On Wed, 2008-01-16 at 21:50 +0100, Hans de Goede wrote:
Matthew Miller wrote:
On Wed, Jan 16, 2008 at 02:46:02PM -0500, Tom spot Callaway wrote:
Due to patent concerns, we won't be able to include any games in Fedora which meet the following criteria: A game where "targets" move across the screen to a predetermined point or line, where the player hits a button/key/mouse click as the target(s) crosses that point or line, and gets points.
Seriously? I wrote an AppleBasic game in fourth grade (1984) that did that.
I hear you, some smartass behind DDR though so game mechanics can't be copyrighted, lets patent them.
Cheesh.
Maybe its an idea to petition pubpat: http://www.pubpat.org/ to fight this? I know they have much bigger (and much more important) fish to catch, but this seems trivially easy to overthrow.
If you're motivated to find the prior art, feel free.
From the top of my head, Moon Buggy. If you haven't seen it, here's a
quick description: You can see the left side of a (moon) buggy on the right side of the screen and a (moon) surface underneath with pits in it that moves from left to right. You control the buggy and have to jump over the holes (you can't move left or right, you can just jump). So: you have "targets" (pits) that move across the screen and you have a predetermined point (buggy) where you have to press a button, so a fine piece of prior art if you ask me. It's not very old (Version 1 was released in 2004), but it has some ancestry: it's based on a 1982 game "Moon Patrol" which, based on screenshots, seems to be quite similar.
Johannes
On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 14:15 +0200, Johannes wrote:
From the top of my head, Moon Buggy. If you haven't seen it, here's a
quick description: You can see the left side of a (moon) buggy on the right side of the screen and a (moon) surface underneath with pits in it that moves from left to right. You control the buggy and have to jump over the holes (you can't move left or right, you can just jump). So: you have "targets" (pits) that move across the screen and you have a predetermined point (buggy) where you have to press a button, so a fine piece of prior art if you ask me. It's not very old (Version 1 was released in 2004), but it has some ancestry: it's based on a 1982 game "Moon Patrol" which, based on screenshots, seems to be quite similar.
I don't think that is sufficient. The patent is pretty clear about the way to score points is for the player to hit a button to match the linear moving target when it crosses the point in space. "Jumping" or "Shooting" doesn't count.
~spot
On Jan 17, 2008 3:11 PM, Tom "spot" Callaway wrote:
I don't think that is sufficient. The patent is pretty clear about the way to score points is for the player to hit a button to match the linear moving target when it crosses the point in space. "Jumping" or "Shooting" doesn't count.
I suppose you might be right. I have another idea, but can you first tell us when and to whom was the patent issued?
Johannes
I appreciate the concern over patents here, but at the same time I'm pretty sure that the Linux kernel infringes on a whole bunch of patents - when are you going to remove that?
I'm serious.
- C
On Jan 17, 2008 2:48 PM, Johannes Dahl muusik@gmail.com wrote:
I suppose you might be right. I have another idea, but can you first tell us when and to whom was the patent issued?
My rather facetious point is that there is a whole bunch of unenforceable patents out there in what is a rather rubbish system that it's dire need of reform.
It's ridiculous that you can patent a gameplay style. In any other western country that patent would not be granted.
Not abusing trademarks is one thing, but being forced to tip toe around issues like incredulous patents is a slap in the face. So, only that company is allowed to make that type of game, a style that's been around for decades before them?
I can understand Red Hat's corporate stance, but surely there's a moral one here to and just caving in to a bit of legal strong arming is not setting out what Red Hat is about, a company that has traditionally operated on strong moral principles.
- C
On Jan 17, 2008 3:10 PM, Free Gamer freegamerblog@gmail.com wrote:
I appreciate the concern over patents here, but at the same time I'm pretty sure that the Linux kernel infringes on a whole bunch of patents - when are you going to remove that?
I'm serious.
- C
On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 15:17 +0000, Free Gamer wrote:
It's ridiculous that you can patent a gameplay style. In any other western country that patent would not be granted.
Not abusing trademarks is one thing, but being forced to tip toe around issues like incredulous patents is a slap in the face. So, only that company is allowed to make that type of game, a style that's been around for decades before them?
Yes, I agree, it is ridiculous. However, these are the times in which we live, and Red Hat has decided to not take a risk around this patent set.
The owner of this particular patent is aggressively licensing it to other people, so they see a huge value in it, and would likely go out of their way to defend its use (especially against an entity with plenty of money in the bank).
~spot
On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 15:17 +0000, Free Gamer wrote:
I can understand Red Hat's corporate stance, but surely there's a moral one here to and just caving in to a bit of legal strong arming is not setting out what Red Hat is about, a company that has traditionally operated on strong moral principles.
One of those "strong moral principles" is:
- Don't infringe on other people's patents, no matter how ludicrous.
When Fedora is made aware of patents that we may be infringing upon, we act on that, with the aid of legal counsel. This is the decision that our patent lawyers have given us.
The only recourse available is to find prior art and make a case to the US Patent Office, to try to have the patent invalidated.
~spot
On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 15:10 +0000, Free Gamer wrote:
I appreciate the concern over patents here, but at the same time I'm pretty sure that the Linux kernel infringes on a whole bunch of patents - when are you going to remove that?
I'm serious.
Pretty sure doesn't cut it. If you have specific patent concerns around the Linux kernel, feel free to contact me offlist.
~spot
On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 16:48 +0200, Johannes Dahl wrote:
On Jan 17, 2008 3:11 PM, Tom "spot" Callaway wrote:
I don't think that is sufficient. The patent is pretty clear about the way to score points is for the player to hit a button to match the linear moving target when it crosses the point in space. "Jumping" or "Shooting" doesn't count.
I suppose you might be right. I have another idea, but can you first tell us when and to whom was the patent issued?
I'll be explicit:
Read this: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16014
The primary patent of concern is US 6347998, held by Konami.
In addition, Harmonix seems to hold patents directly related: http://www.patentstorm.us/assignees/Harmonix_Music_Systems,_Inc_-88927-1.htm...
Good luck.
~spot
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Free Gamer -
Johannes Dahl -
Tom Callaway