[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] New: Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
9:46 p.m.
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Summary: Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=799565
Summary: Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E
MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
Product: Fedora
Version: 16
Platform: Unspecified
OS/Version: Unspecified
Status: NEW
Severity: unspecified
Priority: unspecified
Component: lohit-malayalam-fonts
AssignedTo: psatpute(a)redhat.com
ReportedBy: samjnaa(a)gmail.com
QAContact: extras-qa(a)fedoraproject.org
CC: fonts-bugs(a)lists.fedoraproject.org,
psatpute(a)redhat.com, i18n-bugs(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
Classification: Fedora
Story Points: ---
Type: ---
Regression: ---
Mount Type: ---
Documentation: ---
Description of problem:
It was announced
(https://www.redhat.com/archives/lohit-devel-list/2012-February/msg00011.html)
that the latest 2.5.1 version Lohit fonts support latest Unicode 6.0
characters. Especially Malayalam was also mentioned.
However I find that the Lohit Malayalam 2.5.1 release downloadable from
https://fedorahosted.org/releases/l/o/lohit/lohit-malayalam-ttf-2.5.1.tar.gz
does NOT provide support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH.
As this is one of the three Malayalam characters encoded for Unicode 6.0 (see
http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/DerivedAge.txt and search for 0D4E) it
should also be supported.
[The other two characters are provided but 0D3A has a wrong glyph which I have
reported as bug 798870.]
Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable):
2.5.1
Steps to Reproduce:
1. Install Lohit Malayalam 2.5.1 font.
2. Try to use 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
Actual results:
This character is not available.
Expected results:
This character was encoded to support the old Malayalam orthography. As such it
should be made available for full Unicode 6.0 (or 6.1) support.
Additional info:
You might need to do some smart font programming to position the dot reph
correctly. Note that this character is a special rendering character (hence the
dotted box around it in the code chart
http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0D00.pdf).
The special rendering is that it should be placed on top of the character
*following* it. See the original proposal bottom of page 3 and top of page 4.
I think the e-Malayalam OTC font
(http://www.aai.uni-hamburg.de/indtib/INDOLIPI/Malayalam.zip) has pre-composed
glyphs using this character on top of other consonants which might help you in
positioning this character. Note that most often it is found with doubled
consonants (i.e. DOT_REPH + GA + VIRAMA + GA etc) so you will have to be able
to position this character above stacked consonant clusters.
I hope this is sufficient feedback for supporting this character which is
important for old Malayalam orthography.
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10:33 p.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional
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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=799565
--- Comment #1 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> 2012-03-04 23:33:08 EST
---
can you provide screenshot of its rendering?
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12:24 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional
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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=799565
--- Comment #2 from Shriramana Sharma <samjnaa(a)gmail.com> 2012-03-05 01:24:56 EST
---
The original proposal http://std.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc2/wg2/docs/n3676.pdf has many
examples on pp 3-5. Is that enough?
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3:33 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional
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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=799565
Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Status|NEW |MODIFIED
--- Comment #3 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> 2012-03-05 04:33:43 EST
---
yes, fixed in upstream, latest ttf
http://pravins.fedorapeople.org/Lohit-Malayalam.ttf
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8:42 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional
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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=799565
--- Comment #4 from Shriramana Sharma <samjnaa(a)gmail.com> 2012-03-05 09:42:05 EST
---
Created attachment 567649
--> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=567649
Revised Lohit Malayalam for bugs #799565 and #798870
There are some corrections. Please find attached a revised font.
The correction is that the dot reph should have a positive LSB. Otherwise it
will become positioned on the previous letter rather than on the following
letter. Please see original proposal. PA DOT_REPH VA പൎവ should place dot reph
on VA, and not PA. So I have now moved the dot reph to the right.
However, while it seems to be working correctly (at least in LibreOffice) with
medium-size consonants like ഗ വ etc, it still does not look good with wide
consonants like ണ. It should ideally be centered on top of the consonant as you
can see in the proposal samples. Can you please implement proper glyph
positioning? I don't know how to do that.
I will attach ODT and PDF samples of font as currently modified by me for
testing.
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8:44 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
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--- Comment #5 from Shriramana Sharma <samjnaa(a)gmail.com> 2012-03-05 09:44:23 EST
---
Created attachment 567651
--> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=567651
ODT and PDF for test-case
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11:40 p.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=799565
--- Comment #6 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> 2012-03-06 00:40:27 EST
---
this is peculiar case, where marks come first and then base character. need to
check it.
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12:06 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=799565
--- Comment #7 from Shriramana Sharma <samjnaa(a)gmail.com> 2012-03-06 01:06:54 EST
---
Yes as I told you that is why the character in the Unicode chart has a dotted
box around it to indicate that it is a special rendering character.
I quote from: http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode6.0.0/ch09.pdf p 310:
Dot Reph. U+0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH is used to represent the dead
consonant form of U+0D30 MALAYALAM LETTER RA, when **it is displayed as a dot
over the consonant following it**. Conceptually, the dot reph is analogous to
the sequence <RA, VIRAMA>, but when followed by another consonant, the
Malayalam cluster <RA, VIRAMA, C2> normally assumes the C2 conjoining form.
**U+0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH occurs first, in logical order, even though
it displays as a dot above the succeeding consonant**. It has the character
properties of a letter, and is not considered a combining mark.
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1:03 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=799565
--- Comment #8 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> 2012-03-07 02:03:13 EST
---
If we consider this as a base character, then there is no feature in OT spec
for doing base to base positioning. We can use dist/kern feature but i dont
think it will give expected results.
Dunno, do we need reordering for this character? we are reordering "ra+virama"
in Devanagari script.
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11:55 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
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Santhosh Thottingal <santhosh.thottingal(a)gmail.com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC| |santhosh.thottingal(a)gmail.c
| |om
--- Comment #9 from Santhosh Thottingal <santhosh.thottingal(a)gmail.com> 2012-03-08
12:55:52 EST ---
I used akhn for this in Meera. The dot positioning using positive lsb is not
optimal and will result the dot appearing in wrong positions size the ligature
below is variable width. The DOT should come in center top position in general,
but there are exceptions too. Meera has separate glyphs, for all valid dot
rephs. But I got some issues in this implementation too.
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10:43 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
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--- Comment #10 from Shriramana Sharma <samjnaa(a)gmail.com> 2012-03-09 11:43:21 EST
---
I asked about this on Unicore list. One Microsoft engineer replied that they
use reordering for this. I am guessing that they are treating the dot_reph
character just like any other reph in any Indic script -- move it to the end of
the syllable. The only difference is that Malayalam has a distinct character
for this whereas in other scripts it is just RA + VIRAMA which is rendered as
the reph.
So probably you can just treat it like the reph of other scripts. However, as
Santosh says (and I already said) there will be a problem with the positioning.
One solution is to use akhanda ligatures as Santosh says but that is just a
hack. The proper solution is to use GPOS. After all, that is what GPOS is for,
isn't it? To position combining marks properly?
That said, I myself am not knowledgeable about all this GPOS-GSUB thing -- I'm
more a Graphite person. So I leave it to you people to decide how to implement
this.
I would only suggest that if you do use akhanda ligatures that you use
composite glyphs instead of duplicating existing outlines. Would help in
keeping the size of the font under check.
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6:46 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
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--- Comment #11 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> 2012-03-12 07:46:57 EDT
---
Santhosh, i think with reordering dot-reph to end of the syllable, we can solve
this problem.
We can simply use positioning/kerning for it, Once it get reordered same way
like Anuswara in Devanagari script U+0902 we can position it.
For time being for testing purpose we can type u0d4e at the end of syllable and
check.
In between i am not finding any rule written for dot-reph ligatures in Meera
font.
Shriramana, can you ask Microsoft guy regarding any link for it in
specification, we can ask behdad to do that change in harfbuzz.
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11:09 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
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--- Comment #12 from Shriramana Sharma <samjnaa(a)gmail.com> 2012-03-12 12:09:29 EDT
---
(In reply to comment #11)
For time being for testing purpose we can type u0d4e at the end of
syllable and
check.
Agreed. If the kerning is done first, we can later bring in reordering support
from the software side.
Shriramana, can you ask Microsoft guy regarding any link for it in
specification, we can ask behdad to do that change in harfbuzz.
AFAIK this is not present in the Microsoft OT docs on Malayalam
(http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otfntdev/malayot/shaping.aspx). The
Unicode publication only says right now that it should be placed after the
following consonant but clearly this is insufficient description. I will ask
the Unicode people to update the wording. Hopefully Behdad can implement this
as you say.
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11:09 p.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=799565
Behdad Esfahbod <behdad(a)fedoraproject.org> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CC| |behdad(a)fedoraproject.org
--- Comment #13 from Behdad Esfahbod <behdad(a)fedoraproject.org> ---
Hi all,
We understand the Repha now. Will implement for Malayalam soon (eg. tomorrow).
Cheers,
behdad
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2:27 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=799565
--- Comment #14 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> ---
Thats nice.
http://pravins.fedorapeople.org/Lohit-Malayalam.ttf Test font with added GPOS
'abvm' for U+0D4E (though not very accurate positioning)
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6:22 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=799565
--- Comment #15 from Shriramana Sharma <samjnaa(a)gmail.com> ---
Created attachment 599365
--> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=599365&action=edit
Desired rendering of dot reph and comparison of Bengali syllable structure
@Pravin/Behdad: I'm not much knowledgeable about but isn't the feature tag for
reph characters spelt as "reph" or "rphf" or something?
@Behdad: Basically if you treat this 0D4E character equivalent to the
cluster-initial RA + VIRAMA sequences of other Indic scripts, especially
Bengali, I think it would be sufficient. Why Bengali? Because it also has two
part vowel signs ো ৌ like Malayalam ൊ ോ ൌ and the reph also. But Bengali
doesn't seem to have post-base VA unlike Malayalam so you may have to look out
for that.
FWIW I have attached a document (ODT and PDF) showing the desired rendering of
the reph (using the e-Malayalam OTC font from the "Indolipi" package [link
above] which hack-renders the Malayalam RA + Virama combination as the reph)
and the equivalent Bengali sequences in two standard Bengali fonts.
You might also like to see
https://sites.google.com/site/jamadagni/files/utcsubmissions/12106-ed-upd...
§3 (on p 4) for more details on the Malayalam dot reph.
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6:45 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=799565
--- Comment #16 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> ---
Feature tag will not come into picture for U+0D4E, once reordering is done by
OTLS as per syllable structure, we can simply apple GPOS tag 'abvm' and get
desired positioning.
I will update Lohit as per desired positioning.
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4:02 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
Product: Fedora
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=799565
--- Comment #17 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> ---
(In reply to comment #13)
Hi all,
We understand the Repha now. Will implement for Malayalam soon (eg.
tomorrow).
I just checked with Harfbuzz NG. Still we are not reordering U+0D4E at the end
of syllable.
"ൎക"
hb-shape returns :: [uni0D4E=0|U0D15=1+1015]
Any specific plan for this?
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12:45 p.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
Product: Fedora
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=799565
--- Comment #18 from Behdad Esfahbod <behdad(a)fedoraproject.org> ---
Ok, I'll work on this now. Thanks for pinging, I was out of issues to fix and
was getting bored... :)
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2:50 p.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
Product: Fedora
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=799565
--- Comment #19 from Behdad Esfahbod <behdad(a)fedoraproject.org> ---
Fixed upstream. Please test.
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12:21 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
Product: Fedora
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=799565
--- Comment #20 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> ---
(In reply to comment #7)
I quote from: http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode6.0.0/ch09.pdf p
310:
Dot Reph. U+0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH is used to represent the dead
consonant form of U+0D30 MALAYALAM LETTER RA, when **it is displayed as a
dot over the consonant following it**. Conceptually, the dot reph is
analogous to the sequence <RA, VIRAMA>, but when followed by another
consonant, the Malayalam cluster <RA, VIRAMA, C2> normally assumes the C2
conjoining form. **U+0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH occurs first, in logical
order, even though it displays as a dot above the succeeding consonant**. It
has the character properties of a letter, and is not considered a combining
mark.
I still not get this output. do i need to use different OT feature here?
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5:40 p.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
Product: Fedora
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=799565
--- Comment #21 from Behdad Esfahbod <behdad(a)fedoraproject.org> ---
Testing with the font in comment 14, I see the reordering happening. Here's
the hb-shape output:
$ ./hb-unicode-encode d4e,d15 | build/util/hb-shape ./Lohit-Malayalam.ttf
--shaper ot
[U0D15=0+1015|uni0D4E=0@-971,-41+0]
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5:46 p.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
Product: Fedora
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=799565
--- Comment #22 from Behdad Esfahbod <behdad(a)fedoraproject.org> ---
This is what I get with Lohit-Malayalam 2.5.2:
$ ./hb-unicode-encode d4e,d15 | build/util/hb-shape
indic-fonts-lohit/malayalam.ttf
[U0D15=0+1015|uni0D4E=0@-971,-41+0]
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2:05 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
Product: Fedora
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=799565
--- Comment #23 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> ---
My mistake. Messed up with git, its working fine now.
I will do release of lohit with this fix.
Thanks a lot Behdad
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2:45 a.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
Product: Fedora
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=799565
--- Comment #24 from Behdad Esfahbod <behdad(a)fedoraproject.org> ---
Cool. Please close when you do.
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11:10 p.m.
New subject: [Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 799565] Lohit Malayalam font does not have support for 0D4E MALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH
Product: Fedora
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=799565
Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> changed:
What |Removed |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Status|MODIFIED |CLOSED
Resolution|--- |UPSTREAM
Last Closed| |2013-01-03 00:10:57
--- Comment #25 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> ---
Completed GPOS in upstream, will be available with the next release of
lohit-malayalam-fonts.
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