Hi Wilbur,
Thank you for the detailed write up and force finding a few options
for renting the hardware. If we want to take a stab at VLC, I'm
happy to lend a hand and see what we can do. I've personally not
tried it in this configuration. I do have experience with FMLE, Wowza
and HW encoders here.
I'd agree that HW encoders will be the easiest option to get working
quickly, given our limited advanced knowledge and access to the
environment. I'll ask around the office for pointers on rental
options too.
If we do go with the webcams in the room instead, while the quality
will be lower - it does make Google Hangout a very easy option to
implement as well.
Ilan
On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Wilbur K Smith
<wilbur.k.smith(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Just to follow up on my previous note, it looks like we can rent a Teradek
Cube for about $175 per day each. If we rent a few units, we could possibly
negotiate a better deal. Here is one of the companies I've found that will
rent to unit:
http://www.radiantimages.com/index.php/monitors/wireless/hd-tx-rx/166-ter...
Wilbur
On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 12:21 PM, Wilbur K Smith <wilbur.k.smith(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Hello Folks,
>
> Sorry for taking a bit to write back, but I've learned a lot while
> researching possible video options.
>
> Finding the best camera solution that is also affordable is challenging:
>
> 1) We may be able to use digital SLR cameras to record and stream some
> of the sessions, but their are limitations
>
> o DLSRs have limitations on the amount they can record.
>
> § This is partially because of heat issues when running the sensor for
> long periods
>
> § The max size of the flash cards are also a problem; 16Gig will only
> give you an hour or so of recording
>
> § Some DSLRs sold in Europe limit the recording to 30 min per file. This
> is to avoid paying an extra tax if it is considered a “film camera” (this
> one surprised me!)
>
> o There are also limitations on using the Camera’s USB connection to
> grab video; it does not act like a standard USB webcam, so you need to jump
> though some hoops
>
> o If the camera supports it, you can stream to the camera’s micro-HDMI
> port, but you still need to capture that video and re-encode it before
> streaming
>
> 2) Using standard camcorders have some advantages over a DLSR
>
> o Some camcorders support capturing video live over the a FireWire port
>
> § This method uses a standard, similar to USB, so lots of encoders
> support it
>
> · Not every camcorder supports this though
>
> § You will also need a firewire port on the encoding device
>
> · Even if we ask to borrow hardware, it would need to have Firewire
> ports. Since USD3.0, not many modern laptops still ship with this
>
> o If we can’t rely on native Firewire capture, we still need to use an
> external capture device for encoding. More on this below.
>
> 3) Using USB webcams will give us the most flexibility, but at the
> cost of quality
>
> o USB cams will work with any PC, but most wont have the audio and video
> quality of a real camera
>
> o You’ll have to use computers for capture and a separate program may be
> needed to store a local copy
>
> § Disk space may be a problem based on the settings we choose
>
>
>
> About the encoding problem
>
>
>
> In all cases, we need to capture to video from the camera, encode it into
> a format supported by our streaming partner (on this point, Ooyala is
> actually pretty flexible), and stream it to the Internet. The three options
> we seem to have are:
>
>
>
> · A dedicated hardware encoder
>
> o Teradek’s Cube is an example of this. It supports all the common
> streaming and encoding standards. Depending on the model, it supports
> wireless and/or RJ-45 for network
>
> § It can only capture video from HDMI, SD-SDI, or HD-SDI. We can only use
> a camera that outputs video in one of these standards
>
> § The cheapest model is around $1,700 and you still need the camera, so
> it is a pricy solution.
>
> § Could we rent some of these vs. buying?
>
> · A combo Hardware/PC solution
>
> o This solution would use a PC with a video capture device to grab the
> video from the camera
>
> o Video capture cards are a popular way to do this, but needs a PCIe
> card, so Laptops are out.
>
> o Companies like Black Magic make external USB3.0 and Thunderbolt
> capture devices
>
> § On the up side, these usually support HDMI, component, and S-Video so
> it gives us the most flexibility with the cameras we choose.
>
> § You’ll need a PC with USB 3.0 to use this particular brand, so again
> we’ll be limited on what laptops or PCs we can use
>
> § They run about $200, so it is a more affordable option
>
> § You still need to run a software encoder program on the PC
>
> · A software only solution
>
> o This is really only an option if we only use USB webcams
>
> o The software encoder will just grab the video from the USB cam and
> upload to our streaming provider
>
> o We will have to also save the video locally if we want a hard copy, so
> disk space is a concern
>
> o Quality of the webcam will be the main limiting factor.
>
> o This is the cheapest option since we could probably borrow enough
> laptops and webcams, but quality will suffer
>
>
>
>
>
> With the exception of the Teradek solution, we will need a software
> encoder running on a PC. The simplest method that will work with Ooyala is
> Adobe Media Encoder. This is a free program and very strait forward, but it
> is not open-source and is PC and Mac only. The only FLOSS option I know of
> is VLC, but this is a bit complex to set up; we would need to test with it
> after we decide on a camera and capture solution.
>
>
>
>
>
> Some other thoughts:
>
> · Our best option may be to rent the equipment. Many online camera
> outfits rent this type of gear and it would help keep costs down.
>
> · Alternately, we could pay a service to do this all for us. The
> mainstream outfits are costly for this, but some cheaper “stringer” services
> may be cheaper. The PixelCorps (
pixelcorps.com) is an example
>
> · Does our host university, the College of Charleston, have a media
> or productions program that we could ask to help? What are the changes the
> theater department has folks that can give us advice or lend a hand?
>
> · Are their any local area photography clubs that may would be
> interested in helping
>
>
>
>
>
> I’m eager to help out on all of this, but I’m an amateur photographer and
> most of this is a bit outside my wheelhouse. I’m also a bit swamped with
> work, so it’s a bit challenging for me to take on pulling all this together.
> What do others think about my write-up; did I miss anything that could help?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wilbur
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 10:01 PM, Chad Hobbs <chaddhobbs(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Alright, here is the deal on the classrooms. They have presentation
>> kiosks but do not have web cams for recording. They haven't gotten the
>> latest technology upgrade like what Garrett mentioned. They all do have
>> Windows machines with dedicated LAN lines and we can use the USB ports on
>> them if we want to hook cameras up to them and use them as a point to stream
>> from. That can be set up the night before in the IT walkthrough.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 11:54 PM, Ilan Rabinovitch <ilan(a)fonz.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Wilbur,
>>>
>>> Lets connect on IRC at some point and I'd be happy to get a test
>>> environment setup.
>>>
>>> Ilan
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 2:20 PM, Wilbur K Smith
>>> <wilbur.k.smith(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Hi Folks,
>>> > I have not live-streamed video from it, but I have a Canon 7D SLR than
>>> > can
>>> > do 1080p and I can bring it along to help out. Most of the mid-level
>>> > DSLRs
>>> > on the market can output through a standard HDMI or Mini-HDMI port, so
>>> > it
>>> > may be easy to borrow a few from others. I've worked with VLC for
>>> > streaming,
>>> > but this was for multicast projects.I'll need to play with it and
come
>>> > up
>>> > with a good config; I'll take a look at this over the holiday. The
key
>>> > question will be what formats Ooyala servers in can can handle.
>>> >
>>> > If anyone has a link to Ooyala's technical info and support,
I'll put
>>> > some
>>> > time into this and see what I can come up with.
>>> >
>>> > Happy to help,
>>> > Wilbur
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Ruth Suehle <rsuehle(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Ooyala is going to help us with streaming Flock sessions. We just
>>> >> need
>>> >> equipment. "Just." I'm trying to stretch budgets from
everywhere just
>>> >> to get
>>> >> all of Flock happening, so there's not a lot leftover for
buying
>>> >> camera
>>> >> equipment! Possibly some, but I don't think I can swing enough
for
>>> >> nine
>>> >> rooms.
>>> >>
>>> >> Thus, two questions:
>>> >>
>>> >> - Can anyone suggest reasonably inexpensive cameras I should look
at
>>> >> purchasing? Whatever is the least expensive that isn't going to
be so
>>> >> low
>>> >> quality, it's useless.
>>> >>
>>> >> - Does anyone have a video camera suitable that you'd be willing
to
>>> >> lend
>>> >> to the cause? We'd have it set up in the rooms all day, but of
course
>>> >> you're
>>> >> welcome to take it back to your hotel for safekeeping at night.
>>> >>
>>> >> Here's the information from Ooyala about how we can do the
streaming.
>>> >> There are two options:
>>> >>
>>> >> 1) Hook up a camera to a computer running a software encoder via
USB
>>> >> or Firewire. Many of our customers use Flash Media Live Encoder,
>>> >> which is not open source. VLC might be an open source option here
as
>>> >> well, but I haven't personally used it in this setup.
>>> >>
>>> >> 2) Use a hardware encoder such as a Terradeck cube
>>> >> (
http://www.teradek.com/pages/cube). These can take input from SDI
or
>>> >> HDMI output on any camera and then re-encode them to push to a
>>> >> streaming server at whichever provider you select.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Does anyone know whether VLC or something else is an option for #1?
I
>>> >> think the Teradek is prohibitively expensive, especially if we also
>>> >> have to
>>> >> buy cameras.
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks!
>>> >> Ruth
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> flock-planning mailing list
>>> >> flock-planning(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>>> >>
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/flock-planning
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Wilbur K. Smith
>>> > wilbur.k.smith(a)gmail.com
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > flock-planning mailing list
>>> > flock-planning(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>>> >
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/flock-planning
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> flock-planning(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>>>
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/flock-planning
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Wilbur K. Smith
> wilbur.k.smith(a)gmail.com
--
Wilbur K. Smith
wilbur.k.smith(a)gmail.com
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