Games submenus

[Christopher Stone]

A few months ago I tried out GNOME to see if it has made any
improvements, and one thing I noticed is that the Games menu does not
have any submenus.  As someone who installs every game available, this
made the menu quite unorganized.  KDE has several submenus under games
such as Arcade, Card Games, Kids Games, Strategy etc.

I am wondering if it is possible to define some sub-categories we can
use for games to help clean up the games menu?  Does GNOME support
these submenus?  And is it possible to define our own set of submenus
for the Games menu?  I think that since there are going to be many
more games added over the coming months and years it would be prudent
to implement some standards for this if possible as the Games menu is
already quite large, especially in GNOME.

[Hans de Goede]

Christopher Stone wrote:
> A few months ago I tried out GNOME to see if it has made any
> improvements, and one thing I noticed is that the Games menu does not
> have any submenus.  As someone who installs every game available, this
> made the menu quite unorganized.  KDE has several submenus under games
> such as Arcade, Card Games, Kids Games, Strategy etc.
>
> I am wondering if it is possible to define some sub-categories we can
> use for games to help clean up the games menu?  Does GNOME support
> these submenus?  And is it possible to define our own set of submenus
> for the Games menu?  I think that since there are going to be many
> more games added over the coming months and years it would be prudent
> to implement some standards for this if possible as the Games menu is
> already quite large, especially in GNOME.

Yes, the Games menu under GNOME is getting really full. Another off
topic but related question. Their is an official list of all official
categories which can be used in a .desktop file at:
http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html

According to this their is a separate category Education in which
educational programs like gcompris and childsplay (review request
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=190876 any takers?)
could be put I've tried adding Education as a category to childplays
.desktop file. Under gnome this adds a new entry to the main
applications menu called Education between Applications and Games to
which childsplay is added, childsplay also stays available under the
Games menu.

what do you think of using the Education category, on one hand I like
the idea of having Education software separate from normal games and
easy accessible through the main software menu otoh I think that adding
a new main software menu entry for a handful of programs is a bit overkill.

Opinions?

Regards,

Hans

[Nicu Buculei]

Christopher Stone wrote:
> I am wondering if it is possible to define some sub-categories we can
> use for games to help clean up the games menu?  Does GNOME support
> these submenus?  And is it possible to define our own set of submenus
> for the Games menu?  I think that since there are going to be many
> more games added over the coming months and years it would be prudent
> to implement some standards for this if possible as the Games menu is
> already quite large, especially in GNOME.

Good question. For sometime I want to submit myself (but I keep not 
remembering about it at the right time) a RFE to prboom to have a 
submenu with two item: one for safe mode and another for the OpenGL version.

[Michael Thomas]

Christopher Stone wrote:
> A few months ago I tried out GNOME to see if it has made any
> improvements, and one thing I noticed is that the Games menu does not
> have any submenus.  As someone who installs every game available, this
> made the menu quite unorganized.  KDE has several submenus under games
> such as Arcade, Card Games, Kids Games, Strategy etc.
>
> I am wondering if it is possible to define some sub-categories we can
> use for games to help clean up the games menu?  Does GNOME support
> these submenus?  And is it possible to define our own set of submenus
> for the Games menu?  I think that since there are going to be many
> more games added over the coming months and years it would be prudent
> to implement some standards for this if possible as the Games menu is
> already quite large, especially in GNOME.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe the menus are built from the Category
settings in the .desktop files.  I wonder if there's a way to get
submenus created for the various categories of games:  ArcadeGame,
StrategyGame, PuzzleGame, 3DGame, etc.

I agree that having a Games menu so large that it can't be fully
rendered on a 1600x1200 display is a little annoying.  :)

--Mike

[Jason L Tibbitts III]

> > > > > "MT" == Michael Thomas  writes:

MT> If I'm not mistaken, I believe the menus are built from the
MT> Category settings in the .desktop files.  I wonder if there's a
MT> way to get submenus created for the various categories of games:
MT> ArcadeGame, StrategyGame, PuzzleGame, 3DGame, etc.

My current (kde) desktop has "Arcade", "Board Games" and "Card
Games".  A random example, "Nibbles" is a board game;
/usr/share/applications/gnome-gnibbles.desktop contains:

Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;ArcadeGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;

and the icon lives in the "Arcade" submenu.  So I think this is
already set up.  In fact, looking through all .desktop files gives:

hippogriff:/usr/share/applications> grep -i Categories *|grep -i game
gnome-blackjack.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;CardGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
gnome-freecell.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;CardGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
gnome-gataxx.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;BoardGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
gnome-glines.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;LogicGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
gnome-gnect.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;LogicGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
gnome-gnibbles.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;ArcadeGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
gnome-gnobots2.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;ArcadeGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
gnome-gnomine.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;LogicGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
gnome-gnotravex.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;LogicGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
gnome-gnotski.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;LogicGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
gnome-gtali.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;X-Red-Hat-Base;
gnome-iagno.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;X-Red-Hat-Base;
gnome-mahjongg.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;BoardGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
gnome-same-gnome.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;LogicGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
gnome-sol.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;CardGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;

So it looks like these categories have already been decided upon but
things haven't been completely implemented in the desktop
environments.  (For example, KDE doesn't have a submenu for
"LogicGame".)

- J<

[Michael Thomas]

Jason L Tibbitts III wrote:
> > > > > > "MT" == Michael Thomas  writes:
>
> MT> If I'm not mistaken, I believe the menus are built from the
> MT> Category settings in the .desktop files.  I wonder if there's a
> MT> way to get submenus created for the various categories of games:
> MT> ArcadeGame, StrategyGame, PuzzleGame, 3DGame, etc.
>
> My current (kde) desktop has "Arcade", "Board Games" and "Card
> Games".  A random example, "Nibbles" is a board game;
> /usr/share/applications/gnome-gnibbles.desktop contains:
>
> Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;ArcadeGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
>
> and the icon lives in the "Arcade" submenu.  So I think this is
> already set up.  In fact, looking through all .desktop files gives:
>
> hippogriff:/usr/share/applications> grep -i Categories *|grep -i game
> gnome-blackjack.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;CardGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> gnome-freecell.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;CardGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> gnome-gataxx.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;BoardGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> gnome-glines.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;LogicGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> gnome-gnect.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;LogicGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> gnome-gnibbles.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;ArcadeGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> gnome-gnobots2.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;ArcadeGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> gnome-gnomine.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;LogicGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> gnome-gnotravex.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;LogicGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> gnome-gnotski.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;LogicGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> gnome-gtali.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> gnome-iagno.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> gnome-mahjongg.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;BoardGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> gnome-same-gnome.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;LogicGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> gnome-sol.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;CardGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
>
> So it looks like these categories have already been decided upon but
> things haven't been completely implemented in the desktop
> environments.  (For example, KDE doesn't have a submenu for
> "LogicGame".)

The accepted list of categories can be found at
http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html, as Hans
previously pointed out.  And as you found, many games already include
some of these subcategories.  Unfortunately, Gnome doesn't seem to use
the subcategories for Games to create submenus in the panel.

Is there a gnome desktop hacker on the list who can figure out what
needs to be done to generate these submenus?

--Mike

[Jason L Tibbitts III]

> > > > > "MT" == Michael Thomas  writes:

MT> Is there a gnome desktop hacker on the list who can figure out
MT> what needs to be done to generate these submenus?

Oddly enough, it shouldn't be a gnome thing; the menu description is a
standard.  http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/

However, it looks like some kde-specific setup is being done.  Look in
/etc/xdg/menus; compare applications.menu with kde-applications.menu.

- J<

[Hans de Goede]

Michael Thomas wrote:
> Jason L Tibbitts III wrote:
> > > > > > > "MT" == Michael Thomas  writes:
> >
> > MT> If I'm not mistaken, I believe the menus are built from the
> > MT> Category settings in the .desktop files.  I wonder if there's a
> > MT> way to get submenus created for the various categories of games:
> > MT> ArcadeGame, StrategyGame, PuzzleGame, 3DGame, etc.
> >
> > My current (kde) desktop has "Arcade", "Board Games" and "Card
> > Games".  A random example, "Nibbles" is a board game;
> > /usr/share/applications/gnome-gnibbles.desktop contains:
> >
> > Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;ArcadeGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> >
> > and the icon lives in the "Arcade" submenu.  So I think this is
> > already set up.  In fact, looking through all .desktop files gives:
> >
> > hippogriff:/usr/share/applications> grep -i Categories *|grep -i game
> > gnome-blackjack.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;CardGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> > gnome-freecell.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;CardGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> > gnome-gataxx.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;BoardGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> > gnome-glines.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;LogicGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> > gnome-gnect.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;LogicGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> > gnome-gnibbles.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;ArcadeGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> > gnome-gnobots2.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;ArcadeGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> > gnome-gnomine.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;LogicGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> > gnome-gnotravex.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;LogicGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> > gnome-gnotski.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;LogicGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> > gnome-gtali.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> > gnome-iagno.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> > gnome-mahjongg.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;BoardGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> > gnome-same-gnome.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;LogicGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> > gnome-sol.desktop:Categories=GNOME;GTK;Game;CardGame;X-Red-Hat-Base;
> >
> > So it looks like these categories have already been decided upon but
> > things haven't been completely implemented in the desktop
> > environments.  (For example, KDE doesn't have a submenu for
> > "LogicGame".)
>
> The accepted list of categories can be found at
> http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html, as Hans
> previously pointed out.  And as you found, many games already include
> some of these subcategories.  Unfortunately, Gnome doesn't seem to use
> the subcategories for Games to create submenus in the panel.
>
> Is there a gnome desktop hacker on the list who can figure out what
> needs to be done to generate these submenus?

We indeed need the assistence / opinion of a gnome hacker, maybe its a
good idea to post this to the fedora-devel list?

Regards,

Hans

[Nicu Buculei]

Hans de Goede wrote:
> We indeed need the assistence / opinion of a gnome hacker, maybe its a
> good idea to post this to the fedora-devel list?

Or fedora-desktop-list