Hi
Is there still interest in creating a Fedora Games spin. I might be able to cook up a kickstart file easily and we can aim to have one along with the Fedora 8 release.
Btw, is anyone working on packaging http://openquartz.sourceforge.net/?
Rahul
Hi
Is there still interest in creating a Fedora Games spin. I might be able to cook up a kickstart file easily and we can aim to have one along with the Fedora 8 release.
That'd be great. We were toying with a liveCD: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Games/GamesLiveCD
I;d imagine you could start there.
Btw, is anyone working on packaging http://openquartz.sourceforge.net/?
Not currently, but it's on the SIG Wishlist. I'll put it on my todo list, unless someone else has started.
Rahul
Fedora-games-list mailing list Fedora-games-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-games-list
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
Is there still interest in creating a Fedora Games spin. I might be able to cook up a kickstart file easily and we can aim to have one along with the Fedora 8 release.
Yes that would definitely be a good spin to have!
We have been playing with the idea, but sofar none of us has found the time (or the bandwidth need for composing in a reasonable time in my case).
Basicly one could take the live cd and add all packages in the games groups in comps, we already agreed that a dvd would be best / is almost unavoidable.
Regards,
Hans
On 9/11/07, Hans de Goede j.w.r.degoede@hhs.nl wrote:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
Is there still interest in creating a Fedora Games spin. I might be able to cook up a kickstart file easily and we can aim to have one along with the Fedora 8 release.
Yes that would definitely be a good spin to have!
We have been playing with the idea, but sofar none of us has found the time (or the bandwidth need for composing in a reasonable time in my case).
Basicly one could take the live cd and add all packages in the games groups in comps, we already agreed that a dvd would be best / is almost unavoidable.
Do we put both KDE and GNOME on the DVD?
On 9/11/07, Hans de Goede j.w.r.degoede@hhs.nl wrote:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
Is there still interest in creating a Fedora Games spin. I might be
able
to cook up a kickstart file easily and we can aim to have one along
with
the Fedora 8 release.
Yes that would definitely be a good spin to have!
We have been playing with the idea, but sofar none of us has found the time (or the bandwidth need for composing in a reasonable time in my case).
Basicly one could take the live cd and add all packages in the games groups in comps, we already agreed that a dvd would be best / is almost unavoidable.
Do we put both KDE and GNOME on the DVD?
If we have room, but I'd cut in in favor of more games if we need the space. Or, hell, have the libs for both and install xfce. :)P
Fedora-games-list mailing list Fedora-games-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-games-list
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Christopher Stone wrote:
Do we put both KDE and GNOME on the DVD?
I wouldn't do that as it rapidly consumes a lot of space you'll need for the games.
- -- Kind regards,
Jeroen van Meeuwen - -kanarip
- -- http://www.kanarip.com/ RHCE, LPIC-2, MCP, CCNA C6B0 7FB4 43E6 CDDA D258 F70B 28DE 9FDA 9342 BF08
On 9/11/07, Jeroen van Meeuwen kanarip@kanarip.com wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Christopher Stone wrote:
Do we put both KDE and GNOME on the DVD?
I wouldn't do that as it rapidly consumes a lot of space you'll need for the games.
So whats the plan then? We put both KDE and GNOME on it now if it fits. Then we reduce to just GNOME and then to just XFCE? Does anyone have space requirements for minimal KDE, GNOME, XFCE installs?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Christopher Stone wrote:
On 9/11/07, Jeroen van Meeuwen kanarip@kanarip.com wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Christopher Stone wrote:
Do we put both KDE and GNOME on the DVD?
I wouldn't do that as it rapidly consumes a lot of space you'll need for the games.
So whats the plan then? We put both KDE and GNOME on it now if it fits. Then we reduce to just GNOME and then to just XFCE? Does anyone have space requirements for minimal KDE, GNOME, XFCE installs?
Maybe some of us could just use one or the other tool (maybe pull them from their upstream repos and run from source) and start playing with a kickstart file that gives you the appropriate games, desktops, other packages and settings.
- -- Kind regards,
Jeroen van Meeuwen - -kanarip
- -- http://www.kanarip.com/ RHCE, LPIC-2, MCP, CCNA C6B0 7FB4 43E6 CDDA D258 F70B 28DE 9FDA 9342 BF08
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Christopher Stone wrote:
Do we put both KDE and GNOME on the DVD?
We can but I will go with just GNOME and put in more games. There is no point in having two desktop environments in a DVD showcasing games.
The problem is that if we add the 'kdegames' package then it will pull in almost all of kde anyway.
--Wart
Michael Thomas wrote:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
We can but I will go with just GNOME and put in more games. There is no point in having two desktop environments in a DVD showcasing games.
The problem is that if we add the 'kdegames' package then it will pull in almost all of kde anyway.
But does make any sense to have a version of MineSweeper or Solitaire from each GNOME *and* KDE? (and drag a lot of libraries only for such redundant games)
On 9/11/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Christopher Stone wrote:
Do we put both KDE and GNOME on the DVD?
We can but I will go with just GNOME and put in more games. There is no point in having two desktop environments in a DVD showcasing games.
Wait, so you are saying we don't have enough room already to fit all games and both desktops? If we remove GNOME does that also allow more games?
And I'm still not convinced GNOME is actually smaller in size than KDE. Why not use KDE instead of GNOME if KDE allows more games? Or indeed, XFCE...
Christopher Stone wrote:
On 9/11/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Christopher Stone wrote:
Do we put both KDE and GNOME on the DVD?
We can but I will go with just GNOME and put in more games. There is no point in having two desktop environments in a DVD showcasing games.
Wait, so you are saying we don't have enough room already to fit all games and both desktops? If we remove GNOME does that also allow more games?
We won't have enough room to fit all games anyway. Only selected games and we will have more of those if we include less unrelated packages. I am not very interested in a debate of which desktop environment as such. I will go with GNOME since that is the spec I am deriving from unless there is strong objection to that.
Rahul
Christopher Stone wrote:
On 9/11/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Christopher Stone wrote:
Do we put both KDE and GNOME on the DVD?
We can but I will go with just GNOME and put in more games. There is no point in having two desktop environments in a DVD showcasing games.
Wait, so you are saying we don't have enough room already to fit all games and both desktops? If we remove GNOME does that also allow more games?
We won't have enough room to fit all games anyway. Only selected games and we will have more of those if we include less unrelated packages. I am not very interested in a debate of which desktop environment as such. I will go with GNOME since that is the spec I am deriving from unless there is strong objection to that.
+1
Or, we could always use BlackBox. (ducks)
Rahul
Fedora-games-list mailing list Fedora-games-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-games-list
On 9/11/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Christopher Stone wrote:
On 9/11/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Christopher Stone wrote:
Do we put both KDE and GNOME on the DVD?
We can but I will go with just GNOME and put in more games. There is no point in having two desktop environments in a DVD showcasing games.
Wait, so you are saying we don't have enough room already to fit all games and both desktops? If we remove GNOME does that also allow more games?
We won't have enough room to fit all games anyway. Only selected games and we will have more of those if we include less unrelated packages. I am not very interested in a debate of which desktop environment as such. I will go with GNOME since that is the spec I am deriving from unless there is strong objection to that.
Wow, which games take up the most space? I had no idea we had space problems already. I thought the space problems were only for CDs. Is there any kind of breakdown on space requirements for each game?
Christopher Stone wrote:
Wow, which games take up the most space? I had no idea we had space problems already. I thought the space problems were only for CDs. Is there any kind of breakdown on space requirements for each game?
I need to sync my local copy of rawhide for a complete breakdown but usually the data package for many 3D games are considerably large. nexuiz-data is 261MB and openarena-data is 260MB for example.
Rahul
On 9/11/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Christopher Stone wrote:
Wow, which games take up the most space? I had no idea we had space problems already. I thought the space problems were only for CDs. Is there any kind of breakdown on space requirements for each game?
I need to sync my local copy of rawhide for a complete breakdown but usually the data package for many 3D games are considerably large. nexuiz-data is 261MB and openarena-data is 260MB for example.
We are talking about a DVD here right?
Christopher Stone wrote:
On 9/11/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Christopher Stone wrote:
Wow, which games take up the most space? I had no idea we had space problems already. I thought the space problems were only for CDs. Is there any kind of breakdown on space requirements for each game?
I need to sync my local copy of rawhide for a complete breakdown but usually the data package for many 3D games are considerably large. nexuiz-data is 261MB and openarena-data is 260MB for example.
We are talking about a DVD here right?
Yep. Check out the kickstart file I have provided and do a local spin and see what size it is.
Rahul
On 9/20/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Yep. Check out the kickstart file I have provided and do a local spin and see what size it is.
Where was that again?
Christopher Stone wrote:
On 9/20/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Yep. Check out the kickstart file I have provided and do a local spin and see what size it is.
Where was that again?
See later mails on this list for the details.
Rahul
On 9/20/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Christopher Stone wrote:
On 9/20/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Yep. Check out the kickstart file I have provided and do a local spin and see what size it is.
Where was that again?
See later mails on this list for the details.
Okay, well I guess I don't have time to do that. So I guess I can assume we have plenty of free space on the DVD. So, we have have lots of free space, why don't we include KDE?
Christopher Stone wrote:
On 9/20/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Christopher Stone wrote:
On 9/20/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Yep. Check out the kickstart file I have provided and do a local spin and see what size it is.
Where was that again?
See later mails on this list for the details.
Okay, well I guess I don't have time to do that. So I guess I can assume we have plenty of free space on the DVD. So, we have have lots of free space, why don't we include KDE?
I believe I already answered your question earlier. This is a games spin and I don't think the goals filling up an entire DVD if any space is left based on your unverified assumptions to put additional desktop environments in it. A Fedora games spin is a show case for good Free software games. If users want KDE, they already have a KDE spin available.
Rahul
On 9/20/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Christopher Stone wrote:
On 9/20/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Christopher Stone wrote:
On 9/20/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Yep. Check out the kickstart file I have provided and do a local spin and see what size it is.
Where was that again?
See later mails on this list for the details.
Okay, well I guess I don't have time to do that. So I guess I can assume we have plenty of free space on the DVD. So, we have have lots of free space, why don't we include KDE?
I believe I already answered your question earlier. This is a games spin and I don't think the goals filling up an entire DVD if any space is left based on your unverified assumptions to put additional desktop environments in it. A Fedora games spin is a show case for good Free software games. If users want KDE, they already have a KDE spin available.
What the hell are you talking about? You cant play the games without a desktop. Why is GNOME installed?
On 9/20/07, Christopher Stone chris.stone@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/20/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Christopher Stone wrote:
On 9/20/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Christopher Stone wrote:
On 9/20/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Yep. Check out the kickstart file I have provided and do a local spin and see what size it is.
Where was that again?
See later mails on this list for the details.
Okay, well I guess I don't have time to do that. So I guess I can assume we have plenty of free space on the DVD. So, we have have lots of free space, why don't we include KDE?
I believe I already answered your question earlier. This is a games spin and I don't think the goals filling up an entire DVD if any space is left based on your unverified assumptions to put additional desktop environments in it. A Fedora games spin is a show case for good Free software games. If users want KDE, they already have a KDE spin available.
What the hell are you talking about? You cant play the games without a desktop. Why is GNOME installed?
This is just a bunch of BS IMO. You think free space is better than allowing a user to choose between KDE and GNOME? You make up some stupid argument about this being a game spin and how game spins only have room for *your* favorite desktop. Give me a break...
Christopher Stone wrote:
I believe I already answered your question earlier. This is a games spin and I don't think the goals filling up an entire DVD if any space is left based on your unverified assumptions to put additional desktop environments in it. A Fedora games spin is a show case for good Free software games. If users want KDE, they already have a KDE spin available.
What the hell are you talking about? You cant play the games without a desktop. Why is GNOME installed?
As I said earlier I derived the games spin from the desktop spin kickstart file and that's the reason why we have GNOME.
This is just a bunch of BS IMO. You think free space is better than allowing a user to choose between KDE and GNOME?
Yes. Saves up downloading time and bandwidth is still costly/limited in many regions including where I am. In the future, we would probably include more games if we indeed have any space left. I would appreciate you take your time you spend on this arguments to do local testing of the spin, the details which I have in other threads that followed this one.
You make up some
stupid argument about this being a game spin and how game spins only have room for *your* favorite desktop. Give me a break...
A more civil tone in such discussions would be helpful. I am not interested in a desktop environment flamewar and this isn't the right forum for that and for the record I am one of the people who supported the KDE SIG in their efforts and kickstarted some discussions around forming a community around it when I was a Fedora Board member. Ask the KDE SIG folks like Rex Dieter if I am biased on that matter.
Now let's get back to the topic of games. Shall we?
Rahul
On 9/20/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Christopher Stone wrote:
I believe I already answered your question earlier. This is a games spin and I don't think the goals filling up an entire DVD if any space is left based on your unverified assumptions to put additional desktop environments in it. A Fedora games spin is a show case for good Free software games. If users want KDE, they already have a KDE spin available.
What the hell are you talking about? You cant play the games without a desktop. Why is GNOME installed?
As I said earlier I derived the games spin from the desktop spin kickstart file and that's the reason why we have GNOME.
Why not derive one from the KDE spin then? How hard can it be? I guess I will have to do it myself this weekend. How long would it take? 5 minutes? Let me know, thanks.
Christopher Stone wrote:
Why not derive one from the KDE spin then? How hard can it be? I guess I will have to do it myself this weekend. How long would it take? 5 minutes? Let me know, thanks.
You can do whatever spins you like. If you based your kickstart file on mine, it shouldn't take more than a few mins but why are you so keen on any particular desktop environment for games? It is fundamentally a unimportant detail for a games spin.
Why not concentrate of which games to include, package or review or atleast test my spin and provide me some feedback instead of spending time which you claimed you didn't have to read my other mails on seemingly redundant work.
Rahul
On 9/20/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Christopher Stone wrote:
Why not derive one from the KDE spin then? How hard can it be? I guess I will have to do it myself this weekend. How long would it take? 5 minutes? Let me know, thanks.
You can do whatever spins you like. If you based your kickstart file on mine, it shouldn't take more than a few mins but why are you so keen on any particular desktop environment for games? It is fundamentally a unimportant detail for a games spin.
Why not concentrate of which games to include, package or review or atleast test my spin and provide me some feedback instead of spending time which you claimed you didn't have to read my other mails on seemingly redundant work.
I'm curious to know how much extra space it actually takes. I would also be interested in space requirements for using xfce or even just twm.
Christopher Stone wrote:
Why not concentrate of which games to include, package or review or atleast test my spin and provide me some feedback instead of spending time which you claimed you didn't have to read my other mails on seemingly redundant work.
I'm curious to know how much extra space it actually takes. I would also be interested in space requirements for using xfce or even just twm.
While I don't think including two big desktop environments (GNOME and KDE) is a good idea (better include more games instead), using xfce has some merits, not because of disk space but because of less CPU and RAM consumption, leaving more free for games (IMO using twm as default is not good, is not user-friendly enough).
On 9/20/07, Nicu Buculei nicu_fedora@nicubunu.ro wrote:
Christopher Stone wrote:
Why not concentrate of which games to include, package or review or atleast test my spin and provide me some feedback instead of spending time which you claimed you didn't have to read my other mails on seemingly redundant work.
I'm curious to know how much extra space it actually takes. I would also be interested in space requirements for using xfce or even just twm.
While I don't think including two big desktop environments (GNOME and KDE) is a good idea (better include more games instead), using xfce has some merits, not because of disk space but because of less CPU and RAM consumption, leaving more free for games (IMO using twm as default is not good, is not user-friendly enough).
For the record, I too would be in favor of using xfce especially if it saves space. There is also the fact that no other spin has xfce as a default, so this too I think would be cool.
+1
Nicu Buculei wrote:
While I don't think including two big desktop environments (GNOME and KDE) is a good idea (better include more games instead), using xfce has some merits, not because of disk space but because of less CPU and RAM consumption, leaving more free for games (IMO using twm as default is not good, is not user-friendly enough).
I am of that opinion too but it's quite surprising that we would discussing desktop environments or window managers so much. Users who download a games spin are unlikely to care much about that as long is it's usable, attractive and familiar IMO.
Rahul
On 9/20/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Nicu Buculei wrote:
While I don't think including two big desktop environments (GNOME and KDE) is a good idea (better include more games instead), using xfce has some merits, not because of disk space but because of less CPU and RAM consumption, leaving more free for games (IMO using twm as default is not good, is not user-friendly enough).
I am of that opinion too but it's quite surprising that we would discussing desktop environments or window managers so much. Users who download a games spin are unlikely to care much about that as long is it's usable, attractive and familiar IMO.
So you are saying we should use KDE?
Christopher Stone wrote:
On 9/20/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Nicu Buculei wrote:
While I don't think including two big desktop environments (GNOME and KDE) is a good idea (better include more games instead), using xfce has some merits, not because of disk space but because of less CPU and RAM consumption, leaving more free for games (IMO using twm as default is not good, is not user-friendly enough).
I am of that opinion too but it's quite surprising that we would discussing desktop environments or window managers so much. Users who download a games spin are unlikely to care much about that as long is it's usable, attractive and familiar IMO.
So you are saying we should use KDE?
Come on Christopher Stone. Just drop this pointless argument. I have already said that I don't consider the choice of desktop environment to be very important in this instace. Your instance of discussing this in length is only serving as a distraction from useful work like testing out the spin. Please do that instead.
Rahul
On 9/20/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Christopher Stone wrote:
On 9/20/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Nicu Buculei wrote:
While I don't think including two big desktop environments (GNOME and KDE) is a good idea (better include more games instead), using xfce has some merits, not because of disk space but because of less CPU and RAM consumption, leaving more free for games (IMO using twm as default is not good, is not user-friendly enough).
I am of that opinion too but it's quite surprising that we would discussing desktop environments or window managers so much. Users who download a games spin are unlikely to care much about that as long is it's usable, attractive and familiar IMO.
So you are saying we should use KDE?
Come on Christopher Stone. Just drop this pointless argument. I have already said that I don't consider the choice of desktop environment to be very important in this instace. Your instance of discussing this in length is only serving as a distraction from useful work like testing out the spin. Please do that instead.
I would rather test out a KDE or Xfce spin. If I can find the time this weekend I might try making a kickstart file for an Xfce version and test that, and try to get space requirements on the different desktop configurations.
On 9/20/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Christopher Stone wrote:
On 9/20/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Nicu Buculei wrote:
While I don't think including two big desktop environments (GNOME
and
KDE) is a good idea (better include more games instead), using xfce
has
some merits, not because of disk space but because of less CPU and
RAM
consumption, leaving more free for games (IMO using twm as default
is
not good, is not user-friendly enough).
I am of that opinion too but it's quite surprising that we would discussing desktop environments or window managers so much. Users who download a games spin are unlikely to care much about that as long is it's usable, attractive and familiar IMO.
So you are saying we should use KDE?
Come on Christopher Stone. Just drop this pointless argument. I have already said that I don't consider the choice of desktop environment to be very important in this instace. Your instance of discussing this in length is only serving as a distraction from useful work like testing out the spin. Please do that instead.
I would rather test out a KDE or Xfce spin. If I can find the time this weekend I might try making a kickstart file for an Xfce version and test that, and try to get space requirements on the different desktop configurations.
Personally, I think XFCE and Gnome would be my preferences, in that order. XFCE because it's light (although we'd probably have gnome and kde libs installed anyway for several games) and Gnome because it's the default for Fedora and what Joe Sixpack will expect if he's used a vanilla spin.
Nothing against KDE, just seems simpler this way. In fact, given the library deps, just using Gnome and not installing XFCE might be lighter still. I agree with Rahul, we should be focusing on the games, despite our personal preferences. For example, I maintain nexuiz, even though I SUCK at it. :)
Fedora-games-list mailing list Fedora-games-list@redhat.com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-games-list
1. On Fri, 2007-09-21 at 11:53 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Christopher Stone wrote:
On 9/20/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Nicu Buculei wrote:
While I don't think including two big desktop environments (GNOME and KDE) is a good idea (better include more games instead), using xfce has some merits, not because of disk space but because of less CPU and RAM consumption, leaving more free for games (IMO using twm as default is not good, is not user-friendly enough).
I am of that opinion too but it's quite surprising that we would discussing desktop environments or window managers so much. Users who download a games spin are unlikely to care much about that as long is it's usable, attractive and familiar IMO.
So you are saying we should use KDE?
Come on Christopher Stone. Just drop this pointless argument. I have already said that I don't consider the choice of desktop environment to be very important in this instace. Your instance of discussing this in length is only serving as a distraction from useful work like testing out the spin. Please do that instead.
I agree, I already have both Gnome and KDE installed, so I'd hate to waste the bandwidth sucking down something already installed. I haven't seen much of any kind of program that didn't work under both. I'd leave it as an exercise for the user to decide what he wants to run as his games desktop. I'm running Croquet (which is practically another OS) on a KDE desktop and with plenty of CPU and memory, no sweat. My older Pentium 4 would gag. So, I'd cure it with xfce. My choice, and I'd make it for me and my needs. That's the Linux way. Keep the spin simply games. Ric
<snip>
Rahul, Chris, or Chris, Rahul,
Can you please continue your little flamewar in private please?
Regards,
Hans
On 9/21/07, Hans de Goede j.w.r.degoede@hhs.nl wrote:
<snip>
Rahul, Chris, or Chris, Rahul,
Can you please continue your little flamewar in private please?
What flame war?
No.
-
Christopher Stone -
Hans de Goede -
Jeroen van Meeuwen -
Jon Ciesla -
Michael Thomas -
Nicu Buculei -
Rahul Sundaram -
Ric Moore