[Bug 1375061] New: RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

Bug ID: 1375061
           Summary: RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again
           Product: Fedora
           Version: rawhide
         Component: liberation-fonts
          Assignee: [e-mail]
          Reporter: [e-mail]
        QA Contact: [e-mail]
                CC: [e-mail],
                    [e-mail],
                    [e-mail], [e-mail]

Description of problem:
The freetype maintainer in
https://www.freetype.org/freetype2/docs/subpixel-hinting.html recommends "using
the Liberation family of fonts (version 2 and up, important!)" and criticises
Fedora because it still ships version 1.x. I think it's time to try switching
to v2 again. We tried that a few years ago
(https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Liberation_Fonts_2 ) and stopped it
then due to problems (see Bug 856239); but from above recommendation it sounds
like the problems we faced might be gone fixed in between.

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

Nikolaus Waxweiler  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |[e-mail]

--- Comment #1 from Nikolaus Waxweiler  ---
From skimming the mentioned bug report, I think the "problems" didn't go
anywhere. v1 ships with a different hinting strategy than v2. v1 goes for
full-pixel snapping of all stems at all sizes like it's Windows 95. v2 goes for
a lighter (subpixel) stem snapping all around, giving a much softer ClearType-y
look that is still pretty sharp. Using FreeType 2.7 will display both softer
than with previous versions. It's guaranteed that people will file bug reports
like Bug 856239 again. It's a matter of expectations and getting used to the
look of the newer and technically better version.

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

--- Comment #2 from Nikolaus Waxweiler  ---
(It's possible to combine both hinting approaches in one font and have them
used depending on FT's TrueType interpreter version, but that would require
someone to do the combining work and add old strategy hints to all the newer
glyphs of v2. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.)

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

Pravin Satpute  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|NEW                         |ASSIGNED

--- Comment #3 from Pravin Satpute  ---
As you know Technically Liberation 1.x and 2.x are different.

For now, i am making Copr repository available for Liberation 2.x, lets again
test and have feedback.

Based on user feedback, we can decide what to do.

For F26: We can plan 2 option:
1- Ship Liberation 2.x default and provide Copr repo for Liberation 1.x
2. Ship Liberation 1.x default and provide Copr repo for Liberation 2.x

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

--- Comment #4 from Thorsten Leemhuis  ---
(In reply to Pravin Satpute from comment #3)
> As you know Technically Liberation 1.x and 2.x are different.

Then it imho would be the best to have both in the proper repos, then those
users that don't like the new font design can easily stick with 1.x without
having to deal with coprs.

But I assume that's not easily possible? I wonder if using alternatives would
be worth the hassle.

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

Viktor Pankraz  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |[e-mail]

--- Comment #5 from Viktor Pankraz  ---
I would also prefer to have Liberation 2.x as default. Given that Liberation
1.x is buggy in Fedora since 23
(https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1336042)

Is the copr repository up already? I would be happy to test.

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

Pravin Satpute  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|ASSIGNED                    |MODIFIED

--- Comment #6 from Pravin Satpute  ---
Here is the Copr repo
https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/pravins/liberation2/

Let me know if you find any issues while upgrading.

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

--- Comment #7 from Viktor Pankraz  ---
Same issues as with Liberation 1.x. See bug 1336042 :(

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

Michael Catanzaro  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |[e-mail]

--- Comment #8 from Michael Catanzaro  ---
Hi, are there plans to move the liberation2 package into Fedora proper? We'd
like to update the default font in Workstation.

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

--- Comment #9 from Pravin Satpute  ---
Excellent, i am happy to know this.

Present plan is at https://pagure.io/i18n/issue/77 but it will take some time.

In brief, have both packaged with different name, so it will be on user side to
decide which to use.

Michael What timeline are you looking for?

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

--- Comment #10 from Michael Catanzaro  ---
Well it's not urgent, so I don't have a timeline for you. But it'd be nice to
ship with the latest Liberation fonts sooner rather than later.

Providing both sets of fonts seems fine. I think we will install only the newer
fonts by default, though. So whenever you have the new package ready, let us
know and we'll update comps.

P.S. I misspoke is comment #8. Deja Vu fonts are the default fonts in
Workstation and we're not planning to change that. I meant to say that we
currently have the old Liberation fonts installed by default, and we'd like to
ship the new ones instead, following the recommendation of the FreeType
maintainer in the last paragraph of
https://www.freetype.org/freetype2/docs/subpixel-hinting.html.

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

Jens Petersen  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
           Priority|unspecified                 |medium
                 CC|                            |[e-mail]
           Assignee|[e-mail]         |[e-mail]

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

--- Comment #11 from Akira TAGOH  ---
Created attachment 1404651
  --> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=1404651&action=edit
Screenshot for Liberation1 with no hinting

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

--- Comment #12 from Akira TAGOH  ---
Created attachment 1404652
  --> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=1404652&action=edit
Screenshot for Liberation1 with hinting, v35 engine.

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

--- Comment #13 from Akira TAGOH  ---
Created attachment 1404653
  --> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=1404653&action=edit
Screenshot for Liberation1 with hinting, v40 engine

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

--- Comment #14 from Akira TAGOH  ---
Created attachment 1404654
  --> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=1404654&action=edit
Screenshot for Liberation1 with auto hinting

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

--- Comment #15 from Akira TAGOH  ---
Created attachment 1404655
  --> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=1404655&action=edit
Screenshot for Liberation2 with no hinting

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

--- Comment #16 from Akira TAGOH  ---
Created attachment 1404656
  --> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=1404656&action=edit
Screenshot for Liberation2 with hinting, v35 engine

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

--- Comment #17 from Akira TAGOH  ---
Created attachment 1404657
  --> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=1404657&action=edit
Screenshot for Liberation2 with hinting, v40 engine

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

--- Comment #18 from Akira TAGOH  ---
Created attachment 1404658
  --> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=1404658&action=edit
Screenshot for Liberation2 with auto hinting

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

Jens Petersen  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|MODIFIED                    |POST

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

--- Comment #19 from Jens Petersen  ---
I understand that v40 is the default FreeType engine now.

Liberation 2.00 looks better overall to me: eg compare the height
of "Th", "d", and numbers for sizes 13, 15, 16.
Liberation 1 sometimes looks a little heavier (due to hinting I guess).

I think we should build liberation-fonts 2.00.1 first for F29 Rawhide,
and then consider updating F28.

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

Parag Nemade  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|POST                        |MODIFIED
   Fixed In Version|                            |liberation-fonts-2.00.1-1.f
                   |                            |c29

--- Comment #20 from Parag Nemade  ---
Built the Liberation 2.00.1 upstream release in Fedora 29/rawhide. Please test
if you are using rawhide and provide any feedback here or open a new bugzilla
if needed.

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

--- Comment #21 from Nikolaus Waxweiler  ---
Did we get https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1336042 under control?

Actually, I'd rather see the Liberation fonts leave Fontconfig territory and be
converted to UFO sources. Then we'd have up-to-date tooling to build the fonts.

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

--- Comment #22 from Nikolaus Waxweiler  ---
(Err Fontforge territory)

[Bug 1375061] RFE: try switching to Liberation Fonts 2 again

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1375061

Jens Petersen  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
           Assignee|[e-mail]          |[e-mail]