Re: L10N - What is gitman-pages-l10n ?

[Akira TAGOH]

On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 3:21 PM, Jean-Baptiste Holcroft
<jean-baptiste(a)holcroft.fr&gt; wrote:
> > Can you please describe the process and tell it is the same for
> every
> > languages ? 
Not that much different to others. POT is available on Zanata and the
latest one is expected to be translated.

> >
> > Different teams translate man pages :
> > https://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/translations.html and I see the
> > possibility to translate for these languages in Zanata. 
I know there are some teams working on translating man-pages. but they
are managing the source on the their own repo for their targeted
language.
Ideallly l10n version of man-pages should be up-to-date with the
English version and sync up the release to prevent the outdated. this
is/was the first step to unity them into one for l10n version and this
sort of infrastructure should be moved into upstream in the future.

>  --
>  Jean-Baptiste Holcroft
>  


-- 
Akira TAGOH

L10N - What is gitman-pages-l10n ?

[Jean-Baptiste]

Le 2016-08-30 12:23, Akira TAGOH a écrit :
>  On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 3:21 PM, Jean-Baptiste Holcroft
>  <jean-baptiste(a)holcroft.fr&gt; wrote:
> >> Can you please describe the process and tell it is the same for every
> >> languages ?
>  
>  Not that much different to others. POT is available on Zanata and the
>  latest one is expected to be translated.
>  
> >> 
> >> Different teams translate man pages :
> >> https://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/translations.html and I see the
> >> possibility to translate for these languages in Zanata.
>  
>  I know there are some teams working on translating man-pages. but they
>  are managing the source on the their own repo for their targeted
>  language.
>  Ideallly l10n version of man-pages should be up-to-date with the
>  English version and sync up the release to prevent the outdated. this
>  is/was the first step to unity them into one for l10n version and this
>  sort of infrastructure should be moved into upstream in the future.
>  
> > --
> > Jean-Baptiste Holcroft
> >  
Thanks for your answer! It really is weird that 
https://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/translations.html do not mention 
your project.

Please have a look at this article wich looks really right to me : 
https://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/translations.html

It basically say it is a huge commitment to translate man-pages. And 
each language team should think about it twice before starting it.

At the moment, this project looks confusing to me.

Content is at two different places (I assume translate.zanata.org is to 
be deleted?) :
https://translate.zanata.org/project/view/man-pages-l10n
https://fedora.zanata.org/project/view/man-pages-l10n

On the 97 languages available for translation, the only translation are 
in german and very far from being complete.
In addition, there is a few dozens of documents per "Version/branch"

I do not see any pull from zanata in : 
https://git.fedorahosted.org/git/man-pages-l10n.git
They also looks quite old, man-pages-4.07 is available in kernel.org : 
http://git.kernel.org/cgit/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git

I do not see how it is related to current man-pages packages : 
https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/s/man-pages
Does the german content translated in Zanata reach the end-user ?

What I want to say is : it looks like a good idea, but without language 
team support, it is just a risk of wasting rare ressources : translator 
time.

As they looks like to be on sourceforge + no translation platform.
The only possibility I see is that you suggest the couple Pagure+Zanata 
to help translator teams because we have great tools.
But tools are nothing without team management around it, and this work 
should be done with accordance of upstream project.

Can you please give more details about this project so translators can 
understand detailed process, lifecycle of man-pages compaired to Fedora 
lifecycle, stuff like these? And clean old stuff that should not exist 
anymore ?
I also suggest to migrate to pagure so this FAS group is not needed 
anymore, there is many other advantages.

Do you have time to invest in this?

L10N - What is gitman-pages-l10n ?

[Akira TAGOH]

On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 9:38 PM, Jean-Baptiste Holcroft
<jean-baptiste(a)holcroft.fr&gt; wrote:
>  At the moment, this project looks confusing to me.
>
>  Content is at two different places (I assume translate.zanata.org is to be
>  deleted?) : 
Yes, that's true as all of versions are marked as the read-only.

>  On the 97 languages available for translation, the only translation
> are in
>  german and very far from being complete.
>  In addition, there is a few dozens of documents per "Version/branch"
>
>  I do not see any pull from zanata in :
>  https://git.fedorahosted.org/git/man-pages-l10n.git 
Yes, because of the above reason. still not time to be pulled at this moment...

>  They also looks quite old, man-pages-4.07 is available in kernel.org
> :
>  http://git.kernel.org/cgit/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git 
Right. not yet working on it due to the other work.

>  I do not see how it is related to current man-pages packages :
>  https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/s/man-pages
>  Does the german content translated in Zanata reach the end-user ? 
As it isn't advertised in upstream page, this isn't the official
project for man-pages so no.

>  What I want to say is : it looks like a good idea, but without
> language team
>  support, it is just a risk of wasting rare ressources : translator time. 
Exactly. so this may be a good time to move forward.

>  As they looks like to be on sourceforge + no translation platform.
>  The only possibility I see is that you suggest the couple Pagure+Zanata to
>  help translator teams because we have great tools.
>  But tools are nothing without team management around it, and this work
>  should be done with accordance of upstream project.
>
>  Can you please give more details about this project so translators can
>  understand detailed process, lifecycle of man-pages compaired to Fedora
>  lifecycle, stuff like these? And clean old stuff that should not exist
>  anymore ?
>  I also suggest to migrate to pagure so this FAS group is not needed anymore,
>  there is many other advantages.
>
>  Do you have time to invest in this? 
Aha. I don't have strong opinion for that. if you think it would be
better, let's do it that way.

-- 
Akira TAGOH

L10N - What is gitman-pages-l10n ?

[Jean-Baptiste]

Le 2016-08-31 04:25, Akira TAGOH a écrit :
> > What I want to say is : it looks like a good idea, but without 
> > language team
> > support, it is just a risk of wasting rare ressources : translator 
> > time.
>  
>  Exactly. so this may be a good time to move forward.
>  
> > As they looks like to be on sourceforge + no translation platform.
> > The only possibility I see is that you suggest the couple 
> > Pagure+Zanata to
> > help translator teams because we have great tools.
> > But tools are nothing without team management around it, and this work
> > should be done with accordance of upstream project.
> > 
> > Can you please give more details about this project so translators can
> > understand detailed process, lifecycle of man-pages compaired to 
> > Fedora
> > lifecycle, stuff like these? And clean old stuff that should not exist
> > anymore ?
> > I also suggest to migrate to pagure so this FAS group is not needed 
> > anymore,
> > there is many other advantages.
> > 
> > Do you have time to invest in this?
>  
>  Aha. I don't have strong opinion for that. if you think it would be
>  better, let's do it that way. 
Good ! 😊

I suggest you to start with german team as they started to translate it 
means there is an interest.

Please remove at least french language. I need fedora french team 
approval and debian perkamon team approval before using Zanata for this.
Here is my request to perkamon : 
http://listes.traduc.org/pipermail/perkamon-fr/2016-August/000606.html