[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] New: Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
6:58 a.m.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
Bug ID: 1005780
Summary: Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification
needed for "l" Character
Product: Fedora
Version: 19
Component: liberation-fonts
Severity: low
Assignee: psatpute(a)redhat.com
Reporter: wrkerr(a)gmail.com
QA Contact: extras-qa(a)fedoraproject.org
CC: fonts-bugs(a)lists.fedoraproject.org,
i18n-bugs(a)lists.fedoraproject.org,
petersen(a)redhat.com, psatpute(a)redhat.com
Description of problem:
Lowercase "l" character very closely resembles the "1" character from
many
other typefaces, especially at smaller point sizes, and even more so in the
italic style.
Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable):
2.00.1
How reproducible:
Type an italic "l" at 8 point size. Print alongside "1" also at 8
point size
from some other monospaced fonts, such as DejaVu Sans Mono and notice the
similarity.
Additional info:
I have found Liberation Mono to be the best Free typeface for my coding
purposes. I particularly love how readable yet compact it is at small sizes.
I've had difficultly though with the "l" character. I find that this
character
seems to me to be indistinguishable from the "1" character from many other
typefaces. The problem is even more apparent when the font is used in the
italic style. To my perception, an "l" formed more similar to that of the
DejaVu Sans Mono, Source Code Pro, or Ubuntu Mono would fit better with the
overall design approach of the typeface by being clearly readable at all
sizes--it could no longer be confused with any other character. This would
include a leftward serif at the top of the letter, and a rightward curvature at
the bottom of the character. To my eye, DejaVu Sans Mono's "l" would be the
best model.
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3:50 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
--- Comment #1 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> ---
Created attachment 796295
--> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=796295&action=edit
screenshot of comparison between dejavu mono and liberation mono l character
Thanks for appreciation for Liberation. After looking at the attached
screenshot i am agree with you for confusion at lower size between 1 and l.
Looks like Dejavu has taken extra care while designing l shape. I will try for
that in next version.
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7:31 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
--- Comment #2 from wrkerr(a)gmail.com ---
(In reply to Pravin Satpute from comment #1)
Created attachment 796295 [details]
screenshot of comparison between dejavu mono and liberation mono l character
Thanks for appreciation for Liberation. After looking at the attached
screenshot i am agree with you for confusion at lower size between 1 and l.
Looks like Dejavu has taken extra care while designing l shape. I will try
for that in next version.
Thank you so much! I look forward to seeing it.
Is there a schedule for the next release?
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9:20 p.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
Lijun Li <lijli(a)redhat.com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keywords| |i18n
CC| |lijli(a)redhat.com
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7:16 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Status|NEW |ASSIGNED
--- Comment #3 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> ---
I will do this it by this month end.
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2:51 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
--- Comment #4 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> ---
We can definitely fix this but i am more concerned regarding if we update shape
we will lose the bytecode hinting instruction for this shape.
Though i can instruct fontforge for autohinting this but still it does not give
100% accurate behaviour.
So may be we can try this out but if some bugs came up, we can simply restore
original shape or try to fix hinting instructions.
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3:51 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
--- Comment #5 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> ---
Created attachment 831954
--> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=831954&action=edit
working image of "l" shape
Does this looks good? Minimal approach to resolve confusion :)
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7:49 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
--- Comment #6 from wrkerr(a)gmail.com ---
It certainly is less confusing and I would consider it an improvement, though a
rounded curvature at the bottom would be still better in my mind. Rounding the
bottom would make it more recognizable as a lowercase "l". Your working image
could possibly be confused as a capital "L".
I've attached an image of how things currently look in DejaVu Sans Mono, Source
Code Pro, Ubuntu Mono, and Liberation Mono. An "l" shaped like one of the first
three would be ideal to my perception, though admittedly I don't fully
understand all of the technical implications of adopting such a design.
Thanks!
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7:50 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
--- Comment #7 from wrkerr(a)gmail.com ---
Created attachment 832085
--> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=832085&action=edit
Comparison of "l" in text
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11:52 p.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
--- Comment #8 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> ---
Yes agree, round shape at bottom required to avoid confusion with capital "L"
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8:28 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
--- Comment #9 from wrkerr(a)gmail.com ---
Is a fix for this still being considered for inclusion in the next release, and
is there any timeframe in mind for this?
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11:33 p.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
--- Comment #10 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> ---
Problem here is, if we modify this shape we will lost the hinting instruction
for this shape.
Definitely same time we can do auto hinting but it will not give as sharp
outline as given by present hinting instruction.
Will do one thing, i will modify and provide test file, please test those and
update me on same.
will do it this week.
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2:05 p.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
--- Comment #11 from wrkerr(a)gmail.com ---
I would be love to see an updated file when it's available and would be happy
to give feedback.
Thank you!
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12:47 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
LiberationLove <anton(a)mt2014.com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC| |anton(a)mt2014.com
--- Comment #12 from LiberationLove <anton(a)mt2014.com> ---
Can I download update somewhere? Bug with 1 VS l is blocking for me.
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1:06 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
--- Comment #13 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> ---
Hi,
Nice username :)
Just give me one week. i am working on fixing #1072095, hoping to fix this
bug as well with it.
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12:25 p.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
--- Comment #14 from wrkerr(a)gmail.com ---
Is there a status update on this?
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12:14 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
--- Comment #15 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> ---
Not yet..looking forward to complete it this month.
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5:51 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
Spiderhunter <OneTwo(a)mt2014.com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC| |OneTwo(a)mt2014.com
--- Comment #16 from Spiderhunter <OneTwo(a)mt2014.com> ---
No updates? Any problems?
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5:55 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
--- Comment #17 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> ---
I am working on liberation fonts from last 2 weeks, soon will touch this issue.
In between Liberation fonts version 2 also available on github now
https://github.com/pravins/liberation-fonts
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5:40 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
--- Comment #18 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> ---
first of all apologies for taking so much time for this.
I have updated 'l' shape in mono all relevant files are available @
http://pravins.fedorapeople.org/liberation-mono/
Please test .ttf and update me whether any issue or more required.
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8:08 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
--- Comment #19 from Reed Kerr <wrkerr(a)gmail.com> ---
I love the new shape! Thank you so much.
It does seem to render oddly at the 12 point size on my system. I'm attaching a
screenshot of how it's rendering at 11, 12, and 13 sizes. the leftward serif at
the top seems unproportionally wide at 12, though the other sizes seem fine.
I took the screenshot in MS Word, but I've confirmed that it does the same in
other applications on my system as well. Is that a problem on my system, or
something in the font file?
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8:10 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
--- Comment #20 from Reed Kerr <wrkerr(a)gmail.com> ---
Created attachment 895130
--> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=895130&action=edit
Showing new character at 11, 12, and 13
Notice the width of the leftward serif at the top of the character at 12. It
does not appear proportional to the 11 and 13 sizes. This screenshot was taken
in MS Word 2013 on Windows 7.
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8:28 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
--- Comment #21 from Reed Kerr <wrkerr(a)gmail.com> ---
Created attachment 895135
--> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=895135&action=edit
Showing new character at various sizes
This screenshot was taken on the same Windows 7 system in LibreOffice Writer
4.2.2.1. It shows the 'l' character at all the common sizes, and highlights the
inconsistencies in the leftward serif at the top of the character.
12, 14 and 15 seem unusually wide, while 13, 16 and 18 seem significantly more
narrow. As I noted if my earlier comment though, the 12 size seems the most
problematic to my perception.
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12:25 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
--- Comment #22 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> ---
I was waiting to fix this issue before next upstream release. Just update to
shape will not work, we need to add correct hinting instructions as well to fix
this.
I will do next release with other fix and keep this pending for next one.
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4:17 p.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
--- Comment #23 from Fedora End Of Life <endoflife(a)fedoraproject.org> ---
This message is a notice that Fedora 19 is now at end of life. Fedora
has stopped maintaining and issuing updates for Fedora 19. It is
Fedora's policy to close all bug reports from releases that are no
longer maintained. Approximately 4 (four) weeks from now this bug will
be closed as EOL if it remains open with a Fedora 'version' of '19'.
Package Maintainer: If you wish for this bug to remain open because you
plan to fix it in a currently maintained version, simply change the 'version'
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Although we aim to fix as many bugs as possible during every release's
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5:26 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 1005780] Liberation Sans Mono Enhancement Request: Modification needed for "l" Character
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005780
Fedora End Of Life <endoflife(a)fedoraproject.org> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Status|ASSIGNED |CLOSED
Resolution|--- |EOL
Last Closed| |2015-02-18 06:26:34
--- Comment #24 from Fedora End Of Life <endoflife(a)fedoraproject.org> ---
Fedora 19 changed to end-of-life (EOL) status on 2015-01-06. Fedora 19 is
no longer maintained, which means that it will not receive any further
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If you can reproduce this bug against a currently maintained version of
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