10:49 p.m.
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Summary: [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other locales
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=514110
Summary: [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other
locales
Product: Fedora
Version: rawhide
Platform: All
OS/Version: Linux
Status: NEW
Severity: medium
Priority: low
Component: glibc
AssignedTo: schwab(a)redhat.com
ReportedBy: psatpute(a)redhat.com
QAContact: extras-qa(a)fedoraproject.org
CC: jakub(a)redhat.com, santhosh.thottingal(a)gmail.com,
fedora-i18n-bugs(a)redhat.com, schwab(a)redhat.com
Estimated Hours: 0.0
Classification: Fedora
Target Release: ---
Description of problem:
ta_IN collation rules are not working, when we select other locale say
en_US.UTF-8
Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable):
glibc-common-2.10.90-7.1
How reproducible:
every time
Steps to Reproduce:
1. select en_US locale
2. try to sort Tamil characters
3.
Actual results:
sorting is not working
Expected results:
It should be sorted as per collation rule
Additional info:
This is happening due to ta_IN collation rules written in ta_IN locale file,
and these rules are not available to outside locale.
We should move these collation table to iso14651_t1_common(common to most of
the locale), so it will be available to other locale as well and tamil sorting
will work while selecting any locale
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5:26 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 514110] [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other locales
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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=514110
--- Comment #1 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> 2009-08-21 06:26:29 EDT
---
some discussion happened on mail already, thanks to santhosh for preparing
patch to move ta_IN collation rules to iso14651_t1_common file
/me corrected syntax errors as well tested with some test data
please test it will some more tamil data so we can make some correction before
moving to glibc
steps for testing
1) download Tamil_Collation folder from
http://pravins.fedorapeople.org/Tamil_Collation
2) cd Tamil_Collation
3) append some more rule in test file
4) LOCPATH=$PWD LC_ALL=ta_TT sort ../test > test_result
5) gedit test_result
please add test file as well result in bugzilla
if its correct i will proceed with patch
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5:28 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 514110] [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other locales
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Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
AssignedTo|schwab(a)redhat.com |psatpute(a)redhat.com
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1:10 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 514110] [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other locales
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--- Comment #2 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> 2009-10-24 02:10:27 EDT
---
it will be nice if some tamil person can test this patch once, so we can
proceed.
its two month now its in bugzilla
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1:10 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 514110] [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other locales
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Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> changed:
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flag| |needinfo?(ifelix(a)redhat.com
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4:18 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 514110] [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other locales
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Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> changed:
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Version|12 |rawhide
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5:11 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 514110] [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other locales
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--- Comment #4 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> 2009-12-28 06:11:23 EDT
---
Created an attachment (id=380616)
--> (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=380616)
sorting i am getting with my present patch
had a discussion with Felix, we need order like
க்
க
கா
கி
working on same
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5:16 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 514110] [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other locales
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Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Attachment #380616|0 |1
is obsolete| |
--- Comment #5 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> 2010-01-20 06:16:48 EST
---
Created an attachment (id=385655)
--> (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=385655)
This is present sorting order i am getting with my patch
please check whether this is proper order,
if yes i will prepare patch for glibc, else we can correct same
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5:50 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 514110] [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other locales
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--- Comment #6 from Felix <ifelix(a)redhat.com> 2010-01-20 06:50:06 EST ---
This is the correct order. You can go ahead.
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5:57 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 514110] [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other locales
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Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> changed:
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Status|NEW |ASSIGNED
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6:21 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 514110] [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other locales
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--- Comment #7 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> 2010-01-20 07:21:32 EST
---
Created an attachment (id=385662)
--> (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=385662)
patch for enhancing tamil collation
Thanks felix for confirmation
above patch will move tamil collation rules from ta_IN to iso_common file
it has some enhancement as well as compared to previous collation rules
* handled pure consonant properly
* now collation will be in iso_common file, so one can see sorted tamil
characters. menus in any locale
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5:32 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 514110] [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other locales
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--- Comment #8 from Ulrich Drepper <drepper(a)redhat.com> 2010-02-03 06:32:30 EST ---
Applied upstream.
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12:07 p.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 514110] [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other locales
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--- Comment #9 from K. Sethu <skhome(a)gmail.com> 2010-02-04 13:07:34 EST ---
Pravin
Excuse me for participating rather late. My apologies.
In the attachment to your comment above in # Comment 5, I see the following
[..]
ஃ
க்
க
கடந்த
கா
காலையில்
கி
கீ
கு
கூ
கெ
கே
கேஎஸ்
கேஎஸ்ரவிக்குமார்
கை
கொ
கோ
கௌ
க்க
க்கௗ
க்ங
ங்
ங
[..]
To be correct க்க, க்கள, க்ங in the above should be in between க் and க and
not as indicated above in which they are shown to be between கௌ and ங்
For example if we sort { அ, அக், அகம் அக்கம் அக்கு, அகால } to be in ascending
order, then the correct result should be {அ, அக், அக்கம், அக்கு, அகம், அகால }
(அக் in above is of course a meaningless word - but for making a sorting order
that has no bearing)
The above sorting order from your attachment suggests it will sort to
{அ,அக்,அகம், அகால, அக்கம், அக்கு } which is wrong.
Compare with English alphabets in ascending order:
a,b,c,d,e,f,.....x,y,z
Now ask where should be aa, ab, ac, ad, ....,az be ? Obviously they are between
a and b - like a,aa,ab,ac,ad,...,ax,ay,az,b,c,d,e... Right?
Well similarly க் followed by any letter should be somewhere in between க் and
க. i.e., if க் is followed by a character, sort order is as follows:
க் < க்அ < க்ஆ < க்இ < க்ஈ < ..........க்ஒ < க்ஓ < க்ஔ < க்ஃ <
க்க் < க்க <
க்கா < க்கி ............< க்கொ < க்கோ < க்கௌ < க்ங் < க்ங < க்ஙா
........
(Wherever I indicate ....... they are to mean "and so on")
In English sorting of words, if two words have same first letter then they are
next to each other and their relative placement is determined by second letter
in each - if they are also same then by the 3rd letter, and ad-nauseum .
Essentially first sort on first letter, then wherever necessary on second
letter and so on but for each of those sorting the order of sorting used is
same. So the increasing order (or weight-ages) of characters is like a one
dimensional vector set - the repeated application of which wherever needed in a
collating of words.
The principle is same for Tamil too but there are some differences. In case of
English in Unicode each character is represented by a single code point.
But in case of Tamil, I presume, the following differences could make
collation algorithm conceptualisation to some degree more complex:
i) Canonical Decompositions - in each case of ஔ (0B94), ொ (0BCA), ோ (0BCB), ௌ
(0BCC), the NFC and the NFD forms should have equality.
ii) Grantha ligatures SHRII , KSHA as well as KSHA+Virama - each of these of
course are not represented by single code point but of 3 or 4 code point
sequence.
iii) While the 11 vowel modifiers from ா (0BBE) to ௌ (0BCC) can be placed as
singletons in ascending order (with provision for the canonical decompositions
of the last 3 - 0BCA, 0BCB and 0BCC being made equal to each of their composed
form) in case of Pulli (i.e., Virama) - 0BCD) it has to be placed along with
each base consonant immediately preceding corresponding based consonant - i.e.,
க் (0B95 0BCD) preceding க (0B95) and similarly for each base consonant.
Hope I my observations so far are clear and correct ; if not I would like to
know where I am wrong. I will write more after seeing responses
K. Sethu
(11:30 PM , Colombo-Sri Lanka)
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3:10 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 514110] [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other locales
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--- Comment #10 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> 2010-02-05 04:09:05 EST
---
no props things happens,
it will be nice if you can attach standard sorting list as per exception and
some reference for that as well
may be in next cycle we can fix that
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5:57 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 514110] [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other locales
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--- Comment #12 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> 2010-07-22 06:57:17 EDT
---
can you attach sort order you are expecting?
i am clear that you want same sort order, we are following presently for
Malayalam
i.e cons + virama, should get sorted before cons
cons+virama
cons
please check present malayalam sorting as well
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5:07 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 514110] [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other locales
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Parag <pnemade(a)redhat.com> changed:
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4:31 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 514110] [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other locales
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Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> changed:
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| |al(a)gmail.com)
--- Comment #13 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> 2011-02-24 05:31:22 EST
---
santhosh,
can you provide patch for this? it looks same like you did for malayalam
let me know
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6:46 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 514110] [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other locales
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Santhosh Thottingal <santhosh.thottingal(a)gmail.com> changed:
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--- Comment #14 from Santhosh Thottingal <santhosh.thottingal(a)gmail.com> 2011-02-26
07:46:49 EST ---
Pravin,
I think we need a consensus from the Tamil speakers here. I have explained my
patch here: http://thottingal.in/blog/2011/02/26/tamil-collation-in-glibc/ If
we get a clear definition, I would be happy to prepare the patch.
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12:59 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 514110] [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other locales
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--- Comment #15 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> 2011-02-28 01:59:21 EST
---
Thanks Santhosh!!
Yeah, taking some more comment from community is better before preparing patch
K. Sethu, you there?
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3:26 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 514110] [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other locales
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K. Sethu <skhome(a)gmail.com> changed:
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--- Comment #16 from K. Sethu <skhome(a)gmail.com> 2011-02-28 04:26:32 EST ---
Pravin
Yes I am alive ;>)
Just posted posted some comments on standards to Santosh's blog (gone to his
moderation), but will write soon my opinions on the issues due from the rules
designed to align with phonetic (or is it phonemic) decomposition of
consonant+vowel syllables.
Till then
Regards
K. Sethu
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1:14 p.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 514110] [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other locales
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--- Comment #17 from Fedora Admin XMLRPC Client <fedora-admin-xmlrpc(a)redhat.com>
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This package has changed ownership in the Fedora Package Database. Reassigning
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This package has changed ownership in the Fedora Package Database. Reassigning
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2:05 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 514110] [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other locales
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12:10 p.m.
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9:35 p.m.
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2:34 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 514110] [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other locales
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--- Comment #19 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> 2012-01-31 03:34:20 EST
---
Hi K. Sethu,
any update on this?
sorting is bit tricky thing, so getting consensus from all might be
difficult. At least we should stick to one standard.
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12:11 a.m.
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--- Comment #20 from Jeff Law <law(a)redhat.com> 2012-02-10 01:11:41 EST ---
Without some kind of agreement on the sorting rules we can't move this issue
forward. I'm marking this as NEEDINFO until we have that information.
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1:38 a.m.
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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=514110
Jeff Law <law(a)redhat.com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Summary|[ta_IN] Tamil collation |[RFE] [ta_IN] Tamil
|rules are not working in |collation rules are not
|other locales |working in other locales
Flag|needinfo? |
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12:17 p.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 514110] [RFE] [ta_IN] Tamil collation rules are not working in other locales
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=514110
Jeff Law <law(a)redhat.com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Status|NEW |CLOSED
Resolution|--- |INSUFFICIENT_DATA
Last Closed| |2012-10-17 13:17:26
--- Comment #21 from Jeff Law <law(a)redhat.com> ---
No response from K. Sethu in over a year. Closing with insufficient data.
This can be reopened and addressed in the upstream sources if K. Sethu or
someone else can provide us with the right rules for collation in this locale.
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