Hi All,
Rafal, Filip and I have been working hard on the evening activities.
The current proposal is the following:
2 August - Game Night at the Hotel and a City Tour 3 August - 3 hour dinner cruise (200 ppl) 4 August - Buffet Dinner and Beer tasting at Browar Lubicz
We would like to hear you feedback on these? Do we need all three evenings to have an activity? Essentially we have a choice. If we cancel either the cruise or the brewery we can shift 6-8 thousand dollars ($6000 - $8000) into the travel subsidy budget. Would you rather have one activity and a greater subsidy budget or 2 activities?
The game night and city tour as not a significant expense.
Please share your opinions quickly as we need to commit to the cruise ASAP and brewery RSN (real soon now) or we risk losing the options.
Thank you.
regards,
bex
On Jun 17, 2016 10:27 AM, "Brian (bex) Exelbierd" bex@pobox.com wrote:
Hi All,
Rafal, Filip and I have been working hard on the evening activities.
The current proposal is the following:
2 August - Game Night at the Hotel and a City Tour 3 August - 3 hour dinner cruise (200 ppl) 4 August - Buffet Dinner and Beer tasting at Browar Lubicz
We would like to hear you feedback on these? Do we need all three
evenings to have an activity? Essentially we have a choice. If we cancel either the cruise or the brewery we can shift 6-8 thousand dollars ($6000 - $8000) into the travel subsidy budget. Would you rather have one activity and a greater subsidy budget or 2 activities?
I'm enthusiastically +1 on all the activities listed above. Keeping the cruise especially, since this is somewhat of a European tradition now after Prague. The Game Night is really a "non-event" that would allow for team dinners or a night off for folks who want to keep it low-key.
Nice work all, I think the events budget is reasonable, and the events schedule exciting. Way to go!
Looking Forward, --RemyD.
The game night and city tour as not a significant expense.
Please share your opinions quickly as we need to commit to the cruise
ASAP and brewery RSN (real soon now) or we risk losing the options.
Thank you.
regards,
bex _______________________________________________ flock-planning mailing list flock-planning@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/flock-planning@lists.fedoraproje...
Thank you everybody for commenting on this. I am focused on the boat party since all other events will be already handled by Brian and Filip and their costs are probably already known. At the moment I assume that the boat party will last 3 hours from 7:30pm to 10:30pm and we will rent 2 medium size city buses to arrive from the hotel and back. For now my estimation of the boat party cost is:
* Rent the boat, 3 hours: 7,500 PLN (≈$1,900) * Food for 200 people: not yet confirmed but I guess something between 7,000 and 14,000 PLN (≈$1,800-3,500) * Drinks: again not confirmed but I guess between 2,000 and 3,600 PLN (≈$510-920) * Transportation (2 buses, 2 cruises, including night hours): 1,570 PLN (≈$400) (it may be cheaper if we promise we will move from the ship to the bus and from the bus to the hotel quickly and we will save the driver's working time)
Total: 18,070-26,670 (≈$4575-6750).
I think it would be helpful if you set some budget limit for this particular event and decide if this is OK or too much, and what can we do to make it cheaper: less hours, less food choices, less beer, no beer sponsored, less comfortable transportation option (only one bus and let it cruse twice)?
17.06.2016 17:00 Remy DeCausemaker decause@gmail.com wrote:
[...] I'm enthusiastically +1 on all the activities listed above. Keeping the cruise especially, since this is somewhat of a European tradition now after Prague.
That's my point exactly!
The Game Night is really a "non-event" that would allow for team dinners or a night off for folks who want to keep it low-key.
AFAIUC the game night and the walking tour are parallel events: people can choose either of them but not both. Hence the transportation would be cheaper and easier to organize, plus an option of a dinner after the walking tour.
Thank you again and regards,
Rafal
Hi,
I have more details about the food and drinks so here they are.
The staff suggests a grill menu, this includes both vegetarian and non vegetarian food.
Grill menu: 45, 55, or 80 PLN/person (we have to choose) Beer: 8 PLN/0.5 l or 700 PLN/50 l keg Non-alcoholic drinks (coffee, tea, juice, water), unlimited: 15 PLN/person
This makes total (200 people): 10,600-22,200 PLN depending on what food/drink we choose.
Plus the ship: 7,500 PLN if we take 3 hours, total: 18,100-29,700 PLN ($4580-7520).
All prices exclude VAT.
18.06.2016 01:24 Rafal Luzynski digitalfreak@lingonborough.com wrote:
Thank you everybody for commenting on this. I am focused on the boat party since all other events will be already handled by Brian and Filip and their costs are probably already known. At the moment I assume that the boat party will last 3 hours from 7:30pm to 10:30pm and we will rent 2 medium size city buses to arrive from the hotel and back. For now my estimation of the boat party cost is:
- Rent the boat, 3 hours: 7,500 PLN (≈$1,900)
- Food for 200 people: not yet confirmed but I guess something
between 7,000 and 14,000 PLN (≈$1,800-3,500)
Update: food 9,000-16,000 PLN (≈$2,280-4,050)
- Drinks: again not confirmed but I guess between 2,000 and 3,600 PLN
(≈$510-920)
Update: drinks 1,600-6,200 PLN (≈$405-1,570)
- Transportation (2 buses, 2 cruises, including night hours): 1,570 PLN
(≈$400) (it may be cheaper if we promise we will move from the ship to the bus and from the bus to the hotel quickly and we will save the driver's working time)
Total: 18,070-26,670 (≈$4575-6750).
Updated total: 19,670-31,270 PLN (≈$4980-7920).
I think we'll aim at the lower price but this does not mean we just choose the cheapest option.
As far as I understand you lean to agree for this event as well as all other evening events. Do you need more details about this event?
Regards,
Rafal
On 06/17/2016 10:28 AM, Brian (bex) Exelbierd wrote:
Hi All,
Rafal, Filip and I have been working hard on the evening activities.
The current proposal is the following:
2 August - Game Night at the Hotel and a City Tour 3 August - 3 hour dinner cruise (200 ppl) 4 August - Buffet Dinner and Beer tasting at Browar Lubicz
We would like to hear you feedback on these? Do we need all three evenings to have an activity? Essentially we have a choice. If we cancel either the cruise or the brewery we can shift 6-8 thousand dollars ($6000 - $8000) into the travel subsidy budget. Would you rather have one activity and a greater subsidy budget or 2 activities?
Let's assume for the moment that we made the upper end of that ($8000) into a travel subsidy. Do we have numbers on the average cost of a subsidy? Would this enable us to subsidize five additional travelers? Ten? Twenty? I think that makes a difference. If it enables us to get a lot more people to the conference who would like to attend, then there's real value in that. However, if cost of travel and lodging is so high that it's a minimal difference (say, five or fewer additional subsidies), then it's probably worth it to keep the activities instead.
On Jun 17, 2016 11:16 AM, "Stephen Gallagher" sgallagh@redhat.com wrote:
On 06/17/2016 10:28 AM, Brian (bex) Exelbierd wrote:
Hi All,
Rafal, Filip and I have been working hard on the evening activities.
The current proposal is the following:
2 August - Game Night at the Hotel and a City Tour 3 August - 3 hour
dinner
cruise (200 ppl) 4 August - Buffet Dinner and Beer tasting at Browar
Lubicz
We would like to hear you feedback on these? Do we need all three
evenings
to have an activity? Essentially we have a choice. If we cancel
either the
cruise or the brewery we can shift 6-8 thousand dollars ($6000 - $8000)
into
the travel subsidy budget. Would you rather have one activity and a
greater
subsidy budget or 2 activities?
Let's assume for the moment that we made the upper end of that ($8000)
into a
travel subsidy. Do we have numbers on the average cost of a subsidy?
Would this
enable us to subsidize five additional travelers? Ten? Twenty? I think
that
makes a difference. If it enables us to get a lot more people to the
conference
who would like to attend, then there's real value in that. However, if
cost of
travel and lodging is so high that it's a minimal difference (say, five
or fewer
additional subsidies), then it's probably worth it to keep the activities
instead.
As one of the folks running the calculus on travel, I'd say "it depends." On the high-end, APAC travelers can cost 3k+ in some cases. On the low end, the (hopefully happening) bus from Brno or a train ride + hotel could be <1k per traveller.
Since we are already *significantly* investing in travel, at some point we need to ensure the quality of the experience over extra quantity of attendees. I think cancelling *all* the evening events would be hugely detrimental to morale, and should not be considered an option.
One of the big benefits of choosing Krakow was that spending on evening events would be cheaper than prohibitive venue costs from other bids like France. If we forgo this then we might as well just book the nearest cheapest hotel to an airport hub, and call it done next time...
There are other regional events that folks who cannot make it to Flock this year can attend, and likely other Flocks in the future too.
Please don't cancel the boat, --RemyD.
On 06/17/2016 12:09 PM, Remy DeCausemaker wrote:
On Jun 17, 2016 11:16 AM, "Stephen Gallagher" <sgallagh@redhat.com mailto:sgallagh@redhat.com> wrote:
On 06/17/2016 10:28 AM, Brian (bex) Exelbierd wrote:
Hi All,
Rafal, Filip and I have been working hard on the evening activities.
The current proposal is the following:
2 August - Game Night at the Hotel and a City Tour 3 August - 3 hour dinner cruise (200 ppl) 4 August - Buffet Dinner and Beer tasting at Browar Lubicz
We would like to hear you feedback on these? Do we need all three evenings to have an activity? Essentially we have a choice. If we cancel either the cruise or the brewery we can shift 6-8 thousand dollars ($6000 - $8000) into the travel subsidy budget. Would you rather have one activity and a greater subsidy budget or 2 activities?
Let's assume for the moment that we made the upper end of that ($8000) into a travel subsidy. Do we have numbers on the average cost of a subsidy? Would this enable us to subsidize five additional travelers? Ten? Twenty? I think that makes a difference. If it enables us to get a lot more people to the conference who would like to attend, then there's real value in that. However, if cost of travel and lodging is so high that it's a minimal difference (say, five or fewer additional subsidies), then it's probably worth it to keep the activities instead.
As one of the folks running the calculus on travel, I'd say "it depends." On the high-end, APAC travelers can cost 3k+ in some cases. On the low end, the (hopefully happening) bus from Brno or a train ride + hotel could be <1k per traveller.
OK, but we are still talking about a realistic upper limit of eight additional attendees. I'd be pretty comfortable (personally) saying that's an insufficient advantage over the evening entertainment.
I just figured it made sense to know what the actual advantages would be for deciding one way or another. With the numbers as they are, I think making the experience more enjoyable for the people who are coming outweighs the alternatives.
Since we are already *significantly* investing in travel, at some point we need to ensure the quality of the experience over extra quantity of attendees. I think cancelling *all* the evening events would be hugely detrimental to morale, and should not be considered an option.
I didn't say "all" events. The number above was for just one or the other.
One of the big benefits of choosing Krakow was that spending on evening events would be cheaper than prohibitive venue costs from other bids like France. If we forgo this then we might as well just book the nearest cheapest hotel to an airport hub, and call it done next time...
There are other regional events that folks who cannot make it to Flock this year can attend, and likely other Flocks in the future too.
Please don't cancel the boat, --RemyD.
flock-planning mailing list flock-planning@lists.fedoraproject.org https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/flock-planning@lists.fedoraproje...
Hey all,
Let's go ahead and proceed with both events since it seems like everyone has a consensus that the benefits are there. If everyone is comfortable with the budget, then I say do it.
Thanks.
On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 12:46 PM, Stephen Gallagher sgallagh@redhat.com wrote:
On 06/17/2016 12:09 PM, Remy DeCausemaker wrote:
On Jun 17, 2016 11:16 AM, "Stephen Gallagher" <sgallagh@redhat.com mailto:sgallagh@redhat.com> wrote:
On 06/17/2016 10:28 AM, Brian (bex) Exelbierd wrote:
Hi All,
Rafal, Filip and I have been working hard on the evening activities.
The current proposal is the following:
2 August - Game Night at the Hotel and a City Tour 3 August - 3 hour
dinner
cruise (200 ppl) 4 August - Buffet Dinner and Beer tasting at Browar
Lubicz
We would like to hear you feedback on these? Do we need all three
evenings
to have an activity? Essentially we have a choice. If we cancel
either the
cruise or the brewery we can shift 6-8 thousand dollars ($6000 -
$8000) into
the travel subsidy budget. Would you rather have one activity and a
greater
subsidy budget or 2 activities?
Let's assume for the moment that we made the upper end of that ($8000)
into a
travel subsidy. Do we have numbers on the average cost of a subsidy?
Would this
enable us to subsidize five additional travelers? Ten? Twenty? I think
that
makes a difference. If it enables us to get a lot more people to the
conference
who would like to attend, then there's real value in that. However, if
cost of
travel and lodging is so high that it's a minimal difference (say, five
or fewer
additional subsidies), then it's probably worth it to keep the
activities instead.
As one of the folks running the calculus on travel, I'd say "it
depends." On the
high-end, APAC travelers can cost 3k+ in some cases. On the low end, the (hopefully happening) bus from Brno or a train ride + hotel could be <1k
per
traveller.
OK, but we are still talking about a realistic upper limit of eight additional attendees. I'd be pretty comfortable (personally) saying that's an insufficient advantage over the evening entertainment.
I just figured it made sense to know what the actual advantages would be for deciding one way or another. With the numbers as they are, I think making the experience more enjoyable for the people who are coming outweighs the alternatives.
Since we are already *significantly* investing in travel, at some point
we need
to ensure the quality of the experience over extra quantity of
attendees. I
think cancelling *all* the evening events would be hugely detrimental to
morale,
and should not be considered an option.
I didn't say "all" events. The number above was for just one or the other.
One of the big benefits of choosing Krakow was that spending on evening
events
would be cheaper than prohibitive venue costs from other bids like
France. If we
forgo this then we might as well just book the nearest cheapest hotel to
an
airport hub, and call it done next time...
There are other regional events that folks who cannot make it to Flock
this year
can attend, and likely other Flocks in the future too.
Please don't cancel the boat, --RemyD.
flock-planning mailing list flock-planning@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/flock-planning@lists.fedoraproje...
flock-planning mailing list flock-planning@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/flock-planning@lists.fedoraproje...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 06/17/2016 11:09 PM, Remy DeCausemaker wrote:
As one of the folks running the calculus on travel, I'd say "it depends." On the high-end, APAC travelers can cost 3k+ in some cases. On the low end, the (hopefully happening) bus from Brno or a train ride + hotel could be <1k per traveller.
It is not totally true, flight cost from some cites in APAC to Warsaw is less than 1k (more flight connections to Warsaw than to Krakow). You can also try to ask them to cover hotel cost by their own. I believe you can find some active people want to go that way.
- -- Rgds, Tuan
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On 06/17/2016 10:16 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
On 06/17/2016 10:28 AM, Brian (bex) Exelbierd wrote:
Hi All,
Rafal, Filip and I have been working hard on the evening activities.
The current proposal is the following:
2 August - Game Night at the Hotel and a City Tour 3 August - 3 hour dinner cruise (200 ppl) 4 August - Buffet Dinner and Beer tasting at Browar Lubicz
We would like to hear you feedback on these? Do we need all three evenings to have an activity? Essentially we have a choice. If we cancel either the cruise or the brewery we can shift 6-8 thousand dollars ($6000 - $8000) into the travel subsidy budget. Would you rather have one activity and a greater subsidy budget or 2 activities?
Let's assume for the moment that we made the upper end of that ($8000) into a travel subsidy. Do we have numbers on the average cost of a subsidy? Would this enable us to subsidize five additional travelers? Ten? Twenty? I think that makes a difference. If it enables us to get a lot more people to the conference who would like to attend, then there's real value in that. However, if cost of travel and lodging is so high that it's a minimal difference (say, five or fewer additional subsidies), then it's probably worth it to keep the activities instead.
Attending Flock is always a really nice experience so we should try our best to give more chances to more people. With approx. 1k per person, we can give chances to 6-8 additional active contributors allover the world.
- -- Rgds, Tuan
On Jun 18, 2016 23:49, "Truong Anh Tuan" tuanta@iwayvietnam.com wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 06/17/2016 10:16 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
On 06/17/2016 10:28 AM, Brian (bex) Exelbierd wrote:
Hi All,
Rafal, Filip and I have been working hard on the evening activities.
The current proposal is the following:
2 August - Game Night at the Hotel and a City Tour 3 August - 3 hour dinner cruise (200 ppl) 4 August - Buffet Dinner and Beer tasting at Browar Lubicz
We would like to hear you feedback on these? Do we need all three evenings to have an activity? Essentially we have a choice. If we cancel either the cruise or the brewery we can shift 6-8 thousand dollars ($6000 - $8000) into the travel subsidy budget. Would you rather have one activity and a greater subsidy budget or 2 activities?
Let's assume for the moment that we made the upper end of that ($8000) into a travel subsidy. Do we have numbers on the average cost of a subsidy? Would this enable us to subsidize five additional travelers? Ten? Twenty? I think that makes a difference. If it enables us to get a lot more people to the conference who would like to attend, then there's real value in that. However, if cost of travel and lodging is so high that it's a minimal difference (say, five or fewer additional subsidies), then it's probably worth it to keep the activities instead.
Attending Flock is always a really nice experience so we should try our best to give more chances to more people.
We are allocating around *half* of the budget to getting people to the conference as it is, which I'd say is more than ample.
With approx. 1k per person, we can give chances to 6-8 additional active contributors allover the world.
Though this may be true, this is why we hold and sponsor major regional events around the world. To put it in perspective, that is nearly *half* the budget of an entire FUDCon APAC, up to 80% of a FUDCon LATAM, or enough budget potentially for two reasonably sized FADs. Or we can get half a dozen people travel to Flock.
Flock is meant to be the EMEA/NA Fedora regional event, and there are FUDCon events in APAC and LATAM for those regions. We alternate the location of Flock to help *reduce* the highest costs, travel.
We go through this conversation every year. Flying the entire community into one location is not the most cost effective regional strategy. We think strategically and carefully about the guidelines used to allocate the limited amount of travel funding available. We have run some rough numbers on merging the FUDCon budgets with the Flock budget, and have concluded that it wouldn't be as cost-effective as running multiple events regionally.
If folks want to create a bid or proposal for one gigantic global conference in 2017, then by all means, post it to the wiki, but know that that strategy would increase the logistical concerns significantly, and we depend on local community leads to help shoulder that extra organizing and logistical burden.
If we're lucky, our speakers and workshop leads who need funding will get covered, without which there wouldn't be enough content to build a conference around. Funding for non-speaking attendees is always scarce, and the best way to scale that would be to scale our number of sponsors, and we're getting towards the end of the window of time for that this year.
It breaks my heart that we cannot bring every single amazing contributor to Flock, and the planning team is doing the best we can to stretch the budget as far as we can to include as many people as possible, I swear. Thank you to the local leads and volunteers helping us figure this out.
Looking Forward, --RemyD.
Rgds, Tuan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2
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https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/flock-planning@lists.fedoraproje...
Hi,
2016-06-20 9:17 GMT+07:00 Remy DeCausemaker decause@redhat.com:
On Jun 18, 2016 23:49, "Truong Anh Tuan" tuanta@iwayvietnam.com wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 06/17/2016 10:16 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
On 06/17/2016 10:28 AM, Brian (bex) Exelbierd wrote:
Hi All,
Rafal, Filip and I have been working hard on the evening activities.
The current proposal is the following:
2 August - Game Night at the Hotel and a City Tour 3 August - 3 hour dinner cruise (200 ppl) 4 August - Buffet Dinner and Beer tasting at Browar Lubicz
We would like to hear you feedback on these? Do we need all three evenings to have an activity? Essentially we have a choice. If we cancel either the cruise or the brewery we can shift 6-8 thousand dollars ($6000 - $8000) into the travel subsidy budget. Would you rather have one activity and a greater subsidy budget or 2 activities?
Let's assume for the moment that we made the upper end of that ($8000) into a travel subsidy. Do we have numbers on the average cost of a subsidy? Would this enable us to subsidize five additional travelers? Ten? Twenty? I think that makes a difference. If it enables us to get a lot more people to the conference who would like to attend, then there's real value in that. However, if cost of travel and lodging is so high that it's a minimal difference (say, five or fewer additional subsidies), then it's probably worth it to keep the activities instead.
Attending Flock is always a really nice experience so we should try our best to give more chances to more people.
We are allocating around *half* of the budget to getting people to the conference as it is, which I'd say is more than ample.
With approx. 1k per person, we can give chances to 6-8 additional active contributors allover the world.
Though this may be true, this is why we hold and sponsor major regional events around the world. To put it in perspective, that is nearly *half* the budget of an entire FUDCon APAC, up to 80% of a FUDCon LATAM, or enough budget potentially for two reasonably sized FADs. Or we can get half a dozen people travel to Flock.
Remy, may I remind you at this point that we reserved 4k in the regional budget. We have to find a way how to deal with it, so far APAC community has not talked about how to distribute it. The best I think at this point is that we pay the hotel out of that for the APAC speakers. What you think?
Flock is meant to be the EMEA/NA Fedora regional event, and there are FUDCon events in APAC and LATAM for those regions. We alternate the location of Flock to help *reduce* the highest costs, travel.
We go through this conversation every year. Flying the entire community into one location is not the most cost effective regional strategy. We think strategically and carefully about the guidelines used to allocate the limited amount of travel funding available. We have run some rough numbers on merging the FUDCon budgets with the Flock budget, and have concluded that it wouldn't be as cost-effective as running multiple events regionally.
If folks want to create a bid or proposal for one gigantic global conference in 2017, then by all means, post it to the wiki, but know that that strategy would increase the logistical concerns significantly, and we depend on local community leads to help shoulder that extra organizing and logistical burden.
If we're lucky, our speakers and workshop leads who need funding will get covered, without which there wouldn't be enough content to build a conference around. Funding for non-speaking attendees is always scarce, and the best way to scale that would be to scale our number of sponsors, and we're getting towards the end of the window of time for that this year.
It breaks my heart that we cannot bring every single amazing contributor to Flock, and the planning team is doing the best we can to stretch the budget as far as we can to include as many people as possible, I swear. Thank you to the local leads and volunteers helping us figure this out.
Looking Forward, --RemyD.
Rgds, Tuan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2
iEYEARECAAYFAldmFkMACgkQG2XGBe+NUL8k3QCdEMABrinZUg7ULjD8mNfqmUJ0 kWAAoLkGwKM56MMavkzd90sQUGBvzPXP =YKDW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ flock-planning mailing list flock-planning@lists.fedoraproject.org
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 06/20/2016 10:28 AM, S.Kemter wrote:
Remy, may I remind you at this point that we reserved 4k in the regional budget. We have to find a way how to deal with it, so far APAC community has not talked about how to distribute it. The best I think at this point is that we pay the hotel out of that for the APAC speakers. What you think?
We placed 4k for Flock in APAC annual budget plan [1]. However, the final approved budget for APAC is $11,500 only [2]. We are spending around $2,000-$2,500 for swag and media so the left budget (approved) for events support is around $9,000-$9,500 = 1/3 estimated budget ($28,525).
Therefore, allocated budget for each event in our scheduled event list should be decreased to 1/3 => budget for Flock (in APAC budget) should be about $1,333.
It is just a reminder for us to spend it wisely.
- -- Rgds, Tuan
[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_Singapore_2015/Events#FY17 [2] https://budget.fedoraproject.org/
flock-planning@lists.fedoraproject.org
-
Brian Exelbierd -
Jennifer Madriaga -
Rafal Luzynski -
Remy DeCausemaker -
Remy DeCausemaker -
S.Kemter -
Stephen Gallagher -
Truong Anh Tuan