Flock 2014 bids

[Ruth Suehle]

The bid process for Flock 2014 is now documented, based on the FUDCon bid
process:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Flock_bid_process

Feel free to:

a) mention anything I forgot on that page
b) discuss date considerations
c) start your bid proposals!

Ruth

[Robyn Bergeron]

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ruth Suehle" 
> To: "Planning discussion for Flock (Fedora Contributor Conference)" 
> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 7:22:43 AM
> Subject: Flock 2014 bids
>
> The bid process for Flock 2014 is now documented, based on the FUDCon bid
> process:
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Flock_bid_process
>
> Feel free to:
>
> a) mention anything I forgot on that page
> b) discuss date considerations

Since one of the original ideas here was to have it as soon as humanly possible after a release - so as to have lots of f2f time to do futureplanning...

... F20 releases in December. Or (horrible worst case scenario) January.
... F21 is still more or less TBD. There has been discussion around extending the F21 schedule. (FWIW, I'd love ot see us get back to the may 1 / halloween schedule, but that will all wind up being a fesco decision once the details are sorted out.)

Thoughts on reasonable timeframes?

-r
> c) start your bid proposals!
>
> Ruth
>
> flock-planning mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/flock-planning

[Jaroslav Reznik]

----- Original Message -----
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ruth Suehle" 
> > To: "Planning discussion for Flock (Fedora Contributor Conference)"
> >
> > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 7:22:43 AM
> > Subject: Flock 2014 bids
> >
> > The bid process for Flock 2014 is now documented, based on the FUDCon bid
> > process:
> >
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Flock_bid_process
> >
> > Feel free to:
> >
> > a) mention anything I forgot on that page
> > b) discuss date considerations
>
> Since one of the original ideas here was to have it as soon as humanly
> possible after a release - so as to have lots of f2f time to do
> futureplanning...
>
> ... F20 releases in December. Or (horrible worst case scenario) January.
>
> ... F21 is still more or less TBD. There has been discussion around extending
> the F21 schedule. (FWIW, I'd love ot see us get back to the may 1 /
> halloween schedule, but that will all wind up being a fesco decision once
> the details are sorted out.)

And it would be really nice to get at least some people at least ones f2f
before the get the output from WGs. Maybe a mini-Flock only for people 
involved in this effort?

For F21, we are just talking about it but still it would make sense to 
have it earlier than later to get reasonable output for F21 (or any .next
releases).

Jaroslav
> Thoughts on reasonable timeframes?
>
> -r
> > c) start your bid proposals!
> >
> > Ruth
> >
> > flock-planning mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/flock-planning
>
> flock-planning mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/flock-planning

[Robyn Bergeron]

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jaroslav Reznik" 
> To: "Planning discussion for Flock (Fedora Contributor Conference)" 
> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 7:44:40 AM
> Subject: Re: Flock 2014 bids
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Ruth Suehle" 
> > > To: "Planning discussion for Flock (Fedora Contributor Conference)"
> > >
> > > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 7:22:43 AM
> > > Subject: Flock 2014 bids
> > >
> > > The bid process for Flock 2014 is now documented, based on the FUDCon bid
> > > process:
> > >
> > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Flock_bid_process
> > >
> > > Feel free to:
> > >
> > > a) mention anything I forgot on that page
> > > b) discuss date considerations
> >
> > Since one of the original ideas here was to have it as soon as humanly
> > possible after a release - so as to have lots of f2f time to do
> > futureplanning...
> >
> > ... F20 releases in December. Or (horrible worst case scenario) January.
> >
> > ... F21 is still more or less TBD. There has been discussion around
> > extending
> > the F21 schedule. (FWIW, I'd love ot see us get back to the may 1 /
> > halloween schedule, but that will all wind up being a fesco decision once
> > the details are sorted out.)
>
> And it would be really nice to get at least some people at least ones f2f
> before the get the output from WGs. Maybe a mini-Flock only for people
> involved in this effort?

That is what FADs are for :)
> For F21, we are just talking about it but still it would make sense to
> have it earlier than later to get reasonable output for F21 (or any .next
> releases).

Yeah, the thing is that the budget will still be in the next fiscal year (March 2014-Feb 2015), and plane tickets need to be bought ahead of time, etc.
> Jaroslav
> > Thoughts on reasonable timeframes?
> >
> > -r
> > > c) start your bid proposals!
> > >
> > > Ruth
> > >
> > > flock-planning mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/flock-planning
> >
> > flock-planning mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/flock-planning
>
> flock-planning mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/flock-planning

[Matthew Miller]

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 10:48:57AM -0400, Robyn Bergeron wrote:
> > For F21, we are just talking about it but still it would make sense to
> > have it earlier than later to get reasonable output for F21 (or any .next
> > releases).
>
> Yeah, the thing is that the budget will still be in the next fiscal year
> (March 2014-Feb 2015), and plane tickets need to be bought ahead of time,
> etc.

It would be very helpful to have Flock right before we start the actual
three-project branches. Since we can't, sadly, have as many Flocks as
releases, that suggests that maybe we should have F21 as a normal or even
short cycle release, followed by Flock in June. (Which should be okay for
finding space at universities.)

I don't know if Fedora Activity Days for the product working groups would be
useful or not; they'll also need to be good at remote collaboration for the
bulk of the work anyway, but a FAD might help to kick things off. What I
*would* like to see is a FAD for QA and rel-eng automation, because we'll
need that in order to actually pull off having three separate products. (We
need it now anyway, in fact, but, then, that times three.)

That way, we're laying the groundwork for the next phase even if we're not
immediately launching it. I'm kind of excited about launching *something*,
but having it actually get to orbit or escape velocity (pick your
metaphorical destination) is... the actual point, so if it takes a little
longer to get launched and that gives us better success, that's not bad.

And, we're not sitting completely still; promoting the cloud image as
first-class is a big change even if the product isn't more differentiated.
We also can work on Fedora EPIC and other "Ring 2" ideas in parallel.

[Haïkel Guémar]

Le 30/09/2013 20:54, Matthew Miller a écrit :
> It would be very helpful to have Flock right before we start the actual
> three-project branches. Since we can't, sadly, have as many Flocks as
> releases, that suggests that maybe we should have F21 as a normal or even
> short cycle release, followed by Flock in June. (Which should be okay for
> finding space at universities.)

Depending the country, there are teaching activity up to mid-july and
june is usually an exams month is some european countries.
http://eacea.ec.europa.eu/education/eurydice/documents/facts_and_figures/aca...

A safe bet would be in the second half of july.
> I don't know if Fedora Activity Days for the product working groups would be
> useful or not; they'll also need to be good at remote collaboration for the
> bulk of the work anyway, but a FAD might help to kick things off. What I
> *would* like to see is a FAD for QA and rel-eng automation, because we'll
> need that in order to actually pull off having three separate products. (We
> need it now anyway, in fact, but, then, that times three.)
>
> That way, we're laying the groundwork for the next phase even if we're not
> immediately launching it. I'm kind of excited about launching *something*,
> but having it actually get to orbit or escape velocity (pick your
> metaphorical destination) is... the actual point, so if it takes a little
> longer to get launched and that gives us better success, that's not bad.
>
> And, we're not sitting completely still; promoting the cloud image as
> first-class is a big change even if the product isn't more differentiated.
> We also can work on Fedora EPIC and other "Ring 2" ideas in parallel.

best regards,
H.

[María Leandro]

Same as LatinAmerica... We have FLISoL in April (usually last sunday) and
it definitely can't collide with SFD. Final exams are the same here, July.
I think August would be ok.

Probably a good idea would be to the teams proposing venues to check the
Fedora Events wiki and try to not collide it with any event, not just the 3
USA events that were mentioned at the Flock wiki.

2013/9/30 Haïkel Guémar
> Le 30/09/2013 20:54, Matthew Miller a écrit :
> > It would be very helpful to have Flock right before we start the actual
> > three-project branches. Since we can't, sadly, have as many Flocks as
> > releases, that suggests that maybe we should have F21 as a normal or even
> > short cycle release, followed by Flock in June. (Which should be okay for
> > finding space at universities.)
>
> Depending the country, there are teaching activity up to mid-july and
> june is usually an exams month is some european countries.
>
> http://eacea.ec.europa.eu/education/eurydice/documents/facts_and_figures/aca...
>
> A safe bet would be in the second half of july.
> > I don't know if Fedora Activity Days for the product working groups
>
> would be
> > useful or not; they'll also need to be good at remote collaboration for
>
> the
> > bulk of the work anyway, but a FAD might help to kick things off. What I
> > *would* like to see is a FAD for QA and rel-eng automation, because we'll
> > need that in order to actually pull off having three separate products.
>
> (We
> > need it now anyway, in fact, but, then, that times three.)
> >
> > That way, we're laying the groundwork for the next phase even if we're
>
> not
> > immediately launching it. I'm kind of excited about launching
>
> *something*,
> > but having it actually get to orbit or escape velocity (pick your
> > metaphorical destination) is... the actual point, so if it takes a little
> > longer to get launched and that gives us better success, that's not bad.
> >
> > And, we're not sitting completely still; promoting the cloud image as
> > first-class is a big change even if the product isn't more
>
> differentiated.
> > We also can work on Fedora EPIC and other "Ring 2" ideas in parallel.
>
> best regards,
> H.
> _______________________________________________
> flock-planning mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/flock-planning

[Jaroslav Reznik]

----- Original Message -----
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 10:48:57AM -0400, Robyn Bergeron wrote:
> > > For F21, we are just talking about it but still it would make sense to
> > > have it earlier than later to get reasonable output for F21 (or any .next
> > > releases).
> >
> > Yeah, the thing is that the budget will still be in the next fiscal year
> > (March 2014-Feb 2015), and plane tickets need to be bought ahead of time,
> > etc.
>
> It would be very helpful to have Flock right before we start the actual
> three-project branches. Since we can't, sadly...

We can! Not exactly Flock but I talked to Jiri Eischmann today and he's
still planning one Fedora dedicated day at DevConf. It's in the beginning
of February, I expect a lot of people will be available as always and I
hope there will be possibility to sponsor a few more in WGs to come too.

Jiri is going to create a wiki page, he have not publicly announced it
yet as he's not happy with current state of websites...

I'll be definitely more than happy to help organize Fedora.next event
as local guy!

And I have to say - I like the idea of having one day dedicated for
Fedora where most of the people are going to be in winter and then
summer Flock, to cover two (potential) releases per year. (Not to be
completely OT for Flock bids - we should count with this arrangement).

Jaroslav

[Josh Boyer]

On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 5:05 AM, Jaroslav Reznik  wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> > On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 10:48:57AM -0400, Robyn Bergeron wrote:
> > > > For F21, we are just talking about it but still it would make sense to
> > > > have it earlier than later to get reasonable output for F21 (or any .next
> > > > releases).
> > >
> > > Yeah, the thing is that the budget will still be in the next fiscal year
> > > (March 2014-Feb 2015), and plane tickets need to be bought ahead of time,
> > > etc.
> >
> > It would be very helpful to have Flock right before we start the actual
> > three-project branches. Since we can't, sadly...
>
> We can! Not exactly Flock but I talked to Jiri Eischmann today and he's
> still planning one Fedora dedicated day at DevConf. It's in the beginning
> of February, I expect a lot of people will be available as always and I
> hope there will be possibility to sponsor a few more in WGs to come too.
>
> Jiri is going to create a wiki page, he have not publicly announced it
> yet as he's not happy with current state of websites...
>
> I'll be definitely more than happy to help organize Fedora.next event
> as local guy!
>
> And I have to say - I like the idea of having one day dedicated for
> Fedora where most of the people are going to be in winter and then
> summer Flock, to cover two (potential) releases per year. (Not to be
> completely OT for Flock bids - we should count with this arrangement).

I don't think we should count on that arrangement at all.  DevConf is
great for people that can attend without too much travel and I highly
encourage those in that position to do so.  However, we're moving
Flock back and forth between NA and EU because shipping people all
over the place is expensive.

Unless you have a magic money machine that I'm not aware of, I don't
think we can get a significant portion of the Fedora community to be
able to cover a Fedora release at DevConf, and do so in only one day.
To be clear, it would be more like a FAD than a Flock.

josh

[Jaroslav Reznik]

----- Original Message -----
> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 5:05 AM, Jaroslav Reznik  wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 10:48:57AM -0400, Robyn Bergeron wrote:
> > > > > For F21, we are just talking about it but still it would make sense to
> > > > > have it earlier than later to get reasonable output for F21 (or any
> > > > > .next
> > > > > releases).
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, the thing is that the budget will still be in the next fiscal year
> > > > (March 2014-Feb 2015), and plane tickets need to be bought ahead of
> > > > time,
> > > > etc.
> > >
> > > It would be very helpful to have Flock right before we start the actual
> > > three-project branches. Since we can't, sadly...
> >
> > We can! Not exactly Flock but I talked to Jiri Eischmann today and he's
> > still planning one Fedora dedicated day at DevConf. It's in the beginning
> > of February, I expect a lot of people will be available as always and I
> > hope there will be possibility to sponsor a few more in WGs to come too.
> >
> > Jiri is going to create a wiki page, he have not publicly announced it
> > yet as he's not happy with current state of websites...
> >
> > I'll be definitely more than happy to help organize Fedora.next event
> > as local guy!
> >
> > And I have to say - I like the idea of having one day dedicated for
> > Fedora where most of the people are going to be in winter and then
> > summer Flock, to cover two (potential) releases per year. (Not to be
> > completely OT for Flock bids - we should count with this arrangement).
>
> I don't think we should count on that arrangement at all.  DevConf is
> great for people that can attend without too much travel and I highly
> encourage those in that position to do so.  However, we're moving
> Flock back and forth between NA and EU because shipping people all
> over the place is expensive.
>
> Unless you have a magic money machine that I'm not aware of, I don't
> think we can get a significant portion of the Fedora community to be
> able to cover a Fedora release at DevConf, and do so in only one day.
> To be clear, it would be more like a FAD than a Flock.

Well, it's probably somewhere in between of FAD and Flock - a lot of
Fedora contributors are around because of FOSDEM/DevConf, probably with
the same amount of FESCo members.

It's just an idea - maybe we don't want this arrangement at all. For
not it's more an option how to get people involved in WGs to be on
the same place as soon as possible after the deadline with less 
money.

OT now, will move it to different thread.

Jaroslav
> josh
> _______________________________________________
> flock-planning mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/flock-planning

[Haïkel]

Hi,

just to mention that we started a Strasbourg proposal which will be
co-located with GUADEC with full support from French Team.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Flock2014-strasbourg-proposal

I am discussing with Alexandre Franke, GUADEC organizer lead on how we
could structure our proposal, so both event could benefit from co-location.
Still many issues to figure out but i invite anyone who wants to help us to
contact me.
Since Strasbourg is an european capitale (it hosts the EU parliament) and
near the border with Germany (with many german speakers), my personal wish
is that proposal will be a common effort from both French/German teams.

I believe it's an unique occasion to bring onboard our Fedora GNOME
contributors, especially at these times when we're discussing Fedora's
future (the common core/products plan) and we *need* their input.

best regards,
H.

[Stephen Gallagher]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 09/30/2013 02:54 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 10:48:57AM -0400, Robyn Bergeron wrote:
> > > For F21, we are just talking about it but still it would make
> > > sense to have it earlier than later to get reasonable output
> > > for F21 (or any .next releases).
> >
> > Yeah, the thing is that the budget will still be in the next
> > fiscal year (March 2014-Feb 2015), and plane tickets need to be
> > bought ahead of time, etc.
>
> It would be very helpful to have Flock right before we start the
> actual three-project branches. Since we can't, sadly, have as many
> Flocks as releases, that suggests that maybe we should have F21 as
> a normal or even short cycle release, followed by Flock in June.
> (Which should be okay for finding space at universities.)

Well, we don't necessarily have to run a Fedora-specific event either.
We do have an opportunity in early February to have a track/hackfest
at one or both of FOSDEM (Feb 2-3) and DevConf.cz (Feb 7-9).

FOSDEM in particular is running "Distribition" developer rooms this
year, so I've submitted a request to reserve one of these for Fedora
contributors. This would be an opportunity to get some of our European
contributors into a room to hack on these ideas. Similarly, the CFP
for DevConf.cz is open and it would probably be wise to schedule a
hackfest (or block of hackfests) on the subject.
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