[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 843331] New: [ta_IN] Please add glyphs for minority orthographies in Tamil

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=843331

            Bug ID: 843331
        QA Contact: extras-qa(a)fedoraproject.org
          Severity: unspecified
           Version: rawhide
          Priority: unspecified
                CC: fonts-bugs(a)lists.fedoraproject.org,
                    i18n-bugs(a)lists.fedoraproject.org, psatpute(a)redhat.com
          Assignee: psatpute(a)redhat.com
           Summary: [ta_IN] Please add glyphs for minority orthographies
                    in Tamil
        Regression: ---
      Story Points: ---
    Classification: Fedora
                OS: Unspecified
          Reporter: samjnaa(a)gmail.com
              Type: Bug
     Documentation: ---
          Hardware: Unspecified
        Mount Type: ---
            Status: NEW
         Component: lohit-tamil-fonts
           Product: Fedora

Created attachment 600434
  --> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=600434&action=edit
Glyphs required for minority orthographies in Tamil

While the Tamil script is mainly used for writing Tamil language text, it is
also attested to be used for other language text such as Sanskrit, Saurashtra,
Hindi, Marathi, Telugu and Kannada in the form of transliteration. 

For these minority orthography usecases, some characters from script-neutral
blocks are required:

1) The superscript digits ¹²³⁴ would be used for representing the varga
consonants (actually ¹ is only used very rarely). The Unicode chapter on Tamil
script documents this and recommends the characters (0xb9) 0xb2 0xb3 0x2074.

2) Not only the superscript digits but their corresponding subscript digits
₁₂₃₄ (0x2081-0x2084) are also attested as a stylistic variant choice. 

3) The modifier letter apostrophe 02BC ʼ is also seen.

4) Further, sometimes the candrabindu is also seen for nasality. Since there is
no Tamil candrabindu character, the generic candrabindu ◌̐  at 0310 can be
used. 

5) The visarga is commonly seen but the Tamil visarga code point 0B83 is mapped
to the Tamil special letter aytam ஃ (which has three dots against the visarga's
two dots), so we will have to place the two-dot visarga in the PUA. (Not ideal
I know, but it is unlikely to encode a Tamil-specific two-dot visarga. It is
not possible to use the Devanagari visarga codepoint 0903 since rendering
engines will produce dotted circles as it is not correct to combine Devanagari
codepoints with Tamil codepoints.)

Attestations for these usages and required glyphs are attached. Please add them
with the appropriate script-neutral codepoints shown in the patch TTF so Lohit
Tamil (and Lohit Tamil Classical) is also useful for these minority
orthographies. BTW it would be good font design policy to make the modifier
apostrophe a composite glyph of the regular apostrophe and subscript digits as
composites of superscript digits.

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 843331] [ta_IN] Please add glyphs for minority orthographies in Tamil

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=843331

Shriramana Sharma <samjnaa(a)gmail.com&gt; changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Attachment #600434|Glyphs required for         |Glyphs required for
        description|minority orthographies in   |minority orthographies in
                   |Tamil                       |Tamil and attestations for
                   |                            |the same

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 843331] [ta_IN] Please add glyphs for minority orthographies in Tamil

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=843331

--- Comment #1 from Nicolas Mailhot <nicolas.mailhot(a)laposte.net&gt; ---
BTW can you please work with fontconfig upstream to codify this coverage
knowledge in an .orth file?

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 843331] [ta_IN] Please add glyphs for minority orthographies in Tamil

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=843331

--- Comment #2 from Shriramana Sharma <samjnaa(a)gmail.com&gt; ---
Hi I'm totally inexperienced as to what "fontconfig codification of coverage
knowledge in an orth file" is. 

> From what you say it seems to be some mechanism by which the Linux
> font 
management system (fontconfig?) finds out which fonts has glyphs for which
codepoints? I thought it automatically scanned fonts to find out their
coverage.

Anyway, please point me to where to go to and I will see what I can do.

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 843331] [ta_IN] Please add glyphs for minority orthographies in Tamil

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=843331

Parag <pnemade(a)redhat.com&gt; changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |pnemade(a)redhat.com

--- Comment #3 from Parag <pnemade(a)redhat.com&gt; ---
fontconfig orthography files are the minimum coverage for any language. In
Ortho file, we used to write Unicode character range.

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 843331] [ta_IN] Please add glyphs for minority orthographies in Tamil

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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=843331

--- Comment #4 from Nicolas Mailhot <nicolas.mailhot(a)laposte.net&gt; ---
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/fontconfig/tree/fc-lang

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 843331] [ta_IN] Please add glyphs for minority orthographies in Tamil

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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=843331

--- Comment #5 from Shriramana Sharma <samjnaa(a)gmail.com&gt; ---
Hi -- in that case if you are accepting these glyphs for the Lohit Tamil fonts,
you only have to add:

0xb2, 0xb3, 0xb9, 0x2074
0x2081-0x2084
0x2bc
0x310
0xa789

Note about that last codepoint: I have been discussing with other users, and we
have decided that since it is best to avoid PUA, we can use the codepoint A789
MODIFIER LETTER COLON for visarga. 

Most people are right now using 0x3a colon anyway for convenience, but in
printed texts, the visarga is shown as two rings (see my TTF) and not as two
dots which is the shape of the colon. So there is a need to differentiate the
colon and visarga. So please map the visarga to the separate codepoint 0xa789
leaving 0x3a as it is.

BTW I have also examined the file
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/fontconfig/tree/fc-lang/ta.orth. It seems that even
the Tamil digits and numbers are commented out. Is this a script-specific
datafile or language-specific? If it is language-specific, then the above
characters should not be added to it because they are *not* for Tamil language
but for *other* languages written in Tamil script.

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 843331] [ta_IN] Please add glyphs for minority orthographies in Tamil

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--- Comment #6 from Nicolas Mailhot <nicolas.mailhot(a)laposte.net&gt; ---
(In reply to comment #5)

>  BTW I have also examined the file
>  http://cgit.freedesktop.org/fontconfig/tree/fc-lang/ta.orth. It seems that
>  even the Tamil digits and numbers are commented out. Is this a
>  script-specific datafile or language-specific? If it is language-specific,
>  then the above characters should not be added to it because they are *not*
>  for Tamil language but for *other* languages written in Tamil script. 
It is locale-specific. So it is possible to define a locale differing from
ta.orth if needed (if you look at the list fontconfig already knows quite a few
sub-locales where the same script has started diverging in neighbouring
locales)

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 843331] [ta_IN] Please add glyphs for minority orthographies in Tamil

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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=843331



--- Comment #8 from Shriramana Sharma <samjnaa(a)gmail.com&gt; ---
Hello. It seems this issue is not yet resolved.

These additional glyphs do not relate to any particular locale other than
ta_IN. They are used in ta_IN only. They are not replacement glyphs for the
regular Tamil letters/signs. They are additional glyphs required for supporting
minority user requirements in Tamil script.

May I know what is the problem in just adding these glyphs to the Lohit Tamil
[+Classical] fonts? Thank you.

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 843331] [ta_IN] Please add glyphs for minority orthographies in Tamil

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=843331

Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com&gt; changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|NEW                         |ASSIGNED
            Version|19                          |20



--- Comment #9 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com&gt; ---
Hi Shriramana,

   Apologies, looks like i missed this. This looks perfectly fine to me. Yeah
if Tamil script required some characters from other script we must provide it
in single font so they can harmonise nicely with other Tamil characters. We
will do this in coming month. Good to see you have provided patch as well :)

  We will do this in coming month.

   From .orth file perspective i think we should not add any more characters to
existing ta.orth as we looks for minimal character coverage to support Tamil
language. AFAIK very few Tamil fonts around has these characters.

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 843331] [ta_IN] Please add glyphs for minority orthographies in Tamil

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=843331

Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com&gt; changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|ASSIGNED                    |MODIFIED



--- Comment #10 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com&gt; ---
Committed in Lohit Tamil, will be available with alpha release.

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 843331] [ta_IN] Please add glyphs for minority orthographies in Tamil

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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=843331



--- Comment #11 from Fedora Update System <updates(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; ---
lohit-tamil-fonts-2.91.0-1.fc20 has been submitted as an update for Fedora 20.
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/lohit-tamil-fonts-2.91.0-1.fc20

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 843331] [ta_IN] Please add glyphs for minority orthographies in Tamil

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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=843331



--- Comment #12 from Fedora Update System <updates(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; ---
lohit-tamil-fonts-2.91.0-1.fc21 has been submitted as an update for Fedora 21.
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/lohit-tamil-fonts-2.91.0-1.fc21

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 843331] [ta_IN] Please add glyphs for minority orthographies in Tamil

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=843331

Fedora Update System <updates(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|MODIFIED                    |ON_QA



--- Comment #13 from Fedora Update System <updates(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; ---
Package lohit-tamil-fonts-2.91.0-1.fc20:
* should fix your issue,
* was pushed to the Fedora 20 testing repository,
* should be available at your local mirror within two days.
Update it with:
# su -c 'yum update --enablerepo=updates-testing
lohit-tamil-fonts-2.91.0-1.fc20'
as soon as you are able to.
Please go to the following url:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2014-12828/lohit-tamil-fon...
then log in and leave karma (feedback).

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 843331] [ta_IN] Please add glyphs for minority orthographies in Tamil

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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=843331



--- Comment #14 from Fedora Update System <updates(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; ---
lohit-tamil-fonts-2.91.0-2.fc21 has been submitted as an update for Fedora 21.
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/lohit-tamil-fonts-2.91.0-2.fc21

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 843331] [ta_IN] Please add glyphs for minority orthographies in Tamil

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=843331

Fedora Update System <updates(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|ON_QA                       |CLOSED
   Fixed In Version|                            |lohit-tamil-fonts-2.91.0-2.
                   |                            |fc21
         Resolution|---                         |ERRATA
        Last Closed|                            |2014-11-10 01:45:33



--- Comment #15 from Fedora Update System <updates(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; ---
lohit-tamil-fonts-2.91.0-2.fc21 has been pushed to the Fedora 21 stable
repository.  If problems still persist, please make note of it in this bug
report.

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