a little more present in coming weeks, especially after FOSDEM concludes on Feb. 5th.
Thanks for your time writing this all up, Ankur! Hope you had an excellent holiday and New Year as well.
-- Cheers, Justin W. Flory jflory7@gmail.com
Email had 1 attachment:
- signature.asc 1k (application/pgp-signature)
On Mon, 2017-01-23 at 20:50 +0000, Justin W. Flory wrote:
This would be an interesting idea too and could help bring a wider scope of focus towards this. I think part of the issues with the Join SIG is that there are two types of people who want to help: people who want to just help guide newcomers and point them the right way, and then a smaller number who also want to help with the strategy and coordination of the SIG. A Council objective might help bring us more of the latter type of people, which I think would greatly help for us meeting some of the goals that Ankur typed up in his full email.
+1.
On Mon, 2017-01-23 at 20:48 +0000, Justin W. Flory wrote:
On 01/18/2017 02:41 PM, Ankur Sinha wrote:
Hiya,
<snip>
Hey Ankur, thanks for getting the ball rolling. I think many of us have been having a busy start to 2017, which might attribute to some of the quietness.
Yea - I'm still buried under piles of answer scripts to mark. I haven't even managed to work on my PhD research this week!! :(
<snip>
Something that Brian Exelbierd and I have been discussing is the idea of a "Help Wanted Wednesday" series either on the Community Blog or Fedora Magazine. The idea of this would be to highlight some "easyfix" sort of tasks that we could wave newcomers towards when they ask about something to get started with.
Additionally, the motive behind this effort wasn't to have contributors scouting out easyfix tickets, but rather, to have contributors bring them to the team / group that would compile the series. This way, the stress isn't loaded onto a small number of people, but rather, multiple people from various parts of the community would be motivated to bring their easyfix tickets or issues to us so that way they can gain interested newcomers to their parts of the project.
This idea is hardly fleshed out or discussed much, but perhaps this is something we could try to make a goal for the Join SIG or work closely with CommOps to make it happen.
That sounds like a good idea. As always, I'm worried about the work that'll be needed, and who will do it. We already have "easyfix" and I expect it's been around long enough for the community to be aware of it. Some metrics on whether people are aware of easyfix and whether it's being used or not in projects would get us a better idea - more work, though. Devs may not want to take the extra step of getting in touch with a team to promote their tasks - it's extra work.
Do you think we could start with a automated post (maybe bi-weekly "New easyfix tasks that need your help"?) or an RSS feed of easy fix tasks to promote "easyfix" first (on start.fp.o or the planet)?
Idea: reward folks that mark tasks as "easyfix" with a badge series Idea: reward folks that take up "easyfix" tasks with badges too
these don't already exist, do they?
If we have active folks in other parts of Fedora, like the Fedora Forums, Reddit, or more places, we can encourage them to share these posts there. And there could be a tie-in to promote the Join SIG as the "go-to" place if you have problems or questions while getting started.
This would be great. We certainly have quite a presence in various social media networks. For reference:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_social_networks
- It'll be awesome if we can add a note about Fedora Join on wcidff
too. I'd opened a ticket long ago here already: https://github.com/ fedo ra-infra/asknot-ng/issues/75
Are there any other channels that we can use to make ourselves more visible outside the community?
I definitely think Telegram has a strong potential, especially the unofficial Fedora group. It is larger than our IRC channel by the hundreds – we're close to hitting the 700 member mark soon. I also think there is a notable number of folks there who are interested in contributing, but might need to be reeled in or given direction to get started. Finding a way to target this group of users could be a good idea.
Other platforms we could use would be social media accounts and Reddit. There's probably more too, if I went digging for a bit.
Ah! Yes! I forgot Telegram! I'm in the group too, but I really haven't been able to monitor it too often. I do like telegram, but like everything else, people have their preferences. Not a lot of my non techie friends are on it, for example.
#fedora on IRC at the moment has about 600 people in it:
13:38 -!- Irssi: #fedora: Total of 611 nicks [2 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 609 normal]
I remember reading something about hubs and IRC (probably this: https://meghanrichardson.wordpress.com/2015/06/17/irc-on-hubs/ ), so we should continue to keep IRC in our plans. It may seem more dev oriented, but once the hubs provide a nice front end to our various channels, it should be a lot easier for people to get on to them.
<snip>
- Mentoring
<snip>
I definitely think the ultimate priority for discussing this should be making it sustainable. I love the idea of a mentoring program, but as past experiences has shown us, people get burnt out and we don't have a good way of bringing in more mentors. This could be a good goal for a next meeting (I know we've fallen off a bit with them, but we should definitely get the ball rolling again once you're back on a regular schedule, Ankur).
We've got this here. Let's begin adding our comments to it in the meantime:
https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Fedora-Join/issue/18
<snip>
I like this idea as well, but I'm wondering if this is something we will be able to feasibly pull off. I'm leaning towards saying this is something to place onto the backburner and revisit after we reach some of the other goals mentioned above.
Yea. This is in the "nice to have" bucket. Related tickets:
https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Fedora-Join/issue/15
https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Fedora-Join/issue/20
- Classrooms
Anyone for bringing these back? They were great to get folks started (I started contributing through a font packaging classroom session myself!).
Personally, I love the idea and think we could pull this off if we have some clear on-boarding for existing contributors to run a classroom without too much effort. Fedora Infrastructure already has a "Learn it!" part of their agenda, where a member can volunteer to use part of the meeting to explain a new concept and have other Infra members ask questions. Patrick Uiterwijk did an excellent one on some of the authentication tools used in Fedora, so it could be a good idea to warm up with them with some of the ones from the past in Infra.
In either case, getting some sort of "classroom how-to" is definitely an attainable goal for the coming month or two, and perhaps we could try to set a deadline for when we would want to try attempting the next classroom.
I think there's enough to restart class room sessions already:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Classroom
It used to work really well. It's just dormant due to the lack of activity.
Idea: reward classroom teacher with a badge series Idea: reward people that attend classrooms with badges too
<snip>
I apologize for the slow response here. Keeping up over the holidays was more difficult than I anticipated and I'm still getting unburied from late December / early January emails. But I should start being a little more present in coming weeks, especially after FOSDEM concludes on Feb. 5th.
Thanks for your time writing this all up, Ankur! Hope you had an excellent holiday and New Year as well.
I hope to be more regular too, although, my PhD controls my cycles so we'll have to wait and see. I hope we can bring in enough folks so that the work is distributed well enough to make our activities sustainable. One or two of us running this isn't going to work in the long term.
On Mon, 2017-01-23 at 22:56 +0100, Brian Exelbierd wrote:
On Mon, Jan 23, 2017, at 09:48 PM, Justin W. Flory wrote:
On 01/18/2017 02:41 PM, Ankur Sinha wrote:
Hiya,
I hope everyone had a good holiday. I'm still on a vacation of sorts, but since most folks are back, I thought I'd get the ball rolling ASAP. So here it is:
I'll drop a +1 here for considering making this a larger objective in the Project.
I'm all for this too, obviously, but I really cannot commit to the work it'll require. :/
<snip>
I think having Join+CommOps work together on this would be useful. I think it is critical that this (like your mentoring comments below) become somewhat self-sustaining and not require constant effort from a small group to keep it rolling.
For more details (scant) on my thinking see https://pagure.io/fedora-commops/issue/100
Ah - will go through it tomorrow, hopefully and see if I can contribute in some way.
<snip>
Everytime I turn around I feel like someone points out yet another Fedora web property or presence that is not well connected. This one may even be on the bottom of fedoraproject.org but I suspect it isn't visited. I'd love to see join audit for websites that are likely entry points and see if they can work with the web group to determine usage statistics and update statistics. I have this nagging feeling we may be spread thin - but I'd love to be proven wrong with facts.
Oh! I've been meaning to audit our web apps for a while now. I'd even begun to compare our sites to other open source projects such as Mozilla to see how they went about with their webspace. Adding this as another issue here:
https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Fedora-Join/issue/21
<snip>
A classroom how too is a good plan. Should we consider making this something that we can leverage the community of a larger edu focused site with too? I am not suggesting we think "University" but advertising a lesson on a larger community site will increase the likelihood of new users/contributors joining.
+100.
Most of the skills we use in the community are not really specific skills, and so, our classrooms teach quite general subjects. We really should put these out in the websphere more.
Do we think the Join SIG should take up responsibility of managing the classrooms? We're doing the mentoring too, so this seems like a coherent plan. I can start putting things into place on pagure if we think this is OK?
fedora-join@lists.fedoraproject.org
-
Ankur Sinha -
Brian Exelbierd -
Justin W. Flory -
Matthew Miller