reading rss feeds last night - I think this is something we could use
I realize it's using django - but if there's something like it for
turbogears I'd be all ears. A simple way of letting an end user
dynamically create a database and automatically have the web forms to go
with it would go a long way for a lot of things we'd want to record.
I setup an instance of the stand-alone gobby server on publictest2, per
the gobby RFR. This will allow anyone to collaborate in real-time on
any text: spec files, code, notes, ideas, etc. You can test it out by
installing 'gobby' and connecting to publictest2.fedora.redhat.com
If we want to commit to hosting this service, there are a bunch of stuff
that we need to do and test first, but I'm just looking to get some
initial feedback from you guys on it.
Hopefully we can get a bunch of use out of it during the Virtual FUDCon
There was some discussion at the last meeting about how to use asterisk
in the future for meetings or even if we should. This has brought up an
Early adoption of asterisk is slow because not everyone has the
equipment to use it. People don't feel compelled to get the equipment
because adoption is slow.
So what do we do about it? I feel very strongly asterisk as a medium is
much more efficient to use then IRC and helps bring the team together to
work as a more cohesive unit. I also believe it will do the same for
other groups. But we cannot do the meetings in asterisk at this time
because it raises the barrier to entry by too much and provides no
meeting logs. So I'd like to propose the following possible solutions.
1) Meet 15 minutes before or after the meeting for a
supplemental-meeting in asterisk to shake out some things. Then
continue with the meeting in IRC as normal.
2) Meetings in IRC are generally very slow, it might be worth it to do
the meetings as normal but also have people log in to asterisk to bs and
generally just chat, get to know each other a bit better.
3) Do as we did last week, have people who can't talk join the
conference anyway and ask questions in the chat room while having
someone transcribe and provide minutes.
4) ? you come up with some.
In general I think 2) is most practical for now. I'd prefer 3) since I
think everyone can have headphones and listen in to the main meeting and
ask questions in IRC but having someone volunteer to transcribe /
summarize the meeting is a huge commitment.
This is a big change for us, having said that I think anyone who has
used the technology will agree that it works very well. It will work
even better as people start to use it more and get used to their
equipment and more people feel the need to get a proper mic/head set.
Fedora is very much about new technologies and early adoption. I'd love
for us to be the first OSS community to use asterisk like this, and of
course if Fedora is going to use it, the Infrastructure team should lead
the way. Having said that, any changes like this are raising the
barrier to entry and that is just a dangerous thing to do. As long as
we still have IRC I think we'll be fine but this is something we must
choose as a group.
> In general I think 2) is most practical for now. I'd prefer
> 3) since I think everyone can have headphones and listen in
> to the main meeting and ask questions in IRC but having
> someone volunteer to transcribe / summarize the meeting is a
> huge commitment.
I don't think meeting minutes would be an issue.
I'm used to them for work meetings, others likely used to similar. Not a word for word dictation, just a summary of discussion points, decisions, action items. We don't need to go all Robert's Rules on this, but good meeting minutes are golden.
Just have someone makes the notes summarizing the discussion into the irc channel. Those that had to step away from the meeting could catch up, but more importantly, it gives us a written record of a voice-based meeting.
The other barrier to voice meetings that I don't think was mentioned was that it requires good spoken english, rather than just written english (and the ability to understand it). Having summaries written as the meeting progresses might help that.
Lunch is far too short,
Cheers - Michael
[14:02] =-= mmcgrath has changed the topic to "Infrastructure -- Role Call"
<mmcgrath> Who's here?
|<-- jeremy has left freenode (Remote closed the connection)
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* ricky is
[14:03] [ERROR] Missing required parameter action.
* yingbull is.
* mmcgrath waits a moment for the others
<mmcgrath> f13 abadger1999 skvidal jcollie + anyone I missed, ping
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[14:04] <f13> I'm sort of here
* abadger1999 here
<mmcgrath> K, we'll get started on tickets first
=-= mmcgrath has changed the topic to "Infrastructure -- Tickets"
<mmcgrath> https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/fedora-infrastructure/query?sta... <https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/fedora-infrastructure/query?sta...>
[14:05] abadger1999: Whats the latest on #15, I see you added it to be discussed.
<abadger1999> We're deployed :-)
Packagedb is running on app3 and 4.
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[14:06] <abadger1999> owners.list and pkg.acl are now obsolete.
<mmcgrath> excellent, so whats the plan for notification, etc.
they're obsolete as of right this moment?
* wolfy taking notes
<abadger1999> mmcgrath: That's right.
I sent a message to fedora-devel-anounce that went out this morning.
[14:07] The cvsadmins have been finding bugs for me.
I'm planning on squashing those for 1-2 weeks and then letting packagers know that they can do a lot of the things for themselves now.
[14:08] <mmcgrath> abadger1999: did the announcement actually get approved, I'm not seeing it.
<abadger1999> Someone replied to it so I'm pretty sure.
[14:09] <mmcgrath> k, I won't worry about it then.
abadger1999: how much more work do you think will be done on it over the next couple of weeks?
<abadger1999> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-announce/2007-August/msg0000... <https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-announce/2007-August/msg0000...>
<mmcgrath> bug fixes, etc.
<abadger1999> Here's the trac roadmap: https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/packagedb/report/3 <https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/packagedb/report/3>
[14:10] I'm planning on fixing most of 0.3.1 in the next two weeks.
With things like buggbot being pushed off if there's a glut of other bugs that haven't been mentioned yet.
[14:11] <mmcgrath> <nod> are you using the production database?
Production db is pkgdb on db2.
<abadger1999> There's a test db on publictest1 as well.
[14:12] <mmcgrath> Ok, well good job with that. It will be most helpful :)
anything else before we move on?
<abadger1999> That's it :-)
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[14:13] <mmcgrath> The next ticket is for paulobanon but I don't see him around right now
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<mmcgrath> jcollie: ping?
[14:14] <ricky> pong- Sorry, no updates on the wiki yet- I've been looking more on FAS2 recently.
<mmcgrath> ricky: no worries on that, FAS2 is far more important.
Ok, so thats it with the tickets, we'll move on to the schedule
<ricky> I got a look at ikiwiki, though, and it does look pretty cool.
[14:15] <mmcgrath> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/Schedule <http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/Schedule>
So the VCS choice is still on going, we need to setup another meeting.
jcollie must be busy with $DAYJOB :)
[14:16] =-= mmcgrath has changed the topic to "Infrastructure -- Sponsorship"
<mmcgrath> Nothing majorly new here, I've taken on two sponsors though I almost never hear / see them.
good thing I put a time limit on those things :)
anyone have any comments / questions about the new sponsorship model? Good/bad?
[14:17] <loupgaroublond> +1
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<abadger1999> It seems good but I haven't had anyone approach me... I approached the last person I sponsored.
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<mmcgrath> abadger1999: yeah, I think it will be hit and miss for a while. Though, in general, it feels like the group is growing at a good rate.
[14:18] =-= mmcgrath has changed the topic to "Infrastructure -- SOP's"
<mmcgrath> I've been working on some more SOP's, as always we can use more people to write these things up.
Thats really all there is to the SOP stuff on the schedule, if anything isn't documented that should be please add it or at least bring it up on the list so someone else can document it.
Going to be a short meeting I think :)
[14:19] =-= mmcgrath has changed the topic to "Infrastructure -- Open Floor"
<mmcgrath> Anyone have anything they'd like to bring up? Seems a lot of people are missing today with $DAYJOB or other things.
<yingbull> Just wanting to say hello. I'm looking to get involved, so this is the first meeting I'm at.
I've been lurking in the fedora-admin channel the last week.
[14:20] <lmacken> yingbull: welcome!
<mmcgrath> yingbull: hello, I saw your introduction on the list.
<ricky> Welcome :)
<mmcgrath> One thing I'd like to ask people is about the asterisk setup.
<loupgaroublond> do we have any quote unquote web apps aside from smolt, and maybe bodhi, that the end user will see?
<mmcgrath> loupgaroublond: we have many
[14:21] loupgaroublond: you talking about the ones we build in house or all apps?
<loupgaroublond> do they have any semblance of a release cycle?
<abadger1999> pkgdb and koji are the same class as bodhi
<mmcgrath> they all have their own release cycles.
<loupgaroublond> i had some funny questions about the smolt web server, since it's not bound to the fedora release cycle the way the client is
[14:22] and i just want to get some ideas what the usual fedora way is
<mmcgrath> loupgaroublond: each project is, generally, considered its own upstream.
The release cycle somewhat follows the normal Fedora release cycle if something is needed for that release.
[14:23] but in general the devs are up to their own means to produce code and an actual release.
<loupgaroublond> oh ok
just wondering :)
[14:24] ok, so back to asterisk.
we've got most major pieces in order, the problem with using it is that we're raising the barrier to entry into the group for meetings and such.
So the question is, is it worth it or not.
[14:25] Thoughts ?
[14:26] * bpepple|lt listens to the crickets.
<yingbull> Its easier to juggle irc w/ $DAYJOB.
<weirdguy> (opinion of a lurker) imho, asterisk can be interesting if some sort of transcript or recording is available (both for lurkers like me or for ppl who happen to be busy during meeting times
<abadger1999> FWIW, I liked quaid's post on the mailing list.
<loupgaroublond> it's hard to replicate the information in real time for people that don't always have the option to use it
<mmcgrath> abadger1999: I did too though, it seemed to lack any suggestions about what to do about it.
[14:27] <loupgaroublond> i suppose you would always say, any one object to using asterix this time around
and then downgrade to IRC
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<mmcgrath> We had a lot of people who could at least listen in and comment in IRC last time, headphones don't seem too high of a barrier to me but I question how practical that is.
<mmcgrath> We may know more after FudCON.
[14:28] loupgaroublond: I don't think bandwidth is any real concern, not that I've heard anyway.
<abadger1999> loupgaroublond: The only danger there being, people don't want to be disagreeable even if it excludes them from having meaningful input.
<yingbull> Would someone take minutes for the meeting, or would we just rely on a recording?
[14:29] <ricky> Recording is actually really easy with Asterisk, from what I've seen.
<mmcgrath> yingbull: not sure, thats something to figure out.
<yingbull> mmcgrath: I'd suggest both.
<loupgaroublond> is that legal sans disclaimer?
<yingbull> mmgrath: Its easier to review a bunch of past meeting minutes, than it is to listen to a bunch of recordings.
<ricky> But I guess the main thing is to outline the benefits of voice meetings over IRC first.
[14:30] |<-- bpepple|lt has left freenode ("Ex-Chat")
<mmcgrath> no doubt, perhaps it would be good to take this to the list
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<mmcgrath> Ok, anyone have anything else to discuss? If not we can close the list.
[14:32] err close the meeting :)
* mmcgrath will close in 30
[14:33] <mmcgrath> 15
=-= mmcgrath has changed the topic to "Infrastructure -- Meeting end"
<mmcgrath> thanks for coming everyone.
[14:34] <abadger1999> Thanks for running the meeting
Just to let you guys know that ill going on vacations for one week, starting
So if vpv or Rayvd need any help, please assist them, since usually its me
take care of their stuff.
happy work & coding :)
Testing has been going well, and people seem to like/want/need the
service so I thought that we should nail down what features we want in
the "Fedora Project PBX 1.0". Here's a list based on what I'd like to
see and what I've gathered from IRC/email/voice conferences.
1) Permanent voice conferences for various Fedora subgroups.
Conferences identified so far:
Other permanent voice conferences would be requested through a Fedora
Infrastructure ticket. Larger conferences may need some sort of
moderation system. Open question: should anonymous SIP callers be
allowed to talk on the permanent conferences or should they be
listen-only? Status: basic conferencing is working, moderation features
are lacking in conferencing application and need to be developed.
2) Conferences should be able to be recorded. Status: in development.
3) Ad-hoc voice conferences. Anyone with a FAS account would be able to
request an ad-hoc voice conference (optionally controlled via a PIN)
through a web interface. Ad-hoc conferences would expire after a short
time (24 hours?). These conferences would likely remain relatively
small so moderation features would not be needed. Status: The web
interface has not been started but Seth and I have the PBX side mostly
4) SIP accounts for anyone with a FAS account that requests them so that
sip:<username>@fedoraproject.org would forward calls to your softphone.
IAX2 accounts would be available for "power" users. Numeric extensions
will be assigned for those situations where it's more convenient to dial
by number rather than name. Status - design is nearly complete, need to
automate account creation and more testing.
5) Every SIP account would have voicemail. Instead of storing the
messages locally, audio files will be forwarded to
<username>@fedoraproject.org. Status - testing the design, depends on
automatic creation of accounts from FAS.
6) Access conferences and people from the PSTN (e.g. your cell phone).
A US DID number will be obtained from an ITSP and forwarded to the
Fedora Project PBX. DID numbers in other countries may be obtained if
there is enough need and the costs are reasonable. Status: some testing
has been done but a permanent ITSP needs to be identifed and an IVR
needs to be developed so that all of the features can be accessed from
7) Documentation on how to set up Ekiga (for Gnome) and Twinkle (for
KDE) needs to be developed. Other SIP clients will work, but you're on
your own. Status: not started.
8) The PBX is currently running on publictest4 - need to identify
permanent host and move the setup there. Firewall may need fixing up,
puppet needs to be set up, and Nagios monitoring configured. Probably
need a sysadmin-pbx group set up so that the appropriate individuals can
manage the system. Status: not started.
Just a quick note of introduction.
I'm looking to get involved with the infrastructure team for Fedora. I consider this a rather delayed reaction from Spot's talk on rpm best practices at the Summit this year. He included a shameless plug for volunteers, which I'm usually a sucker for. Just happened to start having some time now.
I've been working in IT in a number of roles for the last 10 years, most of which involved RH Linux and RHEL, along with other OSes. I'm firing this email off in a delayed (brief) lunch break; most of my contributions will be in my own time, but my employeer is flexible with respect to the weekly meetings. As most IT folks know, its not hard to make up hours as the work queue can seem rather infinite at times.....
My current role is managing a ~500 RHEL system network, in various roles, helping keep things running, while not running us off our feet. I've a fair range of skills, when I get a better idea of what you're looking for its easier for me to speak to it. I'm an RHCE, with one of my RHCA endorsements (Systems deployment/management). I've been at the last couple RH Summits, and have afew other IT certs that I may admit to at a later time :-).
Looking forward to meeting your all, and finding where I could be of assistance.
I've been working on this infrastructure ticket:
which is to port all bugzilla scripts away from touching the db directly
and instead using the xmlrpc interface. Of the scripts I found, I think
that two are not needed:
If anyone knows of someplace where these are used please reply and let
me know by Thursday otherwise I'm going to cvs remove them.