The STIX fonts do **NOT** currently have the math OpenType script. What this means is that they have nice collection of glyphs, but no special layout features, so they're pretty useless for actually typesetting something with them. The math script, aka MATH table, is a MS extension to OpenType. MS has not yet officially submitted any documentation for these math layout extensions -- and they are quite extensive -- not even in the draft 1.5/1.6 OpenType spec. Despite this, it is the de-facto OpenType math standard, and support for it has appeared in FOSS projects.
These extensions are implemented only in the Cambria Math font (MS), and now in Asana Math (FOSS). Fonts using these extensions are currenly usable only in MS Office 2007 (and some other minor non-FOSS products), but out of the FOSS world only XeTeX supports them right now. LuaTeX is scheduled to add support by the end of this year, together with the release of the GUST Math font.
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 5:52 AM, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams ivazqueznet@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 05:41 +0300, Vasile Gaburici wrote:
It's nice to see that the first (& only?) FOSS OpenType math font,
STIXFonts? Well, not quite FOSS yet, but soon hopefully...
http://www.stixfonts.org/user_license.html
-- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams ivazqueznet@gmail.com
It turns out that STIX beta fonts have a modicum of MATH table (it didn't occur to me check), but not math script support. Because of the MATH table, STIXGeneral gets recognized as math font in Office 2007, but it doesn't really work; as soon as you type anything, you get Cambria Math instead. See: http://blogs.msdn.com/murrays/archive/2007/11/06/stix-beta-fonts.aspx. Also, the way the STIX fonts are spread across multiple otf files doesn't work with any typesetting software; but hey, if you just want to gawk at the glyphs with unicode.org's unibook viewer, it's fine.
$ otfinfo -t /usr/share/fonts/stix/STIXGeneral.otf 251327 CFF 28 FFTM 30 GDEF 242 MATH 96 OS/2 4346 cmap 54 head 36 hhea 10026 hmtx 6 maxp 6393 name 32 post 572 prop $ otfinfo -s /usr/share/fonts/stix/STIXGeneral.otf <<nothing>>
$ otfinfo -t /usr/share/fonts/asana-math/asana-math.otf 354717 CFF 28 FFTM 30 GDEF 80 GPOS 1268 GSUB 12168 MATH 96 OS/2 2262 cmap 44 feat 54 head 36 hhea 12076 hmtx 6 maxp 128 morx 15289 name 32 post 542 prop $ otfinfo -s /usr/share/fonts/asana-math/asana-math.otf DFLT Default grek Greek latn Latin math <unknown script> $ otfinfo -f --script=math /usr/share/fonts/asana-math/asana-math.otf dtls <unknown feature> onum Oldstyle Figures salt Stylistic Alternates ssty <unknown feature>
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 6:24 AM, Vasile Gaburici vgaburici@gmail.com wrote:
The STIX fonts do **NOT** currently have the math OpenType script. What this means is that they have nice collection of glyphs, but no special layout features, so they're pretty useless for actually typesetting something with them. The math script, aka MATH table, is a MS extension to OpenType. MS has not yet officially submitted any documentation for these math layout extensions -- and they are quite extensive -- not even in the draft 1.5/1.6 OpenType spec. Despite this, it is the de-facto OpenType math standard, and support for it has appeared in FOSS projects.
These extensions are implemented only in the Cambria Math font (MS), and now in Asana Math (FOSS). Fonts using these extensions are currenly usable only in MS Office 2007 (and some other minor non-FOSS products), but out of the FOSS world only XeTeX supports them right now. LuaTeX is scheduled to add support by the end of this year, together with the release of the GUST Math font.
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 5:52 AM, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams ivazqueznet@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 05:41 +0300, Vasile Gaburici wrote:
It's nice to see that the first (& only?) FOSS OpenType math font,
STIXFonts? Well, not quite FOSS yet, but soon hopefully...
http://www.stixfonts.org/user_license.html
-- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams ivazqueznet@gmail.com
Unlike Office 2007, XeTeX checks if a font contains the math script, not the MATH table to decide whether it will work or not for Unicode math. So with STIX it complains:
Package fontspec Warning: Font "STIXGeneral/ICU" at 12.0pt does not contain script 'Math'
And predictably, it doesn't work: http://www.cs.umd.edu/~gaburici/uni-asana.pdf http://www.cs.umd.edu/~gaburici/uni-cambria.pdf http://www.cs.umd.edu/~gaburici/uni-stix.pdf
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 7:34 AM, Vasile Gaburici vgaburici@gmail.com wrote:
It turns out that STIX beta fonts have a modicum of MATH table (it didn't occur to me check), but not math script support. Because of the MATH table, STIXGeneral gets recognized as math font in Office 2007, but it doesn't really work; as soon as you type anything, you get Cambria Math instead. See: http://blogs.msdn.com/murrays/archive/2007/11/06/stix-beta-fonts.aspx. Also, the way the STIX fonts are spread across multiple otf files doesn't work with any typesetting software; but hey, if you just want to gawk at the glyphs with unicode.org's unibook viewer, it's fine.
$ otfinfo -t /usr/share/fonts/stix/STIXGeneral.otf 251327 CFF 28 FFTM 30 GDEF 242 MATH 96 OS/2 4346 cmap 54 head 36 hhea 10026 hmtx 6 maxp 6393 name 32 post 572 prop $ otfinfo -s /usr/share/fonts/stix/STIXGeneral.otf <<nothing>>
$ otfinfo -t /usr/share/fonts/asana-math/asana-math.otf 354717 CFF 28 FFTM 30 GDEF 80 GPOS 1268 GSUB 12168 MATH 96 OS/2 2262 cmap 44 feat 54 head 36 hhea 12076 hmtx 6 maxp 128 morx 15289 name 32 post 542 prop $ otfinfo -s /usr/share/fonts/asana-math/asana-math.otf DFLT Default grek Greek latn Latin math <unknown script> $ otfinfo -f --script=math /usr/share/fonts/asana-math/asana-math.otf dtls <unknown feature> onum Oldstyle Figures salt Stylistic Alternates ssty <unknown feature>
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 6:24 AM, Vasile Gaburici vgaburici@gmail.com wrote:
The STIX fonts do **NOT** currently have the math OpenType script. What this means is that they have nice collection of glyphs, but no special layout features, so they're pretty useless for actually typesetting something with them. The math script, aka MATH table, is a MS extension to OpenType. MS has not yet officially submitted any documentation for these math layout extensions -- and they are quite extensive -- not even in the draft 1.5/1.6 OpenType spec. Despite this, it is the de-facto OpenType math standard, and support for it has appeared in FOSS projects.
These extensions are implemented only in the Cambria Math font (MS), and now in Asana Math (FOSS). Fonts using these extensions are currenly usable only in MS Office 2007 (and some other minor non-FOSS products), but out of the FOSS world only XeTeX supports them right now. LuaTeX is scheduled to add support by the end of this year, together with the release of the GUST Math font.
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 5:52 AM, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams ivazqueznet@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 05:41 +0300, Vasile Gaburici wrote:
It's nice to see that the first (& only?) FOSS OpenType math font,
STIXFonts? Well, not quite FOSS yet, but soon hopefully...
http://www.stixfonts.org/user_license.html
-- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams ivazqueznet@gmail.com
It turns out that fontforge can already grok MATH tables [http://fontforge.sourceforge.net/math.html], so I had a look at the MATH tables oft the three contenders.
No surprises that STIX doesn't work: a few constants are defined, but the rest of the sub-tables, like accents, shapes or constructions are completely empty. Calling this release a beta was a bit of a stretch...
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 7:55 AM, Vasile Gaburici vgaburici@gmail.com wrote:
Unlike Office 2007, XeTeX checks if a font contains the math script, not the MATH table to decide whether it will work or not for Unicode math. So with STIX it complains:
Package fontspec Warning: Font "STIXGeneral/ICU" at 12.0pt does not contain script 'Math'
And predictably, it doesn't work: http://www.cs.umd.edu/~gaburici/uni-asana.pdf http://www.cs.umd.edu/~gaburici/uni-cambria.pdf http://www.cs.umd.edu/~gaburici/uni-stix.pdf
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 7:34 AM, Vasile Gaburici vgaburici@gmail.com wrote:
It turns out that STIX beta fonts have a modicum of MATH table (it didn't occur to me check), but not math script support. Because of the MATH table, STIXGeneral gets recognized as math font in Office 2007, but it doesn't really work; as soon as you type anything, you get Cambria Math instead. See: http://blogs.msdn.com/murrays/archive/2007/11/06/stix-beta-fonts.aspx. Also, the way the STIX fonts are spread across multiple otf files doesn't work with any typesetting software; but hey, if you just want to gawk at the glyphs with unicode.org's unibook viewer, it's fine.
$ otfinfo -t /usr/share/fonts/stix/STIXGeneral.otf 251327 CFF 28 FFTM 30 GDEF 242 MATH 96 OS/2 4346 cmap 54 head 36 hhea 10026 hmtx 6 maxp 6393 name 32 post 572 prop $ otfinfo -s /usr/share/fonts/stix/STIXGeneral.otf <<nothing>>
$ otfinfo -t /usr/share/fonts/asana-math/asana-math.otf 354717 CFF 28 FFTM 30 GDEF 80 GPOS 1268 GSUB 12168 MATH 96 OS/2 2262 cmap 44 feat 54 head 36 hhea 12076 hmtx 6 maxp 128 morx 15289 name 32 post 542 prop $ otfinfo -s /usr/share/fonts/asana-math/asana-math.otf DFLT Default grek Greek latn Latin math <unknown script> $ otfinfo -f --script=math /usr/share/fonts/asana-math/asana-math.otf dtls <unknown feature> onum Oldstyle Figures salt Stylistic Alternates ssty <unknown feature>
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 6:24 AM, Vasile Gaburici vgaburici@gmail.com wrote:
The STIX fonts do **NOT** currently have the math OpenType script. What this means is that they have nice collection of glyphs, but no special layout features, so they're pretty useless for actually typesetting something with them. The math script, aka MATH table, is a MS extension to OpenType. MS has not yet officially submitted any documentation for these math layout extensions -- and they are quite extensive -- not even in the draft 1.5/1.6 OpenType spec. Despite this, it is the de-facto OpenType math standard, and support for it has appeared in FOSS projects.
These extensions are implemented only in the Cambria Math font (MS), and now in Asana Math (FOSS). Fonts using these extensions are currenly usable only in MS Office 2007 (and some other minor non-FOSS products), but out of the FOSS world only XeTeX supports them right now. LuaTeX is scheduled to add support by the end of this year, together with the release of the GUST Math font.
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 5:52 AM, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams ivazqueznet@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 05:41 +0300, Vasile Gaburici wrote:
It's nice to see that the first (& only?) FOSS OpenType math font,
STIXFonts? Well, not quite FOSS yet, but soon hopefully...
http://www.stixfonts.org/user_license.html
-- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams ivazqueznet@gmail.com
2008/8/13 Vasile Gaburici vgaburici@gmail.com:
The math script, aka MATH table, is a MS extension to OpenType. MS has not yet officially submitted any documentation for these math layout extensions -- and they are quite extensive -- not even in the draft 1.5/1.6 OpenType spec. Despite this, it is the de-facto OpenType math standard, and support for it has appeared in FOSS projects.
These extensions are implemented only in the Cambria Math font (MS), and now in Asana Math (FOSS).
AIUI, the MATH table in Cambria is developed specifically for Cambria and will not be a 100% fit for other fonts; this is hy MS hasnt done anything about documenting it properly.
Dave
No, there actualy is some (unofficial?) MS documentation for MATH tables. It has been seen by both George Williams (fontforge) and Apostolos Syropoulos (asana).
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Dave Crossland dave@lab6.com wrote:
2008/8/13 Vasile Gaburici vgaburici@gmail.com:
The math script, aka MATH table, is a MS extension to OpenType. MS has not yet officially submitted any documentation for these math layout extensions -- and they are quite extensive -- not even in the draft 1.5/1.6 OpenType spec. Despite this, it is the de-facto OpenType math standard, and support for it has appeared in FOSS projects.
These extensions are implemented only in the Cambria Math font (MS), and now in Asana Math (FOSS).
AIUI, the MATH table in Cambria is developed specifically for Cambria and will not be a 100% fit for other fonts; this is hy MS hasnt done anything about documenting it properly.
Dave
2008/8/13 Vasile Gaburici vgaburici@gmail.com:
No, there actualy is some (unofficial?) MS documentation for MATH tables. It has been seen by both George Williams (fontforge) and Apostolos Syropoulos (asana).
Sorry; I didnt put enough emphasis on _properly_ :-)
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Dave Crossland dave@lab6.com wrote:
2008/8/13 Vasile Gaburici vgaburici@gmail.com:
MS has not yet officially submitted any documentation for these math layout extensions
AIUI, the MATH table in Cambria is developed specifically for Cambria and will not be a 100% fit for other fonts; this is hy MS hasnt done anything about documenting it properly.
Vasile Gaburici wrote:
No, there actualy is some (unofficial?) MS documentation for MATH tables. It has been seen by both George Williams (fontforge) and Apostolos Syropoulos (asana).
Ack. If someone needs the document, ask me offlist.
behdad
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Dave Crossland dave@lab6.com wrote:
2008/8/13 Vasile Gaburici vgaburici@gmail.com:
The math script, aka MATH table, is a MS extension to OpenType. MS has not yet officially submitted any documentation for these math layout extensions -- and they are quite extensive -- not even in the draft 1.5/1.6 OpenType spec. Despite this, it is the de-facto OpenType math standard, and support for it has appeared in FOSS projects.
These extensions are implemented only in the Cambria Math font (MS), and now in Asana Math (FOSS).
AIUI, the MATH table in Cambria is developed specifically for Cambria and will not be a 100% fit for other fonts; this is hy MS hasnt done anything about documenting it properly.
Dave
Fedora-fonts-list mailing list Fedora-fonts-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-list
As for the "developed specifically for Cambria" that's a myth. If you want to make statements like that, it's more appropriate to say that TeX was designed for CM. There are 22 dimensions for a TeX math font. There are over 50 dimensions ("constants") for an OpenType MATH table, and some of them are lists! The MS folks in charge of this have stated on their blogs & typophile that they wanted to move most of the TeX built-in constants into the font. They were not kidding.
MATH table flexibility does not stop there, you can have as many size variants as you like say for parentheses or radicals; these are specified as lists; unlike TeX there are no built-in rules for choosing the next "bigger" glyph from the font. Asana makes good use of this, there are up to 5-6 variants for things like widehats, tildes etc. When it runs out of the pre-designed stuff, it applies a construction rule that's also defined via lists, although this isn't anymore flexible than TeX AFAICT. You are limited to horizontal and vertical constructions.
There's also a sub-table specifying alignment axis for math accents. This differs from how mark or mkmk work. The positioning info is shared between the accent and the letter. I don't think TeX has this at all. There's also some adjustment field, but fontforge crashes if you click on it :(
On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Dave Crossland dave@lab6.com wrote:
2008/8/13 Vasile Gaburici vgaburici@gmail.com:
The math script, aka MATH table, is a MS extension to OpenType. MS has not yet officially submitted any documentation for these math layout extensions -- and they are quite extensive -- not even in the draft 1.5/1.6 OpenType spec. Despite this, it is the de-facto OpenType math standard, and support for it has appeared in FOSS projects.
These extensions are implemented only in the Cambria Math font (MS), and now in Asana Math (FOSS).
AIUI, the MATH table in Cambria is developed specifically for Cambria and will not be a 100% fit for other fonts; this is hy MS hasnt done anything about documenting it properly.
Dave
2008/8/13 Vasile Gaburici vgaburici@gmail.com:
As for the "developed specifically for Cambria" that's a myth.
Okay cool - glad to hear this :-)
There's also some adjustment field, but fontforge crashes if you click on it :(
I hope you'll send GWW the bug report :-)
-
Behdad Esfahbod -
Dave Crossland -
Vasile Gaburici