Possibility of Fedora sponsoring a Freenode server

[Nick Bebout]

What is everyone's thoughts about us sponsoring a Freenode server?  Their
general requirements are noted on http://freenode.net/hosting_ircd.shtml
and I've discussed them with mmcgrath and he has said they seem doable,
probably on telia1 or osuosl1.  Basically we'd be providing them a xen
guest with about 1.5 or 2 GB ram, client servers should expect to sustain
around 1Mbps of traffic, with much higher peaks. Total usage for client
servers is usually around 320 gigabytes per month, while hidden hubs are
generally much lower overall.

We'd be giving them at least a user account on it, they prefer sudo if
possible.  They handle the day-to-day administering of the ircd, either
scp'ing new binaries or compiling the ircd on the server itself, and
copying new config files to there.

I've talked to their sponsor liaison and they seem to be interested.  Mike
and I wanted to discuss it on here before I send the actual "proposal"
email.

I think it would be a good idea, especially since we use them so much for
our IRC channels, it'd be nice to contribute a server back to the network.

Nick

[Nigel Jones]

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:39 AM, Nick Bebout <nick(a)bebout.net&gt; wrote:
>  What is everyone's thoughts about us sponsoring a Freenode
> server?  Their
>  general requirements are noted on http://freenode.net/hosting_ircd.shtml
>  and I've discussed them with mmcgrath and he has said they seem doable,
>  probably on telia1 or osuosl1.  Basically we'd be providing them a xen,
>  guest with about 1.5 or 2 GB ram, client servers should expect to sustain
>  around 1Mbps of traffic, with much higher peaks. Total usage for client
>  servers is usually around 320 gigabytes per month, while hidden hubs are
>  generally much lower overall.
>
>  We'd be giving them at least a user account on it, they prefer sudo if
>  possible.  They handle the day-to-day administering of the ircd, either
>  scp'ing new binaries or compiling the ircd on the server itself, and
>  copying new config files to there.
>
>  I've talked to their sponsor liaison and they seem to be interested.  Mike
>  and I wanted to discuss it on here before I send the actual "proposal"
>  email.
>
>  I think it would be a good idea, especially since we use them so much for
>  our IRC channels, it'd be nice to contribute a server back to the network.
Sorry but I'd put a -1 on this.

There was a discussion/proposal (via Trac) from mdomsch there and I
know I put some reasons down.  Heres a few though:

* Freenode already have an osuosl server iirc
* Have we discussed this w/ our sponsors, they've been giving us
space/bandwidth to do stuff that would benefit Fedora Project
directly.
* Freenode has had a lot of DDOS attacks recently, putting a sponsor
under the potential for such strain is silly.

I'd also say that the Board should have some say on this.

-- Nigel Jones

[Mike McGrath]

On Thu, 18 Mar 2010, Nigel Jones wrote:

>  On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:39 AM, Nick Bebout <nick(a)bebout.net&gt;
> wrote:
>  > What is everyone's thoughts about us sponsoring a Freenode server?  Their
>  > general requirements are noted on http://freenode.net/hosting_ircd.shtml
>  > and I've discussed them with mmcgrath and he has said they seem doable,
>  > probably on telia1 or osuosl1.  Basically we'd be providing them a xen,
>  > guest with about 1.5 or 2 GB ram, client servers should expect to sustain
>  > around 1Mbps of traffic, with much higher peaks. Total usage for client
>  > servers is usually around 320 gigabytes per month, while hidden hubs are
>  > generally much lower overall.
>  >
>  > We'd be giving them at least a user account on it, they prefer sudo if
>  > possible.  They handle the day-to-day administering of the ircd, either
>  > scp'ing new binaries or compiling the ircd on the server itself, and
>  > copying new config files to there.
>  >
>  > I've talked to their sponsor liaison and they seem to be interested.  Mike
>  > and I wanted to discuss it on here before I send the actual "proposal"
>  > email.
>  >
>  > I think it would be a good idea, especially since we use them so much for
>  > our IRC channels, it'd be nice to contribute a server back to the network.
>  Sorry but I'd put a -1 on this.
>
>  There was a discussion/proposal (via Trac) from mdomsch there and I
>  know I put some reasons down.  Heres a few though:
>
>  * Freenode already have an osuosl server iirc
>  * Have we discussed this w/ our sponsors, they've been giving us
>  space/bandwidth to do stuff that would benefit Fedora Project
>  directly.
>  * Freenode has had a lot of DDOS attacks recently, putting a sponsor
>  under the potential for such strain is silly.
>
>  I'd also say that the Board should have some say on this.
>  
I think the good citizen thing to do for freenode would be to host a
server.  We do use them extensively, giving back is the right thing to do.
But the above points do give me serious pause and are good points.  What
do other think?

	-Mike

[David Nalley]

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Mike McGrath <mmcgrath(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
>  On Thu, 18 Mar 2010, Nigel Jones wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:39 AM, Nick Bebout <nick(a)bebout.net&gt; wrote:
> > > What is everyone's thoughts about us sponsoring a Freenode server?  Their
> > > general requirements are noted on http://freenode.net/hosting_ircd.shtml
> > > and I've discussed them with mmcgrath and he has said they seem doable,
> > > probably on telia1 or osuosl1.  Basically we'd be providing them a xen,
> > > guest with about 1.5 or 2 GB ram, client servers should expect to sustain
> > > around 1Mbps of traffic, with much higher peaks. Total usage for client
> > > servers is usually around 320 gigabytes per month, while hidden hubs are
> > > generally much lower overall.
> > >
> > > We'd be giving them at least a user account on it, they prefer sudo if
> > > possible.  They handle the day-to-day administering of the ircd, either
> > > scp'ing new binaries or compiling the ircd on the server itself, and
> > > copying new config files to there.
> > >
> > > I've talked to their sponsor liaison and they seem to be interested.  Mike
> > > and I wanted to discuss it on here before I send the actual
> "proposal"
> > > email.
> > >
> > > I think it would be a good idea, especially since we use them so much for
> > > our IRC channels, it'd be nice to contribute a server back to the network.
> > Sorry but I'd put a -1 on this.
> >
> > There was a discussion/proposal (via Trac) from mdomsch there and I
> > know I put some reasons down.  Heres a few though:
> >
> > * Freenode already have an osuosl server iirc
> > * Have we discussed this w/ our sponsors, they've been giving us
> > space/bandwidth to do stuff that would benefit Fedora Project
> > directly.
> > * Freenode has had a lot of DDOS attacks recently, putting a sponsor
> > under the potential for such strain is silly.
> >
> > I'd also say that the Board should have some say on this.
> >
>
>  I think the good citizen thing to do for freenode would be to host a
>  server.  We do use them extensively, giving back is the right thing to do.
>  But the above points do give me serious pause and are good points.  What
>  do other think?
>
>         -Mike 
So I think it would be good for us to support them, but not sure if
giving them a server is the only thing (or even the best thing) we can
do for them. Could we for instance see if CommArch would be interested
in supporting them financially? The negative points are pretty
weighty.

David

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:05 PM, David Nalley <david(a)gnsa.us&gt; wrote:
>  On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:58 PM, Mike McGrath
> <mmcgrath(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:
> > On Thu, 18 Mar 2010, Nigel Jones wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:39 AM, Nick Bebout <nick(a)bebout.net&gt; wrote:
> >> > What is everyone's thoughts about us sponsoring a Freenode server?
>  Their
> >> > general requirements are noted on http://freenode.net/hosting_ircd.shtml
> >> > and I've discussed them with mmcgrath and he has said they seem doable,
> >> > probably on telia1 or osuosl1.  Basically we'd be providing them a xen,
> >> > guest with about 1.5 or 2 GB ram, client servers should expect to sustain
> >> > around 1Mbps of traffic, with much higher peaks. Total usage for client
> >> > servers is usually around 320 gigabytes per month, while hidden hubs are
> >> > generally much lower overall.
> >> >
> >> > We'd be giving them at least a user account on it, they prefer sudo if
> >> > possible.  They handle the day-to-day administering of the ircd, either
> >> > scp'ing new binaries or compiling the ircd on the server itself, and
> >> > copying new config files to there.
> >> >
> >> > I've talked to their sponsor liaison and they seem to be interested.
>  Mike
> >> > and I wanted to discuss it on here before I send the actual
> "proposal"
> >> > email.
> >> >
> >> > I think it would be a good idea, especially since we use them so much for
> >> > our IRC channels, it'd be nice to contribute a server back to the
> network.
> >> Sorry but I'd put a -1 on this.
> >>
> >> There was a discussion/proposal (via Trac) from mdomsch there and I
> >> know I put some reasons down.  Heres a few though:
> >>
> >> * Freenode already have an osuosl server iirc
> >> * Have we discussed this w/ our sponsors, they've been giving us
> >> space/bandwidth to do stuff that would benefit Fedora Project
> >> directly.
> >> * Freenode has had a lot of DDOS attacks recently, putting a sponsor
> >> under the potential for such strain is silly.
> >>
> >> I'd also say that the Board should have some say on this.
> >>
> >
> > I think the good citizen thing to do for freenode would be to host a
> > server.  We do use them extensively, giving back is the right thing to do.
> > But the above points do give me serious pause and are good points.  What
> > do other think?
> >
> >        -Mike
>
>  So I think it would be good for us to support them, but not sure if
>  giving them a server is the only thing (or even the best thing) we can
>  do for them. Could we for instance see if CommArch would be interested
>  in supporting them financially? The negative points are pretty
>  weighty.
>  
I wonder if we could do a fund-raiser for them. While FreeNode is no
way an efnet.. a xen root-escape would not be something I would put
past some of its denizens. The other issues listed are also a bit of a
deal. I wonder if we have enough spare hardware (as in old not getting
renewed for support) to set them up a server somewhere with spares to
fix up over time.


-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.

Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp. Or what's a heaven for?
-- Robert Browning

[Ricky Zhou]

On 2010-03-17 03:58:42 PM, Mike McGrath wrote:
>  I think the good citizen thing to do for freenode would be to host a
>  server.  We do use them extensively, giving back is the right thing to do.
>  But the above points do give me serious pause and are good points.  What
>  do other think? 
I'd be -1 to this as well.  The machine would pretty much be an

exception to how everything else is managed, and like with the pastebin, 
spam and abuse are something I'd rather not have to deal with.

Nigel's point about sponsors intending for their donations to benefit 
Fedora is seems pretty big as well - it seems like they could be 
donating their servers directly instead (and some seem to do so 
already).

Thanks,
Ricky

[Jeffrey Ollie]

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Nick Bebout <nick(a)bebout.net&gt; wrote:
>  What is everyone's thoughts about us sponsoring a Freenode
> server? 
Other than the usual reasons for not running an IRC server, the main
thing that would bother me would be that the IRC server software
wouldn't be managed by installing RPM packages since it seems that
they compile & install the code directly.  Perhaps we could help
Freenode get their new IRC daemon packaged and get a number of the
Freenode admins set up as packagers?  That way when they needed to
update the server code they could build a new package and pull the
packages out of Koji if they needed to deploy the code quickly.

-- 
Jeff Ollie

[Ian Weller]

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 03:59:12PM -0500, Jeffrey Ollie wrote:
>  Other than the usual reasons for not running an IRC server, the main
>  thing that would bother me would be that the IRC server software
>  wouldn't be managed by installing RPM packages since it seems that
>  they compile & install the code directly.  Perhaps we could help
>  Freenode get their new IRC daemon packaged and get a number of the
>  Freenode admins set up as packagers?  That way when they needed to
>  update the server code they could build a new package and pull the
>  packages out of Koji if they needed to deploy the code quickly. 
I highly doubt Freenode has the staff time to put towards this. From
what I can tell, it just doesn't fit the way they push out code changes.
Either we'd have to make an exception of our RPM-only policies for the
donated server or we wouldn't be able to host a mirror at all.

I kind of assumed that we'd make an exception if we'd be giving them
root or an account not tied to FAS, after all.

-- 
Ian Weller <ian(a)ianweller.org&gt;
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments

[Matt Domsch]

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 03:39:10PM -0500, Nick Bebout wrote:
>  I think it would be a good idea, especially since we use them so much
> for
>  our IRC channels, it'd be nice to contribute a server back to the network. 
thanks Nick for looking into this again.  Indeed, part of the reason I
want to help is that so much of Fedora's personal interaction, and
Infra critical communication, happens on FreeNode.  I don't know that
providing an IRC server is the best way to help them out, but it seems
like it could help.

I agree the DDOSs and spamfloods have been a problem.  There's no way
to avoid such malicious DDOSs except "not to play" - not running a
service at all.  But that's kind of self-defeating too.  And I don't
like having our communication channels be dependent on a third party
that we have no real influence with.

I hadn't realized OSUOSL already had a node.  That definitely would
reduce my interest in hosting one there.

Given that our hosting is really via others (Red Hat, Telia, ...),
maybe it's more appropriate to suggest that _they_ establish a
relationship with FreeNode directly and host a node, rather than us
doing it.  We could help broker relationships if they don't already
exist, and point out how FreeNode benefits us, so they see an addition
to FreeNode as a continuation of their support of Fedora.


--
Matt Domsch
Technology Strategist, Dell Office of the CTO
linux.dell.com & www.dell.com/linux

[Ripunjay Bararia]

On 18-03-2010 02:09, Nick Bebout wrote:
>  What is everyone's thoughts about us sponsoring a Freenode
> server?  Their
>  general requirements are noted on http://freenode.net/hosting_ircd.shtml
>  and I've discussed them with mmcgrath and he has said they seem doable,
>  probably on telia1 or osuosl1.  Basically we'd be providing them a xen
>  guest with about 1.5 or 2 GB ram, client servers should expect to sustain
>  around 1Mbps of traffic, with much higher peaks. Total usage for client
>  servers is usually around 320 gigabytes per month, while hidden hubs are
>  generally much lower overall.
>
>  We'd be giving them at least a user account on it, they prefer sudo if
>  possible.  They handle the day-to-day administering of the ircd, either
>  scp'ing new binaries or compiling the ircd on the server itself, and
>  copying new config files to there.
>
>  I've talked to their sponsor liaison and they seem to be interested.  Mike
>  and I wanted to discuss it on here before I send the actual "proposal"
>  email.
>
>  I think it would be a good idea, especially since we use them so much for
>  our IRC channels, it'd be nice to contribute a server back to the network.
>
>  Nick
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  infrastructure mailing list
>  infrastructure(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure
>      
Hi All,

We've applied to be a host about 20days ago, still awaiting updates
from the FreeNode staff.

We hope to be able to host a Freenode server soon.

regards
Ripunjay Bararia
Honesty Net Solutions (I) Pvt Ltd
Mumbai, INDIA.