[Bug 467745] New: Wrong rendering of cyrillic letter tse ( ц ) at 8pt and 10pt

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Summary: Wrong rendering of cyrillic letter tse (ц) at 8pt and 10pt

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=467745

Summary: Wrong rendering of cyrillic letter tse (ц) at 8pt and
                    10pt
           Product: Fedora
           Version: 9
          Platform: All
        OS/Version: Linux
            Status: NEW
          Severity: medium
          Priority: medium
         Component: dejavu-fonts
        AssignedTo: [e-mail]
        ReportedBy: [e-mail]
         QAContact: [e-mail]
                CC: [e-mail],
                    [e-mail]
    Classification: Fedora

Description of problem:
Cyrillic letter small tse (ц, U+0446) is wrongly rendered at 8pt and 10pt - it
misses a "tail" at bottom right.

Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable):
dejavu-fonts-2.24-3.fc9.noarch
freetype-2.3.5-6.fc9.x86_64

How reproducible:
Always.

Steps to Reproduce:
1. Open DejaVu Sans in charmap.
2. Select 8pt or 10pt size.
3. Look at ц (U+0446).

Actual results:
No tail.

Expected results:
With tail.

Additional info:
This is font and size of default installation and is quite annoying as is in
such way letter is hard to read.

[Bug 467745] Wrong rendering of cyrillic letter tse ( ц ) at 8pt and 10pt

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

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comments should be made in the comments box of this bug.

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Ben Laenen  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
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                 CC|                            |[e-mail]

--- Comment #1 from Ben Laenen   2008-10-21 15:03:23 EDT ---
The glyph has hinting instructions in DejaVu to make sure the tail always
appears. So you're probably using the Freetype autohinter, and hitting a bug in
that (fonts don't have control over the autohinter).

[Bug 467745] Wrong rendering of cyrillic letter tse ( ц ) at 8pt and 10pt

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

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comments should be made in the comments box of this bug.

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=467745

--- Comment #2 from Alexey Torkhov   2008-10-21 15:10:45 EDT ---
Erm, how to find out, am I using autohinter or not?

I'm not using freetype-freeworld from linva, only stock one from Fedora.

[Bug 467745] Wrong rendering of cyrillic letter tse ( ц ) at 8pt and 10pt

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

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comments should be made in the comments box of this bug.

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--- Comment #3 from Ben Laenen   2008-10-21 15:19:52 EDT ---
Open your character map and look for U+F000 () in DejaVu Sans. If it looks
like "88" you're using the autohinter. If it has a different number you're
using hinting instructions from the font.

If you're only using Fedora packages you most likely have the autohinter
enabled and the bytecode interpreter for the hinting instructions disabled
(because of a patents issue).

[Bug 467745] Wrong rendering of cyrillic letter tse ( ц ) at 8pt and 10pt

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

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comments should be made in the comments box of this bug.

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--- Comment #4 from Nicolas Mailhot   2008-10-21 15:59:11 EDT ---
(In reply to comment #2)
> Erm, how to find out, am I using autohinter or not?
>
> I'm not using freetype-freeworld from linva, only stock one from Fedora.

If you're using stock Fedora you have the autohinter, which means the bug
should be reassigned to freetype (but do the check Ben suggested first)

[Bug 467745] Wrong rendering of cyrillic letter tse ( ц ) at 8pt and 10pt

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--- Comment #5 from Alexey Torkhov   2008-10-21 16:06:19 EDT ---
Yes, it's 88, so autohinter.

Nothing could be fixed in font itself? Reassign to freetype?

[Bug 467745] Wrong rendering of cyrillic letter tse ( ц ) at 8pt and 10pt

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

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comments should be made in the comments box of this bug.

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--- Comment #6 from Ben Laenen   2008-10-22 06:54:24 EDT ---
(In reply to comment #5)
> Nothing could be fixed in font itself?

Indeed, a font can't influence the behaviour of the autohinter in any way.
> Reassign to freetype?

Yes.

[Bug 467745] Wrong rendering of cyrillic letter tse ( ц ) at 8pt and 10pt

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

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comments should be made in the comments box of this bug.

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Nicolas Mailhot  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|[e-mail] |[e-mail],
                   |                            |[e-mail]
          Component|dejavu-fonts                |freetype
         AssignedTo|[e-mail] |[e-mail]

[Bug 467745] Wrong rendering of cyrillic letter tse ( ц ) at 8pt and 10pt

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

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comments should be made in the comments box of this bug.

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=467745

--- Comment #7 from Behdad Esfahbod   2008-11-19 10:15:09 EDT ---
At what dpi?  I can't reproduce it.  Play with the numbers in the following
command line and see which ones hit the bug for you:

$ pango-view  --text ц --font 'dejavu sans 8pt' --dpi 96

Also, a screenshot helps.  At the end, nothing I can do about it here.  Needs
to be reported upstream to FreeType.

[Bug 467745] Wrong rendering of cyrillic letter tse ( ц ) at 8pt and 10pt

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

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comments should be made in the comments box of this bug.

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--- Comment #8 from Alexey Torkhov   2008-11-22 04:32:45 EDT ---
Created an attachment (id=324400)
 --> (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=324400)
Bad rendering at 8pt

Here are screenshots from gnome charmap at 8 and 10 pt.
I was unable to reproduce it with pango-view too.

[Bug 467745] Wrong rendering of cyrillic letter tse ( ц ) at 8pt and 10pt

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

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comments should be made in the comments box of this bug.

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--- Comment #9 from Alexey Torkhov   2008-11-22 04:33:15 EDT ---
Created an attachment (id=324401)
 --> (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=324401)
Bad rendering at 10pt

[Bug 467745] Wrong rendering of cyrillic letter tse ( ц ) at 8pt and 10pt

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

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comments should be made in the comments box of this bug.

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--- Comment #10 from Alexey Torkhov   2008-11-22 06:23:26 EDT ---
I've played with font setting in gnome appearance properties, it now renders
properly for 10 pt, and I can't find setting with wrong rendering at that size.
But it renders without the tail for 8 pt with Medium and Full hinting.

Resolution is set to 86 dpi in that dialog.

[Bug 467745] Wrong rendering of cyrillic letter tse ( ц ) at 8pt and 10pt

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional
comments should be made in the comments box of this bug.

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=467745

Nicolas Mailhot  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |[e-mail]

--- Comment #11 from Nicolas Mailhot   2008-11-22 07:11:10 EDT ---
86dpi is borderline for good text rendering. Microsoft has been targetting
100dpi for example for at least a decade in windows (reduced to 96 to give
margins to shoddy hardware manufacturers).

If your hardware is really 86dpi (as in actual pixels per inch), there's not
much the best font can do (screens sold to computer gamers have often this kind
of low pixel density but gamers are not known for reading lots of text)

In paper print, for example, standard is 600dpi and 150 is already a
bad-quality magazine.

[Bug 467745] Wrong rendering of cyrillic letter tse ( ц ) at 8pt and 10pt

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

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comments should be made in the comments box of this bug.

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=467745

--- Comment #12 from Ben Laenen   2008-11-22 07:18:13 EDT ---
(In reply to comment #11)
> 86dpi is borderline for good text rendering. Microsoft has been targetting
> 100dpi for example for at least a decade in windows (reduced to 96 to give
> margins to shoddy hardware manufacturers).
>
> If your hardware is really 86dpi (as in actual pixels per inch), there's not
> much the best font can do (screens sold to computer gamers have often this kind
> of low pixel density but gamers are not known for reading lots of text)
>
> In paper print, for example, standard is 600dpi and 150 is already a
> bad-quality magazine.

Low resolution or not, at these sizes there's no reason the autohinter
shouldn't be able to render the tail correctly. It manages to do it with щ just
fine as can be seen on the screenshots.

[Bug 467745] Wrong rendering of cyrillic letter tse ( ц ) at 8pt and 10pt

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

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comments should be made in the comments box of this bug.

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Bug Zapper  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
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                 CC|                            |fedora-triage-list@redhat.c
                   |                            |om

--- Comment #13 from Bug Zapper   2009-06-10 07:09:28 EDT ---
This message is a reminder that Fedora 9 is nearing its end of life.
Approximately 30 (thirty) days from now Fedora will stop maintaining
and issuing updates for Fedora 9.  It is Fedora's policy to close all
bug reports from releases that are no longer maintained.  At that time
this bug will be closed as WONTFIX if it remains open with a Fedora 
'version' of '9'.

Package Maintainer: If you wish for this bug to remain open because you
plan to fix it in a currently maintained version, simply change the 'version' 
to a later Fedora version prior to Fedora 9's end of life.

Bug Reporter: Thank you for reporting this issue and we are sorry that 
we may not be able to fix it before Fedora 9 is end of life.  If you 
would still like to see this bug fixed and are able to reproduce it 
against a later version of Fedora please change the 'version' of this 
bug to the applicable version.  If you are unable to change the version, 
please add a comment here and someone will do it for you.

Although we aim to fix as many bugs as possible during every release's 
lifetime, sometimes those efforts are overtaken by events.  Often a 
more recent Fedora release includes newer upstream software that fixes 
bugs or makes them obsolete.

The process we are following is described here: 
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/HouseKeeping

[Bug 467745] Wrong rendering of cyrillic letter tse ( ц ) at 8pt and 10pt

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

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comments should be made in the comments box of this bug.

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Noura El hawary  changed:

What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|NEW                         |CLOSED
                 CC|                            |[e-mail]
         Resolution|                            |WONTFIX

--- Comment #14 from Noura El hawary   2009-07-15 05:04:49 EDT ---
Fedora 9 changed to end-of-life (EOL) status on 2009-07-10. Fedora 9 is 
no longer maintained, which means that it will not receive any further 
security or bug fix updates. As a result we are closing this bug.

If you can reproduce this bug against a currently maintained version of 
Fedora please feel free to reopen this bug against that version.

Thank you for reporting this bug and we are sorry it could not be fixed.